[100% Completed] "23 Commando" High-profile Keyset Groupbuy

[MOZ]

60 1u keys.
12 1.5u keys.
4   2u keys

All blank.

I can't comment on estimates, as to how many users of Ergodox would take part.

[Matt3o]

How about a pre-packed kit of blank keys?

you could pack them, but honestly I don't think you'll get more than 10 orders considering that we just hit 50 for the core set. Might be wrong...

[jil_jil32]

Yeh, that's precisely what I'm worried about

[Glod]

What's included in that "Ergodox kit" bro? And may you make a guess how many ergodox user will join?
People who interested in this set of blank keys please show up and let us know your opinion. This might be your only chance to have the blank keys added into this GB. If we do it, make sure to to it so simple and quick, easy to sort everything so the distributor will not have much problem with it.

The current kits are highest priority, so if there is only a small need of the blank keys, or adding the blank keys will slows everything down, I'm afraid I can't please you all and have to drop the blank kit

60 1u keys.
12 1.5u keys.
4   2u keys

All blank.

I can't comment on estimates, as to how many users of Ergodox would take part.

you wouldn't need 60 1u blanks unless you were going for all blank and that would just jack up the cost and given one of the attractive things about this group buy is the base kit. I think it would be nice to have all blanks but trying to get orders would be hard with high $$

your also forgetting that its not all the same profile that would have to be ordered, this isnt DSA, thankfully there is just 2 profiles that would be needed for ergodox

My SA "ErgoDox add on" of blanks would consist of

4x2u row 2 GAW
4x1u row 2 GAW
16x1u row 3 VF
10x1.5u row 3  VF
2x1.5u row 2 GAW (is that even possible?)

I would def join up for this if you added ErgoDox kit because SA sounds appealing for heavy typing and would look great on my aluminium ErgoDox, But i doubt you could get any more than 10 ErgoDox kits sold though. I think its cheaper to buy them by # of individual blanks unsorted but that would mean having to sort all blanks like Ron had to do for Retro DSA.

ill probably sign up even if you don't offer a ergodox add on.

[jil_jil32]

Yes... 2 weeks passed already, and we are over 60 standard kits now. Not bad, I can say that.
I'd like to wait untill we reach 80 kits, then I will start invoicing people.

One good news, a cool guy accepted to be our distributor in the US. It's decided. I'm waiting for his estimated shipping fees, then I will let you guys know everything about shipping.

@Glod: Yes an add-on kit for the ErgoDox users is good. Is that everything you NEED for the ErgoDox kit already? Are you sure about the color yet?
I would appreciate it if you could get some feedbacks of other ErgoDox users for this option of the 23 Commando - ErgoDox add-on kit. If there are several people happy with this, I will get a quote for it.
And, thank you for the reply.

[Tarzan]

I've taken the plunge, and ordered two ErgoDox PCBs, so I'd definitely be interested in a set of these.  Still interested in blanks, though, in addition to the ErgoDox set.  Hope those make it to production!

[MOZ]

Glod's recommendation makes more sense.

[Turbinia]

Nice set, really like that the uniform row 3 for the main area means you can change layouts. The only key missing to do Colemak though is the 1.75 row 3 back space to replace the left caps lock.

[madderoftime]

I'd go for the ErgoDox add on as well as described. I am not a fan of blanks but understand. I simply like doubleshots. Plus it's like taking the lettering off the tires to me. I mean I don't see them unless I look at them and during normal use they are not seen by me but when I go out of my way to look at it I want it to look nice. If it was just function we wouldn't need a color choice.

[Glod]

Yes... 2 weeks passed already, and we are over 60 standard kits now. Not bad, I can say that.
I'd like to wait untill we reach 80 kits, then I will start invoicing people.

One good news, a cool guy accepted to be our distributor in the US. It's decided. I'm waiting for his estimated shipping fees, then I will let you guys know everything about shipping.

