Author Topic: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds  (Read 7577 times)

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Offline vosechu

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[IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« on: Sun, 27 January 2019, 16:38:52 »
This is an interest check for this set:
216424-0

Sign up here: https://forms.gle/L3sh7qiMg33Z3h9K6

Background Story

My wife and I joke that she's a fish and I'm a bird; and when I think wistfully of the freedom of flight, I think about that beautiful blue of a sunny day and those fluffy clouds. This is the set that speaks to me.

For years I have been trying to cobble this set together from other sets. I have always loved sets like SA Cyan and Pulse, but Maxkeys doesn't do Ortho layouts and Pulse has black text on the keys and no white modifiers. And there might be a combination, but it's probably too expensive and let's be honest, new GBs are fun!

Recently, I acquired a Cyanara Shishi and I realized that I needed to make this happen. So I sent a message to Melissa at SP and she thought that my set idea was not just doable, but doable in a shortish timeframe.

This spurred me on to create the IC:


5 months ago I started a project to identify common ortho layouts https://old.reddit.com/r/keycapdesigners/comments/97kncp/common_ortho_layouts/, so this has been on my mind for a long time. This is a fairly minimal layout, but I believe it covers almost every sub-60% ortho/ergo board that I could find. Ergonomics is really important to me, but it must come with beauty as well or people will not use it.

KLE layout in hand, I used CQ_cumbers' awesome kle-render and finally kbrenders.com to get a better picture of what I was working towards.

Compatibility

Set includes compatibility for:

  • Planck/Preonic/Helix/Let's Split/Iris/*
  • Atreus/Atreus62/Laptreus
  • Many others

But to keep costs low and timelines short, the set does not include compatibility for:
  • Ergodoxen
  • Zen/Sol/Hotdox/*
  • However, since we're using standard SP colors, blanks might not be too hard to get. Let me know if it would change your order!

If you want to order blanks, I'll keep these updated: the currently planned colors are WFK (white) and BBQ (teal blue).

Visibility

WCAG contrast visibility: 2.32.

I really wanted to get to 3.0, but I couldn't find a standard SP blue that felt right that satisfied that contrast. My family tends to go blind later in life, so this is something I care deeply about.

Let me know if this is critical to you and I'll try to accommodate!

Pricing

I'm in discussion about prices right now. I'm going to try to keep it inexpensive!

Shipping

Currently I am only planning on doing CONUS shipping via USPS flat rate boxes. Generally this will be between $7-15. This amount will be in addition to the cost of the keys.

Next steps

  • 1/27 - I plan to collect interest and make amendments for about 1 month (assuming there aren't huge changes that need doing)
  • 2/7(ish) - I'll update this post with color chips from SP to make sure people know exactly what to expect.
  • 2/9-2/24 - I will be traveling, but I'll have friends looking after this thread and adjusting if needed.
  • 3/14-3/31 - Second IC
  • 4/15ish - I'll post the GB and run it for 2 weeks. Currently this is a small GB, so I'm not worried about needing a logistics vendor, but if there's huge interest I'll reach out to Novelkeys, TKC, or one of the many, many other excellent vendors out there that do this for a living!
  • 4/29 - All payments must be in by this point.
  • 4/30 - I'll submit the order to SP and start production. Last quote was about 12 weeks, but I'm a stickler about color so I want to see this before the whole job is done even if it takes a bit longer.
  • TBD - Delivery to me/vendor/proxies for distribution
  • TBD - Delivered to you!
  • TBD+1month - Extras to cover returns will be put up for sale or raffled
« Last Edit: Sun, 31 March 2019, 23:50:15 by vosechu »

Offline maartenwut

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 27 January 2019, 16:43:24 »
Looks great, I like it! No international shipping or proxies?

Offline vosechu

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 27 January 2019, 16:56:08 »
Looks great, I like it! No international shipping or proxies?

