Author Topic: KBD 5 Degree Case - iGK61 PCB  (Read 1515 times)

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Offline WheresTheSNES

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KBD 5 Degree Case - iGK61 PCB
« on: Sat, 11 August 2018, 13:05:47 »
Trying to see if I can combine the iGK61 PCB with KBD 5 Degree Case and DZ60 Type B plate

I understand I need a new plate, because the stock iGK61 plate will not fit in the 5 degree case.

I also understand I need to use a plate-mount stabilizer for the left shift because the PCB doesn't support pcb or screw mount.

I have a dz60 plate from kbd fans, style b w/ 2.25u left shift.

Will this plate hold a plate-mount stabilizer on the left shift?

And moonshot, has anybody actually combined these parts together successfully?

Offline WheresTheSNES

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Re: KBD 5 Degree Case - iGK61 PCB
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 14 August 2018, 12:13:57 »
Well, I've ordered the iGK61 so once it comes in I'll give it a shot and report back.

Online redbanshee

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Re: KBD 5 Degree Case - iGK61 PCB
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 14 August 2018, 12:22:15 »
Trying to see if I can combine the iGK61 PCB with KBD 5 Degree Case and DZ60 Type B plate

I understand I need a new plate, because the stock iGK61 plate will not fit in the 5 degree case.

I also understand I need to use a plate-mount stabilizer for the left shift because the PCB doesn't support pcb or screw mount.

I have a dz60 plate from kbd fans, style b w/ 2.25u left shift.

Will this plate hold a plate-mount stabilizer on the left shift?

And moonshot, has anybody actually combined these parts together successfully?

Post some product links or something so we can take a look

Offline WheresTheSNES

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Re: KBD 5 Degree Case - iGK61 PCB
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 14 August 2018, 15:14:06 »
This is the plate I have.  Brass, Layout B.  It should support standard Ansi 61 key layout.  Question is if the left shift will take a plate mounted stabilizer.  Based on the rest of the info I've looked up on other posts, everything else will likely fit. 

https://kbdfans.cn/products/dz60-cnc-aluminum-plate?variant=2208864567309

This is the iGK61 kit w/ pcb, plate, plate mounted stabs, and plastic case. 

http://www.epathbuy.com/product/igk61-diy-custom-kit-abs-plastic-case-mx-switches-with-keycaps-kit-5/

pixelpusher talks about the board and swapping plates at length in this post but never gets to the specific compatibility of these parts

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92252.0

This is the kbd 5 degree aluminum case

https://kbdfans.cn/products/pre-orderkbdfans-5-60-case


Online redbanshee

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Re: KBD 5 Degree Case - iGK61 PCB
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 14 August 2018, 15:34:04 »
This is the plate I have.  Brass, Layout B.  It should support standard Ansi 61 key layout.  Question is if the left shift will take a plate mounted stabilizer.  Based on the rest of the info I've looked up on other posts, everything else will likely fit. 

https://kbdfans.cn/products/dz60-cnc-aluminum-plate?variant=2208864567309

This is the iGK61 kit w/ pcb, plate, plate mounted stabs, and plastic case. 

http://www.epathbuy.com/product/igk61-diy-custom-kit-abs-plastic-case-mx-switches-with-keycaps-kit-5/

pixelpusher talks about the board and swapping plates at length in this post but never gets to the specific compatibility of these parts

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92252.0

This is the kbd 5 degree aluminum case

https://kbdfans.cn/products/pre-orderkbdfans-5-60-case



Trying to see if I can combine the iGK61 PCB with KBD 5 Degree Case and DZ60 Type B plate

I understand I need a new plate, because the stock iGK61 plate will not fit in the 5 degree case.

I also understand I need to use a plate-mount stabilizer for the left shift because the PCB doesn't support pcb or screw mount.

I have a dz60 plate from kbd fans, style b w/ 2.25u left shift.

Will this plate hold a plate-mount stabilizer on the left shift?

After looking at the product pages,

DZ60 plate has cutouts for PCB mount stabs only, so no it will not hold the plate mount stabs unfortunately




Offline WheresTheSNES

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Re: KBD 5 Degree Case - iGK61 PCB
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 14 August 2018, 16:58:03 »
Thanks for the help.  I've never used plate mount stabilizers before so I'm not sure what characteristic shape to look for on the plate.

