Author Topic: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards  (Read 656403 times)

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Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2800 on: Thu, 11 March 2021, 15:15:30 »
Second container ship update:

The second container shipment has arrived!

Important note:  please do not ask when your keyboard is going out or about separate shipping.  Hoping to continue shipping out everyone's orders over the coming months.  Sorry I can't be more specific just yet or let anyone know exactly where they are in the queue.  So far more than 800 Brand New Model F Keyboards have shipped.

The separate shipping option is no longer available as there is no more down time waiting for the keys.

I expect to get out of the way quickly a few dozen orders for people not ordering keys or keyboards and who just ordered solenoids, solenoid drivers, beamspring controllers, and F122/F107/PC AT foam and then proceed with the in stock low serials and the rest of the queue generally in order of when the order was placed, oldest going out first. 

If we are between printed key batches I'll be sending out more of the unprinted keys.  The factory has installed the unprinted keys to the keyboards and currently there are extras of the keyboards with installed unprinted black and pearl/pebble keys if anyone's interested in switching to unprinted.

The below photos show all new keyboards that arrived in the current container shipment (none from the last batch in these photos) and show a peek inside lots of the compact case boxes.  The bottom photo shows one of the boxes of solenoids and solenoid drivers packed and ready to go. 

This time I asked the factory to label each box with the variation number (100+ variations in total!) so that will save me a couple weeks of opening up each box to determine the variation as I needed to do last time.  All the keyboards are jumbled so I still need to organize and index their locations so I know where to find each variation.

Also arriving in this batch are unprinted blue and dark gray key sets.  Additional black sets will be shipped with the printed keys in the coming weeks.
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Offline sam123456

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2801 on: Thu, 11 March 2021, 23:47:31 »
Wow... that's a beautiful sight!

Offline darkcruix

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2802 on: Fri, 12 March 2021, 15:55:08 »
...
You can make the F77 work with QMK VIA, which gives you the offline ability to configure the keyboard, but unfortunately there are some caveats at the moment.

The main fallback in VIA if the configuration gets borked it is wipe the EEPROM by holding the ESC key down during the keyboard initialization to trigger an EEPROM wipe, unfortunately the initialization phase of the keyboard is when the controller figures out how to read the keys, holding the key down results in the key not being calibrated properly to be read so the EEPROM wipe doesn't trigger.

There are other ways to fix issues with the EEPROM but they are not super customer friendly.

How are you getting it working with VIA? Admittedly, I haven't done a deep dive into it, yet, but:
I added VIA_ENABLE = yes to the rules.mk
and did a
#undef BOOTMAGIC_ENABLE
#undef BOOTMAGIC_LITE in config.h.
In the end, I am getting a ELF linking error - any more advices?

I am also in the process to get the QMK Web Kit loaded to my server, but this endeavor is not as straight forward as someone would think. :)

These are my notes:

   1. Need to override matrix.c error check for bootmagic_enable
   2. Need to change raw_hid_receive to raw_hid_receive_kb in xwhatsit/util_comm.c

You also need to make your own JSON for the keyboard which is a bit of pain since the matrix is all over the place and then manually load it in VIA in order to use the configurator (attached mine, depending on your layout you may need to mod it).

Works like a treat - here is my JSON for the F77-SplitRightShift_SplitBackspace (more to come)


For those who want to test Via on a F77 (ANSI with either split rights shift and/or split backspace), find attached a zip file that contains a QMK firmware for it with JSON and little guide.
Warning: This is only a test version and won't work with pandrew's Util app.
The Via Application can be downloaded from here: https://github.com/the-via/releases/releases/tag/v1.3.1

264316-0

Offline Gemini

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2803 on: Sat, 13 March 2021, 20:11:16 »
I'm waiting on a beige F77 but am so confused with the colour on the industrial grey ones. The plain grey colour as it shows up on the official website is not something that interests me personally, but then sometimes I see a video or someone's personal photo and it is more olive like and I really love THAT colour.

Like this colour I love: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/r6iKD_nXEu8/maxresdefault.jpg

but which colour is it?? :/

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2804 on: Sat, 13 March 2021, 20:30:15 »
Gemini it's the same keyboard color - both are Industrial Gray, but with different lighting.  In person the Industrial Gray color would be like olive gray, a gray-green-tan type color.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2805 on: Sun, 14 March 2021, 17:06:15 »
I have tested the darkcruix Model F Via and it is working very well!

