Filco numpad or Leopold Numpad?

[vivalarevolución]

In the market for a numpad, and I was wondering what thoughts you all on had these two numpads.  I know Filco usually has better quality, but I like the colors and big zero key on the Leopold more.  Thoughts for any users here about differences in quality?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leopold-210TP-Mechanical-number-Pad-Cherry-MX-Blue-Gravy-color-/301105804511?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item461b4df4df

and

http://www.keyboardco.com/keypad/filco-majestouch-tenkeypad-tactile-action-numberpad.asp

[varslot]

I don't use the numpad much these days, so my opinion might not be relevant for you.

I would go for looks over quality here, and the simplicity Leopold offers in their numpad is so appealing to me. No branding, led lights... It's just simply beautiful.

[vivalarevolución]

Ya know, I think that I am pretty dead set on that Leopold, but another thread on here has identified some problems with the numpad, and I am not sure if they have been resolved.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52780.0

[SirReallySam]

In the market for a numpad, and I was wondering what thoughts you all on had these two numpads.  I know Filco usually has better quality, but I like the colors and big zero key on the Leopold more.  Thoughts for any users here about differences in quality?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leopold-210TP-Mechanical-number-Pad-Cherry-MX-Blue-Gravy-color-/301105804511?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item461b4df4df

and

http://www.keyboardco.com/keypad/filco-majestouch-tenkeypad-tactile-action-numberpad.asp

I would go for the Filco if people have been having problems with the Leopold... Even though it does look nicer XD

[SpAmRaY]

Be sure and look into what codes these send if it matters to you, some of the numberpads send the number row codes not the numberpad codes.

[vivalarevolución]

Be sure and look into what codes these send if it matters to you, some of the numberpads send the number row codes not the numberpad codes.

It does matter quite a bit, because I like to use keyremap4macbook so I can use the nav functions on the numpad.  Qtan has a thread going on this exact thing because he sells the Leopold numpad, but it does not seem like he has used a key tester to check his stock.

Others have bought newer Leopold keypads and they said the new ones are sending numpad codes.

[daerid]

I would go with the Leopold. The Filco one I had sent number row codes, and Leopold seems to actually listen to customer feedback (since apparently the newer units send correct numpad codes).

[berserkfan]

may I suggest Genovation programmable pads? They are also Cherry MX, and seem to be going for a bit less on ebay.

[daerid]

may I suggest Genovation programmable pads? They are also Cherry MX, and seem to be going for a bit less on ebay.

Orly? What switches do they come with?

[vivalarevolución]

may I suggest Genovation programmable pads? They are also Cherry MX, and seem to be going for a bit less on ebay.

Those look nice, but are there any programmable ones with Cherry MX and big buttons?  I like my big butt(ons).

[QuadGMoto]

Ya know, I think that I am pretty dead set on that Leopold, but another thread on here has identified some problems with the numpad, and I am not sure if they have been resolved.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52780.0

Both the Filco and Leopold have the exact same issues with which key codes they send. In fact, I discovered that they also send the exact same vendor code, too.

While someone said that Leopold has apparently updated their units to send keypad codes, the unit I just received 2 days ago does not have that change. When I asked Elite Keyboards about it, they did a spot check of their inventory. They do not have any units that worked any differently. Maybe in a couple of months you will be able to get one that works "correctly", but it's not the case today.

I searching for an alternative to this unit, I was unable to find any that used Cherry blues, maybe a couple others that use cherry browns, and quite a few others that have other issues. So I worked on finding a workaround, which I did. You can read about it in this thread:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52632.0

My workaround is only for Mac OS, but its good enough that even applications that apparently read the codes directly can't tell that the keys have been remapped.

There are supposedly utilities that can remap keys via Windows registry hacks, but I have no idea whether or not they're as equally effective. Maybe someone else who has used one of those utilities can chime in on whether or not such a hack works under Windows.

[RESPRiT]

Ya know, I think that I am pretty dead set on that Leopold, but another thread on here has identified some problems with the numpad, and I am not sure if they have been resolved.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52780.0

Both the Filco and Leopold have the exact same issues with which key codes they send. In fact, I discovered that they also send the exact same vendor code, too.

While someone said that Leopold has apparently updated their units to send keypad codes, the unit I just received 2 days ago does not have that change. When I asked Elite Keyboards about it, they did a spot check of their inventory. They do not have any units that worked any differently. Maybe in a couple of months you will be able to get one that works "correctly", but it's not the case today.

