Author Topic: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards  (Read 658511 times)

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Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2750 on: Thu, 04 February 2021, 13:56:46 »
cods - sent a reply over PM

Dye sub update:  the very first production sublimated key sets have shipped!  Here's the factory report on the current shipment:

Approved production sets:
Base sets: 201
HKKB sets: 202
MAC sets: 203
0 Ins 1U key (included on F77 keyboards configured with a printed new Model F key set): 225 keys

B STOCK - Old artwork/non-approved alignment:
Base sets: 50
HKKB and MAC sets: 25 each

As noted earlier the purpose of selling the B Stock is to cover the thousands of dollars in additional costs related to dye sub and express shipping of sublimated keys, so it will be sold at higher cost than a good quality set.  The benefit is that you get a shipping priority (get your B Stock key set/sets months earlier) and you help support the project a little more through helping to cover the cost overruns.  I think allowing some people the option to help the project a little more helps avoid having to pass along price increases across the board (pun intended!).  Same thing with pricing accessories and extra key sets higher to keep the base keyboard price as close to the original price as possible. 

B Stock keys are all sold as is, with sublimation defects (non-approved, noticeably off alignment for some keys, slightly thicker/bolder artwork).

Please email me if interested - pricing for the regular ANSI US key set will be a $30 premium per set to the regular $69 price ($99 total per set).  Shipping costs just for keys and any other small in stock accessories will be free in the US, $16 in Canada and $20 worldwide.  The HHKB and Mac sets will have an $11 premium ($35 total) and have the same shipping costs.  And as noted before, no one can order any of the production sets in this batch for immediate shipment - they are all going to those who have been waiting.

After the keys are in hand I can start taking orders for the B stock. 

Starting now with this post, I will be taking reservations for B Stock by email (not by PM or forum post) - first come first served for the 50 sets - will be based on email received timestamp.  Please let me know the number of sets of each type that you will be ordering.

To keep things (relatively!) simple, upgrades of previous key set orders are not available - has to be a new order.
« Last Edit: Fri, 05 February 2021, 01:05:23 by Ellipse »

Offline euphxenos

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2751 on: Fri, 05 February 2021, 00:55:04 »
There used to be a spreadsheet that showed the serial numbers for the keyboards in our orders.  I made a note of the serial number of my keyboard, but I can't seem to find the spreadsheet anymore.  Could someone please point me at it?

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2752 on: Fri, 05 February 2021, 01:04:25 »
sorry the serials are being constantly updated and the posted list is no longer available or accurate.  Everyone will find out their serial(s) when the order arrives!  It's also printed on the dot matrix invoices and the labels on the product boxes. 

Someone did ask me for a list of the remaining low serial numbers 50 and under so I posted an update about availability of custom/low serials on the latest blog post on the project web site - it is copied below:


Thank you to those who have supported the project a little extra by considering a low serial addon – it is much appreciated to help cover the tens of thousands of dollars of project cost overruns and get your keyboard far faster. Feel free to add this on to a previous order to upgrade it to low serial (you can choose free shipping on this order if it’s just for the serial number upgrade).

There are different levels of low serial, ranging from single digit serials, to 10-50 range of serials, to other low serials 51 and higher.  The standard $39 option (the same as the option to have a low serial when configuring the keyboards) allows for requests 51 and higher.  Other options can be selected by picking the single digit serial or 10-50 serial.  It is ok to upgrade from the $39 option you chose to the $99 option using the store item $1 increments to make up the difference.

All low/custom serial options allow the option to request a custom date / year that will go on the product label.  A birthday, birthdate (with birth year!), or anniversary are all possibilities to consider.  You can send a list of preferred serials in priority order, up to 7 digits.

The below list is of available serials as of last week.  The list is not updated constantly and if you order any low serial option I cannot guarantee you will receive your requested serial; you may be assigned an available serial.

