Author Topic: ToucheLibre, a wooden smart ergonomic keyboard  (Read 5250 times)

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Offline Lili„Bug

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ToucheLibre, a wooden smart ergonomic keyboard
« on: Sat, 09 March 2019, 07:14:15 »
Hi,

Some words to introduce you a new project.
See ToucheLibre:thumb:

It is a wooden smart ergonomic keyboard.
The first version of housing is done.
The electronic and software parts are under progress.

The material is plywood with walnut sheet cladding
And some leather for wrist stand.


I make a new dvorak layout version : Kťa.
Kťa is optimisated for english, french and spanish language.
But Kťa can take in account all the language with latin alphabet.


What do you think about ?
« Last Edit: Sat, 09 March 2019, 07:30:06 by Lili„Bug »

Online algernon

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Re: ToucheLibre, a wooden smart ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 10 March 2019, 18:42:56 »
This looks quite interesting. Looking forward to seeing it progress!

(Also, where can I buy one? :))

Offline Sintpinty

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Re: ToucheLibre, a wooden smart ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 11 March 2019, 06:58:59 »
Interesting.

Offline Lili„Bug

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Re: ToucheLibre, a wooden smart ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 19 February 2020, 06:27:03 »
ToucheLibre, it works!!!



This message has been written with the ToucheLibre keyboard.

What a pleasure to finally play with my keyboardÖ I feel like a little Edison who communicates for the first time with his phone (proportionally kept and with all the modesty that falls to me of course).


Here are some pictures of the beast:

Made of walnut and wax finish.




*

Small tactile markers to rest position.
Edge of keys tinted with copper wax.




*

Leather cuff.



*

The mystery key and the indicator leds.



*

Non-slip cork surface.



*

wooden ON/OFF button.
USB cable woven by me.



*

Letís open the box.



*

So beautifull electronic board.
Switch Cherry ML, equivalent to brown MX with less stroke.



*

ATmega32U4 could be developed under Arduino environment or QMK environment.



*

modular design to deal with obsolescence. For example, if the USB evolves not need to change everything.



*

2◊2 AAA battery for bluetooth function.





On the sensation side, it's very pleasant.

Just the feel of wood, it has nothing to do with plastic.
The geometry is really nice, comfort as expected.
I have to get used to regaining my speed, but it should be fine.




There is still software work to be done, but it is very encouraging.
All basic keys work on Linux and Window (MacOS not tested).
The drivers at my Kea layout run on Linux and Window.

It remains to program the advanced functions:
* Additional keys on the numeric keypad (special for ToucheLibre), that is to say: (), ^ Ä =
* Compose key and access to levels 5, 6, 7, 8 for windows (OK under Linux)
* Piloting indicator LEDs
* Bluetooth
* Various and varied macroÖ


My cat impatiently awaits the mouseÖ





Kind regards
Lilian
« Last Edit: Wed, 19 February 2020, 06:31:36 by Lili„Bug »

Offline kurplop

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Re: ToucheLibre, a wooden smart ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 19 February 2020, 09:24:42 »
Congratulations. Very nice execution. How do you like the placement of the switches? Iíve used MLís on several projects and like the feel but they can stick with off-presses. Have you noticed that at all with the larger caps?

Offline Lili„Bug

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Re: ToucheLibre, a wooden smart ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 19 February 2020, 12:03:18 »
Thanks Kurplop.
I donít have problem with ML switches in off-presses. My caps are not so large.
May be if something touches the edge, we can have blokage. The spring is not very powerful.

About the placement, I am not sure what do you mean ? (Sorry about my bad french guy englishÖ)
Do you talk about geometry (ergonomic physical choice) or layout (Where is glyph, character) ?
« Last Edit: Wed, 19 February 2020, 12:30:44 by Lili„Bug »

Offline kurplop

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Re: ToucheLibre, a wooden smart ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 19 February 2020, 14:38:22 »
Thanks Kurplop.
I donít have problem with ML switches in off-presses. My caps are not so large.
May be if something touches the edge, we can have blokage. The spring is not very powerful.

About the placement, I am not sure what do you mean ? (Sorry about my bad french guy englishÖ)
Do you talk about geometry (ergonomic physical choice) or layout (Where is glyph, character) ?