I searching for an alternative to this unit, I was unable to find any that used Cherry blues, maybe a couple others that use cherry browns, and quite a few others that have other issues. So I worked on finding a workaround, which I did. You can read about it in this thread:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52632.0

My workaround is only for Mac OS, but its good enough that even applications that apparently read the codes directly can't tell that the keys have been remapped.

There are supposedly utilities that can remap keys via Windows registry hacks, but I have no idea whether or not they're as equally effective. Maybe someone else who has used one of those utilities can chime in on whether or not such a hack works under Windows.

From what I understand, EK doesn't have the new units yet, so you won't really find them anywhere but Asia for a bit.

[vivalarevolución]

Ya know, I think that I am pretty dead set on that Leopold, but another thread on here has identified some problems with the numpad, and I am not sure if they have been resolved.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52780.0

Both the Filco and Leopold have the exact same issues with which key codes they send. In fact, I discovered that they also send the exact same vendor code, too.

While someone said that Leopold has apparently updated their units to send keypad codes, the unit I just received 2 days ago does not have that change. When I asked Elite Keyboards about it, they did a spot check of their inventory. They do not have any units that worked any differently. Maybe in a couple of months you will be able to get one that works "correctly", but it's not the case today.

I searching for an alternative to this unit, I was unable to find any that used Cherry blues, maybe a couple others that use cherry browns, and quite a few others that have other issues. So I worked on finding a workaround, which I did. You can read about it in this thread:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52632.0

My workaround is only for Mac OS, but its good enough that even applications that apparently read the codes directly can't tell that the keys have been remapped.

There are supposedly utilities that can remap keys via Windows registry hacks, but I have no idea whether or not they're as equally effective. Maybe someone else who has used one of those utilities can chime in on whether or not such a hack works under Windows.

Ok thanks.  I checked out the thread and your custom xml file.  While that remap affect the number row on the keyboard as well, or just affect the keypad?

[QuadGMoto]

Ok thanks.  I checked out the thread and your custom xml file.  While that remap affect the number row on the keyboard as well, or just affect the keypad?

It only affects the keypad. The "device_only" entry restricts the affects to the device which sends the specified vendor code and product ID. Even another keypad from Leopold won't be affected if if the product ID is different.

[vivalarevolución]

Ok thanks.  I checked out the thread and your custom xml file.  While that remap affect the number row on the keyboard as well, or just affect the keypad?

It only affects the keypad. The "device_only" entry restricts the affects to the device which sends the specified vendor code and product ID. Even another keypad from Leopold won't be affected if if the product ID is different.

I have plans to order the Leopold keypad from Qtan off Ebay, so it might have a different product ID than the one from Elite Keyboards.  I will check that when it arrives.

[QuadGMoto]

I have plans to order the Leopold keypad from Qtan off Ebay, so it might have a different product ID than the one from Elite Keyboards.  I will check that when it arrives.

All 4 listed on eBay have the same basic model number and only vary in color and which switches are used. The product ID is unlikely to be different, so you should be in good shape. (You're using a Mac, right?)

If you need any help, feel free to ask.

[IPT]

Ya know, I think that I am pretty dead set on that Leopold, but another thread on here has identified some problems with the numpad, and I am not sure if they have been resolved.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52780.0

Both the Filco and Leopold have the exact same issues with which key codes they send. In fact, I discovered that they also send the exact same vendor code, too.

While someone said that Leopold has apparently updated their units to send keypad codes, the unit I just received 2 days ago does not have that change. When I asked Elite Keyboards about it, they did a spot check of their inventory. They do not have any units that worked any differently. Maybe in a couple of months you will be able to get one that works "correctly", but it's not the case today.

I searching for an alternative to this unit, I was unable to find any that used Cherry blues, maybe a couple others that use cherry browns, and quite a few others that have other issues. So I worked on finding a workaround, which I did. You can read about it in this thread:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52632.0

My workaround is only for Mac OS, but its good enough that even applications that apparently read the codes directly can't tell that the keys have been remapped.

There are supposedly utilities that can remap keys via Windows registry hacks, but I have no idea whether or not they're as equally effective. Maybe someone else who has used one of those utilities can chime in on whether or not such a hack works under Windows.

is your numberpad have this problem with Macs?
Because im just saying everything everyone's saying about the filco is that it has independent number pad lock for windows.

I don't have mine to test out, but when I get it back im gonna run it for a test.
Everything i read online and from my contact in Taiwan says Filco has the firmware that when you press the key, it hits numlock then it registers the keypress then untoggle numlock when you release the keypress.