Remaining single digit serial numbers:

Classic Case F77 – SOLD OUT
Classic Case F62 – SOLD OUT
Compact F77 – 1
Compact F62 – 9
Classic Case F77
10
17
19

Classic Case F62
14
40
41

Compact Case F77
1
5
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
17
18
20
21
43

Compact Case F62
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
27
43
44
45
46
47
48
50

Offline darkcruix

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2753 on: Sat, 06 February 2021, 17:48:41 »
As part of the Model F Technical Manual Project, I am working on a table that contains the connectors, protocols and language sets of the variants. I have collected most of the data, but I can't figure out the details for some models, like our beloved 4704 Models. What I have so far is shown below, I would like to understand the protocol of the 4704 with its original controller. I hope someone can help.
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Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2754 on: Sat, 06 February 2021, 18:40:41 »
Hasu's descriptions might be able to help - Hasu made a 4704 converter that uses the original 4704 controllers.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54706.0

Offline sam123456

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2755 on: Sat, 06 February 2021, 20:19:49 »
Are white/pearl keys the only ones that are being printed right now, or are all colors of keys now being printed?

Asking for a friend who ordered an an F77 with a set of standard keys and also a set of blue ones and a custom/low serial number last July (note: I'm actually just asking for myself).

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2756 on: Sat, 06 February 2021, 22:26:24 »
No keys are being sublimated currently as everyone is on CNY break.  When they return in a few weeks, sublimation will resume.  A whole team at the factory is required to run the sublimation process including inspection and quality control.  Each key set is inspected by more than one person as an extra precaution.

It may take several months more to get out the rest of the orders.  The priority is the standard color pearl/pebble full sets first, and then the other sets (this was noted at the start of offering the additional colors).  They have figured out how to ramp up production efficiently and expect production up to about ~180 jigs' worth of sets per day (main set + two accessory sets for example), so it will take several months to finish sublimation of the thousands of key sets and keys ordered so far.

The fastest way to get your keyboard is to request the separate shipping option detailed on the project web site blog, and have other keys or order blank keys to use in the mean time.

Offline darkcruix

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2757 on: Sun, 07 February 2021, 12:04:13 »
Hasu's descriptions might be able to help - Hasu made a 4704 converter that uses the original 4704 controllers.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54706.0

Huge thanks!
I have incorporated the info into the Appendix as I feel it is something that people would search and like to have in a single location. The excerpt of the Appendix has been attached here. As always, the Technical Reference is worked on constantly and can be downloaded from: https://www.bucklingspring.com

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2758 on: Tue, 09 February 2021, 13:38:48 »
The key sets have arrived and they look great! It is great to say that finally, printed XT quality new Model F key sets will be shipping out starting tomorrow! More photos and scans of key sets to be posted later this week.

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Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2759 on: Thu, 11 February 2021, 17:03:21 »
All but two of the "all in stock" single digit and early bird tooling supporter orders for keyboards and new Model F key sets have shipped out!

Next up are the earliest low/custom serials with all orders' contents in stock.

Below are photos of the very first keyboards with the sublimated new Model F key sets to go out, along with the inner assemblies moved to other case colors for the purposes of photographing additional keyboard variations.

The key sets came out even better than expected!  So good that I have decided to sell off two spare original IBM F107 key sets on eBay in the coming weeks because I believe the new sets are of better quality.

All this week's photos are available in the continually updated imgur album of keyboard variations - a selection of these photos is below.  The imgur album has the full res photos:  https://imgur.com/a/gw8FOl0

The layouts in the photos include F62 Split Right Shift and Split Backspace, F77 ANSI with 0-9 and Cursor keys, and F77 ANSI with Ins/Del/etc. keys and cursor keys.  Case colors shown include Off-White/Beige, Industrial Gray, Black, and Silver/Blue Gray.

« Last Edit: Sat, 13 February 2021, 01:55:34 by Ellipse »

Offline pixelpusher

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2760 on: Thu, 11 February 2021, 17:39:36 »
woohoo!  I might get mine soon!

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2761 on: Thu, 11 February 2021, 19:18:40 »
And below is a high resolution scan of the new Model F sublimated keys on my Epson V700, along with a detailed crop of the same image to show the quality.

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Offline profanum429

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2762 on: Thu, 11 February 2021, 19:27:33 »
Looks really good! I'm looking forward to my B set to hold me over until my A stock set arrives in hopefully the next few months :)

Offline Arcoril

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2763 on: Thu, 11 February 2021, 19:38:02 »
Those legends look really good!