@Glod: Yes an add-on kit for the ErgoDox users is good. Is that everything you NEED for the ErgoDox kit already? Are you sure about the color yet?
I would appreciate it if you could get some feedbacks of other ErgoDox users for this option of the 23 Commando - ErgoDox add-on kit. If there are several people happy with this, I will get a quote for it.
And, thank you for the reply.

i mean yeah i would like to get more feedback from ErgoDox guys about what i suggested, its too bad im not good at mock ups because i bet a mock up of it would sell it. The mock up may show my color choices are bad but im 99% sure i have the units correct.

[jil_jil32]

My SA "ErgoDox add on" of blanks would consist of

4x2u row 2 GAW
4x1u row 2 GAW
16x1u row 3 VF
10x1.5u row 3  VF
2x1.5u row 2 GAW

I thought you want to have this color scheme for the ErgoDox:


So this will be the ErgoDox add-on kit:


I just want you to make sure about the Row profile of the 16* 1x Row 3 in VF (green). You don't want those keys have higher angle for better typing experience, do you? Just my thought.

Let me know your opinion.

[MOZ]

Color scheme looks great, I don't have an ErgoDox yet, thus comment on the exact profile keys needed.

[madderoftime]

My SA "ErgoDox add on" of blanks would consist of

4x2u row 2 GAW
4x1u row 2 GAW
16x1u row 3 VF
10x1.5u row 3  VF
2x1.5u row 2 GAW

I thought you want to have this color scheme for the ErgoDox:

Show Image

So this will be the ErgoDox add-on kit:

Show Image

I just want you to make sure about the Row profile of the 16* 1x Row 3 in VF (green). You don't want those keys have higher angle for better typing experience, do you? Just my thought.

Let me know your opinion.

My SA "ErgoDox add on" of blanks would consist of

4x2u row 2 GAW
4x1u row 2 GAW
16x1u row 3 VF
10x1.5u row 3  VF
2x1.5u row 2 GAW

I thought you want to have this color scheme for the ErgoDox:

Show Image

So this will be the ErgoDox add-on kit:

Show Image

I just want you to make sure about the Row profile of the 16* 1x Row 3 in VF (green). You don't want those keys have higher angle for better typing experience, do you? Just my thought.

Let me know your opinion.

I'm agreeing with the layout from Glod although the center 4 1u keys would be better as row1 and the next ones down that pair would be best as row2 and the bottom 2 1u caps as row 3.
That also is just about the way my Kinesis boards are. This set as described should work on those too. I'd get a couple sets just for that.

[jil_jil32]

Have a look at the row profiles here


and please let me know the mounting direction of those keys in the middle for the thumbs


Edit:
This is what I got about the row profiles and the direction the thumb press the keys that Glod's talking about

[Glod]

Have a look at the row profiles here

Show Image

and please let me know the mounting direction of those keys in the middle for the thumbs


Edit:
This is what I got about the row profiles and the direction the thumb press the keys that Glod's talking about

Show Image

thumb cluster is the best it can be. the bottom blank 10x 1u keys could be row 4 you have a point that being higher would be better and look better.

mock up looks amazing,

[tormentor]

GLWS. I wish I could just buy the enter key. I don't care much for the color otherwise. I'm not much into camo or military themes.

[madderoftime]

This is that I was suggesting:

Row 2 and 4 are identical as a blank right?

[jil_jil32]

I see what you want, madderoftime. And yes, for blank keys, row2 and row4 are identical.
Because I don't have an ErgoDox, so I have no comment which one is the better for actual usage. Now it depends on you guys, choose one kit to go then I will get a quote for it early next week.

Only one thing, I think Glod's option will be easier for producing & sorting, should be a little bit cheaper also.

The ErgoDox kit is an add-on kit I provide to attract more people to get the standard kit. The standard kit is always my highest priority, and I don't want the distributing guy have much problem of sorting the stuffs, so I would like to have the ErgoDox add-on kit ordered as pre-sorted and packed kit. In case we have only few kits ordered, I might think of ordering those as separately blank keys for cheaper, but I have to get the agreement from the distributing guy before I think about it.

[madderoftime]

GLWS. I wish I could just buy the enter key. I don't care much for the color otherwise. I'm not much into camo or military themes.

The enter key won't fit my keyboards.