No proxies yet. I didn't think this would have the kind of wide-spread interest, but let me know if you think it's something I should be supporting! My honest hope is to make MOQ. I believe that the loss between IC and people plonking money down is so great that it's going to take a lot of votes for me to believe that I wouldn't just be sending 2 sets to the uk or something. But I've been wrong so many times in this life and I would be ecstatic to be wrong about this! :)

Who have you worked with in the past for EU proxies? I could reach out to them now and inquire.

Offline AaronR

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 27 January 2019, 16:58:31 »
I assume that this will be Otho boards only. Is Adding support for 60% boards possible?

Offline MinaDarsh

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 27 January 2019, 16:58:42 »
Looks great, I like it! No international shipping or proxies?

I second this, also for the Netherlands, been on the look out for an adorable set and this is it, really love it.

(Did fill out a form, where I ask this too in the 'anything I should know' section.)

Edit: Was still typing as you answered, seen it, consider this an extra international interest in the set.
« Last Edit: Sun, 27 January 2019, 17:00:53 by MinaDarsh »

Offline maartenwut

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 27 January 2019, 16:59:17 »
Personally I'm a fan of Mechboards.co.uk and MyKeyboard.eu. :thumb:

Offline vosechu

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 27 January 2019, 17:30:21 »
Thank you both! Iíll contact them presently.

Offline VaclavKucera

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 27 January 2019, 17:39:01 »
Awesome compatibility for the price. Sign me up!

Offline vosechu

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 27 January 2019, 17:42:07 »
Awesome compatibility for the price. Sign me up!

Iím so glad! Is there anything in particular that makes it work for you?

I have an atreus, so itís always been a sore spot that I have to get the ergodox kit just for 1.5u blanks!

Also, what are you planning for the right side? I had a heck of a time figuring out what all should fit there. Qmk was helpful, but I still have a super limited sample size. :)

Offline MikeTheTiger

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 27 January 2019, 20:52:58 »
Looks good. Count me in.

Offline kmfmppl

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 28 January 2019, 02:15:17 »
+1 interest for EU proxie  :) would like to put this on a helix.

Offline MinaDarsh

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 28 January 2019, 03:45:03 »
By the way, will the Space bar be convex shaped?

(Doesn't always seem to be the case with this layout.)

Offline vosechu

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 28 January 2019, 09:06:55 »
By the way, will the Space bar be convex shaped?

I asked about that and she said the tooling doesnít exist yet. In this case, unlike novelties, it would cost multiple thousands of dollars to get that. But she did say theyíre hearing a lot of interest in it and are thinking about adding it to their roadmap. Probably prudent for us to not hold our collective breath for now. :)

Offline dailyskeptic

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 02 February 2019, 10:58:37 »
Looks great!

Offline Lucien Midnight

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 02 February 2019, 12:14:40 »
Not buying any more sets ATM since Ice Cap just came back in stock and my wallet hates me. This set looks great though, good luck!

Online Hedgey

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 02 February 2019, 16:51:55 »
I said this on reddit, but I really love the extra layout coverage because it includes the 1.5U or 1.25U for Corne/CRKBD boards or other orthos with slightly larger keys.  Plus it's gonna look great with Glass Green acrylic.
"Resellers don't kill the community, auctioneers kill the community. Look at what happened to Diablo 3"

Offline LovesTha

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 02 February 2019, 19:55:31 »
If a real Aussie proxy can't happen I could do reasonable impersonation

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3010 using Tapatalk


Offline Theswetiyeti

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 19 February 2019, 06:26:45 »
Love the colors of this set. I'm interested in this.  I don't even have an ortholinear keyboard  yet but plan on getting one to try out.  It would be amazing to hit that 50 MOQ so I don't know the likelihood. I will probably join GB to support this. I don't know how SP works but I'm guessing because of the 25 MOQ these are not custem colors, or does SP not work that way?

Offline harlekein

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 19 February 2019, 10:18:03 »
Any chance of Colevrak kit or maybe go full R3?

Offline Tefrem34

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 19 February 2019, 10:26:09 »
It is in the IC link for a Colemak/Dvorak option.

