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geekhack Marketplace => Group Buys and Preorders => Topic started by: Ellipse on Wed, 27 January 2016, 21:52:59

Title: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 27 January 2016, 21:52:59
2021 update / current status:

Still time to customize your Brand New Model F Keyboard at www.ModelFKeyboards.com !

Success!  Brand New Model F Keyboards finished production and started shipping at the end of 2019.  So far more than 700 F62 and F77 keyboards have shipped.  The first batch of dye sublimated new Model F XT quality keycaps started shipping in Feb. 2021.

Take a look at the most recent postings in this thread for the latest updates and discussion!


The web site is a go! Time to order your Brand New Model F Keyboard!  $1.3 million + in orders so far (as of early 2021)!

older updates, 6/23/18 and prior

Please head to http://www.ModelFkeyboards.com to place your order! In general, keyboards ship out by the timestamp of your order - first in, first out!

I am updating this post using one of the fully tested prototype F77's!

Complete production status update 6-3-17 with photos and descriptions of how each part works:
https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/uncategorized/what-makes-up-a-model-f-keyboard-detailed-production-status-of-each-part/

SUMMARY OF EVERYTHING THIS BUY INCLUDES
* Basic keyboard models:  F62, F77, Ultra Compact F62, Ultra Compact F77
* One-piece XT-style keycaps made from new molds, including Industrial SSK style blue keys - extra sets are also available separately
* Extra parts also available separately including Model F (AT) compatible barrels, flippers, cases, PCBs, inner foam, and inner assemblies
* Available layouts:  ANSI:  US and HHKB style with split backspace and regular non-split backspace.  ISO:  Vertical enter with a variety of international layout variants:  Spanish, German, Nordic, French, UK, etc.

IN PRODUCTION
* Ultra compact cases
* keys
* buckling springs

PRODUCTION TO START RIGHT BEFORE ASSEMBLY IS DONE
* Boxes / outside foam packaging

FINISHED PRODUCTION
* Die cast zinc cases (powdercoating is done too - the die cast cases are all finished!)
* key molds
* barrels
* inner foam
* Inner assembly plates
* flippers
* capacitive PCBs
* compact xwhatsit controllers
* case molds
* ribbon cables (to connect controllers to capacitive PCBs)

SHIPPED TO ME
* Current plan is for everything to be finished and shipped to me around mid-year.

ORDERS LOCKED
* Cases and other parts have been ordered, so please no major changes!

STILL CAN BE ORDERED
* Everything.  I have ordered extra keyboards and parts for the early bird round, which will be ongoing while supplies last.  Then there will be a final round for about a month after the early bird keyboards are delivered.

F62/F77 Prototype testing, brief teardown, and sound comparisons with original IBM keyboards

F62 / F77 features:
Only new parts will be used - not New Old Stock or used part pulls from other keyboards (you can use your original IBM/Lexmark/Unicomp caps - they will be compatible)
Metal top and metal bottom case, like the original
Metal top and metal bottom inner "sandwich" plates with interlocking tabs, like the original
Model F barrels and full-size capacitive flippers, all injection molded for accuracy/durability (not 3D printed)
2 mm foam like in my original F77
Ships fully assembled at no extra charge - no further soldering will be required. You will put on the feet though!
Cork-rubber feet, plus a small selection of rubber feet (cork-rubber feet like the PC XT Model F keyboard)
Top and bottom case powdercoated in a color similar to the original "off white/beige" color, black, or similar to industrial gray (or you can pick your own color and pay extra for tooling)
New buckling springs made to original Model F spring tolerances (ideally)
Keys to be sourced from Unicomp (or you can provide your own keys). To use brand new one-piece dye sub keys instead, someone else would need to take on production of the keys.
Layouts can be adjusted at the factory, or you can adjust them later for international versions
Metal tabs attached to the top inner assembly for the Model M style spacebar stabilizer wire - no plastic pieces like in the original
Packed like a new keyboard: in two custom white EPS foam shells and in a close-fitting brown double-walled cardboard box
Fully assembled in China
10 foot monoprice USB cable with ferrite core
Extra barrels (AT-style) and capacitive flippers will be produced and made available for purchase separately (for other projects and for replacement parts)
Any other suggestions?

After everyone interested has placed their order and sent payment, please be aware that it will be several months before your order arrives.

Working Prototype photos:
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Title: Re: F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 28 January 2016, 21:41:00
Approval bump.  :thumb:
Title: Re: F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Zapheo on Thu, 28 January 2016, 21:42:55
Can't wait to put in my order! :D
Title: Re: F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 28 January 2016, 22:26:21
The MOST perfect example of a Buckling Spring mechanism you could buy in 2016   :thumb: .

This leaves every other previously made versions for dead, plus this model is made for long term usage compared to most other keyboards that eventually get tossed in the bin.

You buy this for keeps and don't ever need to worry about wear and tear because this baby is made to last for decades ahead.
Title: Re: F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: romevi on Thu, 28 January 2016, 22:31:18
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Thu, 28 January 2016, 22:55:17
and now we wait!!!
Title: Re: F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Rewind on Thu, 28 January 2016, 22:58:13
I haven´t been in the keyboard game for a while, but this blows my mind. Great work Ellipse!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 28 January 2016, 23:21:57
Thanks all!

Just a note for those just finding out now about the project, the main project thread was in the Interest Checks section, before this project became a group buy - over 40,000 page views on that thread and hundreds of posts!  There is a lot of excitement with this project because it is the very first project to put back into production the Model F capacitive buckling spring keyboard, a strong alternative to the Cherry MX mechanical keyswitch which for a while was the only possible major mechanical switch you could build a custom keyboard with.

Now I have finally opened up orders on www.modelfkeyboards.com after collaborating for about a year with the DT, GH, reddit community and other keyboard enthusiasts to perfect the Brand New Model F keyboard project.  It has been two days since the group buy started and already we have over 50 of the 235 interested DT/GH/reddit users place their order, many of them interested in reserving a specific serial number for their boards, along with many who did not sign the interest form or are not even DT/GH/reddit members and remember how good their old IBM keyboard was. 

While I don't remember except looking back at the old home movies, our first family computer was the IBM PC XT (not sure which model) and its IBM Model F keyboard!  It's amazing that while just about everything else in the computing world has improved exponentially, thousands of serious computer users around the world, including book authors, journalists, and programmers, still hold on to and use daily their 20+ year old IBM buckling spring keyboards that are still as robust as ever.

Unfortunately this is a limited time project at this point, not something that you can buy from web stores after the group buy ends, but I am in talks with others who are thinking about ordering a few dozen extra units to sell at a higher price once the group buy ends. 

So if you want to consider ordering a brand new Model F keyboard made this year, I suggest doing so soon before the group buy ends!  The prototypes are fully functional and I will be holding keyboard meetups in Manhattan for anyone interested in checking them out! 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ika on Fri, 29 January 2016, 00:24:17
Is there an example of the black color case?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: bocahgundul on Fri, 29 January 2016, 00:29:58
Will wait for the regular round cause I don't have any money left now  :p

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: stoic-lemon on Fri, 29 January 2016, 00:32:28
I caved at the very end for GMK Hyperfuse and Carbon, so I won't discount a similar situation here. This is just too amazing a project to miss.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: fanpeople on Fri, 29 January 2016, 00:33:59
This is a good set up, instead of double tapping two of these I can order f77 now before the deadline and then an f62 in the next couple of months.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 29 January 2016, 06:43:23
Ika sorry there is no example of the black case.  It will be black and will be powdercoated in the original textured powdercoating like the originals had, but just in black.

Black is one of the most popular options from what I have seen in the orders.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Jedi on Fri, 29 January 2016, 08:15:43
Hey Ellipse, if zinc is still an option (thought I saw this somewhere in an IC), put me down please.  I want the heaviest mf out there.  Love my aluminum cases on my TKLs, they're solid like a tank, nothing like old skool to go a clackin with
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: mobbo on Fri, 29 January 2016, 08:24:48
I did a really bad job of rationing my funds for this project while it was in development.  :))
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ImAWildDeer on Fri, 29 January 2016, 10:12:48
Ika sorry there is no example of the black case.  It will be black and will be powdercoated in the original textured powdercoating like the originals had, but just in black.

Black is one of the most popular options from what I have seen in the orders.

I was really into the thought of industrial grey, but then I remembered Snoopy's kish https://imgur.com/a/48jd1
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Fri, 29 January 2016, 10:13:02
I need to order this soon!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: fanpeople on Fri, 29 January 2016, 11:05:34
I did a really bad job of rationing my funds for this project while it was in development.  :))

Just redraw on your morgage, personal loan or credit card.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 29 January 2016, 16:36:13
cswanic - all the regular cases will be either zinc or aluminum.  I would like the cases to be the extra-nice zinc which feels more hefty than aluminum (though both aluminum case prototype F62/F77 keyboards are still solid-feeling and heavy!). 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Jedi on Fri, 29 January 2016, 17:43:59
This is a good set up, instead of double tapping two of these I can order f77 now before the deadline and then an f62 in the next couple of months.

That's a very good point. I have a feeling I'll be back for more once the first one gets shipped.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Fri, 29 January 2016, 17:47:24
Can't decide between classic beige and industrial grey.  ??? :))
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Fri, 29 January 2016, 17:48:47
Oh and sorry if this has been covered in the IC thread, but the two buttons between Ctrl and Alt are functional, yes?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: romevi on Fri, 29 January 2016, 18:04:22
Can't decide between classic beige and industrial grey.  ??? :))

Industrial gray. Beige already existed.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: fanpeople on Fri, 29 January 2016, 18:07:01
Can't decide between classic beige and industrial grey.  ??? :))

Industrial gray. Beige already existed.


Everyone get black or beige, that way you can all drool over my industrial grey.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 29 January 2016, 18:52:42
Hashbaz yes the button b/w ctrl and alt on each side of the spacebar is functional and can be set to any key or macro/modifier function through the GUI.  For example I set the key b/w right alt and right ctrl as a function layer key, so that pressing Fn+1 gives me F1, Fn+2 gives me F2, etc.

Unicomp offers Mac/Apple Option/Alt/Command keys which are shown installed on my new Model F keyboard here:  http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/command-option-keys/

You can also put a windows key there with the old fashioned windows logo, and a right click 1U menu key on the other side's blank key - these keys are included (no extra charge) in each regular pearl/pebble printed ANSI Unicomp key set and maybe other sets as well.

Quite a few people are buying the case in another color to the one they ordered with the keyboard because you won't be able to order them after the group buy ends most likely (I have asked those with distributor contacts to reach out and see if anyone wants to order extra units to stock them in their store, but so far no responses except for some forum members who are thinking of buying extras to offer them at a premium price after the group buy ends, so that they will be available to those discovering the keyboard after the GB main round closes).
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: fanpeople on Fri, 29 January 2016, 19:20:48
I dont know if it has been mentioned you can also get keys with 'fn' printed they would be good for those keys between ctrl and alt if they were being used as function keys. Well technically you can get almost any word as long as its not too long. You may just have to remind unicomp that they can do it as there seems to be a disconnect between their sales staff and the cap printer. Then again last time i ordered from unicomp was over a year i believe. Either way i am just wondering if it would be an idea for those getting caps that want them to get fn keys as opposed to blanks. I already have keys so its not really worrying me.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Fri, 29 January 2016, 19:36:19
:eek:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Pemdas on Fri, 29 January 2016, 20:24:08
Quite a few people are buying the case in another color to the one they ordered with the keyboard because you won't be able to order them after the group buy ends

I was actually thinking of changing my order to add on a black case cause I'm having a really hard time between the two. How would the numbering go for that? Are the serial numbers per pcb or per case?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 29 January 2016, 21:05:32
to keep things simple, serials are per product line and per full keyboard ordered - F62 is one product line and F77 is the other

If you order one keyboard and one spare case, I'd expect to put an identical label on both cases so you can switch between them.  Or maybe no label on the second case.  Not sure yet.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Pemdas on Fri, 29 January 2016, 22:13:03
to keep things simple, serials are per product line and per full keyboard ordered - F62 is one product line and F77 is the other

If you order one keyboard and one spare case, I'd expect to put an identical label on both cases so you can switch between them.  Or maybe no label on the second case.  Not sure yet.

Awesome, personally I would much prefer the same label on both rather than the blank option  ;)

I'll PM you with my changes when I'm sure I have every decision locked in  :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 30 January 2016, 21:22:45
We have our first important issue (cross-posted onto both IC and GB threads for completeness) :(

Unfortunately PayPal has locked my funds as a security precaution (?) given the $30,000+ that came in from the first few days of accepting orders. 

Orders are still being accepted through PayPal without issue, so please do get in your order if you haven't already! 

I am going to speak with them ASAP and try to resolve it but this could cause a hassle.

I have already fully disclosed to them the product web site, nature of the project, and the increased expected business levels.

It seems like they often release funds only after they are exposed publicly about the specific case and someone has made a noise about the issue by posting about it on a blog.

If anyone has any experience or advice dealing with PayPal or any contacts there, or can offer specific help in another way please let me know. 

I don't expect this to put us off schedule though, because at the very worst if it comes down to it, I may need to cancel the PayPal funds and accept payments over credit card or check (your order is not being canceled!  This is just the worst-case scenario).  It will be inconvenient for everyone unfortunately if this turns out to be the case but we don't have to use PayPal to accept payment online.  I'll keep everyone posted though.

So far about 25% of the interest form has paid and many have ordered more keyboards than what they put down in the form - a good thing!  The web site has slowed down from the increased traffic but it is still holding up well.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ika on Sat, 30 January 2016, 22:14:57
We have our first important issue (cross-posted onto both IC and GB threads for completeness) :(

Unfortunately PayPal has locked my funds as a security precaution (?) given the $30,000+ that came in from the first few days of accepting orders. 

Orders are still being accepted through PayPal without issue, so please do get in your order if you haven't already! 

I am going to speak with them ASAP and try to resolve it but this could cause a hassle.

I have already fully disclosed to them the product web site, nature of the project, and the increased expected business levels.

It seems like they often release funds only after they are exposed publicly about the specific case and someone has made a noise about the issue by posting about it on a blog.

If anyone has any experience or advice dealing with PayPal or any contacts there, or can offer specific help in another way please let me know. 

I don't expect this to put us off schedule though, because at the very worst if it comes down to it, I may need to cancel the PayPal funds and accept payments over credit card or check (your order is not being canceled!  This is just the worst-case scenario).  It will be inconvenient for everyone unfortunately if this turns out to be the case but we don't have to use PayPal to accept payment online.  I'll keep everyone posted though.

So far about 25% of the interest form has paid and many have ordered more keyboards than what they put down in the form - a good thing!  The web site has slowed down from the increased traffic but it is still holding up well.

Talk to radio_killah and ghostjuggernaut, they dealt with this issue when they were running GMK RGBYK. It could be a major issue.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Porsche on Sun, 31 January 2016, 04:48:48
@Ellipse
Good to be in this GB.
Color choices make me really hard to choose :p Finally I decided to go to black.
I would like to receive F77 asap. Also I left a note in my order so please let me know.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Sun, 31 January 2016, 06:14:21
I dont know if it has been mentioned you can also get keys with 'fn' printed they would be good for those keys between ctrl and alt if they were being used as function keys.

Would like to know that as well.

Would like the standard windows key on the left (in between Control and Alt - Left side) and the other side with a single FN key (in between Control and Alt - Right side).

Ellipse please let us know if this is possible with this keyboard order or would we need to buy these two keys separately off Unicomp's website?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ctm on Sun, 31 January 2016, 08:00:14
Does F62 includes an Esc keycap?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 31 January 2016, 12:14:45
Thanks Porsche I responded to your PM.  Your keyboard will be one of the first that I test and put in the mail!

Yes I have an example Fn key in pearl shown on the F77 keyboard on modelfkeyboards.com.  You can also get Unicomp to print a pebble Fn key.

Elrick the Windows key will be included because Unicomp includes that key with their key sets.  For the extra Fn key, please add 1 unit of the product "other customizations ($1 increments)" and put in a note that it is for a Fn key from Unicomp in (pearl/pebble) color.

ctm everyone who orders a key set will be getting all of the keys that Unicomp sends me (they usually send the full 104 key set).  If you order an original Model F/Model M key set you'll also get all the keys that originally came from that set.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ctm on Sun, 31 January 2016, 13:35:13
Elrick the Windows key will be included because Unicomp includes that key with their key sets.  For the extra Fn key, please add 1 unit of the product "other customizations ($1 increments)" and put in a note that it is for a Fn key from Unicomp in (pearl/pebble) color.
Does Unicomp has fn keycap? I can't find it on their website.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: fanpeople on Sun, 31 January 2016, 14:58:13
Elrick the Windows key will be included because Unicomp includes that key with their key sets.  For the extra Fn key, please add 1 unit of the product "other customizations ($1 increments)" and put in a note that it is for a Fn key from Unicomp in (pearl/pebble) color.
Does Unicomp has fn keycap? I can't find it on their website.

See bottom row, that fn key came from unicomp.

edit: you may have to tilt your head 90 degrees.

[attach=1]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 31 January 2016, 14:59:49
ctm yes you just order printed key cap option and type in Fn for the choice of legend.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: kennardsmith on Mon, 01 February 2016, 02:22:17
oh my god I hadn't realized there was a HHKB layout… now to pick colors ugh
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 01 February 2016, 02:35:13
oh my god I hadn't realized there was a HHKB layout… now to pick colors ugh
go with industrial color  :p
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hoggy on Mon, 01 February 2016, 07:22:30
Pulled the trigger on one a couple of days back. 

I think this project is an amazing achievement.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Limewirelord on Mon, 01 February 2016, 12:10:41
Excited to have this eventually.  I'm in during the second round unfortunately  :'(
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 01 February 2016, 19:18:08
wow - after not even the first week of ordering, almost one-third of those who filled out the interest form have already placed their orders on ModelFkeyboards.com!  We still have the rest of this month to take care of everyone else. 

Has anyone encountered any problems or errors on the project web site?  Does anyone need to pay with a credit card or check and prefers not to go through PayPal.com's guest checkout (no registration required)?  Please let me know and I will look into other options.

As an update I contacted two GH members that ika recommended I contact regarding advice for PayPal and I have contacted a manager at PayPal whom some online project managers said helped them with their own frozen PayPal assets.

I have noticed a lot of people ordering extra F77 and F62 cases.  I guess people want to be able to have both cases before these go out of production.  After that you would need to buy a whole keyboard in another case color to get the alternate color :)

Also the black case / black keys is a popular option.

And thanks hoggy and Limewirelord!  Glad you are excited.  I continue to type on the brand new Industrial F77 prototype and over the past week the springs have loosened up to make them even more more closely comparable with an original Model F.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 02 February 2016, 04:50:25
wow - after not even the first week of ordering, almost one-third of those who filled out the interest form have already placed their orders on ModelFkeyboards.com!  We still have the rest of this month to take care of everyone else. 

Has anyone encountered any problems or errors on the project web site?  Does anyone need to pay with a credit card or check and prefers not to go through PayPal.com's guest checkout (no registration required)?  Please let me know and I will look into other options.

As an update I contacted two GH members that ika recommended I contact regarding advice for PayPal and I have contacted a manager at PayPal whom some online project managers said helped them with their own frozen PayPal assets.

I have noticed a lot of people ordering extra F77 and F62 cases.  I guess people want to be able to have both cases before these go out of production.  After that you would need to buy a whole keyboard in another case color to get the alternate color :)

Also the black case / black keys is a popular option.

And thanks hoggy and Limewirelord!  Glad you are excited.  I continue to type on the brand new Industrial F77 prototype and over the past week the springs have loosened up to make them even more more closely comparable with an original Model F.
I want to join the early bird but I don't have anymore money left for keyboard purchase and thank you ellipse for making second round for guy like me  :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: nickheller on Tue, 02 February 2016, 10:06:41
gonna be ordering sooner or later, deciding on color..
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: tassadarforaiur on Tue, 02 February 2016, 10:41:18
so ellipse, considering that this is likely going to be our only chance  to own a new model f, what parts should we be most worried about wearing out, and can extra's of those significantly outlast the parts that are installed in an actively used board? mainly thinking foam when I ask this, but it might apply to more parts.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ryahirv on Tue, 02 February 2016, 11:49:48
Are we supposed to be asking questions in here or the Interest Check thread?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Air tree on Tue, 02 February 2016, 15:56:54
I'm getting some extra cash before the months up, so I'll be placing an order soon.  :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: romevi on Tue, 02 February 2016, 15:59:01
Are we supposed to be asking questions in here or the Interest Check thread?

The IC is still open? That seems redundant. I figured here as this is the official GB thread.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ryahirv on Tue, 02 February 2016, 16:09:01
Are we supposed to be asking questions in here or the Interest Check thread?

The IC is still open? That seems redundant. I figured here as this is the official GB thread.

yep!  With far more activity than here also
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 02 February 2016, 16:49:14
Nice Air Tree!  Yes quite a few people are waiting to get their finances in order this month and possibly sell off other lesser-used keyboards before placing an order before the 2/29 deadline. 

nick I recommend a case of each color if you can't decide on one!  Many are ordering a spare case or two because no one has volunteered to stock inventory.  If your case powdercoating gets damaged or full of indelible ink somehow (maybe a Pilot Precise V5 leak?  Yep I've had that happen before!) you will be glad you had an extra case.

romevi I recommend we keep questions specific to the group buy here (order status, discussing options, arranging shipping proxies to reduce costs) and general questions about new Model F keyboard development and features in the IC thread - like my future plans for a smaller aluminum case for the F62 and possibly the F77.

tassadarforaiur - I do not know which parts are likely to fail first in the decades to come.  Assuming component longevity is similar to originals, I would suggest getting extra flippers and springs at a minimum, and maybe extra inner foam as those components wear out most during usage.  I also recommend a spare Unicomp key cap set.  Even PBT keys wear down and become smooth over time.  This is not a guarantee, but I hope to include a few extra springs with everyone's order if there are any left over after the factory's and later my quality control checks.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Tue, 02 February 2016, 17:30:37
Assuming component longevity is similar to originals, I would suggest getting extra flippers and springs at a minimum, and maybe extra inner foam as those components wear out most during usage.

Most here won't have just this keyboard in their possession but have hundreds all waiting to be used one day.  This keyboard shall be parked to the side just like an American Sportscar and only taken out once or twice a year to experience it's inputting glory that is unlike every other keyboard ever made.

This art piece shall be kept and admired each and every day, plus just knowing you have this keyboard under your roof makes life more pleasurable  8) .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 02 February 2016, 21:52:22
Elrick will you not be using this keyboard to its full Industrial-strength potential every single day???  It should be able to withstand daily usage for a few decades! 

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 03 February 2016, 00:44:50
Elrick will you not be using this keyboard to its full Industrial-strength potential every single day???

It'll be connected to one PC, like so many in the house but it'll be seldom used since I'll be mostly working off site every fortnight.

Don't worry, this baby won't be packed away forever, it'll be used between working shifts, until I arrive back home to witness it's full beauty  ;) .

I'll try and convince the Mrs to use it whilst I'm away but she has her own favorite PC setup for internet shopping.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: fanpeople on Wed, 03 February 2016, 01:40:47
I'm getting some extra cash before the months up, so I'll be placing an order soon.  :)

Is your secret to extra money drugs?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 01:51:56
Assuming component longevity is similar to originals, I would suggest getting extra flippers and springs at a minimum, and maybe extra inner foam as those components wear out most during usage.

Most here won't have just this keyboard in their possession but have hundreds all waiting to be used one day.  This keyboard shall be parked to the side just like an American Sportscar and only taken out once or twice a year to experience it's inputting glory that is unlike every other keyboard ever made.

This art piece shall be kept and admired each and every day, plus just knowing you have this keyboard under your roof makes life more pleasurable  8) .

Elrick will you not be using this keyboard to its full Industrial-strength potential every single day???  It should be able to withstand daily usage for a few decades! 



Haha speak for yourself Elrick, my F62 is gonna be my daily driver at home for years to come, I will probably rotate it with my 87u 55g once in a while just because I love the 55g topre feels too. After seeing all the F77 pics I wish I had extra finances to get one of those as well, they are much nicer then I originally thought.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 03 February 2016, 04:33:45
After seeing all the F77 pics I wish I had extra finances to get one of those as well, they are much nicer then I originally thought.

The F77 is the ONLY Model-F to buy.

You youngsters always after smaller and smaller keyboards, just don't get that type of mentality any more .........  :p
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 03 February 2016, 10:16:48
For once I agree with Elrick. :))

F77 is the way to go here.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Wed, 03 February 2016, 13:47:34
After seeing all the F77 pics I wish I had extra finances to get one of those as well, they are much nicer then I originally thought.

The F77 is the ONLY Model-F to buy.

You youngsters always after smaller and smaller keyboards, just don't get that type of mentality any more .........  :p

For once I agree with Elrick. :))

F77 is the way to go here.


Damn guys why are you doing this to me :) Wallethack living up to its name  :)) Maybe I can get enough together to get one on the later round.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: fanpeople on Thu, 04 February 2016, 02:42:37
Order 1 of 2 placed

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 04 February 2016, 04:26:23
Damn guys why are you doing this to me :) Wallethack living up to its name  :)) Maybe I can get enough together to get one on the later round.

It's the nature of Group Buys and this baby isn't going to be available ALWAYS.  Ellipse is right that some scumbags will buy up big here and then put it on Ebay for $1600USD each, later on.

Best time to buy this rare keyboard is NOW so don'rt wait for any fantasy price drops because it won't happen.  Once all the hardware is bought there is no re-do on all the gear later on down the track, 2016 is the last and only year you'll get to own a BRAND NEW Model-F Keyboard.

Would rather spend my money on this keyboard than get another Cherry MX or Thorpie model.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Thu, 04 February 2016, 04:49:47
Damn guys why are you doing this to me :) Wallethack living up to its name  :)) Maybe I can get enough together to get one on the later round.

It's the nature of Group Buys and this baby isn't going to be available ALWAYS.  Ellipse is right that some scumbags will buy up big here and then put it on Ebay for $1600USD each, later on.

Best time to buy this rare keyboard is NOW so don'rt wait for any fantasy price drops because it won't happen.  Once all the hardware is bought there is no re-do on all the gear later on down the track, 2016 is the last and only year you'll get to own a BRAND NEW Model-F Keyboard.

Would rather spend my money on this keyboard than get another Cherry MX or Thorpie model.

Agree with everything you just said, I wasn't planning on buying any more keyboards until this came along  :)) I just mean buy on the later ordering round and not the early bird, that will give me a few months to try get some cash together and hopefully see an improvement in my exchange rate. I don't expect any of these to be available after this buy at anything close to reasonable prices.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Muramasa on Thu, 04 February 2016, 08:44:38
Just a quick question about the F62 options, Color: Industrial Gray, Is this the same case color as the Gray F77 posted here?

Thanks
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Thu, 04 February 2016, 12:55:13
Any word on the Paypal situation?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: AKmalamute on Thu, 04 February 2016, 13:23:16
Placed my order for parts to make (eventually) an ergodox-style thing. then read page two where I find out PP is being dumb, yet again.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Thu, 04 February 2016, 13:36:14
Just a quick question about the F62 options, Color: Industrial Gray, Is this the same case color as the Gray F77 posted here?

Thanks

Yes it is although that F77 is a prototype and the colour might still be tweaked slightly.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Vittra on Thu, 04 February 2016, 14:04:50
Ellipse - thank you for all your work in making this a reality. Another victim of the Paypal 180 day hold it seems :(. I'm sure things will get worked out prior to that though.

I'm currently researching exactly what I want, but it will be a F77 no doubt.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: dgreekstallion on Thu, 04 February 2016, 15:56:48
Oh my god. THank you for this.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 04 February 2016, 19:47:29
The Brand New Model F orders are thankfully still coming in - we just crossed the $40,000 mark in orders today!  Very impressive for the first week!  I was expecting about $100,000 based on current order interest over the entire 5 month period so this is a good start to the project.

Muramasa the gray will be similar to the IBM Industrial SSK gray, which in my view is a greenish gray.  The prototype colors will not be exactly the same as the production colors.

But yes you can get any of the 3 colors (gray, off-white, black) on either of the F62 and F77 keyboards.

hashbaz the senior exec has not been willing to help so far.  I have escalated the issue to their Executive Escalations team. 

AKmalamute do not worry - PayPal has not shut off order acceptance.  I hope to resolve this issue ASAP.

I have already been contacted by some sites offering to review the keyboard and interview me regarding the project! 

Also there are two German tech news sites with articles up already.  It's pretty clear by the user comments that they did not read the web site and just looked at the photo on the web site of an old-style looking keyboard and saw the price and made their remarks only based on that :(

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Tastaturen-Hardware-255538/News/IBM-Model-F-Neuauflage-kaufen-1185232/
http://www.computerbase.de/2016-02/mechanische-tastatur-ibm-model-f-wird-ab-325-us-dollar-erneut-produziert/
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Fri, 05 February 2016, 05:32:01
Also there are two German tech news sites with articles up already.  It's pretty clear by the user comments that they did not read the web site and just looked at the photo on the web site of an old-style looking keyboard and saw the price and made their remarks only based on that :(

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Tastaturen-Hardware-255538/News/IBM-Model-F-Neuauflage-kaufen-1185232/ (http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Tastaturen-Hardware-255538/News/IBM-Model-F-Neuauflage-kaufen-1185232/)
http://www.computerbase.de/2016-02/mechanische-tastatur-ibm-model-f-wird-ab-325-us-dollar-erneut-produziert/ (http://www.computerbase.de/2016-02/mechanische-tastatur-ibm-model-f-wird-ab-325-us-dollar-erneut-produziert/)

Don't worry, it's info for morons who know nothing about keyboards.

Unfortunately a lot of these sites exist today pretending they know what they are talking about but what's worse, they draw their own faulty conclusions from a couple of pics.  Will this mean that Germans have lost their capacity to know anything about model-F keyboards or are they so far up themselves in regards to their own CherryMX technology, that nothing else exists for them? 

You can only draw your own conclusions here........   ;D
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 05 February 2016, 06:51:06
Nice pun Elrick regarding them losing the "capacity" to know anything about Model F keyboards :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: dgreekstallion on Fri, 05 February 2016, 08:47:39
I'm so f*****g excited about this I can't even control myself.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: dgreekstallion on Fri, 05 February 2016, 08:53:28
Just got an F77. I'm as happy as Donald Trump at a wig store.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: cjhard on Fri, 05 February 2016, 08:54:42
I promise I will buy myself (minimum) one of these.. Rent is paid, debit pending, but roommate now owes me enough to cover almost two of these out of her tax refund before 02-29.

Will you be releasing any of the CAD work you've put into these in case someone needs to know the key separation or back-plate curvature for a maybe Model FErgoDox? :P
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Glod on Fri, 05 February 2016, 17:16:45
glod damnit, i'm trying so hard not to pull the trigger but its so hard to resist this, seriously really hard. i literally have brought up the page every day.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 05 February 2016, 20:15:53
Glod why resist :)?  Model F keyboards tend to hold up their value well over time, meaning if your situation changes down the line you can always sell this later after the group buy ends - you may even get more than what you paid for it depending on demand.

I know that others are saying they are selling their more easily obtainable keyboards for an F62/F77.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Fri, 05 February 2016, 21:30:43
Glod why resist :) ?  Model F keyboards tend to hold up their value well over time, meaning if your situation changes down the line you can always sell this later after the group buy ends - you may even get more than what you paid for it depending on demand.

So true, you should see the really crazy price for a standard Kmac Mini which hits easily over $700USD+ but an Ellipse Model-F keyboard will go into the four figure territory  :thumb: .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Michael on Fri, 05 February 2016, 22:11:28
So is the F62 not available in industrial grey?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: naasfu on Fri, 05 February 2016, 22:24:02
So is the F62 not available in industrial grey?

there should be a dropdown with options for industrial grey, beige and black:
http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/f62-model-f-keyboard-kishsaver/

maybe try reloading, since i think the dropdown didn't appear for me earlier on when i first visited that page.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Muramasa on Sat, 06 February 2016, 10:28:17
So Ellipse,

What will be the plan for spare parts once the GB is complete? is the idea to buy spares now or do you think you will be selling then after the GB?

Thanks.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Michael on Sat, 06 February 2016, 10:59:03
So is the F62 not available in industrial grey?

there should be a dropdown with options for industrial grey, beige and black:
http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/f62-model-f-keyboard-kishsaver/ (http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/f62-model-f-keyboard-kishsaver/)

maybe try reloading, since i think the dropdown didn't appear for me earlier on when i first visited that page.


Weird, must be a CSS/html issue. I don't see drop-down arrows. Unless the UI is supposed to be like that?


(http://i.imgur.com/iKhxBps.jpg)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Vittra on Sat, 06 February 2016, 11:06:50
UI for the drop down elements cuts off for me as well on multiple browsers, and different machines.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: dustinhxc on Sat, 06 February 2016, 11:22:52
These are so damn good man.... Great job!  :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 06 February 2016, 15:26:57
Sorry - the dropdowns should be fixed now. 

Yes Bro Caps you can order F62 and F77 in Industrial Grey, Off-white, or black.

Mura there is expected to be no spare parts availability after the GB ends as I don't want to hold lots of inventory.  If you want something I recommend ordering it during the GB!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Jedi on Sat, 06 February 2016, 17:04:50
Ellipse, why the extras, I mean is this something we really should be looking at too?  I sometimes jump on a group buy when options that I didn't really know that I needed or wanted were easily available and then its way too late for me to do anything about it.  I mean the extra case is a given even the paper thank you and the extra box with styrofoam.  I'm referring to the flippers and plastics and springs etc.  I mean are these things you should be really encouraging us to buy to ensure we have spare parts assuming we use the keyboard as our everyday board? I would like to know what you would buy or have extra on hand (especially since you have had the chance to use the new boards for quite awhile). 
I'd rather be safe than sorry.  Thanks
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Sat, 06 February 2016, 18:13:32
Ellipse, why the extras, I mean is this something we really should be looking at too?  I sometimes jump on a group buy when options that I didn't really know that I needed or wanted were easily available and then its way too late for me to do anything about it.  I mean the extra case is a given even the paper thank you and the extra box with styrofoam.  I'm referring to the flippers and plastics and springs etc.  I mean are these things you should be really encouraging us to buy to ensure we have spare parts assuming we use the keyboard as our everyday board? I would like to know what you would buy or have extra on hand (especially since you have had the chance to use the new boards for quite awhile). 
I'd rather be safe than sorry.  Thanks
I believe the extras are aimed at people with restoration projects for other model f's. As it stands the only option is to cannibalize another model f if you are missing parts for one. By listing them separately people can order them for existing boards.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iss on Sat, 06 February 2016, 19:06:27
What are the differences between the XT barrels and the AT/new barrels?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 06 February 2016, 19:08:11
cswanic - not sure I understand your question.  As a note anyone can buy as many extras as you want during the group buy and from the beginning I expressed that this is a limited production run and that little to no spares will be made.  Every spare part is listed on www.ModelFkeyboards.com.

If you order your keyboard and then decide later you want extra parts, that is ok - you can place an additional order as late as 6/30 for the spare parts.

You could even buy a whole bunch of spares in anticipation of future projects that other people decide on. 

I am hoping that someone will volunteer to order a few thousand spare barrels and flippers to sell later on for future community projects.  Some people have expressed interest but I have no volunteers just yet.

My recommendation is to buy spare inside foam and spare flippers and springs.  This is not finalized but I do expect to include some leftover springs with everyone's order because springs may wear out and the foam may become less spongy over time- no one knows.  I expect to make the springs with some of the finest quality Japanese steel (the specific variant is actually advertised as piano wire!).

Part of the quality control of this project will be making sure all of the springs buckle successfully and reliably.  I expect to test every keyboard before mailing it.  This is why I have offered the option to pay a little more for an early serial and then I will put you ahead of the line.

iss the AT barrels are the ones being used for this project and they have the notch on the right side.  The XT barrels have the "pin" and are used in XT style keyboards. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Quackles on Sun, 07 February 2016, 04:41:27
Any other Aussies ordered one of these? I'm so tempted to get the F77 but the exchange and shipping is killing me :(
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: fanpeople on Sun, 07 February 2016, 04:43:31
Any other Aussies ordered one of these? I'm so tempted to get the F77 but the exchange and shipping is killing me :(

I ordered an f77 and will order an f62 in a few months, its just a once in a lifetime oppertunity
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Quackles on Sun, 07 February 2016, 04:45:21
Any other Aussies ordered one of these? I'm so tempted to get the F77 but the exchange and shipping is killing me :(

I ordered an f77 and will order an f62 in a few months, its just a once in a lifetime oppertunity

Of course you have! Your SSK was amazing when I saw it (I was jealous of it!), no surprise you are keen on this :P

Going to have a night to think about it and see what to do.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: fanpeople on Sun, 07 February 2016, 04:48:22
Any other Aussies ordered one of these? I'm so tempted to get the F77 but the exchange and shipping is killing me :(

I ordered an f77 and will order an f62 in a few months, its just a once in a lifetime oppertunity

Of course you have! Your SSK was amazing when I saw it (I was jealous of it!), no surprise you are keen on this :P

Going to have a night to think about it and see what to do.

Haha i ended up getting a hhkb shortly after that also. Gotta catch them all, at least if you got one you probebly wouldn't have much trouble selling it if you had a change of mind  :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: romevi on Sun, 07 February 2016, 10:12:36
Any other Aussies ordered one of these? I'm so tempted to get the F77 but the exchange and shipping is killing me :(

Not sure what the extra costs, but I can imagine that, once the GB ends, getting one of these will be more than directly from Ellipse now.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ryahirv on Sun, 07 February 2016, 10:24:31
Order for Industrial gray F77 w $100 early-bird tooling assistance & Industrial SSK Blue key pack is in!!

VERY excited!
:-)

Thank you again to @Ellipse!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 07 February 2016, 15:17:13
Thanks for your support ryahirv, and for all the early bird tooling volunteers!  We're just waiting on 6 more early bird tooling volunteers to put in their orders.  I trust they will get it in before the February 29th deadline :)

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Sun, 07 February 2016, 15:59:01
alright, got my second order in... should be all set now xD!!!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ryahirv on Sun, 07 February 2016, 16:01:11
alright, got my second order in... should be all set now xD!!!

You get one of each?
Or multiple of something?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Mon, 08 February 2016, 13:12:31
alright, got my second order in... should be all set now xD!!!

You get one of each?
Or multiple of something?
just the 62 with parts for both shift setups and two cases!!!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ctm on Mon, 08 February 2016, 19:16:44
My recommendation is to buy spare inside foam and spare flippers and springs.  This is not finalized but I do expect to include some leftover springs with everyone's order because springs may wear out and the foam may become less spongy over time- no one knows.
Do you expect the foam used in this production to age like those in original Model F? Even if I buy an extra set of foam now, will they age at the same rate as the one in keyboard, so they are not usable when I need them? (I don't know much about foam)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 09 February 2016, 17:00:22
ctm I expect it to age better than the primary type of F foam I have seen.  There was also an original Ensolite type foam that I found in one of my 1984/5 XT's and one of my F77s that has aged very well compared to the other foam. 

I do recommend getting some extra foam with your order.  With the new foam I believe we have to worry more about loss of elasticity from it staying compressed inside the keyboard and not from general disintegration like the original foam.  The original foam reminded me of the foam used in 8 track tapes, almost all of which has disintegrated just with time and not as much due to constant pressure.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Tue, 09 February 2016, 18:52:59
I really want to get in on this now but I think I am going to wait until round 2 when I have more money at my disposal.

Ellipse, there is guaranteed to be a round 2 right?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: romevi on Tue, 09 February 2016, 19:24:53
I really want to get in on this now but I think I am going to wait until round 2 when I have more money at my disposal.

Ellipse, there is guaranteed to be a round 2 right?

Yup. The first round is for early birdies, us keyboard nerds. The second round will open right after and be open for ever and ever and ever. Or end of June of this year. Whichever comes first.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 09 February 2016, 19:33:28
A cross-post from my other thread due to an important update in the project:

PayPal approves my case!

Good news - I just called PayPal again today and they said they approved my case and will release the funds shortly.

So it is looking like the PayPal issue has been resolved and will not pose any potential problems for this project going forward!  My funds were frozen as a security precaution about a week or so ago.

The orders continue coming in and we still have 3 weeks left in the early bird round!  In the first week or so we passed over $40,000 worth of orders (including shipping costs).

Yes imtootallforthis there will definitely be a second round ending 6/30/16 with expected shipping in August/September.

I recommend getting in the early round if it is at all possible for you - I know I wouldn't like waiting an extra 4 months for something to arrive in the mail! 

One note that the early bird is not an inferior or "beta" version - it is the full version with the same specifications as the regular round. The "beta" versions were the two prototypes which came out great and fully functional (as shown in the YouTube video posted earlier) and are just getting some small adjustments to make them perfect (all of these adjustments will go into the early bird production units and the regular round units).

Here's the current approximate order breakdown:
64   United States
7   United Kingdom
6   Australia
3   Japan
3   Sweden
2   Canada
2   Netherlands
2   Korea, Republic of
1   Poland
1   Spain
1   Germany
1   New Zealand
1   Viet Nam
1   France
1   Austria
1   Hong Kong
1   South Africa
1   Indonesia
1   Ireland
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Tue, 09 February 2016, 20:18:22
I really want to get in on this now but I think I am going to wait until round 2 when I have more money at my disposal.

Ellipse, there is guaranteed to be a round 2 right?

Yup. The first round is for early birdies, us keyboard nerds. The second round will open right after and be open for ever and ever and ever. Or end of June of this year. Whichever comes first.

Hey I am just a broke keyboard nerd! I will justify it as a graduation present to myself when I order one in round 2.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: joneslee85 on Tue, 09 February 2016, 22:41:10
I am looking forward to receiving my orders.

I think this is the most expensive groupbuy in the history of GH
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Vizir on Wed, 10 February 2016, 03:40:22
I have not placed my order yet. Still deciding on options...
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: romevi on Wed, 10 February 2016, 11:26:38
I think this is the most expensive groupbuy in the history of GH

And almost most important. Reviving one of the most revered vintage keyboards with new parts by a single person--a feat to be remembered.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 10 February 2016, 15:03:59
Indeed, this is one for the history books.

...or for the wiki
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Wed, 10 February 2016, 15:15:13
Indeed, this is one for the history books.

...or for the wiki
Wiki you say?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: 3K on Wed, 10 February 2016, 16:12:04
Is there any information about if it would be possible to combine shipping of orders or something?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Quackles on Wed, 10 February 2016, 17:06:30
I have not placed my order yet. Still deciding on options...

Same! I don't know whether to go industrial grey or black. I'm decided on the F77 though.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 10 February 2016, 17:27:15
I am looking forward to receiving my orders.

I think this is the most expensive groupbuy in the history of GH
Do you know the lz fe GB? That is the most expensive GB for keyboard that I know.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: cjhard on Thu, 11 February 2016, 09:42:20
Funds are in Pending status with my bank. While they brood over that, I need to make up my mind what colors I want D: I was gonna Paint it Black, but now I'm leaning retro beige.

Is ISO Enter still a stepped key?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 11 February 2016, 18:47:36
Yep ISO Enter is stepped.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: cjhard on Fri, 12 February 2016, 15:26:49
I'm in! I'm in! I'm in!
Beige F62 w/ ISO blanks and the screwy bumpers. I'll probably swing back for spare parts after the Feb 29 order ending.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Glod on Fri, 12 February 2016, 19:32:58
I am pretty excited about this, I joined in for a f77, most expensive single purchase since my GON. It's got me cautiously optimistic though, bad group buy experiences
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: 0100010 on Fri, 12 February 2016, 19:55:13
Could always make new foam too, like we do with 'vintage' Model F's.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 12 February 2016, 22:37:37
So I am curious - who is waiting until the final round to place an order?  I'll make a note of it so I won't send you a reminder email the last week of the early bird round.  (cross post of interest to both IC and GB threads)

We have crossed $47,000 in orders (including shipping) after the first ~2 weeks!

Glod-in your experience what has gone wrong with your previous group buy experiences?  So I can try to avoid these issues.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: tassadarforaiur on Fri, 12 February 2016, 23:43:24
I am, waiting for slim case, and saving up so can order one of each without paying double shipping
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Sat, 13 February 2016, 01:24:32
I am pretty excited about this, I joined in for a f77, most expensive single purchase since my GON. It's got me cautiously optimistic though, bad group buy experiences

Just as long as you DON'T see anyone by the name of "Kin25" involved anywhere within this Group Buy, then you have nothing to fear  8) .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Glod on Sat, 13 February 2016, 14:34:03
how do i add to an existing order so that it is in the same shipping as the keyboard and not lose my place, i wanted to add some parts and caps to my order
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Sat, 13 February 2016, 15:15:43
So I am curious - who is waiting until the final round to place an order?  I'll make a note of it so I won't send you a reminder email the last week of the early bird round.  (cross post of interest to both IC and GB threads)

We have crossed $47,000 in orders (including shipping) after the first ~2 weeks!

Glod-in your experience what has gone wrong with your previous group buy experiences?  So I can try to avoid these issues.

I am still in for the early round and will be chipping in a tooling fee as promised. Just waiting for the Paypal thing to fully clear out. Are we there yet?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ludovician on Sat, 13 February 2016, 15:17:36
Glod, I believe what you need to do is place the order, select local pickup, and say in a note that you want it combined with your previous order.

hashbaz, the paypal issue is cleared up.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 14 February 2016, 17:16:29
cross posted thread - I decided to start a separate thread as the other NYC meetup thread seemed to focus on a later meetup.  I'd be happy to bring the F62 and F77 for people to try at the later meetup as well, just in case this month is busy for you.

As I mentioned before, I'd like to set up a public meeting for anyone who wants to try out the Brand New Kishsaver F62/Industrial F77 keyboards in person in Manhattan.  I also invited two professional tech news writers to stop by and maybe even do a quick first look review (they are interviewing me on the subject of this project).

Who would like to attend?  Which days and times would accommodate most people do you think?

I was thinking Thursdays in the early evening, so how about Thursday 2/25 at 7 PM?  I think Mondays, Fridays, and weekends are too busy for most people.

Can anyone volunteer a venue to host the meetup?  Otherwise we can just meet in one of those indoor Privately Owned Public Spaces in the city.

I'd also invite attendees to bring their own keyboards for comparison if interested.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Sun, 14 February 2016, 18:35:40
hashbaz, the paypal issue is cleared up.

Ellipse, can you confirm this? Has your paypal account been unencumbered?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 14 February 2016, 19:01:18
hashbaz yes PayPal is no longer a potential issue.  Everyone please place an order if you want one of these keyboards!

I reported a few days ago that they approved me to continue using PayPal and that they would release my funds. 

A new update:  Unfortunately the PayPal agent I spoke with was not forthright - the one I spoke to a few days ago said my case was approved and the funds would be released "soon."  Recently I spoke with another agent and he said that I would have to ship the goods before the funds are released, which I have agreed to do.  This will not be a problem for me.   The keyboards should ship in April/May, not too long a wait.

I have contributed and will continue contributing my own funds to production because I believe that Model F's are the best keyboard for those who want the best typing experience.  It is fine if the funds to cover these expenses are paid back when the keyboards ship.

To eliminate PayPal for this project and prevent all the future funds from being frozen until they ship, I have applied for a merchant account and expect to use that in a week or so - they negotiate the reserve amount (if any) ahead of time so that all funds will not be frozen.  I will still accept PayPal though if someone insists on it.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: aznairjordan on Sun, 14 February 2016, 19:07:00
damn, thats a lot of money to be tied up. Hopefully no more paypal issues arise after the boards have shipped and you get your money! Thanks Ellipse for making the purchase of this a smooth one
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sun, 14 February 2016, 20:01:29
I have no problem with using a direct merchant account. It's a shame PayPal can't act like a normal money processing system. I'm not sure why they always want to stick their nose in on these types of crowd funded projects.

Speaking of crowd funding, maybe in hindsight it would have been better to just go with Kickstarter, etc. They take a small cut up front, but this is literally their business model..
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Sun, 14 February 2016, 20:11:22
hashbaz yes PayPal is no longer a potential issue.  Everyone please place an order if you want one of these keyboards!

I reported a few days ago that they approved me to continue using PayPal and that they would release my funds. 

A new update:  Unfortunately the PayPal agent I spoke with was not forthright - the one I spoke to a few days ago said my case was approved and the funds would be released "soon."  Recently I spoke with another agent and he said that I would have to ship the goods before the funds are released, which I have agreed to do.  This will not be a problem for me.   The keyboards should ship in April/May, not too long a wait.

I have contributed and will continue contributing my own funds to production because I believe that Model F's are the best keyboard for those who want the best typing experience.  It is fine if the funds to cover these expenses are paid back when the keyboards ship.

To eliminate PayPal for this project and prevent all the future funds from being frozen until they ship, I have applied for a merchant account and expect to use that in a week or so - they negotiate the reserve amount (if any) ahead of time so that all funds will not be frozen.  I will still accept PayPal though if someone insists on it.

Thanks for the update. What is a merchant account?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sun, 14 February 2016, 20:24:38
A merchant account is needed in order for a business to directly take credit card payments with no intermediary like PayPal.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 14 February 2016, 20:54:36
Yep that's right techno.  Kickstarter does take 5% though (an extra $15 or so per keyboard).  With a merchant account I just have to pay the credit card fees which is a few percentage points and a few hundred in upfront fees, but no Kickstarter fee. 

Also I don't think Kickstarter easily allows all of the dozens of possible combinations and accessories so that's why I chose to build my own site for this project - much easier than manual tracking of options for every order.

Last I checked we passed $49,000 in sales (with shipping charges)!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: fanpeople on Sun, 14 February 2016, 20:57:29
I have no problem with using a direct merchant account. It's a shame PayPal can't act like a normal money processing system. I'm not sure why they always want to stick their nose in on these types of crowd funded projects.

Speaking of crowd funding, maybe in hindsight it would have been better to just go with Kickstarter, etc. They take a small cut up front, but this is literally their business model..

Paypal are just doing what is in the interests of their buisness as well as the customer. What if there was someone who organised and collected thousands of dollars for a group buy which that person had no intention of actually sending the product. That person pulls the funds out and dissapears what next? Paypal refund everyones money out of their own accounts, sure this has probebly happened in the past but it is just the sort of thing they are trying to prevent. They just do it in a way that limits the financial impact to their profit, if they decide to go into damage control after an event. This has the other desired effect of trying to keep people using paypal if something like that happens by offering some protection. There is also the side that a large sum of money may be raised and intended for illegal activites and this way there is time for it to be identified as such.

Of course we take it personally but it is just the way paypal is.

PS thanks so much Ellipse for your commitment to this project, it is truely amazimg.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: cjhard on Sun, 14 February 2016, 21:07:19
Yep that's right techno.  Kickstarter does take 5% though (an extra $15 or so per keyboard).  With a merchant account I just have to pay the credit card fees which is a few percentage points and a few hundred in upfront fees, but no Kickstarter fee. 

Also I don't think Kickstarter easily allows all of the dozens of possible combinations and accessories so that's why I chose to build my own site for this project - much easier than manual tracking of options for every order.

Last I checked we passed $49,000 in sales (with shipping charges)!

You've put five figures into the project, and Paypal ties up another five figures, and now you're agreeing to ship the product against your own cash and be paid back when it's ready.

You are literally setting the benchmark for how we judge group buys. "Oh yeah, it's great, but he's far from topping Ellipse!"
What skills do I require to break into a career in your day job?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Mon, 15 February 2016, 00:25:55
hashbaz yes PayPal is no longer a potential issue.  Everyone please place an order if you want one of these keyboards!

I reported a few days ago that they approved me to continue using PayPal and that they would release my funds. 

A new update:  Unfortunately the PayPal agent I spoke with was not forthright - the one I spoke to a few days ago said my case was approved and the funds would be released "soon."  Recently I spoke with another agent and he said that I would have to ship the goods before the funds are released, which I have agreed to do.  This will not be a problem for me.   The keyboards should ship in April/May, not too long a wait.

I have contributed and will continue contributing my own funds to production because I believe that Model F's are the best keyboard for those who want the best typing experience.  It is fine if the funds to cover these expenses are paid back when the keyboards ship.

To eliminate PayPal for this project and prevent all the future funds from being frozen until they ship, I have applied for a merchant account and expect to use that in a week or so - they negotiate the reserve amount (if any) ahead of time so that all funds will not be frozen.  I will still accept PayPal though if someone insists on it.

Jeez Ellipse that is an epic amount of money to front the project all the way till shipment! Hope all goes well and thank you for the dedication.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 16 February 2016, 19:30:55
Thanks cjhard and atlas.  We are at the mid point of the group buy right now and have just two weeks left for everyone to get in their early bird orders!

Everyone who orders before the end of the month receives an early bird keyboard - you don't have to pay extra thanks to the early bird tooling volunteers.

We just crossed the $51,000 mark!  Now there are at least two well-known individuals in the tech world who have bought one of these F77/F62 keyboards!