Some very important steps for Via:  one of the first steps to click settings, check "shown design tab" and allow remapping via keyboard.

And also you have to load the JSON file before the keyboard is detected, otherwise the home screen will stay on searching for devices.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2806 on: Mon, 15 March 2021, 11:45:38 »
The factory has air mailed the next batch of sublimated keys!  Still they are all US ANSI regular printed key sets, HHKB 6 key sets, and Mac sets for now.

350 full ANSI US key sets are included in this batch.

Now they will have sent me enough key sets for the time being so that I am now the bottleneck in terms of testing and mailing out each keyboard!  As I noted last week, it's going to take me probably between several months and the rest of the year to mail out all the keyboards and there is no more separate shipping or other early requests.  The only way to prioritize is with the custom/low serial option.

Offline blur410

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2807 on: Mon, 15 March 2021, 12:37:13 »
Loving my board, only wish I didn't annihilate one of the stabilizers with a drill bit before learning the screw+paper method. Now I have to find another way to safely remove my stabilizer, but I might try a thicker gauge of screw than depicted. I'm order #14400 btw.
Keyboard Ownership History: Dynex(Rubber dome chicklet keys)-EXTINCT, Macbook Air 2016(Scissor switch)-ACTIVE, Razer Ornata(Mecha-membrane)-EXTINCT, Corsair K68 RGB(Cherry MX Reds)-RETIRED, Razer Tartarus Pro(Razer optical anaglog)-RETIRED, Idobao ID-75(NK Creams)-SHELF, HHKB Pro 3 Classic(Topre)-SHELF, New Model F62(Capacitive buckling springs)-ACTIVE, Realforce 23UB(Topre)-ACTIVE, BM60-RGBEC w/KBDFANS 5 Degree Case(NK BOX Pinks)-BUILDING, Focus 2001 (Alps Pine White)-SHELF

Mouse Ownership History: Microsoft Mouse(Ball)-EXTINCT, Microsoft Mouse(Optical)-EXTINCT, Microsoft Gaming Mouse(Laser)-EXTINCT, Microsoft Mini Retractable Mouse(Ball)-EXTINCT, Logitech M-570(Optical Trackball)-RETIREDX2, Razer Deathadder(Optical)-EXTINCT, Razer Deathadder Chroma(Optical)-EXTINCT, Corsair Scimitar(Laser)-EXTINCT, Razer Deathadder Elite(Optical)-EXTINCT, Razer Deathadder v2(Optical)-ACTIVE, DROK iWit(Alps mechanical encoder)-ACTIVE, CST/X-keys/PI L-Trac(Laser/Optical Trackball)-ACTIVE, Ploopy Classic(Optical Trackball)-ACTIVE, Marcus RB2(Mechanical Trackball)-SHELF, Microsoft Trackball Optical(Optical Trackball)-SHELF, Logitech Trackman Vista(Optical Trackball)-SHELF, Microspeed PC-Trac(Optical? Trackball)-SHELF, Logitech Trackman FX(Optical Trackball)-ACTIVE

Offline Mr_BeastQuake

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2808 on: Mon, 15 March 2021, 13:22:45 »
The factory has air mailed the next batch of sublimated keys!  Still they are all US ANSI regular printed key sets, HHKB 6 key sets, and Mac sets for now.

350 full ANSI US key sets are included in this batch.

Now they will have sent me enough key sets for the time being so that I am now the bottleneck in terms of testing and mailing out each keyboard!  As I noted last week, it's going to take me probably between several months and the rest of the year to mail out all the keyboards and there is no more separate shipping or other early requests.  The only way to prioritize is with the custom/low serial option.

Curious if this will be the longest GH GB to be completed (plenty left incomplete). Itíll be the end of an era the day the title gets modified.

Offline macclack

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2809 on: Tue, 16 March 2021, 11:44:57 »

Curious if this will be the longest GH GB to be completed (plenty left incomplete). Itíll be the end of an era the day the title gets modified.

