Logitech Hyperscroll

[Input Nirvana]

Has anyone here used/disassembled a Logitech mouse with Hyperscroll? I'm re-visiting the idea of incorporating the scroll wheel into the Contour mod, or maybe into my Rollermouse. I'm looking for some feedback on the size of the mechanism and its overall operation. Maybe a couple pics?

[In Stereo!]

I actually have an RX1500 which is not being used. Maybe I could diassemble it in the evenig.

[Input Nirvana]

It sounds like a very interesting scroll wheel assembly, with a little servo that retracts the clicking portion when you scroll quickly.

Do you like the scrolling features and software?

[In Stereo!]

There is a reason why it is not being used.

I'd agree on it being a nice piece of mechanical engineering, but I do not really like using the free scroll. On top of that, it takes away the standard middle click, replacing it with the mechanical scroll mode switch. On this particular mouse (RX1500), there is a dedicated middle click button, but the position makes it unusable.

Anyhow, I feel the free scroll is usable mainly when you want to scroll directly to the bottom of some document/webpage. In such case I'd rather just grab the scroll bar, and drag it down. I'm sorry, Logitech.

[HaaTa]

I like the free scrolling myself. It's a lot less jarring on the index/middle finger than a standard mechanical scroll. So if I'm scrolling web pages or documents for say 3-4 hours straight (I've done this on many occasions...), the free scrolling definitely saves your finger some pain.

In games however, I much prefer the mechanical scroll.

[In Stereo!]

Technically speaking, both the standard and the free scroll wheel are mechanical devices. The standard scroll has a stepper which the free one does not. An interesting fact is that before Logitech introduced the Hyper Scroll, free scrolling wheels on mouses were considered to be broken and in need of a repair; often can actually happen, that the stepper get demaged during a fall or something like that.

On the other hand I'd say that I actually like the Hyper Scroll when set in stepper mode over some other scroll wheels like the ones on Razer mice.

[Input Nirvana]

Thank you for the "reviews", pretty important for someone that hasn't used one. I'm interested that you like the wheel in stepped mode over some other wheels. It keeps it on the list for me. I've got to try how it works to see if it could go on the Contour mod as a secondary pointing device.

[Phaedrus2129]

I have a G500 with "hyperscroll", and no it does not take away the "third mouse button" click. There's a separate button just behind the scrollwheel that switches between clicky and freespinning.

I find it useful for quickly navigating down a forum or other webpage.

I like the free scrolling myself. It's a lot less jarring on the index/middle finger than a standard mechanical scroll. So if I'm scrolling web pages or documents for say 3-4 hours straight (I've done this on many occasions...), the free scrolling definitely saves your finger some pain.

In games however, I much prefer the mechanical scroll.

This is pretty much my point of view.

[In Stereo!]

and no it does not take away the "third mouse button" click.

I was reffering to the RX1500.

[In Stereo!]

Here they are:

[didjamatic]

Very interested... I'd like to add scrolling to a CH DT225.  I was previously looking into a mightymouse scroll ball mod or IBM scrollpoint stick but this scroll wheel looks great and I love hyperscrolling on my logitech g9x.

For touchpad scroll, I'm waiting for ripster to go first.  A key with the touchpad is for it to scroll rather than move cursor and some won't do that.

[ricercar]

Show Image

I've been experimenting with TouchPads outside of enclosures. They're erratic on the edge; I wonder what this one has to prevent edge wiggle.

[Input Nirvana]

Thank you for pics. Looks like the wheel has a large enough diameter that it could be easily retrofitted into another case. I want to see if there are different model Hyperscroll assemblies, or if Logitech just offers different features through software/mouse button arrangements. I don't know if I should consider using a wireless mouse as part of the Contour project?

I've noted on the Logitech website that they have listed some mice to work with PC only, and others to work with PC/Mac regarding downloadable software  

Saw this on Ebay, seems cheap enough to get one to try out on the Contour or the Rollermouse (works PC/Mac):

http://cgi.ebay.com/Logitech-M500-Tilt-Wheel-USB-1000-DPI-Mouse-/110501121805?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Mice&hash=item19ba614f0d#ht_6711wt_1391

[In Stereo!]