A few days ago DT user bubblebobbler posted that he helped in getting Minecraft founder "Notch" to order a keyboard!  And the second individual has his own wikipedia page and is a major innovator who started in the early days of the internet.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ctm on Tue, 16 February 2016, 20:08:50
Thanks cjhard and atlas.  We are at the mid point of the group buy right now and have just two weeks left for everyone to get in their early bird orders!

Everyone who orders before the end of the month receives an early bird keyboard - you don't have to pay extra thanks to the early bird tooling volunteers.

We just crossed the $51,000 mark!  Now there are at least two well-known individuals in the tech world who have bought one of these F77/F62 keyboards!

A few days ago DT user bubblebobbler posted that he helped in getting Minecraft founder "Notch" to order a keyboard!  And the second individual has his own wikipedia page and is a major innovator who started in the early days of the internet.
Wow that's super cool! I think Notch is a buckling spring fan because he uses a Model M.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: henz on Wed, 17 February 2016, 02:14:55
Finally joined!  :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: romevi on Wed, 17 February 2016, 10:05:07
Thanks cjhard and atlas.  We are at the mid point of the group buy right now and have just two weeks left for everyone to get in their early bird orders!

Everyone who orders before the end of the month receives an early bird keyboard - you don't have to pay extra thanks to the early bird tooling volunteers.

We just crossed the $51,000 mark!  Now there are at least two well-known individuals in the tech world who have bought one of these F77/F62 keyboards!

A few days ago DT user bubblebobbler posted that he helped in getting Minecraft founder "Notch" to order a keyboard!  And the second individual has his own wikipedia page and is a major innovator who started in the early days of the internet.
Wow that's super cool! I think Notch is a buckling spring fan because he uses a Model M.

I remember back when he was still working on Minecraft and it was getting its ground that the first upgrades he did, besides his main specs, were getting Unicomps for everyone.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Techno Trousers on Wed, 17 February 2016, 11:07:50
Let's hope Notch likes the Model F revival so much that he bankrolls the creation of a whole new generation of 107 key and 87 key capacitive buckling spring keyboards with modern layouts.
Well, I can dream, anyway.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 17 February 2016, 20:59:53
romevi that is interesting.  What a great office that allows buckling spring keyboards!  Imagine the sound of lots of buckling springs is probably how many 1980s offices sounded!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: romevi on Wed, 17 February 2016, 21:18:58
romevi that is interesting.  What a great office that allows buckling spring keyboards!  Imagine the sound of lots of buckling springs is probably how many 1980s offices sounded!

Yeah, he loved the original buckling springs! At the time I think it was only a handful of people working on the game, so I'm sure it didn't get too loud!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 18 February 2016, 19:17:00
(cross post)  As I mentioned before (in the off topic thread), I'd like to set up a public meeting for anyone who wants to try out the Brand New Kishsaver F62/Industrial F77 keyboards in person in Manhattan.  I also invited two professional tech news writers to stop by and maybe even do a quick first look review (they are interviewing me on the subject of this project).

Who would like to attend?  Which days and times would accommodate most people do you think?

I was thinking Thursdays in the early evening, so how about Thursday 2/25 at 7 PM?  I think Mondays, Fridays, and weekends are too busy for most people.

I'd also invite attendees to bring their own keyboards for comparison if interested.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 18 February 2016, 22:06:18
Nooby question, as I've not had much experience with M's and F's, other than using a bolt-modded M for a bit and not really liking it much, and also trying out someone else's F briefly.  I definitely liked F more than M, but then trying the F coincided with also trying out dorkvader's magical beam spring board, which pretty much overshadowed everything else and remains my dream keyboard in terms of switch feel.  So, I'm curious about this fresh round of model F keyboards: are they going to be more or less the same in typing feel compared to the originals?  Is anything changing to make the switches lighter or conversely heavier?  If I've tried an old model F (I think it was an AT), should I assume this new keyboard be basically the same in terms of typing experience?  I guess I should wait until the official public meeting takes place and people post some opinion reviews.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 19 February 2016, 16:03:37
Photoelectric-yes they will be similar to the originals.  No two Model F's are the same though so it won't match exactly any specific Model F you've tried. If you go to modelfkeyboards.com you can see a comparison video with typing tests and sound.  The key force is the same as the originals.  Reviews of production units from the first round won't be available until April/May at the earliest, so if you're waiting until then, you won't get your keyboard until August/September (the final round closes 6/30).  The two prototypes are of excellent quality and functionality but they are being adjusted before the first production round.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Fri, 19 February 2016, 17:06:55
Photoelectric-yes they will be similar to the originals.  No two Model F's are the same though so it won't match exactly any specific Model F you've tried. If you go to modelfkeyboards.com you can see a comparison video with typing tests and sound.  The key force is the same as the originals.  Reviews of production units from the first round won't be available until April/May at the earliest, so if you're waiting until then, you won't get your keyboard until August/September (the final round closes 6/30).  The two prototypes are of excellent quality and functionality but they are being adjusted before the first production round.

Well that's good to know it closes on 6/30! I can now justify this as a birthday present too!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ctm on Sat, 20 February 2016, 20:06:39
Is the inner foam made of some special type of foam, or just regular form that can easily get? If it's just regular form, I think it might be better to buy fresh foam and cut it myself in the future, if I ever need to replace the foam.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 21 February 2016, 11:07:11
ctm you can use different types of foam but I don't think you'll get the most even experience unless you use one of the factory-cut foams - they are precision cut for each barrel cutout/opening, so I would recommend buying extra foams.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 21 February 2016, 19:54:43
On the IC thread for this project I have posted the draft ultra compact case designs, in case anyone's interested. 

I am thinking of allowing people to order the smaller case even though a prototype is not yet in hand, so you can get the small case in time for the early bird round.  Or you can always order the smaller case in the final round, after prototypes have been photographed.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 22 February 2016, 23:09:27
First round orders close at the end of this month (2/29/16 is the last day to order one in the early bird round)! 

The final round closes 6/30/16 but you would need to wait until August/September for them to ship :(

130 F62 / F77 keyboards ordered - $58,000 total so far (including shipping)! 

Here's the current case color breakdown among the orders (some orders are for extra cases - 11 extra cases have been ordered so far):
41:  Off-white/beige
64:  Industrial gray
33:  Black
3:  Other

Interestingly only 17 black unprinted key sets have been ordered, but 33 black cases were ordered - I would have thought more black unprinted sets would have been ordered given the number of black cases people are getting.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: riotonthebay on Mon, 22 February 2016, 23:18:27
Out of curiosity, what color do the 3 others represent?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: CoolGrayAJ on Tue, 23 February 2016, 01:13:27
I'm actually really curious about the "Other" color option as well. Can I get this in either a Tiffany Blue or a Pastel Pink?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ludovician on Tue, 23 February 2016, 01:24:10
I got my black keys from Unicomp before the buy in case they ran out mid-buy. Also because I needed a few other spares for my beige F62 key set.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 23 February 2016, 14:14:50
Any change in the Paypal situation? This is the only reason I haven't ordered yet. You said something about accepting payments directly?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 23 February 2016, 14:16:34
I'm actually really curious about the "Other" color option as well. Can I get this in either a Tiffany Blue or a Pastel Pink?

If I didn't get my 6019284 in jdcarpurple, I would've gotten one of those two colors :))
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: CoolGrayAJ on Tue, 23 February 2016, 14:26:16
I'm actually really curious about the "Other" color option as well. Can I get this in either a Tiffany Blue or a Pastel Pink?

If I didn't get my 6019284 in jdcarpurple, I would've gotten one of those two colors :))

Great mind think in hypebeast colorways. Or something like that.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 23 February 2016, 15:32:27
Hashbaz the PayPal issue was resolved a week ago.  There is no other payment option right now.

Yes you can get a custom color for about $100 extra for tooling.  Just specify the Pantone color. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: riotonthebay on Tue, 23 February 2016, 15:35:48
Is it possible for you to list the other colors being produced so that people could share the expense if they want the same thing? For instance, I'd be interested in a deep red if other people wanted to share the cost.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Jedi on Tue, 23 February 2016, 18:56:32
Those who purchased an F77 and are interested in a red case, PM me and I'll add you to the list of people wanting the same and the cost will be shared (payment to Elipse of course, I'm just organizing this for us).  Thanks!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 23 February 2016, 19:44:08
Other colors so far that people want (they may change their mind as I have not collected payment yet for other colors - haven't confirmed anything with the factory just yet; also some people put in more than one color request, and others expressed interest in one of these colors but haven't placed an order yet):

If I missed any please post the missing Pantone color!

PANTONE 17-4014 TPX Titanium gray
Silver gray
Pantone true red 19-1664
champagne gold
Gold
crimson red
olive/ drab green
turquoise
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 24 February 2016, 17:48:30
We crossed $60,000 today in orders (including shipping)!  For those who have not placed an order I will soon send you one PM and one email as a reminder (if you signed up but can't commit until the regular round - March through June - that's fine too - feel free to let me know so I can make a note of it).

Just 5 days left to place an order and get your keyboard in April/May - otherwise you'd need to wait until August/September for them to ship with the final round!  A note that both rounds will feature the exact same items - I have made modifications to the fully assembled/functional prototype F62 and F77 keyboards and the designs will be the same for both rounds.  The design is fully tested as I've been typing on my F62 and F77 prototypes for 5-6 weeks already (including as I type this post!).

I received a message from the mods today and need to remind everyone to minimize cross-posting on the GB and IC threads, though I know I am cross-posting on both threads for this update ;)

I am keeping the IC thread open for ongoing discussion of Model F production, including the small case designs and renderings.

Please put all other questions related to the group buy in the GB thread, including discussion about order options, colors, bumpers, shipping, etc.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Vizir on Fri, 26 February 2016, 13:30:22
just ordered a black f77 with ultrawhite keys and an industrial gray f62 with pearl/pebble keys. 2nd round will be alternative colors and/or case designs. :D now the wait begins!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: A-train on Fri, 26 February 2016, 16:10:59
Been lurking on this one for a while but could resist no longer. In!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Cods on Fri, 26 February 2016, 16:46:59
Ordered one of each, plus donation for earlybird. Thanks mate - great job.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 27 February 2016, 13:44:59
Thanks!  We just crossed $65,000 in orders for the F62/F77 group buy (including shipping)!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Sat, 27 February 2016, 23:08:23
Thanks!  We just crossed $65,000 in orders for the F62/F77 group buy (including shipping)!

When those that know about the Model F Legend lift their hands to own this unique keyboard, the whole internet will witness the greatest comeback of a long forgotten keyboard switch.

Long live the Model-F because it will be known as a true Phoenix, rising out of it's long slumber within the burnt wasteland of our consciousness.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: U47 on Mon, 29 February 2016, 12:11:41
In for an F62 and an F77! Hope I'm under the wire for the first run.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Mon, 29 February 2016, 12:51:33
In for a blacked out F62  :cool:

I blame Bro as I won some of his sweet BS caps and had nowhere to put them  :))
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 29 February 2016, 17:40:06
In for an F62 and an F77! Hope I'm under the wire for the first run.

Same. :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: axtran on Mon, 29 February 2016, 18:06:05
I just opted in. Ellipse, can you confirm that I'm included in the first run? My damn love for the Model M had me have two of them refurbished--I can only hope that this supercedes it!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 29 February 2016, 22:26:35
Yes everyone made it.  Please give an extra thanks to all the early bird tooling supporters paying the extra costs required to set up the machines for an early production run.  Their user names will be included on the QC-style label inside each keyboard.

$77,000+ in total orders (including shipping costs) so far!  This is shaping up to be a sizable project.

I reviewed all the orders that came in up to now and we are just waiting on 3 early bird tooling volunteers.  All the others are good to go.

I reached out to my factory contacts with pages of notes, instructions and questions in preparation for the production process and they are still looking into everything - I am waiting on their thorough reply that addresses everything. 

The expected timeline from here is that I will be sending final payments for the remaining tooling and mold costs this week, then the factory will go into preparation for production shortly after they get back to me. 

We have already gone through Preparations A through G, and now we have the next one up :)

While I can't guarantee that late orders will be included in the early bird round, I will do my best to include everyone even if you are a little late - everyone can have a week or two more if you'd like but I want to finalize things ASAP once the factory is ready.  I want to keep things on time so that these early bird orders ship before the end of May. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Jedi on Mon, 29 February 2016, 23:32:47
What is the plan for the color upgrade for the cases? Will you send a email or a PM to let us know the next step and the deadline for payment?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Mon, 29 February 2016, 23:43:22
HYPE!!!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 01 March 2016, 18:31:14
cswanic sorry for the delay - still going through things with the factory.  I wouldn't take payment unless I can confirm the factory agrees on a cost to do it.  I will let the custom color requestors know when I know!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 03 March 2016, 17:35:43
Group Buy update:

With 180 keyboards ordered in the past month (over $77,000 in orders including shipping costs!) I have decided to proceed with producing my own IBM XT quality, one-piece Model M/Model F compatible key caps for most orders from this project, including black unprinted keys.  Custom colors and APL sets will likely be Unicomp made.

I will also be making the short right shift/caps lock key mold non-stepped as has been strongly requested from the beginning (of course stepped caps lock keys can be put in place of non-stepped keys).

As the factory takes care of the remaining pre-production things, I will try to accommodate the late orders into the early bird round, but no guarantees!

Please keep keycap discussion on the IC thread so that there is no overlap on the threads.

Any questions about changing or discussing your orders please keep them on this thread. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Thu, 03 March 2016, 18:52:13
Group Buy update:

With 180 keyboards ordered in the past month (over $77,000 in orders including shipping costs!) I have decided to proceed with producing my own IBM XT quality, one-piece Model M/Model F compatible key caps for most orders from this project, including black unprinted keys.  Custom colors and APL sets will likely be Unicomp made.

I will also be making the short right shift/caps lock key mold non-stepped as has been strongly requested from the beginning (of course stepped caps lock keys can be put in place of non-stepped keys).

As the factory takes care of the remaining pre-production things, I will try to accommodate the late orders into the early bird round, but no guarantees!

Please keep keycap discussion on the IC thread so that there is no overlap on the threads.

Any questions about changing or discussing your orders please keep them on this thread.

Wow, thats great news!

Non-stepped caps will be perfect for the HHKB layouts!  :D
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: romevi on Thu, 03 March 2016, 21:06:18
Group Buy update:

With 180 keyboards ordered in the past month (over $77,000 in orders including shipping costs!) I have decided to proceed with producing my own IBM XT quality, one-piece Model M/Model F compatible key caps for most orders from this project, including black unprinted keys.  Custom colors and APL sets will likely be Unicomp made.

I will also be making the short right shift/caps lock key mold non-stepped as has been strongly requested from the beginning (of course stepped caps lock keys can be put in place of non-stepped keys).

As the factory takes care of the remaining pre-production things, I will try to accommodate the late orders into the early bird round, but no guarantees!

Please keep keycap discussion on the IC thread so that there is no overlap on the threads.

Any questions about changing or discussing your orders please keep them on this thread.

Great news! Very excited about the new caps, but mostly for the small right Shift!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: axtran on Thu, 03 March 2016, 21:43:24
Would be super nifty to get split right shift and full-size caps (non-stepped). ;)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 04 March 2016, 20:44:26
Good news - I have finally switched over to a merchant account!  Everything is now set up on the web site, including SSL for the checkout page.  I went with one of the most popular payment processors, Authorize.net (over 400,000 merchant customers including eBay, shopify, and BigCommerce).  If you are planning on a future order and are unable to pay by credit or debit card, PayPal will still be an option - just PM me your shopping cart contents when ready to order. 

It's almost unreal that we are up to $78,000 in orders (including shipping charges) after a little over one month!

Ordering the case molds has been delayed until next week - the factory needed some more time unfortunately.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Sat, 05 March 2016, 04:16:35
Good news - I have finally switched over to a merchant account!  Everything is now set up on the web site, including SSL for the checkout page.  I went with one of the most popular payment processors, Authorize.net (over 400,000 merchant customers including eBay, shopify, and BigCommerce).  If you are planning on a future order and are unable to pay by credit or debit card, PayPal will still be an option - just PM me your shopping cart contents when ready to order. 

It's almost unreal that we are up to $78,000 in orders (including shipping charges) after a little over one month!

You're the BIG believer in these Model-Fs and your enthusiasm has caught everyone else out there and that even includes newbs who have never heard of Buckling Spring let alone Model-F keyboards.

Ellipse has brought back the excitement for these babies and it was about time already, when we were nearly drowning in CherryMX keyboards all over the planet.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Tue, 08 March 2016, 08:04:47
Just spotted this: http://hackaday.com/2016/03/07/reviving-the-best-keyboard-ever/
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 08 March 2016, 16:36:58
Yes that's a great article that Brian wrote for Hackaday regarding this project!  He reached out to me and interviewed me on the project. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Wed, 09 March 2016, 03:40:55
Yes that's a great article that Brian wrote for Hackaday regarding this project!  He reached out to me and interviewed me on the project. 

Nice! I saw the title and I was like psshhhh unless it's a model F they wrong! Was very pleasantly surprised :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 09 March 2016, 20:38:41
There was an ordering glitch that is now fixed. Sorry if the web site was freezing when you were trying to place an order. Now the merchant account is fully up and running and accepting orders again.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 11 March 2016, 23:14:22
GB update:  I am still taking orders for the early bird round and am hoping that the factory takes care of all the pre-production work as soon as possible.

Due to these delays we are now looking at these to ship towards the end of the estimated April/May timeframe for the early birds. The good thing is any latecomers still have some time to get into the early bird round, at least until early next week.

We are at 183 keyboards ordered in the first 6 weeks and have passed $80,000 in orders (including shipping costs)!  The F77s are ahead a bit so far: 87 F62s and 96 F77s.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Booper on Fri, 11 March 2016, 23:32:49
Weeee! In for one of these!


Great work ellipse! <3
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: user 18 on Sat, 12 March 2016, 00:15:08
GB update:  I am still taking orders for the early bird round and am hoping that the factory takes care of all the pre-production work as soon as possible.

Due to these delays we are now looking at these to ship towards the end of the estimated April/May timeframe for the early birds. The good thing is any latecomers still have some time to get into the early bird round, at least until early next week.

We are at 183 keyboards ordered in the first 6 weeks and have passed $80,000 in orders (including shipping costs)!  The F77s are ahead a bit so far: 87 F62s and 96 F77s.

When will the early bird round end?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Air tree on Sat, 12 March 2016, 00:51:59
Damn. I was really hoping to get in on the early round, but things have gone less than optimal for me lately.


And really good news on the keycaps! I'm definitely going to get a split shift now, I just didn't like the idea of a stepped shift at first, but now I'm for sure.  :D
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Atredl on Sat, 12 March 2016, 01:58:33
Just need to save up a bit more... Can't pull the trigger just yet... Must... Resist!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Sat, 12 March 2016, 03:36:30
The F77s are ahead a bit so far: 87 F62s and 96 F77s.

Was there any doubt of the Great F77 beating that deformed, smaller layout  ;D ?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Atredl on Sat, 12 March 2016, 05:01:31

The F77s are ahead a bit so far: 87 F62s and 96 F77s.

Was there any doubt of the Great F77 beating that deformed, smaller layout  ;D ?

Well you can as good as count another F62 for me. I love me some 60% :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Jedi on Sat, 12 March 2016, 09:17:06
Super impressed with the work Ellipse.  The first OP that is ALREADY working on the production schedule before we even have closed the first round.  Great job taking care of handling the issues that normally come up after everyone is already in and waiting for shipment.  I got in way back at week 1. 

Please let us know anything we need to do to get in on keycaps (I already upgraded my set with my order but would be interested in trying out the new caps when it all gets sorted out).  Custom keyboard, custom colors, custom keycaps, is there really any other reason stopping others from getting in already???  :cool:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Vizir on Sat, 12 March 2016, 23:16:52
From what I've read, to get one of the new key caps, you just need to order the keyboard with a standard ANSI/ISO set in pebble/pearl option; IE stock IBM keycaps.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Vizir on Sun, 13 March 2016, 09:37:20
Update: ellipse is still working out the details on the next XT style keys and once he's done, we will know the pricing and other info. The current orders of keys are for unicomp and their pricing. I expect (now, this is total speculation) we will have to modify our orders and pay the difference if we want XT style keycaps.

Let's see when Ellipse is done working things out.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 15 March 2016, 19:20:18
Yep Vizir, though I am hoping they will be the same price, at least for those who ordered their keyboard with a key set.  Extra sets will likely cost more if you want the XT style single piece caps.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 23 March 2016, 18:04:43
Update on the custom case color costs:

If you are looking for a custom color it will be $200 per color for an unlimited number of keyboard cases.  This is an update from the cost being $100 per color.  The gray, off white, and black colors are no extra charge.  White paint is unfortunately an extra charge.  The factory has agreed to try to mix paint to match other colors but it is more expensive than expected to clean the old color and change it. 

You can get a custom color for the first round.  If you have not already specified that you want a custom color please let me know.

Please do place an order for the required units of "other customizations (in $1 increments)" on the web site for each keyboard you want in the custom color and let me know when you have placed the order.  You can pick free local pickup for the shipping so you do not have to pay extra.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 23 March 2016, 18:33:08
Currently a favored custom color is Pantone True Red 19-1664

The more people want that color the more number of cases the $200 cost can be split among.

Some of you are ordering an extra case or two in a different color to be able to have for later. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: riotonthebay on Thu, 24 March 2016, 08:16:00
At least 3 are in for the True Red, which means that anyone additional added only need cover $50 or less.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Jedi on Thu, 24 March 2016, 09:30:15
Those interested in Pantone True Red 19-1664, please PM Ellipse no later than 31 of March if you want in.  The custom color upgrade is now at $40 and could go lower if anyone else wants to join in :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 30 March 2016, 20:14:46
Reminder - please get in on the True Red original case if you're interested by tomorrow!

And what kind of finishes and processes are people considering for the Ultra compact case?  Powdercoated, anodized, electrophoresis, etched?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Wed, 30 March 2016, 20:52:26
When is round 2 ordering ending?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 30 March 2016, 21:01:37
Reminder - please get in on the True Red original case if you're interested by tomorrow!

And what kind of finishes and processes are people considering for the Ultra compact case?  Powdercoated, anodized, electrophoresis, etched?

Put in a request for another F77 keyboard with that Pantone Red colour.

Getting a pantone Red colour anodized, is extremely tricky when it comes to aluminum because some cases might end up looking like pink or faded red.  I thought powdercoat was the safest because it's the same colour across many casings.

You have to guarantee that the casing colour will be that very bright pantone red, across ALL casings both F77 and F62.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Jedi on Thu, 31 March 2016, 08:38:21
Reminder - please get in on the True Red original case if you're interested by tomorrow!

Pantone true red 19-1664
PAID :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: digi on Fri, 01 April 2016, 12:36:27
Let's hope Notch likes the Model F revival so much that he bankrolls the creation of a whole new generation of 107 key and 87 key capacitive buckling spring keyboards with modern layouts.
Well, I can dream, anyway.

^^ I'm dreaming too, TKL Model F, oO.. I would have jumped in with both feet. (As long as Elrick let me)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Techno Trousers on Fri, 01 April 2016, 14:32:29
Let's hope Notch likes the Model F revival so much that he bankrolls the creation of a whole new generation of 107 key and 87 key capacitive buckling spring keyboards with modern layouts.
Well, I can dream, anyway.

^^ I'm dreaming too, TKL Model F, oO.. I would have jumped in with both feet. (As long as Elrick let me)
Idollar over on Deskthority is about to order a set of FSSK PCBs for his group buy, so I'll be able to make a sorta-Model F SSK someday soon. I'd still rather be able to buy one fully purpose-built, though. It's going to be a pain to have to screw mod an SSK, source 87 F pivot plates and hammers (I'm going to sacrifice an XT for my first FSSK), bend the PCB, solder in an xwhatsit controller, and put it all back together.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: digi on Fri, 01 April 2016, 14:35:50
Let's hope Notch likes the Model F revival so much that he bankrolls the creation of a whole new generation of 107 key and 87 key capacitive buckling spring keyboards with modern layouts.
Well, I can dream, anyway.

^^ I'm dreaming too, TKL Model F, oO.. I would have jumped in with both feet. (As long as Elrick let me)
Idollar over on Deskthority is about to order a set of FSSK PCBs for his group buy, so I'll be able to make a sorta-Model F SSK someday soon. I'd still rather be able to buy one fully purpose-built, though. It's going to be a pain to have to screw mod an SSK, source 87 F pivot plates and hammers (I'm going to sacrifice an XT for my first FSSK), bend the PCB, solder in an xwhatsit controller, and put it all back together.

Hmm, I'm beginning to eye my SSK with bad intent :-\
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Fri, 01 April 2016, 19:03:53
I would have jumped in with both feet. (As long as Elrick let me)

Who are you again, here on GH?

Never heard of you so who really cares but if you desperately want to blame anyone, just look in the mirror first sunshine  ;D .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: axtran on Wed, 06 April 2016, 09:13:56
Any updates? :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: henz on Wed, 06 April 2016, 15:29:01
Any updates? :)

Was wondering the same, its soon tajm!!!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 06 April 2016, 16:37:21
I am still aiming for them to ship from China at the end of May, but I have run into some delays as I work with the factory. 

I will be making some extra F62/F77 keyboards so yours may even ship with the early round if you haven't ordered already but order soon - first come, first served (even though the early bird round has closed).

One pressing issue is the development of the updated xwhatsit controller being used for this project.  wcass has been working on this project and could use some help prototyping (assembling a PCB with SMT components and checking his work).

He has posted a DT thread so feel free to discuss over there, or you can also discuss on the IC thread for this project to avoid duplication of threads.  Wcass's thread:  https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/a-smaller-xwhatsit-t13479.html
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: henz on Wed, 06 April 2016, 16:48:14
I am still aiming for them to ship from China at the end of May, but I have run into some delays as I work with the factory. 

I will be making some extra F62/F77 keyboards so yours may even ship with the early round if you haven't ordered already but order soon - first come, first served (even though the early bird round has closed).

One pressing issue is the development of the updated xwhatsit controller being used for this project.  wcass has been working on this project and could use some help prototyping (assembling a PCB with SMT components and checking his work).

He has posted a DT thread so feel free to discuss over there, or you can also discuss on the IC thread for this project to avoid duplication of threads.  Wcass's thread:  https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/a-smaller-xwhatsit-t13479.html

 im one of the early birds, ill check out his thread to see if i can help
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: MrDaddio on Fri, 08 April 2016, 22:48:38
Alright guys we have Pantone red lined up it seems, lets see if we can can get a classic IBM color to a reasonable cost. The color I am thinking of comes from this beautiful machine
[attach=1]
This Olive Green IBM Selectric II is a beauty and would lend its color nicely to the Model F Keyboard. It would also fit in with the idea of reinventing a classic IBM machine that this group buy embodies.
My suggestion is Pantone PQ-5615 C
Here is a mock-up of this color on this Model F77 remastering
[attach=3]
If anyone has a different variation of this color or a Pantone swatch they think is more true to the original Selectric we can use that but I think this would be fairly close. I want to get as close as possible to the original color so if someone has a better way of finding the rgb color on the Selectric I'd love the input.

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: SixtyLife on Sat, 09 April 2016, 00:08:54
Alright guys we have Pantone red lined up it seems, lets see if we can can get a classic IBM color to a reasonable cost. The color I am thinking of comes from this beautiful machine
(Attachment Link)
This Olive Green IBM Selectric II is a beauty and would lend its color nicely to the Model F Keyboard. It would also fit in with the idea of reinventing a classic IBM machine that this group buy embodies.
My suggestion is Pantone PQ-5615 C
Here is a mock-up of this color on this Model F77 remastering
(Attachment Link)
If anyone has a different variation of this color or a Pantone swatch they think is more true to the original Selectric we can use that but I think this would be fairly close. I want to get as close as possible to the original color so if someone has a better way of finding the rgb color on the Selectric I'd love the input.
that render looks real nice. black caps would complete the look.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: MrDaddio on Sat, 09 April 2016, 00:20:00
Thanks! It is my first time doing a recolor in photoshop actually so that is great to hear.
I just did a recolor (by looking at the IBM Selectric I want to emulate) of the example image from the modelfkeyboard website for the f77 then took the rgb value and found the closest Pantone color. I really want to get this case color made but don't particularly want to eat the entire 200$ cost myself so I figured images may convince at least a few others. Anyone interested please post here and we can make this thing real. If there is interest in a render with black caps I'd gladly pull that together too.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: MrDaddio on Sat, 09 April 2016, 00:42:52
I went ahead and found a pic of a Kish with black caps(thanks ghostjuggernaut for having such a nice board[hope I'm not breaking any unwritten rules borrowing your pic]) and changed the color(I want this to happen) to a similar green. The original image isn't powder coated(I don't think) so it isn't quite accurate but gives a pretty good idea of the colorway.
[attachimg=1]
Plz make this real...
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Sat, 09 April 2016, 02:31:08
Love the green.  :o
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Sat, 09 April 2016, 06:18:44
I went ahead and found a pic of a Kish with black caps(thanks ghostjuggernaut for having such a nice board[hope I'm not breaking any unwritten rules borrowing your pic]) and changed the color(I want this to happen) to a similar green. The original image isn't powder coated(I don't think) so it isn't quite accurate but gives a pretty good idea of the colorway.
(Attachment Link)
Plz make this real...
Wow nice job bro. I really like this color.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 19 April 2016, 21:07:46
Project update:  things moving, but moving slower than hoped for.

Based on estimates from the factory they need more time than what they budgeted.  They couldn't find a machine to attach the springs, meaning 15,000 springs/flippers need to be attached by hand for the ~207 keyboards ordered.

The project will not be rushed to make a deadline if it compromises the component quality or quality of assembly of the keyboards.  I am requiring the factory to hand test every flipper/spring to help ensure quality standards.  Then I will be testing each keyboard key by key before it ships. 

This group buy project will be done right even though we do not have the massive resources for hardware production and quality control that IBM had in the 1980s.

The updated ribbon pitch, more compact xwhatsit Model F USB controller (currently being tested over on DT) is not holding up the project just yet.

I am currently hoping they ship from China in June - I realize this is later than my original end of May expectations.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Tue, 19 April 2016, 22:06:29
Project update:  things moving, but moving slower than hoped for.

They couldn't find a machine to attach the springs, meaning 15,000 springs/flippers need to be attached by hand for the ~207 keyboards ordered.

The project will not be rushed to make a deadline if it compromises the component quality or quality of assembly of the keyboards.  I am requiring the factory to hand test every flipper/spring to help ensure quality standards.  Then I will be testing each keyboard key by key before it ships. 


I am currently hoping they ship from China in June - I realize this is later than my original end of May expectations.

No worries here on GH as long as the keyboards are all done RIGHT  :thumb: .

QUALITY is utmost important here, regardless of the money spent on each keyboard because if it's not done right, you Ellipse shall receive all the free negative publicity for ever more.  After all this is "Geekhack Central" home of Pitchforks and Flaming torches.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Wed, 20 April 2016, 02:43:36
Project update:  things moving, but moving slower than hoped for.

Based on estimates from the factory they need more time than what they budgeted.  They couldn't find a machine to attach the springs, meaning 15,000 springs/flippers need to be attached by hand for the ~207 keyboards ordered.

The project will not be rushed to make a deadline if it compromises the component quality or quality of assembly of the keyboards.  I am requiring the factory to hand test every flipper/spring to help ensure quality standards.  Then I will be testing each keyboard key by key before it ships. 

This group buy project will be done right even though we do not have the massive resources for hardware production and quality control that IBM had in the 1980s.

The updated ribbon pitch, more compact xwhatsit Model F USB controller (currently being tested over on DT) is not holding up the project just yet.

I am currently hoping they ship from China in June - I realize this is later than my original end of May expectations.

Thanks for the update, also totally agree with Elrick, quality is most important. This is GH and we are all used to waiting :) Any update on the keysets you were hoping to produce?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 20 April 2016, 16:59:39
Regarding the XT quality keys, the factory is reviewing the CAD files, but they need more time. 

Yep Elrick - the produced prototype components were all excellent and I've been typing without issue on the F62/F77 prototypes these past few months.  My focus is to ensure the standard of quality of the components continues, and also that the assembly passes my inspection.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: user 18 on Wed, 20 April 2016, 17:22:09
What is the order deadline for the second round?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: manofinterests on Wed, 20 April 2016, 17:29:54
Hey Ellipse, how's the early bird round coming along?

I'm getting pretty excited as we get closer and closer to shipping :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 21 April 2016, 19:33:36
I may extend the final round deadline given the delayed project timeline.

Production officially starts next week according to the factory! The barrels, flippers, and zinc cases are up first. The zinc case molds need to be made, and that process could take a few weeks.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: romevi on Thu, 21 April 2016, 22:53:32
I may extend the final round deadline given the delayed project timeline.

Production officially starts next week according to the factory! The barrels, flippers, and zinc cases are up first. The zinc case molds need to be made, and that process could take a few weeks.

I.e., past the June deadline?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 22 April 2016, 16:42:36
Yes romevi - sorry I wasn't clear.  I'd like to give people at least a month or two to get orders in for the final round after the keyboards ship from me to you.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 25 April 2016, 23:12:34
We're up to $87,000 in orders (with shipping)! 

I also updated the modelfkeyboards.com web site:

4/25 update:  Order today and be included in the early bird round!  To help entice latecomers to order in the first round, I will be including all orders from now onwards in the early bird round, while supplies last!  I ordered some extra keyboards of each color and other combination of common variations and will update this note once I run out.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: mumford on Tue, 26 April 2016, 15:01:39
Just wondering if you guys are ordering extra flippers, springs, and parts, for possible future repair?  If so, what should this repair kit includes?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 26 April 2016, 15:57:50
I recommend extra inner foam and flippers/springs at a minimum.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 26 April 2016, 18:20:47
Is it too late to add extras to an order?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 26 April 2016, 18:36:13
hashbaz it's not too late.  Everyone feel free to add on to your order - just choose free local pickup and I'll combine orders. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Jedi on Tue, 26 April 2016, 20:06:35
I recommend extra inner foam and flippers/springs at a minimum.

What quantity are you recommending? Understand that many of us are likely virgin buyers.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: trenzafeeds on Tue, 26 April 2016, 20:18:47
just saw you in a motherboard article ellipse. you famous bby
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 26 April 2016, 22:12:23
yep trenza Nicholas interviewed me for that Vice article that was published today!  For an in-depth project overview you can also check out the Hackaday article which focused on this project.

If interested here are the dozen or so articles about the Brand New Model F Keyboard project - some in English, and others in German and Korean:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/press/

cswanic I have seen quite a few orders with 5 additional barrels and flippers/springs and one extra inner foam mat, which seems like a good idea.  Sometimes a spring gets bent out of shape when I remove a key too forcefully from one of my original Model F's and the spring cannot be recovered, so some spares always come in handy.

The barrels, flippers, and springs have so far held up since the prototypes were finished in January but of course it's just been three months so far.  Maybe you can get away with no extra foam though:  IBM's later inner foam design has not disintegrated, has held its shape well, and it is at least 25+ years old in my estimate.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: SixtyLife on Tue, 26 April 2016, 22:17:54
did the meetup for people to try the prototypes happen yet? contemplating getting an F77 but would like to see some 3rd party reviews esp from people who have tried model F's before.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 26 April 2016, 22:25:47
did the meetup for people to try the prototypes happen yet? contemplating getting an F77 but would like to see some 3rd party reviews esp from people who have tried model F's before.
Yea me too mane I'm on the fence here
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Tue, 26 April 2016, 22:28:51
contemplating getting an F77 but would like to see some 3rd party reviews esp from people who have tried model F's before.


Don't waste time contemplating because I have used Model-F keyboards in the distant past and liked them.  Just never liked their archaic layouts which was common for all older Model-F keyboards.


All I know is Ellipse, is one of those OCD-like people meaning he will analyse and evaluate every keyboard carefully, before shipping it and shall take a long time before he finishes shipping out every keyboard order.


Hence don't get impatient when he starts his shipping, since it will take a long time before your order is dealt with and sent via courier.  When you finally receive your keyboard you will then notice why this Ellipse keyboard is truly unique in quality and performance, compared to all other mass produced junk distributed around the world today.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 26 April 2016, 23:18:01
Yep that's right Elrick!  Even if the factory is on schedule and ships by the end of June, it would still take time for sea mail from China to NY and then for me to test, inspect, and ship keyboard by keyboard for 207 keyboards.

Sixty and bocah there was interest in a NYC keyboard meetup but I haven't seen much activity recently on the thread.  I'm open to a meetup in Manhattan.  Right now the best indication of the F62/F77 quality is to take a look and listen to the 2160p UHD video I posted on YouTube in January.  It's high resolution and the sound is clear so each viewer can draw their own conclusions about the prototype sound.  The prototypes sound good but I am confident that the production units will be even better!

Why reviews should be taken with a grain of salt:  I am hoping to loan out review units once the early bird batch arrives from China, but please keep in mind that every Model F keyboard in my own experience has a unique sound and feel, meaning a reviewer's sample Model F has little chance of matching the sound of another original Model F or of one of these reproductions (the repro's should sound similar to each other given they are all new and from the same early bird manufacturing batch).  Given that, many a reviewer will certainly say something like "The sound is not the same as my original Model F."  Even the thickness of the inner foam and its state (disintegrating older foam or replacement newer foam) plays a role in the reverberation (thicker foam in my experience makes the keyboard quieter and less reverberant/musical).  Two AT's in my collection sound different from each other and from an XT.  Two of my F77s sound different from each other and other F's.  My F107s sound different than my F122s.  Even one of my 1985 F122s sounds different from my 6110344 from mid-1984.  And it's not just the sound - the state and type of springs also plays a factor in the typing feel/experience - a long time Model F user may prefer the worn down springs in his original F because of the reduced actuation force, compared to a new F (my new F's take some time to break the springs in so that they are even smoother).  Maybe a reviewer prefers quieter keyboards or keyboards at a $100 price point, which would rule out a new Model F. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: bocahgundul on Tue, 26 April 2016, 23:27:00
Yep that's right Elrick!  Even if the factory is on schedule and ships by the end of June, it would still take time for sea mail from China to NY and then for me to test, inspect, and ship keyboard by keyboard for 207 keyboards.

Sixty and bocah there was interest in a NYC keyboard meetup but I haven't seen much activity recently on the thread.  I'm open to a meetup in Manhattan.  Right now the best indication of the F62/F77 quality is to take a look and listen to the 2160p UHD video I posted on YouTube in January.  It's high resolution and the sound is clear so each viewer can draw their own conclusions about the prototype sound.  The prototypes sound good but I am confident that the production units will be even better!

Why reviews should be taken with a grain of salt:  I am hoping to loan out review units once the early bird batch arrives from China, but please keep in mind that every Model F keyboard in my own experience has a unique sound and feel, meaning a reviewer's sample Model F has little chance of matching the sound of another original Model F or of one of these reproductions (the repro's should sound similar to each other given they are all new and from the same early bird manufacturing batch).  Given that, many a reviewer will certainly say something like "The sound is not the same as my original Model F."  Even the thickness of the inner foam and its state (disintegrating older foam or replacement newer foam) plays a role in the reverberation (thicker foam in my experience makes the keyboard quieter and less reverberant/musical).  Two AT's in my collection sound different from each other and from an XT.  Two of my F77s sound different from each other and other F's.  My F107s sound different than my F122s.  Even one of my 1985 F122s sounds different from my 6110344 from mid-1984.  And it's not just the sound - the state and type of springs also plays a factor in the typing feel/experience - a long time Model F user may prefer the worn down springs in his original F because of the reduced actuation force, compared to a new F (my new F's take some time to break the springs in so that they are even smoother).  Maybe a reviewer prefers quieter keyboards or keyboards at a $100 price point, which would rule out a new Model F.
Ok I'll wait for the review on the early bird

If its really good or the feel is the same as the OG I'll get 2
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 30 April 2016, 09:35:50
Expected timeline as of now:

Sea mail shipping from China to the US usually takes 2-4 weeks from what I can gather (probably closer to 4 weeks).  After that I have to test and ship each unit to everyone.  As an update I am hoping for everything to be assembled and ship from China by the end of June, so we are probably looking at the keyboards shipping to you in July/August.  This is later than the original estimate.

I still have the option of air mail shipping from China, which would save 2-4 weeks (probably closer to 4 weeks) for those who want the keyboard ASAP.  So far 4 keyboards are being shipped this way.  The price is still $75/keyboard.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: henz on Sat, 30 April 2016, 11:20:22
Expected timeline as of now:

Sea mail shipping from China to the US usually takes 2-4 weeks from what I can gather (probably closer to 4 weeks).  After that I have to test and ship each unit to everyone.  As an update I am hoping for everything to be assembled and ship from China by the end of June, so we are probably looking at the keyboards shipping to you in July/August.  This is later than the original estimate.

I still have the option of air mail shipping from China, which would save 2-4 weeks (probably closer to 4 weeks) for those who want the keyboard ASAP.  So far 4 keyboards are being shipped this way.  The price is still $75/keyboard.

I dont get it,  why aren't you shipping everything by air?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 30 April 2016, 11:32:12
Henz it's due to cost.  $75/keyboard is the air mail cost for DHL (in bulk, it may be less).  Sea mail is what I planned for in my budget - you're looking at a fraction of that amount for sea mail. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Sat, 30 April 2016, 22:17:48
Henz it's due to cost.  $75/keyboard is the air mail cost for DHL (in bulk, it may be less).  Sea mail is what I planned for in my budget - you're looking at a fraction of that amount for sea mail.


They already started screaming about the current shipping costs, so imagine the heart-attacks and rabid hatred out there for poor Ellipse if he started charging all shipments by Air,  Geekhack would go into meltdown quicker than Fukushima on a Friday  ;D .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: henz on Sat, 30 April 2016, 23:37:26
Henz it's due to cost.  $75/keyboard is the air mail cost for DHL (in bulk, it may be less).  Sea mail is what I planned for in my budget - you're looking at a fraction of that amount for sea mail.


They already started screaming about the current shipping costs, so imagine the heart-attacks and rabid hatred out there for poor Ellipse if he started charging all shipments by Air,  Geekhack would go into meltdown quicker than Fukushima on a Friday  ;D .

I just misinterpreted,  thought we still had to pay 75$ for normal shipping. :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: raymogi on Sat, 30 April 2016, 23:42:05
Any deadline on when to decide if we want it shipped by air shipment? I believe I'm one of the early bird as well.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 30 April 2016, 23:45:48
Ellipse,
how much would it cost to ship 2 kishsaver to Indonesia?

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Sun, 01 May 2016, 00:12:38
I would be happy to pay $75 to get this thing 4 weeks early...
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Sun, 01 May 2016, 02:12:52
For many of us early purchasers, it would be nice to have complimentary air mail included since it seems we will be approaching the 6 month mark.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: raymogi on Sun, 01 May 2016, 02:15:34
For many of us early purchasers, it would be nice to have complimentary air mail included since it seems we will be approaching the 6 month mark.

Agreed.

I almost forgot about this purchase altogether.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Sun, 01 May 2016, 02:17:13
For many of us early purchasers, it would be nice to have complimentary air mail included since it seems we will be approaching the 6 month mark.

Agreed.

I almost forgot about this purchase altogether.
It's nothing personal, but I will not exceed 6 months on this. And with all these delays, us early folk will be up against that window.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: joey on Sun, 01 May 2016, 02:23:53
I too am worried about the 180 day paypal constraint.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 01 May 2016, 09:55:36
ok let me discuss options with the factory to get these faster - maybe they can make me an offer - I will be shipping out mostly in the order they were received so those who ordered earliest will get theirs tested and shipped first

bocah - shipping 2 keyboards together to Indonesia would be $120 total ($60 each)

Yes you can still order an air mail upgrade.  The deadline for the air mail upgrade won't be for at least a month from now - just order 75 units of "other customizations in $1 increments" on modelfkeyboards.com and choose free local pickup, and make a note in the order that it is for upgraded shipping by air mail.  Please note that this is an upgrade just from China to me by air mail, not any change from the shipping from me to you.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Sun, 01 May 2016, 19:31:33
I too am worried about the 180 day paypal constraint.


I know it's tough trusting someone here with your hard earned cash since I myself lost lots, from people I had personally trusted here on GH Central.


All I can say is that I've bought from Ellipse before when he restored IBM keyboards from scratch and they returned in nearly new condition, he did a wonderful job on all of them without making any mistakes.


Not that my word means anything here on GH but at least give him some trust because without that, you can forget about ever owning a nice keyboard.  There are rip-off merchants everywhere so beware but also consider if you can't afford to lose your dough on a keyboard, then you shouldn't be buying them in the first place.


Always buy what you can afford to lose and that's my word for today........
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: henz on Mon, 02 May 2016, 01:58:03
I too am worried about the 180 day paypal constraint.


I know it's tough trusting someone here with your hard earned cash since I myself lost lots, from people I had personally trusted here on GH Central.


All I can say is that I've bought from Ellipse before when he restored IBM keyboards from scratch and they returned in nearly new condition, he did a wonderful job on all of them without making any mistakes.


Not that my word means anything here on GH but at least give him some trust because without that, you can forget about ever owning a nice keyboard.  There are rip-off merchants everywhere so beware but also consider if you can't afford to lose your dough on a keyboard, then you shouldn't be buying them in the first place.


Always buy what you can afford to lose and that's my word for today........

So one should expect to loose their money? That is what i got out of this^^  the keyboard will have reselling value. I myself bought this to test it, if i dont like it i will definitely sell it.



Side note: Do we know which number we got? We early birds.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 02 May 2016, 03:57:42
So one should expect to loose their money? That is what i got out of this^^


In every single Group Buy, YES that will always be the possibility no matter the promises or statements made.


If you want 100% delivery within the famed "180 day Paypal agreement limit" then ONLY buy from the Classifieds section of this website.  Don't waste your time in Group Buys if you are too afraid of losing your money.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ika on Mon, 02 May 2016, 04:11:13
Is there no way to do some kind of paypal refund/repayment in order to extend the 180-day window? I would not be opposed to that. I do like the keyboard but I want to be safe with my money, as it is a considerably amount.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 02 May 2016, 04:47:08
Is there no way to do some kind of paypal refund/repayment in order to extend the 180-day window? I would not be opposed to that. I do like the keyboard but I want to be safe with my money, as it is a considerably amount.


You can't EXTEND anything unless paypal says so and thus far, 180 days is their final limit.  Before that time period, they had their standard 45 day limit for years, in fact for a decade or more.

Be glad they upped it to 180 days now instead of relying upon their previous limit.  No doubt if you have extreme worry issues with this purchase, then simply wait for one to turn up in the Classifieds section of Geekhack and if it's a bidding war, then prepare for battle when it presents itself.

Nothing in life is guaranteed so go with what you can afford to lose, otherwise best stay away from Geekhack altogether, - friendly advice here.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: jjnist on Mon, 02 May 2016, 10:04:50
So tempted to join this drop. Wish the case a little smaller on the f62 but buckling springs sound so good
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 02 May 2016, 16:45:38
jjnist there is an ultra compact case option that will soon be available for both designs (F62 and F77)

henz I've only assigned serials so far to those who reserved one.  You can still place an order and reserve a serial for the early bird round (if it's not already reserved), at least through the end of May.

ika if we are getting too close to the 6 month deadline for some people I think you have a good idea.  The only thing is that you'd need to place the new order first by credit or debit card (or mail a check!) and then I'd refund your paypal order.  My paypal was frozen and I no longer accept payment through that method.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: joey on Mon, 02 May 2016, 16:50:26
Sending via those other methods don't really offer the same protection as PayPal. (A credit card might? I don't have one so don't know)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ika on Mon, 02 May 2016, 19:41:09
jjnist there is an ultra compact case option that will soon be available for both designs (F62 and F77)

henz I've only assigned serials so far to those who reserved one.  You can still place an order and reserve a serial for the early bird round (if it's not already reserved), at least through the end of May.

ika if we are getting too close to the 6 month deadline for some people I think you have a good idea.  The only thing is that you'd need to place the new order first by credit or debit card (or mail a check!) and then I'd refund your paypal order.  My paypal was frozen and I no longer accept payment through that method.

Ah, I thought you had worked out getting a business/merchant account with Paypal. My mistake. Like Joey said I'm not sure if credit cards will have the same protection, but it is a panic button option, as credit card companies do have the power to run chargebacks, for better or for worse?
Title: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: riotonthebay on Mon, 02 May 2016, 23:38:44
Credit cards offer you the same or better protection than PayPal. PayPal is a truly monstrous historical artifact primarily relied upon due to buyer superstition and convention.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 03 May 2016, 00:32:13
I will be shipping out mostly in the order they were received so those who ordered earliest will get theirs tested and shipped first

Tooling funders are prioritized in this order, yes?

Also it's not clear to me what the status of the one-piece keys are. Is that for sure happening, are we waiting on something, etc?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: jjnist on Tue, 03 May 2016, 01:18:57
jjnist there is an ultra compact case option that will soon be available for both designs (F62 and F77)

Just take my money why don't you....
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Tue, 03 May 2016, 03:36:04
PayPal is a truly monstrous historical artifact primarily relied upon due to buyer superstition and convention.


Do doubt but don't get all holy about the major Credit Card Companies sunshine because they're another form of ignorance and torture when it comes to Group Buys.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 03 May 2016, 16:44:04
hashbaz yes the early tooling volunteers made this round possible so they are getting prioritized.  The very first people to get them will be those who paid the $75 per keyboard for air mail.  Currently 4 keyboards so far. 

The factory is still coming up with a quote for the one-piece keys but they need more time.  I am hoping that these costs can be reasonable because it would be even more costly to order $8-9k in Unicomp keys for the early bird orders and then try to see if it's economically possible to order one-piece key molds for the final round. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 08 May 2016, 11:29:50
I am thinking of making the ultra compact keyboard available before the prototype is ordered (currently I have the renderings that I posted on reddit) so that people can get their keyboard earlier - any thoughts?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: kekstee on Mon, 09 May 2016, 10:33:12
I don't really care about the earliest date but rather about the closing date. At this price point I can only consider to invest more after I hold a keyboard in my hands. Which is only after shipping + another month for customs processing.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 09 May 2016, 17:18:05
Yes kekstee I expect to delay the final round deadline to give everyone enough time for the early bird round orders to arrive.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 10 May 2016, 06:04:05
The factory sent me photos of the production barrels and flippers!  Currently they are going into storage until the factory gets the other parts of the inner assembly made.

I thought it was a nice touch to label each box professionally with the barrel and flipper image (I guess that's the best way to keep track of small production runs like this one) - I'm hoping they send me the empty boxes (maybe fill it with some finished keyboards or other accessories of course) :)

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Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: joey on Tue, 10 May 2016, 06:12:30
Looking good :thumb:

Question: are you planning on making a 1.75u non-stepped right shift? If so, is it too late to change the layout of my order?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 10 May 2016, 16:46:29
yes joey.  The factory is still working on the quotation for the keys.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: jjnist on Tue, 10 May 2016, 23:54:52
Love progress pics. Keep it up
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 11 May 2016, 18:23:05
Yes the factory is great to send these production photos over.  They have been so patient with me throughout the process.  I don't think it's a normal request they usually receive!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: joey on Wed, 11 May 2016, 18:29:19
Is it too late to change the layout of my order? (I wasn't sure what your "yes joey" was in your previous post).
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 11 May 2016, 18:34:10
sorry joey the yes was in reply to your question:  Question: are you planning on making a 1.75u non-stepped right shift? If so, is it too late to change the layout of my order?

And sure you can change the layout - please PM me what you want to change. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 15 May 2016, 13:19:02
You can now order the ultra compact case F62 or F77!  To avoid duplicate posts please see my IC thread and keep discussion on the small cases over there.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73363.msg2171355#msg2171355
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 17 May 2016, 17:52:48
And there will be time before the end of the final round to see a small case prototype keyboard of both F62 and F77 before ordering the ultra compact case versions, if you'd prefer to wait.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Tue, 17 May 2016, 21:59:10
And there will be time before the end of the final round to see a small case prototype keyboard of both F62 and F77 before ordering the ultra compact case versions, if you'd prefer to wait.


Good to know because I would first want to receive my first purchase of your keyboard and use it to see whether or not to buy another version with this 'newer', compact shape.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 18 May 2016, 18:09:18
And there will be time before the end of the final round to see a small case prototype keyboard of both F62 and F77 before ordering the ultra compact case versions, if you'd prefer to wait.

I needed to extend the final round deadline because I definitely underestimated the time it takes for production in China - primarily because of all of the pre-production work on both my side and that the factory has to do.  I am still waiting on the quote for the keys (they are a few weeks late) and I could still use some help from any PCB designers out there who could take a look at the ultra compact xwhatsit controller - it is not working 100% reliably just yet - I posted a link to the discussion thread on the IC (please keep PCB discussion over there to avoid duplication). 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 24 May 2016, 17:46:47
An update on the case molds - unfortunately production of the case molds was delayed and is expected to start this week.  It was supposed to start a few weeks ago.  I am now expecting the keyboards to ship from China in July.  The factory stated that the molds would have been done earlier this month.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 25 May 2016, 00:19:38
It was supposed to start a few weeks ago.  I am now expecting the keyboards to ship from China in July.  The factory stated that the molds would have been done earlier this month.