Or possibly the Matias 60%?

Offline Mr_BeastQuake

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2810 on: Tue, 16 March 2021, 12:10:53 »

Curious if this will be the longest GH GB to be completed (plenty left incomplete). Itíll be the end of an era the day the title gets modified.

Or possibly the Matias 60%?

Aye that seems to be longer with intent to fulfill. Love me a good read, a bit short at 4 pages though  :p

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2811 on: Wed, 17 March 2021, 10:29:17 »
Dye sublimation update:  the next group of keys has just arrived this morning!  Haven't had a chance to open up the boxes just yet.

I want to thank pandrew and darkcruix for their great work on QMK and Via for the Model F!  I was surprised that Model F QMK compatibility could be added so quickly to Via.  I have tested out Via and so far it is working well and it is pretty easy even for me to use!

Right now the pandrew utility is not yet up and running with the Via firmware but other than that I believe everything else is working.

Offline darkcruix

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2812 on: Wed, 17 March 2021, 10:49:22 »
Dye sublimation update:  the next group of keys has just arrived this morning!  Haven't had a chance to open up the boxes just yet.

I want to thank pandrew and darkcruix for their great work on QMK and Via for the Model F!  I was surprised that Model F QMK compatibility could be added so quickly to Via.  I have tested out Via and so far it is working well and it is pretty easy even for me to use!

Right now the pandrew utility is not yet up and running with the Via firmware but other than that I believe everything else is working.

Via is still in testing phase, but for those who want to give it a try, here is the link for the download of a firmware for F77 or F62, doc, and layout file: https://www.bucklingspring.com/via-firmware-and-layout/

Offline Gemini

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2813 on: Wed, 17 March 2021, 17:55:32 »
Are UK keys a long way off production Elipse?

Offline dc_in_sf

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2814 on: Wed, 17 March 2021, 19:13:18 »
Dye sublimation update:  the next group of keys has just arrived this morning!  Haven't had a chance to open up the boxes just yet.

I want to thank pandrew and darkcruix for their great work on QMK and Via for the Model F!  I was surprised that Model F QMK compatibility could be added so quickly to Via.  I have tested out Via and so far it is working well and it is pretty easy even for me to use!

Right now the pandrew utility is not yet up and running with the Via firmware but other than that I believe everything else is working.

Via is still in testing phase, but for those who want to give it a try, here is the link for the download of a firmware for F77 or F62, doc, and layout file: https://www.bucklingspring.com/via-firmware-and-layout/

There are some important things to know about VIA and the F77

There are two main ways with stock VIA to get it to ignore a key map stored in EEPROM
1. Use Bootmagic lite to reset the keyboard, VIA enabled firmware will then ignore the currently stored keymap
2. flash the KB with a version of VIA firmware that was compiled on a different day (VIA compares the FW date with a value stored in EEPROM)

The issue with the F77 is that you can't use bootmagic because the keyboard calibration routine that runs on powerup will mean that a held key is not detected when the control gets to the bootmagic routine.

So if you are using VIA on the F77, and the keymap becomes corrupt in some way (and e.g. causes the FW to crash), then your recovery choice is to compile a new version of VIA and flash it in yourself. Flashing in a regular QMK build *will not* clear the EEPROM, when you go back to your VIA FW the same key map will still be there. Non QMK FW may or may not fix it depending on whether it actually changes the EEPROM.

pandrew has a utility that in theory can clear the EEPROM, but it uses the same communication channel as VIA, so to use it will likely have to flash in a non VIA FW to make it work.

It is unknown how much of problem not being able to clear the EEPROM is. I have had no issues with any of my VIA enabled keyboards to date, so possibly this is a non issue, but the VIA folk thought it was important enough to enforce Bootmagic lite in VIA builds.

My take, use it, by just be warned you may have to muck around a bit more to recover a messed up keymap :-)


Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2815 on: Wed, 17 March 2021, 19:39:48 »
IBM Key legends and key descriptions

I have tallied the extra keys and submitted these keys to the factory, along with the finalized legend designs from forum member Zed.  During this process I came across some old files describing some of the IBM Key legends and key descriptions for the key functions on their keyboards - hope it might be of interest.  I had no idea what many of these keys actually did on the old terminals!