One interesting thing is that the scroll wheel PCB is of a different color and is obviously quite differently made than the PCB holding all the other components. It almost gives the impression of a parasite, so I'd immagine that, there is only one type of Hyperscroll that is put into different Logitech mice. But apperently, different mice use different ways to switch between the free spin and stepper modes and keeping in mind that this mode switches must always be mechanical devices it should result in Hyperscrolls made in substantialy different ways.

[Input Nirvana]

Very cool. The .pdf combined with the pics shows me everything I need to know. I had tried that .pdf link on Logitechs website, but it is broken.

Think I'll invest the $25 or so for a possible hyperscroll project add-on.

Thank you guys again

EDIT----
Spoke with Logitech support (pretty damn helpful!) confirmed there is one type of Hyperscroll wheel assembly, all work PC/Mac regardless what website says.

Ebay has RX1500 for $20 shipped and M500 for $26 shipped. The M500 has Forward/Backward buttons, so dunno which I'll get. I can get the same function from Backspace/Shift+Backspace

[Input Nirvana]

There is a reason why it is not being used.

I'd agree on it being a nice piece of mechanical engineering, but I do not really like using the free scroll. On top of that, it takes away the standard middle click, replacing it with the mechanical scroll mode switch. On this particular mouse (RX1500), there is a dedicated middle click button, but the position makes it unusable.

Anyhow, I feel the free scroll is usable mainly when you want to scroll directly to the bottom of some document/webpage. In such case I'd rather just grab the scroll bar, and drag it down. I'm sorry, Logitech.

Where is the middle click?
I'm deciding between the RX1500 and the M500.

[In Stereo!]

The round button in the middle. In the photos I posted, you can se the position of the actual switch on the PCB (just behind the wheel).

[Input Nirvana]

I thought that was the hyperscroll mode switch?

[In Stereo!]

Nope. You switch the mode by pressing down the wheel itself.

And it goes from this:


To this:


Maybe I need to make a GIF.

[Input Nirvana]

AHHH...got it. Kinda backwards.

Logitech M500
 

Logitech RX1500
 

Cool thanks. You've really helped me.
Now it's just a question of which will work better with the scroll wheel removed and placed in the Contour mod.

[Input Nirvana]

If you spin the wheel quickly, it automatically switches modes?

[In Stereo!]

No. Just if you press it downwards

[Input Nirvana]

Got it. It's button, and you select on/off/on/off with a single push each time.

[Zalusithix]

Yeah, there's a number of different wheels. Some have the ability to change between modes on the fly based on scroll speed, some change modes only on wheel click, and some actually have a slider on the bottom of the mouse to engage/disengage the ratchet.

[Input Nirvana]

I'm thinking maybe the M500 changes on the fly and the RX1500 is a wheel click. I see benefits to both.
If it changes on the fly, can that be overridden manually, or have the speed setting changed?

Thanks for the clarification.

[Input Nirvana]

RX1500 is the way to go for Contour mod. Press scroll wheel to change modes. The M500 and RX1500 are opposite of each other:

RX1500-push wheel to change modes, middle click is button behind wheel.
M500-push wheel for middle click, change modes is button behind wheel.

[bionicroach]

RX1500 is the way to go for Contour mod. Press scroll wheel to change modes.

I'm dying to know if you get this working!  This is really the only daily gripe I have with my Rollermouse Free.

[Input Nirvana]

I'm with ya brother!  

[Input Nirvana]

A quick scrolling mod would be to add this velcro stick on touchpad.  

Show Image

Haven't tried it.  Waiting for someone else to go first.

I had one of these, it worked well. I liked not having a big plastic case around it taking up space, so that's great for mods. It has more usable options via software on PC than on Mac. I got spoiled with it and now I want full gestures.

[Input Nirvana]

Got the Logitech RX1500 a little while ago today.