Good to know that the Chinese look to have absorbed some good old Australian Style of work schedules, because we're famous for trying to get something done yesterday but it actually gets finished far into the future way past any deadlines.


Maybe that's why nothing is made here in my country anymore because of our type of behaviour and maybe that's fair, for any manufacturers to look elsewhere to get something done.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 25 May 2016, 17:21:33
Yep - I was too confident in their time estimates, but now I understand better that delays happen often during pre-production and production.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 29 May 2016, 13:40:03
Still looking for some help on getting the compact xwhatsit up and running for this project - any help would be appreciated!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 31 May 2016, 23:13:12
While I wait on the factory to get back to me (I've been going back and forth over details), I thought I'd post my responses to some of the interview questions from the Vice Motherboard article on mechanical keyboards and gaming.  Sorry it's a tl:dr for most!  The article was not about this project but the project was mentioned:  http://motherboard.vice.com/read/mechanical-keyboards-esports-logitech-steelseries

Please share your own thoughts on these questions too - I'd be interested in seeing other perspectives:

Regarding why I think mechanical keyboards are becoming increasingly popular, I think there are a number of factors.  One is definitely the expansion of the number of computer and gaming enthusiasts and the gaming and mechanical keyboard communities that have flourished in recent years (including reddit.com/MechanicalKeyboards, Geekhack, and Deskthority).  Another related factor is the massive growth of interest in technology in general, and not just by a subset of the population.  Many years ago it was not as common in my experience to be knowledgeable with using computers and smart phones and they were not as much an essential part of most people's lives, but nowadays almost everyone has a smart phone and/or tablet with them at all times and uses their devices constantly throughout every single day, and even young kids are better than their parents at the computer and are online and/or gaming daily.  With this acceptance of technology into the mainstream of our culture I think it has opened the door for millions of people to want and to seek out the best of what technology has to offer in a given product category:  the newest and best iPhone or Samsung Galaxy, a brand new flat screen large-format, high definition television, the best tablet, a state of the art (possibly custom-built) computer, a car with advanced computer integrations and safety features, a high-end home stereo/surround sound/sound bar setup, etc.  Many of the mass-produced keyboards with Cherry MX switches have centered their branding and marketing on being "gaming keyboards" but I feel that mechanical keyboards serve a significantly wider market as well and are even more important for the comfort and productivity of those who use computers every day, especially those who do a lot of typing.  I've spoken with many writers and programmers who love the Model F and other mechanical keyboards because their keyboard is one of the most important things they use every day and are willing to pay more for the best (many spend more hours typing on their keyboard than sleeping in their beds I'm sure!).  Many consider the buckling spring the best switch for typing.  This is one reason mechanical keyboards in general are gaining in popularity, but unfortunately, availability has been a real problem for new buckling spring keyboards.  Keyboards with those other switches are often your only choice if you are looking for a 60% compact or tenkeyless board, since there those form factors with buckling spring switches either don't exist or are rare and can only be acquired second-hand.

The process and history of the project:  I have been a collector of IBM buckling spring keyboards for years and was able to acquire a number of Model F keyboards through my network of IT recycler contacts, but no 62-key "Kishsaver" Model F keyboards.  (A note on the naming conventions of this project:  While the brand new Model F keyboards from this project can support any number of keys, I chose model names that reflect their original key counts; hence they were named F62 and F77.)  To no avail I spent a while looking for more 62-key F62 Kishsavers and 77-key F77 keyboards.  Given the high interest for Kishsavers and 77-key Model F keyboards and the non-existent supply, as well as my own interest in a Kishsaver, I looked into what it would cost to bring these great keyboards with metal cases back into production, working on the CAD files and discussing ideas with a number of professional engineers, PCB designers, product designers, and many others, some of whom contribute to the DT/GH/reddit forums.  I was also inspired by the significant interest and discussions on the forums regarding bringing back the Model F buckling spring keyboard.  This project is definitely not a one man show - I could not have done this project without the help of so many community members, especially xwhatsit for inventing a reliable capacitive controller replacement for Model F keyboards, as well as many others sharing their thoughts with me on the forums and over PM's and emails.  I have learned a lot along the way about manufacturing, PCBs, materials, micrometer measurement, CAD (computer aided design), and about the specifications of Model F keyboards.  This is a unique project in that it is the first one to bring back Model F buckling spring technology, which has been out of production for essentially 25+ years.  I had to pay for all the tooling, CNC milling and molds - with no guarantees of success.  Another forum member pointed out that the Cherry MX and other custom keyboard projects have lower production costs as the individual key mechanisms are pre-made, unlike Model F components.  I have been working with my China contacts for about a year and a half on a number of projects so it was not difficult for me to work with them on this project.  My past projects included mass production of xwhatsit's PCB's that allowed older IBM keyboards to be USB, have full NKRO, and function on today's computer equipment.

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 01 June 2016, 18:45:35
An update from the factory - with CNC photos!

The zinc case molds are currently in their first stage of production - initial CNC milling.  The factory rep kindly took some photos for us - for them it was probably a strange request!

The molds are far from completed and are expected to be ready in about 2-3 weeks from now.

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Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: romevi on Wed, 01 June 2016, 18:55:24
Ooh... Pretty...
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: tommyonsn on Fri, 03 June 2016, 07:32:00
I love these keyboard! but they are so expensive... :eek:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 03 June 2016, 18:21:08
Yes they are expensive now given the low production volume and high manufacturing standards, but wait until the final round ends :).  I'm sure some people are buying extra brand new keyboards to sell at a higher price once in the coming months after the group buy ends.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Fri, 03 June 2016, 21:29:04
Yes they are expensive now given the low production volume and high manufacturing standards, but wait until the final round ends :) .  I'm sure some people are buying extra brand new keyboards to sell at a higher price once in the coming months after the group buy ends.

Those buying EXTRAS, will definitely post them on Ebay and watch the addicts go crazy for them  ;) .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: 3K on Sun, 05 June 2016, 09:43:13
Yes they are expensive now given the low production volume and high manufacturing standards, but wait until the final round ends :) .  I'm sure some people are buying extra brand new keyboards to sell at a higher price once in the coming months after the group buy ends.

Those buying EXTRAS, will definitely post them on Ebay and watch the addicts go crazy for them  ;) .

I think this is the case with nearly every product you encounter when spending time on GH. Just look at artisans and keysets ...

Apropos, are the ultra compact cases still avaible after the GB ends? Probably not, right?  ;D
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 05 June 2016, 11:36:33
Sorry 3K, the ultra compact cases are part of the final round of this GB.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Sun, 05 June 2016, 14:55:55
When do orders close for the final round?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 05 June 2016, 17:36:11
Not sure yet.  Probably a month or two after early bird round orders are delivered.  The case molds were delayed over a month so we are behind schedule.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Sun, 05 June 2016, 18:48:39
Not sure yet.  Probably a month or two after early bird round orders are delivered.  The case molds were delayed over a month so we are behind schedule.

Just wanted to make sure I had some time. Any chance at a testing meet up?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 06 June 2016, 16:38:43
Yep I'm up for a testing meetup in Manhattan.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Mon, 06 June 2016, 19:34:29
Yep I'm up for a testing meetup in Manhattan.

Awesome I'd love to try one out.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 07 June 2016, 19:23:27
Anyone else up for a meetup in a couple months?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: TieuNgu on Tue, 07 June 2016, 21:08:10
So Ellipse, is the USB cable for the F62 not detachable?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 07 June 2016, 23:00:36
The USB cables are detachable for all keyboards.  For the ultra compact case I expect the USB to be detachable without needing to open the case.

Currently there is an issue with extra voltage on the xwhatsit controller which was recently redesigned for the ultra compact cases to allow the cables to be detachable from the outside.  If anyone who knows electrical engineering/circuit design can help please PM me - I think that the resistor/capacitor values may need to change as the trace lengths are shorter.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: TieuNgu on Wed, 08 June 2016, 20:57:55
The USB cables are detachable for all keyboards.  For the ultra compact case I expect the USB to be detachable without needing to open the case.

Currently there is an issue with extra voltage on the xwhatsit controller which was recently redesigned for the ultra compact cases to allow the cables to be detachable from the outside.  If anyone who knows electrical engineering/circuit design can help please PM me - I think that the resistor/capacitor values may need to change as the trace lengths are shorter.

Does it take so long to open up the case? I prefer the look of the original case but I like to quickly detach the USB cable as I move around a lot
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 08 June 2016, 21:07:14
Nope it doesn't take long.  The case opens with 4 regular screws.

If you'd like to see a video showing the keyboard and opening it up please see here:

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 09 June 2016, 00:14:58
Nope it doesn't take long.  The case opens with 4 regular screws.

Good that it starts to get interesting, like opening a case box for a drive-train transimission.

Loving this more and more every time I see it.  Now this is what having a Model-F type keyboard should be  :thumb: . 

If you need to open it, break out a phillips and get busy, like working on a vehicle as such.

After viewing your vid I noticed how solid sounding it is when comparing it to any standard SSK or 101 Keyboard.  Has a deep thock but not sounding like a thorpie, almost like it's own sound especially designed for the Model-Fs.

Another thing here that has to be mentioned, is the USB cable which looks so flimsy and the way it connects to the PCB seems so detrimental.  Any Gorilla A-Hole can yank the cable out attached to the keyboard and quite possibly damage the connections, please say you will fix this when our models come to our front doors?

Never underestimate human-apes when keyboards are involved.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 09 June 2016, 06:42:40
Elrick yes I am including metal strain relief clips that attach to the USB cables in the original cases (not the compact cases) so that the cables will not be damaged, like the originals had attached to the original cord.  In the video I only had the clip installed on the F62 and not the F77 IIRC.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 09 June 2016, 07:36:52
In the video I only had the clip installed on the F62 and not the F77 IIRC.

Thank Gawd, I got worried since I bought the F77, the ONLY real Model-F keyboard every person on Earth should own  8) .

So anxious to receive mine, this GB is really shredding every last vestige of decency from me so now I'm picking fights with meek HHKB users.  This won't end well here at all........
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 11 June 2016, 16:26:20
A major milestone:  we passed $100,000 in orders this weekend (including shipping)!

Also an update - the F62/F77 case mold tooling is expected to be ready in the next 1-2 weeks.  Then the factory will send me for my approval a die cast sample, the very first die cast Model F part in 2+ decades!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Sat, 11 June 2016, 20:05:19
Also an update - the F62/F77 case mold tooling is expected to be ready in the next 1-2 weeks.  Then the factory will send me for my approval a die cast sample, the very first die cast Model F part in 2+ decades!

So it's COMING  :o .

Nice to see a proper resurrection of this famous Keyboard verses the Cherry Domination here on Earth.  Hope this keyboard fends off the insipid devotion to all the Thorpie and Cherry Clans and re-establish another Golden Empire of the Model-Fs.  May it rule a thousand years  :thumb: .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Sun, 12 June 2016, 10:56:25
A major milestone:  we passed $100,000 in orders this weekend (including shipping)!

Also an update - the F62/F77 case mold tooling is expected to be ready in the next 1-2 weeks.  Then the factory will send me for my approval a die cast sample, the very first die cast Model F part in 2+ decades!

Great update! Can't wait to see the first one. Itching to get my hands on mine at some point in the near future  :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ryahirv on Sun, 12 June 2016, 10:57:59
Just re-joined!  :-)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: henz on Mon, 13 June 2016, 03:39:42
cant wait, this is going to be awsome. What is the current timeline that the earlybirds will ship?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Mon, 13 June 2016, 03:48:49
cant wait, this is going to be awsome. What is the current timeline that the earlybirds will ship?
I try to forget I have this coming to me... but it's about all I think about...
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: henz on Mon, 13 June 2016, 04:06:45
cant wait, this is going to be awsome. What is the current timeline that the earlybirds will ship?
I try to forget I have this coming to me... but it's about all I think about...

i always have it in the back of my head, trying to find me some cool BS artisans :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 13 June 2016, 19:27:44
henz it's expected to ship from china in late july/august at the earliest.  then it takes probably a month to ship by sea mail to me, and then I have to test each one before shipping it.

For those who haven't been following recently, there were significant delays on the factory's side which was disappointing.  The molds for the die cast zinc cases went into production about a month later than the factory's initial timeline stated.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 13 June 2016, 22:11:15
henz it's expected to ship from china in late july/august at the earliest.  then it takes probably a month to ship by sea mail to me, and then I have to test each one before shipping it.

For those who haven't been following recently, there were significant delays on the factory's side which was disappointing.  The molds for the die cast zinc cases went into production about a month later than the factory's initial timeline stated.


Not worried here just as long as my F77 arrives at my Front door before the 25th of December 2016, then I'll be happy  ;D  .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: henz on Tue, 14 June 2016, 00:01:40
henz it's expected to ship from china in late july/august at the earliest.  then it takes probably a month to ship by sea mail to me, and then I have to test each one before shipping it.

For those who haven't been following recently, there were significant delays on the factory's side which was disappointing.  The molds for the die cast zinc cases went into production about a month later than the factory's initial timeline stated.

Thanks ill wait impatiently until then :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: tassadarforaiur on Tue, 14 June 2016, 10:15:36
Hey Ellipse. I know the new deadline isn't set it stone yet, but could you update op with a conservative new deadline please? Want to order a couple, but would like a better idea of how many other purchases I'll need to reprioritize to make it happen.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 14 June 2016, 20:22:02
I would say we will keep final round orders open at least until late November for anyone who wants a last minute holiday gift. 

So if you would prefer that your keyboard ships from China in late July/August at the earliest please order with the early bird round in the next month or so.

(cross-posted reply from the IC regarding the early bird deadlnie) Just a reminder that there is still time in the early bird round.  Sorry this was not clear.

The early bird deadline passed but I decided to make some extra units for the early bird round and keep accepting orders until stock runs out, then orders will be fulfilled in the final round after supply runs out (I'll put up a note on the web site when that happens).  But I would recommend ordering soon just so you don't have to wait an extra few months when I gather the final round orders.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ludovician on Wed, 15 June 2016, 07:19:19
What's the current state of the keycaps?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: nothing4me on Wed, 15 June 2016, 14:22:31
Can't decide between the normal case and the compact case... will we get pictures of it soon? The CAD pics on the site don't help too much.  :(

And open until November... nice! Maybe someone can upload pictures of their compact case?  :D
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: geniekid on Wed, 15 June 2016, 15:35:44
Can't decide between the normal case and the compact case... will we get pictures of it soon? The CAD pics on the site don't help too much.  :(

And open until November... nice! Maybe someone can upload pictures of their compact case?  :D

Me neither.  The collector side of me (the evil side I'm always trying to suppress) wants the OG case but the hobbyist side of me (the good side I'm always trying to nurture) wants the compact case.  :-\
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 15 June 2016, 17:25:28
I am going with the keycap mold production Ludovician.

nothing4me we will not be getting any compact case photos soon unfortunately.  I am focused on production of the original case keyboards but hope to get the ultra compact cases in the coming months (hopefully with or soon after the early bird shipment).  My goal for the ultra compact cases is a regular CNC milled aluminum custom keyboard case similar in appearance to the KMAC Mini or the like.

Some people are ordering just the spare ultra compact case (includes the ultra compact bottom inner assembly) if they can't decide between the cases and don't want to order extra full keyboards.  All other parts are expected to be interchangeable.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: nothing4me on Thu, 16 June 2016, 12:31:09
I am going with the keycap mold production Ludovician.

nothing4me we will not be getting any compact case photos soon unfortunately.  I am focused on production of the original case keyboards but hope to get the ultra compact cases in the coming months (hopefully with or soon after the early bird shipment).  My goal for the ultra compact cases is a regular CNC milled aluminum custom keyboard case similar in appearance to the KMAC Mini or the like.

Some people are ordering just the spare ultra compact case (includes the ultra compact bottom inner assembly) if they can't decide between the cases and don't want to order extra full keyboards.  All other parts are expected to be interchangeable.
Do you think we'll have photos of the compact case by November? I can wait until then. Thank you! :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 16 June 2016, 22:04:22
I am focused on production of the original case keyboards but hope to get the ultra compact cases in the coming months (hopefully with or soon after the early bird shipment).  My goal for the ultra compact cases is a regular CNC milled aluminum custom keyboard case similar in appearance to the KMAC Mini or the like.


Glad you are concentrating upon the TRUE Model-F believers instead of pleasing the Ultra Compact Crowd - FIRST  ;D .

Remember we are the first ones who jumped on into this Group Buy because we truly love the original style of the Model-F series.  All the later ones wanting HHKB styled keyboards, in truth should be ignored because they are not real keyboard enthusiasts like us here.  We don't want our Model-Fs looking like Cherry's, Realforce or HHKBs whatsoever.  All we want is an updated, true to form Model-F that shall last 100 years of use.

Accept the beauty as is because that is what the Model-F represents in all it's natural glory, a very sexy keyboard built for the authentic, keyboard zealot.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Colnor on Fri, 17 June 2016, 15:57:56
Hello all. I made my way to the forum while googling for a Model F122 and have spent the last few days reading these discussion threads. I am putting the F122 on the backburner and the F77 goes right to the top. I know the schedule has been stretched, but does the current June 30th deadline refer to the early-bird orders? And that there will be a second chance sign-up through November?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 19 June 2016, 15:08:04
Great Colnor!  Yes the original June 30 deadline has been extended most likely through the end of November.  The early bird round is ongoing (I made some extra units and orders will ship with the early bird round even if you order this month or next month, while supplies last) and then there will be a final round.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Sun, 19 June 2016, 19:58:57
Thanks for extended deadline. More time to sell off crap so I can buy something that matters.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 20 June 2016, 19:36:25
ThoughtArtist you are not the only one - quite a few people I've been chatting with are selling off some of their keyboards and other things for these Brand New Model F reproductions.

Does anyone have experience with product marketing and want to support the project?  I could definitely use some help/advice to get as many of these units made as possible before the end of the final round.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 21 June 2016, 19:35:13
Die cast metal case molds should be finished this week!  Here are some photos from the factory:

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
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[attachimg=5]
[attachimg=6]
[attachimg=7]
[attachimg=8]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Tue, 21 June 2016, 20:08:50
OMG NSFW!!!

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: nothing4me on Wed, 22 June 2016, 23:47:20
Die cast metal case molds should be finished this week!  Here are some photos from the factory:
:p This dirty ***** is going to be popping model Fs left and right.  :p
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 23 June 2016, 19:46:28
I wonder how much these molds weigh - they must be 100+ pounds I would think?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: raymogi on Thu, 23 June 2016, 19:47:08
I want mine to get shipped already :D
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Thu, 23 June 2016, 20:00:44
I wonder how much these molds weigh - they must be 100+ pounds I would think?
I bet, that second to last photo has a huge chunk of metal in it!!!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 23 June 2016, 21:28:08
I wonder how much these molds weigh - they must be 100+ pounds I would think?


Depends upon the material being flushed into it to form a case.  If it's molten metal then the casing has to be special hardened steel so as to absorb the temps correctly and form the necessary structure whilst it cools.


When it spits out the casing it readies for the next formation.  Usually molds such as this have a limited lifespan compared to plastic injection, which can shoot out millions+.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Fri, 24 June 2016, 21:20:12
ThoughtArtist you are not the only one - quite a few people I've been chatting with are selling off some of their keyboards and other things for these Brand New Model F reproductions.

Does anyone have experience with product marketing and want to support the project?  I could definitely use some help/advice to get as many of these units made as possible before the end of the final round.

Try to get ArsTechnica to do a story on this.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 26 June 2016, 11:02:39
A general update for those who have not been following the thread too closely:  There are over 200 keyboard orders (over $105,000 in orders) so far for the early bird round.

The thousands of barrels and flippers finished production (photos posted earlier in the thread). The die cast metal case mold photos were posted a few days ago (the cases are expected to go into production this week). There were significant production delays on the factory's side on the die cast molds which put the project behind schedule.

I am extending the deadline to give time for early bird feedback before the final round closes (at least 1-2 months) so that you can hear others' opinions before making a decision if you'd like.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: nothing4me on Mon, 27 June 2016, 01:22:07
Thanks!  ;)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 04 July 2016, 11:06:30
The very first die cast F62 and F77 cases have been cast!  This week they will be powdercoated and mailed to me for approval. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: joey on Mon, 04 July 2016, 11:07:35
Pics when they arrive!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 04 July 2016, 20:00:48
The very first die cast F62 and F77 cases have been cast!  This week they will be powdercoated and mailed to me for approval.


 :o :o :o  It's Happening......bringing back the Model-F keyboard in it's ORIGINAL Design, what perfection.  :o :o :o
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Mon, 04 July 2016, 20:33:14
The very first die cast F62 and F77 cases have been cast!  This week they will be powdercoated and mailed to me for approval.


 :o :o :o  It's Happening......bringing back the Model-F keyboard in it's ORIGINAL Design, what perfection.  :o :o :o

The original design is robust, and I appreciate that, but I think the compact aluminum in HHKB layout is going to really be the showstopper here.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: axtran on Mon, 04 July 2016, 22:57:00
The original design is robust, and I appreciate that, but I think the compact aluminum in HHKB layout is going to really be the showstopper here.

Yeah, I'm tempted to swap to the smaller case and just wait-wait-wait, but there's something super nice about the big ass bezel of the kish, too :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: kawasaki161 on Tue, 05 July 2016, 00:01:34

Yeah, I'm tempted to swap to the smaller case and just wait-wait-wait, but there's something super nice about the big ass bezel of the kish, too :)
I'm tempted to get both cases and Swap the innards from one to the other every now and then.

I just remembered something, I don't know if it was already answered, but will the package be declared for full price for international orders or will it be a little less? For something this expensive I wouldn't mind paying a little VAT, but 19% on the full price (they even add the delivery price) is quite much. I'll wait with my order until I've seen the first ultra compact prototype and I hope the question will be answered until then, if not I'll just add the way I'd prefer it to be declared as in the order comments.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Tue, 05 July 2016, 22:24:05
but I think the compact aluminum in HHKB layout is going to really be the showstopper here.

Sorry SUNSHINE it won't be the show stopper here within this Reality  8) .

The F77 is STILL the absolute Keyboard of PERFECTION and the sooner you lamo's can come to terms with that, the better you'll feel about yourself for choosing the horrid HHKB disaster.

Bursting the bubble of some people who are completely deluded, is both a thrill and quite sad because eventually when they face the real world it's not always going to agree with them on their failed-choice  ;) .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Thu, 07 July 2016, 17:38:03
The original design is robust, and I appreciate that, but I think the compact aluminum in HHKB layout is going to really be the showstopper here.

Yeah, I'm tempted to swap to the smaller case and just wait-wait-wait, but there's something super nice about the big ass bezel of the kish, too :)

Yeah, actually I think I am going to just get the F-77 full-size case in ANSI layout, I just wanted to see what Elrick would say to that.. " Sunshine" LOL.

But... I believe if I were going to tote the board with me, then I would get an aluminum case just for practical reasons if nothing else. Having both to swap would be cool though. I think this will mainly be a special use home-board for me so I'll probably just get the zinc-alloy diecast. I pretty much have to choose just one, so it's going to be the classic one, but I would like to get 1 of each option!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 08 July 2016, 21:27:54
yep ThoughtArtist you can order one keyboard of each type of case :), or you can save funds and order just a spare ultra compact case which includes the bottom inner assembly - the rest of the parts are all interchangeable between cases.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 10 July 2016, 22:07:53
The very first die cast Model F keyboard cases to come out of the Brand New Model F metal molds, with no secondary finishing operations or powdercoating done yet:

The factory did a good job with these.  My first few months working on this project last year, I didn't know that the die cast metal parts came out "rough" out of a mold, lines and marks and all, and then had to be fixed up.

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
[attachimg=6]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: joey on Mon, 11 July 2016, 03:51:28
 :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: potatowire on Mon, 11 July 2016, 14:34:36
The very first die cast Model F keyboard cases to come out of the Brand New Model F metal molds, with no secondary finishing operations or powdercoating done yet:

The factory did a good job with these.  My first few months working on this project last year, I didn't know that the die cast metal parts came out "rough" out of a mold, lines and marks and all, and then had to be fixed up.

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Beautiful!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: sleepy916 on Mon, 11 July 2016, 17:33:29
I haven't been on much but glad to see this is going as planned. ;)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Mon, 11 July 2016, 21:51:41
How much do these weigh by themselves? Also, is that an indentation on the lip of the F62?

Honestly, I believe this is the first raw die-cast I have seen. It's pretty interesting!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 12 July 2016, 18:16:51
ThoughtArtist I am getting these pictured molds sent to me by the factory so I will know in a few days.  It could be a reflection or some other mark - as a reminder those photos are before they go through the secondary finishing operations.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Tue, 12 July 2016, 22:52:54
Sounds good. It looks like this is shaping up to be a true typing instrument.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 13 July 2016, 18:43:15
The pictured die cast metal cases are set to arrive tomorrow!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 14 July 2016, 19:45:09
The very first die cast metal cases arrived today and they are great!  These sample cases are even heavier than the originals!  The F77 is about 1.2 pounds heavier than my original F77 and the F62 is about 0.9 lbs heavier than kishy's original F62 Kishsaver.

Kishy's original F62 weighing 3,025 grams:  http://kishy.ca/?attachment_id=956

[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=3]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Thu, 14 July 2016, 19:56:43
That's really impressive! One could break their foot with one of these of they weren't careful. With the density and all metal design, it makes me wonder what the sound signature of those would be compared to the XT. I would imagine these would have the best sound, as far as crispness and sounding solid? I'm not a sound engineer or musician so it's hard for me to really describe.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 14 July 2016, 21:08:39
The very first die cast metal cases arrived today and they are great!  These sample cases are even heavier than the originals!  The F77 is about 1.2 pounds heavier than my original F77 and the F62 is about 0.9 lbs heavier than kishy's original F62 Kishsaver.

YES, a genuine SKULL Crusher Keyboard.

Who the hell needs a Glock when you've got one of these babies, ready for action  8) .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: TieuNgu on Thu, 14 July 2016, 21:13:18
are these supposed to be the ultra compact case?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: stoic-lemon on Thu, 14 July 2016, 21:25:41
are these supposed to be the ultra compact case?
No.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Pemdas on Thu, 14 July 2016, 21:30:46
The very first die cast metal cases arrived today and they are great!  These sample cases are even heavier than the originals!  The F77 is about 1.2 pounds heavier than my original F77 and the F62 is about 0.9 lbs heavier than kishy's original F62 Kishsaver.

Kishy's original F62 weighing 3,025 grams:  http://kishy.ca/?attachment_id=956

Awesome! Looks like everything is coming along really nicely! Those cases look like beasts!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: guy12 on Thu, 14 July 2016, 21:39:56
Is the standard grey exactly like the color in the picture?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 14 July 2016, 21:45:09
ThoughtArtist I am not sure how the final units will sound exactly.  In my experience every Model F in my collection sounds different, but overall it is a crisp, sharp sound with varying levels of reverberation. 

guy12 these are the raw cases that have not been finished/powdercoated.  The gray color should be similar to an IBM Industrial SSK and the beige/off white color should be similar to the original F77 and F62 keyboards.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: dante on Fri, 15 July 2016, 09:27:45
The very first die cast metal cases arrived today and they are great!  These sample cases are even heavier than the originals!  The F77 is about 1.2 pounds heavier than my original F77 and the F62 is about 0.9 lbs heavier than kishy's original F62 Kishsaver.

YES, a genuine SKULL Crusher Keyboard.

Who the hell needs a Glock when you've got one of these babies, ready for action  8) .

The problem is getting a hernia from swinging this thing.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: guy12 on Fri, 15 July 2016, 11:17:46
Is the powdercoat going to look like this? :D


http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-QandA-1.jpg
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Fri, 15 July 2016, 12:02:09
Is the powdercoat going to look like this? :D


http://norbauerwebshareassets.blob.core.windows.net/props/novatouch-QandA-1.jpg

Ellipse said it would be similar to the Industrial SSK's finish. So more like this

http://images.lmgtfy.com/?q=IBM+Industrial+SSK#
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: guy12 on Fri, 15 July 2016, 12:58:46
Oh, it's just in the order options I see black. Was it changed to grey and beige then, or is there still a possibility of black?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Fri, 15 July 2016, 13:19:11
From the Q&A on their site - " Sorry, I do not have photos of what the black will look like. It will likely be a matte powdercoated black."

I think I would really like the matte black look actually. Hoping it would look similar to this

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__sM1womg3hs/S8dwGSS0n9I/AAAAAAAAABk/3qQ_mu9YrSE/s1600/Option+5+Texture+2.jpg

Snoopy powdercoated his kish black as well but I'm not sure how matte it is.

http://abload.de/img/img_033601kmw.jpg
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: guy12 on Fri, 15 July 2016, 14:10:54
Gotcha, thanks for the answers!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Fri, 15 July 2016, 16:23:41
Oh I'm counting the days!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 15 July 2016, 18:14:43
I expect to receive powdercoated case samples in the different colors offered (off white, industrial gray, silver gray, true red, and black) in a couple weeks but it is difficult to photograph powdercoated paint accurately in my opinion.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 17 July 2016, 12:09:20
$120,000+ in orders so far (including shipping)!

Here's the order breakdown for HHKB split right shift vs. standard style shift:  about 114 split right shift keyboards ordered out of 265 keyboards ordered so far (43% of keyboards ordered up to now will be HHKB style split right shift).
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: kawasaki161 on Sun, 17 July 2016, 12:16:00
$120,000+ in orders so far (including shipping)!

Here's the order breakdown for HHKB split right shift vs. standard style shift:  about 114 split right shift keyboards ordered out of 265 keyboards ordered so far (43% of keyboards ordered up to now will be HHKB style split right shift).

Damn, that's a lot of orders and I still have to order one (gonna wait for the first real life pictures of the ultra compact first though).

The split right shift thing does not suprise me, on a keyboard with layers this is one of the most ergonomic methods of switching layers, at least in my opinion.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 22 July 2016, 09:27:18
An update - the PCBs are expected to go into production next week.  Everyone is getting the compact xwhatsit controller that uses the standard 0.1" pitch ribbon cable. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Sat, 23 July 2016, 01:10:10
An update - the PCBs are expected to go into production next week.  Everyone is getting the compact xwhatsit controller that uses the standard 0.1" pitch ribbon cable.

Give it, Give it, Give it Ellipse - Give it, Give it, Give it Ellipse - Give it, Give it, Give it Ellipse   8)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Mon, 25 July 2016, 14:57:27
Sounds good.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Pestik on Tue, 26 July 2016, 03:05:56
I'm still trying to decide which version to buy (too many options!), but after looking through most of this thread and also the linked website I can't find an updated date for the end of the regular round. I know that it was extended, but for planning purposes I'd love to know the concrete end date.

Also, looking at the raw die cast cases I'm thinking a polished metal finish would have been an interesting option, although it would be a fingerprint/oil magnet.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 26 July 2016, 14:43:47
Pestik I am thinking end of November.  You can go for the ultra compact cases if you like the metal look, as those are hard anodized, though I recommend the classic style, original cases which the vast majority are going with.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 27 July 2016, 20:10:43
You can go for the ultra compact cases if you like the metal look, as those are hard anodized, though I recommend the classic style, original cases which the vast majority are going with.

If you aint into CLASSICS then look elsewhere, this keyboard is NOT for that geezer.  The Model-F is unique and anyone that say they love using a Model-F, MUST accept it's true form with no adulteration whatsoever.

It's like asking for a Dodge Challenger then adding Hyundai Panels to it, God have mercy on your Soul for ever doing that type of sick and perverted thing  8) .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ThoughtArtist on Thu, 28 July 2016, 00:08:14
You can go for the ultra compact cases if you like the metal look, as those are hard anodized, though I recommend the classic style, original cases which the vast majority are going with.

If you aint into CLASSICS then look elsewhere, this keyboard is NOT for that geezer.  The Model-F is unique and anyone that say they love using a Model-F, MUST accept it's true form with no adulteration whatsoever.

It's like asking for a Dodge Challenger then adding Hyundai Panels to it, God have mercy on your Soul for ever doing that type of sick and perverted thing  8) .

I like classics, but in this case, modernization can be a good thing. When these keyboards where originally made, portability and mouse usage where not considered like they are today. Modern computing is much different than in 1984 with its rigid, dedicated terminals. I appreciate the classic design, but I also have to think about how I actually use a computer now. A modernized, lighter weight and space saving design that keeps the core desired typing technology the same fits into this.

This is a simple evolution, which will be much welcomed by some who appreciate Model F buckling spring technology but want a more versatile design to fit their current needs.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: guy12 on Thu, 04 August 2016, 16:00:28
Which case style has the best typing feeling? I've heard there are differences between plastic and aluminum cases.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: digi on Thu, 04 August 2016, 16:05:19
You can go for the ultra compact cases if you like the metal look, as those are hard anodized, though I recommend the classic style, original cases which the vast majority are going with.

If you aint into CLASSICS then look elsewhere, this keyboard is NOT for that geezer.  The Model-F is unique and anyone that say they love using a Model-F, MUST accept it's true form with no adulteration whatsoever.

It's like asking for a Dodge Challenger then adding Hyundai Panels to it, God have mercy on your Soul for ever doing that type of sick and perverted thing  8) .

I like classics, but in this case, modernization can be a good thing. When these keyboards where originally made, portability and mouse usage where not considered like they are today. Modern computing is much different than in 1984 with its rigid, dedicated terminals. I appreciate the classic design, but I also have to think about how I actually use a computer now. A modernized, lighter weight and space saving design that keeps the core desired typing technology the same fits into this.

This is a simple evolution, which will be much welcomed by some who appreciate Model F buckling spring technology but want a more versatile design to fit their current needs.

Just look at the evolution of the guy in your avatar, he's so much more knowledgeable than Elrick..but then again, he's probably not drunk or angry either. :o
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 04 August 2016, 19:56:52
Just look at the evolution of the guy in your avatar, he's so much more knowledgeable than Elrick..but then again, he's probably not drunk or angry either. :o

So if no one believes with your view point then they MUST be either drunk or angry well in the REAL world, that is what is known as a Free Discussion.

Shall NEVER select a keyboard that wants to copy itself as an Idiot HHKB because if I ever loved it, I would purchase it BUT never delude myself into thinking that every custom made keyboard on this planet, should look exactly like my HHKB  ;) .  If you want a portable Keyboard isn't the HHKB exactly that to begin with?  For the limp-wristed here the Model-F version will NOT be lighter than any of your HHKBs so where does that leave you when it comes to moving it about?  All you would have done is disfigure an original keyboard that was never suppose to be portable hence it's size and weight.  All those crying about weight, shall be leaving their HHKB disfigurements at home because surprise, surprise it is still too heavy for them to carry around.

You lot here know nothing about acquiring and using different styles of keyboards and enjoying them for what they offer, something completely different from any Cherry or Thorpie creation.  The Model-F was and always will be the Perfect Keyboard from a bygone era (once manufactured in the US), that is being resurrected for all of us here today.  Appreciate it's original form because it's beautiful as is.  Sorry if I don't want to felch you for approval sunshine but this is the REAL world and thus far, expressing my viewpoints will never be restricted when it comes to this truly REAL Model-F Keyboard.

Clint Eastwood is right, you lot are completely overly sensitive to everything, time to find a pair and man up here, instead of crying about what someone says - typical youngsters always thinking everyone needs to keep them happy and worshiped on a constant basis to help them feel valued in Life, unfortunately for you lot here it will never happen  8) .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 04 August 2016, 19:58:14
guy12 none of the case options are plastic - the case choices are between aluminum and zinc.  The original style cases will all be zinc and the ultra compact cases will all be aluminum, with some exceptions possibly if you request a zinc case. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 04 August 2016, 21:09:37
A production update: 

The PCBs are going into production this week or next week. 

I am also ordering custom made ribbon cables for this project - two 15 position cables like IBM's originals but with the more standard 0.1" pitch of the compact xwhatsit controllers.  The factory will solder and assemble everything so it arrives ready to use for everyone of course.

The original style cases are continuing to be a bottleneck.  I recently rejected the factory's powdercoating samples airmailed from China as not being in line with my standards and in the original Model F style.  I know everyone is eager to get their shipments delivered but I won't sacrifice my quality standards to get these out a month or two earlier - we are only doing these once and I want them done right!

Here are photos of the very first powdercoated zinc Model F cases.  Please disregard the colors of the photos and the powdercoating textured finish as they are not accurate.  I expect to be getting more samples in hand later this month.

And in case you haven't been following the thread in recent months, the barrels and flippers finished production about a month or so ago.

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Fri, 05 August 2016, 01:44:51
A production update: 

Here are photos of the very first powdercoated zinc Model F cases.  Please disregard the colors of the photos and the powdercoating textured finish as they are not accurate.  I expect to be getting more samples in hand later this month.

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Brings tears to my old eyes here  :'( .

Such perfection but still retaining it's OLD world charm, like what nature intended.  When it aint broke why modify it, keep it beautiful as is  :thumb: .

Over time most will forget about the normal, boring layouts but this one will still ring true when used.  Always loved this layout and I hope it soon will be completed to provide everyone a glimpse of what refinement really looks and feels like.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: cjhard on Fri, 05 August 2016, 08:19:12
How off is the color actually? It's hard to tell with pictures, and GMK Triumph Adler has taught me pictures can show hugely different colors between shots of the same shoot.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 05 August 2016, 17:55:22
That's right cjhard.  I will only be able to check the colors and powdercoating quality when I have them in hand - I can't tell from the photos.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: digi on Fri, 05 August 2016, 17:59:12
Just look at the evolution of the guy in your avatar, he's so much more knowledgeable than Elrick..but then again, he's probably not drunk or angry either. :o

So if no one believes with your view point then they MUST be either drunk or angry well in the REAL world, that is what is known as a Free Discussion.

Shall NEVER select a keyboard that wants to copy itself as an Idiot HHKB because if I ever loved it, I would purchase it BUT never delude myself into thinking that every custom made keyboard on this planet, should look exactly like my HHKB  ;) .  If you want a portable Keyboard isn't the HHKB exactly that to begin with?  For the limp-wristed here the Model-F version will NOT be lighter than any of your HHKBs so where does that leave you when it comes to moving it about?  All you would have done is disfigure an original keyboard that was never suppose to be portable hence it's size and weight.  All those crying about weight, shall be leaving their HHKB disfigurements at home because surprise, surprise it is still too heavy for them to carry around.

You lot here know nothing about acquiring and using different styles of keyboards and enjoying them for what they offer, something completely different from any Cherry or Thorpie creation.  The Model-F was and always will be the Perfect Keyboard from a bygone era (once manufactured in the US), that is being resurrected for all of us here today.  Appreciate it's original form because it's beautiful as is.  Sorry if I don't want to felch you for approval sunshine but this is the REAL world and thus far, expressing my viewpoints will never be restricted when it comes to this truly REAL Model-F Keyboard.

Clint Eastwood is right, you lot are completely overly sensitive to everything, time to find a pair and man up here, instead of crying about what someone says - typical youngsters always thinking everyone needs to keep them happy and worshiped on a constant basis to help them feel valued in Life, unfortunately for you lot here it will never happen  8) .

TL;DR
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: cjhard on Sat, 06 August 2016, 09:47:34
That's right cjhard.  I will only be able to check the colors and powdercoating quality when I have them in hand - I can't tell from the photos.

Was the powdercoating in the photo's not what you had recently rejected? Or was it the colors on the aluminum prototype cases you had already received what you've rejected? I must have skimmed your update and thought the colors pictured were in hand and rejected.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 06 August 2016, 12:48:35
cjhard I rejected the color samples and also the powdercoating.  The ones in the photos were of one of their most recent attempt and are not being sent to me just yet.  Once they have accurate colors and powdercoating I expect to be mailed a set of samples.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Giorgio on Sat, 06 August 2016, 13:12:23
Sorry for my ignorance, I just wonder why are you using a curved plate when all modern keycaps are optimized for a flat plate.

This could be important in the future, when you will probably start to offer mx adapters, which I suppose will be retro compatible with the already sold keyboard!  :cool:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 06 August 2016, 13:15:47
Giorgio the Model M and Model F keys do not function on a flat back plate.  The goal of the project is to reproduce the original Model F keyboards.  I will not be offering adapters.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Giorgio on Sat, 06 August 2016, 13:18:35
Giorgio the Model M and Model F keys do not function on a flat back plate.  The goal of the project is to reproduce the original Model F keyboards.  I will not be offering adapters.

No cherry mx adapters? I must have made a mix - up with another project  :eek:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: guy12 on Sat, 06 August 2016, 16:43:00
Really want to get unprinted black keycaps and black case, but worried about the right shift key. Are there any other vendors that sell one, or can you combine the black caps lock and unit key to form a shift?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 06 August 2016, 18:39:40
I am making the black right shift key so not to worry.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: joey on Sat, 06 August 2016, 18:41:08
Can you update on the key set situation? I might want to order 2 sets of your keys, but not sure what's actually being made.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 06 August 2016, 18:45:53
What do you mean joey?  I am making full one piece key sets in standard pearl/pebble and also black.  You can order spare key sets now on the modelfkeyboards.com site.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: joey on Sat, 06 August 2016, 18:55:45
What do you mean joey?  I am making full one piece key sets in standard pearl/pebble and also black.  You can order spare key sets now on the modelfkeyboards.com site.
You answered it :P

My order already comes with a set, does that only include the keys on the board, or the full 103 set?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 06 August 2016, 18:57:32
Every keyboard with keys comes with a full set of keys, not just the ones on the keyboard.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: joey on Sat, 06 August 2016, 19:00:36
Every keyboard with keys comes with a full set of keys, not just the ones on the keyboard.
Great! I don't know if I'll order another set, not really a fan of blanks.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 06 August 2016, 19:04:05
My sets come with the legends (dye sublimated) as well - not just blanks. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: guy12 on Sat, 06 August 2016, 20:49:30
Thanks for the quick reply! Will the black right shift ship with the keyboard orders, or do we buy it separately?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 06 August 2016, 21:03:47
guy12 it will ship if you order a blank black set - no extra cost.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: guy12 on Sat, 06 August 2016, 21:28:25
Sweet! :D
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 08 August 2016, 21:54:35
Here is a photo from the custom made ribbon cable production which should finish soon.  Two 15 position ribbon cables attach the capacitive PCB to the controller PCB, just like the original but with the modern day 0.1" ribbon pitch.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ir0n on Tue, 09 August 2016, 03:29:10

Here are photos of the very first powdercoated zinc Model F cases.  Please disregard the colors of the photos and the powdercoating textured finish as they are not accurate.  I expect to be getting more samples in hand later this month.


Will all colors have that textured finish like the true red? ;o
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: joey on Tue, 09 August 2016, 03:31:06
My sets come with the legends (dye sublimated) as well - not just blanks.
The black sets are only blank.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 09 August 2016, 22:29:24
right Joey.

And here is an update on the case molds.  The factory has finally completed their draft powdercoating and color mixing of all color options and will be mailing me the sample case parts this week. 

Please note that the colors below are not at all accurate and I hope to take better photos once the samples are in hand.

That being said, the True Red color looks really nice in these photos when powdercoated - this is an "early bird" only limited edition color offering and is an extra cost option (silver gray is the same thing).

[attachimg=9]
[attachimg=10]
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
[attachimg=6]
[attachimg=7]
[attachimg=8]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ir0n on Tue, 09 August 2016, 23:21:31
Oh damn the red looking nice!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Jedi on Tue, 09 August 2016, 23:45:56
Did someone say red?  :p
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: henz on Wed, 10 August 2016, 03:15:54
Getting there!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: raymogi on Wed, 10 August 2016, 07:05:51
Is it possible to get a blank black keyset if I order the F62 with split backspace?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 10 August 2016, 07:07:34
Yes
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: joey on Wed, 10 August 2016, 07:18:25
right Joey.

And here is an update on the case molds.  The factory has finally completed their draft powdercoating and color mixing of all color options and will be mailing me the sample case parts this week. 

Please note that the colors below are not at all accurate and I hope to take better photos once the samples are in hand.

That being said, the True Red color looks really nice in these photos when powdercoated - this is an "early bird" only limited edition color offering and is an extra cost option (silver gray is the same thing).

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Red
Black
Indsutrial
?whatcolouristhat?
Beige
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: juahenza on Wed, 10 August 2016, 08:34:19
no regret on the black. sexy af
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: jorgenslee on Wed, 10 August 2016, 09:02:21
That looks amazing. Still have not decided if I go with classic or compact case. I'm curious how powerdercoating holds up in time?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 10 August 2016, 20:20:48
joey that fourth color is a custom titanium/silver gray color

jorgenslee I recommend the classic original style case.  The powdercoating is very solid feeling, at least on the prototype cases.  I think the powdercoating can hold up for several decades like the originals, but only time will tell I guess.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Thu, 11 August 2016, 02:11:10
Hi Ellipse, just to confirm, anyone who ordered blank black or std. pearl/pebble will get the keys you are making automatically and will get non-stepped keys where applicable?

The colours are all looking amazing! No regrets on black either, so sexy. Although now I am thinking I might need the industrial too!  :-\
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 11 August 2016, 07:14:11
Yep confirmed atlas.  Yes some people are ordering spare cases in different colors before production ends in a few months.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: 3K on Fri, 12 August 2016, 05:46:59
right Joey.

And here is an update on the case molds.  The factory has finally completed their draft powdercoating and color mixing of all color options and will be mailing me the sample case parts this week. 

Please note that the colors below are not at all accurate and I hope to take better photos once the samples are in hand.

That being said, the True Red color looks really nice in these photos when powdercoated - this is an "early bird" only limited edition color offering and is an extra cost option (silver gray is the same thing).

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Is it just me or seems the Industrial more moss green?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: raymogi on Fri, 12 August 2016, 05:53:24
Ellipse I PMed you about my order. Did you get it? :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 12 August 2016, 06:31:32
3K please disregard the colors on the photos.  I will be getting the cases in hand next week and will verify the colors then.

Ray I responded.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 14 August 2016, 15:33:14
We are up to 278 keyboards ordered!  128 of F62 and 150 of F77.  Of those orders, there are 11 F62 compact case keyboards and 20 F77 compact case orders.

Other notable totals:
About 37 Industrial SSK keycap sets
4 DHL Express shipping upgrades (save a few weeks and be the among the first to get your keyboard)
About 900 extra barrels and 1,200 extra flippers and springs (everyone gets the bulk discount price throughout the end of the final round)
9 Apple/Mac Command-Option Key sets
29 extra inner foam orders
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: r5d on Mon, 15 August 2016, 05:33:38
Orders are open until October 31, right? I'm saving up to get a F77 from this production run but I might not get there before mid October.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 15 August 2016, 06:05:43
They will be open until November at this point.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 15 August 2016, 20:03:20
The powdercoated case samples came in today and the factory did a good job.  I will be asking the factory to add a little more gray to darken the Off-White/Beige paint color, and the Silver Gray color is a little too bluish/too light. 

Industrial Gray was a close match to my original IBM Industrial SSK plastic case; True Red and Black also came out well.

The powdercoating on the Brand New Model F keyboards is in my view an even higher quality process than that of the originals - it feels a lot more protective and less likely to flake - but time will tell I guess. 

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
[attachimg=6]
[attachimg=7]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: romevi on Mon, 15 August 2016, 20:42:16
The powdercoated case samples came in today and the factory did a good job.  I will be asking the factory to add a little more gray to darken the Off-White/Beige paint color, and the Silver Gray color is a little too bluish/too light. 

Industrial Gray was a close match to my original IBM Industrial SSK plastic case; True Red and Black also came out well.

The powdercoating on the Brand New Model F keyboards is in my view an even higher quality process than that of the originals - it feels a lot more protective and less likely to flake - but time will tell I guess. 

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

That red is so vibrant!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: KetchyKech on Mon, 15 August 2016, 21:29:21
Looks great ~ I'm pleased that I selected Red, but black surprised me~ may have to grab an extra black compact case  :thumb:

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Mon, 15 August 2016, 23:40:09
I hope that's my early bird black case xD... a man can dream!!!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: kidgyu on Tue, 16 August 2016, 01:27:21
Hi, I ordered early bird and selected color is beige.
But when I see the red/black color, I'm fall in love that.
Can I change the color of my order??
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: henz on Tue, 16 August 2016, 06:08:40
i dont even remember what i ordered. Is there a way that i can check it?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ir0n on Tue, 16 August 2016, 10:00:29
I have a question about the keys. Where do you order them and what colors are you doing? I didn't even know you was doing XT style keys.

Are you doing some brilliant white sets and different colored legends?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: romevi on Tue, 16 August 2016, 11:02:07
I have a question about the keys. Where do you order them and what colors are you doing? I didn't even know you was doing XT style keys.

Are you doing some brilliant white sets and different colored legends?

Unicomp sells the keycaps: http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/Buttons.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 16 August 2016, 16:59:28
Ir0n I am making the keys.  The key options are on the following page on the web site:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/set-of-xt-quality-one-piece-keys/

Unicomp will be supplying most of the custom sets and keys like brilliant white, etc.

henz I re-sent your order confirmation.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: henz on Wed, 17 August 2016, 13:23:13
Ir0n I am making the keys.  The key options are on the following page on the web site:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/set-of-xt-quality-one-piece-keys/

Unicomp will be supplying most of the custom sets and keys like brilliant white, etc.

henz I re-sent your order confirmation.

SUWEET

Thanks
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: jorgenslee on Wed, 17 August 2016, 21:43:05
jorgenslee I recommend the classic original style case.  The powdercoating is very solid feeling, at least on the prototype cases.  I think the powdercoating can hold up for several decades like the originals, but only time will tell I guess.

Thanks, until when is the deadline for orders that is expected to be shipped on October/November?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 17 August 2016, 22:03:20
I recommend placing the order this month, but I am producing some extra units so there will be no firm deadline - it will be "while supplies last" for the early bird round!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 20 August 2016, 11:11:36
We just passed $130,000 in orders this week!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 23 August 2016, 20:59:22
Here are the very first of the factory-made compact xwhatsit PCBs!  Production of the compact xwhatsit controllers has finished but the capacitive PCBs are not yet ready.  This photo shows two assembled with components and one test PCB with just solder paste.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 24 August 2016, 05:30:55
Here are the very first of the factory-made compact xwhatsit PCBs!  Production of the compact xwhatsit controllers has finished but the capacitive PCBs are not yet ready.  This photo shows two assembled with components and one test PCB with just solder paste.

Definitely smaller than the originals  ;D .

Looking great, all the pieces are coming together like some luscious meccano set.  Thanks Ellipse for always providing the pics in it's progress  :thumb: .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Glod on Fri, 26 August 2016, 15:26:01
man, i have pretty much quit this keyboard hobby, but of the 2 outstanding group buys (GH60 and F77) i am looking forward to my F77 more than most group buys i have been a part of over my 4+ year history at geekhack.

i want mine nowwwwwwww
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Sat, 27 August 2016, 03:13:16
man, i have pretty much quit this keyboard hobby, but of the 2 outstanding group buys (GH60 and F77) i am looking forward to my F77 more than most group buys i have been a part of over my 4+ year history at geekhack.

i want mine nowwwwwwww
Same! It's looking good ellipse!!! keep up the good work.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 27 August 2016, 20:03:33
Thanks! 

I was looking at the expansion header of those compact xwhatsit controllers and was wondering - are there any non-IBM solenoids that you can buy today that can be directly driven by the xwhatsit controller and not needing the solenoid driver board?  Maybe one that meets the power requirements, maybe a smaller one?  Has anyone done this?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 30 August 2016, 18:35:12
bump!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 31 August 2016, 20:43:04
We are 7 keyboards away from an even 300 keyboards ordered!

$135,000 in orders so far!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 01 September 2016, 03:34:07
We are 7 keyboards away from an even 300 keyboards ordered!

$135,000 in orders so far!

YIKES, 300 keyboards meaning when do you think you'll finish inspecting and checking all 300 before shipping?

Hate to see you bogged down for an entire year or two, going through all these keyboards and end up like GON, completely covered in orders that can never be completed in anyone's lifetime  :o .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 01 September 2016, 06:11:21
I will be shipping each keyboard after testing it.  I am not testing all 300 before shipping anything.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: MaNiFeX on Thu, 01 September 2016, 10:48:12
I will be shipping each keyboard after testing it.  I am not testing all 300 before shipping anything.

Will be most efficient.  Great looking boards, BTW.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Thu, 01 September 2016, 18:34:52
From the other thread:

We are now looking at these leaving China in November in my estimate :(.  I will not ship out anything that is below my standards for this project.

I'm fairly lost on the state of this buy. Ellipse, can you summarize what remains to be done in terms of manufacturing, assembly, and shipping? And what all the different pieces are (housing, guts, xwhatsit controller, one-piece keycaps, etc)? What is locked in and what can still be ordered. etc.