[madderoftime]

I see what you want, madderoftime. And yes, for blank keys, row2 and row4 are identical.
Because I don't have an ErgoDox, so I have no comment which one is the better for actual usage. Now it depends on you guys, choose one kit to go then I will get a quote for it early next week.

Only one thing, I think Glod's option will be easier for producing & sorting, should be a little bit cheaper also.

The ErgoDox kit is an add-on kit I provide to attract more people to get the standard kit. The standard kit is always my highest priority, and I don't want the distributing guy have much problem of sorting the stuffs, so I would like to have the ErgoDox add-on kit ordered as pre-sorted and packed kit. In case we have only few kits ordered, I might think of ordering those as separately blank keys for cheaper, but I have to get the agreement from the distributing guy before I think about it.

I'm ok with how I had suggested it being that I intended to use on 2 different Ergo boards. If the cost is too high though it would be better to just go with the other options entirely. The real pull here is the base kit and if you can't use the legends it is sort of a mute point to go with it.

[jil_jil32]

69 Standard kits - 99 VL kits ordered!

Very close to the next price tiers, go go go guys!

[Lumune]

Any chance of having an extra (esc or icon) key in row 2 in the update kits?
Reason being I am going to build a GH60 and I need an esc/icon key to replace the tilda/backslash key, but there are such keys in row 2's profile.

[danielucf]

I was curious why 10 keys in the gamer set is $31 @ 25 kits and 22 keys in the 1.2 upgrade kit is only $1.40 more AND it includes larger than 1x keys which are normally more expensive? Ten 1x keys should always be cheaper than nineteen 1x keys, one 1.25x key, one 1.5x key, and one iso enter key with printing on the front (front printing costs additional money).

The gamer set seems like it should be closer in price to the VL kit if not cheaper since it uses only two colors instead of 12-14. You may want to get new quotes from Signature Plastics based off of the kit images.

[pmh1410]

Great keyset with SA profile, go to the top ..............................................

[skuphundaku]

AWESOME!

Ordered

[jil_jil32]

News and Updates:

Deadline
12-Aug-2013





Shipping
Shipping will be invoiced SEPARATELY and will come from mashby after your order has been sorted, packaged and ready for shipping.
We will be using USPS Priority Mail, which provides the following advantages:
   - Boxed packaging to protect your order
   - Tracking number for ensuring delivery
   - $50 insurance for your order
*For any order larger than a small flat-rate box, we plan on using other boxes and ship by weight. Since key caps are light, this can substantially reduce the cost of shipping.
Remember, you won't be charged for shipping fee until your order has been packaged.

Estimated Shipping Costs
The pricing table below is the MAXIMUM shipping charge, could be cheaper at the end, depends on your actual order

Box Size	U.S.	Can.	Inter.
Small Priority Mail Box	$6	$20	$24
Medium Priority Mail Box	$13	$40	$60
Large Priority Mail Box	$17	$53	$78

How Many Keys Fit In A Box?
One set should fit in a Small Priorty Mail box. However, if you order more than one set, then you will more than likely need a Medium box. We expect that large orders will be reserved for vendors orders, like Techkeys, etc. 

Additional Fees
Each invoice will include PayPal fees and a $3 handling fee at maximum.

What About Proxies?
We're looking into it, but it depends on the number of orders coming from. Additional PayPal fees and complexity may negate the benefits of having a proxy.  We're still examining options though and should we choose to exercise that option, then you'll simply pay less in shipping.





New add-on kit
ErgoDox add-on kit (38 keys)
25 kits - $23.50
50 kits - $20.00



   + 4* 2x ROW2 GAW
   + 4* 1x ROW2 GAW
   + 12* 1x ROW4 VF
   + 6* 1x ROW3 VF
   + 10* 1.5x ROW3  VF
   + 2* 1.5x ROW2 GAW

[Tarzan]

Please add an ErgoDox kit to my order.

Thanks!

[jil_jil32]

Attention:

solem2308 have to give me the correct GH id and the paypal email address as soon as possible!!!




There're still many things to do so I will try to do it tomorrow. It's 4:15 AM here and I need to go to sleep.