Also, I added a set of blue industrial keys to my order when I initially placed it. Will that end up delaying my keyboard shipment?

Offline chiefmatex

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2764 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 04:01:11 »
hi, i must have missed it but what is the current lead time for a new order, say placed today? thanks in advance

Offline Arkku

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2765 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 08:45:20 »
Looking good! In fact, so good that I'm considering ordering a second keyboard before even receiving the first…

One question, though: are ISO keysets being printed, or are those left until later?

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2766 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 12:27:35 »
Arcoril and Arkku   - I am first shipping whatever is 100% in stock for what someone ordered.  For those who ordered the low serial right after the product launch, ordered regular US printed keys, and ordered another key set not in stock, then your order would ship after everything is available.  To keep things simple I am not doing any "split split" shipping, where some printed keys ship and other printed keys ship later.  To maximize the number of sets completed before CNY, the factory printed only one group of keys in the few days remaining before Chinese New Year break.  When they return in a few weeks, sublimation of all the various key sets and colors will ramp up at some point, though not right away upon returning.  Not to worry, it won't make much difference in the wait times because it looks like every single key set ordered will be able to be completed in about two months of production time (they estimate production capacity of about 180 jigs' worth of key sets per day, with each jig being a full key set and a couple extra sets).

chiefmatex - responded to your PM
« Last Edit: Sat, 13 February 2021, 19:19:27 by Ellipse »

Offline chiefmatex

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2767 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 19:13:06 »
chiefmatex - responded to your PM

thank you! now corresponding via email/pm. cheers

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2768 on: Sat, 13 February 2021, 19:20:20 »
Shipping update:  For the printed key sets, tracking numbers have been sent out for all of the "all in stock" custom/low serials with the separate shipping option (keyboard shipped previously)!  Total of 31 people's orders. 

This coming week and next week the remaining "all in stock" custom/low serials that did not choose separate shipping (I'll be shipping keyboard+keys etc.) should go out.  Total of ~82 keyboards.  As noted before, these will go out in sequence of the date that someone's earliest keyboard was ordered. 

Then the B stock orders should go out (there are still some B stock key sets remaining if anyone's interested in helping cover the dye sub cost overruns - see the "extra set of keys" store item for details). 

After that, assuming there are a minimal number of low serial upgrades of "all in stock" orders if someone wants to get one of the remaining key sets in the first batch, there should be a number of key sets remaining so that the earliest non-custom/low serial key sets can start going out, both those shipping with keyboards as well as just the keys shipping, if the separate shipping option was chosen.

On an unrelated note, below is a report of the number of keyboards each person has ordered, as of a few days ago.  For privacy reasons I have hidden the numbers for a number of those who have purchased more than 5 keyboards.  It is interesting that quite a few people have ordered 3, 4, 5, and more than 5 keyboards.  Some people have told me they purchased the keyboards specifically to keep new in box and to sell down the line, or to resell an "in stock" keyboard locally in another country, in their company's online store.

# KB's   # People ordering that quantity of keyboard
>5          #
5            3
4            15
3            27
2            222
1            2107




Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2769 on: Sun, 14 February 2021, 14:22:09 »
I am trying to determine the "official" naming of the keys especially for the terminal / symbol keys, most of which are being made available to get through the below link.

Not sure if IBM had a reference document on this or if there is another source.  Any ideas?

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/new-custom-legend-keycaps/

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2770 on: Tue, 16 February 2021, 22:36:40 »
Shipping update - all of the "all in stock" single digit and custom/low serial 2016 orders that can ship out, have shipped out, including one ordered by Lazy Game Reviews!  Next up is 2017.  As always please do email me if your address has changed.

We are about 1-2 weeks away from the arrival of the second container ship!  It is currently at sea.

Online LightningXI

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2771 on: Wed, 17 February 2021, 09:34:58 »
I can't wait to get my dyesub caps, hopefully soon! Thanks for the updates, Ellipse!