Offline vosechu

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 19 February 2019, 16:48:50 »
Any chance of Colevrak kit or maybe go full R3?

Yep! Iím going to put up a second ic with all r3 once I get back from vacation. /me ducks out again!

Offline vicissitude

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 19 February 2019, 21:01:40 »
Like the color.
Is it the same as gmk cyan?

Offline Puddsy

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 19 February 2019, 21:31:34 »
Like the color.
Is it the same as gmk cyan?

if it's based on the cyanara shishi, then ideally yes
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Offline vosechu

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 20 February 2019, 07:16:07 »
Like the color.
Is it the same as gmk cyan?

if it's based on the cyanara shishi, then ideally yes

Iíll post some photos of the samples that sp sent when Iím back from vacation. The samples arrived basically as I left for the plane. :)

Offline vosechu

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 05 March 2019, 11:03:55 »
Attached are two quick photos to determine match, not color. I didnít take these with a good camera, but we should be able to determine which chips are closest to the artisan since theyíre in the exact same lighting conditions.

What do you all think? Seems like theyíre closest to BBQ/WA or BBQ/WFK. In my lighting at home WA has a very slight pinkish hue, but I canít tell if thatís just my lighting conditions, my eyes, or something else.

Offline mimalik

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 05 March 2019, 11:31:12 »
Love the colors, but any possibility to cover full size kb? Can the kits be expanded to cover typical kb coverage as in any other SP drop?

Offline vosechu

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 05 March 2019, 11:32:23 »
Love the colors, but any possibility to cover full size kb? Can the kits be expanded to cover typical kb coverage as in any other SP drop?

SA cyan is already very available, so I think that already covers you!

Offline mimalik

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 05 March 2019, 11:37:51 »
I am not aware of SA Cyan, plz provide GB or purchase links.

Offline vosechu

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 05 March 2019, 11:39:01 »
I am not aware of SA Cyan, plz provide GB or purchase links.

I believe google will get this; Iím on my phone unfortunately. I think kbdfans has it, but probably others too.

Offline mimalik

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 05 March 2019, 11:46:58 »
Thanks for prompt response. I found the set but its MaxKey produced, not a big fan of them, think they need some time to catch up on quality. This is via SP, so got my attention.

Hopefully you will consider to add the other kits, but if not then I understand as lag time for SP is only getting worse.

Offline vosechu

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 05 March 2019, 12:04:26 »
Gotcha. For what itís worth, I give anyone permission to use these colors to produce a a full-sized set. :)

For me, I think the ortho users are underserved. My intention is to create lots that make ortho kits even more interesting. Things like some of our weird special keys like shift/z or sneaky-esc or space-cadet parens.

Online Hedgey

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 05 March 2019, 21:23:14 »
When does the GB start?  I'm absolutely in as I said above.
"Resellers don't kill the community, auctioneers kill the community. Look at what happened to Diablo 3"

Offline vosechu

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 06 March 2019, 09:09:15 »
Soon! I hurt my shoulder on vacation so itís taking a bit longer. I appreciate the encouragement!

Offline Bhk1004

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 06 March 2019, 09:20:34 »
If I jump on this does this mean I need to source the same shishi?


Online Hedgey

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 06 March 2019, 09:34:33 »
Hopefully you will consider to add the other kits, but if not then I understand as lag time for SP is only getting worse.

I think, personally, this is really disingenuous to come into an IC that's clearly for a subset of users, and ask for a full set compatibility.  I've seen this multiple times over the last month with a few sets and it's just a bad look IMO.
"Resellers don't kill the community, auctioneers kill the community. Look at what happened to Diablo 3"

Offline vosechu

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 06 March 2019, 09:46:27 »
If I jump on this does this mean I need to source the same shishi?

Haha, only if you want to! Mostly itís just inspiration from someone I think has more experience with color mixing than me.