I would love it if you could post that summary here and in the other thread, and in both OPs. And can we please consider closing the other thread and conducting all business here?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 01 September 2016, 20:10:38
Sure here's the update:  9/1/16 update - we are in production:  As a general update the barrels, flippers, capacitive PCBs, xwhatsit controller PCBs, case molds, and ribbon cables finished production and I need to get the die cast zinc cases themselves, the ultra compact cases, the key molds and keys themselves, and the inner assembly plates made. 

Unfortunately the die cast zinc case molds and cases have been a bottleneck these past couple months and that continues to put us behind my original schedule.  We are now looking at these leaving China in November in my estimate.

I updated the OP's with this update.

As mentioned before the two threads for the most part have different content, unless the update is extra important.  By mistake I posted the GB update in the IC thread (corrected now).

The IC thread focuses on ongoing new developments of the project that have not been finalized, such as gauging interest in various configurations of the ultra compact cases and general F62/F77 keyboard questions (xwhatsit controller, powdercoating, die cast zinc molds, etc.).  I am still getting feedback on colors and finish options.  I am looking to expand the color offerings based on anyone's suggestions (if there's extra interest, the one-time color cost can be divided among more people).

The GB thread will continue to focus on production updates and questions related to placing and modifying orders, including order options, logistics, and customizations like the limited edition True Red case color that was recently approved for production.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Fri, 02 September 2016, 12:31:47
Sure here's the update:  9/1/16 update - we are in production:  As a general update the barrels, flippers, capacitive PCBs, xwhatsit controller PCBs, case molds, and ribbon cables finished production and I need to get the die cast zinc cases themselves, the ultra compact cases, the key molds and keys themselves, and the inner assembly plates made. 

Do you have any of the finished components on hand yet, or are they still waiting to be shipped?

Quote
As mentioned before the two threads for the most part have different content, unless the update is extra important.  By mistake I posted the GB update in the IC thread (corrected now).

This is exactly what makes this buy so confusing. There are tons of options that were made available after the initial order period, but are described across two large threads. The status of the buy and all the options are not listed anywhere. You yourself ****ed up which thread you were supposed to post in. It's a mess.

Quote
The GB thread will continue to focus on production updates and questions related to placing and modifying orders, including order options, logistics, and customizations like the limited edition True Red case color that was recently approved for production.

Can we please get a clear listing in the OP that says the status of each piece of this project. Also what can and can't still be ordered. For example:

Quote
SUMMARY OF EVERYTHING THIS BUY INCLUDES
* Basic keyboard models
* One-piece keycaps
* Compact case
* Extra innards
* other things?

NOT YET STARTED PRODUCTION
* Ultra compact cases
* Key molds
* Inner assembly plates

Current plan is for these to enter production on DATE and be finished around DATE.

IN PRODUCTION
* Regular size cases

Current plan is for these to be finished and shipped to me by DATE.

FINISHED PRODUCTION
* barrels, flippers, etc
* PCBs
* controlers

SHIPPED TO ME
* Nothing?

ORDERS LOCKED
* Anything?

STILL CAN BE ORDERED
* Single-piece keycaps
* Flippers
* Other innards
* etc.

Orders for these will close on DATE
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Fri, 02 September 2016, 21:25:21
Can we just lock the IC already, with the last post in it pointing to the GB? It's totally ridiculous.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 05 September 2016, 14:35:45
ok, the OP has been updated hashbaz!  Nothing has been shipped to me besides the samples/prototypes for approval.  Everything will ship out after production/assembly finishes.  Here is the OP update below as well:

SUMMARY OF EVERYTHING THIS BUY INCLUDES
* Basic keyboard models:  F62, F77, Ultra Compact F62, Ultra Compact F77
* One-piece XT-style keycaps made from new molds, including Industrial SSK style blue keys - extra sets are also available separately
* Extra parts also available separately including Model F (AT) compatible barrels, flippers, cases, PCBs, inner foam, and inner assemblies
* Available layouts:  ANSI:  US and HHKB style with split backspace and regular non-split backspace.  ISO:  Vertical enter with a variety of international layout variants:  Spanish, German, Nordic, French, UK, etc.

NOT YET STARTED PRODUCTION
* Ultra compact cases
* Key molds / keys / buckling springs
* Inner assembly plates
* Die cast zinc cases
* Boxes / inner foam / outside foam packaging

Current plan is for these to enter production by mid-September and be finished by end of November.

IN PRODUCTION
* Waiting for my approval on the die cast cases, then they will start production.  Colors and powdercoating texture were rejected by me as being below my standards.  Factory will be re-sending samples in the next week or so hopefully.

FINISHED PRODUCTION
* barrels
* flippers
* capacitive PCBs
* compact xwhatsit controllers
* case molds
* ribbon cables (to connect controllers to capacitive PCBs)

SHIPPED TO ME
* Current plan is for everything to be finished and shipped to me by the end of November.

ORDERS LOCKED
* Cases and other parts have been ordered, so please no major changes!

STILL CAN BE ORDERED
* Everything.  I have ordered extra keyboards and parts for the early bird round, which will be ongoing while supplies last.  Then there will be a final round for about a month after the early bird keyboards are delivered.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Jedi on Mon, 05 September 2016, 15:28:07
Thank you Ellipse for always keeping the GB thread informed with pictures and progress updates.  I can only imaging with over 300 keyboards on order where and how all this will be sorted.  Not really sure where all the concerns are coming from.  There are 10 pages with nearly a OP update to every three comments.  The updates summarized above are the same updates that can be found in the thread.  Also, OP is only running one group buy (this one) so if this was so ****ed up, I for one am confused.

I feel confident that you will check as much of the received order as humanly possible and that all boards when shipped will be packed well and sent to all 300 doors when this is ready.  I am anxiously awaiting but I also understand that a undertaking such as this was nothing short of a once in a lifetime shot. 

If this was another cherry mx clone board, I'd have been a bit upset.  I mean, please advise where another buckling spring keyboard group buy was run here on Geekhack?  Or would we prefer this have been run on Massdrop???

Keep up the good work with well informed updates as have been provided.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 05 September 2016, 23:00:25
Thanks for responding Ellipse. If you could keep the OP updated as things change, that would be lovely. :thumb:

Not really sure where all the concerns are coming from.

I'm not concerned about the buy finishing, I just wanted a summary of the current status of everything. Ellipse has posted regular updates, which is great, but they are scattered across two threads and it's impossible to get a full picture of where we're at without reading both. I'm just asking for typical, simple group buy organization stuff.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: romevi on Tue, 06 September 2016, 08:27:37
Thanks for responding Ellipse. If you could keep the OP updated as things change, that would be lovely. :thumb:

Not really sure where all the concerns are coming from.

I'm not concerned about the buy finishing, I just wanted a summary of the current status of everything. Ellipse has posted regular updates, which is great, but they are scattered across two threads and it's impossible to get a full picture of where we're at without reading both. I'm just asking for typical, simple group buy organization stuff.

Yeah, I stopped following the progress because I couldn't tell which to follow and wanted to know the latest without preening through pages of two separate threads.
I still don't know why the IC thread is open if the GB has gone underway; seems redundant.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 12 September 2016, 19:18:52
Dye sublimation update and request for help:

I am beginning to review the dye sublimation samples (just photos for now, physical samples to follow in the coming weeks). 

It is my understanding that a lot of the dye sublimation today on key caps may be done with some kind of 3D vacuum heat press with sublimation paper or sublimation film printed with inkjet printers and sublimation ink modded for these printers, as opposed to using a metal jig/holder firmly pressing the paper to the keys on an old style heat press.  This may be why the legends are blurrier and less black on today's keys (also could be lower quality sublimation ink/paper/film or not letting the ink sublimate long enough).  I am going to try for laser or offset printed legends on the sublimation paper/film if possible - could be what IBM did for their legends. 

I want to get the dye sublimation right - if anyone has any advice or experience in this area please let me know. 

Other than that, the factory is still reformulating the powdercoating paint to match the texture and colors more closely to the original IBM metal keyboards.  The powdercoating texture of the samples was very professional and looked nice, but the match could be improved.

Below is the factory's first attempt for the legend quality - the placement is of course not correct.  The left legend is IBM or Lexmark-printed and the right is their attempt.  So far the legend quality to me looks much better than IBM/Lexmark's 1990s output, but possibly not up to the XT standards (when I see the sample caps in person in the coming weeks I will be able to better evaluate the dye sublimation quality).
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 19 September 2016, 21:31:44
The factory told me that they have finished the die casting for the zinc cases!  Now they need to do the final CNC machining operations on those die cast cases, and then do the powdercoating.  I still need to receive the powdercoating samples.  I rejected the last powdercoating prototypes and they are starting from scratch - reformulating everything to get it right - color and texture.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ir0n on Mon, 19 September 2016, 22:54:08
The factory told me that they have finished the die casting for the zinc cases!  Now they need to do the final CNC machining operations on those die cast cases, and then do the powdercoating.  I still need to receive the powdercoating samples.  I rejected the last powdercoating prototypes and they are starting from scratch - reformulating everything to get it right - color and texture.

Did you have to redo all the colors?
And are we going to see these shipped with in the next 2 months?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 19 September 2016, 23:05:12
Ir0n yes the factory had to redo the paints - some colors were off and the texture was off for all colors (they need to reformulate the paint from scratch to fix the texture).  Because of the factory delays we are looking at these shipping from China in December.  It took months longer than expected for these case molds and powdercoating work.  I don't expect us to be done before the holidays at this point.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: MaNiFeX on Tue, 20 September 2016, 12:01:43
don't expect us to be done before the holidays at this point.

Considering all the engineering that went into this, the 'from scratch' production of each part, and the accuracy of reproducing the feel of the original, this will all be worth the wait.  Great job Ellipse!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: axtran on Wed, 21 September 2016, 22:17:19
Cool to see the progress, this is a huge, large-scale tooling effort combined with production. :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 24 September 2016, 00:28:49
Look at these nice powdercoated texture samples!  The factory has finally done a good job with the samples.  The industrial gray and silver gray textures could be improved a little.  Of course I will get the actual samples soon for final approval.

They photographed each sample on top of an original IBM F 107 powdercoated case from August 1988 for comparison (I had sent them the case for them to match).

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: axtran on Sat, 24 September 2016, 00:50:49
Nice!


Sent from my iPhone
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 26 September 2016, 22:00:44
The samples shipped by DHL Express!  I expect for them to arrive by early next week.  A major improvement over the more glossy earlier samples.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Tue, 27 September 2016, 02:02:54
Lord have mercy those colors!!!

Godspeed Ellipse!!!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 27 September 2016, 21:01:54
The factory now expects to start the key mold production and the production of the remaining parts the week of 10/10, after their holiday next week. 

Some interesting data points about US manufacturing:  I also looked into the possibility of US manufacturing, at least for the compact cases.  A quote from a well known US-based firm was more than five times the cost of the project's current supplier in China.  A PCB manufacturing quotation I got for the xwhatsit controllers a couple years ago was about ten times as costly if I recall correctly.  And given the great quality control and tolerances that the Chinese supplier has adhered to so far, it's tough to imagine the parts could be improved any further for this project.

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 28 September 2016, 02:31:47
A quote from a well known US-based firm was more than five times the cost of the project's current supplier in China.  A PCB manufacturing quotation I got for the xwhatsit controllers a couple years ago was about ten times as costly if I recall correctly.  And given the great quality control and tolerances that the Chinese supplier has adhered to so far, it's tough to imagine the parts could be improved any further for this project.

It's the same with nearly every manufactured part for any product.  Far cheaper to get it done in China, rather than doing it at home.

Shame that we can no longer compete in anything except when it comes to debt and corrupt regimes  :thumb: .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 28 September 2016, 16:21:04
Really regretting not getting that amazing red.
Look at these nice powdercoated texture samples!  The factory has finally done a good job with the samples.  The industrial gray and silver gray textures could be improved a little.  Of course I will get the actual samples soon for final approval.

They photographed each sample on top of an original IBM F 107 powdercoated case from August 1988 for comparison (I had sent them the case for them to match).

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Looks phenomenal! Really regretting not ordering the red powdercoating.  :'(
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 28 September 2016, 21:24:20
hashbaz I ordered extra red cases - if anyone wants to upgrade to the true red case it is still possible for the early round.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 28 September 2016, 22:24:55
hashbaz I ordered extra red cases - if anyone wants to upgrade to the true red case it is still possible for the early round.

What would the cost be for an extra red case? I ordered an F77.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 28 September 2016, 22:36:18
red case upgrades are $75 extra.  Anyone interested can place an order for 75 units of the following store item and then choose free local pickup if they would like to upgrade.  http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/other-customizations-in-1-increments/

The other custom color available is silver gray.  There is no charge for black, off-white/beige, and industrial gray.

Since the factory charges extra tooling costs by the color to clean and set up the powdercoating machines, I do not expect more red cases to be made during the final round.  You can order any remaining red cases during the final round, as I ordered extras for the early bird round.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 29 September 2016, 18:47:33
I received the powdercoating samples today and they live up to IBM's quality and color. I have just approved all of these colors with the factory so they will start the powdercoating soon! Next week is a major holiday in China so they might start Monday 10/10.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Thu, 29 September 2016, 22:23:43
red case upgrades are $75 extra.  Anyone interested can place an order for 75 units of the following store item and then choose free local pickup if they would like to upgrade.  http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/other-customizations-in-1-increments/

Just want to make sure I'm understanding -- the $75 is just for the powdercoating, right? So if I wanted a second red case, it would be $100 for the case and and $75 for the color?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 29 September 2016, 22:34:44
Hashbaz - each true red case is effectively $175, whether you choose a quantity of 1 or 2. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Fri, 30 September 2016, 01:57:11
Got it. I meant an extra red case in addition to the one that comes with the assembled keyboard I ordered. :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 30 September 2016, 06:10:22
ok, so then you would order a spare case and add 75 units of the store item mentioned earlier.  I will cover the extra shipping charges so you can choose free local pickup.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: axtran on Sun, 02 October 2016, 03:34:14
What's the price of a smaller case add-on? (Or swap)


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Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 02 October 2016, 12:02:33
$100

You can order them here.  The bottom inner assembly plate is included (everything else is interchangeable):
http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/extra-f62-case-kishsaver/
http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/extra-f77-case/
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: axtran on Mon, 03 October 2016, 01:39:52
Cool. Is there an option to just swap the original case for a lower profile one? :) If so, I think I'd like that.


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Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 03 October 2016, 16:51:41
Sorry, the only case options are the original case and ultra compact case.  There is no low profile case.  They are both about the same height.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 04 October 2016, 20:29:54
We reached 300 keyboards!  Here is a breakdown of the number of F62 and F77 keyboards ordered by location:

United States of America   198
CA   57
TX   12
MI   12
NY   8
WA   8
CO   6
NV   5
NC   5
IL   5
KY   5
VA   5
AZ   4
OH   4
GA   4
HI   4
KS   4
NJ   4
MD   4
MA   3
FL   3
UT   3
CT   3
PA   3
MN   3
MO   3
IN   2
TN   2
WI   2
OR   2
DE   1
SD   1
MS   1
ID   1
DC   1
GU   1
LA   1
NH   1
IA   1
NE   1
WV   1
AR   1
SC   1

United Kingdom   16
Hampshire   3
South Yorkshire   2
Surrey   2
Lancashire   1
EN   1
North Yorkshire   1
Cambridgeshire   1
berkshire   1
Warwickshire   1
(blank)   1
Aberdeenshire   1
Isle of Man   1

Australia   15
QLD   5
WA   4
VIC   3
NSW   2
ACT   1

Germany   9
Sweden   8
Netherlands   6

Canada   6
AB   3
ON   1
QC   1
BC   1

Korea, Republic of   5
Finland   4
Japan   4
Spain   3
France   3
Hong Kong   3
Italy   2
Ireland   2
Switzerland   2
Belgium   2
Malaysia   2
Poland   2
Viet Nam   1
Austria   1
New Zealand   1
South Africa   1
Indonesia   1
Croatia   1
Singapore   1
Denmark   1

Grand Total   300
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: romevi on Tue, 04 October 2016, 20:41:11
What's up with Cali? Almost all the stuff I sell goes there. And that's including stuff from different hobbies.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Tue, 04 October 2016, 21:32:46
Here is a breakdown of the number of F62 and F77 keyboards ordered by location:

Australia   15
QLD   5
WA   4
VIC   3
NSW   2
ACT   1


Just pissed off that the morons in NSW and Victoria haven't jumped on this further  >:D .  Plus they have the bulk of the population here in this Penal Settlement, hence what gives?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: fanpeople on Tue, 04 October 2016, 22:05:43
Here is a breakdown of the number of F62 and F77 keyboards ordered by location:

Australia   15
QLD   5
WA   4
VIC   3
NSW   2
ACT   1


Just pissed off that the morons in NSW and Victoria haven't jumped on this further  >:D .  Plus they have the bulk of the population here in this Penal Settlement, hence what gives?

Quality over quantity, hense qld suppremacy.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Quackles on Wed, 05 October 2016, 00:02:13
I've done my part for NSW, I wonder who the other person is!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: fanpeople on Wed, 05 October 2016, 02:35:14
I've done my part for NSW, I wonder who the other person is!

**** i actually hope thats not me i cant remember when i paid and if it was before i moved
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: kekstee on Wed, 05 October 2016, 06:09:52
Rest of the world must be scared of shipping and customs. I could buy a decent keyboard on that budget.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Fictiouz on Wed, 05 October 2016, 06:24:14
I need to order one so bad. Maybe at the end of my co-op if I have some extra cash lying around :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 05 October 2016, 06:40:24
Rest of the world must be scared of shipping and customs. I could buy a decent keyboard on that budget.

But you'll never find another Ellipse Model-F keyboard again.  Unless some smart dude posts it on Fleabay in the future for $1000USD  8) .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Fictiouz on Wed, 05 October 2016, 06:46:50
What's up with Cali? Almost all the stuff I sell goes there. And that's including stuff from different hobbies.

I have the same thing happen. It's weird as hell.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Wed, 05 October 2016, 08:17:57
Canada   6
AB   3
ON   1
QC   1
BC   1

Woot! I'll have the only one in Quebec  :cool:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: cjhard on Wed, 05 October 2016, 08:29:05
KY   5

I'm not the only one! I wonder if any of the other 4 also work in the same building where the original was built? =)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: U47 on Wed, 05 October 2016, 10:57:39
Canada   6
AB   3
ON   1
QC   1
BC   1

Woot! I'll have the only one in Quebec  :cool:
I've got two of the AB ones... WHO'S THE RIVAL WITH THE OTHER?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: axtran on Thu, 06 October 2016, 06:57:08
Sorry, the only case options are the original case and ultra compact case.  There is no low profile case.  They are both about the same height.

I meant the ultra compact case. Should I email you/PM you about switching from the original case or can you just make the adjustment? :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Phinnegan on Thu, 06 October 2016, 10:23:12
What's up with Cali? Almost all the stuff I sell goes there. And that's including stuff from different hobbies.

I was surprised at first, but the combo of highest population and lots of disposable income probably does the trick.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: jeffbolton on Thu, 06 October 2016, 20:05:10
What's up with Cali? Almost all the stuff I sell goes there. And that's including stuff from different hobbies.

California's economy is one of the biggest in the world somewhere in the top 5 typically.  About the size of France.  That with a diverse population, a lot of stuff goes to CA.  What is interesting is that when CA regulates something it usually changes the whole country.  For example car emissions.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 08 October 2016, 21:57:42
From those I've spoken with, two of the most frequent job types of the F62/F77 buyers are programmers and writers (both books and online).
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Meowsaur on Tue, 11 October 2016, 14:17:25
United Kingdom   16
(blank)   1

Which county got nuked off the face of the UK since ordering?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Wed, 12 October 2016, 04:58:46
Oh yeah, only one on the African continent :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Wed, 12 October 2016, 10:31:47
Lonely in Arkansas xD
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 13 October 2016, 17:24:04
The zinc cases have been die cast!  Here are photos of some of the cases as they appeared right out of the molds.

They are still rough around the edges at this point.  After they are die cast, they need to do some machining, polishing, and then powdercoating (they are currently doing these secondary operations to the cases).

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 17 October 2016, 22:43:22
Production update - the factory has confirmed production of the remaining parts will start this week!  If all goes well this should be a two month process starting this week.

They are creating the molds and setting up the tooling on their machines, then they create the samples for my approval, then they produce and assemble the remaining parts for the production run. 

Here is the very first prototype ultra compact F62 case as it appeared out of the CNC machine - just the raw aluminum - not cleaned up just yet!

Please note that they are not finished!  The scratches and marks must be removed with secondary CNC machining operations and then the hard anodized coat will be applied either in black or standard gray.

You are looking at the back end perspective in some of the photos - that hole corresponds to the hole for the USB in the back.  The USB cable can be removed from the back without opening up the keyboard.

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 20 October 2016, 18:04:48
We are now past $145,000 in orders!  Any feedback on the rough CNC milled ultra compact case prototypes?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Pikly on Thu, 20 October 2016, 18:16:59
I didn't get an ultra compact case, but they look very nice! Should look even better when they're coated.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 20 October 2016, 18:29:57
Any feedback on the rough CNC milled ultra compact case prototypes?

It looks good, nice and THICK just the way I love my women  8) .

As long as it can crush any cranium with a single swing, it's perfect in every way.  This casing has to be built for survival instinct, for the future when everything goes pear-shaped.

So far it's looking good Ellipse.  Can't wait to see the colours applied and presented.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: KetchyKech on Sat, 22 October 2016, 12:19:45
Any feedback on the rough CNC milled ultra compact case prototypes?

It looks good, nice and THICK just the way I love my women  8) .

As long as it can crush any cranium with a single swing, it's perfect in every way.  This casing has to be built for survival instinct, for the future when everything goes pear-shaped.

So far it's looking good Ellipse.  Can't wait to see the colours applied and presented.

LOL, nice~~~  ;)


Looks smooth ~~~ I think I need to be in for an ultra compact, whens the latest I can order an ultra compact case, ellipse?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 22 October 2016, 13:26:08
You still have a couple months but please order soon if you want to add it to an existing order.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ccc24 on Sat, 22 October 2016, 20:47:42
What extra parts do you recommend ordering?  Extra flippers, barrels, and springs anything else? I'm kind of ocd with parts and want to make sure my keybaord will last for decades.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Sat, 22 October 2016, 20:55:43
What extra parts do you recommend ordering?  Extra flippers, barrels, and springs anything else? I'm kind of ocd with parts and want to make sure my keybaord will last for decades.

The foam mat.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ccc24 on Sat, 22 October 2016, 22:18:44
What extra parts do you recommend ordering?  Extra flippers, barrels, and springs anything else? I'm kind of ocd with parts and want to make sure my keybaord will last for decades.

The foam mat.

ya saw that. What is that foam actually for? What about pcb and controllers are those for sale individually as well?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 22 October 2016, 22:46:26
The extra foam mat, barrels, and flippers/springs are the most important extra parts that everyone should order.  The foam holds the barrels and keys in place.  Over time, older Model F keyboard barrels become "wobbly" as the foam disintegrates.  The foam is designed to keep even pressure between the barrels and the top inner assembly plate (and also to help keep dust out of the inner assembly and away from the capacitive PCB).

To make it easier I am waiving extra shipping charges if anyone wants to place another order just for extra parts.  I will combine orders if you order anything in the next month or two - you can just choose "free local pickup" for the next order.  However if you order an extra keyboard you'd still need to cover shipping.

Yes you can order an extra PCB which includes the controller PCB and the capacitive PCB.  For this option just order 40 units of this product and specify which PCB you are looking for (F62/F77, normal/split shift/scumnc layout).  http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/other-customizations-in-1-increments/
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ccc24 on Sat, 22 October 2016, 23:33:04
The extra foam mat, barrels, and flippers/springs are the most important extra parts that everyone should order.  The foam holds the barrels and keys in place.  Over time, older Model F keyboard barrels become "wobbly" as the foam disintegrates.  The foam is designed to keep even pressure between the barrels and the top inner assembly plate (and also to help keep dust out of the inner assembly and away from the capacitive PCB).

To make it easier I am waiving extra shipping charges if anyone wants to place another order just for extra parts.  I will combine orders if you order anything in the next month or two - you can just choose "free local pickup" for the next order.  However if you order an extra keyboard you'd still need to cover shipping.

Yes you can order an extra PCB which includes the controller PCB and the capacitive PCB.  For this option just order 40 units of this product and specify which PCB you are looking for (F62/F77, normal/split shift/scumnc layout).  http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/other-customizations-in-1-increments/

ok thanks ya I might order a bunch of extra parts for the F77 i ordered. How would I combine the order for the extra parts for the f77 I ordered a while ago?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 22 October 2016, 23:42:14
You can make a separate order and I will combine the orders when everything is ready to ship.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ccc24 on Sun, 23 October 2016, 00:18:02
You can make a separate order and I will combine the orders when everything is ready to ship.

ok will do thanks. I should use the same email and information as my original order then I assume.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Sun, 23 October 2016, 00:19:03
The extra foam mat, barrels, and flippers/springs are the most important extra parts that everyone should order.  The foam holds the barrels and keys in place.  Over time, older Model F keyboard barrels become "wobbly" as the foam disintegrates.  The foam is designed to keep even pressure between the barrels and the top inner assembly plate (and also to help keep dust out of the inner assembly and away from the capacitive PCB).

Ellipse please explain this theory I have inside my head.

If all the foam was made at the same time period and twenty years into the future the foam inside your immaculate F77 keyboard starts to disintegrate, what happens with the spare foam that was bought?

Wouldn't they also start to disintegrate due to being made at the same time and I know for a fact all FOAM deteriorates over time no matter, even if they are vacuum sealed and stored away from the sun, they will still fall apart when taken out of their enclosure.

Have bought and dealt with numerous foams over the years and the only one that lasts is insulation foam that comes out of cans which have a high glass particle content.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: axtran on Sun, 23 October 2016, 09:09:29
The extra foam mat, barrels, and flippers/springs are the most important extra parts that everyone should order.  The foam holds the barrels and keys in place.  Over time, older Model F keyboard barrels become "wobbly" as the foam disintegrates.  The foam is designed to keep even pressure between the barrels and the top inner assembly plate (and also to help keep dust out of the inner assembly and away from the capacitive PCB).

Ellipse please explain this theory I have inside my head.

If all the foam was made at the same time period and twenty years into the future the foam inside your immaculate F77 keyboard starts to disintegrate, what happens with the spare foam that was bought?

Wouldn't they also start to disintegrate due to being made at the same time and I know for a fact all FOAM deteriorates over time no matter, even if they are vacuum sealed and stored away from the sun, they will still fall apart when taken out of their enclosure.

Have bought and dealt with numerous foams over the years and the only one that lasts is insulation foam that comes out of cans which have a high glass particle content.

I think the oceans can help us prove that foams won't deteriorate that easily. /s LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ccc24 on Sun, 23 October 2016, 11:48:41
The extra foam mat, barrels, and flippers/springs are the most important extra parts that everyone should order.  The foam holds the barrels and keys in place.  Over time, older Model F keyboard barrels become "wobbly" as the foam disintegrates.  The foam is designed to keep even pressure between the barrels and the top inner assembly plate (and also to help keep dust out of the inner assembly and away from the capacitive PCB).

Ellipse please explain this theory I have inside my head.

If all the foam was made at the same time period and twenty years into the future the foam inside your immaculate F77 keyboard starts to disintegrate, what happens with the spare foam that was bought?

Wouldn't they also start to disintegrate due to being made at the same time and I know for a fact all FOAM deteriorates over time no matter, even if they are vacuum sealed and stored away from the sun, they will still fall apart when taken out of their enclosure.

Have bought and dealt with numerous foams over the years and the only one that lasts is insulation foam that comes out of cans which have a high glass particle content.

ya that's a good point. Maybe store it in a ziplock bag in the closet or something. Like to get Ellipse input on this as well.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: cjhard on Sun, 23 October 2016, 11:58:30
If it becomes the case that 20 years from now all our foam has disintegrated and our backup foam has also been eaten by time, I would imagine we'd just have to cut new foam out of whatever the newest miracle foam is at the time. Maybe one day Ellipse will backup all the project source files on the Github of the future, just in case.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 23 October 2016, 12:34:49
Elrick there are two types of Model F foam.  One type has almost always disintegrated and is no longer springy where they have been held compressed for so many decades (around the barrels); this is the type found on most F122s and some F77/XT/AT's in my collection.  The other type has held up pretty well but may no longer be as "springy" around the parts that were compressed the most (the barrels).  This could make the barrels wobbly when typing.  I have looked up different foam manufacturer specifications and have seen that some types of foam can survive years if unused/uncompressed.  That is why I suggest keeping an unused foam for later.  And yes ccc it might be a good idea to keep the extra foam in a cold place, in a sealed bag.  No one knows for sure how long the McMaster Carr foam used in this project will last.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Sun, 23 October 2016, 21:17:53
I have looked up different foam manufacturer specifications and have seen that some types of foam can survive years if unused/uncompressed.  That is why I suggest keeping an unused foam for later.  And yes ccc it might be a good idea to keep the extra foam in a cold place, in a sealed bag.  No one knows for sure how long the McMaster Carr foam used in this project will last.

I'll still buy another two pieces of foam as spares BUT I thought of using their shape to trace out and cut a spare "sorbothane" like sheet to use inside my F77.

I've used sorbothane feet under heavy Sub-woofers around the home and they were placed under their 20kgs of weight for more than five years and the feet still retain their original shapes when extracted.  Can't believe that a man-made product can endure so long and provide complete isolation of audio equipment tremors from the concrete floors.

Shall be using a sheet soon to see how it performs, because it's a very tough material that refuses to be squashed into oblivion by any weight but still retains very soft actuation when forced.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 26 October 2016, 17:40:08
That material is expensive Elrick! 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 26 October 2016, 17:58:35
That material is expensive Elrick!

I know BUT it's the ONLY man-made product that never deforms over time.  Even when it's covered in dirt, oil, petrol, diesel or grease the Sorbothane survives intact which still surprises me, out where I work.

Hence spending the money on one sorbothane pad will probably outlast the switches inside your Model-F keyboard.  For myself, it comes down to how long this keyboard will last and I seriously want this F77 to out live me.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 27 October 2016, 17:50:48
The die cast zinc cases have finished their secondary CNC/finishing operations and are ready to be powdercoated!

And we are 2 or 3 orders away from $150,000!  Orders continue to be accepted for the early bird round!

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: romevi on Thu, 27 October 2016, 17:56:04
Have any gone out? Waiting for final samples and reviews before placing an order.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 27 October 2016, 18:08:33
romevi not yet - the parts are not yet all made.  From the OP update:

IN PRODUCTION
* Ultra compact cases
* Key molds / keys / buckling springs
* Inner assembly plates
* Boxes / inner foam / outside foam packaging
* Powdercoating for the original style cases

FINISHED PRODUCTION
* barrels
* flippers
* Die cast zinc cases (they have not yet been powdercoated)
* capacitive PCBs
* compact xwhatsit controllers
* case molds
* ribbon cables (to connect controllers to capacitive PCBs)

SHIPPED TO ME
* Current plan is for everything to be finished and shipped to me in December or January.

ORDERS LOCKED
* Cases and other parts have been ordered, so please no major changes!

STILL CAN BE ORDERED
* Everything.  I have ordered extra keyboards and parts for the early bird round, which will be ongoing while supplies last.  Then there will be a final round for about a month after the early bird keyboards are delivered.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: romevi on Thu, 27 October 2016, 18:18:21
Oh, the OP is updated! Okay, cool. I will rely on that from now on. Thanks!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 30 October 2016, 14:37:35
Here are a few factory built and assembled units from the production run of the compact xwhatsit PCBs.

These compact PCBs will be included in all F62 and F77 keyboards, not just the compact versions.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: axtran on Mon, 31 October 2016, 06:41:32
What's the controller on these?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 31 October 2016, 17:49:38
it is the xwhatsit Model F USB controller - more info here:  http://downloads.cornall.co/ibm-capsense-usb/ and here:  http://downloads.cornall.co/ibm-capsense-usb-web/ibm-capsense-usb.html
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: axtran on Mon, 31 October 2016, 18:01:10
it is the xwhatsit Model F USB controller - more info here:  http://downloads.cornall.co/ibm-capsense-usb/ and here:  http://downloads.cornall.co/ibm-capsense-usb-web/ibm-capsense-usb.html

Got the controller model handy?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: kawasaki161 on Mon, 31 October 2016, 18:04:50
it is the xwhatsit Model F USB controller - more info here:  http://downloads.cornall.co/ibm-capsense-usb/ and here:  http://downloads.cornall.co/ibm-capsense-usb-web/ibm-capsense-usb.html

Got the controller model handy?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ATmega32U2
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: axtran on Mon, 31 October 2016, 18:37:57
Thanks!

Time to reverse engineer and port to TMK once I get mine in. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 31 October 2016, 22:16:29
Please do share on this thread if you are able to get TMK working on xwhatsit's controller. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 05 November 2016, 11:12:30
The factory is also working on alternate spring material samples to get to a sound that is even closer to the originals.  I will be getting these samples in the coming weeks for further evaluation.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: axtran on Sat, 05 November 2016, 15:53:34
Please do share on this thread if you are able to get TMK working on xwhatsit's controller.

Will do! Let me know if you have extra controllers so I can have an experimenting one. Might need to reflash boot loader, things like that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 10 November 2016, 18:48:13
Not sure if this was mentioned before but the factory is going ahead with the high quality double walled cardboard boxes with the printed project graphics. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Fri, 11 November 2016, 03:23:56
Not sure if this was mentioned before but the factory is going ahead with the high quality double walled cardboard boxes with the printed project graphics. 

Cannot wait to see my brand new model F in its box!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 11 November 2016, 15:06:06
The factory tells me they are still on schedule.  We may see completed ultra compact case keyboard prototypes by early December!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: RocketGruntJake on Fri, 11 November 2016, 15:24:35
Will the first ordered keyboards arrive before Christmas this year?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 11 November 2016, 15:29:13
Nope sorry, not likely.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 15 November 2016, 22:55:44
We've passed $155,000 in orders!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 16 November 2016, 02:34:16
We've passed $155,000 in orders!

And who said no body wants Model-Fs any more  ;D .

We are now living in a Keyboard Renaissance Movement where a lot more people are interested in historical keyboards.  You've got past technologies that the younger generation are eager to find out about and own a part of this.

Also it's the ONLY United States key switch designed for the public to use, so it's worth resurrecting this again to see the effect it will have on all those addicted to the standard which has become CherryMX based.  Get them to use something far better and worship something again from the past brought back to Life.

You should call this Keyboard a Phoenix Version.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Wed, 16 November 2016, 03:36:56
We've passed $155,000 in orders!

And who said no body wants Model-Fs any more  ;D .

We are now living in a Keyboard Renaissance Movement where a lot more people are interested in historical keyboards.  You've got past technologies that the younger generation are eager to find out about and own a part of this.

Also it's the ONLY United States key switch designed for the public to use, so it's worth resurrecting this again to see the effect it will have on all those addicted to the standard which has become CherryMX based.  Get them to use something far better and worship something again from the past brought back to Life.

You should call this Keyboard a Phoenix Version.

Haha I really like that, Model F Phoenix :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 20 November 2016, 12:25:59
I posted over 100 F62/F77 project photos here, if anyone is interested in seeing all the production photos in one place:  https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/59umff/photos_hundreds_of_brand_new_model_f_keyboard_f62/?st=ivqz41do&sh=3c48cfcd
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 22 November 2016, 17:46:05
Project update:  production has finished on all the original style cases for the early bird round!  I made extras so you can still get in your early bird orders.

Also we are at $160,000 in orders!

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
[attachimg=6]
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[attachimg=8]
[attachimg=9]
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[attachimg=11]
[attachimg=12]
[attachimg=13]
[attachimg=14]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: fanpeople on Tue, 22 November 2016, 17:53:57
You Ellipse, are a good ****.

Those photos made me hard.

xoxo  :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Tue, 22 November 2016, 18:20:38
You Ellipse, are a good ****.

Those photos made me hard.

xoxo  :thumb:

Quite CORRECT  8) .

His pictures are now moistening my loins consistently.  Need to change my shorts every time I visit this section, shame on you Ellipse for doing this to me.........
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ir0n on Wed, 23 November 2016, 08:28:52
Every time I see those red cases...oh boy.. Lol
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: riotonthebay on Wed, 23 November 2016, 08:44:54
Haven't been around GH but love checking up on this thread. So glad I got in on the red.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Quackles on Thu, 24 November 2016, 03:32:15
Damn they look fantastic. Like everyone else, I enjoy seeing the red case as it is my favourite colour. Makes me reconsider my industrial grey! Although I do like the idea of having a more classic look in grey.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Thu, 24 November 2016, 03:42:41
Man those pics really are sexy, all the colours are looking so good. Seeing the industrial grey under low light I wish we had pitched a gun metal grey option or something like that too.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 24 November 2016, 23:44:14
Here is a breakdown of the 348 F62/F77 keyboards ordered so far, by general flipper placement/PCB type.

Overall we have 170 US ANSI, 150 HHKB style, 27 ISO, and 1 DVORAK.

166   ANSI Enter (default - horizontal Enter key)
81   HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and Split Backspace
65   HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and regular 2-unit wide backspace
24   ISO Enter (vertical enter and split Left Shift)
3   ANSI Enter (default - horizontal Enter key) and Split Backspace
1   HHKB split right shift only, everything else ANSI
1   ISO Enter (vertical enter and split Left Shift), HHKB with split backspace
1   HHKB split right shift only with regular 2-unit wide backspace, with ISO Enter (vertical enter and split Left Shift)
1   HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and regular 2-unit wide backspace, original position Ctrl and Caps lock keys
1   DVORAK layout; ANSI Enter (default - horizontal Enter key)
1   ISO Enter (vertical enter and split Left Shift)
1   HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and Split Backspace and short left shift
1   ANSI (U.S. default - horizontal Enter key) with split right shift, split backspace, and HHKB keys but not HHKB layout
1   ISO Enter (vertical enter and split Left Shift) and HHKB-Style Split Right Shift
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ipreferpie on Fri, 25 November 2016, 03:43:17
Here is a breakdown of the 348 F62/F77 keyboards ordered so far, by general flipper placement/PCB type.

Overall we have 170 US ANSI, 150 HHKB style, 27 ISO, and 1 DVORAK.

166ANSI Enter (default - horizontal Enter key)
81HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and Split Backspace
65HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and regular 2-unit wide backspace
24ISO Enter (vertical enter and split Left Shift)
3ANSI Enter (default - horizontal Enter key) and Split Backspace
1HHKB split right shift only, everything else ANSI
1ISO Enter (vertical enter and split Left Shift), HHKB with split backspace
1HHKB split right shift only with regular 2-unit wide backspace, with ISO Enter (vertical enter and split Left Shift)
1HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and regular 2-unit wide backspace, original position Ctrl and Caps lock keys
1DVORAK layout; ANSI Enter (default - horizontal Enter key)
1ISO Enter (vertical enter and split Left Shift)
1HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and Split Backspace and short left shift
1ANSI (U.S. default - horizontal Enter key) with split right shift, split backspace, and HHKB keys but not HHKB layout
1ISO Enter (vertical enter and split Left Shift) and HHKB-Style Split Right Shift

Did you forget to tally my 2 Colemak Builds? ;)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 25 November 2016, 11:36:31
(replied over email)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 26 November 2016, 14:13:54
Please note that HHKB split shift only (otherwise standard layout) is a custom request (no extra charge) so you will need to let me know if you'd like this option.  By default the HHKB layout is the full HHKB layout.

If anyone wants to make changes please let me know ASAP as the factory is still in production with parts for everyone's keyboards. 

This is what the HHKB with split backspace will look like:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/questions/question/are-there-any-photos-of-the-hhkb-layout/

Here are the other various layout options:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/questions/question/please-post-photos-of-the-various-keys-options/

The HHKB split shift only option keeps everything the same as the standard Model M layout, except the right shift key is split.  The other HHKB options all switch around the ctrl and caps lock keys.  In addition, the HHKB with split backspace option moves around the | \, Backspace, and `~ keys as shown in the first link in this post.

Here is a description of the specific differences with HHKB layout:  "For HHKB/split right shift with split backspace printed key sets, custom printed keys will be included: Delete key the size of | \, 1U size | \, stepped Ctrl/Ctrl-style Caps Lock, Caps-Lock style Shift, and 1U Fn.  For the HHKB set with the non-split backspace, you will not receive the 1U | \ key and the | \-sized backspace key."
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: schizoidpig on Sat, 26 November 2016, 17:17:25
So I ordered mine with blank keys before the XT reproduction caps were announced... is there a way to change my order to include the XT style dye-sub caps?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 27 November 2016, 21:24:25
Sure, you can order 5 units of this product and choose free local pickup to upgrade from unprinted to ANSI US printed:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/other-customizations-in-1-increments/

Please include a note of what you are looking for.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: schizoidpig on Mon, 28 November 2016, 03:25:06
Brilliant, thanks!

And by god, those cases are gorgeous. Can't wait to get my hands on mine!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: thel on Tue, 29 November 2016, 05:53:17
Hi Ellipse,
great project!

I am interested in one modern case F77, but I would like to see some pictures first and I would like clarification whether it will be a zink or aluminum case and what colors will be available.

Do you have any news regarding this? What is the target timeframe for the modern cases?
The early bird round is still going? -what does that mean for the modern case type?

Cheers
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 29 November 2016, 17:27:22
Yes here are prototype photos - the compact cases in these photos are not finished yet!  https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/59umff/photos_hundreds_of_brand_new_model_f_keyboard_f62/?st=iw44m1mb&sh=4435d339

The ultra compact modern cases are all aluminum.  The originals are zinc - zinc is much heavier but both are very strong and should hold up well.  For the F62/F77 keyboards (both original style and compact style cases) you're looking at several pounds of metal per keyboard:  zinc/aluminum for the case and inner plates made of steel.

Orders are now open for the ultra compact cases but they are lower priority than the originals.  I am prioritizing shipments by serial number, which are assigned generally in the sequence of when I receive everyone's orders.

The early bird round is almost closed, but I ordered extra keyboards for the early bird round so that if you order in the coming weeks you will likely have your order included in the early bird round. 

The factory is still working on the key molds and production first-runs for some remaining parts which I need to approve before everything goes into production.  I was expecting this to be finished around this point but that means we are now looking more like February or March for these keyboards to ship from China.  And if the first-run samples are not good, I would rather hold up production until they pass my quality standards even if it causes further delay in the project.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: riotonthebay on Tue, 29 November 2016, 17:32:49
Thank you for all of the pictures, updates, and overall transparency. It makes it much, much easier to accept delays when they're accompanied with explanation and documentation.

The delays are good too… it'll give me some time to enjoy some other boards coming in for a few months first ;)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 29 November 2016, 20:47:45
Yep - I did not expect delays to bottleneck the process for so long this year.

According to the factory's most recent project management report, they now expect to finish first-runs next week and they expect to finish the molds by mid-December.  Once the first-runs are in hand and fully inspected, I will post more photos and will hopefully be able to approve production to continue. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: thel on Wed, 30 November 2016, 02:16:08
Thanks for the clarification. I will wait until you have some pictures of the modern one, then I decide how to proceed.
Keep up the great work!

Yes here are prototype photos - the compact cases in these photos are not finished yet!  https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/59umff/photos_hundreds_of_brand_new_model_f_keyboard_f62/?st=iw44m1mb&sh=4435d339

The ultra compact modern cases are all aluminum.  The originals are zinc - zinc is much heavier but both are very strong and should hold up well.  For the F62/F77 keyboards (both original style and compact style cases) you're looking at several pounds of metal per keyboard:  zinc/aluminum for the case and inner plates made of steel.

Orders are now open for the ultra compact cases but they are lower priority than the originals.  I am prioritizing shipments by serial number, which are assigned generally in the sequence of when I receive everyone's orders.

The early bird round is almost closed, but I ordered extra keyboards for the early bird round so that if you order in the coming weeks you will likely have your order included in the early bird round. 

The factory is still working on the key molds and production first-runs for some remaining parts which I need to approve before everything goes into production.  I was expecting this to be finished around this point but that means we are now looking more like February or March for these keyboards to ship from China.  And if the first-run samples are not good, I would rather hold up production until they pass my quality standards even if it causes further delay in the project.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Wed, 30 November 2016, 03:20:38
Yes here are prototype photos - the compact cases in these photos are not finished yet!  https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/59umff/photos_hundreds_of_brand_new_model_f_keyboard_f62/?st=iw44m1mb&sh=4435d339

The ultra compact modern cases are all aluminum.  The originals are zinc - zinc is much heavier but both are very strong and should hold up well.  For the F62/F77 keyboards (both original style and compact style cases) you're looking at several pounds of metal per keyboard:  zinc/aluminum for the case and inner plates made of steel.

Orders are now open for the ultra compact cases but they are lower priority than the originals.  I am prioritizing shipments by serial number, which are assigned generally in the sequence of when I receive everyone's orders.

The early bird round is almost closed, but I ordered extra keyboards for the early bird round so that if you order in the coming weeks you will likely have your order included in the early bird round. 

The factory is still working on the key molds and production first-runs for some remaining parts which I need to approve before everything goes into production.  I was expecting this to be finished around this point but that means we are now looking more like February or March for these keyboards to ship from China.  And if the first-run samples are not good, I would rather hold up production until they pass my quality standards even if it causes further delay in the project.

Thanks for the update Ellipse and as Riot said it's much easier to accept delays when you have all the info. Such an exciting project!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 30 November 2016, 17:54:44
We passed $165,000 in orders!

Yep, now I see why many Kickstarter-type projects with intricate parts can take a year or longer for production!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Glod on Tue, 06 December 2016, 13:57:59
So your gonna send me the very first completed one and then go by the serial number for everyone else right? :D jk

thanks for the updates
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 09 December 2016, 16:52:50
A note on the production first-runs (they set up production and tooling to make one or more parts of each part design before making all the remaining parts) - they are important in the manufacturing process because some small changes were made to the prototype designs and I want to make sure that everything is 100% before going into production.  Skipping these prototypes would have saved a month or so but it would be a bad idea if a mistake was found after all the units were made.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 12 December 2016, 00:53:44
Photos from the production first-runs still unfinished and underway!

Caution - raw steel!

Please note that the parts are not yet finished/in hand for my inspection - they are not powdercoated and have not been anodized as they will be for the final production - they are still in their rough "test" condition!

Especially nice is the very first factory stamped Model F foam in over 20 years!  You'll notice their first one has a small mistake in the location of the opening for one of the top inner assembly tabs.

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
[attachimg=6]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: dante on Mon, 12 December 2016, 08:52:47
Will these keyboards need bolt modding down the road?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: riotonthebay on Mon, 12 December 2016, 08:55:29
Will these keyboards need bolt modding down the road?

No, I don't believe Model Fs (capacitive bucking spring) ever needed bolt modding as they're built differently than Model Ms (membrane bucking spring).
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: fanpeople on Mon, 12 December 2016, 11:11:41
Will these keyboards need bolt modding down the road?

They don't have plastic rivets holding them together like the Model M.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Giorgio on Mon, 12 December 2016, 12:49:39
This will be really fantastic in the next iteration. Lighter springs, cherry MX mount, slimmer abs cases.

Sign me up for two.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: dgneo on Mon, 12 December 2016, 12:52:30
This will be really fantastic in the next iteration. Lighter springs, cherry MX mount, slimmer abs cases.

Sign me up for two.


(http://i.imgur.com/OgsWogD.gif)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Damonskv on Mon, 12 December 2016, 15:21:47
This will be really fantastic in the next iteration. Lighter springs, cherry MX mount, slimmer abs cases.

Sign me up for two.

This is a joke? If not a joke, I am a little scared
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: romevi on Mon, 12 December 2016, 15:32:19
This will be really fantastic in the next iteration. Lighter springs, cherry MX mount, slimmer abs cases.

Sign me up for two.


(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=145947;type=avatar)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: supamesican on Mon, 12 December 2016, 15:38:12
Oh dang, xt reproduction keys? Thats awesome! I may order some 2 piece keys from unicomp now so I can test xt original, AT, 2 piece, these, and unicomp custom 1 piece all side by side by side by side by side.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 12 December 2016, 16:46:31
Sorry Giorgio none of those options will ever be available.  Those who miss the final deadline early next year will be out of luck :(.

Though the Model F does feel much smoother and lighter to type on due to the higher quality of materials in the Model F compared to the Model M in my experience.

Yes supa, the one-piece keys are being made from brand new molds currently in production.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 12 December 2016, 19:21:59
Though the Model F does feel much smoother and lighter to type on due to the higher quality of materials in the Model F compared to the Model M in my experience.

Yes supa, the one-piece keys are being made from brand new molds currently in production.

Highly captivating,  nothing more beautiful than the feel of Model-F keys and when they finally get shipped to their customers you will get never ending praise and worship once again, for this fine piece of keyboard technology.

Hoping Trumpie will fuel a new Manufacturing boom in the US of A to help bolster Unicomp into a better situation here to help promote American Built Products.  You lot suffered greatly under previous moronic regimes, that punished anyone for building anything on home soil.  Time for the United States to get back into making something more than just bombs and bullets again.

Really looking forward to vital history being made here.  Thank you Ellipse because it all comes down to YOU for making this happen.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Giorgio on Mon, 12 December 2016, 22:13:21
Sorry Giorgio none of those options will ever be available.  Those who miss the final deadline early next year will be out of luck :(.

Though the Model F does feel much smoother and lighter to type on due to the higher quality of materials in the Model F compared to the Model M in my experience.

Yes supa, the one-piece keys are being made from brand new molds currently in production.

:-)

It never hurts to try :-) but I'm sure that in the next years we'll see some genial improvements
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Mon, 12 December 2016, 22:27:55
Sorry Giorgio none of those options will ever be available.  Those who miss the final deadline early next year will be out of luck :(.

Though the Model F does feel much smoother and lighter to type on due to the higher quality of materials in the Model F compared to the Model M in my experience.

Yes supa, the one-piece keys are being made from brand new molds currently in production.

:-)

It never hurts to try :-) but I'm sure that in the next years we'll see some genial improvements

I don't think we will see the board you are looking for from Ellipse. I don't see him bastardizing this board for what you are looking for.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Giorgio on Tue, 13 December 2016, 02:09:50
Sorry Giorgio none of those options will ever be available.  Those who miss the final deadline early next year will be out of luck :(.

Though the Model F does feel much smoother and lighter to type on due to the higher quality of materials in the Model F compared to the Model M in my experience.

Yes supa, the one-piece keys are being made from brand new molds currently in production.

:-)

It never hurts to try :-) but I'm sure that in the next years we'll see some genial improvements

I don't think we will see the board you are looking for from Ellipse. I don't see him bastardizing this board for what you are looking for.


Bastardizing. LOL. It's called evolution.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: romevi on Tue, 13 December 2016, 08:39:05
Sorry Giorgio none of those options will ever be available.  Those who miss the final deadline early next year will be out of luck :(.

Though the Model F does feel much smoother and lighter to type on due to the higher quality of materials in the Model F compared to the Model M in my experience.

Yes supa, the one-piece keys are being made from brand new molds currently in production.

:-)

It never hurts to try :-) but I'm sure that in the next years we'll see some genial improvements

I don't think we will see the board you are looking for from Ellipse. I don't see him bastardizing this board for what you are looking for.


Bastardizing. LOL. It's called evolution.

Evolution is fixing mistakes. What you're asking is creating mistakes.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Tue, 13 December 2016, 10:59:28
Sorry Giorgio none of those options will ever be available.  Those who miss the final deadline early next year will be out of luck :(.

Though the Model F does feel much smoother and lighter to type on due to the higher quality of materials in the Model F compared to the Model M in my experience.

Yes supa, the one-piece keys are being made from brand new molds currently in production.

:-)

It never hurts to try :-) but I'm sure that in the next years we'll see some genial improvements

I don't think we will see the board you are looking for from Ellipse. I don't see him bastardizing this board for what you are looking for.


Bastardizing. LOL. It's called evolution.

Evolution is fixing mistakes. What you're asking is creating mistakes.

Yeah really. There is a reason Ellipse took on this project. He is recreating some great and highly desirable keyboards what you want him to do is far from evolution giorgio.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Giorgio on Tue, 13 December 2016, 11:25:49
Sorry Giorgio none of those options will ever be available.  Those who miss the final deadline early next year will be out of luck :(.

Though the Model F does feel much smoother and lighter to type on due to the higher quality of materials in the Model F compared to the Model M in my experience.

Yes supa, the one-piece keys are being made from brand new molds currently in production.

:-)

It never hurts to try :-) but I'm sure that in the next years we'll see some genial improvements

I don't think we will see the board you are looking for from Ellipse. I don't see him bastardizing this board for what you are looking for.


Bastardizing. LOL. It's called evolution.

Evolution is fixing mistakes. What you're asking is creating mistakes.

Yeah really. There is a reason Ellipse took on this project. He is recreating some great and highly desirable keyboards what you want him to do is far from evolution giorgio.

deleted
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: nickheller on Tue, 13 December 2016, 11:28:42
IBM caps have bars right?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Tue, 13 December 2016, 11:32:01
IBM caps have bars right?