Offline Maledicted

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2772 on: Wed, 17 February 2021, 10:37:52 »
Shipping update - all of the "all in stock" single digit and custom/low serial 2016 orders that can ship out, have shipped out, including one ordered by Lazy Game Reviews!  Next up is 2017.  As always please do email me if your address has changed.

We are about 1-2 weeks away from the arrival of the second container ship!  It is currently at sea.

Of course Clint would have ordered one.
« Last Edit: Wed, 17 February 2021, 10:44:00 by Maledicted »

Offline nathanchere

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2773 on: Wed, 17 February 2021, 11:35:11 »
Shipping update - all of the "all in stock" single digit and custom/low serial 2016 orders that can ship out, have shipped out, including one ordered by Lazy Game Reviews!  Next up is 2017.  As always please do email me if your address has changed.

We are about 1-2 weeks away from the arrival of the second container ship!  It is currently at sea.

That's the "early birds" right?  :)) :)) :))

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2774 on: Wed, 17 February 2021, 17:35:10 »
The new Model F project keyboards are going out to 51 countries so far (including the US)!  Here are the international orders by country code per ISO 3166, ranked by order value:


United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (the)
Canada
Germany
Australia
Sweden
Netherlands (the)
Japan
Norway
Switzerland
Hong Kong
Finland
France
Singapore
Malaysia
Austria
Korea (the Republic of)
Poland
Czechia
New Zealand
China
Denmark
Spain
Italy
Ireland
Thailand
Romania
Russian Federation (the)
Brazil
Belgium
Taiwan (Province of China)
Saudi Arabia
Slovenia
Bulgaria
Philippines (the)
Luxembourg
Israel
Mexico
Chile
Argentina
Estonia
Viet Nam
Hungary
Croatia
Oman
Serbia
Peru
India
Turkey
South Africa
Iceland

Offline iMav

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2775 on: Sat, 20 February 2021, 17:22:45 »
Patiently awaiting my two 'boards.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2776 on: Sat, 20 February 2021, 17:57:25 »
Hi iMav - your two keyboards are on the container ship currently at sea!  Should be arriving and delivered to me in the next couple weeks!

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2777 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 21:14:34 »
More new Model F keyboards with the new dye sublimated keycaps continue to go out. I'm now going through 2019 "all in stock" custom/low serial orders - all prior ones have gone out.

Below are photos of the standard US ANSI layout, and the Apple/Mac Command/Option 6 key sets (the factory sent the US, Mac 6 key, and HHKB 6 key sets as part of the first small batch).

These are the first photos of all these variations with the new Model F caps installed.

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« Last Edit: Mon, 22 February 2021, 22:14:31 by Ellipse »

Offline jterp7

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2778 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 21:23:02 »
What would be the eta on an order today? April/May?

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2779 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 22:45:04 »
ETA has become one of the most popular questions in recent months, more so than I would have expected but still a fair question, given the factory delays over past years (that have all been resolved). 

jterp7 the factory is working as quickly as possible to help finish up so I can get out the rest of the orders. 
« Last Edit: Tue, 23 February 2021, 00:11:30 by Ellipse »

Offline euphxenos

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2780 on: Tue, 23 February 2021, 00:04:52 »
If a prospective customer talks to those of us who've been waiting for our orders since 2017 and are still waiting, do you think maybe you can see why they'd be concerned about whether you can deliver in a timely manner?  I'm concerned about whether or not you have enough funds to fulfill the orders you already have with what has already been paid to you, or whether you're dependent on receiving additional orders to pay for the orders you haven't shipped yet.  Yes, I am worried that I've been waiting for almost four years and might not ever receive my keyboard.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2781 on: Tue, 23 February 2021, 00:37:21 »
Not sure if you've been following the project updates but production finished on thousands of keyboards and the first batch of keyboards was delivered to me in November 2019.  The keyboards in stock are waiting to be sent out once the dye sublimation is finished, for those who want all items ordered to be delivered at once.  The factory needed more time to fix some QC-related issues and finish assembly with the second batch, and that one went out last month by container ship and is being delivered to me soon.

As noted before, the project has the funds to see every order through, including dye sublimation of the keys. 