Online daaawooo

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 08 March 2019, 20:16:58 »
+1 interest for EU proxie  :) would like to put this on a helix.
+1 more

By the way, will the Space bar be convex shaped?

I asked about that and she said the tooling doesnít exist yet. In this case, unlike novelties, it would cost multiple thousands of dollars to get that. But she did say theyíre hearing a lot of interest in it and are thinking about adding it to their roadmap. Probably prudent for us to not hold our collective breath for now. :)
hoping SP/PMK selling those 2U spacebars in many colors later ...
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Offline vosechu

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #37 on: Sun, 17 March 2019, 23:32:29 »
215558-0

IC part 2 sign-up form: https://goo.gl/forms/Z8eUn9Go9t26AVg62

Starting a second IC because I've changed a lot about the set. Please let me know what you think!

I've included a different google form; it has a couple new fields, but no need to fill it out unless you want to give some feedback. I'll use the email addresses from both forms when GB launches.

Change Notes:
Change to uniform R3 profile: I started the kit as sculpted SA, but quickly realized from the comments that a uniform profile was literally the only way to go forward and achieve compatibility.
Extra keys in ergodox kit: Some of the keys are already available in the base kit, so I've marked them as "From Base Kit" in the image.
Added support for ergodox/xd75: Not sure if they're going to be a second set or part of the base kit.
« Last Edit: Mon, 18 March 2019, 10:00:36 by vosechu »

Offline Puddsy

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #38 on: Sun, 17 March 2019, 23:40:44 »
(Attachment Link)

IC part 2 sign-up form: https://goo.gl/forms/Z8eUn9Go9t26AVg62

Starting a second IC because I've changed a lot about the set. Please let me know what you think!

I've included a different google form; it has a couple new fields, but no need to fill it out unless you want to give some feedback. I'll use the email addresses from both forms when GB launches.

Change Notes:
Change to uniform R3 profile: I started the kit as sculpted SA, but quickly realized from the comments that a uniform profile was literally the only way to go forward and achieve compatibility.
Extra keys in ergodox kit: Some of the keys are already available in the base kit, so I've marked them as "From Base Kit" in the image.
Added support for ergodox/xd75: Not sure if they're going to be a second set or part of the base kit.

that is a large kit for a very niche layout, i'd recommend scaling back a bit to help with price breaks
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Offline vosechu

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #39 on: Sun, 17 March 2019, 23:42:41 »
What do you think about 2 kits? I thought maybe the xd75 and ergodox could be part of an extended kit.

Offline Puddsy

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #40 on: Sun, 17 March 2019, 23:46:55 »
What do you think about 2 kits? I thought maybe the xd75 and ergodox could be part of an extended kit.

2 kits is fine, but it's all r3 and you have a bunch of duplicate keys for seemingly no reason

just think about why each key is there and how important that is to you
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Offline vosechu

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #41 on: Sun, 17 March 2019, 23:53:24 »
2 kits is fine, but it's all r3 and you have a bunch of duplicate keys

Iíve spent a lot of time wondering about exactly that. Personally, I have no use for a second alt or ctrl, but I can imagine using the white ones as highlights. But maybe I should move the second modifiers to the xd75 kit since those layouts seem to be the most in need of extra keys.

Were those the duplicates you were thinking about? I count 4 blue duplicates and 6 alternate color duplicates.

Offline Puddsy

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #42 on: Sun, 17 March 2019, 23:58:29 »
2 kits is fine, but it's all r3 and you have a bunch of duplicate keys

Iíve spent a lot of time wondering about exactly that. Personally, I have no use for a second alt or ctrl, but I can imagine using the white ones as highlights. But maybe I should move the second modifiers to the xd75 kit since those layouts seem to be the most in need of extra keys.