 :)) :))
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: supamesican on Tue, 13 December 2016, 12:29:35
I have 4 questions.

If I order extra foam for down the road, will the foam come with the holes in it or will I have to make them myself?  And will the flippers be any different from those in the f xt? I am on the fence about ordering those, but I have an xt with a bork'd controller in it I can just use for parts instead of ordering 77 spare and save a few bucks if need be.  Would you recommend ordering some  extra barrels?  And this one is for a friend who i am trying to rope into ordering one of these too buthe  has no GH account(yet), how much extra is a custom case color?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 13 December 2016, 19:39:52
Yep the foam is pre cut with holes, as shown in the recent photos - you get a much closer fit than you would if you approximated the holes with a hole punch.  The new flippers will not be as rusty as your old flippers most likely :).  Some of the older XT/AT keyboards have flipper springs that are starting to rust - with new flippers and springs they should last a while longer than if you were holding 30 year old flippers as spares for the future.  Yes most extra barrel and flipper orders are for 5 to 10 extras of each.

Custom case colors (True Red or regular Gray) for the original style cases are $75 each extra.  There are no available custom colors for the ultra compact cases, which are available in hard anodized black or hard anodized standard gray.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: supamesican on Wed, 14 December 2016, 12:01:59
Only 10? I honestly expected more, but yeah I'll see how much I have left after Christmas presents next week. I'll for sure be getting some foam, and 10 of each of the other 2 if I can swing the extra well $10
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 14 December 2016, 19:07:23
Yes supa.  And feel free to choose free local pickup if you want to add accessories to your order - I will combine the orders to save you shipping costs. 

Yes the foam is equally important to the spare small barrels/flippers/springs because we do not yet know how long the foam's useful life will be.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 17 December 2016, 15:28:27
An update - we are three keyboards away from passing $170,000 in orders!

The factory needs an extra week from their scheduled shipment of the first-run parts for my inspection.  The key molds need some more work to make sure they produce parts to spec.  Hopefully the first-runs ship next week.

Below are some photos of the F62/F77 original style cases palletized and ready for storage at the factory.  These are heavy boxes!  They put 8 per box, so each box probably weighs 40-50 pounds - just the cases!

Once all of the parts have finished assembly and the factory QC procedures and have been packed for storage, then the factory will bring all the boxes together and assemble the keyboards with the configuration options specified in everyone's order forms.

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: pixelpusher on Sat, 17 December 2016, 16:19:23
An update - we are three keyboards away from passing $170,000 in orders!

The factory needs an extra week from their scheduled shipment of the first-run parts for my inspection.  The key molds need some more work to make sure they produce parts to spec.  Hopefully the first-runs ship next week.

Below are some photos of the F62/F77 original style cases palletized and ready for storage at the factory.  These are heavy boxes!  They put 8 per box, so each box probably weighs 40-50 pounds - just the cases!

Once all of the parts have finished assembly and the factory QC procedures and have been packed for storage, then the factory will bring all the boxes together and assemble the keyboards with the configuration options specified in everyone's order forms.

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)


I see mine, all the way on the left, bottom row!   :p

Thank you for sharing progress. I wasn't even expecting an update but here it is already.  Unlike certain other group buys that have issues and I haven't heard from in months now... you know who you are.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Wed, 21 December 2016, 05:03:56
I love jumping in here and seeing all this progress!!! Looking good Ellipse!!!

Edit: Ellipse did you end up getting a split right shift in black??? If so I might have to assemble mine with that.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 21 December 2016, 11:36:37
Yes you can order a black split right shift (1.75U) key as part of the HHKB set.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Phenix on Thu, 22 December 2016, 02:55:13
Unstepped rshift? And why not as single piece?)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: fanpeople on Thu, 22 December 2016, 02:57:10
keyboard boners for all
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Thu, 22 December 2016, 06:03:27
Yes you can order a black split right shift (1.75U) key as part of the HHKB set.
Nice... Where should I message you about getting mine with that setup... I ordered enough parts to do both, but I think I went with none split shift HHKB split bckspace.

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 22 December 2016, 09:21:36
Apocalypse a PM would be fine for making the change. 

Phenix the price is the same for the HHKB set and the single 1.75U key.  I have to pay for the cost of the 1.75U mold :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Phenix on Thu, 22 December 2016, 09:46:16
Oh - that's even better
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 22 December 2016, 14:46:59
An update on the dye sub keys - I was not impressed with the quality of the factory's dye sublimation tests on old keys so I am looking to do all the dye sublimation myself with my own equipment.  I want to make sure the dye sub work is on the level of the IBM XT keys and not on par with the later production.  A major dye sub firm in the US is advising me on the setup and process.  We are also likely to lose several weeks of production time for the Chinese New Year holiday, since the factory still has not finished with the first runs.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Want on Thu, 22 December 2016, 18:25:53
Am I delusional, or was there a pickable International shipping option before - which is now gone?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 22 December 2016, 21:53:02
Another milestone - we passed $170,000 today in orders!

You are right Want - I had to do a site software upgrade today.  The shipping charge now appears on the checkout page after you enter your billing/shipping address. 

Here is the order breakdown as of today - 368 keyboards!
Compact F62   20
Compact F77   32
F62   141
F77   175

Here is a breakdown of accessories ordered:
Extra Flipper and Spring   1442
Extra Barrel   1122
Extra Plastic Stabilizer Insert for keys   101
Industrial SSK Blue Keys   49
Front-printed keys F1, etc.   42
Extra steel spacebar tabs (pair)   36
Extra inner foam (F62, F77, F62 split shift, F77 split shift, F107, F122)   34
Extra Set of Brand New Production XT-quality one-piece keys   23
Extra F77 Case   17
Extra F62 Case - 'Kishsaver"   16
Apple/Mac Command-Option Keys   14
Extra PCB   5
Extra top inner assembly   3
Extra box + protective custom foam   1
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 23 December 2016, 12:45:56
The factory is ever closer to sending over the first-run samples!  The key molds still need some fine tuning so the first-runs will not be sent out this week unfortunately.

We also have photos of the compact case F62 and F77 test assembly and packaging! 

Please note that the cases have not yet all been hard anodized (one bottom case has been hard anodized, shown below) - the production finish will not look like the other photos.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
[attachimg=6]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: cjhard on Fri, 23 December 2016, 12:50:22
That compact case is actually really spiffy looking from that angle...

Filing under things I might spend my maybe/maybe not tax return on o_o;
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Fri, 23 December 2016, 17:33:48
(Attachment Link)

The packaging is superb, subtle yet bold. 

Letting the whole world know something special is inside, as always Ellipse your posts have indeed festered a growing love for the buckling spring and it all came down to you for starting this whole adventure.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: dante on Fri, 23 December 2016, 19:11:05
Ellipse if you started a fundraiser for raising money to buy Unicomp you would have a lot of support!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 25 December 2016, 14:04:07
Some more photos from the factory!

The metal space bar tabs have been welded onto the top inner assembly - this is an upgrade from the brittle plastic tabs found on the original Model F's.

The foam molds have been completed and the first run samples are finished.  The samples look a bit dirty but the final ones will not be!

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: steveachu on Tue, 27 December 2016, 05:46:31
Very interested in one of these. Just a few questions, sorry if they've been answered:

1) Is the USB cable detachable/replaceable?

2) For the HHKB style backspace and split shift, will the backspace be above the enter button like the HHKB or still in the original position above the "\"? And I'm assuming the split-shift places the function key to the right of the shift?

Thanks!  :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: jknight on Tue, 27 December 2016, 06:52:46
What is a flipper?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Tue, 27 December 2016, 06:57:44
What is a flipper?
Someone who works down at a Pizzeria  ;D .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 27 December 2016, 10:21:52
jknight-replied over PM
steve - yes the USB is detachable and replaceable - it is a micro USB cable.  And here's an approximate look at the expected HHKB style layout:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/questions/question/are-there-any-photos-of-the-hhkb-layout/

Yep the 1U function key is to the right of right shift for the HHKB style layout option.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: steveachu on Tue, 27 December 2016, 20:44:28
jknight-replied over PM
steve - yes the USB is detachable and replaceable - it is a micro USB cable.  And here's an approximate look at the expected HHKB style layout:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/questions/question/are-there-any-photos-of-the-hhkb-layout/

Yep the 1U function key is to the right of right shift for the HHKB style layout option.

Man, this looks great. Do you happen to have any pics of the usb port by chance? Nevermind, just saw the port after you open it up in the demo video you have!

Just put up my HHKB for sale to get some funds for this.  :D

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Tue, 27 December 2016, 21:11:26
Just put up my HHKB for sale to get some funds for this.  :D

Smart man for doing it, always get rid of any foul HHKB in da house.

Make way for something FAR superior in every way  :thumb: .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 28 December 2016, 13:45:15
The DHL Express shipment containing the sample boxes, foam, springs, and compact case keyboard prototypes has arrived!  Doing the testing now...
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Atredl on Wed, 28 December 2016, 14:43:53
The DHL Express shipment containing the sample boxes, foam, springs, and compact case keyboard prototypes has arrived!  Doing the testing now...

I've got something to say. I've loved how often you update the thread even when things slow down. This has been one of the least stressful GB's I've been part of because of the communication.

And for that, I thank you. :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 29 December 2016, 21:35:39
The working Compact Case F62 and F77 keyboard first-runs pass inspection! 

The video at the bottom shows the unboxing, teardown, and typing test where I reached 100 WPM on the compact F62 and 90+ on the second test with the compact F77.

The keyboards will not look like the photos below!  The cases are just the raw aluminum and do not have the hard anodized finishing.  The keys are Unicomp - the new key molds are not yet ready.  Please see the two metal bottom case sheets that are what the regular gray and black hard anodized options will look like.  The factory did a great job on the hard anodizing - very high end looking!

The first-runs are an important part of the manufacturing process even though they add some time to the process.  I have two pages of feedback for the factory so far on small improvements.  You can see some of the areas that need improvement:
-Adding more holes to the compact cases to ensure a near-gapless fit between the case parts
-The top inner assembly holes for the barrels were about 0.2mm too large
-The boxes need to be a little bigger to fit the extra parts (keys, etc.)
-The boxes should have dark blue text, not black
-The bezel has too much space above the top row of keys compared to the bottom row
-The factory did not send the most recent update of the top inner assembly incorporating some small adjustments
-Flat top screws countersunk into the case should have been used everywhere
-Need better QC on the springs to match the specifications

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
[attachimg=6]

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: duface on Thu, 29 December 2016, 21:38:29
The working Compact Case F62 and F77 keyboard first-runs pass inspection! 

A video will be up in a few hours including an unboxing, teardown, and typing test where I reached 100 WPM on the compact F62 and 90+ on the second test with the compact F77.

The keyboards will not look like the photos below!  The cases are just the raw aluminum and do not have the hard anodized finishing.  The keys are Unicomp - the new key molds are not yet ready.  Please see the two metal bottom case sheets that are what the regular gray and black hard anodized options will look like.  The factory did a great job on the hard anodizing - very high end looking!

The first-runs are an important part of the manufacturing process even though they add some time to the process.  I have two pages of feedback for the factory so far on small improvements.  You can see some of the areas that need improvement:
-Adding more holes to the compact cases to ensure a near-gapless fit between the case parts
-The top inner assembly holes for the barrels were about 0.2mm too large
-The boxes need to be a little bigger to fit the extra parts (keys, etc.)
-The boxes should have dark blue text, not black
-The bezel has too much space above the top row of keys compared to the bottom row
-The factory did not send the most recent update of the top inner assembly incorporating some small adjustments
-Flat top screws countersunk into the case should have been used everywhere
-Need better QC on the springs to match the specifications

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Woah the compact case looks pretty sweet. Trying to convince myself that I don't need one...
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 29 December 2016, 22:37:09
The working Compact Case F62 and F77 keyboard first-runs pass inspection! 

(Attachment Link)


As much as I appreciate the efforts you've gone through to try and encapsulate the American Tradition into an all Aluminium Casing it still looks far better in the original casing done in  Zinc.

Suppose you could call me a traditionalist and I make no apologies here for being that way BUT I only love the original proposal for this keyboard because it looks 99.9% like an original model done way back in the golden era of Model-F production.

Also your original design is far superior to the latest one which looks like some cheapo Yum-Cha design suitable only for bottom of the barrel keyboards.  See what happens when you start messing around with perfection you start to distort good taste and appropriate behaviour  8) .

Far better to stick with what works perfectly instead of now making weird looking keyboards that don't look like anything except another Flebay Model done for the Gamer masses.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ryahirv on Fri, 30 December 2016, 00:37:54
Looking amazing in those modern casings!

So so cool.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 01 January 2017, 09:24:19
Yep the modern cases look good and they are also quite solid despite being much lighter.

We passed $175,000 in orders! 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: supamesican on Mon, 02 January 2017, 18:55:50
I got my extra 10 barrels, extra 10 flippers, and extra foam ordered. It didnt have an option for local pick up so I selected other shipping, so I wouldnt be charged twice since you said you'd combine my orders.


Also on these here (https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/industrial-ssk-blue-keys/) blue industrial keys, is it possible to get them as just the wasd and arrow keys or only as shown? And how much would that be?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 02 January 2017, 20:18:59
Great, that works supa!

Yes that should be doable - you can order 20 units of the "other customizations in $1 increments" and choose other shipping.  Please make a note that you want the wasd and arrow keys in blue.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 02 January 2017, 23:18:55
Yep the modern cases look good and they are also quite solid despite being much lighter.

We passed $175,000 in orders!

Again for the old and feeble here, what are the colours available for this NEW Aluminium Casing?

Is there a deadline for the colours specified or do you need extra time to apply them (anodizing aluminium) ?

YOU never specified anything on the FRONT page of this Group Buy about these NEW Aluminium Cases or even their available colours.  ALWAYS provide the info on the front page so you'll have far less of me bothering you about the colours you want to apply.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 03 January 2017, 23:19:01
thanks Elrick, I have added the following to the home page:

Case color options:  off-white/beige (to match the originals), Industrial Gray (to match the Industrial SSK), black, silver gray, and Pantone True Red powdercoated paint (original cases); hard anodized black, hard anodized regular gray (ultra compact cases)

I am thinking of making a separate landing page with more photos and with a more modern site layout.  A marketing professional sent me this link as an example style to consider:  https://britishrailmanual.com/
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Thu, 05 January 2017, 10:05:52
I dig the layout!!!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: U47 on Thu, 05 January 2017, 11:51:15
Just a suggestion, but it would be nice to have a "repair kit" option to purchase which contained all the things you recommend we stock up on for future servicing of the board (10 barrels, 10 flippers, foam, etc). I still don't really know what I should be getting for that purpose (I'm new to the buckling spring game).
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Thu, 05 January 2017, 12:09:26
Just a suggestion, but it would be nice to have a "repair kit" option to purchase which contained all the things you recommend we stock up on for future servicing of the board (10 barrels, 10 flippers, foam, etc). I still don't really know what I should be getting for that purpose (I'm new to the buckling spring game).

Nice idea. I would probably add one to my order if there was a noob-friendly kit like this.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 05 January 2017, 16:55:06
Just a suggestion, but it would be nice to have a "repair kit" option to purchase which contained all the things you recommend we stock up on for future servicing of the board (10 barrels, 10 flippers, foam, etc). I still don't really know what I should be getting for that purpose (I'm new to the buckling spring game).

Nice idea. I would probably add one to my order if there was a noob-friendly kit like this.

Would buy such a kit especially since I'm still a noob around Model-Fs.  A kit like this would be extremely valuable in any emergency situation.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: supamesican on Fri, 06 January 2017, 15:44:00
Just a suggestion, but it would be nice to have a "repair kit" option to purchase which contained all the things you recommend we stock up on for future servicing of the board (10 barrels, 10 flippers, foam, etc). I still don't really know what I should be getting for that purpose (I'm new to the buckling spring game).

Nice idea. I would probably add one to my order if there was a noob-friendly kit like this.

Would buy such a kit especially since I'm still a noob around Model-Fs.  A kit like this would be extremely valuable in any emergency situation.

I would add whatever I dont already have for it  to my order if there was a list of recommended stuff like that.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 06 January 2017, 16:54:48
How about something like this for a "Model F First Aid" kit: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/f62-f77-first-aid-repair-kit/

Everyone feel free to choose free shipping to add this kit to an existing order.  Here's the first draft product description on the web site:

Here is a kit of spare parts for refurbishing your Brand New Model F keyboard years or decades from now, long after production ends sometime this year.  Both kits are compatible with either ultra compact or original case F62/F77 keyboards.

Included:

--1 custom machine-cut inner foam, just in case the original foam loses its elasticity while remaining in its compressed state for years on end, you’ll have a spare.
--10 flippers with springs, in case you accidentally bend a spring out of shape when removing a key or cleaning your F62 or F77 or want to mod your layout and split a shift/backspace on your own in the future to get an extra usable key
--10 barrels in case you spill a sugary beverage in your keyboard and the barrels become sticky.
--Extra set of bumpers in case the originals wear out or you want to change bumper types – please add this store item to your cart if you want this:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/extra-bumpers/
--2 Extra stabilizer inserts – in case some fail or break when trying to remove them from the barrels to change a layout
--An original Industrial SSK (just kidding!)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ryahirv on Fri, 06 January 2017, 20:12:34
thanks Elrick, I have added the following to the home page:

Case color options:  off-white/beige (to match the originals), Industrial Gray (to match the Industrial SSK), black, silver gray, and Pantone True Red powdercoated paint (original cases); hard anodized black, hard anodized regular gray (ultra compact cases)

I am thinking of making a separate landing page with more photos and with a more modern site layout.  A marketing professional sent me this link as an example style to consider:  https://britishrailmanual.com/

So the modern case has 2 colors to choose?
Am I reading that right?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 06 January 2017, 20:21:26
Yep, black and regular gray, both hard anodized
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Sun, 08 January 2017, 23:04:25
How about something like this for a "Model F First Aid" kit: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/f62-f77-first-aid-repair-kit/

Everyone feel free to choose free shipping to add this kit to an existing order.  Here's the first draft product description on the web site:

Here is a kit of spare parts for refurbishing your Brand New Model F keyboard years or decades from now, long after production ends sometime this year.  Both kits are compatible with either ultra compact or original case F62/F77 keyboards.

Included:

--1 custom machine-cut inner foam, just in case the original foam loses its elasticity while remaining in its compressed state for years on end, you’ll have a spare.
--10 flippers with springs, in case you accidentally bend a spring out of shape when removing a key or cleaning your F62 or F77 or want to mod your layout and split a shift/backspace on your own in the future to get an extra usable key
--10 barrels in case you spill a sugary beverage in your keyboard and the barrels become sticky.
--Extra set of bumpers in case the originals wear out or you want to change bumper types – please add this store item to your cart if you want this:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/extra-bumpers/
--2 Extra stabilizer inserts – in case some fail or break when trying to remove them from the barrels to change a layout
--An original Industrial SSK (just kidding!)

Sounds good to me! I will have to get one orderd, thanks Ellipse  :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Mon, 09 January 2017, 02:12:23
How about something like this for a "Model F First Aid" kit: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/f62-f77-first-aid-repair-kit/

Everyone feel free to choose free shipping to add this kit to an existing order.  Here's the first draft product description on the web site:

Here is a kit of spare parts for refurbishing your Brand New Model F keyboard years or decades from now, long after production ends sometime this year.  Both kits are compatible with either ultra compact or original case F62/F77 keyboards.

Included:

--1 custom machine-cut inner foam, just in case the original foam loses its elasticity while remaining in its compressed state for years on end, you’ll have a spare.
--10 flippers with springs, in case you accidentally bend a spring out of shape when removing a key or cleaning your F62 or F77 or want to mod your layout and split a shift/backspace on your own in the future to get an extra usable key
--10 barrels in case you spill a sugary beverage in your keyboard and the barrels become sticky.
--Extra set of bumpers in case the originals wear out or you want to change bumper types – please add this store item to your cart if you want this:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/extra-bumpers/
--2 Extra stabilizer inserts – in case some fail or break when trying to remove them from the barrels to change a layout
--An original Industrial SSK (just kidding!)

Sounds like a great idea! I think I pretty much ordered this in extras already but nice to have it as a single kit.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: mumford on Tue, 10 January 2017, 14:19:23
Is there a CAD file for cutting the foam?  I think we need to preserve it in order to organize a group buy of new foam in year 2036 or so.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: supamesican on Tue, 10 January 2017, 19:39:34
How about something like this for a "Model F First Aid" kit: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/f62-f77-first-aid-repair-kit/

Everyone feel free to choose free shipping to add this kit to an existing order.  Here's the first draft product description on the web site:

Here is a kit of spare parts for refurbishing your Brand New Model F keyboard years or decades from now, long after production ends sometime this year.  Both kits are compatible with either ultra compact or original case F62/F77 keyboards.

Included:

--1 custom machine-cut inner foam, just in case the original foam loses its elasticity while remaining in its compressed state for years on end, you’ll have a spare.
--10 flippers with springs, in case you accidentally bend a spring out of shape when removing a key or cleaning your F62 or F77 or want to mod your layout and split a shift/backspace on your own in the future to get an extra usable key
--10 barrels in case you spill a sugary beverage in your keyboard and the barrels become sticky.
--Extra set of bumpers in case the originals wear out or you want to change bumper types – please add this store item to your cart if you want this:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/extra-bumpers/
--2 Extra stabilizer inserts – in case some fail or break when trying to remove them from the barrels to change a layout
--An original Industrial SSK (just kidding!)
do you sell just the stabilizers? I already have everything else but the bumpers(which I dont care about) on my order.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 10 January 2017, 20:16:09
Yep the stabilizers are one of the items on the web site.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: U47 on Wed, 11 January 2017, 00:01:38
How about something like this for a "Model F First Aid" kit: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/f62-f77-first-aid-repair-kit/

Fantastic! 👏
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 12 January 2017, 18:33:01
Here are the www.modelfkeyboards.com Google Analytics stats since 1/24/16.  It's almost unbelievable how many people have checked out the project! 

[attachimg=1]

The factory is still re-making the springs.  The last batch they sent were not to spec.  I hope to get the hard anodized compact case samples and springs in the coming weeks (though we are almost near the Chinese New Year holiday which is a few weeks long - all the factory work just about stops).
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: RocketGruntJake on Thu, 12 January 2017, 19:11:04
Any estimate when the early bird f62s will be showing up?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 12 January 2017, 19:31:07
Probably mid-2017
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PriusProblems on Fri, 13 January 2017, 08:21:16
Just wanted to clarify the deadline - so the 31st of January is the last time you will ever be able to order a "Brand New Model F Keyboard"?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: jhoang on Fri, 13 January 2017, 14:33:11
I'm very interested in this F62. I'll definitely get one.  :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 14 January 2017, 14:15:54
Prius, factory delays have continued this month and we are near the start of the Chinese New Year holiday, where the factories close down for several weeks.  Therefore I expect to extend the deadline.

Great jhoang! 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Sat, 14 January 2017, 19:32:15
Prius, factory delays have continued this month and we are near the start of the Chinese New Year holiday, where the factories close down for several weeks.  Therefore I expect to extend the deadline.

Great jhoang!

Special time of the Year since most of the earth's population will be celebrating it  :thumb: .

Don't worry when the keyboards and extra gear are shipped because we are in it for the LONG haul.  Currently we are just biding our time for this ancient wonder to finally appear and be shipped to all our places around the globe.

Due to the Quality that shall be invested within these keyboards we are well aware of waiting for this in line like at any Rolling Stones gig, because it might be the very last one ever held but it shall be memorable for decades ahead  8) .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: steveachu on Sun, 15 January 2017, 06:04:15
Prius, factory delays have continued this month and we are near the start of the Chinese New Year holiday, where the factories close down for several weeks.  Therefore I expect to extend the deadline.

Great jhoang!
Great to hear! Can't afford it right now since I'm broke. But I'm looking forward to landing my first full-time programming job either this month or next month, so if you do manage to extend it past Jan 31st, I would be ecstatic. :D

PS: A bit silly, but any chance of uploading some sound tests with a closer mic/cam? I love listening to sound tests you have, but kind of hard to hear for me. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: kawasaki161 on Sun, 15 January 2017, 06:21:53
Am I just blind or is it not possible to order via PayPal anymore?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 15 January 2017, 08:45:33
Correct, I no longer accept PayPal.  I accept bank/debit cards, credit cards, and prepaid cards.

steve, the sounds of the prototypes are not representative of the final sounds.  I hope to upload more videos once I have all "QC approved" parts in hand.  You'll definitely be able to order next month at this point.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: kawasaki161 on Sun, 15 January 2017, 09:00:17
Correct, I no longer accept PayPal.  I accept bank/debit cards, credit cards, and prepaid cards.

Guess I'll have to get a debit card just for this in that case :(
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 15 January 2017, 09:03:35
An alternative is to buy a prepaid Visa/Mastercard/American Express card from a store.  Then you can use the prepaid card to place the order.  That may be a little easier to do.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: 3K on Mon, 16 January 2017, 14:25:31
Correct, I no longer accept PayPal.  I accept bank/debit cards, credit cards, and prepaid cards.

Guess I'll have to get a debit card just for this in that case :(

I for example simply paid by bank transfer, from Germany to US. If i remember correctly there wasn't even a fee, i'd just ask your bank of choice if this is possible!

Edit: Paid by CC, sorry.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: jknight on Tue, 17 January 2017, 07:08:31
Quote
I for example simply paid by bank transfer, from Germany to US. If i remember correctly there wasn't even a fee, i'd just ask your bank of choice if this is possible!

What are customs like for Germany? Here in Portugal, they run about 50% of the item value.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: kishy on Wed, 18 January 2017, 12:21:53
I would just like to say:

This thread. I approve. OMG.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: romevi on Wed, 18 January 2017, 12:22:18
I would just like to say:

This thread. I approve. OMG.

 :eek:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 18 January 2017, 16:37:00
We passed $180,000 in orders today!  The factory hopes to send the updated spring samples before the Chinese New Year holiday.

Great kishy!  If you or anyone else comes across an original Kishsaver for sale please let me know so I can add it to my collection and so I can compare the reproductions against the original.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 18 January 2017, 17:02:00
How about something like this for a "Model F First Aid" kit: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/f62-f77-first-aid-repair-kit/

Everyone feel free to choose free shipping to add this kit to an existing order.  Here's the first draft product description on the web site:

Here is a kit of spare parts for refurbishing your Brand New Model F keyboard years or decades from now, long after production ends sometime this year.  Both kits are compatible with either ultra compact or original case F62/F77 keyboards.

Included:

--1 custom machine-cut inner foam, just in case the original foam loses its elasticity while remaining in its compressed state for years on end, you’ll have a spare.
--10 flippers with springs, in case you accidentally bend a spring out of shape when removing a key or cleaning your F62 or F77 or want to mod your layout and split a shift/backspace on your own in the future to get an extra usable key
--10 barrels in case you spill a sugary beverage in your keyboard and the barrels become sticky.
--Extra set of bumpers in case the originals wear out or you want to change bumper types – please add this store item to your cart if you want this:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/extra-bumpers/
--2 Extra stabilizer inserts – in case some fail or break when trying to remove them from the barrels to change a layout
--An original Industrial SSK (just kidding!)

Thanks!  I picked up a kit. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hoggy on Thu, 19 January 2017, 00:28:30
Ellipse, once boards are shipping and you start to get your life back, do you fancy re-creating the M15 - sorry I meant the F15?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: 3K on Thu, 19 January 2017, 15:44:33
Quote
I for example simply paid by bank transfer, from Germany to US. If i remember correctly there wasn't even a fee, i'd just ask your bank of choice if this is possible!

What are customs like for Germany? Here in Portugal, they run about 50% of the item value.

Actually I just remembered that I paid with a Credit Card, which i charged by Bank Transfer...

I do not know about Transfer fees unfortunately. Usually it is not that hard to get yourself a Credit Card, sometimes your Bank even offers one along the Bank Account with low activity charge. So I'd try this.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 20 January 2017, 22:59:31
What about prepaid Visa or Mastercard gift cards?  Can they be purchased where you live?  The site will treat the gift cards like a debit or credit card.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: HighPlainsDrafter on Sun, 22 January 2017, 00:25:05
Ellipse, once boards are shipping and you start to get your life back, do you fancy re-creating the M15 - sorry I meant the F15?

Or dare we even dream someday, some way, for a low-profile, ANSI-layout beamspring!?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Sun, 22 January 2017, 02:30:21
Ellipse, once boards are shipping and you start to get your life back, do you fancy re-creating the M15 - sorry I meant the F15?

Or dare we even dream someday, some way, for a low-profile, ANSI-layout beamspring!?

First things first - we need the Model-Fs to be done successfully here BEFORE we start insisting upon any type of Beamspring project.

Never start dreaming about something else when the current investment hasn't eventuated yet.  My accountant always reminds me of this vital fact.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 22 January 2017, 09:56:17
Sorry, just F62 and F77 as I said before. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: esquilax on Mon, 23 January 2017, 14:19:49
Obnoxious question: Is it still possible to change my order to a split right shift one?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: HighPlainsDrafter on Mon, 23 January 2017, 20:13:10
Sorry, just F62 and F77 as I said before.

Elrick: Who was "insisting"? Not me. No need to mis-characterize what I wrote and double-down your lecture on obvious points :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 23 January 2017, 20:53:19
esquilax - replied over PM
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 23 January 2017, 22:35:39
Sorry, just F62 and F77 as I said before.

Elrick: Who was "insisting"? Not me. No need to mis-characterize what I wrote and double-down your lecture on obvious points :)

Just going with what you posted here sunshine.  If you can not enunciate yourself clearly, why blame others for mistake  :p ?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hoggy on Wed, 25 January 2017, 00:04:07
Sorry, just F62 and F77 as I said before. 

Thanks.  Sorry, I probably read it and forgot, or didn't read it or... something - my bad. 

I hope you took the request as a compliment.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 26 January 2017, 19:18:33
The new batch of springs arrived this week from the factory, but they are 0.3mm too small and have been rejected.  I hope to get more samples when everyone returns from the Chinese New Year holiday in a couple weeks.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 26 January 2017, 20:15:17
The new batch of springs arrived this week from the factory, but they are 0.3mm too small and have been rejected.  I hope to get more samples when everyone returns from the Chinese New Year holiday in a couple weeks.

Don't worry they will send the right springs eventually  :thumb: .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: kmba on Mon, 30 January 2017, 18:35:40
Ordered.  Nearly last minute, but couldn't resist getting a brand new f77 one for myself being a huge model F/M fan.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 30 January 2017, 19:44:43
Great thanks tameone!

How'd everyone first discover the Model F or Model M keyboard?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 30 January 2017, 20:19:08
How'd everyone first discover the Model F or Model M keyboard?

Model-M through work - YEARS ago at my Workshop and the Model-F,  through YOU with the F77  :thumb: .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: kmba on Mon, 30 January 2017, 23:16:13
Great thanks tameone!

How'd everyone first discover the Model F or Model M keyboard?

Family purchased a PC with a model M board in 1989 that I've used daily every since.  Never had a since thing happen to it through 27 years and countless moves. Still rock solid and flawless.  Also acquired an 1986 shortly after that sits on a shelf. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: R4WBIT on Tue, 31 January 2017, 16:29:06
I'm so close to ordering one right now. How long will they be up for? Information from the past says that it ends today.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: riotonthebay on Tue, 31 January 2017, 16:43:51
Ellipse, I sent you a PM a little while back about changing my shipping address. Just wanted to confirm that you received it.  :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Phenix on Tue, 31 January 2017, 16:45:36
Great thanks tameone!

How'd everyone first discover the Model F or Model M keyboard?
I met with someone from Deskthority.
He showed me some Model Ms/various other switches, and described the F-SSK project so awesome that I built one. Finished around 5 months ago - Types so nice!
(meanwhile I had Model M)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 31 January 2017, 19:44:42
riot I just updated your address - sorry for the delay!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: user 18 on Sat, 04 February 2017, 00:40:36
Is it still the plan to allow orders after the first round can test and review?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 05 February 2017, 16:07:41
Yep user 18 that's the plan.

Here's the most recent update posted on the www.modelfkeyboards.com blog:

Everyone at the factory is returning for work this week.  We passed $190,000 in orders recently!

The immediate priorities are to get in hand the remaining first-run parts made to my specifications:  buckling springs, top/bottom inner assembly, boxes, and the keys.  After these parts have been approved, production will continue from where it left off (production has finished on the flippers, barrels, original style cases, capacitive PCB, controller PCB, ribbon cable to attach the two PCBs, and USB cables).

I don’t have a shipping deadline but am hoping for these to ship by mid-year from the factory; at this point we are waiting on them to do everything to spec.  I will not approve or send out something that I would not want to use myself, something not to my specifications and level of quality.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Sun, 05 February 2017, 16:17:07
What is the point of the "have your orders in by XX/XX/XXXX" Date? Everytime the date is reached it moves up by a month... This has been going on since like October, at least.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 05 February 2017, 16:47:56
Yep Pancake please disregard the changing target dates listed on the web site.  The deadline must be extended as long as there continue to be factory delays. 

There have been significant production delays with the factory for this project but we are getting to be in good shape now and only have some parts left to make.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: fanpeople on Sun, 05 February 2017, 16:48:43
What is the point of the "have your orders in by XX/XX/XXXX" Date? Everytime the date is reached it moves up by a month... This has been going on since like October, at least.


Yeah so good to see you read through the thread before **** posting, because that is what this is. If you didn't expect/understand the reasons for the time blow out, you are probably a 12 year old that has his parents bring you the bucket whilst you grind WOW all day and hit your Amazon dash button for more Twinkies. Then complain when the delivery driver comes at the end of the day instead of the morning.

What is the point of your comment? What are you trying to achieve by posting it? How does this contribute to the GB? What answer do you want? Did you read previous answers to more constructive forms of your question?

What do you hope to gain from that post?

Ellipse answers you and tells you delays in factory, parts not up to spec, the fact that this isn't the same as calling up ducky and having them send you 100 boards fresh of the factory floor? In fact its not even the same as having a set of custom key caps made? It is far more complex.

If you just went through a bit of this thread you would probably find that information rather easily and there would be no need for this repetitive bull****, yet you managed to put in a pretty obnoxious way.

WTF do you seriously hope to gain from your post. Have you even ordered anything from this GB or are you just **** posting to get your post count up for a sale or something.


Just explain your intent by posting? Will this magically hurry up the process? Do you need validation for something? Are you annoyed? Do you feel cheated?

Look inside your soul, ask yourself "was this necessary/did it assist in any way, and if not did it contribute to anything" if the answer is no then maybe not in the future kthx.


Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Sun, 05 February 2017, 17:30:08
Yep Pancake please disregard the changing target dates listed on the web site.  The deadline must be extended as long as there continue to be factory delays. 

There have been significant production delays with the factory for this project but we are getting to be in good shape now and only have some parts left to make.

As long as I keep seeing the nice progress updates you put together I'll be happy. I understand this stuff takes a very long time and is difficult to get everything working together, right?

By the way, how do I check my order? Just realized I'm not sure how to do that.

Anyway, thanks for the updates and response Ellipse. Good luck, and keep it going!

What is the point of the "have your orders in by XX/XX/XXXX" Date? Everytime the date is reached it moves up by a month... This has been going on since like October, at least.


Yeah so good to see you read through the thread before **** posting, because that is what this is. If you didn't expect/understand the reasons for the time blow out, you are probably a 12 year old that has his parents bring you the bucket whilst you grind WOW all day and hit your Amazon dash button for more Twinkies. Then complain when the delivery driver comes at the end of the day instead of the morning.

What is the point of your comment? What are you trying to achieve by posting it? How does this contribute to the GB? What answer do you want? Did you read previous answers to more constructive forms of your question?

What do you hope to gain from that post?

Ellipse answers you and tells you delays in factory, parts not up to spec, the fact that this isn't the same as calling up ducky and having them send you 100 boards fresh of the factory floor? In fact its not even the same as having a set of custom key caps made? It is far more complex.

If you just went through a bit of this thread you would probably find that information rather easily and there would be no need for this repetitive bull****, yet you managed to put in a pretty obnoxious way.

WTF do you seriously hope to gain from your post. Have you even ordered anything from this GB or are you just **** posting to get your post count up for a sale or something.


Just explain your intent by posting? Will this magically hurry up the process? Do you need validation for something? Are you annoyed? Do you feel cheated?

Look inside your soul, ask yourself "was this necessary/did it assist in any way, and if not did it contribute to anything" if the answer is no then maybe not in the future kthx.

I simply asked a question, as is my right to do so. If you would like to continue this discussion, feel free to PM me. But I'm not interested in getting into an argument, public or private.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 05 February 2017, 17:39:37
Pancake, you can check your order by looking through your emails for the order confirmation.  As soon as your shipping label is printed I expect to email out the tracking number along with what you ordered.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Sun, 05 February 2017, 17:47:37
Pancake, you can check your order by looking through your emails for the order confirmation.  As soon as your shipping label is printed I expect to email out the tracking number along with what you ordered.

Oh got it. Okay was having some trouble for a second (couldn't figure out who sent the email) there but I got it. Thanks! And sounds good! Looking forward to it!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Mr_BeastQuake on Thu, 09 February 2017, 01:08:07
Old enough to definitively remember the late 80's - 90's keyboards that were prevalent, young enough to not remember a specific situation. Our first computer was a Mac and my school had even older Apples. However, after the Seattle Reddit meetup, I was motivated to go see the Living Computer Museum and they have a wide variety of keyboards. My girlfriend at least entertained my sitting down at every computer but it motivated me to want to acquire a board.

I know the end date for the buy is TBD but can we get some decent warning before it does? I'm trying to figure out how to work this in and may just dive-in if need be.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 09 February 2017, 16:00:20
What kind of warning before the end of the final round would everyone recommend?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: kawasaki161 on Thu, 09 February 2017, 16:16:23
What kind of warning before the end of the final round would everyone recommend?

2 months prior:
-Update this thread
-Email
1 month prior:
-Same as 2 Months prior + Post on /r/mk and /r/mm
2 Weeks Prior:
-Another update here
-Another email
1 Week Prior:
-Another post on /r/mm and /r/mk
-Daily bumps on this thread
-Daily emails (include an opt-out link in every one)
1 Day Prior:
-Punch me in the face and tell me to finally f'ing order
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Thu, 09 February 2017, 18:12:09
What kind of warning before the end of the final round would everyone recommend?

Posts here would be great.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Thu, 09 February 2017, 20:38:54
What kind of warning before the end of the final round would everyone recommend?

2 months prior:
-Update this thread
-Email
1 month prior:
-Same as 2 Months prior + Post on /r/mk and /r/mm
2 Weeks Prior:
-Another update here
-Another email
1 Week Prior:
-Another post on /r/mm and /r/mk
-Daily bumps on this thread
-Daily emails (include an opt-out link in every one)
1 Day Prior:
-Punch me in the face and tell me to finally f'ing order

Yup that sounds like it would do it.

BTW Ellipse I have another question, one that I can't clearly answer based on your website: If I ordered between Oct 30 and Nov 2, What "round" am I in? Can I get a rough (+/- 2 months is fine) estimate from you when I might expect the board ?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Mr_BeastQuake on Sat, 11 February 2017, 13:03:05
Just a post with a decent amount of time out. Couple of weeks or something.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 15 February 2017, 22:25:50
I finished moving the web site to a new hosting service - it should be a little faster and load more quickly now, and with less downtime.

The factory has built the tooling to more accurately make sure all the springs are the correct dimensions - a spring that is even a little too wide may be more likely to fall off the flipper.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Dodgy on Thu, 16 February 2017, 00:59:12
Nice work so far Ellipse, keep it up. Can't wait to get my hands on this.  :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: olijuice on Thu, 16 February 2017, 22:35:31
Awesome work on this project, this looks amazing. About the bezel of the Ultra Compact F62, I was looking at your earlier post of the first run and honestly it's the one I am leaning towards. (I'm procrastinating on putting an order). Do the inner components prevent the bezel from being a bit thinner? I don't think I appreciate the old school enough  :-[ and really love the look of the modern style Pokers.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 16 February 2017, 22:41:05
Yes oli that is correct.  The ultra compact case has the smallest bezel possible without redesigning the capacitive PCB which has traces on the outsides of the keys.  The bezel looks large but it's about 1cm on the left, bottom and right sides and a bit more on the top due to the capacitive traces.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: olijuice on Thu, 16 February 2017, 22:50:47
Understood. Thanks for the info, can't wait to see the progress of it  :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 18 February 2017, 13:31:17
Today I tested the very first sample keys from the brand new molds but they are not accurate enough to my CAD files, so they have all been rejected.  The factory will adjust the molds and send updated samples in the coming weeks.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: happylacquer on Sat, 18 February 2017, 17:25:38
Weird question but I'm looking to get stiffer springs than the stock ones for my Unicomp model m and an IBM one as well. Any chance this GB could offer heavier than stock springs? I'd love to buy a bunch.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 18 February 2017, 17:29:11
Sorry happy, I won't be offering that.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: megahertzcoil on Sat, 18 February 2017, 17:57:38
Today I tested the very first sample keys from the brand new molds but they are not accurate enough to my CAD files, so they have all been rejected.  The factory will adjust the molds and send updated samples in the coming weeks.

Oh bummer to hear.  Can we get pictures anyway???
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 18 February 2017, 18:11:45
sure

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: megahertzcoil on Sat, 18 February 2017, 18:25:09
Wow, that's so great to see!  This is such a tease.

I can see why you rejected them. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Sun, 19 February 2017, 15:53:06
Wow, that's so great to see!  This is such a tease.

I can see why you rejected them.


You can? What's wrong with them?

Ellipse I thought you were getting the caps from Unicomp. What happened there?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: megahertzcoil on Sun, 19 February 2017, 18:44:31

You can? What's wrong with them?


There appears to be flash on the edges and the features on the stem don't seem all the detailed, kind of rounded.  I can't speak to other measurements, but given those, I can see why Ellipse was concerned about matching the CAD.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 19 February 2017, 20:11:18
Whenever I receive samples I compare the CAD file measurements against the samples using my micrometer/digital caliper.  I only approve samples that match the CAD files, allowing for a small amount of agreed upon tolerance such as +/- 0.2mm for critical dimensions.

Yes I'm not sure why they didn't remove the flash but it won't pass muster on the production units.  The features are fully detailed, probably hard to see in my photo and with white PBT, just some measurements are not within tolerance.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Mon, 20 February 2017, 03:49:46
thank you so much for your attention to detail Ellipse.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: tron on Mon, 20 February 2017, 10:41:40
Is the future repair kit recommended? Thinking I should have added it to my order if parts will be hard to source.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 20 February 2017, 10:52:36
We have passed $195,000 in orders!

Yes I am trying to get as many of those first aid kits in production as possible so they will be around after production ends this year.

Everyone feel free to place a separate order and choose free/other shipping and I will combine orders.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 20 February 2017, 23:07:56
As requested, I have started allowing down payments - $100 or more reserves your spot in line from this point onwards, instead of the end of the line a couple months from now. There's no extra cost as you just need to cover the balance when you are ready. Anyone who wants to do the down payment can order 100 units of the store item "other customizations in $1 increments" from www.modelfkeyboards.com/shop
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Tue, 21 February 2017, 00:58:04
As requested, I have started allowing down payments - $100 or more reserves your spot in line from this point onwards, instead of the end of the line a couple months from now. There's no extra cost as you just need to cover the balance when you are ready. Anyone who wants to do the down payment can order 100 units of the store item "other customizations in $1 increments" from www.modelfkeyboards.com/shop


Wait, how does this work for those of us who have already made an order?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Tue, 21 February 2017, 01:22:39
As requested, I have started allowing down payments - $100 or more reserves your spot in line from this point onwards, instead of the end of the line a couple months from now. There's no extra cost as you just need to cover the balance when you are ready. Anyone who wants to do the down payment can order 100 units of the store item "other customizations in $1 increments" from www.modelfkeyboards.com/shop


Wait, how does this work for those of us who have already made an order?

You are already in the queue since you have already ordered and paid :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Mr_BeastQuake on Thu, 23 February 2017, 00:17:59
Two questions from someone who hasn't been keeping up with this:

1. I'm primarily interested in an F77 and am just curious other people's thoughts on the ultra compact vs. the more traditional model.

2. If I'm putting in $100 for a "down-payment" do I need to specify the color, whether I'd like an F77 or F62, etc. in the comments when I do so?

Gracias
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Kavik on Thu, 23 February 2017, 01:03:51
Two questions from someone who hasn't been keeping up with this:

1. I'm primarily interested in an F77 and am just curious other people's thoughts on the ultra compact vs. the more traditional model.

2. If I'm putting in $100 for a "down-payment" do I need to specify the color, whether I'd like an F77 or F62, etc. in the comments when I do so?

Gracias

I couldn't make up my mind, so I ordered the original with a spare compact case so that I can swap between the two. If I had to choose just one, I'd get the original case for the following reasons:
-It's more like the original real deal, which has a cool factor to it.
-It's heavier (this thing is already going to be heavy, so why not add more weight?  :)).
-I believe it's made of zinc instead of aluminum, so it's powder coated instead of anodized. I think the powder coated finish will likely look a bit nicer. This also means more colors are available (not sure if that's still the case though).
-Overall, I think the original case has more character and stands out from keyboards on the market.

That said, I still ordered a compact case also. I'm sure either one will be pretty nice.

Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 23 February 2017, 06:26:56
I agree with Kavik.  Regarding the down payment, yes it would help if you added your choices in the notes when ordering.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: axtran on Thu, 23 February 2017, 07:00:21
Ellipse I thought you were getting the caps from Unicomp. What happened there?

I'm glad I'm not seeing Unicomp keycaps. They probably have the worst molds--they even use deformed keys on fulfilling their production orders. It's disheartening to get keycaps with base stems that aren't even molded completely, and I've had them on all of my Unicomp-ordered boards.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Thu, 23 February 2017, 11:35:47
Ellipse I thought you were getting the caps from Unicomp. What happened there?

I'm glad I'm not seeing Unicomp keycaps. They probably have the worst molds--they even use deformed keys on fulfilling their production orders. It's disheartening to get keycaps with base stems that aren't even molded completely, and I've had them on all of my Unicomp-ordered boards.

Fair enough. Just thought I'd heard that Ellipse was getting unicomp caps.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 25 February 2017, 15:31:08
Yes the Unicomp caps were the original plan as I was expecting about 50-100 orders, too low for molds to be feasible. 

Now that we are up to 422 keyboards ordered (over $195,000!) I was able to order the construction of brand new key molds which are currently being re-tooled to meet the key specifications from the CAD files.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 27 February 2017, 22:29:33
We passed $200,000 in orders today - a major milestone!

We are still waiting on the first run prototype parts to be made and then hopefully approved. I was hoping to get these earlier but the factory has been slow to get things going after the Chinese New Year holiday. Production of all parts can start after these first-run parts are approved.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Kavik on Tue, 28 February 2017, 10:27:41
Thank you for these continual updates, Ellipse. It stinks that the factory has been slow and you've had to return parts because they aren't in spec, but I really appreciate being in the loop with all the detail, no matter how small.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 03 March 2017, 21:24:57
The factory is expecting to ship the first run prototype parts by month end.

It seems like the factory may have not used the latest CAD files by mistake for the previous prototyping round, on at least some of the parts like the top inner assembly and inner foam.  To be safe I re-sent them all the latest STP files and they confirmed they will be working from those. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Pete on Sat, 04 March 2017, 16:20:33
Hi, I'm a bit late to this. Are orders placed now still part of the early bird round due for mid-year completion and delivery?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 04 March 2017, 17:14:30
Yes they are, though you will probably get it by the end of year - there are over 400 keyboards in front of you on line right now :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Pete on Sat, 04 March 2017, 17:33:27
...there are over 400 keyboards in front of you on line right now :)
Woah, that's a lot of keyboards! I feel almost guilty to be adding to your workload by placing an order... but I will. Thanks,  :)

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 04 March 2017, 17:57:56
Ha, no worries, I want to give the factory as many orders as possible before production wraps up later this year!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: kmba on Sun, 05 March 2017, 01:48:20
Considering you're using new molds and making caps specific to this build, any thoughts about making black caps with legends instead of just blanks?  I've always lusted after a black model m/f with black caps, and jumped at the opportunity, but I will always prefer legends to blanks.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 05 March 2017, 09:39:32
Nope I won't be doing black caps with legends.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: cjhard on Sun, 05 March 2017, 09:49:22
Is it too late to change from blanks to w/ legends, and would it affect my placement in queue?

Receipt tells me I opted for "Keys: Regular color blank keys (no lettering/legends) - Layout/Flipper Placement: ISO Ente", but I ordered thinking I'd get Unicomp keys and just wanted some caps to keep springs in place during shipment, and planned to swap in my Model M caps.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: sundin on Sun, 05 March 2017, 10:23:05
Yes they are, though you will probably get it by the end of year - there are over 400 keyboards in front of you on line right now :)
I paid mine the 28/01/16
Ellipse=Gon? :(
Seriously, a refund is possible?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: cjhard on Sun, 05 March 2017, 10:35:33
Yes they are, though you will probably get it by the end of year - there are over 400 keyboards in front of you on line right now :)
I paid mine the 28/01/16
Ellipse=Gon? :(

Nah, he's right there.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 05 March 2017, 10:53:06
sure cjhard, just pay the difference using the store item "$1 increments" and choose free shipping.  Your place would not change.

sundin I noted that there have been significant production delays.  Many of the parts finished production (barrels, flippers, original cases, capacitive PCBs, ribbon cables, controllers, etc.) but the factory is working on the keys, stryofoam, boxes, ultra compact cases, and inner assembly parts after the samples were not to spec.  Please be patient!  I will not accept subpar parts from the factory to ship anything early.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Sun, 05 March 2017, 12:48:43
Yes they are, though you will probably get it by the end of year - there are over 400 keyboards in front of you on line right now :)
I paid mine the 28/01/16
Ellipse=Gon? :(
Seriously, a refund is possible?

Ellipse has been in constant contact with us and has been providing concrete updates on the status of the buy.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: sundin on Sun, 05 March 2017, 13:38:55
Ellipse has been in constant contact with us and has been providing concrete updates on the status of the buy.
I know I know, i'm just kid, but two years, i find that a little bit too long...
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Sun, 05 March 2017, 13:40:29
Ellipse has been in constant contact with us and has been providing concrete updates on the status of the buy.
I know I know, i'm just kid, but two years, i find that a little bit too long...

Considering he is building a keyboard from scratch and having to test everything himself, I don't think two years is too long.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: cjhard on Sun, 05 March 2017, 14:22:33
sure cjhard, just pay the difference using the store item "$1 increments" and choose free shipping.  Your place would not change.

Dumb inquiry: The form mentions which international layout I need (because I like ISO Enter). Is US ISO acceptable, or is there a bulk pricing that I'd be screwing up for not choosing an actual international layout?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 05 March 2017, 14:45:00
Yes I can have the factory make a one off US ISO layout - please add 10 units of the $1 increments for this option and for the key and make a note of this.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: cjhard on Sun, 05 March 2017, 15:21:17
Follow up: Would it be easier for everyone involved if instead of special one-offs, I opted into an already established or popular ISO/international layout? I don't want to go too far against the grain...

I am a touch typist, so the actual legends don't mean anything to me. I just like the aesthetic of the legends.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 06 March 2017, 18:46:30
So not to stir up discontent, but the original estimate for this group buy was that people would have their keyboards by spring 2016. Ellipse, what is the current estimate for when you will mail out the first finished keyboard to a group buy participant?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 06 March 2017, 19:07:57
We are looking at mid- to late 2017.  Sorry again for the factory delays.  As noted before they needed to re-make some of the samples that were not to spec.  I would not want to proceed with these out of spec parts in order to meet any original estimated deadlines.

They expect to finish all remaining sample re-makes by the end of March.  Then hopefully if everything is approved they can finish up production in the coming few months.  Then they need to do the assembly and ship to me.  Then I will be testing each keyboard one by one and shipping them. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 12 March 2017, 22:20:45
The factory has completed the inner foam and spring first runs.  Now we are just waiting on the top inner assembly, bottom inner assembly, and key first runs!  Then they will mail everything to me by month end for inspection.   Then once it is all approved, production will be able to start!  Thanks again to everyone for hanging in there as the factory produces the best possible parts for the project.

The spring gauges also arrived at the factory to make sure all springs are all within the inner diameter tolerance specified.

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Tue, 14 March 2017, 05:03:49
praise the sun!!!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 15 March 2017, 02:15:53
We are looking at mid- to late 2017.  Then I will be testing each keyboard one by one and shipping them.

Still salivating for this, one and only keyboard design  :thumb: .

Even if it rolls round to 2018, still willing to wait for this no matter the consequences.......
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: dante on Wed, 15 March 2017, 09:27:42
So not to stir up discontent, but the original estimate for this group buy was that people would have their keyboards by spring 2016. Ellipse, what is the current estimate for when you will mail out the first finished keyboard to a group buy participant?