[daerid]

I don't have mine to test out, but when I get it back im gonna run it for a test.
Everything i read online and from my contact in Taiwan says Filco has the firmware that when you press the key, it hits numlock then it registers the keypress then untoggle numlock when you release the keypress.

That's not what I observed at all. The actual low level scan codes sent by the num pad were the same ones sent by the number row, not the ones that windows recognizes as NUMPAD_* key presses.

[dustinhxc]

Love my Leo it is simple and clean looking.

[IPT]

I don't have mine to test out, but when I get it back im gonna run it for a test.
Everything i read online and from my contact in Taiwan says Filco has the firmware that when you press the key, it hits numlock then it registers the keypress then untoggle numlock when you release the keypress.

That's not what I observed at all. The actual low level scan codes sent by the num pad were the same ones sent by the number row, not the ones that windows recognizes as NUMPAD_* key presses.

does the low level scan codes recognize numlock key press?
I'm just saying keyboard co and everyone is saying it has independent num lock press.
The guy I asked about it in taiwan told me the reason why the leopold number pad was made that way along with the other ones is because if numlock is activated by default, it'll cause some keyboards especially on laptops to not work properly in the sense it thinks you're using the numberpad function on those keyboards (usually the right side of the keyboard alphas)
So thats why it registers numlock, hits the key, then shuts it off.  When num lock isn't on, its just standard 1-0 on the R4 row.

[QuadGMoto]

The actual low level scan codes sent by the num pad were the same ones sent by the number row, not the ones that windows recognizes as NUMPAD_* key presses.

That has been my observation as well. (On the Leopold.)

When the Num Lock is off, the keypad sends the navigation codes. (PAGEUP, PAGEDOWN, HOME, END, etc.)

[QuadGMoto]

does the low level scan codes recognize numlock key press?

My system is not showing any events when the numlock is pressed. It only toggles the codes sent by the number keys between numbers and navigation.

[daerid]

does the low level scan codes recognize numlock key press?
I'm just saying keyboard co and everyone is saying it has independent num lock press.
The guy I asked about it in taiwan told me the reason why the leopold number pad was made that way along with the other ones is because if numlock is activated by default, it'll cause some keyboards especially on laptops to not work properly in the sense it thinks you're using the numberpad function on those keyboards (usually the right side of the keyboard alphas)
So thats why it registers numlock, hits the key, then shuts it off.  When num lock isn't on, its just standard 1-0 on the R4 row.

I understand why it's done that way, what I'm saying is that that unfortunately makes it damn near useless for any function that requires the specific NUMPAD codes. Which makes it useless to me. I want a USB numpad that doesn't even know what the R4 row keycodes are.

[IPT]

does the low level scan codes recognize numlock key press?
I'm just saying keyboard co and everyone is saying it has independent num lock press.
The guy I asked about it in taiwan told me the reason why the leopold number pad was made that way along with the other ones is because if numlock is activated by default, it'll cause some keyboards especially on laptops to not work properly in the sense it thinks you're using the numberpad function on those keyboards (usually the right side of the keyboard alphas)
So thats why it registers numlock, hits the key, then shuts it off.  When num lock isn't on, its just standard 1-0 on the R4 row.

I understand why it's done that way, what I'm saying is that that unfortunately makes it damn near useless for any function that requires the specific NUMPAD codes. Which makes it useless to me. I want a USB numpad that doesn't even know what the R4 row keycodes are.

ok i just plugged in my filco pad and without numlock on it registers as follows according to aqua keytest:

Minus the print screen to take the screencap
interesting enough, "=" is done as this


Now when I press numlock, aquakey actually doesn't register anything but the numlock LED comes on for the pad.
But its recognized as Keypad presses


Now it shows the windows keypress for pressing say #1 on the keypad as windows key code 97 (0x61).

This is prob the least scientific way to show this, but i'm gonna use my razer naga's macro creator to show the button press

So yeah at least according to my pad, what is described by others is what is happening.
The filco sends then deactivates the numlock command for each key press.

Back to the equal key btw:

thought it was interesting.

Anyway yeah this is pretty much how I heard about it and how everyone reports the Filco operates.
I guess its still not a "natural" numberpad, but at least it isn't like the leopold in that it registers the R4 1-0.

Btw how the Filco operates is the same as how Razer's got their Naga programmed if you set it from R4 1-= to numberpad.
It'll toggle numlock for each button press.

[daerid]

It's still useless, as the whole NumLock trickery doesn't do a damn thing on a Mac. Which is where I need the NumPad the most. Using an inspection tool on the Mac, the scan codes for R4 numbers came through

[Britney Spears]

What about the Kinesis Low Force Keypad? It comes with Cherry Browns (admittedly not the most popular switch around here) and has a double wide zero key.