Were those the duplicates you were thinking about? I count 4 blue duplicates and 6 alternate color duplicates.

id have to make a full pass at it but maybe

i think we're talking about the same thing but we're not looking at it the same way
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Offline vosechu

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #43 on: Mon, 18 March 2019, 00:01:21 »
2 kits is fine, but it's all r3 and you have a bunch of duplicate keys

Iíve spent a lot of time wondering about exactly that. Personally, I have no use for a second alt or ctrl, but I can imagine using the white ones as highlights. But maybe I should move the second modifiers to the xd75 kit since those layouts seem to be the most in need of extra keys.

Were those the duplicates you were thinking about? I count 4 blue duplicates and 6 alternate color duplicates.

id have to make a full pass at it but maybe

i think we're talking about the same thing but we're not looking at it the same way

Entirely possible! We can talk more tomorrow. :)

Thank you for the feedback!

Online Uryftw

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #44 on: Mon, 18 March 2019, 09:20:06 »
What about ISO? :(

Offline vosechu

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #45 on: Mon, 18 March 2019, 09:23:27 »
What about ISO? :(

Havenít gotten an eu vendor to email me back, so it seems unlikely that many eu folks will be able to participate unfortunately.

But also, as itís my first gb it seems like something I should skip this time. I would very much like to get there though, compatibility is still number 2 on my list of values; my theory is that having a successful run under my belt might help get eu vendors to answer my emails. :)

Offline dr_unconscionable

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 18 March 2019, 13:24:20 »
Is ISO even a relevant concept for an ortho set...? There have been repeated calls for staggered compatibility, which I think you've handled appropriately, and keeping the focus on ortho/split compatibility is key for keeping this a focused GB.


While I find R3 a little less exciting than sculpted SA, I agree that it's way more practical for accommodating everyone's desired layout. (For flat profiles I usually prefer DSA or something less tall, but that would be another fundamental change to this set.)

In any case, I'm following with interest, and if the price is right I'll definitely grab one to help hit MOQ! :)

Offline vosechu

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #47 on: Mon, 18 March 2019, 13:32:13 »
Is ISO even a relevant concept for an ortho set...? There have been repeated calls for staggered compatibility, which I think you've handled appropriately, and keeping the focus on ortho/split compatibility is key for keeping this a focused GB.

Less about the ISO enter and more about the NorDe alphas. But either way, I don't think there's enough interest to make it happen unfortunately. I had hoped for an EU proxy, but that also doesn't seem to be in the cards at this point.

While I find R3 a little less exciting than sculpted SA, I agree that it's way more practical for accommodating everyone's desired layout. (For flat profiles I usually prefer DSA or something less tall, but that would be another fundamental change to this set.)

In any case, I'm following with interest, and if the price is right I'll definitely grab one to help hit MOQ! :)

Glad to hear it!

Online Uryftw

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #48 on: Mon, 18 March 2019, 13:46:20 »
I'm all in for one set. But I need ISO compatibility. Please make it happen  :( :( :(

Offline vosechu

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Re: [IC] SP SA Fluffy Clouds
« Reply #49 on: Sun, 31 March 2019, 23:45:20 »
Today I sent out emails to SP and NovelKeys to start the process of the groupbuy. Hopefully should have some pricing info soonish, but until then, I'll post a couple stats that I thought were interesting:

  • 180 total responses between the two ICs
  • 65% from CONUS, 22% from EU, 11% from Asia, 2% from Elsewhere
  • Ergodox requests were 20-25% each
  • XD75 requests were 20-25% each
  • Colevrak requests were around 30% in the first IC (thus the change to uniform R3)

Since Ergodox and XD75 requests are fairly numerous in this kit, I've asked for pricing if they're split kits vs one combined extended kit.

My working theory is that <25% of IC respondents will actually plonk down money for the kit. My experience in other areas suggests that it'll be closer to 10%, but we'll see. If 10%, we'll be stretching to make MOQ on the main kit. At 25% response, we might be able to get a combined extended kit.

On the other hand, 80% of responses were new between the first and second IC, so it's possible that we get 10-20 more orders each time a post or some hype hits reddit et al. So I'll probably plan a hype spread where I post to a different place at a different time every other day. Hopefully that doesn't end up with too many people getting annoyed!