So far more than 700 keyboards have shipped and if anyone did not want to wait for the keys they ordered, their keyboard could have been mailed early with the separate shipping option introduced last year, if their keyboard was one of the models I listed as in stock (right now essentially all classic case models are still in stock, except black/True Red/Silver Gray F62 and True Red F77). 

This separate shipping option is still available.  Your keyboard can certainly go out in the next couple weeks if you wanted the separate shipping option (anyone interested, feel free to discuss with me over email/PM).

Offline gbchk

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2782 on: Tue, 23 February 2021, 10:41:17 »
What's the status on the industrial blue keycaps? As far as I know that's the only thing holding my order up now.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2783 on: Tue, 23 February 2021, 11:08:39 »
gbchk as a note, only ~200 key sets of three types (US ANSI, Mac, and HHKB 6 key sets) have been received so far, so nearly everyone is still waiting on all their key sets. 

The remaining US ANSI key sets, other language/color sets, specialty sets (like Industrial SSK 12 key sets), and extra keys are all going to be made at the factory starting soon after their return later this month from Chinese New Year break.  As noted earlier, they expect production lead times to be about two months to finish the remaining keys.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2784 on: Thu, 25 February 2021, 12:34:48 »
Someone sent me an ingenious layout modification with the HHKB style split right shift - did not think this was possible!  Using the full 2.75U right shift key on the HHKB style split right shift board, with one key to the right of the shift key.  Posting their photos with their permission:

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Offline profanum429

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2785 on: Thu, 25 February 2021, 23:15:56 »
Posted this elsewhere, but damn, if this is B stock, I can't wait to get my A stock also! These B stock caps showed up today, loving them.


Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2786 on: Wed, 03 March 2021, 10:27:31 »
The most recent update summary has been posted on the project web site blog:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/blog/

Includes a note on the next batch of sublimated keys as well as a second container shipment update:

The second container ship arrived at port and delivery is being arranged for some point in the next week or so. Container shipping demand has skyrocketed in recent months, along with delays. Normally shipping is about 45-55 days but it’s much longer nowadays – a little over three months including shipping and processing time, making arrangements, etc.

I have been preparing to send out all of the “all in stock” keyboards from the second container shipment (first the custom/low serials and then the remaining all in stock orders).

Offline darkcruix

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2787 on: Wed, 03 March 2021, 16:20:44 »
I have received the keycap kit as well. Except the Option/Alt Key and the Num-Pad is now original!!! And they feel so smooth... Wow... Especially the Shift keys are a world apart from the Model M variants I had before.
The printing is soooo sharp and the print is .... Wow

Offline dc_in_sf

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2788 on: Thu, 04 March 2021, 11:47:20 »
I have received the keycap kit as well. Except the Option/Alt Key and the Num-Pad is now original!!! And they feel so smooth... Wow... Especially the Shift keys are a world apart from the Model M variants I had before.
The printing is soooo sharp and the print is .... Wow

What are the LED's for? Is there support on the controller for LEDs?

Offline darkcruix

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2789 on: Thu, 04 March 2021, 11:52:36 »
Absolutely - have a look at the Technical Manual at https://www.bucklingspring.com. In section 4 (4.11 Expansion Header) you'll find all details. In my case I have it configured to show me the different layers.

Offline dc_in_sf

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2790 on: Thu, 04 March 2021, 12:07:11 »
Absolutely - have a look at the Technical Manual at https://www.bucklingspring.com. In section 4 (4.11 Expansion Header) you'll find all details. In my case I have it configured to show me the different layers.

Thanks!

I do like have LEDs available for showing layer state, may have to look at doing this mod.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2791 on: Mon, 08 March 2021, 18:24:58 »
It is an honor that Clint from Lazy Game Reviews has posted a video!


I saw the video and have included my replies below as well as in the YouTube comments section.

Do people prefer Fn between Left Ctrl and Left Alt? I use the GUI key a lot in order to open programs.

Also someone mentioned the ability to have more than one layout programmed with QMK, in order to switch layouts. Is that something that's easy to do? Wondering if I could program one as the default (say if someone chooses 0-9 and cursor keys) and then with a key combination the user can switch to the layout with the Ins/Del/etc. right side block.