If you are looking for a legitimate concern and have time to kill head on over to this thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74678.0
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: busgamer7394 on Wed, 15 March 2017, 10:03:03
I could also make resin cast mods, for this board. If there is an intrest I could ship you some samples.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: busgamer7394 on Wed, 15 March 2017, 10:05:07
If I made some resin cast model F caps, how many would I have to send you to get a board for myself?

Samples of my work
https://goo.gl/photos/1fbVnjAYczqmRJRW7
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Wed, 15 March 2017, 11:28:13
So not to stir up discontent, but the original estimate for this group buy was that people would have their keyboards by spring 2016. Ellipse, what is the current estimate for when you will mail out the first finished keyboard to a group buy participant?

If you are looking for a legitimate concern and have time to kill head on over to this thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74678.0

Could you explain that? I don't understand.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: busgamer7394 on Wed, 15 March 2017, 11:42:12
So not to stir up discontent, but the original estimate for this group buy was that people would have their keyboards by spring 2016. Ellipse, what is the current estimate for when you will mail out the first finished keyboard to a group buy participant?

If you are looking for a legitimate concern and have time to kill head on over to this thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74678.0

Could you explain that? I don't understand.

People in that group buy didn't get their orders and never received a refund. The same guy is now running a new group buy and just kinda ignores questions not related to the new one.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Wed, 15 March 2017, 22:53:40
Yo this isn't the place for all that. Sucks it's happening but make a thread for that.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Thu, 16 March 2017, 02:31:11
So not to stir up discontent, but the original estimate for this group buy was that people would have their keyboards by spring 2016. Ellipse, what is the current estimate for when you will mail out the first finished keyboard to a group buy participant?

If you are looking for a legitimate concern and have time to kill head on over to this thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74678.0

Could you explain that? I don't understand.

People in that group buy didn't get their orders and never received a refund. The same guy is now running a new group buy and just kinda ignores questions not related to the new one.

Ya what feng is doing is absolutely not right but your linking his thread put at least me under the impression that group buy was associated with Ellipse, which doesn't seem to be the case, so I really think it's completely irrelevant. Stick to what's going on with this project and what Ellipse is doing. I really don't care about anything else.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 16 March 2017, 03:36:04
Stick to what's going on with this project and what Ellipse is doing. I really don't care about anything else.

Makes perfect sense.  I know other Group Buys will go pear-shaped but that is not our concern here for this Model-F keyboard.

Thus far Ellipse has ALWAYS provided on going reporting, unlike some other people here on Geekhack that say nothing when running a Group Buy.  Part of joining any GB some times you get LUCKY and actually receive something, other times you get your wallet gang-raped by certain scum-bags and receive only contempt and lies.

Just be glad thus far, we all haven't been gaped by anyone here in this F62+F77 section  8) .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: dante on Thu, 16 March 2017, 09:21:04
Ya what feng is doing is absolutely not right but your linking his thread put at least me under the impression that group buy was associated with Ellipse, which doesn't seem to be the case, so I really think it's completely irrelevant. Stick to what's going on with this project and what Ellipse is doing. I really don't care about anything else.

I was just pointing out to a moderator that there is a con in progress and it might be a better use of their time to pursue that one instead of the GB containing videos/photos/constant communication/etc.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Thu, 16 March 2017, 14:31:14
I was just pointing out to a moderator that there is a con in progress and it might be a better use of their time to pursue that one instead of the GB containing videos/photos/constant communication/etc.

Nobody's "pursuing" this group buy. I'm a participant and I asked for clarification on the current finish date. Thank you for pointing out the feng situation, but let's drop it in this thread.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 16 March 2017, 21:52:48
For anyone not following the threads as closely, feel free to check out www.modelfkeyboards.com/blog for periodic project updates.  You'll always know the current status of the project by checking there. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: digi on Fri, 17 March 2017, 12:27:34
Stick to what's going on with this project and what Ellipse is doing. I really don't care about anything else.

Makes perfect sense.  I know other Group Buys will go pear-shaped but that is not our concern here for this Model-F keyboard.

Thus far Ellipse has ALWAYS provided on going reporting, unlike some other people here on Geekhack that say nothing when running a Group Buy.  Part of joining any GB some times you get LUCKY and actually receive something, other times you get your wallet gang-raped by certain scum-bags and receive only contempt and lies.

Just be glad thus far, we all haven't been gaped by anyone here in this F62+F77 section  8) .

Pretty sure Elrick is my favorite person on GH... dude goes from 0 to 100 real quick..
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 23 March 2017, 20:17:13
The factory sent an update that they are still on track for shipping the first run samples by the end of next week.  They are still working on everything.  They did another check on the key molds but they were judged to require further adjustment before they are production ready to this project's standards.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Pete on Mon, 27 March 2017, 05:49:28
I'm really excited about this project. Kind of surprised about the quality issues from the factory... is that normal?  Anyway, this is going to be an incredible keyboard. Thanks Ellipse!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Jedi on Mon, 27 March 2017, 06:18:13
I'm really excited about this project. Kind of surprised about the quality issues from the factory... is that normal? 

It's way too normal that there can be necessary adjustments needed even after specifications are given to the factory. For references to similar projects the M|F and Model 01 group buys are all epic major projects that started from the ground up. Ellipse is doing one helluva job keeping us aware of the status (along with the other before mentioned GB runners).  Welcome to GBs where patience and confidence in the GB leaders will make the wait all the more worth it in the end :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 27 March 2017, 18:45:07
Yes Pete, with the number of molds and parts requiring high tolerances to match that of the originals, the project has taken longer. 

As noted before, much of the delay is due to rejecting rounds of out of spec prototypes in order to get everything right.  It is definitely worth it, seeing the great job the factory has done on the completed parts (barrels, flippers, original die cast powdercoated cases, PCBs, controllers, etc.).
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: RocketGruntJake on Tue, 28 March 2017, 10:50:43
Yes Pete, with the number of molds and parts requiring high tolerances to match that of the originals, the project has taken longer. 

As noted before, much of the delay is due to rejecting rounds of out of spec prototypes in order to get everything right.  It is definitely worth it, seeing the great job the factory has done on the completed parts (barrels, flippers, original die cast powdercoated cases, PCBs, controllers, etc.).

So realistically when will you be shipping out the first boards?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Tue, 28 March 2017, 11:42:17
Yes Pete, with the number of molds and parts requiring high tolerances to match that of the originals, the project has taken longer. 

As noted before, much of the delay is due to rejecting rounds of out of spec prototypes in order to get everything right.  It is definitely worth it, seeing the great job the factory has done on the completed parts (barrels, flippers, original die cast powdercoated cases, PCBs, controllers, etc.).

So realistically when will you be shipping out the first boards?

Ellipse obviously would know better, but my estimate is August.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Tue, 28 March 2017, 11:48:30
Yes Pete, with the number of molds and parts requiring high tolerances to match that of the originals, the project has taken longer. 

As noted before, much of the delay is due to rejecting rounds of out of spec prototypes in order to get everything right.  It is definitely worth it, seeing the great job the factory has done on the completed parts (barrels, flippers, original die cast powdercoated cases, PCBs, controllers, etc.).

So realistically when will you be shipping out the first boards?

Ellipse obviously would know better, but my estimate is August.

This was the last update regarding shipping times from Ellipse

We are looking at mid- to late 2017.  Sorry again for the factory delays.  As noted before they needed to re-make some of the samples that were not to spec.  I would not want to proceed with these out of spec parts in order to meet any original estimated deadlines.

They expect to finish all remaining sample re-makes by the end of March.  Then hopefully if everything is approved they can finish up production in the coming few months.  Then they need to do the assembly and ship to me.  Then I will be testing each keyboard one by one and shipping them.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: 3K on Tue, 28 March 2017, 12:30:58
Quote from: Ellipse
Then they need to do the assembly and ship to me.  Then I will be testing each keyboard one by one and shipping them.

Will you also leave your signature on each of them?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 28 March 2017, 20:09:33
There will be a label of all the early bird and other project contributors inside at the very least.

Also we crossed another major milestone - $205,000 in orders (incl. shipping)!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: digi on Wed, 29 March 2017, 14:34:41
Any plans for a Model F SSK after this GB is all done? :D
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Phenix on Wed, 29 March 2017, 14:43:18
Any plans for a Model F SSK after this GB is all done? :D
For what? Lot_lizard is doing this already..
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: digi on Wed, 29 March 2017, 14:47:11
Any plans for a Model F SSK after this GB is all done? :D
For what? Lot_lizard is doing this already..

Please link
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Phenix on Wed, 29 March 2017, 14:48:17
Any plans for a Model F SSK after this GB is all done? :D
For what? Lot_lizard is doing this already..

Please link
Google M/F SSK on deskthority.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdeskthority%2Enet%2Fviewtopic%2Ephp%3Ft%3D15091&share_tid=15091&share_fid=17382&share_type=t
Model MF - GB CLOSED
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 29 March 2017, 15:40:40
Sorry no.  I suggest the F77 which is very close to the SSK except the function keys are embedded as a second layer on the F77 as opposed to being separate keys.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 29 March 2017, 21:29:41
Sorry no.  I suggest the F77 which is very close to the SSK except the function keys are embedded as a second layer on the F77 as opposed to being separate keys.

The F77 is perfection personified, anyone else wanting something different needs their head read and then firmly detached from their body  >:D .

The F77 is the ONLY keyboard you will ever need in Life, just as Moses had chiseled out the the full commandments on stone and through his anger, broke the most important section that clearly mentioned - the F77 being used to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Religious scholars always seem to ignore that vital piece of info from God  :thumb: .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: digi on Wed, 29 March 2017, 21:34:02
Sorry no.  I suggest the F77 which is very close to the SSK except the function keys are embedded as a second layer on the F77 as opposed to being separate keys.

The F77 is perfection personified, anyone else wanting something different needs their head read and then firmly detached from their body  >:D .

The F77 is the ONLY keyboard you will ever need in Life, just as Moses had chiseled out the the full commandments on stone and through his anger, broke the most important section that clearly mentioned - the F77 being used to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Religious scholars always seem to ignore that vital piece of info from God  :thumb: .

YES!!!!!!!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Jedi on Wed, 29 March 2017, 23:29:19
The F77 is the ONLY keyboard you will ever need in Life, just as Moses had chiseled out the the full commandments on stone and through his anger, broke the most important section that clearly mentioned - the F77 being used to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Religious scholars always seem to ignore that vital piece of info from God  :thumb: .

F@#K Elrick I <3 you.  Where do you come up with this sh!t?!  Stop being a stranger and come hang out with us GHers more often, we need your wisdom more.   :-*
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Pete on Thu, 30 March 2017, 01:48:33
- the F77 being used to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Silicon Heaven of course.

(http://i.imgur.com/38Jj5r5.jpg)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 31 March 2017, 16:55:54
My preference is for the F77 as well - I like the separate cursor and extra keys.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: johnthedong on Fri, 31 March 2017, 19:53:57
. Ignore please
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: digi on Tue, 04 April 2017, 20:18:57
Hey Ellipse, are you open to just shipping orders without testing each one individually? I appreciate your kindness but I feel like this will really put things out a ways if you take this upon yourself. What are your thoughts?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 04 April 2017, 20:24:16
Nope I would not put something out without thoroughly testing it first, especially given the costs involved.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: digi on Tue, 04 April 2017, 20:25:46
Nope I would not put something out without thoroughly testing it first, especially given the costs involved.

Gotcha, so if you find a problem are you fixing each board yourself?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 04 April 2017, 20:28:58
Yes, though I am paying the factory for assembly and testing/quality control so I am just going to be the second thorough pass. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: digi on Tue, 04 April 2017, 20:30:27
Yes, though I am paying the factory for assembly and testing/quality control so I am just going to be the second thorough pass. 

10-4

How many boards are you at now? Over 1k?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 04 April 2017, 20:52:39
451 F62/F77 Keyboards ordered so far - over $210,000!

F77   216
F62   166
Industrial SSK Blue Keys   61
Front-printed keys F1, etc.   49
Extra steel spacebar tabs (pair)   43
Extra inner foam (F62, F77, F62 split shift, F77 split shift, F107, F122)   40
Compact F77   40
Extra Set of Brand New Production XT-quality one-piece keys   38
FirstAidKit   36
Compact F62   29
Extra F77 Case   21
Extra F62 Case - 'Kishsaver"   21
Apple/Mac Command-Option Keys   21
xwhatsit Beam Spring or Model F USB controller   17

The factory is waiting on a subcontractor/supplier for finishing some of the first run parts (hard anodizing, etc.) and another national holiday is this week so that has caused some delays (Tomb Sweeping Day).
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: digi on Tue, 04 April 2017, 20:58:24
Wow, you're going to have your hands full!

DO me a favor and ship mine first and Elricks last mkay? :D
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 05 April 2017, 04:42:33
DO me a favor and ship mine first and Elricks last mkay? :D

No probs, I've still got packaging from stuff left in the collections room from last year.  Unopened and the Mrs want's it all gone in the next couple of months, due to it taking up a lot of space.

Since I'm mostly an old lazy bastard, when it comes to opening boxes you can ship my order last - every time.  Not worried because I've got to clear out that room first before she turfs out everything in the dumpster.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 09 April 2017, 15:04:26
We are running low on Compact F62 and Compact F77 keyboards and spare cases - please get in your order soon if you'd like it to make the early bird cut!

Currently all original and compact case orders are expected to ship with the early bird round.

Also another reminder that I am offering free shipping if you'd like to add a First Aid kit to your order - just choose free/other shipping.  The First Aid kits come with spare parts that will be great for repairs long after production ends this year.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: kawasaki161 on Sun, 09 April 2017, 15:56:33
We are running low on Compact F62 and Compact F77 keyboards and spare cases - please get in your order soon if you'd like it to make the early bird cut!

Running low overall or just the early bird stuff? I don't want to miss it, but I'd also prefer to order as late as possible (because of some financial reasons), so don't really need to be in the early bird round.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 09 April 2017, 16:06:44
Low just on early bird - I will be ordering more of everything for the final round later this year.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: 3K on Sun, 09 April 2017, 17:10:33
Also another reminder that I am offering free shipping if you'd like to add a First Aid kit to your order - just choose free/other shipping.  The First Aid kits come with spare parts that will be great for repairs long after production ends this year.
Does in this case the free shipping apply to the First Aid Kit only, or the whole order? Because this would save me quite some money  :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Sun, 09 April 2017, 17:12:22
We are running low on Compact F62 and Compact F77 keyboards and spare cases - please get in your order soon if you'd like it to make the early bird cut!

Running low overall or just the early bird stuff? I don't want to miss it, but I'd also prefer to order as late as possible (because of some financial reasons), so don't really need to be in the early bird round.

Don't rush. Don't put yourself at any financial risk. Don't be fooled into thinking this GB will be done any time soon, deadline or no deadline.

I rushed to get into the early bird group for this GB... my family helped pay for the board as a very earl birthday gift to make sure I could get in, and then one of the original shipping estimates was around my actual birthday. Fast forward 12+ months and that round is still open and no detailed shipping deadline. I'll be having my next birthday soon and highly doubt to see the board for that one either. Great.

Sorry if that feels like I'm being totally butthurt but I pushes my buttons to read "please get in your order soon".

Ellipse, here's my request to you: Please update your OP and correct all of the misleading details in there soon. I don't want to see you trying to drum up more orders on 438 day old GB when you haven't even updated the OP since November 2016. Do you realize how long ago that is? 138 days since you updated the extremely vague "SHIPPED TO ME" deadlines of "January or February". By scrolling back in this thread, 5 weeks ago you updated "We are looking at mid- to late 2017"... why not update your OP post with that?! Aye, I'm sure it's hard work making this keyboard a reality and I'm sure I'll enjoy it the day it finally arrives but your organization skills are a joke.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 09 April 2017, 17:44:14
3K, free shipping just for the additional accessories order :) as I will combine shipping together.

Nathan allowing additional orders is not delaying the start of production.  As noted before the early round has already gone into production with many parts finished (some we are still waiting on) - orders can still come through as I have ordered extras on my own.  I have been updating the web site blog at least monthly with status updates.  That is always an up to date place to check.  Due to factory delays things are taking longer than expected but I will not accept substandard parts to meet the estimated timeline.  I have updated the OP. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Sun, 09 April 2017, 18:36:27
3K, free shipping just for the additional accessories order :) as I will combine shipping together.

Nathan allowing additional orders is not delaying the start of production.  As noted before the early round has already gone into production with many parts finished (some we are still waiting on) - orders can still come through as I have ordered extras on my own.  I have been updating the web site blog at least monthly with status updates.  That is always an up to date place to check.  Due to factory delays things are taking longer than expected but I will not accept substandard parts to meet the estimated timeline.  I have updated the OP.

Right, I understand that new theoretically won't slow down existing orders, but what schedule are you telling these new orders? The whole timeline for the GB is very unclear.

All I want to stay up to date on is the ship date. That's it. The last update about that I can see on your blog is from December 30, 2016 "The current plan is for everything to be finished and shipped to me in March or April 2017.", which we know from this thread that it's out of date information. So really there is no where with easy to find up to date information.

Thanks for updating the OP but it is still extremely vague.

SHIPPED TO ME
* Current plan is for everything to be finished and shipped to me around mid-year.

What does that exactly mean? If you get hundereds of keyboards shipped to you it could still take weeks or months for you to ship them all out. I want to know the current estimate of when it will be shipped to the early bird buyers. Sure that can change, that's fine, but what is the current estimate for sending them out?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 09 April 2017, 20:15:51
Nathan the timeline is not completely outlined, you are correct.  I do not have factory-promised deadlines or anything more specific to offer.  The expectation is that people start receiving their orders starting mid-2017.

Orders will ship out in the order they are received (generally) and it could take me a month or two to get through testing everything once it's received.  The factory is doing the initial quality control and I will only be doing the final pass.

I am going to ask that everyone please be patient as the factory finishes production this year.  A lot of people are waiting!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Sun, 09 April 2017, 21:07:12
Nathan the timeline is not completely outlined, you are correct.  I do not have factory-promised deadlines or anything more specific to offer.  The expectation is that people start receiving their orders starting mid-2017.

Orders will ship out in the order they are received (generally) and it could take me a month or two to get through testing everything once it's received.  The factory is doing the initial quality control and I will only be doing the final pass.

I am going to ask that everyone please be patient as the factory finishes production this year.  A lot of people are waiting!

I'm happy to be patient as long as you're transparent with the state of the GB.

If factually can't provide anything more specific that 'mid year + a month or two' then I have a lot less faith in the the organisation of this GB. Surely you have a rough ETAs for at least one of the 4 separate in-production part that you are buying?  (Ultra compact cases, Key molds / keys / buckling springs, Inner assembly plates, Boxes / inner foam / outside foam packaging). Are you giving a factory money and they are replying with "ok, i'll send it mid-year!"?... I hope not. If you are purposefully withholding information about the time frame of the GB to avoid the potential backlash when you have another delay, then you could at least say that.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 10 April 2017, 12:32:29
Ellipse, I share nathanrosspowell's frustration. I believe the last big update to the OP from November of last year is the one I insisted that you make. I'm not so concerned about delays as I am about ease of understanding the status of everything. There's nowhere I can look to get that understanding. Your small incremental thread updates are great, but they don't give a big picture of where everything is and when things are expected to be finished.

The OP should get edited every time you post an update in the thread. Even a rough timeline would be great, something like

End of May: expected to receive part X
June: estimate for part Y
August: factory assembly & QA
October: finished boards ship to me
October-November: I test and ship out boards in order

Along with maybe a list of the order you will ship the boards in.

Just some thoughts. I remain super excited for this buy even though it will be 1.5-2 years later than initially expected. I'm not criticizing you for things you have no control over, I just wish it was easier to understand the big picture of where we are.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Mon, 10 April 2017, 14:03:55
In the same boat. The more transparency regarding timeline the better. I think we all know were in this for the long haul, but I also think we'd sit a bit more comfortably if we had a clearer idea of how long that haul is. So far, the timeline is a bit confusing.

I'd also like a clearer picture of what, in your (Ellipse) opinion, qualifies a part as a failure. What are your standards? What parts have you received, failed, and why have you failed them? What parts have your received and passed?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 11 April 2017, 00:04:25
Yes agreed it would be great to have an outlined schedule from the factory once I approve the final prototypes (hopefully this month).  I hope this post will catch everyone up for those who have not been following the threads and blog posts as closely, and also if you are interested in how things are made:

The turnaround time for the factory is longer than expected for correcting issues before the run starts but it is understandable given my quality standards and the unique aspects of bringing back 1980s production parts.  They have been very patient working with me for going on 3 years now.

The factory timeframe I believe was based on expectations of standard parts requests and finishes - they didn't know how challenging this project would be for the nonstandard requests, nor did I. 

The factory is actually building or adjusting their tooling for the special characteristics of this project.  For example they are building a machine that curves the PCB to match that of the originals as there was no equipment that could delicately deal with PCB curving without damaging the copper traces.  There is also tooling that precisely makes the inner assembly parts to the IBM Model F curve. 

The parts requiring the most amount of work, the die cast original style cases, took 3 months for die casting, final machining, and powdercoating.  Before then was maybe 3-4 months for making the molds and adjusting the powdercoating and texture.

The die cast case powdercoating process took months because the factory had to experiment with different paints and textures to match the original bumpy Model F 4704 texture - using standard powdercoating for the prototypes did not take long.  The kind of texture and paint color did not exist (no Pantone color!) so everything had to be custom mixed until the colors were a perfect match to the 4704 case sample from 1988 that I provided.  Then the powdercoating for some of the paint they tried did not stick well to the zinc so they had to switch to another type of paint.  They ended up having to mix the custom made texture into the custom color powdercoat paint to get everything perfect. 

The flippers and barrels were made from different proprietary materials (options had to be researched by the engineers) that were close approximations of the original plastic formulations that were never precisely disclosed back in the day (they work and the flippers perfectly convey the capacitive signal). 

Pancake I will recap examples of first try prototype adjustments needed - the passed parts are listed in the OP "finished production" section:
- Original cases - powdercoating color and texture needed a few tries to get right and accurately match the originals (which they do now).  Their earlier samples were very well made (and without much delay) to high modern standards but did not match the texture and color of the originals.
- Barrels - some measurement errors on my part of fractions of 1 mm caused the barrels not to interface with the keys like the originals; had to have them adjust the molds
- Keys - one critical dimension of the keys was not to my spec, probably 0.5mm off spec which made the keys not buckle consistently. 
- Springs - they tried a number of materials; also the spring measurements were not accurate enough, under 1 mm difference but it is noticeable and could prevent a key from buckling
- Inner assembly plates - they were not to spec, maybe under 1 mm too large (the width of space between the top and bottom inner assembly plates.  The first ones had holes that were too small to fit the barrels and some of the powdercoating was flaking.

In all cases I have held the factory to my standards and have rejected substandard parts. 

Once they determine exactly what is needed, production is approved to start and there should not be much of a delay due to rejection of parts.

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Tue, 11 April 2017, 07:12:21
oh boy
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: digi on Tue, 11 April 2017, 15:46:24
This is without a doubt, THE most challenging group buy EVER on Geekhack. It's the first time a keyboard has been reverse-engineered that isn't the typical MX custom board. This isn't a keycap set or another aluminum slab & pcb board :)

I think the only part that is debatable is the amount of time consumed by you (Ellipse) individually testing each board instead of shipping them out after such a long delay. It would speed things up to just deal with the issues on a case-by-case basis instead of touching each board....are you doing all the assembly yourself Ellipse? Or is the factory?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hpfalcon on Tue, 11 April 2017, 15:55:31
....are you doing all the assembly yourself Ellipse? Or is the factory?

Yes, though I am paying the factory for assembly and testing/quality control so I am just going to be the second thorough pass.


seems the factory would be doing the assembly
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Justins7 on Tue, 11 April 2017, 16:06:49
The whole process seems pretty interesting. There are so many obsolete/discontinued objects I would love to reverse engineer and bring back into production.

It would be great to see even more videos and/or photos of the process... Did the the factory engineers think you were crazy, Ellipse?

As much as I want this done quickly, it makes sense that it takes a long time, considering the obstacles, as well as time/care in each keyboard. (I'm actually glad I didn't find out about this until recently, or else I'd be impatiently waiting for 2 years.)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 11 April 2017, 16:35:47
Yo again, not criticizing for how long it's taking. That is totally understandable. I'm criticizing for the lack of clear status information.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: digi on Tue, 11 April 2017, 16:46:38
....are you doing all the assembly yourself Ellipse? Or is the factory?

Yes, though I am paying the factory for assembly and testing/quality control so I am just going to be the second thorough pass.


seems the factory would be doing the assembly

LOLLLLL Did you just quote myself asking Elilipse the same question twice???

Ok, i'm leaving now.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: digi on Tue, 11 April 2017, 16:57:24
Yo again, not criticizing for how long it's taking. That is totally understandable. I'm criticizing for the lack of clear status information.

I hear ya brosef
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Pete on Tue, 11 April 2017, 17:08:54
The whole process seems pretty interesting. There are so many obsolete/discontinued objects I would love to reverse engineer and bring back into production.

It would be great to see even more videos and/or photos of the process... Did the the factory engineers think you were crazy, Ellipse?

As much as I want this done quickly, it makes sense that it takes a long time, considering the obstacles, as well as time/care in each keyboard. (I'm actually glad I didn't find out about this until recently, or else I'd be impatiently waiting for 2 years.)

It is an amazing and ambitious project! I too am glad I only found out about this relatively recently :)

The more I read about the process of getting this keyboard manufactured, the more interesting I am finding it. I'm glad someone has the determination and fortitude to get this done.









Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Pete on Tue, 11 April 2017, 17:13:03
If anyone creates a book about the new popularity of custom manufactured and community-driven mechanical keyboards, this keyboard had better be one of the main entries.  I would be great to see technical details, lots of pics and diagrams, etc.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 11 April 2017, 17:37:50
This is without a doubt, THE most challenging group buy EVER on Geekhack. It's the first time a keyboard has been reverse-engineered that isn't the typical MX custom board. This isn't a keycap set or another aluminum slab & pcb board :)

well said digi.  The factory is doing the assembly and quality control; I am just doing the last pass of testing and putting orders together before I ship each keyboard.

Justins7 what were you thinking of bringing back?  I don't know what the factory engineers think of me :)

hashbaz I am positing that the lack of status and timeline information is due to the unexpected complications of re-making parts from the 1980s.  They have been fixing the prototypes for the past couple months and say they expect to be finished next week.  They will update me when they have corrected any remaining issues with the keys/key molds (seems like that's the last major thing we are waiting on before they mail the key samples).  They have been unable to meet a timeframe for retooling and re-making parts as I mentioned. 

Thanks Pete; I hope you join in!

Here are some photos from the factory's recent efforts on the keys.  They even rejected the test PBT color formulation as not matching closely enough to the original samples, even before I said anything!

As a note the space bar and other keys will not all be pebble as they will be the standard two color keys for those who ordered it that way - that is just the test output of the key molds.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 11 April 2017, 18:14:40
hashbaz I am positing that the lack of status and timeline information is due to the unexpected complications of re-making parts from the 1980s.  They have been fixing the prototypes for the past couple months and say they expect to be finished next week.  They will update me when they have corrected any remaining issues with the keys/key molds (seems like that's the last major thing we are waiting on before they mail the key samples).  They have been unable to meet a timeframe for retooling and re-making parts as I mentioned. 

Again, I am _not_ complaining about the delays. I am complaining that there is no current big-picture summary in the OP that we can look at to understand what the current status of the buy is. That is lack of communication on your part, and is what I've been trying to get you to do better at for a long time.

Your patience and dedication and technical prowess are fantastic -- I just wish you would keep the OP up to date. <3
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: a_ak57 on Tue, 11 April 2017, 20:31:11
Man, wish I hadn't actually finally paid attention to this.  I'm a sucker for getting (recreated) pieces of history and I've always wanted to try a Model F, but I've already spent so much money on keyboards/caps this year so it's hard to swallow spending essentially another $400 on something I wouldn't even end up using much if it doesn't override my topre love.  In any case this is a super cool project.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 12 April 2017, 23:03:30
The factory needs another week getting the key sample colors right.  They expect to be done by end of next week.  Then they can DHL all the final first run parts to me and we can hopefully start production soon after my testing.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: duface on Wed, 12 April 2017, 23:07:15
The factory needs another week getting the key sample colors right.  They expect to be done by end of next week.  Then they can DHL all the final first run parts to me and we can hopefully start production soon after my testing.
Great news! Are you getting a full set of first run parts? I'd love to see a keyboard put together with the all first run keys, case, etc.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 12 April 2017, 23:16:35
Yes I expect to put together brand new prototypes of all 4 models (compact and original case F62/F77) - the original prototypes have been working well for over a year so we are in good shape.

They will be sending the final finished/approved parts from the OP as well including the powdercoated die cast zinc cases made from brand new molds.  The original style cases are made of very high quality zinc and are thus even heavier than the original 4704s! 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 13 April 2017, 00:16:24
The original style cases are made of very high quality zinc and are thus even heavier than the original 4704s!

I love that particular word here on Geekhack;

"HEAVIER"


Gawd praise that magic word and all those who follow the IBM Model-F phenomenon  8) .

Although expecting extreme bollocking by the Post Office so have indeed prepared the wallet orifice for some serious damage here.  Not worried really because it's a once in a lifetime receival of something that will never occur again.

Much like a heavy night out in Pattaya, won't be able to sit down for a month when that happens  ;) .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: digi on Thu, 13 April 2017, 11:41:58
The original style cases are made of very high quality zinc and are thus even heavier than the original 4704s!

I love that particular word here on Geekhack;

"HEAVIER"


Gawd praise that magic word and all those who follow the IBM Model-F phenomenon  8) .

Although expecting extreme bollocking by the Post Office so have indeed prepared the wallet orifice for some serious damage here.  Not worried really because it's a once in a lifetime receival of something that will never occur again.

Much like a heavy night out in Pattaya, won't be able to sit down for a month when that happens  ;) .

LOLL YES!!!!!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: a_ak57 on Thu, 13 April 2017, 13:33:08
Well, against my better judgment I'm in for an industrial grey kishsaver.  Figure even if it doesn't dethrone topre I can always make back most of the cost via selling.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: digi on Thu, 13 April 2017, 13:50:44
There are a lot off group buys you can pass on, this isn't one of them.

Don't be left in the dust like Hoff or Halv..
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 13 April 2017, 18:17:59
Well, against my better judgment I'm in for an industrial grey kishsaver.  Figure even if it doesn't dethrone topre I can always make back most of the cost via selling.

Hey there, I'm a Thorpie fanatic and have bought just about every version of Realforce Keyboards here (they are the ONLY justified manufacturer) and I think this Model-F by Ellipse, shall be something truly inspiring.

You can always buy another Thorpie keyboard at any time in the future even that abysmal joke, the HHKB - BUT the Model-F keyboard is a piece of heavenly 'Angel Dust' that shall always be treasured and worshiped by all those who collect and use keyboards across the Globe.

Don't be one of those SAD bastards who thought that it will come around again, because it won't.  You may like to hang around on Flebay and wait for some deranged individual to sell their Ellipse keyboard but it will go for over $1000+.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: esquilax on Fri, 14 April 2017, 12:44:35
Is it just me, or does only running two group buys and closing shop seem like a huge waste?

So much work is going into proving out the accuracy of the different components of the keyboard. Things like the tooling and the formulas for the paint and the specs for the springs embody all that work. The actual manufacturing process is comparatively simple. It seems like those toolings and specifications at least must be worth something to some buyer, or maybe there could be a drop later or something...
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: tron on Fri, 14 April 2017, 12:59:08
Is it just me, or does only running two group buys and closing shop seem like a huge waste?

So much work is going into proving out the accuracy of the different components of the keyboard. Things like the tooling and the formulas for the paint and the specs for the springs embody all that work. The actual manufacturing process is comparatively simple. It seems like those toolings and specifications at least must be worth something to some buyer, or maybe there could be a drop later or something...

I agree. I think another group buy in ~ 2 years would be able to generate enough interest to justify another large scale production run. With so much time and money going into the molds and tooling, it's hard to believe they would be discarded after this group buy ends. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Kavik on Fri, 14 April 2017, 14:57:42
Is it just me, or does only running two group buys and closing shop seem like a huge waste?

So much work is going into proving out the accuracy of the different components of the keyboard. Things like the tooling and the formulas for the paint and the specs for the springs embody all that work. The actual manufacturing process is comparatively simple. It seems like those toolings and specifications at least must be worth something to some buyer, or maybe there could be a drop later or something...

I agree. I think another group buy in ~ 2 years would be able to generate enough interest to justify another large scale production run. With so much time and money going into the molds and tooling, it's hard to believe they would be discarded after this group buy ends.

I know absolutely nothing about manufacturing, but I think Ellipse once said that some of the tooling/molds wear out with use. However, I can't imagine that they would wear out with such a small production run, and information like the measurements and paint mixture recipes would certainly be reusable. That said, I bet it would cost a bit to store the tooling and molds until another run if there isn't enough demand to keep these keyboards in constant production. I'm completely ignorant of the industry and process, so maybe that doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Fri, 14 April 2017, 20:40:50
I know absolutely nothing about manufacturing, but I think Ellipse once said that some of the tooling/molds wear out with use. However, I can't imagine that they would wear out with such a small production run, and information like the measurements and paint mixture recipes would certainly be reusable. That said, I bet it would cost a bit to store the tooling and molds until another run if there isn't enough demand to keep these keyboards in constant production. I'm completely ignorant of the industry and process, so maybe that doesn't make sense.

In China they can manufacture ANYTHING at this point in time.  Making this Keyboard is difficult due to past tolerances achieved with the technology that was available back then.  BUT making a keyboard now that feels like the previous Model-F is not an easy task.

Ellipse still sticks to his guns regarding tight tolerances which the Chinese tend to ignore so most of the time is wasted in achieving his dimensions and of course trying it out.  That is what it's like when creating anything, you make an experiment in trying it out,  if it fails you make another until the PERFECT specimen is achieved and applied.  When the keyboard is put together, the most difficult keyboard to build compared to all the lazy/easy PCB tech, separate switches, currently used everywhere.

Unlike here in the West where most molds are stored, in China all molds are recycled again to make new molds for future projects.  In China space is valuable and suddenly to start storing multiple molds on the side line not making any money for the owner of the factory, doesn't compute.  They will re-use the molds either by breaking them apart and welding other pieces together or simply melting them all down for a completely new pour, for another design.

That is why in China you can't find any OLD molds anywhere because the metal in them is so valuable for recycling.  So all those here who think there will be another Model-F manufacture 2 or 5 years from now, can keep on dreaming about that because by the time you save up or hold onto that fantasy of yours, all you would of achieved is in joining the long que of absolute LOSERS, as they all start crying in unison that NO one told me about this.

But rest assured, that someone did tell you here on Geekhack, so you can go quietly to your graves missing out on owning this once in a Life-time keyboard, due to your own ignorance and stupidity.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: digi on Fri, 14 April 2017, 20:55:44
I know absolutely nothing about manufacturing, but I think Ellipse once said that some of the tooling/molds wear out with use. However, I can't imagine that they would wear out with such a small production run, and information like the measurements and paint mixture recipes would certainly be reusable. That said, I bet it would cost a bit to store the tooling and molds until another run if there isn't enough demand to keep these keyboards in constant production. I'm completely ignorant of the industry and process, so maybe that doesn't make sense.

In China they can manufacture ANYTHING at this point in time.  Making this Keyboard is difficult due to past tolerances achieved with the technology that was available back then.  BUT making a keyboard now that feels like the previous Model-F is not an easy task.

Ellipse still sticks to his guns regarding tight tolerances which the Chinese tend to ignore so most of the time is wasted in achieving his dimensions and of course trying it out.  That is what it's like when creating anything, you make an experiment in trying it out,  if it fails you make another until the PERFECT specimen is achieved and applied.  When the keyboard is put together, the most difficult keyboard to build compared to all the lazy/easy PCB tech, separate switches, currently used everywhere.

Unlike here in the West where most molds are stored, in China all molds are recycled again to make new molds for future projects.  In China space is valuable and suddenly to start storing multiple molds on the side line not making any money for the owner of the factory, doesn't compute.  They will re-use the molds either by breaking them apart and welding other pieces together or simply melting them all down for a completely new pour, for another design.

That is why in China you can't find any OLD molds anywhere because the metal in them is so valuable for recycling.  So all those here who think there will be another Model-F manufacture 2 or 5 years from now, can keep on dreaming about that because by the time you save up or hold onto that fantasy of yours, all you would of achieved is in joining the long que of absolute LOSERS, as they all start crying in unison that NO one told me about this.

But rest assured, that someone did tell you here on Geekhack, so you can go quietly to your graves missing out on owning this once in a Life-time keyboard, due to your own ignorance and stupidity.

10/10
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: 3K on Sat, 15 April 2017, 03:00:27
I know absolutely nothing about manufacturing, but I think Ellipse once said that some of the tooling/molds wear out with use. However, I can't imagine that they would wear out with such a small production run, and information like the measurements and paint mixture recipes would certainly be reusable. That said, I bet it would cost a bit to store the tooling and molds until another run if there isn't enough demand to keep these keyboards in constant production. I'm completely ignorant of the industry and process, so maybe that doesn't make sense.

In China they can manufacture ANYTHING at this point in time.  Making this Keyboard is difficult due to past tolerances achieved with the technology that was available back then.  BUT making a keyboard now that feels like the previous Model-F is not an easy task.

Ellipse still sticks to his guns regarding tight tolerances which the Chinese tend to ignore so most of the time is wasted in achieving his dimensions and of course trying it out.  That is what it's like when creating anything, you make an experiment in trying it out,  if it fails you make another until the PERFECT specimen is achieved and applied.  When the keyboard is put together, the most difficult keyboard to build compared to all the lazy/easy PCB tech, separate switches, currently used everywhere.

Unlike here in the West where most molds are stored, in China all molds are recycled again to make new molds for future projects.  In China space is valuable and suddenly to start storing multiple molds on the side line not making any money for the owner of the factory, doesn't compute.  They will re-use the molds either by breaking them apart and welding other pieces together or simply melting them all down for a completely new pour, for another design.

That is why in China you can't find any OLD molds anywhere because the metal in them is so valuable for recycling.  So all those here who think there will be another Model-F manufacture 2 or 5 years from now, can keep on dreaming about that because by the time you save up or hold onto that fantasy of yours, all you would of achieved is in joining the long que of absolute LOSERS, as they all start crying in unison that NO one told me about this.

But rest assured, that someone did tell you here on Geekhack, so you can go quietly to your graves missing out on owning this once in a Life-time keyboard, due to your own ignorance and stupidity.

That's new to me, really interesting.
Makes me imaging quite some scenarios...

Quote
Quote
Hey, when will the next production round start?
Hello, yes sorry, but never. We needed molds to build pink toy phallus.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: gaunt on Sat, 15 April 2017, 08:37:32
I read through most of this thread and a bunch of blog posts but I didn't see it mentioned anywhere: is the early bird round over? I ordered a few days ago (still waiting on the payment details) and I'm curious if I'm part of round 1 or 2.

EDIT: Thought of something else as well. I ordered the F77 with printed caps and the arrow/insert etc cluster on the right. Will an Esc key be included? I'd like to exchange Scroll Lock (never found a use for this key) with Esc.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 15 April 2017, 10:10:32
Yes I am still taking early bird orders gaunt, and yes you'll get the full key cap set (103 key).
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: gaunt on Sat, 15 April 2017, 10:36:22
Yes I am still taking early bird orders gaunt, and yes you'll get the full key cap set (103 key).

That's great news :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: supamesican on Sat, 15 April 2017, 12:57:42
I just realized I forgot to order an extra set of stabilizers, so my first aid kit will be complete. I got the hhkb layout so would I need the horizontal ones or the vertical ones? I think it should be horizontal but I want to be sure.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 15 April 2017, 13:23:15
Yep horizontal ones are the only ones used on an F62/F77 unless you use the international/ISO enter.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: gaunt on Sun, 16 April 2017, 06:23:23
One last thing, and I hope it's alright to post this in the thread instead of via PMs. I see in most of your samples, the regular F77 has a dark beige case, while the F62 has a white case. However, you also display a F77 with a white case (third keyboard image here: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/questions/question/please-post-photos-of-the-various-keys-options/). Is this a non-standard colour option that will cost an extra 100$, or cheaper/free since it's already used as standard for the F62? I think I'd prefer a white case for my F77, though it's not a huge deal.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 16 April 2017, 12:34:38
Yes gaunt regarding the original style die cast cases:

The black, off-white/beige, and Industrial Gray colors are all at no extra charge.

The extra charge colors ($75 extra) are True Red, Silver Gray, and someone just ordered a new color, International Orange (Aerospace Version) which should look great - it is the color used for some NASA space suits. 

To get a color of your own costs about $400 to $500. 

No custom color offerings are currently available for the compact cases - just black and standard gray hard anodized.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: gaunt on Sun, 16 April 2017, 15:43:56
Yes gaunt regarding the original style die cast cases:

The black, off-white/beige, and Industrial Gray colors are all at no extra charge.

The extra charge colors ($75 extra) are True Red, Silver Gray, and someone just ordered a new color, International Orange (Aerospace Version) which should look great - it is the color used for some NASA space suits. 

To get a color of your own costs about $400 to $500. 

No custom color offerings are currently available for the compact cases - just black and standard gray hard anodized.

I think I'm having a 'D'oh!' moment. What I called dark beige (seen here https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/f77-model-f-keyboard/) is really 'industrial gray' while 'off-white/beige' is the normal white/cream colour, isn't it? If that's the case then everything is peachy, as that's what I already ordered :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 16 April 2017, 18:06:51
Yep that is right
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 20 April 2017, 16:56:04
We have a new premium color offering!  Anyone else interested in International Orange (Aerospace) for your original style powdercoated case?  Someone plans on ordering it for the final round (it would delay any early bird orders unless you'd want it as a spare case with separate shipping).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_orange
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: pixelpusher on Sat, 22 April 2017, 14:11:12
We have a new premium color offering!  Anyone else interested in International Orange (Aerospace) for your original style powdercoated case?  Someone plans on ordering it for the final round (it would delay any early bird orders unless you'd want it as a spare case with separate shipping).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_orange

What is the cost to upgrade to this color?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 22 April 2017, 14:17:33
$75, same as for the other premium color upgrades
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: supamesican on Sat, 22 April 2017, 16:32:52
Yep horizontal ones are the only ones used on an F62/F77 unless you use the international/ISO enter.

Awesome, got them ordered. :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Kavik on Sun, 23 April 2017, 08:00:23
True red and international orange both look really awesome, but I think I'll like the more traditional industrial and black colors I ordered more in the long run. I hope enough people order them that I eventually get to see some cool pictures at least. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: dante on Sun, 23 April 2017, 10:48:55
Ellipse, I was just at a vintage computer show this weekend and while I wasn't interested in this project before I may be now.

My biggest issue with buying in isn't the delays but the fact that nobody (as far as I know) has seen any of the prototypes.  I know you are quite proud to have been featured in at least a couple articles as well as passing on information such as "We are now up to $xxx,xxx in sales!" but someone credible really needs to see the prototypes at this point in time.

In fact for someone with the financial resources that you must possess - given that no fundraiser was used - I'm very surprised you haven't attended one of the keyboard shows to show off the prototypes.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 23 April 2017, 12:54:42
dante I was trying to put together a meetup in Manhattan but there was little to no interest.  That offer is still open.  I should be getting the finalized first-run parts in a couple weeks if anyone's interested.

In the mean time I posted videos with teardowns and typing tests so you can see and hear the keyboards in operation (these were posted last year and earlier this year).  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsi-1PcnCT3hw_RwcFzBnuw

If anyone knows of any upcoming Manhattan tech meetups where it would be appropriate, please let me know.  Maybe I can get out to the San Fran area in the coming months as well?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Sun, 23 April 2017, 13:00:38
dante I was trying to put together a meetup in Manhattan but there was little to no interest.  That offer is still open.  I should be getting the finalized first-run parts in a couple weeks if anyone's interested.

In the mean time I posted videos with teardowns and typing tests so you can see and hear the keyboards in operation (these were posted last year and earlier this year).  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsi-1PcnCT3hw_RwcFzBnuw

If anyone knows of any upcoming Manhattan tech meetups where it would be appropriate, please let me know.  Maybe I can get out to the San Fran area in the coming months as well?

There is a keycon meetup in June in Philly. It would be great to see the boards there as there will be a lot of people attending. Details can be found here https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=87017.0
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 23 April 2017, 22:03:12
How many people usually attend those meetups?  If some of the attendees are part of the project then I'd think of going.

The factory is still finalizing the keys and putting on the powdercoating for the top inner assembly plates.  They are fine-tuning the key molds to make sure the keys are made to spec.

Here are some photos of the machines that bend the PCBs (IBM used to bend the Model F PCBs).  The secret is to heat the PCBs gently and evenly first (see the first two photos of the heater) and then force a bend of the board to the radius I specified to the factory.  These machines and tooling were not cheap!

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Sun, 23 April 2017, 22:07:58
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but getting to see the proto boards would certainly convince me to join as I've been waiting for reviews before ordering.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: smt on Sun, 23 April 2017, 23:46:13
I'll be going, and I've got a F77 order already placed (although it's very close to the end of the queue).

It would be great to experience the prototypes in person, two months from now.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: user 18 on Mon, 24 April 2017, 13:19:07
I have also been waiting to hear from reviewers before ordering, unfortunately I won't be able to attend keycon myself.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 28 April 2017, 19:22:34
Low stock notice on premium original style case colors:  If you are looking for a True Red Pantone 19-1664 or Silver Gray Pantone 14-5002 TPX Silver case please order one soon!  I am almost completely out of the custom original style powdercoated case colors - more will not be made in the final round so that will be it for the project.  First come, first served with the cases.  A custom color is $75 extra.  You can order a case separately if you'd like to add on to your order or just order the case for now and order your keyboard later.

Low stock notice on Compact Case early bird round keyboards: we are down to the last 4 compact F77 and the last 11 compact F62 keyboards.  Knowing rate they have been ordered, I recommend ordering one in the coming weeks if you want to be a part of the early bird round.

Also an interesting note and request:  The first few months' of orders had a greater proportion of black powdercoated case orders and F62 original case orders compared to all orders since then (more other colors and F77 orders proportionately).  This means for the early bird round I am unexpectedly likely to run out of Industrial Gray/Off-White Beige original case F77s before I run out of the others.  If anyone wants to change their case from another color to black or from F77 to F62 please let me know :)  This way we can keep the early round open a little longer "while supplies last."

HHKB style vs. regular style right shift:  the breakdown so far is 60% in favor of HHKB style split right shift on the F62s and 40% in favor of HHKB style split right shift on the F77s.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: NathanA on Sat, 29 April 2017, 08:44:54
Any chance you can post a side-by-side of Industrial Gray vs. Silver Gray?

Also, do you have any pictures of the anodized compact cases yet?  Really curious to see the black.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 29 April 2017, 12:17:57
Yes here are photos of all the cases: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/5m6010/photos_working_compact_case_f62f77_keyboard/

See photos 1, 4, 5, and 6 for the black and regular gray hard anodized cases - just the bottom pieces from the photos are hard anodized - the keyboards from the photos were not yet anodized.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Pete on Sat, 29 April 2017, 18:27:56
... If you are looking for a True Red, Pantone 19-1664 or Silver Gray Pantone 14-5002 TPX Silver case ...

Maybe its the comma between True Red and Pantone 19-1664, but is that the same colour?



Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Pete on Sat, 29 April 2017, 18:31:10
Here are some photos of the machines that bend the PCBs (IBM used to bend the Model F PCBs).  The secret is to heat the PCBs gently and evenly first (see the first two photos of the heater) and then force a bend of the board to the radius I specified to the factory. 
...

Wow, I never realized the PCBs had to be bent. I hope they get the bend to within the necessary tolerances without any issues.

(BTW: I have a KB on order.)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 29 April 2017, 19:58:47
Pete - comma removed and yes I will not be accepting out of tolerance parts.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Sun, 30 April 2017, 20:47:22
Pete - comma removed and yes I will not be accepting out of tolerance parts.

There you go people, our Ellipse is a PERFECTIONIST.
 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 06 May 2017, 15:35:26
The factory is still working on adjusting the key molds.  In the mean time, all the other first run parts appear to be finished!  I am expecting them to ship everything out except the keys in the coming days.

When these first-run parts arrive I will examine each part and if it is all good, production will start on the remaining parts!  (Top/bottom inner assemblies, springs, hard anodized compact cases, keys, boxes, and inner/outside foam).

The factory expects production and assembly to take 2-3 months, and then these will all ship from China to me for final testing and shipping (generally) in sequence of when you placed your order.

Here are the first run compact cases - please note that these colors are not accurate and are not representative of what anyone will get:
[attachimg=1]

Here is the new batch of finished springs:
[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: 3K on Sat, 06 May 2017, 16:48:05
The cases look really nice!
But am I wrong or were the cases supposed to be with a shiny finish? Like ... not dull, like the original case. Or will this finish be added in the later run?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 06 May 2017, 17:21:33
3K the compact cases are a standard hard anodized finish which has some reflectivity but they will not be bright dipped.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ibakey on Thu, 11 May 2017, 00:05:01
I am beyond tempteddd. helppppppp
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Guupti on Thu, 11 May 2017, 03:51:06
Thinking of joining the final production round. Thoughts on compact vs original case? Love the idea of an all metal case and like the modern look but I think I read the original was a bit heavier and obviously more unique. Any personal options after using both Ellipse?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Kavik on Thu, 11 May 2017, 07:54:00
Thinking of joining the final production round. Thoughts on compact vs original case? Love the idea of an all metal case and like the modern look but I think I read the original was a bit heavier and obviously more unique. Any personal options after using both Ellipse?

My thought: if you have to get just one, get the original case. The design is more unique, it's heavier, it's powder coated (more textured), and it's made of friggin' zinc! The compact case look nice, but it's very similar to a lot of other projects, and it's anodized aluminum. For the record, I ordered both, so I'm eager to see which one I like more after experiencing them. Ellipse may have some more insight on how the cases affect the key feel and sound of the board.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 11 May 2017, 21:35:44
My thought: if you have to get just one, get the original case. The design is more unique, it's heavier, it's powder coated (more textured), and it's made of friggin' zinc!

Kavik's right.

This is the PRIME directive, concerning all Model-F fanboys.  Once you use this keyboard you suddenly become a crazed Zealot joining thousands of others worldwide, in worshiping this type of technology.

The Model-F is truly unique, 100% designed by engineers who once cared about QUALITY, ENDURANCE and above all else the strength of the 'IBM' name.  These are criteria that hold a special resonance upon all of us here in this Group Buy, because we believe in this truly unique keyboard.

This whole process is exactly like the Legend of King Arthur, the sword upon which he gripped with his own hands to pull out of the stone.  Here is the mighty Excalibur, the sword that proclaimed great strength and leadership upon all mortals, on Earth.  Ellipse is the almighty "Merlin" who is the one that guides and advises 'Arthur' all F77 buyers, throughout his reign as Monarch.

This Model-F keyboard is exactly like "Excalibur" a mighty symbol of supreme power and immense strength.  Anyone who receives the F77 shall indeed become as powerful as Arthur because you shall inherit all that responsibility and potential, bestowed upon you by our very own Ellipse  8) .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 11 May 2017, 21:40:54
Yes I agree with Kavik and Elrick - go for the original case if you can!  Though both look great in person.

All the first run parts (except keys) are being sent tomorrow by DHL Express!  They should arrive by mid-week and then I can start the final QC testing for all parts.  I have extra batteries for my micrometer!  Keys are expected to be mailed by the end of next week.  They are working on the final adjustments of the key molds.

Here are the photos of the cases and outside foam being mailed.  The other inner parts are also being mailed so in effect I will be doing the assembly and testing from all newly received parts.

Again please disregard any and all colors and lighting in these photos as they are not accurate or representative of what you will get.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Kavik on Fri, 12 May 2017, 08:02:34
Yes I agree with Kavik and Elrick - go for the original case if you can!  Though both look great in person.

All the first run parts (except keys) are being sent tomorrow by DHL Express!  They should arrive by mid-week and then I can start the final QC testing for all parts.  I have extra batteries for my micrometer!  Keys are expected to be mailed by the end of next week.  They are working on the final adjustments of the key molds.

Here are the photos of the cases and outside foam being mailed.  The other inner parts are also being mailed so in effect I will be doing the assembly and testing from all newly received parts.

Again please disregard any and all colors and lighting in these photos as they are not accurate or representative of what you will get.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Wow, those look incredible! I'm glad the final run parts are finally making their way to you for QC. That is exciting!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 12 May 2017, 18:41:12
Yep Kavik these shipped today and are making their way over here as we speak.

I was thinking of attending the Philadelphia keycon at Villanova on 6/24 and bringing these final first run keyboards. Anyone planning on attending?

https://geekhack.org/index.php?board=195.0
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Fri, 12 May 2017, 19:13:55
Yep Kavik these shipped today and are making their way over here as we speak.

