Author Topic: Percentage Based Keyboards.  (Read 5582 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tedfs3

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 51
    • No Mercy Given
Percentage Based Keyboards.
« on: Mon, 17 September 2018, 19:49:45 »
Until a few days ago, I had no idea percentage based keyboards were a thing. 60%, 85% etc...

I use the Numpad daily for data entry and was wondering what people's reasons are for using a percentage based design ?
Is it to save space, make the board more portable, you don't deal with numbers very much ?

Looking for DIY kits out there, not one single 104 or above design that I can see while looking for a DIY custom.

Just curious what the opinions and reasons are for people preferring a percentage based design. Who knows, maybe I'll learn something and convert.

Offline Findecanor

  • Posts: 4611
  • Location: Koriko
Re: Percentage Based Keyboards.
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 17 September 2018, 20:01:27 »
The percentage-nomenclature is something that I believe appeared here in the keyboard enthusiast community and only in the recent decade. I believe it may have come from the number of keys, classic "full-size" keyboards having close to a 100 keys. For instance, the Happy Hacking Keyboard has 60 keys, and is a "60%" keyboard. Some other keyboard models have had their number of keys in the model name.

Smaller keyboards are indeed to save space and to move the mouse (on the right for right.handed users) closer to the centre which is considered more ergonomic.

To me it appears that users either use the numpad a lot or they never use the numpad at all and therefore don't need it .. and you can sometimes see pointless stupid forum-wars between users on "either side". :rolleyes:
Users on this forum tend to be more level-headed about that though and more accepting of different formats.

Personally, I think the best layout would be full-size but with the numeric keypad on the left side of the alphanumeric section. That way you could have best of both worlds, and also map some of those numeric keys to special functions in games or in various other types of software that you could press while using a mouse in the right hand.
« Last Edit: Mon, 17 September 2018, 20:06:49 by Findecanor »
Man must shape his tools lest they shape him
-- Arthur Miller

Offline tedfs3

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 51
    • No Mercy Given
Re: Percentage Based Keyboards.
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 17 September 2018, 20:20:53 »
The percentage-nomenclature is something that I believe appeared here in the keyboard enthusiast community and only in the recent decade. I believe it may have come from the number of keys, classic "full-size" keyboards having close to a 100 keys. For instance, the Happy Hacking Keyboard has 60 keys, and is a "60%" keyboard. Some other keyboard models have had their number of keys in the model name.

Smaller keyboards are indeed to save space and to move the mouse (on the right for right.handed users) closer to the centre which is considered more ergonomic.

To me it appears that users either use the numpad a lot or they never use the numpad at all and therefore don't need it .. and you can sometimes see pointless stupid forum-wars between users on "either side". :rolleyes:
Users on this forum tend to be more level-headed about that though and more accepting of different formats.

Personally, I think the best layout would be full-size but with the numeric keypad on the left side of the alphanumeric section. That way you could have best of both worlds, and also map some of those numeric keys to special functions in games or in various other types of software that you could press while using a mouse in the right hand.

Good call on the numpad placement, I like that idea. While I don't game at all very much any more, the idea of being able to use the mouse and the numpad at the same time is a plus.
I'm not sure I'd like anything smaller than say a Logitech G413 but do understand the space and ergonomics concerns of other users.

My initial search for a Cryillic keyboard led me to all of these terms and products I had no idea existed. Then found out you could make your own but got stuck on not finding anything that was a full size. Just had me wondering what all the fuss was about. I did see a post here were someone put the numpad on the left. Might need to check that out again.

Offline ErgoMacros

  • Posts: 309
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: Percentage Based Keyboards.
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 17 September 2018, 21:21:27 »
Yes, num pads on the left are often referred to as "Southpaw," if you care to search the forums for that.
There are a few "full-size" DIY boards out there, at least from time to time. Examples include:
    Almost full size, all but the Nav cluster
      https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97247.0;topicseen

   Num pad on right + Arrow keys. At "interest check" stage, may become a DIY
      https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96158.0;topicseen

   Another similar layout
      https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97152.0;topicseen

   And I'm really hoping the new rev of the GH-122 becomes real someday (but the creator has been off-line for a while.)
      https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88063.0;topicseen

All the best, and welcome.
Today's quote: '...“but then the customer successfully broke that.”

Offline tedfs3

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 51
    • No Mercy Given
Re: Percentage Based Keyboards.
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 17 September 2018, 21:33:55 »
Yes, num pads on the left are often referred to as "Southpaw," if you care to search the forums for that.
There are a few "full-size" DIY boards out there, at least from time to time. Examples include:
    Almost full size, all but the Nav cluster
      https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97247.0;topicseen

   Num pad on right + Arrow keys. At "interest check" stage, may become a DIY
      https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96158.0;topicseen

   Another similar layout
      https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97152.0;topicseen

   And I'm really hoping the new rev of the GH-122 becomes real someday (but the creator has been off-line for a while.)
      https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88063.0;topicseen

All the best, and welcome.

Thank you so much for those links ! I'm still getting used to the board software and how to focus attention to the important aspects of what I'm looking for when reading searches. Had to switch to the Austere theme to make things a bit easier to see and focus on. Looks like I'm in the right place to learn and see new ideas.

That 75% looks interesting but I'm used to having the nav keys for working in 3D. The 1800 seems to be a sweet spot and that GH-122 I really like. I'll need to subscribe to that thread.

Thank you again !

Offline vvp

  • Posts: 816
Re: Percentage Based Keyboards.
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 20 November 2018, 01:52:51 »
I'm used to having the nav keys for working in 3D.
Inverted T nav clusters is overrated. It is a matter of only few days to relearn to a different layout. Especially if it is much better. You will not want to return to the standard nav cluster after few weeks.
E.g. people who use ergodox and touch type often put nav cluster on the home row (asdf or jkl;) into a layer. It is quicker that way. You just press a layer switch key with your thumb and have your fingers immediately positioned over all four navigation keys.
This approach is a harder with standard row staggered designs without split space. The big-ass space bars are one of the worst ideas in common keyboard layout. Just at the place where your thumbs are most precise (because they are naturally positioned there), you have one big key wasting that precious space. There should be many smaller keys. Only one of them space and the rest as modifiers: standard (Ctrl,Alt,Shift, ...) or special (layer shifts).

Offline Findecanor

  • Posts: 4611
  • Location: Koriko
Re: Percentage Based Keyboards.
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 20 November 2018, 06:38:15 »
Inverted T nav clusters is overrated.
When people say "nav cluster", then often mean the six keys above the four arrow keys, or more specifically the four keys: Home, End, Page Up and Page Down.

For me who does a lot of text editing in programs with the standard Mac/Windows shortcuts, I do use those four a whole lot — and together with modifiers (Shift+Ctrl or Shift+Alt), ­so I would really much like to have those and the cursor keys as their own keys.

I think the reason why the inverted-T cursor layout is such a good shape is because the middle finger is longer, it's natural resting position is in-between the ↑ and ↓ keys,  each thus being just as far away.
If you would apply that mapping onto the home row (←↓→) and one key above (↑), and your keyboard is column-staggered, then the ↑ and ↓ keys are shifted upwards and you would lose that property.
« Last Edit: Tue, 20 November 2018, 06:41:05 by Findecanor »
Man must shape his tools lest they shape him
-- Arthur Miller