[Glod]

Order Added

[madderoftime]

NM - just saw it in OP

[pasph]

Do you think my order will need a medium box?

[Elrick]

Do you think my order will need a medium box?

Same here for my order, just wondering if Medium is enough or go for the Large Baby?

[TheSoulhunter]

Inter. Small Priority Mail Box $24
Inter. Medium Priority Mail Box $60
How about using 2 small ones instead of 1 medium one?

[danielucf]

I was curious why 10 keys in the gamer set is $31 @ 25 kits and 22 keys in the 1.2 upgrade kit is only $1.40 more AND it includes larger than 1x keys which are normally more expensive? Ten 1x keys should always be cheaper than nineteen 1x keys, one 1.25x key, one 1.5x key, and one iso enter key with printing on the front (front printing costs additional money).

The gamer set seems like it should be closer in price to the VL kit if not cheaper since it uses only two colors instead of 12-14. You may want to get new quotes from Signature Plastics based off of the kit images.

...

[jil_jil32]

About the new ErgoDox add-on kit:



with
   + 12* 1x ROW4 VF
   + 6* 1x ROW3 VF

We can have the layouts like these for the thumb cluster (because blank ROW4 and blank ROW2 are identical)


Or:






@Lumune: Sorry, I'm afraid I can not add anything more than that. Before adding the ErgoDox kit, I was planning to add some separately kits for the deep-dish keys and doubleshot Lock keys. But there will be a mess if I add those very small kits so may be next time I will provide it at the first place.

@danielucf: The Gamer kit also has 4 front pad prints keys and those keys are expensive at the low quantity already. And the gamer kit has the new legends fee and art work fee baked in (not the Upgrade kit 02 because it contains many keys already). I think it will be much cheaper without the front padprints & with regular legends.

@pasph, Elrick, TheSoulhunter: To be honest, I don't have the absolute answer for you guys yet. I need mashby's help here for measuring to see how many keys shoud fit perfectly and safety inside one Small Box, because he's the guy handle it directly. But I can let you guy know these:
- After the GB ends, I will send mashby everyone's order info. He will have an idea how large your order is (how many keys etc.). Then he can estimate your shipping fee, based on the shipping info. document I sent him and his measurements with the actual box on his hand.
- The actual amount of shipping fee can be calculated only after mashby got the keys, sort it and pack it. But, because our GB is not much popular (sad), mashby's willing to use different box (not the flat-rate ones) and ship by weight for any order larger than a Small Box, so the price would be as low as possible for large order. You still have tracking number of course.

So please keep in mind this:
The minimum amount will be the small flat-rate box + handling fee + paypal fee.
The maximum amount will be the other flat-rate boxes + handling fee + paypal fee.
The actual shipping fee of the large order would be cheaper than the maximum amount. As low as possible, but still safe.

If anyone like TheSoulhunter wants to split the order into two boxes, let's decide it after you got the shipping fee calculated by mashby.
And if anyone prefer the order have shipped by flat-rate box to different box, no problem. I believe mashby has prepared very well for the distributing process.

I will ask mashby to see if you guy's order fit the Small Box or not. If you want to know, just post here. I'll be back to you later.

[Elrick]

@pasph, Elrick, TheSoulhunter:
- The actual amount of shipping fee can be calculated only after mashby got the keys, sort it and pack it. But, because our GB is not much popular (sad), mashby's willing to use different box (not the flat-rate ones) and ship by weight for any order larger than a Small Box, so the price would be as low as possible for large order. You still have tracking number of course.

Not particularly worried about the cost between the Medium and Large Sizes,  it's not that much more.

I would like just ONE box with all my key-caps because if I choose having two or more separate boxes with my luck,  I'll lose one or both during transit.  I'd rather only have one box to worry about.

Thanks for getting Mashby involved, although he may regret it in time  .

[mashby]

Sorry, but I'm not going to ship two small boxes. If your order doesn't fit in the small box, then you'll be getting a medium box. The medium box is 6" x 7" x 7" and can be found here. Unless you are placing a vendor sized order, I doubt that you'll need a Large Box.