I was thinking of attending the Philadelphia keycon at Villanova on 6/24 and bringing these final first run keyboards. Anyone planning on attending?

https://geekhack.org/index.php?board=195.0

I will be.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: smt on Sun, 14 May 2017, 09:39:54
I was thinking of attending the Philadelphia keycon at Villanova on 6/24 and bringing these final first run keyboards. Anyone planning on attending?

I plan to be there. It would be an honor to meet you and see these boards in person.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Pete on Sun, 14 May 2017, 16:04:29

Here are the photos of the cases ...

Again please disregard any and all colors and lighting in these photos as they are not accurate or representative of what you will get...


Disregarding your disclaimer on the colors, the red really does look amazing. I'm tempted to order another keyboard so I can have a red case as well.
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: kawasaki161 on Wed, 17 May 2017, 06:59:23
I bought a Model M to see if BS is something for me... well, I'm now excited about these. I'll jump in as soon as the first third party reviews from the early bird round come in. :thumb:

Now, F62 or F77? Compact or classic? Decisions, decisions, decisions....
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 17 May 2017, 18:42:14
My personal preference is for the original off-white/beige color, F77 version with num pad style right side block.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 18 May 2017, 21:08:09
Hey ellipse, i pmd you about a color change  :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 18 May 2017, 21:40:15
My personal preference is for the original off-white/beige color, F77 version with num pad style right side block.

Same here, except for the colour in which I chose the traditional Industrial Grey  :thumb: .

The Model-F77 is the standard to which all past and future Model-Fs shall try to live up to.  Just glad you have decided to make it a reality for the majority of us that love the Model-F feel, something truly spiritual when used in front of any PC.

Just glad that when the world is falling apart and the yanks go insane about the Russians, we have Ellipse delivering to us a cherished reminder of what an over-engineered keyboard should be.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 18 May 2017, 21:45:14
updated reececonrad - sorry for the delay!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 18 May 2017, 21:47:34
updated reececonrad - sorry for the delay!

Just got the email.  Thanks, sir. I was on the fence still with the color choice, but when you mentioned you preferred off white it sealed the deal!   :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: NathanA on Sun, 21 May 2017, 21:25:41
Please tell me that the space bar is going to have a nice "thock" quality to its sound like the F XT's does.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_qA5OZFJ1I&t=443s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_qA5OZFJ1I&t=443s)

-- Nathan
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sun, 21 May 2017, 22:00:30
The XT space bar had a weird Rube Goldberg contraption underneath. The 4704 and F-122 space bars were much more straightforward: a single switch with a wire stabilizer. So it won't sound like an XT, but more like the rest of the keys.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 22 May 2017, 22:44:02
I am typing on a fully assembled new prototype F62!

Everything is working very well so far. The powdercoated die cast zinc cases are excellent quality. It was well worth the couple extra months to get the paint job right. The off-white/beige color is almost an exact match to the 1988 F107 case I mailed them as the reference. The texture is the same bumpy, mostly matte but slightly reflective powdercoating as the original. The True Red and Black cases look good. In the next week or two they will mail the Industrial cases.

The capacitive PCBs, controller PCBs, inner foam, and outside foam are all good. Every PCB is being grounded in two spots to the bottom inner assembly with 6-32 screws to eliminate the risk of stray capacitive signals.

There were a number of issues that I have told the factory to work on and prioritize for completion as soon as possible. Some notes:

The top inner assembly parts are very good but slightly off spec. The TIA curve is about 1mm off from the ideal. My XT sample has a perfect curve that matches my CAD files exactly so I have asked the factory to remake the samples to this standard. The perfect curve helps ensure a more even pressure on the barrels between the top and bottom inner assembly. The wrong curve can result in wiggly barrels and clicks that are not as sharp so it is important that they get it right. To correct this issue they are going to adjust their tooling and mail corrected parts ASAP.

The compact cases had some issues with the color of the hard anodizing being slightly off. They are adding another couple screws on the bottom to further secure the case.

The product boxes were 2.5mm thickness instead of the 5.0mm I had specified so those were rejected, though the box artwork is well-printed.

Finally the springs are very close to the originals but I want to see a few more spring samples with different materials before the springs go into production.

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: SixtyLife on Mon, 22 May 2017, 22:47:44
I am typing on a fully assembled new prototype F62!

Everything is working very well so far. The powdercoated die cast zinc cases are excellent quality. It was well worth the couple extra months to get the paint job right. The off-white/beige color is almost an exact match to the 1988 F107 case I mailed them as the reference. The texture is the same bumpy, mostly matte but slightly reflective powdercoating as the original. The True Red and Black cases look good. In the next week or two they will mail the Industrial cases.

The capacitive PCBs, controller PCBs, inner foam, and outside foam are all good. Every PCB is being grounded in two spots to the case with 6-32 screws to eliminate the risk of stray capacitive signals.

There were a number of issues that I have told the factory to work on and prioritize for completion as soon as possible. Some notes:

The top inner assembly parts are very good but slightly off spec. The TIA curve is about 1mm off from the ideal. My XT sample has a perfect curve that matches my CAD files exactly so I have asked the factory to remake the samples to this standard. The perfect curve helps ensure a more even pressure on the barrels between the top and bottom inner assembly. The wrong curve can result in wiggly barrels and clicks that are not as sharp so it is important that they get it right. To correct this issue they are going to adjust their tooling and mail corrected parts ASAP.

The compact cases had some issues with the color of the hard anodizing being slightly off. They are adding another couple screws on the bottom to further secure the case.

The product boxes were 2.5mm thickness instead of the 5.0mm I had specified so those were rejected, though the box artwork is well-printed.

Finally the springs are very close to the originals but I want to see a few more spring samples with different materials before the springs go into production.

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
wow.. phenomenal job so far ellipse!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Kavik on Mon, 22 May 2017, 22:58:34
Thanks for the update! It's good to see things progressing along. I can't wait to see the industrial gray and compact cases when those are ready.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 22 May 2017, 23:13:07
Yep it's progressing - definitely slower than their original expected timeline.  The months extra for the key molds was frustrating earlier this year but they are expecting to finish up the mold corrections in the next week or so.

The springs have improved sound but the top inner assembly needs to be re-made and accurately curved before the Model F sound is at its sharpest. Currently it's well within the range of the original Model F's that have gone through my refurbishings over the years.

We are getting there - thanks to everyone for their patience with the factory delays.

The feel is very comfortable to type on. Another buckling spring fan in my family hit 112 WPM on 10fastfingers with this first-run F62! You can really notice the difference with new springs that have not been worn out and oxidized after 30 years.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Tue, 23 May 2017, 02:09:47
Yep it's progressing - definitely slower than their original expected timeline.  The months extra for the key molds was frustrating earlier this year but they are expecting to finish up the mold corrections in the next week or so.

The springs have improved sound but the top inner assembly needs to be re-made and accurately curved before the Model F sound is at its sharpest. Currently it's well within the range of the original Model F's that have gone through my refurbishings over the years.

We are getting there - thanks to everyone for their patience with the factory delays.

The feel is very comfortable to type on. Another buckling spring fan in my family hit 112 WPM on 10fastfingers with this first-run F62! You can really notice the difference with new springs that have not been worn out and oxidized after 30 years.

So exciting, thanks for the detailed updates. The cases look so good I am tempted to get an extra one in another colour!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: NathanA on Tue, 23 May 2017, 03:32:21
The XT space bar had a weird Rube Goldberg contraption underneath. The 4704 and F-122 space bars were much more straightforward: a single switch with a wire stabilizer. So it won't sound like an XT, but more like the rest of the keys.

I know that I'm still going to love this keyboard, but that still has to be the saddest news I've heard so far...

Somebody please tell me there is a straightforward way to mod a 4704 spacebar so that it sounds and responds like an F XT. :)

-- Nathan
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Tue, 23 May 2017, 21:15:06
We are getting there - thanks to everyone for their patience with the factory delays.

If it all means that everyone of us who handed over our money months ago, get a PERFECT Model-F series in our hands, then it's all worth it  :thumb: .

We all know making a Model-F from scratch isn't easy hence why NO one over the years have done it, you are the very first person to accomplish this major achievement.  That alone places you into the stratosphere of people who have created something unique during 2016 and 2017.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 27 May 2017, 20:25:48
We passed $235,000 in orders this week!

Update on the top inner assembly cases - the factory has agreed to change over to a different tooling setup to make top inner assembly parts that are accurate in their bend and size.  They need a few weeks for setup and to send the corrected samples. 

This is an important step to make sure the Brand New Model F keyboards sound as good as the best Model F keyboards in my collection, not just the 50th percentile Model F.  The best ones have accurate top inner assembly curves like the XT example in one of my recent posts.  The middle row should be as clicky as the other rows after the corrected cases arrive.

In the mean time I expect the final remaining parts to start going into production - we will not be waiting for these top inner assembly parts to be ready before wrapping up production on the other items.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: dotcom on Sun, 28 May 2017, 09:39:29
Thanks so much for putting on this GB as well as providing continuous and detailed updates on the project. I recently placed an order for an F77, and I'm super stoked!

I did have a fairly minor change request to my order--I sent you an email with the details. I also have some questions regarding one of vintage keyboard listing on your website I hope to discuss in detail with you soon.

Thanks again for making this happen. I'm very happy and proud to be a part of this incredible project.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 28 May 2017, 11:25:19
Thanks dotcom - just responded - sorry for the delay.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 28 May 2017, 13:11:15
Typing on the ultra compact F62 prototype!  Here are the first photos from the assembled compact F62:
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: dotcom on Sun, 28 May 2017, 19:30:57
Currently considering ordering an F62, but I'm trying to figure out how I would handle the lack of dedicated cursor keys if I did get one. Would anyone be willing to share their ideas on mapping cursor key functionality for the F62?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Kavik on Sun, 28 May 2017, 19:36:08
Typing on the ultra compact F62 prototype!  Here are the first photos from the assembled compact F62:
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
:eek: :eek: :eek:

Wow, good thing I ordered an extra black ultra compact case and black keyset for my F77!  :cool:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 28 May 2017, 20:53:25
dotcom I suggest the standard HHKB style mapping for the F62, which will be the expected default configuration (you can change this yourself using the xwhatsit GUI).  http://elitekeyboards.com/proddata/doc/hhkbp2_basic_layout.png
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: mrduul on Mon, 29 May 2017, 05:00:13
Very excited!!!!  :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: dante on Mon, 29 May 2017, 13:06:33
Ellipse you may want to get a plane ticket and visit the line as this is being built.

XMIT got blind sided with terrible QC on his boards.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 29 May 2017, 13:29:11
dante I do expect to stop by the factory at some point.  I will not accept any parts that do not pass my quality standards.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 29 May 2017, 14:38:34
Typing on the ultra compact F77 prototype!  Here are the first photos from the assembled compact F77:
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 29 May 2017, 20:33:11
Typing on the ultra compact F77 prototype!  Here are the first photos from the assembled compact F77:
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Ohhh FVCK ME, that is the MOST beautiful picture yet of a Model-F inside an aluminium case  :o :o :o .

Dare I say it here, that it looks like some high end Korean Custom Keyboard........
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: supamesican on Mon, 29 May 2017, 21:31:28
Holy crap... That f77 is so beautiful... My hype is growing.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Tue, 30 May 2017, 00:26:06
Holy crap... That f77 is so beautiful... My hype is growing.

Oh YES, it is  8) .

Ellipse knows how much flange to apply and there is heaps around this one and considering my insane love for extra flange, this keyboard design is the one to own.

Think even the Koreans would be proud of this one.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: tron on Tue, 30 May 2017, 17:32:35
Typing on the ultra compact F62 prototype!  Here are the first photos from the assembled compact F62:
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Is it possible to buy a second ultra compact case in black and request the default case color and caps be changed? I purchased a grey ultra compact with printed caps installed by default and black caps as a side order, however, I was hoping I could buy a second black case and change the default to black case and black caps with the grey case and printed caps as the side order.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: pixelpusher on Tue, 30 May 2017, 22:20:38
Was there an option for keycap layout?  I would prefer to NOT have a stepped caps, but I like the stepped right shift.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 31 May 2017, 17:33:42
Yes tron, feel free to place another order for the case and include a note on your order updates.

reececonrad yes you can configure layouts when placing your order by using the drop down menus.  No one will be getting stepped caps (though you can order them from Unicomp or others).
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Wed, 31 May 2017, 20:54:22
Typing on the ultra compact F62 prototype!  Here are the first photos from the assembled compact F62:
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
I have made the right choice on all black!!!

Godspeed.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: MaNiFeX on Wed, 31 May 2017, 23:44:37
Typing on the ultra compact F77 prototype!  Here are the first photos from the assembled compact F77:
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Holy ****.  That's beautiful.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Thu, 01 June 2017, 03:16:58
Typing on the ultra compact F62 prototype!  Here are the first photos from the assembled compact F62:
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
I have made the right choice on all black!!!

Godspeed.

Yeah me too :) Definitely prefer the original F62 case but the F77 in the compact case is looking good!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Thu, 01 June 2017, 20:00:03
Typing on the ultra compact F62 prototype!  Here are the first photos from the assembled compact F62:
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
I have made the right choice on all black!!!

Godspeed.

Yeah me too :) Definitely prefer the original F62 case but the F77 in the compact case is looking good!
Oh for sure, Classic case is the only case in my mind!!!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: mrduul on Fri, 02 June 2017, 14:34:30
Amazing, great work dude.  :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 03 June 2017, 15:12:21
Here is the latest project update blog post - photos and descriptions of each Model F part:  "What makes up a Model F Keyboard? + Detailed production status of each part"

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/blog/

Thanks mrduul!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 04 June 2017, 18:39:50
The factory will be preparing for assembly in the coming months.  Here is the current breakdown of the different options everyone has chosen so far.  We passed $245,000 last week - 533 Brand New Model F keyboards have been ordered.

Thanks to the wide variety of customizations, the factory will be assembling over 150 variations of layouts, keys, and case colors.  I will ask them to put a post it or other paper on the box to number each variation so I can examine and ship each one in sequence of serial number. 

The F77 has unexpectedly taken over to become the more popular keyboard compared to the F62. 

We are running low on F77 early bird cases - if anyone wants to switch to F62 or F77 Black it would be appreciated!

New Production Keyboards:
F77   260
F62   191
Compact F77   44
Compact F62   38
Grand Total   533

Layouts:
ANSI Enter 239
HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and Split Backspace   137
HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and regular 2-unit wide backspace   101
ISO (please note which layout you want)   38
HHKB split right shift only, everything else ANSI Enter   7

Selected items:
Extra Flipper and Spring   1842
Extra Barrel   1404
4 Extra bumpers 149
Extra Plastic Stabilizer Insert for keys   147
Unprinted 1U key   89
Industrial SSK Blue Keys   84
Front-printed keys F1, etc.   77
FirstAidKit   66
Extra steel spacebar tabs (pair)   49
Extra inner foam (F62, F77, F62 split shift, F77 split shift, F107, F122)   47
Extra Set of Brand New Production XT-quality one-piece keys   45
HHKB 6 Key Set  27
Extra F77 Case   25
Apple/Mac Command-Option Keys   25
Extra F62 Case - 'Kishsaver"   23
Clear relegendable cap+squared edge stem (original IBM)   11
Extra PCB   5
Original IBM Model M keycap set (limited QTY avail.)   5
Extra top inner assembly   3

Case Orders, Excl. Extra Cases
F77   
Color: Industrial Gray   142
Color: Off-White/Beige   75
Color: Black   37
Color: Silver Gray   3
Color: True Red   3

F62   
Color: Off-White/Beige   96
Color: Industrial Gray   51
Color: Black   36
Color: True Red   7
Color: Silver Gray   1

Compact F77   
Color: Black   31
Color: Gray   13

Compact F62   
Color: Gray   19
Color: Black   19

Key Sets, Excl. Extra Sets
Keys: Regular printed key set (US/ANSI layout)   346
Keys: Black unprinted keys   54
Keys: Regular color blank keys 54
Keys: International layout 37
Keys: Use your own keys   29

Extra Key Sets
Full Base Key Set?: 103 Key Set with 6 Stabilizer Inserts:
Blank or Printed Base Set?: Printed (Pearl/Pebble Color)   19
Blank or Printed Base Set?: Blank Unprinted (Black Color)   12
Blank or Printed Base Set?: Blank (Pearl/Pebble Color)   5
Blank or Printed Base Set?: Printed (Blue Color)   1
Blank or Printed Base Set?: Printed   1
Full Base Key Set?: 103 Key Set with 6 Stabilizer Inserts Total   38

F77 Right Side Block   
Print/ScrLock/Pause/Ins/Del etc. keys, cursor keys   181
0-9 and cursor keys   87
Unconfigured default   36

Extra Bumper Type
Bumper type: 2 Large rubber bumpers (left of photo) with screw and nut plus 2 dome (middle of photo)   48
Bumper type: 2 medium bumpers with threaded stud (second photo) + 2 other pictured bumpers (please specify in the notes)   29
Bumper type: 4 square   24
Bumper type: 4 dome (middle of photo)   13
Bumper type: 2 dome (middle of photo) + 2 small cylindrical (bottom right)   13
Bumper type: 2 dome + 2 square   9
Bumper type: 2 square (top right)+2 small cylindrical (bottom right)   9
Bumper type: 4 Cork   3
Bumper type: 2 medium bumpers with threaded stud (second photo) + 2 cylindrical bumpers   1
Grand Total   149
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Atredl on Sun, 04 June 2017, 18:44:44
I love reading stats
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Kavik on Sun, 04 June 2017, 23:34:53
Ellipse,

Does the HHKB split right shift with fn key require a different PCB and barrel plate? I ordered the standard ANSI layout F77 and an extra set of black blank keys with additional printed pebble HHKB 6 key set. It's been a while since I ordered, so I'm not entirely sure what my intention was, but I think I was under the impression that I could switch between the default ANSI and HHKB split right shift layouts with a simple key swap. If that's not the case, I think I need to modify my order a bit.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 05 June 2017, 06:28:55
You can switch between the two on one pcb.  The difference is when switching to hhkb when you have the standard pcb for ansi/iso, the 1U key and 1.75U key in the right shift area are switched compared to the hhkb pcb, so you get 1U on the left side of the right shift area and 1.75U on the right side.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: joey on Mon, 05 June 2017, 06:32:36
Ellipse: Any chance you can confirm in a PM what board I'm getting? Just want to make sure what I think I'm getting is what you think I'm getting!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: axtran on Mon, 05 June 2017, 07:25:53
Could you confirm my order via PM as well? That compact case is so, so beautiful!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: a_ak57 on Mon, 05 June 2017, 08:14:46
dotcom I suggest the standard HHKB style mapping for the F62, which will be the expected default configuration (you can change this yourself using the xwhatsit GUI).  http://elitekeyboards.com/proddata/doc/hhkbp2_basic_layout.png

Just to clarify, will these actually be shipping with the HHKB arrows and such mapped on the function layer or just the F-key row?


Also regarding the order stats, interesting to see that the industrial gray is considerably more prominent with the F77 and same with beige with the F62.  Is that a historical accuracy thing and those were the more common colors for each?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Kavik on Mon, 05 June 2017, 15:37:14
You can switch between the two on one pcb.  The difference is when switching to hhkb when you have the standard pcb for ansi/iso, the 1U key and 1.75U key in the right shift area are switched compared to the hhkb pcb, so you get 1U on the left side of the right shift area and 1.75U on the right side.

Ok, that makes sense, especially after looking at the barrel positions on a Model M. I think I'll keep my order how it is since I'll probably want the default layout, but the extra caps will give me the flexibility of adding another key if I want to try it albeit in a transposed position. Thank you for the response!

Also, thank you for the blog post update and updated order numbers. Very interesting read.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 05 June 2017, 16:55:27
joey and axtran - I sent you your order emails noting what you are getting.

ak57 there will be no secondary legends on the key sides but yes arrows and such will all be mapped in the firmware by default (you can change this in the configuration software).  I believe seeing the F77 case in Industrial Gray on the web site photos and the F62 in Beige encouraged those choices more than others.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: str8away on Mon, 05 June 2017, 17:46:07
You can switch between the two on one pcb.  The difference is when switching to hhkb when you have the standard pcb for ansi/iso, the 1U key and 1.75U key in the right shift area are switched compared to the hhkb pcb, so you get 1U on the left side of the right shift area and 1.75U on the right side.

Can you switch between the two with the hhkb style pcb?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 05 June 2017, 17:56:55
Yes you can have the HHKB or ANSI arrangement on the hhkb style PCB as well.  If interested please select HHKB at checkout and then send me a note for "HHKB split right shift only, everything else ANSI Enter"
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: str8away on Mon, 05 June 2017, 18:03:53
Yes you can have the HHKB or ANSI arrangement on the hhkb style PCB as well.  If interested please select HHKB at checkout and then send me a note for "HHKB split right shift only, everything else ANSI Enter"

So is there a different 2.75 right shift for the hhkb pcb? Won't the regular shift's stems/posts be in the wrong place or am I overthinking this?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 05 June 2017, 18:20:11
Same key but the right shift's two pads are in slightly different places on the standard vs. HHKB PCB.  The standard PCB allows for 1U, 1.75U or 2.75U in the right shift, while the HHKB pcb allows only 1.75U, 1U in that location.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: str8away on Mon, 05 June 2017, 18:27:46
Same key but the right shift's two pads are in slightly different places on the standard vs. HHKB PCB.  The standard PCB allows for 1U, 1.75U or 2.75U in the right shift, while the HHKB pcb allows only 1.75U, 1U in that location.

Yep ok that's what I thought.

So you can only use the 2.75U right shift on the regular pcb. With the HHKB pcb you're stuck with the 1.75U and 1U layout.

Thanks for the clarification.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 06 June 2017, 17:55:35
Yep - an alternative is to order an extra regular PCB/top inner assembly/inner foam so that you can switch between HHKB style split and regular split.  A couple people are doing this.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 06 June 2017, 18:01:05
Would anyone be interested in writing a generic Model F manual?  For both the original keyboards as well as the reproductions.  It would help buckling spring owners with a central place to learn key re-seating, disassembly, spring replacement, changing the layout, etc.?

I was thinking it could be written in the old formatting/layout like the manuals of the 80s/90s, maybe with some old-style illustrations/line art/product photos?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: str8away on Tue, 06 June 2017, 18:08:48
Yep - an alternative is to order an extra regular PCB/top inner assembly/inner foam so that you can switch between HHKB style split and regular split.  A couple people are doing this.


Hmmm interesting how much is that?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 06 June 2017, 18:34:45
$119 total I believe.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Tue, 06 June 2017, 19:34:24
Yep - an alternative is to order an extra regular PCB/top inner assembly/inner foam so that you can switch between HHKB style split and regular split.  A couple people are doing this.


Hmmm interesting how much is that?
This is what I went with, well worth the money seeing as you may not be able to find one in the future.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Kavik on Tue, 06 June 2017, 22:03:27
Yep - an alternative is to order an extra regular PCB/top inner assembly/inner foam so that you can switch between HHKB style split and regular split.  A couple people are doing this.


Hmmm interesting how much is that?
This is what I went with, well worth the money seeing as you may not be able to find one in the future.

It's this kind of thinking that's caused me to spend $602 on this GB already  :'( . I don't know if I can bear anymore at the moment. If I need anything else, I think I'll wait until the second round to order it once I've had time to play with it and decide.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: axtran on Tue, 06 June 2017, 23:46:34
Thanks so much for the order update, Ellipse! Is there any way to convert my order to black on black compact case with all black caps? Should I PM you instead?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: NathanA on Tue, 06 June 2017, 23:58:26
Yes you can have the HHKB or ANSI arrangement on the hhkb style PCB as well.  If interested please select HHKB at checkout and then send me a note for "HHKB split right shift only, everything else ANSI Enter"

Wait, now I'm confused.  Isn't this arrangement (HHKB split right shift, everything else ANSI Enter) exactly what is intended by the "HHKB split right shift and regular 2U-wide Backspace" option on the order form?  At least that's what I thought I was getting when I picked that option.  Why would someone need to send you a note for this arrangement?

-- Nathan
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Mr_BeastQuake on Wed, 07 June 2017, 00:20:44
Yes you can have the HHKB or ANSI arrangement on the hhkb style PCB as well.  If interested please select HHKB at checkout and then send me a note for "HHKB split right shift only, everything else ANSI Enter"

Wait, now I'm confused.  Isn't this arrangement (HHKB split right shift, everything else ANSI Enter) exactly what is intended by the "HHKB split right shift and regular 2U-wide Backspace" option on the order form?  At least that's what I thought I was getting when I picked that option.  Why would someone need to send you a note for this arrangement?

-- Nathan

In a similar vein, I was hoping for a layout similar to my Black Bird for the split right shift, split backspace, ANSI enter. Shown here: http://imgur.com/a/Q79Ij

This is achieved by just selecting split right shift and split backspace. Maintaining an ANSI enter right?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: NathanA on Wed, 07 June 2017, 03:07:19
Yes you can have the HHKB or ANSI arrangement on the hhkb style PCB as well.  If interested please select HHKB at checkout and then send me a note for "HHKB split right shift only, everything else ANSI Enter"

Wait, now I'm confused.  Isn't this arrangement (HHKB split right shift, everything else ANSI Enter) exactly what is intended by the "HHKB split right shift and regular 2U-wide Backspace" option on the order form?  At least that's what I thought I was getting when I picked that option.  Why would someone need to send you a note for this arrangement?

-- Nathan

Okay never mind; just saw your (Ellipse's) response on the other forum to somebody asking essentially the same question. :)

So difference just comes down to placement of left Ctrl and CapsLock?  When ordering "HHKB split shift + 2U Backspace" with a full non-blank keyset (which I assume puts Ctrl where CL normally goes on ANSI layout and vice-versa), you also ship the regular ANSI keys anyway right?

I'll probably end up using "everything else ANSI" layout, but if the other keys are included anyway then no sense in having you waste time changing my order, presuming the controller is easy enough to reprogram (never used this particular controller, but the impression I get is that it's not that hard to change/re-map stuff).

-- Nathan
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 07 June 2017, 23:56:40
Yes the controllers are easy to program with xwhatsit's GUI and everyone who orders HHKB style gets the original style keys as well so they can switch Ctrl and Shift, etc.

Yes I think that would be the options to pick for a similar layout Mr_BeastQuake

Yes axtran feel free to PM me for changes. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 08 June 2017, 22:03:50
Regarding the request to write a Model F generic manual (including repairs, setup, xwhatsit adjustments) in the old style design and formatting, I also like the style of the Keytronic 3270 compatible keyboard manuals (below).

Does anyone want to change their F77 case color to Black, Silver Gray, or True Red?  I would appreciate it!  Both the Industrial Gray and Off-White/Beige F77 options have proven far more popular than I had expected and we are running low on stock.

We are also running very low on Ultra Compact Keyboards and might run out in a month or two for the early bird round - if you wanted a compact keyboard in the early bird round please reserve one soon!
[attachimg=1]

Below I am reposting links to some Model F manuals posted by segacontroller on DT:
A quick search yielded this from the XT.

http://www.retroarchive.org/dos/docs/ibm5160techref.pdf

Keyboard starts on 1-65 (PDF page 78). Not too robust, but I think this would be the style of the original manual?

**

Here is the technical reference guide for the IB 5155 which has much more information.

http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/manuals/IBM_5155_5160_Technical_Reference_6280089_MAR86.pdf

Key Board section is section 4, and starts on PDF page 97.

**

Also found this product picture from the model M. Would this be the style you are looking for?
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-MmCpjSMMNFU/UcsAAcS8d-I/AAAAAAAAADE/O7TXRePBKjk/w2048-h1215/1986_modelm_promo.jpg
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Kavik on Fri, 09 June 2017, 01:03:46
I may be interested in helping out with the manual. I write up detailed recreation steps for testing software bugs often at work, and I had a strong language background in the past (writing papers for various classes as well as studying German and French in college and high school). My attention to detail and affinity for precise grammar would be useful, I think. The problem is I've never dealt with the xwhatsit controller or GUI, so my subject matter knowledge is lacking.

Regarding the colors, I think I am set on industrial gray, but do you have a side-by-side comparison of the silver gray and industrial gray? I can't quite picture the difference. Also, do you have any photos of a fully assembled true red or orange keyboard? Seeing the other examples might sway me from industrial gray.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Fri, 09 June 2017, 04:02:10
Regarding the colors, I think I am set on industrial gray, but do you have a side-by-side comparison of the silver gray and industrial gray? I can't quite picture the difference. Also, do you have any photos of a fully assembled true red or orange keyboard? Seeing the other examples might sway me from industrial gray.

I paid for an Industrial Gray model simply because it is darker, compared to Silver Gray.

Plus Industrial Gray is the first ever model colour used along with IBM Beige, for these type of keyboards.  If you want old time precision always go full Retro, that way strangers may think you actually own an original Model-F keyboard built years ago  :thumb: .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Kavik on Fri, 09 June 2017, 07:27:12
Regarding the colors, I think I am set on industrial gray, but do you have a side-by-side comparison of the silver gray and industrial gray? I can't quite picture the difference. Also, do you have any photos of a fully assembled true red or orange keyboard? Seeing the other examples might sway me from industrial gray.

I paid for an Industrial Gray model simply because it is darker, compared to Silver Gray.

Plus Industrial Gray is the first ever model colour used along with IBM Beige, for these type of keyboards.  If you want old time precision always go full Retro, that way strangers may think you actually own an original Model-F keyboard built years ago  :thumb: .

Ha, that was actually my line of thinking also. I like the industrial gray because it looks original, and it is, afterall, a reproduction.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: NathanA on Fri, 09 June 2017, 09:25:54
The "reproduction" aspect is definitely strong, and if I were interested in a gray case I think it would prove very tempting to choose the Industrial variety for that reason, but my own OCD personality type would likely be more concerned about how closely the gray key caps match with the gray casing.  Is Silver Gray closer to the gray key caps, or is Industrial Gray?  I ask merely to satisfy my own curiosity, though others who do want a gray case may find the answer to this question informative as well.

-- Nathan
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: tron on Fri, 09 June 2017, 09:57:36
The "reproduction" aspect is definitely strong, and if I were interested in a gray case I think it would prove very tempting to choose the Industrial variety for that reason, but my own OCD personality type would likely be more concerned about how closely the gray key caps match with the gray casing.  Is Silver Gray closer to the gray key caps, or is Industrial Gray?  I ask merely to satisfy my own curiosity, though others who do want a gray case may find the answer to this question informative as well.

-- Nathan

I couldn't decide so in addition to my ultra modern black on black, I ordered the original style F62 in silver gray and added off white beige and industrial grey cases as a side order. I may sell the extras after viewing them on my desk, although an extra original style case a great deal considering the build quality and finish.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 10 June 2017, 14:49:52
Great Kavik!

All Model F experts please contribute to the Model F Owner's Manual now up on www.modelfkeyboards.com/wiki

It is aimed at helping both the original keyboards as well as the reproductions.

It will help provide buckling spring owners (everyone from beginners to advanced users) with a central place to learn key re-seating, disassembly, spring replacement, changing the layout, etc.
[attachimg=1]

Kavik here are examples of the colors side by side (these are subject to change due to slight factory variations).  I also show below two photos comparing the original IBM to the reproduction colors to show how close they are.  Please note though that the photos are not 100% accurate in terms of color.
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 11 June 2017, 20:19:02
PBT Key tests from the factory:

The factory expects to spend two more weeks perfecting the injection molds for the keys, as well as mixing the PBT plastic to get the perfect colors for pearl, pebble, and Industrial SSK blue.  The flash (excess plastic) has not been removed from these test keys.

The key texture has not yet been applied to the top of the key molds so they appear shiny/unfinished in these photos.  As always the colors of these photos are not accurate.

Industrial SSK blue full 103 key sets (with and without legends) are available to order if anyone wants them.

Once I approve the keys, production can start on the keys.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 12 June 2017, 09:03:08
PBT Key tests from the factory:

The factory expects to spend two more weeks perfecting the injection molds for the keys, as well as mixing the PBT plastic to get the perfect colors for pearl, pebble, and Industrial SSK blue.  The flash (excess plastic) has not been removed from these test keys.

The key texture has not yet been applied to the top of the key molds so they appear shiny/unfinished in these photos.  As always the colors of these photos are not accurate.

Industrial SSK blue full 103 key sets (with and without legends) are available to order if anyone wants them.

Once I approve the keys, production can start on the keys.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Nice! Was going to pick up a set of blue keycaps but I'm not seeing the option for blue on the website
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Mon, 12 June 2017, 10:58:03
Wait so if we ordered a model F with keycaps are the caps gonna be PBT or ABS?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 12 June 2017, 19:25:10
Wait so if we ordered a model F with keycaps are the caps gonna be PBT or ABS?

It will ALWAYS be PBT because when building to IBM specs, it's the ONLY material used for all key-caps  8) .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: axtran on Mon, 12 June 2017, 23:37:03
Ellipse,

PM'd you some order adjustments (color). :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Tue, 13 June 2017, 01:50:25
Wait so if we ordered a model F with keycaps are the caps gonna be PBT or ABS?

It will ALWAYS be PBT because when building to IBM specs, it's the ONLY material used for all key-caps  8) .

ummm k. So model M keycaps are PBT? They really seem like ABS. Does acetone solve PBT?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: NathanA on Tue, 13 June 2017, 02:08:17
ummm k. So model M keycaps are PBT? They really seem like ABS.

???

They've always been PBT, they currently are PBT (Unicomp), and as long as they continue to be manufactured, always will be PBT.

Have you ever seen a Model F or M with yellowed keycaps? (Rhetorical question.  Answer: no.)

-- Nathan
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Tue, 13 June 2017, 11:13:05
ummm k. So model M keycaps are PBT? They really seem like ABS.

???

They've always been PBT, they currently are PBT (Unicomp), and as long as they continue to be manufactured, always will be PBT.

Have you ever seen a Model F or M with yellowed keycaps? (Rhetorical question.  Answer: no.)

-- Nathan

Huh. Didn't realize they were PBT. Always felt so ABS-y to me.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 13 June 2017, 19:33:25
reececonrad you can just order a standard spare set and make a note that you would like the Industrial SSK blue set.

Yes the keys are all PBT.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: All About Jake on Thu, 15 June 2017, 06:21:34
Really excited about the PBT Keycaps!

I don't suppose there has been any change in the ability to do some Apple Modifiers?  I know that the apple folks were in the minority so it was out of scope.

Just asking. because the project has grown and I figured it didn't hurt to ask.  :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 15 June 2017, 16:20:54
Yes All About Jake you can still order Apple modifiers through www.modelfkeyboards.com/shop

We are a few orders away from the big quarter million dollar mark!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 15 June 2017, 21:18:10
We are three keyboards away from the big quarter million dollar order mark!

As we wait for final tooling at the factory before production finishes up, all the completed parts are waiting in their boxes, ready to be assembled in the coming months - reposting some photos here:

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
[attachimg=6]
[attachimg=7]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: euphxenos on Thu, 15 June 2017, 21:39:10
Having made the molds to produce your own keycaps, are you considering making additional keycap sets that aren't reproductions of IBM colorways (Dolch, for example)?  There's not much out there for buckling spring keyboards.  If your keycaps will work on existing model M's, I suspect there would be a lot of interest.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 15 June 2017, 22:22:30
Having made the molds to produce your own keycaps, are you considering making additional keycap sets that aren't reproductions of IBM colorways (Dolch, for example)?  There's not much out there for buckling spring keyboards.  If your keycaps will work on existing model M's, I suspect there would be a lot of interest.

Dolch uses white legends on a dark grey background IMPOSSIBLE to do with PBT dye-sub.  If you want the white legends then you will have to put up with pad printing which is ALWAYS inferior to real PBT dye-sub.

What Ellipse is doing is the resurrection of the original Model-F series here, so he is sticking with what IBM has used all those years ago when decent engineering was paramount in the manufacture of this device.

I don't personally mind having one or two colours for the buckling spring key switches simply because it's what works and is easily recognized.  If you want Dolch best go with the standard Cherry based switches and be content with what's on offer in that very shallow pool of indifference  8) .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: euphxenos on Thu, 15 June 2017, 22:49:17
Having made the molds to produce your own keycaps, are you considering making additional keycap sets that aren't reproductions of IBM colorways (Dolch, for example)?  There's not much out there for buckling spring keyboards.  If your keycaps will work on existing model M's, I suspect there would be a lot of interest.

Dolch uses white legends on a dark grey background IMPOSSIBLE to do with PBT dye-sub.  If you want the white legends then you will have to put up with pad printing which is ALWAYS inferior to real PBT dye-sub.

What Ellipse is doing is the resurrection of the original Model-F series here, so he is sticking with what IBM has used all those years ago when decent engineering was paramount in the manufacture of this device.

I don't personally mind having one or two colours for the buckling spring key switches simply because it's what works and is easily recognized.  If you want Dolch best go with the standard Cherry based switches and be content with what's on offer in that very shallow pool of indifference  8) .

Good point about dye-sub and Dolch; that was a bad example.  I'm not sure why you're so hostile to the notion of other colorways, though.  "shallow pool of indifference" would also be a good description of Unicomp's keycap offerings.  Given what the keycap market is like for mx-based boards and the large set of existing buckling spring keyboards out there, that seems like an opportunity that someone else will eventually capitalize on.  Why not Ellipse?

I've had a model M on my desk at home and at work (SSKs, mostly) for the past 10-15 years.  I've only recently started looking at what else was out there out of curiosity as to whether I'd benefit from going smaller than an SSK.  I can't say I care much for any of the modern keyswitches I've tried so far, but I do envy them their keycap choices and the 65% layout.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: NathanA on Thu, 15 June 2017, 23:13:14
If you want the white legends then you will have to put up with pad printing which is ALWAYS inferior to real PBT dye-sub.

Agreed that pad printing is teh suck, but couldn't you come up with some quality white-on-black keycaps using double-shot injection molds?

I'd kill for some Model F/M double-shot white-on-black PBT caps personally.  It might be difficult (though not impossible) to construct such a beast in the single-piece style, but surely it would be possible to manufacture the top part of the two-piece variant with double-shot injection (it'd maybe be slightly thicker than a normal cap though).

-- Nathan
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Atredl on Thu, 15 June 2017, 23:17:01

...I'm not sure why you're so hostile to the notion of other colorways, though.  "shallow pool of indifference"...

I see you're new here. Meet Elrick. He know's his stuff but also try not to take him so seriously.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Fri, 16 June 2017, 00:03:29
What Ellipse is doing is the resurrection of the original Model-F series here

Yes I think we're aware of that at this point.

Seriously though. Ellipse, get into the custom Model M cap game. You would make a killing.

And **** it, make em out of ABS so you have more color options. Do they really NEED to be PBT? Like will an ABS version break?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Pete on Fri, 16 June 2017, 12:15:00
I hope all the completed parts are insured in case of fire or volcano or something!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: duface on Fri, 16 June 2017, 14:24:20
What Ellipse is doing is the resurrection of the original Model-F series here

Yes I think we're aware of that at this point.

Seriously though. Ellipse, get into the custom Model M cap game. You would make a killing.

And **** it, make em out of ABS so you have more color options. Do they really NEED to be PBT? Like will an ABS version break?
Yeah, they kind of do. ABS wears down much faster. It's why your ABS keys get shiny and smooth over time. PBT  is wayyy more resistant to that kind of wear.

I don't think the market for buckling spring caps is that big. 99% of the market is cherry.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 16 June 2017, 16:38:49
I can look into other color options for the final round but I would need minimum commitments - probably at least 10-20 key sets.  Please let me know if you know of any popular color options you'd think would be good.

Yes we are sticking with high quality PBT caps. 

Correct I cannot dye sublimate a lighter color onto a darker key cap color due to the limitations of dye sub tech. 

I looked into pad printing and given the very high MOQ I am not pursuing it.  I am not doing double shot-requires different molds to be made.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Fri, 16 June 2017, 19:44:50
I can look into other color options for the final round but I would need minimum commitments - probably at least 10-20 key sets.  Please let me know if you know of any popular color options you'd think would be good.

Yes we are sticking with high quality PBT caps. 

Correct I cannot dye sublimate a lighter color onto a darker key cap color due to the limitations of dye sub tech. 

I looked into pad printing and given the very high MOQ I am not pursuing it.  I am not doing double shot-requires different molds to be made.

Glad you didn't get into PAD Printing because that would of killed this Group Buy for me  :( .

Stick with the ORIGINAL key-cap colour-way because when all is said and done the morons who pick brightly coloured key-caps today, usually end up selling them eventually or getting rid of them.  The standard colour-way for Model-Fs is ALWAYS there, no matter the years that pass and no matter the age of the person who bought it, they will always stay the same.

Buckling Spring is an AMERICAN icon switch hence keep the standard, if you start making Pink, Yellow, Red or Purple key-sets they will be used once then thrown away.  The essence of children wanting a different colour but as they age, that choice they had made is their misery to own along with their own embarrassment.

Buckling Spring isn't a Cherry switch with tonnes of different profiles and colours being available to it.  Stick with the original colour-way so that 20 to 40 years in the future your own grand kiddies can see what an awesome keyboard this is as well as it's enduring design in key-caps.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Fri, 16 June 2017, 21:17:52
Also Ellipse,

PLEASE make sure ALL of the legends are adjusted perfectly on every key cap here, forget about adding numerous colours if the legends are lop sided or placed stupidly all over the key-caps.

Don't forget what Unicomp has done to their dye-sub keys in which they totally stuffed up the legends with ultra poor quality legend placement making them look vastly inferior.  What ever you do Ellipse don't copy Unicomp in any way particularly their current lack of quality in manufacturing key-caps.

YOU have to set the standard here because IBM is no longer in the picture of making their once superior key-switch and their own key-caps, hence it is all up to you now to show the world and leave something in historical records when the future arrives and sees your work for what it shall be, a fantastic reproduction of the original Model-F keyboard in every detail.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Fri, 16 June 2017, 22:48:06
Elrick have you ever considered the possibility that, like, maybe people want something other than what you do? Like, I mean just to be real specific, that they don't share your opinions? Does that make any sense to you? I can try to be more specific if you'd like, let me know. In the meantime, just something for you to consider. Food for though, so to speak.

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Sat, 17 June 2017, 00:00:21
Elrick have you ever considered the possibility that, like, maybe people want something other than what you do? Like, I mean just to be real specific, that they don't share your opinions? Does that make any sense to you? I can try to be more specific if you'd like, let me know. In the meantime, just something for you to consider. Food for though, so to speak.

 :rolleyes:

Are you, like, the opinion police? I'm pretty sure he's aware. Let the man have his say, his posts are quality
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Sat, 17 June 2017, 00:51:41
Nevermind. I don't care. I just want the F77.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: stoic-lemon on Sat, 17 June 2017, 08:10:39
Elrick have you ever considered the possibility that, like, maybe people want something other than what you do? Like, I mean just to be real specific, that they don't share your opinions? Does that make any sense to you? I can try to be more specific if you'd like, let me know. In the meantime, just something for you to consider. Food for though, so to speak.

 :rolleyes:

Are you, like, the opinion police? I'm pretty sure he's aware. Let the man have his say, his posts are quality

Nobody ever calls him out on his BS, so I see no problem in someone disagreeing with his ott posts which dismiss and often attack anyone with a different opinion.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 19 June 2017, 17:18:21
Elrick is abrasive. You get used to it.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Wed, 21 June 2017, 04:02:43
Ellipse for those of us that ordered early when you were still planning to buy the keys from Unicomp for this project, I assume those sets are automatically (and thankfully) being replaced with the sets you are making but what happens in the case of an APL set or anything outside the std that would have originally come from Unicomp?

Elrick is abrasive. You get used to it.
And maybe even learn to love it.. ;)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 21 June 2017, 06:06:47
Yes atlas.  Only a few people are getting special sets like Unicomp APL.  I will not be making those.  Most APL orderers switched to the new keys.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Wed, 21 June 2017, 10:21:31


Elrick is abrasive. You get used to it.
And maybe even learn to love it.. ;)

Not a chance.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: romevi on Wed, 21 June 2017, 12:33:36
Elrick is abrasive. You get used to it.

^
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Thu, 22 June 2017, 01:52:17
Yes atlas.  Only a few people are getting special sets like Unicomp APL.  I will not be making those.  Most APL orderers switched to the new keys.

Thanks, pm'd.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: axtran on Fri, 23 June 2017, 10:53:42
@Ellipse, I PM'd regarding a color and cap color change to my F62 compact, haven't received any system notice yet.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 24 June 2017, 16:32:28
I am heading back from KeyCon 2017!  Nice meeting everyone, and hope everyone had a chance to try out the first run F62 and F77 keyboards!  Please do post your initial impressions if you'd like but keep in mind these are not yet finished :)

Sorry for the delay axtran
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Latin00032 on Sat, 24 June 2017, 16:49:31
I am heading back from KeyCon 2017!  Nice meeting everyone, and hope everyone had a chance to try out the first run F62 and F77 keyboards!  Please do post your initial impressions if you'd like but keep in mind these are not yet finished :)

Sorry for the delay axtran
Thanks for bringing them out!
You made me a believer out of me.
I have to get in on this now.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: smt on Sat, 24 June 2017, 21:12:27
I am heading back from KeyCon 2017!  Nice meeting everyone, and hope everyone had a chance to try out the first run F62 and F77 keyboards!  Please do post your initial impressions if you'd like but keep in mind these are not yet finished :)

It was quite an experience, getting to try out your prototypes. Moreso, a pleasure to meet you in person. Lovely work - it is clearly a labor of love, what you're doing.

I come from the MX world, as a relatively new enthusiast. Never had an opportunity to type on buckling springs (at least as an adult) until today, so I didn't know what to expect. The keys were buttery smooth, yet tactile, and audibly... assertive. A real pleasure to type on.

The zinc cases were most impressive. Very hefty and solid. As you mentioned, the anodized aluminum cases need further improvement, but they'll also be very nice once they get there.

I appreciated the quick demo you gave me of the key mapping utility as you were getting ready to leave. Thanks for doing that! I've never used this firmware before, so it was great to see what I was in for.

Thanks for coming out!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 24 June 2017, 22:13:52
removed.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: nickheller on Sat, 24 June 2017, 22:54:36
I am heading back from KeyCon 2017!  Nice meeting everyone, and hope everyone had a chance to try out the first run F62 and F77 keyboards!  Please do post your initial impressions if you'd like but keep in mind these are not yet finished :)

Sorry for the delay axtran

Really nice to meet you!  I brought an original model F AT to the meetup, and can say I didn't notice a difference in feel really.  The F77 looked so good.  really considering one now


Really want to order a f62 now...
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: stoic-lemon on Sun, 25 June 2017, 01:37:46
Nice to see some positive impressions.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamacicada on Sun, 25 June 2017, 03:07:35
.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Sun, 25 June 2017, 03:13:19
I am heading back from KeyCon 2017!  Nice meeting everyone, and hope everyone had a chance to try out the first run F62 and F77 keyboards!  Please do post your initial impressions if you'd like but keep in mind these are not yet finished :)

Sorry for the delay axtran

Really nice to meet you!  I brought an original model F AT to the meetup, and can say I didn't notice a difference in feel really.  The F77 looked so good.  really considering one now


Really want to order a f62 now...

Seems like everyone there at keycon had good impression with them. I've been trying to cut down on kb purchases lately but I think I really should order an f62 now or else I'll regret it later

I'm definitely buying one or both now. Killer boards.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Sun, 25 June 2017, 21:14:22
Nice to see some positive impressions.

A newly built Model-F will always do that to you   :thumb: .

Even those pathetic fools that use to worship Cherry and their clones, come away amazed when they first use an authentic Model-F keyboard.

In the end those with low- IQ's tend to be happy in their ignorance and will miss in owning this spectacular keyboard but those who know what a real Model-F is like, will benefit from owning this newly resurrected piece of history, done to perfection.

Never feel sorry for the foolish and the ignorant, they deserve to only have poorly designed and manufactured keyboards, since they can not even comprehend in owning and using an Ellipse keyboard within their dull lives.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Sun, 25 June 2017, 23:31:37




In the end those with low- IQ's


Dude are you serious? **** off already.

You are a complete douchebag. What the hell have you ever contributed except asinine behavior?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: futurecrime on Mon, 26 June 2017, 04:24:13




In the end those with low- IQ's


Dude are you serious? **** off already.

You are a complete douchebag. What the hell have you ever contributed except asinine behavior?

Hype. Lots and lots of hype.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: joey on Mon, 26 June 2017, 04:31:41




In the end those with low- IQ's


Dude are you serious? **** off already.

You are a complete douchebag. What the hell have you ever contributed except asinine behavior?
Feel free to ignore his messages!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Mon, 26 June 2017, 11:14:01




In the end those with low- IQ's


Dude are you serious? **** off already.

You are a complete douchebag. What the hell have you ever contributed except asinine behavior?
Feel free to ignore his messages!

Yeah, along with those of everyone else too. Shows what kind of community we got here that lets a guy like that spread his toxicity around freely. Just goes to show, doesnt it?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Mon, 26 June 2017, 11:36:21




In the end those with low- IQ's


Dude are you serious? **** off already.

You are a complete douchebag. What the hell have you ever contributed except asinine behavior?
Feel free to ignore his messages!

Yeah, along with those of everyone else too. Shows what kind of community we got here that lets a guy like that spread his toxicity around freely. Just goes to show, doesnt it?

Well you can either report his message or ignore all his posts.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Mon, 26 June 2017, 12:38:19




In the end those with low- IQ's


Dude are you serious? **** off already.

You are a complete douchebag. What the hell have you ever contributed except asinine behavior?
Feel free to ignore his messages!

Yeah, along with those of everyone else too. Shows what kind of community we got here that lets a guy like that spread his toxicity around freely. Just goes to show, doesnt it?

Well you can either report his message or ignore all his posts.

Thanks for the tip. I reported his comment.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 26 June 2017, 19:06:59
Yes thanks all for the kind words trying out the Brand New Model F keyboards in person.

If there are any more meetups coming up please let me know.  I might be out in northern CA for a week or so this summer in case anyone is doing a meetup.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Latin00032 on Mon, 26 June 2017, 21:24:40
How would I get a red case for the keyboard on the website?
I don't think I saw a red option.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Tue, 27 June 2017, 07:59:31
I'm gonna throw all my other boards in the trash when mine shows up... maybe I keep just one hhkb...
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 27 June 2017, 16:42:43
Latin00032 feel free to order 75 units of the store item "$1 increments" and make a note that it is for the True Red case upgrade.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ipreferpie on Tue, 27 June 2017, 22:49:17
Hey Ellipse, just following up on an email sent last week regarding my order change and adds #1953. Can you check your email since I added on to your Excel spreadsheet for easy sorting. Thanks very much
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: DZed on Wed, 28 June 2017, 13:06:27
Hello Geekhack! Ellipse and I have been chatting and he has asked if I would do the F XT Quality reproduction legends for the keys he is offering. Without really knowing what I was stepping into (8 International kits!) I agreed and began working up a list of all the keys I would need to produce. Ellipse thought that it might be useful if I were to share the pics I worked up for those folks still deciding what they want to order. All the fonts and icons are just placeholders at this point as I have not finished the artwork yet. First up is the base kit and the option kits as they are currently available.

[attach=1]

Here are the num/nav pad options for the F77. #3 is a layout that I came up with and Ellipse thought it might be worth offering.

[attach=2]

As I was working up the key/legend list, various additional possibilities started coming to mind. Some of these keys may end up in the kits which are currently offered, some may end up in an extra kit(s) and some may be a bit too ambitious to produce (media keys?). Now is the time to offer any feedback you have for novelties or whatever you might like to add. Items circled in red have placeholder legends, all the arrows and such are actual artwork from the reproduction font.

[attach=3]

Hope this proves useful. I will post a few layout pics soon as well as the current state of the F font reproduction.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: DZed on Wed, 28 June 2017, 13:30:37
Here are the various layout options offered for the F62 and F77. Posted for those still sitting on the fence as the early bird deadline approaches!

[attach=1]

Some mockups of the various optional key sets.

[attach=2]

Better renders with the reproduction font will follow but I wanted to get this posted before the ordering deadline.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: jzono1 on Wed, 28 June 2017, 16:51:03
How far away is the deadline? (Found it on the webpage. Just a couple more days.  :))

I still have to put in three of the four keyboards I'll be ordering. One of each in True Red. One black and one industrial grey. I think I want an Industrial Grey F62, but now that I see the SSK keyset I'm not sure anymore. Can I still get the F77 in Industrial Grey?