My comments below:

I thought I'd reply with some of my thoughts on the points in the video.

As a general note I am pretty open to feedback from everyone - just send over a message! The goal of the project is to make the Model F experience as fun as possible, despite the quirks of setting up and using the new or original Model F keyboards.

Industrial Gray color - IBM colors seemed to vary slightly over time. The IBM Industrial Gray color selected for the project is matched to an original IBM Industrial SSK, part 1395682 - the case bottom was sent to the factory so they could custom mix the color since an exact Pantone type match could not be found. There are other IBM Industrial Gray colors that are less olive and more neutral gray, including an IBM Industrial Gray XT type keyboard. I would describe the Industrial SSK gray as a gray-green-tan type color.

Yep you certainly deserve serial 0 thanks to your support of the project - the serials start at 0 for each of the keyboard models. You have the first production serial! I am glad that this keyboard will be in your rotation of keyboards, even if it is not a daily driver!

Some springs not seated properly during the unboxing: unfortunately sometimes a few springs move out of place as these keyboards are bounced around in shipping - hope it did not take too much time for you to adjust the Enter key and space bar. My recommendation to everyone is to check out the project manual for the key installation video (of which a quick clip was shown in your video). Holding the keyboard vertically, space bar end up is the quickest way to successfully re-seat any of the keys.

Offline/standalone QMK configuration program - seems like a good idea. Hopefully the QMK folks can consider it.

The old xwhatsit firmware was problematic for a small but significant number of folks so we switched to QMK. QMK is currently in beta but will hopefully move to the main project soon.

Longwinded/not too clear documentation - yes you are correct! Hoping to improve this.

Keyboard feet - the stick on or screw on feet options allow for up to a 1 inch rise similar to the height of the other Model F keyboards, with other options for 1/8 inch, 1/4 inch, and 1/2 inch. Most people only ask for the cork but people can pick another set for free if they'd like - let me know if you wanted any of the other feet and I'll mail them to you.

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/extra-bumpers/

Regarding the default layout programming - there are a lot of good suggestions for better placement of the Fn key from where I put it in the default. Some people put it in the blank key to the left of the Up cursor key. I see how between Ctrl and Alt is also good to consider for certain key combinations with the left hand.

Regarding lack of additional keys for media editing and other types of work - agreed that the compact Model F keyboards are best for certain tasks but not for all tasks. I believe they are best for writing/typing, including long typing/programming sessions, and not as strong for gaming and work on other media.

Regarding outdated Q&A forum posts - thanks for letting me know about this. I just cleaned up some of the old Q&A posts related to the older stuff - hope this improves things. If anyone sees anything that's out of date I always appreciate a heads up so I can update it.
« Last Edit: Mon, 08 March 2021, 19:05:59 by Ellipse »

Offline dc_in_sf

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2792 on: Mon, 08 March 2021, 18:51:31 »
The Lazy Game Reviews video has been posted!


I saw the video and have included my replies below as well as in the YouTube comments section.

Do people prefer Fn between Left Ctrl and Left Alt? I use the GUI key a lot in order to open programs.

Also someone mentioned the ability to have more than one layout programmed with QMK, in order to switch layouts. Is that something that's easy to do? Wondering if I could program one as the default (say if someone chooses 0-9 and cursor keys) and then with a key combination the user can switch to the layout with the Ins/Del/etc. right side block.

My comments below:

I thought I'd reply with some of my thoughts on the points in the video.

As a general note I am pretty open to feedback from everyone - just send over a message! The goal of the project is to make the Model F experience as fun as possible, despite the quirks of setting up and using the new or original Model F keyboards.

Industrial Gray color - IBM colors seemed to vary slightly over time. The IBM Industrial Gray color selected for the project is matched to an original IBM Industrial SSK, part 1395682 - the case bottom was sent to the factory so they could custom mix the color since an exact Pantone type match could not be found. There are other IBM Industrial Gray colors that are less olive and more neutral gray, including an IBM Industrial Gray XT type keyboard. I would describe the Industrial SSK gray as a gray-green-tan type color.