Like the feel of the not smooth surface and color scheme, don't care for the finger-placement ridges. Left/Right buttons/switches are fine, middle button feel is also fine but placement not so good unless you use very rarely. Could have been in front of the scroll wheel and I would actually like it.

Scroll wheel. In click to click mode, I REALLY like it. Smoother, easier, than my Rollermouse scroll wheel. Also, you can send the wheel flying with maybe 20 clicks before it stops. In freewheel mode, it's as advertised. It'll roll for more than you need, that's not an issue. There is no resistance, very similar to the cursor rollerbar on my Rollermouse when rolling up/down. (There is very slight resistance in the side to side movement on the rollerbar). The freewheel mode is dead silent! I like the shape of the scroll wheel, you know exactly where you are on the wheel so horizontal scrolling can be done more easily.

I have one item I'm not digging too much so far. Changing the scrolling modes. Pressing down on the wheel is not a problem as far as functionality is concerned, it's HOW the wheel presses. It's a MAJOR mechanical press (not an electrical contact switch), sloppy, seems like you are activating 2 different mechanisms via the one click. It is NOT like clicking a middle button, which is what I thought it would be similar to. It is very inconsistent with the rest of the mouse operation.

One other issue is that the Logitech software on my computer is not seeing the mouse. I'll address that later.

Remember, I intend to remove the scroll wheel and put it into my Contour Project and maybe my Rollermouse. The wheel function is EVERYTHING. I don't think I want a separate button to switch scroll modes. I should have gone to a retail store to check out, but they are so hit-and-miss with broken mice, etc.

One fun thing is scrolling with the effortless and silent Hyperwheel, and moving the cursor with the equally effortless and silent Rollermouse.


EDIT--Now I would like to see how the other Hyperscroll wheels feel and operate. I definitely think this is a next step improvement in the "scroll wheel" department. It's pretty nice overall.

[Input Nirvana]

I took the wheel assembly apart, it appears I can insert it immediately next to the "G" key, almost touching it. But at this point it appears that it's too large of an assembly to be inserted between "F" and "G".  

It may be better served being installed in lieu of the existing scroll wheel on my Rollermouse. That could be a great combo with the tilting wheel, and better wheel....uh..feel.

[bionicroach]

Yup -- that's exactly what I've been thinking since I got my Rollermouse Free.  The Logitech wheel style would be a perfect match to the smoothness of the Rollermouse cursor bar.  The stock scroll wheel on the RM just sticks out as being a bit clunky compared to the rest of the device.  It's not terrible, but after getting used to being able to navigate the cursor so quickly and easily with the roller bar, the scroll wheel feels like it's slowing down my workflow by comparison.

[Input Nirvana]

When I disassembled the Hyperscroll wheel unit yesterday, I noticed there is a LOT going on to make all that functionality happen with the wheel. It is not a simple unit. I want to swing by a store that has displays so that I can see a different type of Hyperscroll units (as a comparison).

On my RM, the pcb will probably need to be modified to allow for the Hyperscroll. Totally, totally worth it. I'll take some pics and post on my mod page in the next day so you can see what's involved. Not too hard.

At this point, I'm going to ignore the scroll wheel idea on the Contour, I really need to proceed with that project. I didn't want a hobby, I wanted the kick-butt keyboard that addressed most of my concerns. Other than a Datahand, there is nothing out there I can buy, so I gotta make it!

[blueSmoke]

I am resurrecting this old thread even though this is 3 year old.
.
.
.
IN, Any updates on this? I am going in this path and want to save from your mistakes/experience.

I am trying to mod my rollermouse pro2 and have a dead M500 with center clicker lying around.

Did you use the left/right buttons etc also? How did you interface those? Common USB hub or modifying the actual RM circuit?

On a different topic, the RM roller is too free, anybody thought to make it slightly resisitive by some/any mechanism may be putting a soft cotton ball somewhere in the sliding area? Totally non-restrictive is ok, but we are used to other input devices having some amount of resistance. I am talking about the mice & trackballs like DT225, ExpertMouse & CST, all have a little resistance that helps when you are nearing the click area and need to decelerate.