Copied below are pages from the IBM 3179 (F122 keyboard)
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IBM 3270 Operations Guide 1972, pages 31-47 - see this link for details of the following keys and more
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/ibm/3270/GA27-2742-1_Operators_Guide_for_IBM_3270_Information_DIsplay_Systems_Jul72.pdf
|← Back Tab
CLEAR
ERASE INPUT
ERASE EOF (End of Field)
TEST REQ
RESET
DUP
FIELD MARK
PA1 and PA2
INS MODE
DEL
PF1-PF12
NUMERIC (Shift)
ALPHA


IBM 3270 Oct 1988 revision (incl Unsaver 3290 Keyboard), starting with page 5-3  - see this link for details of the following keys and more
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/ibm/3270/GA27-2739-22_3270_Information_Display_System_Introduction_Oct88.pdf
"General Controls" (Left side of keyboard)
Attention key
Copy key
Cursor Select key
Doc On/Off
Enlarge
Erasing controls-Clear, Erase Input, and Erase to End of Field keys
Extended Select Shift
Print key
Record and Play keys
Rule key
Setup Mode
System Request key
Work Station Control Mode
o<->O  Zoom

Screen Management, Program Access, and Editing Controls
Note:   The following functions are not available on all keyboards.
Backspace erase
Change Screen key
Cursor Home key
Delete Word key
Double-Speed Cursor, Left and Right keys
Duplicate key
Field Mark key
Insert and Delete keys
Jump Partition (3290)
Jump Screen
Left and Right Cursor keys
Next Word key
Previous Word key
Program Access keys (PA1, PA2, PA3)
Selectable Field Tab key
Up and Down Cursor keys
3174 Entry Assist

Program Function and Attribute Selection Controls
Note:   The following functions are not available on all keyboards.
Attribute Select keys
Cursor Appearance keys, Alternate Cursor and Cursor Blink
Graphic Cursor ( + Cr) keys
Program Function keys, PF1 through PF24

IBM 3179 (one terminal used with F122 keyboards), page 6 onwards
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/3179/GA18-2180-1_3179_Color_Display_Station_Operator_Reference_and_Problem_Solving_Guide_Sep84.pdf
(relevant pages are copied above)
« Last Edit: Wed, 17 March 2021, 20:21:02 by Ellipse »

Offline darkcruix

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2816 on: Thu, 18 March 2021, 05:53:06 »
Dye sublimation update:  the next group of keys has just arrived this morning!  Haven't had a chance to open up the boxes just yet.

I want to thank pandrew and darkcruix for their great work on QMK and Via for the Model F!  I was surprised that Model F QMK compatibility could be added so quickly to Via.  I have tested out Via and so far it is working well and it is pretty easy even for me to use!

Right now the pandrew utility is not yet up and running with the Via firmware but other than that I believe everything else is working.

Via is still in testing phase, but for those who want to give it a try, here is the link for the download of a firmware for F77 or F62, doc, and layout file: https://www.bucklingspring.com/via-firmware-and-layout/

There are some important things to know about VIA and the F77

There are two main ways with stock VIA to get it to ignore a key map stored in EEPROM
1. Use Bootmagic lite to reset the keyboard, VIA enabled firmware will then ignore the currently stored keymap
2. flash the KB with a version of VIA firmware that was compiled on a different day (VIA compares the FW date with a value stored in EEPROM)

The issue with the F77 is that you can't use bootmagic because the keyboard calibration routine that runs on powerup will mean that a held key is not detected when the control gets to the bootmagic routine.

So if you are using VIA on the F77, and the keymap becomes corrupt in some way (and e.g. causes the FW to crash), then your recovery choice is to compile a new version of VIA and flash it in yourself. Flashing in a regular QMK build *will not* clear the EEPROM, when you go back to your VIA FW the same key map will still be there. Non QMK FW may or may not fix it depending on whether it actually changes the EEPROM.

pandrew has a utility that in theory can clear the EEPROM, but it uses the same communication channel as VIA, so to use it will likely have to flash in a non VIA FW to make it work.

It is unknown how much of problem not being able to clear the EEPROM is. I have had no issues with any of my VIA enabled keyboards to date, so possibly this is a non issue, but the VIA folk thought it was important enough to enforce Bootmagic lite in VIA builds.