Offline WheresTheSNES

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Re: KBD 5 Degree Case - iGK61 PCB
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 17 August 2018, 09:43:14 »
Sadly we may never find out because 1upkeyboards.com just released a 60% Hot Swap PCB and I obviously cancelled the iGK61 order. 

Online redbanshee

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Re: KBD 5 Degree Case - iGK61 PCB
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 17 August 2018, 10:32:55 »
Sadly we may never find out because 1upkeyboards.com just released a 60% Hot Swap PCB and I obviously cancelled the iGK61 order.

probably a good call! The iGK61 seems like it has some gamebreaking issues.

Offline D4PP3R

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Re: KBD 5 Degree Case - iGK61 PCB
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 18 August 2018, 06:58:37 »
Sadly we may never find out because 1upkeyboards.com just released a 60% Hot Swap PCB and I obviously cancelled the iGK61 order.

From what I've heard, the 5degree cases are problematic for kailh hotswap boards in general. Please report back when you get into it, I wanna know what impact not having that center screw has on stability. 

Offline WheresTheSNES

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Re: KBD 5 Degree Case - iGK61 PCB
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 18 August 2018, 12:09:15 »
That sucks.  I'll do my best to jam them together and take pictures.

Offline WheresTheSNES

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1upkeyboards 60% HSE Re: KBD 5 Degree Case - iGK61 PCB
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 21 August 2018, 06:28:42 »
Well, you can't say that's not a keyboard!

Updated:  I have some more work to do.  I thought maybe the center post was hitting the PCB in a way that might hurt it and also causing some teetering.  Need to figure out exactly where the PCB is hitting the post, might have to mod/sand down the center post or something.

The new hot swap board from 1upkeyboards is awesome.  Put the thing together in maybe an hour, everything worked perfectly (on the board).  Used a DZ60 brass plate I had leftover from another failed project.  (The DZ60 brass plate had production issues where you couldn't split the shifts/backspaces without modding the switches or filing the plate, but it works fine for a standard ansi layout)

Unfortunately, it did not play super well with the 5 degree case.  When I first put the plate/pcb in the case it appeared to be fine, but then the keycaps were too close to the left edge.  I tried shifting it to the right and was able to, but it felt like I was maneuvering the center standoff around PCB elements (hot swap sockets, diodes, can't say exactly which thing it was getting stuck on).  Then when I had it all centered i could feel it teeter when i pressed down on the bottom left of the keyboard and at that point it became clear to me that this probably wasn't a good idea.  So when I first put it in the plate felt stable like the center standoff was hitting a benign area of the PCB, but when i centered it, it became unstable. 
« Last Edit: Tue, 21 August 2018, 12:01:09 by WheresTheSNES »

Offline D4PP3R

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Re: 1upkeyboards 60% HSE Re: KBD 5 Degree Case - iGK61 PCB
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 22 August 2018, 19:27:13 »
Well, you can't say that's not a keyboard!

Updated:  I have some more work to do.  I thought maybe the center post was hitting the PCB in a way that might hurt it and also causing some teetering.  Need to figure out exactly where the PCB is hitting the post, might have to mod/sand down the center post or something.

The new hot swap board from 1upkeyboards is awesome.  Put the thing together in maybe an hour, everything worked perfectly (on the board).  Used a DZ60 brass plate I had leftover from another failed project.  (The DZ60 brass plate had production issues where you couldn't split the shifts/backspaces without modding the switches or filing the plate, but it works fine for a standard ansi layout)

Unfortunately, it did not play super well with the 5 degree case.  When I first put the plate/pcb in the case it appeared to be fine, but then the keycaps were too close to the left edge.  I tried shifting it to the right and was able to, but it felt like I was maneuvering the center standoff around PCB elements (hot swap sockets, diodes, can't say exactly which thing it was getting stuck on).  Then when I had it all centered i could feel it teeter when i pressed down on the bottom left of the keyboard and at that point it became clear to me that this probably wasn't a good idea.  So when I first put it in the plate felt stable like the center standoff was hitting a benign area of the PCB, but when i centered it, it became unstable.