Yep you certainly deserve serial 0 thanks to your support of the project - the serials start at 0 for each of the keyboard models. You have the first production serial! I am glad that this keyboard will be in your rotation of keyboards, even if it is not a daily driver!

Some springs not seated properly during the unboxing: unfortunately sometimes a few springs move out of place as these keyboards are bounced around in shipping - hope it did not take too much time for you to adjust the Enter key and space bar. My recommendation to everyone is to check out the project manual for the key installation video (of which a quick clip was shown in your video). Holding the keyboard vertically, space bar end up is the quickest way to successfully re-seat any of the keys.

Offline/standalone QMK configuration program - seems like a good idea. Hopefully the QMK folks can consider it.

The old xwhatsit firmware was problematic for a small but significant number of folks so we switched to QMK. QMK is currently in beta but will hopefully move to the main project soon.

Longwinded/not too clear documentation - yes you are correct! Hoping to improve this.

Keyboard feet - the stick on or screw on feet options allow for up to a 1 inch rise similar to the height of the other Model F keyboards, with other options for 1/8 inch, 1/4 inch, and 1/2 inch. Most people only ask for the cork but people can pick another set for free if they'd like - let me know if you wanted any of the other feet and I'll mail them to you.

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/extra-bumpers/

Regarding the default layout programming - there are a lot of good suggestions for better placement of the Fn key from where I put it in the default. Some people put it in the blank key to the left of the Up cursor key. I see how between Ctrl and Alt is also good to consider for certain key combinations with the left hand.

Regarding lack of additional keys for media editing and other types of work - agreed that the compact Model F keyboards are best for certain tasks but not for all tasks. I believe they are best for writing/typing, including long typing/programming sessions, and not as strong for gaming and work on other media.

Regarding outdated Q&A forum posts - thanks for letting me know about this. I just cleaned up some of the old Q&A posts related to the older stuff - hope this improves things. If anyone sees anything that's out of date I always appreciate a heads up so I can update it.

Interesting, the reviewer is definitely coming from a different place than many folk in the Mech KB community. The fact that the board had QMK support is what sold me on it in the end, but I can see how it is not the easiest thing to use if you are not deep into that aspect hobby.

You can make the F77 work with QMK VIA, which gives you the offline ability to configure the keyboard, but unfortunately there are some caveats at the moment.

The main fallback in VIA if the configuration gets borked it is wipe the EEPROM by holding the ESC key down during the keyboard initialization to trigger an EEPROM wipe, unfortunately the initialization phase of the keyboard is when the controller figures out how to read the keys, holding the key down results in the key not being calibrated properly to be read so the EEPROM wipe doesn't trigger.

There are other ways to fix issues with the EEPROM but they are not super customer friendly.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2793 on: Mon, 08 March 2021, 20:20:15 »
Update on solenoids:
Below are photos of the mounting hardware for the solenoids, along with photos showing the process to adjust the solenoid throw distance and securely mount the solenoid in any classic case (F62 or F77). These are included for free by default with all orders of solenoids - no need to request it.

Also included are two nylon washers so as to protect the case finish from the mounting screw. One washer goes between the top of the screw and the bottom of the case, and the other washer goes inside the case, between the case and the solenoid.

Offline audax989

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2794 on: Tue, 09 March 2021, 05:17:14 »
Update on solenoids:
Below are photos of the mounting hardware for the solenoids, along with photos showing the process to adjust the solenoid throw distance and securely mount the solenoid in any classic case (F62 or F77). These are included for free by default with all orders of solenoids - no need to request it.

Also included are two nylon washers so as to protect the case finish from the mounting screw. One washer goes between the top of the screw and the bottom of the case, and the other washer goes inside the case, between the case and the solenoid.

That's awesome!

Offline darkcruix

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2795 on: Tue, 09 March 2021, 07:59:43 »
...
You can make the F77 work with QMK VIA, which gives you the offline ability to configure the keyboard, but unfortunately there are some caveats at the moment.

The main fallback in VIA if the configuration gets borked it is wipe the EEPROM by holding the ESC key down during the keyboard initialization to trigger an EEPROM wipe, unfortunately the initialization phase of the keyboard is when the controller figures out how to read the keys, holding the key down results in the key not being calibrated properly to be read so the EEPROM wipe doesn't trigger.