My take, use it, by just be warned you may have to muck around a bit more to recover a messed up keymap :-)

Thanks for the additional info!
I have added a eeprom_eraser.hex in the latest version on www.bucklingspring.com which will take care of the issue with by completely filling the flash chip with zeros. It is also described in the doc I have added to the zip.
I am using a unconventional firmware on my system and had issues with some keys being properly recognized, but the eraser beautifully solved the issue. I was still able to hit Fn+Space+R, otherwise I would have needed to short the program jumper on the controller.
So, there is a slight risk with someone having a broken key mapping to require extra legwork to re-flash it.

Offline Fweedum

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2817 on: Thu, 18 March 2021, 11:38:37 »
Will it be possible to turn a solenoid off and on through VIA, or is that functionality not possible through the software?

Offline darkcruix

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2818 on: Thu, 18 March 2021, 11:59:10 »
Will it be possible to turn a solenoid off and on through VIA, or is that functionality not possible through the software?

I have it set-up and it is working. You just need to choose "Any" and then type e.g. HPT_TOG or any of the other QMK options:


| Name      | Description                                           |
|-----------|-------------------------------------------------------|
|`HPT_ON`   | Turn haptic feedback on                               |
|`HPT_OFF`  | Turn haptic feedback on                               |
|`HPT_TOG`  | Toggle haptic feedback on/off                         |
|`HPT_RST`  | Reset haptic feedback config to default               |
|`HPT_FBK`  | Toggle feedback to occur on keypress, release or both |
|`HPT_BUZ`  | Toggle solenoid buzz on/off                           |
|`HPT_MODI` | Go to next DRV2605L waveform                          |
|`HPT_MODD` | Go to previous DRV2605L waveform                      |
|`HPT_CONT` | Toggle continuous haptic mode on/off                  |
|`HPT_CONI` | Increase DRV2605L continous haptic strength           |
|`HPT_COND` | Decrease DRV2605L continous haptic strength           |
|`HPT_DWLI` | Increase Solenoid dwell time                          |
|`HPT_DWLD` | Decrease Solenoid dwell time                          |

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2819 on: Thu, 18 March 2021, 16:29:26 »
Thanks darkcruix - very helpful! 

I tried this on the pandrew QMK configurator but with the HPT_BUZ and the solenoid toggle worked.  The solenoid was by default set on. 

Also the solenoid was activated even with pressing the Fn keys - I thought pressing the modifier keys and Fn keys are not supposed to activate the solenoid?

Offline blur410

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2820 on: Fri, 19 March 2021, 14:02:40 »
Still trying to figure out how to use QMK on my board, is it basically just like any other QMK board after configuring in the link from the google doc? Or is there a particular procedure for updating? Also wondering if the default factory keybinds included a reset somewhere deep in a layer. Been about 6 months since I've used QMK so I'm a bit rusty and have no idea what VIA is or does beyond that its a local software configurator. Also which of the models contained in the beta corresponds to the new model f62 with the most basic pcb layout? It would be cool if you did a quick video walkthrough as a part of the online manual.

On another note, is there any plan or deadline to take the QMK out of the closed beta state and bring it into QMK proper?
Keyboard Ownership History: Dynex(Rubber dome chicklet keys)-EXTINCT, Macbook Air 2016(Scissor switch)-ACTIVE, Razer Ornata(Mecha-membrane)-EXTINCT, Corsair K68 RGB(Cherry MX Reds)-RETIRED, Razer Tartarus Pro(Razer optical anaglog)-RETIRED, Idobao ID-75(NK Creams)-SHELF, HHKB Pro 3 Classic(Topre)-SHELF, New Model F62(Capacitive buckling springs)-ACTIVE, Realforce 23UB(Topre)-ACTIVE, BM60-RGBEC w/KBDFANS 5 Degree Case(NK BOX Pinks)-BUILDING, Focus 2001 (Alps Pine White)-SHELF