Both, but I was referring primarily to the physical placement. My keyboards are shaped similar to yours but with a trackball in the center instead of a number pad. I wonder how comfortable it is to use the number pad there. Iíve had people question my center placement of the trackball thinking it would be awkward, but it is ideal.

The palm rests seem higher than usual too. How is that working? It seems that would work well if your keyboard was pretty low, relative to your position.

Is the top and caps cut from the same sheet of veneer?  If so, Iím wondering how you kept the kerf so small unless you punched them.

Did you do all of the work yourself? If so, it is a very impressive accomplishment. Either way, itís nice to see something here that doesnít look like everything else. :thumb:

Offline Lili„Bug

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Re: ToucheLibre, a wooden smart ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 20 February 2020, 06:58:44 »
About the glyph part, I have done a description in first post. But you can see more detail here.

kea layout


legende


The initial choices for building this layout are:
* Optimize for French, English and Spanish.
* Being able to write all languages ​​based on the Latin alphabet with access to all types of accent imaginable.
* To facilitate programming by having all ASCII characters in easy access.
* Access common mathematical and technical symbols.
* Access the Greek alphabet with a (so-called) dead key. Itís very useful in science.
* In addition, the lateral movement of the little finger is limited.
* And access the phonetic alphabet to facilitate language learning.
* Facilitate the memorization of the keyboard by placing one next to the other, the keys close by the form, by the phonetics or by their historical origin (as much as possible in any case).

(* In progress: the Kea will offer an extension by phonetic proximity to other alphabets than Latin: Greek, Cyrillic, Arabic, Hebrew, Bopomofo (phonetic alphabet for Chinese) and Japanese Kanas.)


*


About the physical part, I like have the numeric pad in middle. And see can use it with right hand or left hand. It is very useful for excel in example. In more, in future, this numeric pad will can turn to macro function.

I like trackball. And I see your keyboard in Flickr. It is very nice. With wood, I think we have the same mind  ;-)
In futur, I wish add a trackball and a joystik in ToucheLibre. But I want to put it in left or right hand. My design is modular. Just an idea below:

In left


In right



*

The palm rest is higher 12 mm than the top of keyboards So the wrist is not broken and the hand is in same line to arm. It is very comfortable. Ideal against the carpal tunnel syndrome.


*


The keyboard is made with 4 plywood boards In the top plywood board, I stick a sheet of wood.
In second time, I cut it with laser cutting machine. I rent it in a fablab.
so the grain of the wood is the same in caps and in the top.


*


Yes, I do everything: Design, mechanics, electronics, software. A freind have given me some help about software. But I learn C language currently to finish the project.

Yes. ďthink different.Ē like said Steve Jobs.


Offline nathanchere

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Re: ToucheLibre, a wooden smart ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 20 February 2020, 07:33:19 »
I have to admit I never expected this to see the light of day. VERY happy to be proven wrong. Really impressive result.

Offline Lili„Bug

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Re: ToucheLibre, a wooden smart ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 20 February 2020, 14:58:04 »
Thanks a lot nathanchere,
It is the best compliment I never receive.

Offline ergonaut

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Re: ToucheLibre, a wooden smart ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 20 February 2020, 15:58:54 »
Very impressive and very creative, well done!

What does the mystery key do?
« Last Edit: Thu, 20 February 2020, 16:00:32 by ergonaut »

Offline iso

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Re: ToucheLibre, a wooden smart ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 21 February 2020, 02:24:46 »
Nice execution.
Have to considewr shoulder width, having hands so close and flat, takes away from what could be a much better design.
If you cant have control over incline/recline for individual "halves" - left/right hand area, is not that ergo.

Offline kurplop

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Re: ToucheLibre, a wooden smart ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 21 February 2020, 07:20:40 »
I have found separation isnít that critical (for me) as long as the skew angle is appropriate. Also, IMO the center switches provide adequate separation.
« Last Edit: Fri, 21 February 2020, 07:23:34 by kurplop »

Offline Lili„Bug

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Re: ToucheLibre, a wooden smart ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 22 February 2020, 05:04:52 »
Mystery key ? Good question Ergonaut.

It is a mystery to me too. Because I have several ideas and no definive decision.

I could be a macro for :
* Generate the most used password by combinaison: Mystery + number. It should be nice to get connection with KeePassX softwareÖ
* Turn the keyboard in crypted mode (combinaison αβ + Mystery). Send directly a crypted message to computer. I think a nano computer is needed. So, futur development.
* Lock the keyboard and the PC too in standby mode. And wake‑up by password.