The Industrial SSK key set looks incredible. How do I order it?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 28 June 2017, 19:21:15
Yes jzono1 you can still get F77 in Industrial Gray and/or True Red.  Here is the link for the Industrial SSK set:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/industrial-ssk-blue-keys/

Thanks again Zed.  Once the higher resolution screenshots are ready please send them over and I will post on the web site.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: DZed on Wed, 28 June 2017, 19:28:27
Glad to be part of the project Ellipse. Up to the letter X now.  ;D
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: a_ak57 on Wed, 28 June 2017, 22:01:19
Are these caps going to have the same font as the ones you can get from Unicomp?  Was considering picking up a red Esc/Enter from them to create a vaguely Honeywell vibe, but if you guys are doing things a bit differently then I won't bother (or is that something I could get from you?).
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 28 June 2017, 22:09:32
The font will resemble that of the original XT keyboards - not too far off from Unicomp's font.  I don't think it would be an issue.  The only colors for my keys are the standard pearl/pebble, black, and Industrial SSK blue.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ricyuyc on Wed, 28 June 2017, 22:59:14
Hi Ellipse, I ordered a F77 through modelfkeyboards.com last month, how could I add the F XT Quality keyset into my order? Thanks.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 28 June 2017, 23:42:41
ricyuyc feel free to order this store item and choose free/other shipping - https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/set-of-xt-quality-one-piece-keys/
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 29 June 2017, 02:26:06
The only colors for my keys are the standard pearl/pebble, black, and Industrial SSK blue.

Thanks Ellipse for still holding firm over 'original colours' verses all the fairy-like colours that so many idiot-millennials would want. 

Some of them do not even know how to dress, let alone choose correct colours for anything  ;D .

As always love your work and keep it going all the way to the finish, which will be SUPERB.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: joey on Thu, 29 June 2017, 02:30:04
ricyuyc feel free to order this store item and choose free/other shipping - https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/set-of-xt-quality-one-piece-keys/
Is this the 'standard' set I will get by default?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 29 June 2017, 06:25:11
Yes joey
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: futurecrime on Thu, 29 June 2017, 07:20:34
Now is the time to offer any feedback you have for novelties or whatever you might like to add.

I'd love a backspace key to replace capslock for Colemak. Ellipse suggested ordering a blank but hey if we're making requests then why not. x
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: a_ak57 on Thu, 29 June 2017, 10:38:12
The font will resemble that of the original XT keyboards - not too far off from Unicomp's font.  I don't think it would be an issue.  The only colors for my keys are the standard pearl/pebble, black, and Industrial SSK blue.

Cool, thanks for the info.  I also realized if I don't like it I could just throw the caps on my Unicomp board anyway.  Pretty excited for this project though, I finally may find a switch that could challenge my topre love, and (for me) with an HHKB layout no less?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: stoic-lemon on Thu, 29 June 2017, 12:30:48
Now is the time to offer any feedback you have for novelties or whatever you might like to add.

I'd love a backspace key to replace capslock for Colemak. Ellipse suggested ordering a blank but hey if we're making requests then why not. x

Me too!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: DZed on Thu, 29 June 2017, 12:40:38
I would normally wait a few days until I had the rest of the legends finished before posting pics but here is the current state of the F XT Quality Legends reproduction for the benefit of the fence-sitting early birds. The mods are the 'F Style' icon only since I have not yet done the lower case letters and more importantly, because it looks pretty cool! All these legends are hand drawn from a very high resolution scan of original Model F keys provided by Ellipse.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: dotcom on Fri, 30 June 2017, 08:19:52
Would it possible to change the layout of my F77 from ANSI to ISO with shift split left and the rest ANSI? If it's too late to change the layout, could I please add ISO keys to my order so I can modify the layout myself once it's delivered?

Thanks for your consideration! I'm super stoked!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: duynguyenle on Fri, 30 June 2017, 18:40:46
Here are the various layout options offered for the F62 and F77. Posted for those still sitting on the fence as the early bird deadline approaches!

(Attachment Link)

Some mockups of the various optional key sets.

(Attachment Link)

Better renders with the reproduction font will follow but I wanted to get this posted before the ordering deadline.

My order actually has a layout that isn't in those visuals (ISO, but with additional split right shift). Will this be possible? Or will I have to change it back to standard ISO?

Also, really great job on those legends, I have always been partial to icon-only modifiers, and this really tickle my fancy :D
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: DZed on Fri, 30 June 2017, 19:10:21
Here are the various layout options offered for the F62 and F77. Posted for those still sitting on the fence as the early bird deadline approaches!

(Attachment Link)

Some mockups of the various optional key sets.

(Attachment Link)

Better renders with the reproduction font will follow but I wanted to get this posted before the ordering deadline.

My order actually has a layout that isn't in those visuals (ISO, but with additional split right shift). Will this be possible? Or will I have to change it back to standard ISO?

Also, really great job on those legends, I have always been partial to icon-only modifiers, and this really tickle my fancy :D

Thanks duynguyenle it seems Ellipse is also a fan of the icon only option so hopefully we will be able to get those keys made. My layouts were not comprehensive given that the project offers all sorts of customization, I couldn't easily show every possible option. I would think you are OK. Especially if the order went through without any problems but that is up to Ellipse to say for sure.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 03 July 2017, 16:03:45
As noted before the default keys will be the Model M style legends for everyone.  I will be making the Model F style legends as well as extra individual keys.  If Zed makes the legend I will try to include it in the dye sublimation but I do not want to put time into custom one off legends when I have to get the orders out.

Soon the key molds will be bottlenecking the project if the molds are not to spec in a month or so.  For that reason I am thinking of replacing the mold subcontractor with another one that I've worked with before.  This will eliminate further delays on the keys.  I was expecting this key issue to be fixed at the start of June. 

The HHKB style F62/F77 comes iwth the 1.5U Delete key with backspace as the function layer, to match the HHKB original.  I can take extra orders if some people want Back- space, the icon only, or the like on the keyboard.

The #3 F77 right side block will be available but it will be extra and not installed on the keyboards.  I will not be printing custom front legends besides the front printed F1, etc. set and the Industrial SSK set.

Zed everything looks great!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 03 July 2017, 20:34:04
Soon the key molds will be bottlenecking the project if the molds are not to spec in a month or so.  For that reason I am thinking of replacing the mold subcontractor with another one that I've worked with before.  This will eliminate further delays on the keys.  I was expecting this key issue to be fixed at the start of June. 

ALWAYS stick with the contractor you have worked with before because we here in no man's land, knows what it's like trusting another sub-contractor to do the job and fails all because they were cheap and the accountants were happy with the low-ball quote.

If we had stuck with our original contractor the job would of been done within time and budget, which overall saved us a whole lot further on down the line.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 03 July 2017, 21:19:52
Unfortunately Elrick we had production delays with the main guys too, so it is not the case that these guys were holding up the project.  We are still actually waiting on some of their tooling to finish (the top inner assemblies as mentioned above).

I am looking into having the springs made in the US at higher cost if the factory's next samples do not sound right.

Maybe I should write a book on all this after production ends in the coming months?  Of course typed on a brand new F77 :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: DZed on Tue, 04 July 2017, 19:02:43
Latest update for the XT Quality font.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: duynguyenle on Tue, 04 July 2017, 19:23:29
Latest update for the XT Quality font.

That's really nice... I'm still happy with the F62 I ordered for now, but if the initial round goes well, I think I will pick up a F77 in the second production round in order to complete the duo.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 04 July 2017, 19:44:33
Zed sent me the SVG of the XT font and the legends are near perfect!  I printed them out 100% on my laser printer and did some digital micrometer spot checks.

These are going to look great on all our F62 and F77 keyboards!

Great duynguyenle - everyone will have time to try out the first round boards for a month or two at least before the final round ends.

Do people prefer the pebble `~ key for the HHKB layout?  Everyone will be getting the pearl version as the default and the pebble `~ is not part of the HHKB key set but I could probably make them available as an extra key.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: robotsokk on Tue, 04 July 2017, 21:35:57
Do people prefer the pebble `~ key for the HHKB layout?  Everyone will be getting the pearl version as the default and the pebble `~ is not part of the HHKB key set but I could probably make them available as an extra key.

I personally went with an all black set, but like the idea of having the option to use a pebble key for `~

Also, when is the *very* last round? I'm still on the fence about picking up an alt case for my F62...
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Gamecat on Tue, 04 July 2017, 21:54:28
Is it possible to do the ultracompact F77 in industrial gray? 
Title: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Atredl on Tue, 04 July 2017, 22:52:20
Zed sent me the SVG of the XT font and the legends are near perfect!  I printed them out 100% on my laser printer and did some digital micrometer spot checks.

These are going to look great on all our F62 and F77 keyboards!

Great duynguyenle - everyone will have time to try out the first round boards for a month or two at least before the final round ends.

Do people prefer the pebble `~ key for the HHKB layout?  Everyone will be getting the pearl version as the default and the pebble `~ is not part of the HHKB key set but I could probably make them available as an extra key.
Yup, please include the pebble '~ key for us symmetry freaks.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 04 July 2017, 23:22:32
No Gamecat the ultra compact keyboards only offer black and regular gray anodizing.

The second and last round is the final round later this year.

If anyone wants the custom pebble/dark gray `~ key please order 3 units of the store item "$1 increments" and I will make some (please add a note that it is for the pebble `~ key).
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: a_ak57 on Tue, 04 July 2017, 23:40:29
Definitely in for a pebble `~ since symmetry is king; didn't even think to ask about that so thanks for offering it.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Atredl on Wed, 05 July 2017, 00:51:16
Do we choose "other shipping" when adding the pebble `~ key?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: futurecrime on Wed, 05 July 2017, 04:08:00
I'm in for a pebble ~.

Zed sent me the SVG of the XT font and the legends are near perfect!  I printed them out 100% on my laser printer and did some digital micrometer spot checks.

Once aqain your attention to detail is astounding on this. I hope you're documenting the process thoroughly, it's a fantastic project.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: DZed on Wed, 05 July 2017, 13:39:56
I just keep upping the workload for you don't I Ellipse?  :D I swear, that pebble ~ just ended up in the render. I didn't even think about the fact that it wasn't part of the HHKB kit just that the lords of symmetry must be honored!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Gamecat on Wed, 05 July 2017, 13:49:06
No Gamecat the ultra compact keyboards only offer black and regular gray anodizing.

The second and last round is the final round later this year.

If anyone wants the custom pebble/dark gray `~ key please order 3 units of the store item "$1 increments" and I will make some (please add a note that it is for the pebble `~ key).

I see an option for "Another color - Please message me beforehand" on the website, is that still a possibility for the ultracompact case?  If so what is the cost and how to setup?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: NathanA on Wed, 05 July 2017, 15:25:31
I see an option for "Another color - Please message me beforehand" on the website, is that still a possibility for the ultracompact case?
I don't think that was ever an option for the ultracompact, only the classic.

-- Nathan
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 05 July 2017, 16:08:49
Custom colors are an option for the compact cases, it will cost about $500 extra.  Bright dipping is probably more.

Yes, you can just pick other/free shipping to add it to your order.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Asbrodeus on Wed, 05 July 2017, 17:34:09
Do we choose "other shipping" when adding the pebble `~ key?

wondering the same.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 05 July 2017, 18:28:30
Today the project is featured on the home page of www.PopularMechanics.com - a comprehensive look at the project and on the Model F keyboard.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/a27123/model-f-project-buckling-spring-keyboard/

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Mr_BeastQuake on Wed, 05 July 2017, 18:32:36
Congrats on the article.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: robotsokk on Wed, 05 July 2017, 19:19:01
That's so awesome! Congrats  :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: axtran on Wed, 05 July 2017, 19:48:09
Today the project is featured on the home page of www.PopularMechanics.com - a comprehensive look at the project and on the Model F keyboard.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/a27123/model-f-project-buckling-spring-keyboard/

That's awesome! Pretty much life goal stuff!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 05 July 2017, 20:58:21
Today the project is featured on the home page of www.PopularMechanics.com (http://www.PopularMechanics.com) - a comprehensive look at the project and on the Model F keyboard.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/a27123/model-f-project-buckling-spring-keyboard/ (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/a27123/model-f-project-buckling-spring-keyboard/)

(Attachment Link)

Geez you've done it  :o .

Appearing on Popular Mechanics, that use to be my fave mag when I was in my early teens.  Onya for making it and I hope more of your fellow Americans realize what an awesome project you have accomplished here but also help them understand what a brilliant key-switch that the Model-F is.

Time for the Model-F to become the mainstay of every keyboard owner around the globe, stamp down the pitiful Cherry and other wannabes pretending to offer the only keyboard experience for millions worldwide.  When they start using the Model-F, I bet every Yank within your own country would be in this Group Buy without any hesitation.

Everyone talks about how patriotic the Americans are yet where are they with this Model-F project, where are the MILLION's signing up for this unique piece of history?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Atredl on Thu, 06 July 2017, 00:52:22
Do we choose "other shipping" when adding the pebble `~ key?

wondering the same.

I emailed him and he said to choose other shipping.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: futurecrime on Thu, 06 July 2017, 08:38:34
Today the project is featured on the home page of www.PopularMechanics.com - a comprehensive look at the project and on the Model F keyboard.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/a27123/model-f-project-buckling-spring-keyboard/

(Attachment Link)

Fantastic. Congratulations!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 06 July 2017, 17:16:17
Check out today's ExtremeTech, Tom's Hardware, and Tech Report articles on the Model F Project!  All are great at concisely explaining the project / the Model F keyboard.

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/252014-ibm-model-f-keyboard-returns-30-year-hiatus

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/model-f-mechanical-keyboards-buckling-spring-f77-f62,34954.html

http://techreport.com/news/32206/model-f-keyboard-gets-a-modern-reboot

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: stoic-lemon on Fri, 07 July 2017, 02:06:23
I noticed the project getting a lot of coverage today. Great to see it pop up in my newsfeed.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Pete on Fri, 07 July 2017, 15:25:04
Does the KB ship with an ESC key to replace the tilde key if you want?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 07 July 2017, 15:50:14
Yep Pete, you get the full set.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Latin00032 on Fri, 07 July 2017, 20:17:45
So, if I order an ultra compact f62 in a hhkb layout, I need to order 3 units of the $1 special key and put a note saying it's for the pebble ~` 1u key, right?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 07 July 2017, 21:08:02
Yes that will work!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 08 July 2017, 19:50:02
Today the project is on the home page of Slashdot!  The traffic brought down the site for a bit but now it is back up and running.  https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/07/08/0556248/enthusiast-resurrects-ibms-legendary-model-f-keyboard
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sat, 08 July 2017, 19:58:01
It's hilarious reading those comments. Sometimes I get too insulated in the keyboard community, and I forget that probably only one in a hundred computer users even notice what kind of keyboards they're using. And most of those are like "why doesn't this keyboard have multicolored backlighting like my gaming special??"
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 08 July 2017, 19:59:04
The spring-flipper attacher machine is finished! The factory did a great job designing and building this machine.

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Latin00032 on Sat, 08 July 2017, 21:06:07
The spring-flipper attacher machine is finished! The factory did a great job designing and building this machine.

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Can you make a mini-video showing how it works?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Sat, 08 July 2017, 22:30:12
The spring-flipper attacher machine is finished! The factory did a great job designing and building this machine.

I sure hope they have built at least a hundred of these because you do know you will need at least a million or so springs attached to the lower body sections?

Pity the poor soul who's job is to operate that machine constantly, just have no idea the extra time this will take especially if you want it done to a high standard.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: alienman82 on Sat, 08 July 2017, 22:40:27
removed.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 08 July 2017, 22:45:07
Thanks, though no paid ads yet for this project interestingly enough - if anyone is a web marketer by trade and has any advice in that area please let me know.  I might want to do some advertising for the final round to make sure as many people hear about the project as possible before the order window closes.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 09 July 2017, 15:56:41
Wow the project got on the home page at TechSpot!  What an honor to see the Model F on the tech news sites!  https://www.techspot.com/news/70043-weekend-tech-reading-onedrive-stops-supporting-non-ntfs-ibm-model-f-diy-remote-pc-starter.html

Latin00032 I might make a video when I am over in China (where the spring attacher is located) - I expect to head over there for final quality inspections before they ship to me and I do further QC.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: robotsokk on Sun, 09 July 2017, 16:12:02
Wow the project got on the home page at TechSpot!  What an honor to see the Model F on the tech news sites!  https://www.techspot.com/news/70043-weekend-tech-reading-onedrive-stops-supporting-non-ntfs-ibm-model-f-diy-remote-pc-starter.html

Really awesome to see the positive press this project is (rightfully) getting! I'm sure I'll look back and be very grateful that I had a chance to join in this buy. Thanks Ellipse for all the hard work you've been putting into this project! Really stoked to see stuff like the flipper apparatus -- it's all coming together  :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Marutks on Tue, 11 July 2017, 13:29:42
Are those keyboards programmable?

This picture shows Mac Command keys next to Space.   
https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/command-option-keys/

Do I have to order this specific layout or I can change it myself?

What about arrow keys on Kishsaver?   What key combination is for them?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: duynguyenle on Tue, 11 July 2017, 17:55:22
Are those keyboards programmable?

This picture shows Mac Command keys next to Space.   
https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/command-option-keys/

Do I have to order this specific layout or I can change it myself?

What about arrow keys on Kishsaver?   What key combination is for them?

Yes it's fully remappable (xwhatsit controller I believe). And since it's fully mappable including many function layers as you wish, you can place the arrow keys (and any other keys) anywhere you want.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 11 July 2017, 18:04:35
The Mac command keys are an additional option.  The keyboards do not come with that layout by default.  You can move keys around to other positions if you want, and you can also configure each physical key using the xwhatsit GUI software.

The factory default setting will match the HHKB style function layers like those here:  http://elitekeyboards.com/proddata/doc/hhkbp2_basic_layout.png

Of course this can be adjusted in the software once you get it.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 12 July 2017, 18:44:44
Production update:

I continue using and testing the new Model F's and we are very close to getting the right amount of the musical reverb when typing!  Even with some of the components not yet 100%.

I received the latest shipment today from the factory, including two Industrial Gray production cases and sample keys and springs.

The factory did a great job on the Industrial Gray cases.  They are the correct mix of gray, green, and tan that is a cross between the greenish-tan-gray Industrial SSK and the more greenish full size Industrial M's.  Nice bumpy texture and matte paint.

The latest spring samples do not match my tolerances and specifications and they have been rejected.  At this point I expect to work with one of the US spring factories I've received a quote from in the past month or so (after evaluating their samples first of course).  I have to absorb the costs here but it looks like everyone is expected to get US made buckling springs!

The latest keys have excellent PBT like the originals, but failed to match the tolerances and I am talking with the factory about options and next steps.  May have to switch subcontractors on this part as I mentioned before; we don't want to wait forever for these sub's to improve!

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: duynguyenle on Wed, 12 July 2017, 18:52:45
Production update:

I continue using and testing the new Model F's and we are very close to getting the right amount of the musical reverb when typing!  Even with some of the components not yet 100%.

I received the latest shipment today from the factory, including two Industrial Gray production cases and sample keys and springs.

The factory did a great job on the Industrial Gray cases.  They are the correct mix of gray, green, and tan that is a cross between the greenish-tan-gray Industrial SSK and the more greenish full size Industrial M's.  Nice bumpy texture and matte paint.

The latest spring samples do not match my tolerances and specifications and they have been rejected.  At this point I expect to work with one of the US spring factories I've received a quote from in the past month or so (after evaluating their samples first of course).  I have to absorb the costs here but it looks like everyone is expected to get US made buckling springs!

The latest keys have excellent PBT like the originals, but failed to match the tolerances and I am talking with the factory about options and next steps.  May have to switch subcontractors on this part as I mentioned before; we don't want to wait forever for these sub's to improve!

(Attachment Link)

Have you got any pictures to share of the Industrial Grey cases? Really want to see that one, as that's the colour I ordered!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: NathanA on Wed, 12 July 2017, 20:23:40
The latest spring samples do not match my tolerances and specifications and they have been rejected.
You rock.   :thumb:

-- Nathan
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Wed, 12 July 2017, 20:41:53
Ellipse,
Could you go into more detail about what about the springs and keycaps do not match your specifications? Have you tested them within a keyboard? How do they operate? I'd like to better understand your basis for rejecting these parts.

Also, what is the updated timeline given that you have to reject the springs and the keycaps? Can we in any way expect to see these keyboards before the end of the year?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 12 July 2017, 21:41:43
Yes we are still looking at Q4 - the springs do not take long to make.  The factory is going to talk with the subcontractor to see if the key molds can be corrected.  And they are still working on the updated top inner assembly tooling.

The springs are too short in inner diameter (not fitting onto the flippers properly).  Some of the samples require too much force to press.  Some do not buckle reliably.  The factory has had several tries but has been unable to make the springs to spec so I am not using that subcontractor.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 13 July 2017, 20:44:17
Production update:

The factory did a great job on the Industrial Gray cases.  They are the correct mix of gray, green, and tan that is a cross between the greenish-tan-gray Industrial SSK and the more greenish full size Industrial M's.  Nice bumpy texture and matte paint.


PLEASE provide the pics of these miraculous colors chosen, this will help keep us who bought F77's excited for another few months yet  :o   .
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 14 July 2017, 09:39:49
Agreed.  Let's keep on topic of the board and not politics.  Focus on the light at the end of the Q4 tunnel!

Would love to see some more photos whenever you get time, Ellipse
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: nathanrosspowell on Fri, 14 July 2017, 12:13:48
F62 HHKB CANT WAIT BOIIIIIII  :thumb:


Mod Edit: Removed quotes of deleted posts
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 14 July 2017, 12:48:34
Thread has been cleaned up after recent threadcrapping, and warnings handed out.  Keep the thread on-topic, and more importantly, keep your offensive and insulting views to yourself.  This is not the place for that.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Fri, 14 July 2017, 12:49:12
racism

bitter personal attack

Elrick: Keep your ****ty racist opinions to yourself. Your experience with Chinese equipment doesn't mean what you said isn't racist. It's not allowed on this forum.

PancakeMSTR: Just drop it and report posts you feel break forum rules. Contempt and vitriol will only make things worse. You can also put Elrick on ignore.

Just stay on topic folks.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Fri, 14 July 2017, 12:49:56
Ninja'd.

What hoff said.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 14 July 2017, 15:58:09
While we wait on the factory and some photos from me, I was wondering if we could discuss:

Where will you be using your brand new Model F keyboard?  What kind of work/activities will you be using it for most (writing, coding, gaming, etc.)?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: bthezebra on Fri, 14 July 2017, 16:06:37
Model F77
I was planning to have it as a general use board and determine my overall satisfaction with the switches. I will definitely attempt to game with it but more than likely this will be used when filling out forms, updating resume, and maybe my go-to when taking excell courses. At the moment I am not a coder genius like some here but would like to learn.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: hashbaz on Fri, 14 July 2017, 16:21:18
Where will you be using your brand new Model F keyboard?  What kind of work/activities will you be using it for most (writing, coding, gaming, etc.)?

I expect it to become my primary work keyboard.

(http://imgur.com/VhlQK.gif) (http://imgur.com/VhlQK)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 14 July 2017, 17:18:45
NPR Interview tonight!

It is an honor to be a guest tonight on NPR's evening program All Things Considered!  The 3 minute segment on the Model F keyboards will air around 7:30 or 8pm, at least in NY.  Please tune in to listen!

The audio is now posted here if you missed the broadcast:  http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/07/14/537290841/this-10-pound-keyboard-from-the-1980s-is-making-a-comeback
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 14 July 2017, 17:51:35
 whoa  npr, that's awesome!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: bthezebra on Fri, 14 July 2017, 17:53:21
Agreed major props looking forward to listening to the recorded session.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Fri, 14 July 2017, 18:29:17
NPR Interview tonight!

It is an honor to be a guest tonight on NPR's evening program All Things Considered!  The 3 minute segment on the Model F keyboards will air around 7:30 or 8pm, at least in NY.  Please tune in to listen!

The segment will be posted here later tonight/tomorrow:  http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/07/14/537290841/this-10-pound-keyboard-from-the-1980s-is-making-a-comeback

What no ****? That's awesome
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: robotsokk on Fri, 14 July 2017, 23:49:36
NPR Interview tonight!

It is an honor to be a guest tonight on NPR's evening program All Things Considered!  The 3 minute segment on the Model F keyboards will air around 7:30 or 8pm, at least in NY.  Please tune in to listen!

The audio is now posted here if you missed the broadcast:  http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/07/14/537290841/this-10-pound-keyboard-from-the-1980s-is-making-a-comeback

Man, this just keeps getting even better. Huge props to you, Ellipse! Curious to find out whether this segment brings in a fresh batch of orders (or at least eyeballs on the site to learn more about your project :D).

Edit: Really enjoyed your description of typing on the keyboard, with the various parts interacting... like a musical instrument :) All this just makes me even more excited to eventually get mine under my fingers.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: bthezebra on Sat, 15 July 2017, 00:50:57
I played the segment in front of my girlfriend and wanted to mute it when they mentioned the price lol but the hosts on NPR softened the blow talking about the price for the originals adjusted for inflation. You were well spoken and specific on word choice. Congratulations on your hard work and endeavors building a success story. I hope to find my own someday!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: zacheadams on Sat, 15 July 2017, 10:54:18
NPR Interview tonight!

It is an honor to be a guest tonight on NPR's evening program All Things Considered!  The 3 minute segment on the Model F keyboards will air around 7:30 or 8pm, at least in NY.  Please tune in to listen!

The audio is now posted here if you missed the broadcast:  http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/07/14/537290841/this-10-pound-keyboard-from-the-1980s-is-making-a-comeback

Awesome dude.  I just put in an order.  I was considering it for a long time, but seeing/hearing this interview reminded me to just click the buttons.

It was a pleasure meeting you at KeyCon and I can't wait to see the finished product sometime between now and certain apocalypse (and hopefully sooner).

 :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 15 July 2017, 15:13:57
We reached $300,000 in orders!

Thanks and nice meeting you too!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: duncancmt on Sun, 16 July 2017, 11:51:57
I'm trying to gather interest to add an extra color of keycap to this GB. They'd be black dyesub on slightly lighter black caps. Sound off in this thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=90614.0) if you're interested.
Since this is intended to be part of the GB, I hope I don't cause any offense by posting in this thread.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 16 July 2017, 12:52:34
Yes confirmed I'm looking to add an extra key set color.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: pixelpusher on Sun, 16 July 2017, 14:18:46
I'm totally lost with the keycaps on this board.  I just assumed there was one option when I joined a year back.  Now it seems there are some blue caps somewhere and options for dual tone (different mods from alphas) and now we're talking about black or dark gray.

What comes with the F62 when I chose caps with legends?

What else is available?

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 16 July 2017, 14:22:24
reececonrad here is the proposed summary of the key options:  http://imgur.com/a/WR7h4

You'd be getting the full XT quality base set (the top half of the first photo)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: duynguyenle on Sun, 16 July 2017, 16:04:59
reececonrad here is the proposed summary of the key options:  http://imgur.com/a/WR7h4

You'd be getting the full XT quality base set (the top half of the first photo)

Just to clarify, any orders of the F62 and F77 will come with the full set (that means everyone will end up with some extras right)?

What about those of us who ordered ISO boards? Will we still receive the base set + extra ISO keys for our specific language or will it just be the base kit with the select ANSI keys replaced by specific ISO? What about those who ordered boards in the split shift layout? Will there be the correct split shift caps in the order?

I assume if I want to buy stuff like the numrow with front print, it will cost extra right? Have you got any idea in terms of costs for those extra caps?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 16 July 2017, 16:10:18
Yes you get the full set for ANSI orders. 

The international sets will just have the full ~103 key international key set that was ordered, no ANSI-only keys.  Yes the split shift caps will be correct.

Here is the store item for F1 printed front row keys:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/front-printed-keys-f1-etc/
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: duynguyenle on Sun, 16 July 2017, 16:45:17
Yes you get the full set for ANSI orders. 

The international sets will just have the full ~103 key international key set that was ordered, no ANSI-only keys.  Yes the split shift caps will be correct.

Here is the store item for F1 printed front row keys:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/front-printed-keys-f1-etc/

Perfect thank you for the clarification. When buying these front-printed F row keys, can we specify which language to get? (because each flavour of ISO has quite a different number row)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 16 July 2017, 16:59:33
Yes please do specify.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: bthezebra on Sun, 16 July 2017, 17:22:01
Ellipse do the blue ESC and ENTER noveltykeys just come extra for free or is there a way to add them to the blue ssk kit?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 16 July 2017, 17:24:50
Extra blue keys are $3 each outside of the Industrial SSK Blue key set.  You can add them using the store item "$1 increments."
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: pixelpusher on Mon, 17 July 2017, 00:29:58
reececonrad here is the proposed summary of the key options:  http://imgur.com/a/WR7h4

You'd be getting the full XT quality base set (the top half of the first photo)

Extra blue keys are $3 each outside of the Industrial SSK Blue key set.  You can add them using the store item "$1 increments."

Thanks, this makes more sense now  :thumb:  I'm going to add the blue extra keys.  I would like the blue Esc and Enter keys.  Should I just enter 6 for "Special keys/other" and specify what caps I want in the notes field?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Atredl on Mon, 17 July 2017, 00:42:40
reececonrad here is the proposed summary of the key options:  http://imgur.com/a/WR7h4

You'd be getting the full XT quality base set (the top half of the first photo)

I ordered an extra full set of blue XT keycaps, do I need to add anything to my order to make sure that I get blue HHKB caps as well?

Edit: Actually, I think that I already chose the option to get the HHKB keys with my extra blue set. Follow up question, are the Pebble/beige HHKB keys included when ordering a F62?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Mon, 17 July 2017, 01:51:59
While we wait on the factory and some photos from me, I was wondering if we could discuss:

Where will you be using your brand new Model F keyboard?  What kind of work/activities will you be using it for most (writing, coding, gaming, etc.)?

Work is open plan so it's a little too noisy, unfortunately. Currently use my type-s at work so the HHKB style F62 would have been a perfect replacement, maybe one day when I have my own closed off office. So it's gonna be used as my home board for gaming and a little coding and graphic work primarily.

@Ellipse Congrats on the NPR interview!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Kavik on Mon, 17 July 2017, 10:01:43
I'm trying to gather interest to add an extra color of keycap to this GB. They'd be black dyesub on slightly lighter black caps. Sound off in this thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=90614.0) if you're interested.
Since this is intended to be part of the GB, I hope I don't cause any offense by posting in this thread.

I am interested in this, but I already ordered a blank black set. I'd want to swap my blank black set for this light black (dark gray?) printed set if I ordered it.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: futurecrime on Mon, 17 July 2017, 14:51:16
While we wait on the factory and some photos from me, I was wondering if we could discuss:

Where will you be using your brand new Model F keyboard?  What kind of work/activities will you be using it for most (writing, coding, gaming, etc.)?
'
I'm buying this without having tried buckling spring but assuming I'm gonna love it. If it's as wonderful as it sounds, it'll be on my desk at home, used for writing prose, lyrics, emails, GH posts and any further attempts at learning to code. Probably swapped out at night for something silenced though, for my partner's sake.  :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 17 July 2017, 21:15:37
Thanks atlas!  Atredl not sure what you mean - please PM me.

Just as a production recap for those catching up on the progress:
Production has finished on many of the components - the important components we are waiting on are the springs, key tooling, and inner assembly steel plate tooling.  We are still looking at end of year delivery for everyone.

The factory has agreed that if this month's corrected key molds do not meet quality standards, I will be going with the other factory to make the key molds.

The factory is also finishing up the corrected top inner assembly tooling this month.  Part of the tooling is a huge metal press curved to IBM's exact radius for the top inner assembly.  This will help ensure we reach IBM's exact standards. 

In the mean time as the keys are produced, assembly is expected to finish for everything except the keys.  That way the keys will not bottleneck the project timeline.  The factory expects to produce more of the spring attacher machines to speed things along.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Tue, 18 July 2017, 11:39:44
Thanks atlas!  Atredl not sure what you mean - please PM me.

Just as a production recap for those catching up on the progress:
Production has finished on many of the components - the important components we are waiting on are the springs, key tooling, and inner assembly steel plate tooling.  We are still looking at end of year delivery for everyone.

The factory has agreed that if this month's corrected key molds do not meet quality standards, I will be going with the other factory to make the key molds.

The factory is also finishing up the corrected top inner assembly tooling this month.  Part of the tooling is a huge metal press curved to IBM's exact radius for the top inner assembly.  This will help ensure we reach IBM's exact standards. 

In the mean time as the keys are produced, assembly is expected to finish for everything except the keys.  That way the keys will not bottleneck the project timeline.  The factory expects to produce more of the spring attacher machines to speed things along.


So supposing you do have to go with the other factory for keycaps, are they basically ready to go on your say so? I.e. they know what they are making, have all the technical files, even produced prototypes maybe, etc, and are just waiting for your say-so?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 18 July 2017, 18:32:45
No pancake, they need time for their engineers to design and then build the mold.  While they spend about 2 months to do that (if it comes to switching), to avoid bottlenecking production will continue with the inner assemblies and eventually assembly of everything except the keys.

I'm hoping the factory fixes their output - the keys look great, they are just off 0.5mm or less in some of the specifications but that makes all the difference for reliable functionality.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: TheInverseKey on Wed, 19 July 2017, 09:54:53
Is there a picture of the F77 Model F Keyboard with the "Right side block::0-9 and cursor keys"?
The reason being is that I am wondering if there is also secondary functions like "Print/ScrLock/Pause/Ins/Del etc"

Thanks
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 19 July 2017, 16:46:19
Yes here are the proposed layouts:  http://imgur.com/a/WR7h4

And yes you can configure secondary functions in the software if you need Print Screen/Scroll Lock/etc. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Atredl on Fri, 21 July 2017, 19:32:40
Hi Ellipse,

I sent you a PM a couple of days ago. Could you check it out?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 22 July 2017, 19:46:38
Replied - sorry for the delay!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 22 July 2017, 20:11:33
We reached $327,000 in orders!  As we wait for the big week at the factory coming up (where they evaluate the key molds for one last time and they work on the revised top inner assembly tooling), here are some project stats.

Still aiming for delivery in late Q4.

Keyboards ordered this month so far:  147

Keyboards:
F77   378
F62   203
Compact F77   89
Compact F62   53
Grand Total   723

Items:
Extra Flipper and Spring   2237
Extra Barrel   1460
4 Extra bumpers (free with full keyboard purchase)   202
Extra Plastic Stabilizer Insert for keys   170
Industrial SSK Blue Keys   109
Front-printed keys F1, etc.   101
FirstAidKit   101
Unprinted 1U key   89
HHKB 6 Key Set   37
Extra Set of Brand New Production XT-quality one-piece keys   56
Extra steel spacebar tabs (pair)   54
Extra inner foam (F62, F77, F62 split shift, F77 split shift, F107, F122)   49
Apple/Mac Command-Option Keys   46
Custom/Low Serial Number/Birthday   48
Extra F77 Case   36
Extra F62 Case - 'Kishsaver"   26
Extra PCB   5

Case Colors:
F77   
Color: Industrial Gray   187
Color: Off-White/Beige   131
Color: Black   52
Color: Silver Gray   3
Color: True Red   3
Color: Another color   2
F77 Total   378
F62   
Color: Off-White/Beige   102
Color: Industrial Gray   56
Color: Black   35
Color: True Red   8
Color: Another color   1
Color: Silver Gray   1
F62 Total   203
Compact F77   
Color: Black   58
Color: Regular Gray   30
Color: Industrial Gray   1
Compact F77 Total   89
Compact F62   
Color: Black   34
Color: Standard Gray   18
Color: Another color    1
Compact F62 Total   53
Grand Total   723

Installed Key Sets:
Keys: Regular printed key set (US/ANSI layout)   494
Keys: Black unprinted keys   81
Keys: Regular color blank keys (no lettering/legends)   61
Keys: International layout    48
Keys: Use your own keys   32
Keys: Blue printed key set (US/ANSI layout)   2
Keys: Regular printed key set (US/ANSI layout), Model M keys   1

Layouts:
ANSI Enter (default - horizontal Enter key)   353
HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and Split Backspace   177
HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and regular 2-unit wide backspace   125
ISO Enter (vertical enter and split Left Shift)   50
HHKB split right shift only, everything else ANSI Enter (default - horizontal Enter key)   5
HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and Split Backspace and short left shift   2
ANSI Enter (default - horizontal Enter key) and Split Backspace   2
HHKB split right shift only, everything else ANSI Enter   2
ISO Enter (vertical enter and split Left Shift) and HHKB-Style Split Right Shift   1
DVORAK with HHKB style split right shift   1
Regular printed key set (US/ANSI layout)   1
HHKB split right shift only with regular 2-unit wide backspace, with ISO Enter (vertical enter and split Left Shift)   1
ANSI (U.S. default - horizontal Enter key) with split right shift, split backspace, and HHKB keys but not HHKB layout   1
DVORAK layout; ANSI Enter (default - horizontal Enter key)   1
HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and regular 2-unit wide backspace, original position Ctrl and Caps lock keys   1
Grand Total   723

Extra bumper sets:
Bumper type: 2 Large rubber bumpers (left of photo) with screw and nut plus 2 dome (middle of photo)   56
Bumper type: 2 medium bumpers with threaded stud (second photo) + 2 other pictured bumpers (please specify in the notes)   45
Bumper type: 4 square   29
Bumper type: 4 dome (middle of photo)   18
Bumper type: 4 Cork   17
Bumper type: 2 dome (middle of photo) + 2 small cylindrical (bottom right)   16
Bumper type: 2 dome + 2 square   11
Bumper type: 2 square (top right)+2 small cylindrical (bottom right)   9
Bumper type: 2 medium bumpers with threaded stud (second photo) + 2 cylindrical bumpers   1
Grand Total   202

F77 Right Side Block
Print/ScrLock/Pause/Ins/Del etc. keys, cursor keys   280
0-9 and cursor keys   137
Blank(these menu choices just affect those buying keys)   49
0-9 and cursor keys, blue unprinted keys for 5 and 0   1
Grand Total   467
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: dante on Sat, 22 July 2017, 20:15:22
After production is wrapped up what will become of the molds/tooling?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 22 July 2017, 20:31:41
The molds will likely be scrapped unless I pay for the upkeep, and the tooling on the factory machines will be just reconfigured for their next customer once production ends.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: stoic-lemon on Sun, 23 July 2017, 01:00:41
The molds will likely be scrapped unless I pay for the upkeep, and the tooling on the factory machines will be just reconfigured for their next customer once production ends.

If that isn't incentive to get one now, I don't know what is.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Kavik on Sun, 23 July 2017, 10:47:03
723 keyboards + parts and different configurations... I do not envy you when it comes time to QC these. Even if you check 20 per day, that's over a month of QC! Good luck and thanks for your continued work on this.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 23 July 2017, 10:55:51
Yep it will take at least a month to test each one and get them out.  The factory will be doing most of the QC though, so I am just doing the final pass.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: user 18 on Sun, 23 July 2017, 19:10:51
What is the deadline to place an order?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 23 July 2017, 19:25:09
We are still in the early bird round user 18, you have some time.  The deadline is not yet set.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Jolly_Green_Giant on Sun, 23 July 2017, 20:44:49
Yes here are the proposed layouts:  http://imgur.com/a/WR7h4

And yes you can configure secondary functions in the software if you need Print Screen/Scroll Lock/etc. 

Just asking for some clarificaton on a few things:

1. if I order the F77 with keycaps, the full set of XT Quality Base Set comes with it? (of course, not including the F-Row, HHKB, Apple/Mac, and SSK kits)

2. Will the Mopar Blue Novelty set be added to the menu on https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/set-of-xt-quality-one-piece-keys/  ?

3. How do we order http://i.imgur.com/SC8TI3I.png if we're getting the F77 model? This set would basically cover any uses I would possibly have with the side keys!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 23 July 2017, 21:01:05
1.  Yes that is the proposed set.

2 and 3.  Each novelty key is $3 extra - please use the store item "$1 increments" for those.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 27 July 2017, 19:14:11
A mini update: 

1.  The factory is still working on the key molds for their last chance at making the keys to spec before I switch the key mold maker.

2.  The very first inner assembly samples from the updated tooling should be completed next week. 

3.  I am having the springs made in the US and am talking with some manufacturers here.  They have better spring equipment that can match IBM's tolerances for the springs, both in the dimensional and compression force aspects.  They will be evaluating the original spring samples next week, producing a batch of samples to full specifications, and if they meet my quality standards they will produce all the springs.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Latin00032 on Thu, 27 July 2017, 20:57:00
Ellipse, are you going to the nyc meetup next weekend?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: LightningXI on Thu, 27 July 2017, 22:17:12
Ellipse, are you going to the nyc meetup next weekend?

Here are the details for you, Ellipse:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/6p4ypv/nyc_mechanical_keyboard_meetup_august_5th_300pm/
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 28 July 2017, 17:09:51
Thanks for letting me know!  I will try to make it and bring some of the prototypes! 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: zacheadams on Fri, 28 July 2017, 19:18:45
Thanks for letting me know!  I will try to make it and bring some of the prototypes!

Can't wait to see you again - I'll try to get some pics of your boards/parts/etc this time!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Latin00032 on Fri, 28 July 2017, 21:37:20
Thanks for letting me know!  I will try to make it and bring some of the prototypes!

Can't wait to see you again - I'll try to get some pics of your boards/parts/etc this time!
If you can't make it, I'll take your boards with me.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 01 August 2017, 17:04:43
The factory let me know today that the updated keys and inner assembly steel plates meet my specifications!  They are just completing the finishing of these parts.

I will know for sure when they are in hand (they should be mailing me the parts soon).
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: zacheadams on Tue, 01 August 2017, 18:14:06
The factory let me know today that the updated keys and inner assembly steel plates meet my specifications!  They are just completing the finishing of these parts.

I will know for sure when they are in hand (they should be mailing me the parts soon).

!!!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Wed, 02 August 2017, 00:44:47
So hype!!!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: atlas3686 on Wed, 02 August 2017, 07:42:51
The factory let me know today that the updated keys and inner assembly steel plates meet my specifications!  They are just completing the finishing of these parts.

I will know for sure when they are in hand (they should be mailing me the parts soon).

Great news, getting hyped now :)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Pete on Wed, 02 August 2017, 23:44:20
Excitement intensifies!

(http://i.imgur.com/JcpAzBV.gif)
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: NathanA on Thu, 03 August 2017, 07:55:38
3. How do we order http://i.imgur.com/SC8TI3I.png if we're getting the F77 model? This set would basically cover any uses I would possibly have with the side keys!
Each novelty key is $3 extra - please use the store item "$1 increments" for those.
Ellipse,

If I am not mistaken, the only keys that don't exist in the full keyset to make F77 layout #3 possible are a gray 1U '+' and a gray 1U 'Enter' (symbol).  Right?

So if I ordered F77 right-side layout #2 but actually want #3 (which was never offered on the order form), all I have to do is order those 2 keys at $3/ea from you, and you will in fact print them and ship them?  (I understand they would come separately in the box and I would have to swap them, arrange the other keys to my liking, and reprogram the controller.)

Thanks,

-- Nathan
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: laden3 on Thu, 03 August 2017, 09:42:09
How do we track our orders?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Thu, 03 August 2017, 17:44:13
Someone sent me a description and comparison video of an interesting grease-style Model F/M mod that seems to eliminate the plate/spring reverberation/tizz but keep much of the click sound.  For those who don't like ping but like the click in their buckling spring keyboards.  I have not tried this out myself and it is probably irreversible. 

He "put a tiny amount of Synco Superlube on the inside of the spring with a metal probe...just enough to dampen the vibration."

laden3 all the keyboards are still in production and delivery is expected around year end.  I will send out tracking numbers when each order ships.

Nathan I think you are correct on all points.  Please do specify the legends and colors on each of the extras you'd like.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: NathanA on Fri, 04 August 2017, 08:18:17
Someone sent me a description and comparison video of an interesting grease-style Model F/M mod that seems to eliminate the plate/spring reverberation/tizz but keep much of the click sound.  For those who don't like ping but like the click in their buckling spring keyboards.

Sounds similar to an official IBM product called "Soft Touch" (which they're undoubtedly trying to reproduce), where they covered the springs with a grease or some kind of silicon: http://clickykeyboards.com/product/1994-ibm-model-m-soft-touch-8184692-manufactured-for-ibm-by-lexmark-10-mar-94/ (http://clickykeyboards.com/product/1994-ibm-model-m-soft-touch-8184692-manufactured-for-ibm-by-lexmark-10-mar-94/)

...anyway: who would want that?? ;)


Nathan I think you are correct on all points.  Please do specify the legends and colors on each of the extras you'd like.
Awesome; thanks.  Just submitted an order addendum.  I didn't think you were interested in doing "custom" keys so this caught me by surprise.  Perhaps you are only interested in doing relatively simple custom ones (a single legend, no top+bottom or side/front printing, no legends that don't exist) or ones that > 1 person might request?  I kept my latest order simple (restricted to what was discussed here) but if you are willing to do more, let me know because I definitely have specific requests. ;)

-- Nathan
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Fri, 04 August 2017, 15:14:10
For now the only custom keys available are the ones from Zed's post (also here:  http://imgur.com/a/WR7h4 ).  I don't want to delay anything with additional custom requests but I may be able to do custom keys during the final round once I have shipped all current orders.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: NathanA on Fri, 04 August 2017, 17:06:54
For now the only custom keys available are the ones from Zed's post (also here:  http://imgur.com/a/WR7h4 ).  I don't want to delay anything with additional custom requests but I may be able to do custom keys during the final round once I have shipped all current orders.
Perfectly reasonable; thanks.  I have also been looking more closely into Hajime Nakazato's Etsy operation, and will likely reach out to him once the XT font is released.

-- Nathan
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sat, 05 August 2017, 18:08:12
Nice meeting everyone who attended the NYC keyboard meetup today!  Over 150 people were there.  I brought 3 of the new Model F keyboards.  There were a DVORAK user who reached over 120 WPM on the new Model F today!  And thanks again Latin00032 for telling me about the meetup!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Latin00032 on Sat, 05 August 2017, 18:39:32
Nice meeting everyone who attended the NYC keyboard meetup today!  Over 150 people were there.  I brought 3 of the new Model F keyboards.  There were a DVORAK user who reached over 120 WPM on the new Model F today!  And thanks again Latin00032 for telling me about the meetup!
Thanks for let me try your boards again!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: bciamny on Sun, 06 August 2017, 00:30:59
Nice meeting everyone who attended the NYC keyboard meetup today!  Over 150 people were there.  I brought 3 of the new Model F keyboards.  There were a DVORAK user who reached over 120 WPM on the new Model F today!  And thanks again Latin00032 for telling me about the meetup!
Thanks for let me try your boards again!

also met ellipse and had a chance to try out his boards today. they are definitely unique and model f hype seems justified. i was originally leaning to the slim cases but seeing (and feeling) the heft of the new aluminum chasis has me thinking to order the retro. ellipse mentioned that you can still get in on ordering if you're interested!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Latin00032 on Sun, 06 August 2017, 08:56:02
Before I forget, I remembered the thing for the case texture.

Try googling "light orange peel".

That is what I think the texture is for these cases.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: bthezebra on Sun, 06 August 2017, 13:06:36
Before I forget, I remembered the thing for the case texture.

Try googling "light orange peel".

That is what I think the texture is for these cases.
"Light orange peel" is how the old school cases would be described? That sounds interesting. How did the finished aluminum cases look? I wish I could have seen and felt them in person!

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Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Sun, 06 August 2017, 20:24:31
Yes Latin00032 that looks about right!

The finished aluminum cases are hard anodized with a smooth finish - they are not powdercoated.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 07 August 2017, 16:17:56
Any interest in custom anodized blue as an ultra compact case premium color option?  A few people could split the $500 tooling charge.  A major YouTube reviewer was asking about getting a loaner in that case color.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: bthezebra on Mon, 07 August 2017, 16:30:52
What color blue is planned, a lighter or darker shade? Maybe a sample to see?

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Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Atredl on Mon, 07 August 2017, 16:47:50
Any interest in custom anodized blue as an ultra compact case premium color option?  A few people could split the $500 tooling charge.  A major YouTube reviewer was asking about getting a loaner in that case color.
I wasn't getting an ultra compact but I would if it was blue. What shade of blue are we talking about?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: NathanA on Mon, 07 August 2017, 20:19:49
A major YouTube reviewer was asking about getting a loaner in that case color.
Please tell me that it is chyros (https://www.youtube.com/user/Chyrosran22).

-- Nathan
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 07 August 2017, 20:23:38
Not sure - any recommendations on shades of blue?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: bthezebra on Mon, 07 August 2017, 21:13:19
I'm on mobile but looking at some blues, I think either a sky blue or a sea blue would compliment the industrial ssk modifiers really well.

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Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Atredl on Tue, 08 August 2017, 12:50:15
I could go for a Navy blue or a True blue.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Wed, 09 August 2017, 18:20:33
The US factory spring wire samples arrived today and they look great!  Almost identical in appearance to the original spring samples. 

Almost none of the US based spring factories had the equipment to manufacture springs to IBM's 1980s tolerances and automatically discard all springs that do not meet the tolerances (this one does!).  Some US factories could only meet 4x IBM's original tolerances!

The factory said that these springs' tolerances are as tight as those of their aerospace customers.

I will be ordering sample springs this week for evaluation and then if they are good I will order all the springs from this factory - everyone will get the US-made springs.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Kavik on Wed, 09 August 2017, 18:33:19
The US factory spring wire samples arrived today and they look great!  Almost identical in appearance to the original spring samples. 

Almost none of the US based spring factories had the equipment to manufacture springs to IBM's 1980s tolerances and automatically discard all springs that do not meet the tolerances (this one does!).  Some US factories could only meet 4x IBM's original tolerances!

The factory said that these springs' tolerances are as tight as those of their aerospace customers.

I will be ordering sample springs this week for evaluation and then if they are good I will order all the springs from this factory - everyone will get the US-made springs.

Wow, really cool that this factory seems to have got it right so fast. Hopefully, they feel as good as the originals too!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 14 August 2017, 19:52:31
Here is the latest web site update post - I ordered the sample springs today from the US factory.

The main theme continues – it was tougher than the factories and I expected to meet IBM’s exacting standards and tolerances from 35 years ago.

Instead of delivering functional keyboards and meeting the original factory timeline (I’ve been typing on the fully working prototypes without issue this year), I want to make sure these keyboards live up to the quality standards of the originals for the clickiest, most musical typing experience possible, even at the cost of time (rejecting parts) until these standards are met. Eventually they have been met for the other critical parts, many of which finished production and are waiting in boxes at the factory for assembly (tens of thousands of barrels/flippers, the die cast zinc cases, capacitive PCBs, controllers, custom IDE/floppy style ribbon cables have finished production).  Check out a few blog posts back for a detailed production update by part.

Dimensions on the keys that are off by just 0.5mm do not function well (I received the latest key samples this week). Spring free length variances are too large for a more consistent feel.

I cancelled the spring contract last month due to poor part tolerances and I expect to cancel the key mold contract as well and move it to another manufacturer this month. While this is going on I will have assembly start on the rest of the components to avoid any bottlenecking so we keep on schedule.

The springs are going to be made in the US. Almost none of the US-based spring factories had the equipment to manufacture springs to IBM’s 1980s tolerances and automatically discard all springs that do not meet the tolerances (at least one does – the one I am working with). Some US factories could only meet 4x IBM’s original tolerances!

The factory said that these springs’ tolerances are as tight as those of their aerospace customers.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: PancakeMSTR on Mon, 14 August 2017, 20:20:09
So, ETA? How long will it take to get the keycaps done now? It's gotta be months.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 14 August 2017, 20:31:52
Still looking at around end of year. 
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Giorgio on Mon, 14 August 2017, 23:00:44
 Sorry for my curiosity, probably it has been already said, but why unicomp wasn't chosen for the keys?
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Mon, 14 August 2017, 23:18:09
Giorgio we are ordering brand new one piece molds matching the quality of IBM's XT keys.  Unicomp does not offer this.  We are also custom making molds for special keys like the 1.75U non-stepped shift/caps lock keys.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Giorgio on Tue, 15 August 2017, 03:25:00
Giorgio we are ordering brand new one piece molds matching the quality of IBM's XT keys.  Unicomp does not offer this.  We are also custom making molds for special keys like the 1.75U non-stepped shift/caps lock keys.

Ah! I thought that at least for the keys they were on par with old IBM, since they use their equipment!

You're making a great effort with this project, and I'm happy that many people have followed you. I'm actually searching for an old model m, to understand how much I like buckling springs. Probably I'll join in the next rounds!
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ramiel on Tue, 15 August 2017, 21:30:18
Is it possible I can get my kit earlier without the springs. I didn't order the keys and I can use the springs from my model M.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Kavik on Tue, 15 August 2017, 21:33:56
Is it possible I can get my kit earlier without the springs. I didn't order the keys and I can use the springs from my model M.

Do you have Model F flippers? If not, you'll still need the flippers and springs. Plus you'd have to break your Model M apart to get them anyway.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ellipse on Tue, 15 August 2017, 21:35:40
Sorry I will not be shipping out incomplete or untested keyboards.  We are still waiting on production to finish on some of the parts.
Title: Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
Post by: Ramiel on Wed, 16 August 2017, 08:47:05
Is it possible I can get my kit earlier without the springs. I didn't order the keys and I can use the springs from my model M.

Do you have Model F flippers? If not, you'll still need the flippers and springs. Plus you'd have to break your Model M apart to get them anyway.
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