Thanks for the feedback. It'll probably be advisable to go for some cheaper plastic cases in the future for hotswap PCBs so that it's easier to sand down if it becomes an issue. Do you, by chance have any more cases you are willing to test the PCB on? There isn't much information on which ones end up being the most compatible with the increased surface area created by the swap sockets. I was under the impression that anything without raised stabilizing ledges like you see on the inside of alot of plastic cases would do fine, but the 5 degree doesn't have those and now I'm confused. I'm gunna contact 1up cuz I'm sure they would know more.

Offline WheresTheSNES

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Re: 1upkeyboards 60% HSE Re: KBD 5 Degree Case - iGK61 PCB
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 22 August 2018, 20:09:49 »
Well, you can't say that's not a keyboard!

Updated:  I have some more work to do.  I thought maybe the center post was hitting the PCB in a way that might hurt it and also causing some teetering.  Need to figure out exactly where the PCB is hitting the post, might have to mod/sand down the center post or something.

The new hot swap board from 1upkeyboards is awesome.  Put the thing together in maybe an hour, everything worked perfectly (on the board).  Used a DZ60 brass plate I had leftover from another failed project.  (The DZ60 brass plate had production issues where you couldn't split the shifts/backspaces without modding the switches or filing the plate, but it works fine for a standard ansi layout)

Unfortunately, it did not play super well with the 5 degree case.  When I first put the plate/pcb in the case it appeared to be fine, but then the keycaps were too close to the left edge.  I tried shifting it to the right and was able to, but it felt like I was maneuvering the center standoff around PCB elements (hot swap sockets, diodes, can't say exactly which thing it was getting stuck on).  Then when I had it all centered i could feel it teeter when i pressed down on the bottom left of the keyboard and at that point it became clear to me that this probably wasn't a good idea.  So when I first put it in the plate felt stable like the center standoff was hitting a benign area of the PCB, but when i centered it, it became unstable.

Thanks for the feedback. It'll probably be advisable to go for some cheaper plastic cases in the future for hotswap PCBs so that it's easier to sand down if it becomes an issue. Do you, by chance have any more cases you are willing to test the PCB on? There isn't much information on which ones end up being the most compatible with the increased surface area created by the swap sockets. I was under the impression that anything without raised stabilizing ledges like you see on the inside of alot of plastic cases would do fine, but the 5 degree doesn't have those and now I'm confused. I'm gunna contact 1up cuz I'm sure they would know more.

d4pper I did some more "keyboard science" with the board and I will post pictures/full response soon.  Long story short there is plenty of space in the bottom of the case for the hot-swap sockets, they aren't a problem.  I can situate the PCB in the case and the center post just lands on a benign area of the board I think between G and H keys.  However, in this sweet-spot the keycaps are too close to the left edge of the case.  When I shift the pcb to the right it runs up against a diode(maybe a resistor) I think on the G key.  So...if 1upkeyboards switched the diode/resistor placement around for that key kind of like they did with the esc key, I think you would just need to slap some electrical tape on the center post and then it would be fine.  As it stands I would have to somehow remove that center stand-off I think.

I don't have any other cases around unfortunately or I'd test them out.  Now I'm either going to try and mod the kbd case or sell and try another case. 

Offline WheresTheSNES

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Re: KBD 5 Degree Case - iGK61 PCB
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 23 August 2018, 15:04:13 »
         So after messing with the KBD 5 Degree Case and the 1upkeyboards HSE PCB a bit more, what I found is that when I center the PCB in the KBD 5 degree case, the center post is hitting that Diode 34 on the G key.  If I shift the PCB to the left just a little bit, it sits in the case nicely and the post is hitting the bare spot between keys G and H.  However, this is just slightly off center, as my keycaps on the left side are just barely rubbing up against the case (see tilda key photo) and there is a larger gap on the keycaps on the right side (see backspace key photo)
         The way I determined exactly where the center post was hitting the PCB is I overlaid the DZ60 PCB over the 1upHSE PCB and saw that diode through the screw hole, then when I placed the 1upHSE PCB in the case and maneuvered it I could tell that it was hitting that (plate was off balance/not settled in)
         Unfortunately I don't have any other 60% cases to try it out with so my experiment here may not be absolute.  One possible solution on the manufacturing end would be to put the Diode and Resistor for the G key on the opposite side kind of like they did with the Esc key.  Seems like that would provide 100% compatibility with standard 60% cases that are deep enough to accommodate the Kailh Hot-Swap Sockets.
         Interested to see feedback from others if their 60% cases play well with this PCB.  It could just be that KBD 5 Degree is slightly non standard or the standoff is too wide.  At this point, not sure if I'll try another case or Mod this one.  Also 1upkeyboards apparently has some more new products coming out so maybe one will be a sweet case.  Holding off for now. 
         By the way, I couldn't cancel my iGK61 so that is still coming in the mail.  When that shows up I may try placing that PCB in this case as well.