An other interesting macro is αβ key. I imagine these possibilities:
* Selection of layout (latin, grec, cyrillic, arab, hebrew, bopomofo or other) by combinaison: αβ + [F1,F2,F3]
* Selection of mode (normal, rescue when kťa driver is not installed, stenographer, handicap only one hand ) by combinaison: αβ + [F4,F5,F6]
* Selection of device (PC nį1, PC nį2, smartphone, iPadÖ) and communication by USB or Bluetooth with a combinaison: αβ + [F7,F8,F9]
* Selection of OS (Window, GNU/Linux, MacOS), it is needed for advanced function, by combinaison: αβ + [F10,F11,F12]
* Turn numeric pad to macro pad by combinaison: αβ + Ä (top of triangle)
« Last Edit: Sat, 22 February 2020, 05:45:15 by Lili„Bug »

Offline Lili„Bug

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Re: ToucheLibre, a wooden smart ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 22 February 2020, 05:05:51 »

To be ergo or not to be ergo ? That is the crucial question.
And how to match to all the morphologies ? I think is the Holy Grail for geekhack community.

ToucheLibre is my modest contribution. Letís me give some explaination about my technical choices:

1/
In french and in a lot of language, we need letter with accent. So it is good idea to kept it in special line key instead of numbers.
So we need to kept numeric pad. So full size keyboard choice.


2/
Put key in diagonal ways to not broken the wrist. It is good idea.
The arm is well aligned with the keyboard. We can tune the distance between the keyboard and you in relation to shoulder width.




3/
I think it is a good idea to have numeric pad in middle to be used with the two hands. So I imagine a form (triangle) to put the numeric pad in middle with efficient occupied surface.


4/
In my way, the most used letter shall be in line B, C, D between rest line. You can see below the possibilities of ToucheLibre without wrist movement.





5/
Easy access of rare letter by rotation of ear finger




6/
For access to special characters, full deployment of the hand is possible with almost no movement of the wrist (depending on the size of your hand).




7/
The acces of numeric pad is not so hard with hand rotation.




8/
In fact, by doing tests, I realized that in reality, even if the surface is flat, the hand naturally tilts about 10 į to 15 į because the flesh at the level of the thumb is thicker than on the other side. So I didnít really feel the need to tilt the keyboard any further. Especially since my keyboard is quite wide and the arms are comfortably placed diagonally.




9/
I donít question about the shoulder width. But maybe I should. I have more questions about hand size. In the future, I would consider creating multiple keyboard sizes. As for the gloves. A keyboard for the size of children would make me happyÖ




ToucheLibre could get better ergomic features in future. Letís hope.
May the Ergo be with ToucheLibreÖ     ;-)

Offline DrivenKeys

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Re: ToucheLibre, a wooden smart ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 23 March 2020, 03:16:41 »
Very impressive design and workmanship.
1994 Lexmark Model M, Unicomp EnduraPro, Leopold FC900R (MX Clears), Ducky One White LED (MX Whites), Das Keyboard X50q (love them Omrons!)

Offline Zustiur

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Re: ToucheLibre, a wooden smart ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 25 March 2020, 23:13:25 »
I came to a similar conclusion about shoulder width vs angle. For the way I use a keyboard, lateral inclination (tenting) causes more problems than it solves (at least when I'm doing my job), so a flat keyboard with the hands turned inward from the shoulder works well.

Offline iso

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Re: ToucheLibre, a wooden smart ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 26 March 2020, 08:22:10 »
[rant]
I almost took a picture of my hand and added to this reply. There is nothing about human body that is flat. Flat is convenient to manufacture but not ergonomic. There is no argument about what is comfortable to you, I`m glad you found the right angles and there is no stress anywhere.
I`ll add this tho, if you rest your hand on the desk you`ll see the thumb on both hand is slighty higher than pinky, no matter how you define "confortable" and how high your desk/chair is, I found that to always be the case.
I only came back to reply to this because I highly appreciate the quality of your work.
Geekhack is full of "my ergonomic this and that" but most of the time there is no minimal understanding on why things need to be done in a certain way, properly, not "made to look weird" or "ahh" factor.
Another thing to consider is fitness, someone that exercise regularly will have an easier time with unconfortable devices
[/rant]