Mouse Ownership History: Microsoft Mouse(Ball)-EXTINCT, Microsoft Mouse(Optical)-EXTINCT, Microsoft Gaming Mouse(Laser)-EXTINCT, Microsoft Mini Retractable Mouse(Ball)-EXTINCT, Logitech M-570(Optical Trackball)-RETIREDX2, Razer Deathadder(Optical)-EXTINCT, Razer Deathadder Chroma(Optical)-EXTINCT, Corsair Scimitar(Laser)-EXTINCT, Razer Deathadder Elite(Optical)-EXTINCT, Razer Deathadder v2(Optical)-ACTIVE, DROK iWit(Alps mechanical encoder)-ACTIVE, CST/X-keys/PI L-Trac(Laser/Optical Trackball)-ACTIVE, Ploopy Classic(Optical Trackball)-ACTIVE, Marcus RB2(Mechanical Trackball)-SHELF, Microsoft Trackball Optical(Optical Trackball)-SHELF, Logitech Trackman Vista(Optical Trackball)-SHELF, Microspeed PC-Trac(Optical? Trackball)-SHELF, Logitech Trackman FX(Optical Trackball)-ACTIVE

Offline dc_in_sf

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2821 on: Fri, 19 March 2021, 14:28:33 »
Still trying to figure out how to use QMK on my board, is it basically just like any other QMK board after configuring in the link from the google doc? Or is there a particular procedure for updating? Also wondering if the default factory keybinds included a reset somewhere deep in a layer. Been about 6 months since I've used QMK so I'm a bit rusty and have no idea what VIA is or does beyond that its a local software configurator. Also which of the models contained in the beta corresponds to the new model f62 with the most basic pcb layout? It would be cool if you did a quick video walkthrough as a part of the online manual.

On another note, is there any plan or deadline to take the QMK out of the closed beta state and bring it into QMK proper?

If you grab the download from darkcruix and use his build, he has a handy cheatsheet. Because this is not an official VIA build you have to side load the JSON for the layout rather than having VIA auto detect it. I think darkcruix has the JSON to support all the layouts for the F62/F77 (The JSON I posted earlier doesn't have the support for the split keys because I am lazy).

If you want to build your own VIA build in QMK you'll have to jump through a few hoops. You need to enable VIA in the make file, and then modify a couple of the source files to make them work with VIA (there are notes further up the thread) and generate a layout JSON (or better steal the ones darkcruix posted), but honestly a pre-build VIA firmware should work unless you want to do the sort of custom things in QMK that would require you to know how to do all this already :)


Offline blur410

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2822 on: Fri, 19 March 2021, 14:38:42 »
I mean if the original QMK was easy enough for an ape like me to use, I would hope that VIA wouldn't force me to leap through any more hoops. If it is faster and easier to adjust the layout with VIA that normal QMK then I'd consider using it.
Keyboard Ownership History: Dynex(Rubber dome chicklet keys)-EXTINCT, Macbook Air 2016(Scissor switch)-ACTIVE, Razer Ornata(Mecha-membrane)-EXTINCT, Corsair K68 RGB(Cherry MX Reds)-RETIRED, Razer Tartarus Pro(Razer optical anaglog)-RETIRED, Idobao ID-75(NK Creams)-SHELF, HHKB Pro 3 Classic(Topre)-SHELF, New Model F62(Capacitive buckling springs)-ACTIVE, Realforce 23UB(Topre)-ACTIVE, BM60-RGBEC w/KBDFANS 5 Degree Case(NK BOX Pinks)-BUILDING, Focus 2001 (Alps Pine White)-SHELF

Mouse Ownership History: Microsoft Mouse(Ball)-EXTINCT, Microsoft Mouse(Optical)-EXTINCT, Microsoft Gaming Mouse(Laser)-EXTINCT, Microsoft Mini Retractable Mouse(Ball)-EXTINCT, Logitech M-570(Optical Trackball)-RETIREDX2, Razer Deathadder(Optical)-EXTINCT, Razer Deathadder Chroma(Optical)-EXTINCT, Corsair Scimitar(Laser)-EXTINCT, Razer Deathadder Elite(Optical)-EXTINCT, Razer Deathadder v2(Optical)-ACTIVE, DROK iWit(Alps mechanical encoder)-ACTIVE, CST/X-keys/PI L-Trac(Laser/Optical Trackball)-ACTIVE, Ploopy Classic(Optical Trackball)-ACTIVE, Marcus RB2(Mechanical Trackball)-SHELF, Microsoft Trackball Optical(Optical Trackball)-SHELF, Logitech Trackman Vista(Optical Trackball)-SHELF, Microspeed PC-Trac(Optical? Trackball)-SHELF, Logitech Trackman FX(Optical Trackball)-ACTIVE