Offline D4PP3R

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Re: KBD 5 Degree Case - iGK61 PCB
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 23 August 2018, 16:45:56 »
         So after messing with the KBD 5 Degree Case and the 1upkeyboards HSE PCB a bit more, what I found is that when I center the PCB in the KBD 5 degree case, the center post is hitting that Diode 34 on the G key.  If I shift the PCB to the left just a little bit, it sits in the case nicely and the post is hitting the bare spot between keys G and H.  However, this is just slightly off center, as my keycaps on the left side are just barely rubbing up against the case (see tilda key photo) and there is a larger gap on the keycaps on the right side (see backspace key photo)
         The way I determined exactly where the center post was hitting the PCB is I overlaid the DZ60 PCB over the 1upHSE PCB and saw that diode through the screw hole, then when I placed the 1upHSE PCB in the case and maneuvered it I could tell that it was hitting that (plate was off balance/not settled in)
         Unfortunately I don't have any other 60% cases to try it out with so my experiment here may not be absolute.  One possible solution on the manufacturing end would be to put the Diode and Resistor for the G key on the opposite side kind of like they did with the Esc key.  Seems like that would provide 100% compatibility with standard 60% cases that are deep enough to accommodate the Kailh Hot-Swap Sockets.
         Interested to see feedback from others if their 60% cases play well with this PCB.  It could just be that KBD 5 Degree is slightly non standard or the standoff is too wide.  At this point, not sure if I'll try another case or Mod this one.  Also 1upkeyboards apparently has some more new products coming out so maybe one will be a sweet case.  Holding off for now. 
         By the way, I couldn't cancel my iGK61 so that is still coming in the mail.  When that shows up I may try placing that PCB in this case as well.

Great work on this post man, it's really helpful. I make sure to link this thread to 1up when I contact them. On another note, make sure that you don't use the iGK61 plate with the PCB or you won't be able to have PCB mounted stabs, and I believe their plate also has problematic size and standoff screw holes that make using it with the 5 degree case impossible(although I could be mistaken about this).

Offline D4PP3R

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Re: KBD 5 Degree Case - iGK61 PCB
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 25 August 2018, 15:33:32 »
I contacted pete, he says to hit the center post with a hammer because aluminum is a soft metal... He also said that they intend to make revisions in the future! Meanwhile, KBDfans recently came out with a hotswap PCB with none of these issues, although the south LEDs aren't RBG (because we need RGB switch testers kappa).

Offline WheresTheSNES

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Re: KBD 5 Degree Case - iGK61 PCB
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 26 August 2018, 07:54:15 »
I contacted pete, he says to hit the center post with a hammer because aluminum is a soft metal... He also said that they intend to make revisions in the future! Meanwhile, KBDfans recently came out with a hotswap PCB with none of these issues, although the south LEDs aren't RBG (because we need RGB switch testers kappa).

Oh ok, thanks.  Yeah the HHKB hot swap kit looks pretty cool.  I am going to have to spend some time and prioritize what I actually want in my 60% hot swap before buying any more components though.  This hobby sure is frustrating.  At least I've got like, five other boards to type on in the mean-time though lol.  Maybe that iGK61 as a test board will be enough.  Basically I was trying to test out switches, and also see if I like the ANSI 60% layout. 

Offline WheresTheSNES

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Re: KBD 5 Degree Case - iGK61 PCB
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 26 August 2018, 22:15:10 »
I contacted pete, he says to hit the center post with a hammer because aluminum is a soft metal... He also said that they intend to make revisions in the future! Meanwhile, KBDfans recently came out with a hotswap PCB with none of these issues, although the south LEDs aren't RBG (because we need RGB switch testers kappa).