??

[Elrick]

I am talking about the mice & trackballs like DT225, ExpertMouse & CST, all have a little resistance that helps when you are nearing the click area and need to decelerate.

??

Well yes, the Trackballs all have a mechanical ball rubbing up against roller spools that degrade with dirt and dead skin hence you will feel it harder to push that cursor around on screen.

The Scroll wheel inside Logitech mice are perfect because less chance of dirt and skin oils getting to the roller pin inside the mouse.  I just got use to using my MX1100 and now wish all mice had this type of scroll wheel.  It truly allows your finger to control the web-page (internet usage only) no matter how large it is.  Have no problem gently slowing the wheel when I want to see or view something interesting.  Although Ebay is now much more enjoyable when using this feature now  .

[Input Nirvana]

Quick response:

I have/had:
RollerMouse, RollerMouse Free, RollerMouse Free2.

The scroll wheel with RollerMouse and RollerMouse Free is a typical scroll wheel and compared with the very cool functionality of RollerMouse it seems archaic. I believe after these posts (circa mid-2010) I got a RollerMouse Free2 which has a greatly enhanced scroll wheel. MUCH smoother and silky with weight (but clicky), but not freewheeling like the HyperScroll in 'free' mode but similar to 'click' mode. I spoke to Contour Designs about the newer Free2 scroll wheel and was told they improved what they could and used the HyperScroll as a model of perfection, but are careful not to overstep patents.

For the record: Most of my shizz is in storage and I haven't used the HyperScroll in a long time, but I have that same unit. I still believe it is the best candidate to implement into a Kinesis keyboard as a built in scroll wheel. Before I put it into place permanently on the Split Kinesis which I did as a temporary mock up only, I need to get the other 1 or 2 models of HyperScroll to evaluate which is best to use. Totally worth it.

Sorry I don't have more info on this, but as most of you know my world crashed mid-2011 through end of 2012. The upside is that I'm finally regrouping and feeling the motivation again. I've been in contact with a few of you and have done a few preliminary behind the scenes moves to complete the Split Kinesis with the controllers that have popped up in the last 12+ months. I look forward to reposting the article with enhancements that's in my sig.

Feel free to PM or post with other questions and I'll try to answer specifically.

[damorgue]

Posting here mainly to keep track of the progress and any people who might be interested in getting rid of their scroll wheel assemblies eventually. I too am looking for one to use in a project. I got to visit a store and try out the scrolls. Unfortunately, some of the ones people appear very fond of are no longer made and I have to get a second hand one to even try out the wheel.

[Input Nirvana]

Posting here mainly to keep track of the progress and any people who might be interested in getting rid of their scroll wheel assemblies eventually. I too am looking for one to use in a project. I got to visit a store and try out the scrolls. Unfortunately, some of the ones people appear very fond of are no longer made and I have to get a second hand one to even try out the wheel.

Are you referring to some of the various HyperScroll wheels?
If so, I'm bummed that may be the case. I have "one" type, but I was considering the "other" type…so I may need to look to flea bay to find one if they aren't made anymore.

[blueSmoke]

Yep, Fl ebay is the only chance.

I believe there may be at least 3 types, have yet to verify. I have one type in the M500, RX1500 may have another one, even yet different one may be in few of those portable low profile mice (may not have the servo motor thingy) where the hyper gets activated by pressing the wheel, the very early one may be the MX revolution (have to dig for the patent).

[Input Nirvana]

So I guess HyperScroll didn't catch on…just a marketing gig for a couple years? Too bad because it's really neat. I have the scroll wheel that you press to change function. Doesn't work the way I would like and so I want to get the wheel that has a button to press to change the HyperScroll back and forth from clicky to smooooooth spinnnnning…. dang, AND I need to get some model numbers too. Crap. A lot changed the last 2 years while I hibernated.