Offline dc_in_sf

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2823 on: Fri, 19 March 2021, 17:25:48 »
I mean if the original QMK was easy enough for an ape like me to use, I would hope that VIA wouldn't force me to leap through any more hoops. If it is faster and easier to adjust the layout with VIA that normal QMK then I'd consider using it.

VIA is really designed so you don't need to know anything about QMK or how to install a QMK build environment.

The idea is your board comes pre-installed with VIA firmware (or worst case you download the firmware and QMK toolbox and manually flash it), and then you only need the VIA tool to do all your layouts.

I'm comfortable enough with using QMK that I didn't really rush to play with VIA, but ultimately the selling point for me (and why I am converting all my boards to VIA based FW) is the ability to dynamically load string macros. This has been a massive productivity enhancement for me but ymmv.

Now I'm custom building all my boards firmware since I have a couple of things I like that can't be done in stock VIA (lighting changes on layer change, some fancy tap/hold keys), but for a lot of users, your entire config can easily be done in VIA.

Really the only hard thing about using VIA with an unsupported board is mapping the layout matrix into the JSON, and once you do it once, it is pretty easy (if boring). The F77/F62 are slightly trickier because the beta QMK support was not designed with VIA in mind so you have to workaround some items (bootmagic and raw hid support) but it is not a big deal.


Offline CapnCrunch53

  • Posts: 4
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2824 on: Fri, 19 March 2021, 18:34:31 »
I just flashed my F62 with the VIA firmware because I desired the ability to do string macros without having to manually compile QMK. And I have to say, it was incredibly easy to install, and even easier to configure. Now I have custom macros for Discord commands which I think would've taken a lot longer to implement in QMK.

Offline blur410

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2825 on: Sat, 20 March 2021, 01:10:29 »
I mean I'm dumb, has someone done a video guide for VIA?
Keyboard Ownership History: Dynex(Rubber dome chicklet keys)-EXTINCT, Macbook Air 2016(Scissor switch)-ACTIVE, Razer Ornata(Mecha-membrane)-EXTINCT, Corsair K68 RGB(Cherry MX Reds)-RETIRED, Razer Tartarus Pro(Razer optical anaglog)-RETIRED, Idobao ID-75(NK Creams)-SHELF, HHKB Pro 3 Classic(Topre)-SHELF, New Model F62(Capacitive buckling springs)-ACTIVE, Realforce 23UB(Topre)-ACTIVE, BM60-RGBEC w/KBDFANS 5 Degree Case(NK BOX Pinks)-BUILDING, Focus 2001 (Alps Pine White)-SHELF

Mouse Ownership History: Microsoft Mouse(Ball)-EXTINCT, Microsoft Mouse(Optical)-EXTINCT, Microsoft Gaming Mouse(Laser)-EXTINCT, Microsoft Mini Retractable Mouse(Ball)-EXTINCT, Logitech M-570(Optical Trackball)-RETIREDX2, Razer Deathadder(Optical)-EXTINCT, Razer Deathadder Chroma(Optical)-EXTINCT, Corsair Scimitar(Laser)-EXTINCT, Razer Deathadder Elite(Optical)-EXTINCT, Razer Deathadder v2(Optical)-ACTIVE, DROK iWit(Alps mechanical encoder)-ACTIVE, CST/X-keys/PI L-Trac(Laser/Optical Trackball)-ACTIVE, Ploopy Classic(Optical Trackball)-ACTIVE, Marcus RB2(Mechanical Trackball)-SHELF, Microsoft Trackball Optical(Optical Trackball)-SHELF, Logitech Trackman Vista(Optical Trackball)-SHELF, Microspeed PC-Trac(Optical? Trackball)-SHELF, Logitech Trackman FX(Optical Trackball)-ACTIVE

Offline darkcruix

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2826 on: Sat, 20 March 2021, 03:17:31 »
I mean I'm dumb, has someone done a video guide for VIA?