As far as how many key caps fit in a box, it's really hard to say at this point because I don't know of any other SA sets that have been shipped in this manner. I found a thread where Ragnarock estimated about 300 1x1 key caps could fit into a small box, or approximately 3 TKL sets. I discussed this with tjcaustin and samwisekoi and both felt that was on the high side. Given the size and thickness difference of SA over DSA, I've dropped the estimate to 200 keys, or 1 full set. However, we won't know for sure until I have the key caps in hand.

A key thing to remember is that all of the shipping information is an estimate and we've erred on the high side because we don't want any surprises when your order is ready to ship. We are shipping by weight for anything larger than a small box because it will be much less expensive. Remember, key caps are light. It means more work on the shipping and handling end, but substantial cost savings so it's worth it. The only downside to shipping by weight is that it's hard to estimate because we don't have your order in hand so that we can weigh it.

Hope that helps and keep the questions coming. 

[pasph]

If you will ship by weight we, now, can't know how much it will be but can assume less than $60 for a medium box, right?

[danielucf]

In my opinion you really need to split the legends fees into all the kits they are included in. If you don't then I won't be ordering the gamer kit.

Look at it this way, why should a person buying the 22 key kit without the gamer kit get a free ride and all of he benefit of new legends without paying for the new legends at all.

[mashby]

If you will ship by weight we, now, can't know how much it will be but can assume less than $60 for a medium box, right?

That is correct.

I wish I could be more specific, but all I have to go on is anecdotal examples. The most expensive DSA Retro International order was 7bit's and it was less than $50. I don't know how large his order was, but it was the biggest and the most expensive to ship and it's less than the price quoted for a medium International box. 

The only way to give hard numbers was to use the flat-rate pricing, so that's what the estimates are using.

[Matt3o]

SA are huge keys, if we can fit 200 DSA I believe we can hardly fit 120 SA in a small box. I hope to be proven wrong.

[mashby]

SA are huge keys, if we can fit 200 DSA I believe we can hardly fit 120 SA in a small box. I hope to be proven wrong.

Yikes. Does anyone have a set that we could test? I'm going to ask those that got the SP Crap Bags if they can test.

[Tarzan]

SA are huge keys, if we can fit 200 DSA I believe we can hardly fit 120 SA in a small box. I hope to be proven wrong.

Yikes. Does anyone have a set that we could test? I'm going to ask those that got the SP Crap Bags if they can test.

I've got a set at home, probably 60+.  And lots of USPS Small boxes.  If no one else volunteers, I can pull them off their keyboard and stuff them in the box, see how many fit.

[mashby]

I've got a set at home, probably 60+.  And lots of USPS Small boxes.  If no one else volunteers, I can pull them off their keyboard and stuff them in the box, see how many fit.

Thanks Greystoke! I'll let you know if I don't get any responses to my request.

[Matt3o]

DSA vs SA... FIGHT!

[Photoelectric]

SA should be the short caps.  Then DSA would be like Doubled SA   Or I suppose you can think of ithem as the Dwarf SA, in the current naming convention

[danielucf]

Here is a small box full with 99 SA keys:



I would say it is around 75% full. Also there were a decent number of 1.5x size keys and only one or two 2x size, everything else is 1x size so not a very good representation of a real set.

[Tarzan]

Here is a small box full with 99 SA keys:

Show Image

Show Image

I would say it is around 75% full. Also there were a decent number of 1.5x size keys and only one or two 2x size, everything else is 1x size so not a very good representation of a real set.

So a Small box might fit about 65-75 of the larger caps?  Pretty sure I have about that many on the board at home, I'll post pics once I can test my guesstimate. 

[Photoelectric]

Is there a photo of SA caps on a Filco that anyone's aware of?  I'd like to see how tall they sit along the front and back of the keyboard.

[mashby]

Thanks for the photos Daniel, that is a huge help. SpAmRaY is doing a test for me as well, both with and without bubble wrap and then Greystoke is going doing his test, so we should have a good sampling between all three.

Based on Daniel's photos, I think Set 1 will fit in a small box, the question is wether or not any other sets will fit in there as well.