Has anybody checked what key codes it is sending?

[vivalarevolución]

What about the Kinesis Low Force Keypad? It comes with Cherry Browns (admittedly not the most popular switch around here) and has a double wide zero key.

Show Image

Has anybody checked what key codes it is sending?

I had no clue that came with Cherry Browns.  I thought it was rubber dome.  Guess that I did not read the product description well enough.

[Britney Spears]

I had no clue that came with Cherry Browns.  I thought it was rubber dome.  Guess that I did not read the product description well enough.

You are confusing the Freestyle2 Keypad which indeed has rubber domes with the Low-force Keypad which has Cherry Brown switches.

[vivalarevolución]

I had no clue that came with Cherry Browns.  I thought it was rubber dome.  Guess that I did not read the product description well enough.

You are confusing the Freestyle2 Keypad which indeed has rubber domes with the Low-force Keypad which has Cherry Brown switches.

Is that the only Mac-specific mechanical numberpad on the market?  Might be.

And what is the FN key on the Mac numpad supposed to do?

[Bucake]

do any of you guys know of a numpad which works exactly like the numpad of a fullsized keyboard?
(i mean that as in; sends the same codes a 'normal' one would..)

i've been looking for a numpad, but need one which sends the 'right' codes :/

[soloz2]

Is it Ok if they send the right key, but also a numlock code library before and after? That's how my Filco works. I don't have the Leopold I ordered yet... It's been a good 3 weeks now so I would imagine it should be any day now.

[atlas3686]

I have a leo that sends the correct codes and I really like it. Also comes with PBT caps and Filco does not. It is a really nice looking keypad.

[RESPRiT]

I have a leo that sends the correct codes and I really like it. Also comes with PBT caps and Filco does not. It is a really nice looking keypad.

Where/when did you buy yours?

[Novus]

I have a leo that sends the correct codes and I really like it. Also comes with PBT caps and Filco does not. It is a really nice looking keypad.

I have a leo that sends the correct codes and I really like it. Also comes with PBT caps and Filco does not. It is a really nice looking keypad.

Where/when did you buy yours?

+1
Where'd you get that?

[atlas3686]

I have a leo that sends the correct codes and I really like it. Also comes with PBT caps and Filco does not. It is a really nice looking keypad.

I have a leo that sends the correct codes and I really like it. Also comes with PBT caps and Filco does not. It is a really nice looking keypad.

Where/when did you buy yours?

+1
Where'd you get that?

Here is the story: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49242.msg1186306#msg1186306

Came from the Leopold online store, friend of mine bought it back for me from Seoul.

[Novus]

Cool!
Thanks.
I guess I'll be getting a Leopold numpad unless I find another numpad that has PBT keycaps or is topre (DAMN YOU REALFORCE)

[Bucake]

looks like Tang's stock of 210TPs doesn't send the correct input codes :/

i guess this is the one you have?
does http://www.leopold.co.kr/ ship internationally? if yes, could anyone help me order one (willing to pay for these services)?

also; the 210TP uses plate-mounted switches, right?

[RESPRiT]

I'm pretty sure Leopold doesn't ship internationally, so you'll need a proxy.

[QuadGMoto]

also; the 210TP uses plate-mounted switches, right?

Yes it does.

[Bucake]

Yes it does.

nice. thanks :j

I'm pretty sure Leopold doesn't ship internationally, so you'll need a proxy.

damn. i guess i'll forget about the keypad for now, then

edit: elitekeyboards states:

WARNING: The current batch of Leopold Tenkeypads do not output true Numberpad codes and is therefore not recommended for applications that require Numberpad code output. The keypad is still fully functional for numeric input and calculation.

- Made in Korea

..i guess only newer(?) korean batches send the correct codes. i wonder if the same goes for chinese batches..

[atlas3686]

Cool!
Thanks.
I guess I'll be getting a Leopold numpad unless I find another numpad that has PBT keycaps or is topre (DAMN YOU REALFORCE)

Probably a good choice, I actually really like the Leo numpad. I almost got a filco but wanted a white one to match my HHKB so decided on the Leo and very glad I did. It's very solid and really nice looking especially if you like a more minimal look. 