[damorgue]

So I guess HyperScroll didn't catch on…just a marketing gig for a couple years? Too bad because it's really neat. I have the scroll wheel that you press to change function. Doesn't work the way I would like and so I want to get the wheel that has a button to press to change the HyperScroll back and forth from clicky to smooooooth spinnnnning…. dang, AND I need to get some model numbers too. Crap. A lot changed the last 2 years while I hibernated.

I believe on of the Logitech Revolution mice had a button on the bottom of the mouse which switched between the functions. That button could probably be retrieved as well, unless a lot of the functionality is handled by its firmware in which case we will need to figure out where to apply what voltages to the scrolling mechanism to achieve a similar result.

[blueSmoke]

"So I guess HyperScroll didn't catch on…just a marketing gig for a couple years? Too bad because it's really neat. "

I disagree. I think it is a good feature not implemented correctly. Also the overall scroll mechanism is out of favor due to being somewhat jarring, and flimsy (I think!!!) after few hours use. So a lot of guys may be using the arrow cluster/page navigation keys instead.

ok. You have a model that I dont have and would like to look out to check the insides. I have two models (performance MX wireless no receiver, & m500 wired dead) both have the click to scroll button behind the scroll wheel. Both also have tiltwheel. One thing I need to mention is both feel kinda loose;  might be because these are used ones. feels like these have gone thru some amount of cost cutting, no rigidity.

When you get a chance can you take photos of the inside of your mice? I would like to compare; will post mine here tomorrow.

Some model numbers from my notes:
hyperscroll models: logitech Marathon M705, vx revolution (portable), mx revolution, performance mx,
m500,G500,G9 (low tracking rate cap),g9x,MX620,M555b bluetooth(portable) Anywhere Mouse MX,
RX1500-push wheel to change modes, middle click is button behind wheel.

[Elrick]

"So I guess HyperScroll didn't catch on…just a marketing gig for a couple years? Too bad because it's really neat. "

I disagree. I think it is a good feature not implemented correctly. Also the overall scroll mechanism is out of favor due to being somewhat jarring, and flimsy (I think!!!) after few hours use. So a lot of guys may be using the arrow cluster/page navigation keys instead.

Some model numbers from my notes:
hyperscroll models: logitech Marathon M705, vx revolution (portable), mx revolution, performance mx,
m500,G500,G9 (low tracking rate cap),g9x,MX620,M555b bluetooth(portable) Anywhere Mouse MX,
RX1500-push wheel to change modes, middle click is button behind wheel.

I've had my MX1100 for almost 4 years now and it's still good like the day I first bought it.  This isn't an RMA or swapped over item - this is the ORIGINAL when it first came out.

The SCROLL wheel is perfect, of course it's a tiny bit wobbly due to the side scroll mechanism which is built into these things.  Overall when you flick the scroll wheel, a mile long web-page goes through - in a couple of seconds  .

I still think it's the BEST ever design implemented into any type of pointing device, thus far.  Hence my 'fave rodent' will be with me, for some time to come.

[blueSmoke]

Another interesting find MX1100...

Looks like they have few more models that I have not uncovered.

Is there even more variant to this mechanism? I read somewhere that there is something called hyper scrolling and the newer term is hyper-fast scrolling. In hyper-srolling they had an additional control that could disable the hyper mode via software; this mode is different than what we are getting now a days (the extra button thing), i.e. when you spin the wheel really hard (above a set threshold), free spins and scrolls extremely quickly. Before the threshold it works as a regular scroll wheel.

This definitely is another different mechanism. What model can this be? There is vx nano that allows disabling of the hyperscroll from software. Some hint at mx revolution also does that.

Elrick... Does yours do  this?

[damorgue]

Dammit, a MX1100 was sold in a local auction forum last month for 10$ and I missed it.

[Elrick]

Another interesting find MX1100...

