Author Topic: thumbcluster ergo - any multimedia professionals here?  (Read 4097 times)

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Offline fleischverpackung

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thumbcluster ergo - any multimedia professionals here?
« on: Sun, 10 March 2019, 15:21:55 »
hi all,

I am quite proficient with qwertz at a relaxed speed of 80wpm. My working day involves a lot of shortcuts and I often use the numpad. I work with a lot of different software and sometimes on different machines too. Creative suite, 3d editors, node patching environments, unity, IDEs and text editors.

I am curious for an egro setup with split keyboard and thumbcluster. maltron is just too big but I like the idea, dactyl is diy and has no easy programming interface, truly ergonomic cleave is not out yet, so my pick would be ergodox atm.

Anyone here that works in my kind of media environment and may share their transition experience? are their problems when switching keyboards often? How hard to learn numpad and shortcuts? Are you faster or just more comfortable?

Cheers.

Offline darrenph1

  • Posts: 19
Re: thumbcluster ergo - any multimedia professionals here?
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 03 May 2019, 22:42:22 »
I edit and assist for TV Programs primarily using Avid and After Effects. When I was an editor I used a wacom tablet with a razer orbweaver for the keyboard shortcuts for editing. Since then I moved to the scripted tv genre but had to take a step back to assistant editing which for me isn't as fast with a wacom unless I'm doing VFX work. I love the orbweaver but hate having to move back to the keyboard to type. So I'm looking for some for some sort of ergo split myself. Things I've tried: Both the Ergodox EZ and the Keyboardio. I built some custom tents to keep them at 45*.

https://imgur.com/a/GT6fGiy

The problem is I've become so used to using the rocker switch on the orbweaver for my play/pause/reverse it's hard to change it back to keys. I have a https://www.dygma.com/ on order to see how I like that but if that doesn't work I'm thinking a tented quefrency 65 and then possibly a dactyl. Please update this thread or me if you end up going that route and how you like it.


Offline iso

  • Posts: 221
Re: thumbcluster ergo - any multimedia professionals here?
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 08 May 2019, 03:00:08 »
If you OK with DIY this might be what you`re looking for, console/module swapping, macros, trackpad and soon trackball. Using Teensy 2.0 ++ you can re-flash firmware to work with whatever custom module you attach to it, over 120 keys and support for 200+, split design, negative/positive tilt and much more.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=99856.0

Offline darrenph1

  • Posts: 19
Re: thumbcluster ergo - any multimedia professionals here?
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 08 May 2019, 13:46:27 »
If you OK with DIY this might be what you`re looking for, console/module swapping, macros, trackpad and soon trackball. Using Teensy 2.0 ++ you can re-flash firmware to work with whatever custom module you attach to it, over 120 keys and support for 200+, split design, negative/positive tilt and much more.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=99856.0

Thanks, I've actually looked at your thread before. I'm pretty new to this whole mechanical keyboard world but I think I'm gonna buy a soldering iron and a small macropad to build to see if I can do this as I feel it's going to have to be custom to get what I want.

Your most recent picture in your thread is the closest I've seen to what I'd like, at least the left/right pads. I'd love to fit a 60% or 65% split on 2 pads(left/right) with a thumb cluster similar to the orb weaver on the left. I'm OK with my Logi ergo pro for now and having to move my hand to type but I will be following your thread to see how your trackball works on the right side for you. Keep up the good work!

Offline vvp

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Re: thumbcluster ergo - any multimedia professionals here?
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 09 May 2019, 03:24:57 »
Switching between an ergonomic split keyboard and a standard layout is not a problem. I spend about a week (or two) training about an hour a day when switching to Kinessis Advantage. I swapped my keyboard at work after that. You will not forget the old/standard layout if you use it occasionally. I switched to my custom build (Katy keyboard K80CS) after that. But it was similar enough that no training wroth mentioning was needed.

Offline darrenph1

  • Posts: 19
Re: thumbcluster ergo - any multimedia professionals here?
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 09 May 2019, 09:11:03 »
Switching between an ergonomic split keyboard and a standard layout is not a problem. I spend about a week (or two) training about an hour a day when switching to Kinessis Advantage. I swapped my keyboard at work after that. You will not forget the old/standard layout if you use it occasionally. I switched to my custom build (Katy keyboard K80CS) after that. But it was similar enough that no training wroth mentioning was needed.

That Katy looks nice. If you donít mind me asking how much does it cost to go through all the different versions tweaking it to your liking. Ballpark figure is fine. I canít imagine itís cheap.

I think Iíd do ok with soldering but figuring out how to build 3D printable models seems daunting.