[Bucake]

Probably a good choice, I actually really like the Leo numpad. I almost got a filco but wanted a white one to match my HHKB so decided on the Leo and very glad I did. It's very solid and really nice looking especially if you like a more minimal look.

i agree!
i could've done without the top row, though and i'm not really a fan of the difference in colours between keycaps and body.
anyway, i just wish there were more sources to get it from. hopefully within the next few weeks/months the availability will increase a bit :j

btw; is the pbt rather thin on this? i can't tell for sure, but it looks quite thin on some pictures.

also, look at these awesome (aluminium?) bodies. pfff.
man, i want that dark grey one..

[atlas3686]

Probably a good choice, I actually really like the Leo numpad. I almost got a filco but wanted a white one to match my HHKB so decided on the Leo and very glad I did. It's very solid and really nice looking especially if you like a more minimal look.

i agree!
i could've done without the top row, though and i'm not really a fan of the difference in colours between keycaps and body.
anyway, i just wish there were more sources to get it from. hopefully within the next few weeks/months the availability will increase a bit :j

btw; is the pbt rather thin on this? i can't tell for sure, but it looks quite thin on some pictures.

also, look at these awesome (aluminium?) bodies. pfff.
man, i want that dark grey one..

Definitely thin PBT but not crazy, seems very similar to my Ducky PBT keys.

[QuadGMoto]

btw; is the pbt rather thin on this? i can't tell for sure, but it looks quite thin on some pictures.

I think it is pretty thin. I have mine next a TECK that has ABS keycaps. Both have WASD red o-rings installed. Both have Cherry Blue switches. Oddly, though the Leopold has the higher quality, more durable keycaps, it produces the impression of being cheaper. Each key I type on the keypad produces an unpleasant ping sound, which is the keycap ringing like a bell. By comparison, the ABS keycaps on the TECK don't do that, which makes the keycaps seem to be higher quality. I even confirmed this perception by taking one of each keycap (similar profile) and dropping them lightly on my desktop. The PBT one definitely "rings" more.

Do thicker PBT caps avoid this?

[Novus]

Has anybody compared the build quality of Filco and Leopold side by side (I mean aside from the numberpad code snafu)?
I swear, why does it always end up being Filco vs Leopold for me every single time :/
It's like other companies don't even exist.

[atlas3686]

I have 2 Filco boards and the Leo numpad and I wouldn't say either of them is inferior they are both really well made, Filco doesn't come with PBT though and I do prefer the more minimal look of the Leo numpad compared to the Filco.

[absfac]

Are you looking for a numpad because you want to pair it with a TKL board? Have you looked into the QuickFire TK? It's roughly the size of a TKL and has an integrated numpad. The layout's quirky and IMO the design's a bit loud with the stock caps but if you're hurting that badly for a numpad...

(Obviously this won't help if you prefer a 60% or exotic layout, or if you want your numpad on the left.)

[Novus]

Are you looking for a numpad because you want to pair it with a TKL board? Have you looked into the QuickFire TK? It's roughly the size of a TKL and has an integrated numpad. The layout's quirky and IMO the design's a bit loud with the stock caps but if you're hurting that badly for a numpad...

(Obviously this won't help if you prefer a 60% or exotic layout, or if you want your numpad on the left.)

WTF?

[absfac]

Are you looking for a numpad because you want to pair it with a TKL board? Have you looked into the QuickFire TK? It's roughly the size of a TKL and has an integrated numpad. The layout's quirky and IMO the design's a bit loud with the stock caps but if you're hurting that badly for a numpad...

(Obviously this won't help if you prefer a 60% or exotic layout, or if you want your numpad on the left.)

WTF?

Not sure what's so confusing. I was suggesting replacing a TKL entirely with a TK, instead of trying to pair a TKL with a numpad, if that's what OP was trying to do. I assume OP wasn't just looking to plug a numpad into the computer by itself, or alongside a full-size keyboard.

[Novus]

Are you looking for a numpad because you want to pair it with a TKL board? Have you looked into the QuickFire TK? It's roughly the size of a TKL and has an integrated numpad. The layout's quirky and IMO the design's a bit loud with the stock caps but if you're hurting that badly for a numpad...

(Obviously this won't help if you prefer a 60% or exotic layout, or if you want your numpad on the left.)

WTF?

Not sure what's so confusing. I was suggesting replacing a TKL entirely with a TK, instead of trying to pair a TKL with a numpad, if that's what OP was trying to do. I assume OP wasn't just looking to plug a numpad into the computer by itself, or alongside a full-size keyboard.

I'm afraid I don't quite follow.
Re: Filco numpad or Leopold Numpad?
Clearly, the OP was asking us to describe the merits of ergodox, convince him to adopt the dvorak layout and maximize his workspace productivity.