Is there even more variant to this mechanism? I read somewhere that there is something called hyper scrolling and the newer term is hyper-fast scrolling. In hyper-srolling they had an additional control that could disable the hyper mode via software; this mode is different than what we are getting now a days (the extra button thing), i.e. when you spin the wheel really hard (above a set threshold), free spins and scrolls extremely quickly. Before the threshold it works as a regular scroll wheel.

This definitely is another different mechanism. What model can this be? There is vx nano that allows disabling of the hyperscroll from software. Some hint at mx revolution also does that.

Elrick... Does yours do  this?

My MX1100 has a button to enable the stepped clicking of the wheel so in effect stopping the free-scrolling.  That is the only thing that enables a normal style of scroll wheel and to turn it off - to allow Free-scrolling.

I am using Set-point software ( Control Center Version - 6.61.15 / Driver Version - 5.60.73 ) and in there, a "BUTTONS SETTINGS / Auto Scroll Setting is featured (standard).  Off course it comes pre-configured mid way between SLOW and FAST.  You choose how slow/quickly you want to auto scroll.  Also within Firefox v25.0.1 - Logitech Set Point 6.5 is installed to allow 'smooth scrolling' which is better than Firefox's own version, go figure.

You only really have 2 options - enable the button below the scroll wheel to have a NORMAL style of scroll wheel (with steps/bumps) or disable the button to allow FREE-Scrolling for ever.  I tend to leave this option on all the time because I frequent Ebay all to often and it helps to view everything quickly without any disturbance.  But when I want to view something in detail you allow your finger to slow the wheel down easily.

The main reason why I still use this rodent is the perfect ergonomic placement for my right hand.  I haven't got anything that matches as close to perfection when spending hours scrolling through massive amounts of documents, as with an MX1100  .

[cinnamoncider]

I just love this feature. This is very helpful for me when browsing long documents with skimming instead of skipping an entire number of pages. 

[damorgue]

Summary of Logitech Performance MX and MX Revolution after having taken them apart and examined the scrolling mechanisms. I might look into the others with similar functionality.

Performance MX:
-Mechanically engaged free spin-function, toggled by nearby button. It thus cannot be toggled through software, but on the other hand doesn't require power to toggle this functionality.
-The side scrolling is analogue, and the more it is pushed sideways, the faster it will scroll horizontally.
-Pressing the scroll wheel as a button is difficult as it is easily pushed a little sideways which will make it scroll horizontally instead.

MX Revolution:
-Electronically engaged free spin-function. It can thus be toggled both through software and by pressing a button when on, but on the other hand requires power to toggle this functionality. It can also toggle when you are scrolling above a certain speed for instance. Mine almost sounds like the shutter of a camera when it engages.
-The side scrolling is discrete. It clicks from side to side which makes it far easier to click the scroll wheel without accidentally scrolling horizontally.

[Input Nirvana]

Wow, I blink and you guys post a lot of really good info…I still really want to try the "other" type of HyperScroll (I have the RX1500).

Bluesmoke: We've talked about it before…we need to get together for a few hours and review with all of our "stuff". Maybe be able to sort through a few things, and ultimately post results on GH.

[Elrick]

Summary of Logitech Performance MX and MX Revolution after having taken them apart and examined the scrolling mechanisms. I might look into the others with similar functionality.

MX Revolution:
-Electronically engaged free spin-function. It can thus be toggled both through software and by pressing a button when on, but on the other hand requires power to toggle this functionality. It can also toggle when you are scrolling above a certain speed for instance. Mine almost sounds like the shutter of a camera when it engages.
-The side scrolling is discrete. It clicks from side to side which makes it far easier to click the scroll wheel without accidentally scrolling horizontally.

I have an MX5500 Bluetooth set that included a MX Revolution and within the Logitech's software there is a "Logitech SmartShift Technology" and has 4 settings allowing a great variety of actions both enabling and disabling the scroll wheel click.  Although with my version I hear no switching as you select a setting.  It just clicks instantly when anything is selected, unfortunately doesn't sound anything like a camera shutter.

I have a lot of junk piled downstairs in the basement hence one of these days I have to do an audit and find out what else is down there.