Offline vvp

  • Posts: 816
Re: thumbcluster ergo - any multimedia professionals here?
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 09 May 2019, 10:42:54 »
It costs a lot in time. That is the biggest expense by a very large margin.
When it is already designed then the BOM price is around 140 Ä plus about 37 hrs of work.
That assumes one is not modifying anything. Developing your own 3D models till you are satisfied with them is about 10 times more time ... probably even more.
The specified times / hours are there with preconditions:
  • one has at least few hours of experience with each activity
  • free access to a FDM 3D printer (e.g. cheap RepRap with at least 20x20 cm bed)
  • free access to PDI programmer (since Katy uses ATxmega and not teensy etc; a new programmer is about $50)
  • the price is without PCB, if you etch them at home then it can be about $10; otherwise it depends very much on your PCB source)
  • all the soldering tools are already available
If you do not think you would not enjoy building your own keyboard then do not do it. E.g. Kinesis Advandate is not that bad. If you want tenting then cut a Kinesis in half and tent it yourself. It is much cheaper and quicker that way.

Offline darrenph1

  • Posts: 19
Re: thumbcluster ergo - any multimedia professionals here?
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 09 May 2019, 13:10:03 »
If you do not think you would not enjoy building your own keyboard then do not do it. E.g. Kinesis Advandate is not that bad. If you want tenting then cut a Kinesis in half and tent it yourself. It is much cheaper and quicker that way.

Ya I'm gonna buy a soldering iron and launchpad and see how I feel about building that. Then might try 1/2 iris or 1/2 quefrency. I would hope to know by then if this something I can handle. I also have my eyes on the Rukia GB (plastic Alice clone) and would hope to be ready for that by the time it ships.

Where I want to end though is similar to your build with the thumb cluster similar to the dmote http://viktor.eikman.se/article/the-dmote/ but I would love it to be the thumb cluster from the orb weaver or how this guy did it http://azeron.eu

Gotta dream big right?!?!?!

Offline vvp

  • Posts: 816
Re: thumbcluster ergo - any multimedia professionals here?
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 09 May 2019, 14:01:23 »
dmote looks quite OK if you prefer horizontal thumb movement to vertical. Vertical is easier for me. It may be because of my long Kinesis Advantage history. But I can imagine using a vertical thumb cluster (i.e. horizontal thumb move when pressing).
I guess my biggest problem would be pressing chords which require pressing more (than 2) keys on one thumb cluster. When your thumb cluster is horizontal you can just move your hand there and press all the required keys with fingers together with thumb. If your thumb cluster is vertical then you need somehow rotate your whole hand in position. Not a big deal. You can design your layout so that this is almost never needed.

As for as azeron, well, it is not for me.

Offline darrenph1

  • Posts: 19
Re: thumbcluster ergo - any multimedia professionals here?
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 10 May 2019, 00:11:33 »
dmote looks quite OK if you prefer horizontal thumb movement to vertical. Vertical is easier for me. It may be because of my long Kinesis Advantage history. But I can imagine using a vertical thumb cluster (i.e. horizontal thumb move when pressing).
I guess my biggest problem would be pressing chords which require pressing more (than 2) keys on one thumb cluster. When your thumb cluster is horizontal you can just move your hand there and press all the required keys with fingers together with thumb. If your thumb cluster is vertical then you need somehow rotate your whole hand in position. Not a big deal. You can design your layout so that this is almost never needed.

As for as azeron, well, it is not for me.

Been looking through a lot today. Have you ever tried the manuform? I think I might have to give that  a go before I try any custom build but I"m worried about the how it has more curve than that Dactyl. Have you ever seen a fork of the dactyl with manuform thumb cluster or does that cluster only work because of the curve? Thanks!

Offline vvp

  • Posts: 816
Re: thumbcluster ergo - any multimedia professionals here?
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 10 May 2019, 01:38:12 »
I did not try manuform. Whatever I write about it is only a guess. Especially the original one piece version is not for me. I prefer a split keyboards where I can adjust separation and angles. Also its thumb cluster takes a rather big volume of space considering it has only 6 keys. If would go with a vertical thumb cluster then I would probably choose Oobly's one. It supports pressing two thumb cluster keys at once nicely.

I did not see dactyl with manuform thumb clusters. If you find one then post it's link.
But there is a split dactyl: https://github.com/tshort/dactyl-keyboard
I posted some notes about dactyl here: https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?p=346621#p346621

I have no experience with manuform thumb cluster and no real opinion about it. Only the same as before: looks high volume and since it is partially vertical and even somewhat spread it would be harder to pres more keys on it at once. Maybe find some reach-ability pictures for manuform. And if you find them then post the link. I would like to look at it too. Something like I did here.