There are other ways to fix issues with the EEPROM but they are not super customer friendly.

How are you getting it working with VIA? Admittedly, I haven't done a deep dive into it, yet, but:
I added VIA_ENABLE = yes to the rules.mk
and did a
#undef BOOTMAGIC_ENABLE
#undef BOOTMAGIC_LITE in config.h.
In the end, I am getting a ELF linking error - any more advices?

I am also in the process to get the QMK Web Kit loaded to my server, but this endeavor is not as straight forward as someone would think. :)   
« Last Edit: Tue, 09 March 2021, 09:53:38 by darkcruix »

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2796 on: Tue, 09 March 2021, 10:57:16 »
Someone sent me a great custom foot design on Thingiverse for both the new Model F keyboards and original F77 keyboards that can be 3d printed with rubber. Here's the link:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4786112

Offline dc_in_sf

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2797 on: Tue, 09 March 2021, 11:18:21 »
...
You can make the F77 work with QMK VIA, which gives you the offline ability to configure the keyboard, but unfortunately there are some caveats at the moment.

The main fallback in VIA if the configuration gets borked it is wipe the EEPROM by holding the ESC key down during the keyboard initialization to trigger an EEPROM wipe, unfortunately the initialization phase of the keyboard is when the controller figures out how to read the keys, holding the key down results in the key not being calibrated properly to be read so the EEPROM wipe doesn't trigger.

There are other ways to fix issues with the EEPROM but they are not super customer friendly.

How are you getting it working with VIA? Admittedly, I haven't done a deep dive into it, yet, but:
I added VIA_ENABLE = yes to the rules.mk
and did a
#undef BOOTMAGIC_ENABLE
#undef BOOTMAGIC_LITE in config.h.
In the end, I am getting a ELF linking error - any more advices?

I am also in the process to get the QMK Web Kit loaded to my server, but this endeavor is not as straight forward as someone would think. :)

These are my notes:

   1. Need to override matrix.c error check for bootmagic_enable
   2. Need to change raw_hid_receive to raw_hid_receive_kb in xwhatsit/util_comm.c

You also need to make your own JSON for the keyboard which is a bit of pain since the matrix is all over the place and then manually load it in VIA in order to use the configurator (attached mine, depending on your layout you may need to mod it).

Offline darkcruix

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2798 on: Tue, 09 March 2021, 15:45:22 »
...
You can make the F77 work with QMK VIA, which gives you the offline ability to configure the keyboard, but unfortunately there are some caveats at the moment.

The main fallback in VIA if the configuration gets borked it is wipe the EEPROM by holding the ESC key down during the keyboard initialization to trigger an EEPROM wipe, unfortunately the initialization phase of the keyboard is when the controller figures out how to read the keys, holding the key down results in the key not being calibrated properly to be read so the EEPROM wipe doesn't trigger.

There are other ways to fix issues with the EEPROM but they are not super customer friendly.

How are you getting it working with VIA? Admittedly, I haven't done a deep dive into it, yet, but:
I added VIA_ENABLE = yes to the rules.mk
and did a
#undef BOOTMAGIC_ENABLE
#undef BOOTMAGIC_LITE in config.h.
In the end, I am getting a ELF linking error - any more advices?

I am also in the process to get the QMK Web Kit loaded to my server, but this endeavor is not as straight forward as someone would think. :)

These are my notes:

   1. Need to override matrix.c error check for bootmagic_enable
   2. Need to change raw_hid_receive to raw_hid_receive_kb in xwhatsit/util_comm.c

You also need to make your own JSON for the keyboard which is a bit of pain since the matrix is all over the place and then manually load it in VIA in order to use the configurator (attached mine, depending on your layout you may need to mod it).

Works like a treat - here is my JSON for the F77-SplitRightShift_SplitBackspace (more to come)

Offline Maledicted

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2799 on: Wed, 10 March 2021, 13:06:31 »
There are some extremely uninformed people trash talking these boards in the comment section of LGR/Clint's video.