By the way, I took a look at that hot swap PCB from KBD Fans.  Seems like it would have the exact same issue in a standard 60% case based on the photos on the website.  Notice the center stand-off hole is right above the H key on the back of the PCB.  Normally this is right dead in between the G and H keys (see GH60 or DZ60).  So I guess it's not just 1upkeyboards. 

However in the description it says it has the same screw-holes as a GH60.  Am I crazy?  What is going on here?  I guess the KBD one is still in design/pre-order. Maybe they fixed that issue from the prototype and haven't posted the updated photos yet?

https://kbdfans.cn/collections/60/products/kbd6x-wkl-hot-swap-60-double-type-c-pcb

Offline D4PP3R

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Re: KBD 5 Degree Case - iGK61 PCB
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 27 August 2018, 17:47:56 »
I contacted pete, he says to hit the center post with a hammer because aluminum is a soft metal... He also said that they intend to make revisions in the future! Meanwhile, KBDfans recently came out with a hotswap PCB with none of these issues, although the south LEDs aren't RBG (because we need RGB switch testers kappa).

By the way, I took a look at that hot swap PCB from KBD Fans.  Seems like it would have the exact same issue in a standard 60% case based on the photos on the website.  Notice the center stand-off hole is right above the H key on the back of the PCB.  Normally this is right dead in between the G and H keys (see GH60 or DZ60).  So I guess it's not just 1upkeyboards. 

However in the description it says it has the same screw-holes as a GH60.  Am I crazy?  What is going on here?  I guess the KBD one is still in design/pre-order. Maybe they fixed that issue from the prototype and haven't posted the updated photos yet?

https://kbdfans.cn/collections/60/products/kbd6x-wkl-hot-swap-60-double-type-c-pcb

Yeah, I noticed that shortly after replying to you and was confused. Haven't been able to find anyone that has done a review on any of the revisions. Keep in mind that the PCB you see in those pictures is the first version, and that the new revision is supposed to fix may of its issues. Will continue to look out for it. I love how the iGk61 makers were able to pull off a workable version but these two giants can't. 

Offline WheresTheSNES

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Re: KBD 5 Degree Case - iGK61 PCB
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 28 August 2018, 10:59:45 »
I contacted pete, he says to hit the center post with a hammer because aluminum is a soft metal... He also said that they intend to make revisions in the future! Meanwhile, KBDfans recently came out with a hotswap PCB with none of these issues, although the south LEDs aren't RBG (because we need RGB switch testers kappa).

By the way, I took a look at that hot swap PCB from KBD Fans.  Seems like it would have the exact same issue in a standard 60% case based on the photos on the website.  Notice the center stand-off hole is right above the H key on the back of the PCB.  Normally this is right dead in between the G and H keys (see GH60 or DZ60).  So I guess it's not just 1upkeyboards. 

However in the description it says it has the same screw-holes as a GH60.  Am I crazy?  What is going on here?  I guess the KBD one is still in design/pre-order. Maybe they fixed that issue from the prototype and haven't posted the updated photos yet?

https://kbdfans.cn/collections/60/products/kbd6x-wkl-hot-swap-60-double-type-c-pcb

Yeah, I noticed that shortly after replying to you and was confused. Haven't been able to find anyone that has done a review on any of the revisions. Keep in mind that the PCB you see in those pictures is the first version, and that the new revision is supposed to fix may of its issues. Will continue to look out for it. I love how the iGk61 makers were able to pull off a workable version but these two giants can't. 

Just got my iGK61.  To be fair KBD and 1upkeyboards are only behind iGK61 folks in price.  They both have pcb/case combos that work for their hot swappable boards.  It's just they are not universally compatible, which iGK61 is most definitely not either.

My first impressions of iGK61 are:  Ultimate Switch Tester / #1 Toy Keyboard at a high end switch tester/toy keyboard price.  Programming has major issues for customizing to your liking and these are the cheapest keycaps I've ever seen in my life, ever anywhere.  Then again, they are a $4.50 add to the package so I can't complain.  I was able to program a workable layout for my office, so I'm at my office now being productive AND testing out Kailh Box Blacks.  So that's pretty good for $45 + $13 shipping.