The PDF in the download is only 3 or 4 pages - mostly screenshots.
Have a look at the PDF and if you have questions, just let me know.

Offline darkcruix

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2827 on: Sat, 20 March 2021, 03:22:53 »
I just flashed my F62 with the VIA firmware because I desired the ability to do string macros without having to manually compile QMK. And I have to say, it was incredibly easy to install, and even easier to configure. Now I have custom macros for Discord commands which I think would've taken a lot longer to implement in QMK.

Thanks for the feedback. I also like it that you can make adjustments on the fly. Changing and adding macros are the thing that made the difference for me also. At work I switch between projects quite frequently and having the 4 or 5 most used things in a macro really makes all the difference.

Offline Arkku

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2828 on: Sat, 20 March 2021, 09:30:55 »
re. VIA; for those of us who have not yet received the keyboard but would like to play around with it, is there any way to skip the USB keyboard detection and just tell it to show a specific keyboard as though one were connected? I suppose I could modify the file to put the id of another keyboard that I have, but any other way?

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2829 on: Sun, 21 March 2021, 11:49:57 »
Over on DT I posted some additional notes on the keycaps and sublimation:

Key texture - the key top is more textured on purpose! Keys from newer molds that haven't seen much usage (like the new molds for this project) as well as keycaps that haven't seen much usage have a fresher texture. My NIB Model F's have far more key texture than my other (used) Model F keyboards from around the same time. Once millions of shots have been made from the molds the texture wears down, but the factory can re-texture the tops every now and then as part of maintaining the molds.

The keys are a replica of the one piece F122 and XT originals in my collection. IBM's keycaps varied over the years and I have interestingly found the later production keycaps (including those on many F107s) to be not as good as the 1983-1985 period IBM originals.

IBM's later 4704 and other Model F caps had noticeably different fonts and had looser quality control - thinner in stroke, more condensed, and less nice looking in my opinion. The project's goal for the aspect of dye sublimation was XT quality fonts, not reproductions of the 4704 fonts (even though the rest of the project is 4704 repro!).

The filled in hole inside the key is possibly a later design by IBM compared to the hole. (The hole is for the ejector pin of the mold!) The earliest keys in my collection have a hole for the most part, as well as the 4 circular designs on the bottom edges as shown, so I put it there. IBM's key designs varied across production lines, across time, and possibly across their different manufacturing facilities.

They probably stopped that design because it puts a lot of stress on the one ejector pin during injection molding. During injection molding of the keys, one of the ejector pins of the most-used type of key (1U) actually broke and needed to be repaired.

In summary, all of the legends are accurate to the 1984 F122 and XT caps in my collection and the keycap part tolerances are within my required +/- 0.1 to 0.2 mm. Forum member Zed did an excellent job recreating the fonts exactly from high resolution scans I sent over.

Regarding the stabilizer inserts, agreed it is best to use the project inserts with project keys and non-project inserts with the non-project keys. The inserts are also more difficult to remove. As many of you probably know, given PBT being more difficult to work with due to shrinkage, getting the PBT parts just right so there is not too little, and not too much space between the key post and inside of the stabilizer insert proved very difficult a few years back, but getting the insert working with the new project keys was the priority over getting a looser fit like the originals.

The key legends are definitely different from even some contemporary IBM keys on other keyboards.

Here is a 2016 scan of my originals done on an Epson V700. Keys sourced from a 6110344 F122 from mid-1984 and an XT from around the same time. Also some Model M keys are in the scan; they were thickened up and redesigned a bit to match more consistently with F keys.

Below that is a scan of the new reproduction keys on the same scanner. Pardon the colors being a bit off in my old scan.

264886-0
264888-1
264890-2
« Last Edit: Sun, 21 March 2021, 11:51:58 by Ellipse »

Online LightningXI

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2830 on: Tue, 23 March 2021, 08:43:32 »
So excited to get printed keys. I should get around to flashing with VIA too.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2831 on: Thu, 25 March 2021, 21:02:29 »
To follow up on solenoid adjustments, I have posted a 30 second video on adjusting the solenoid settings:

Some solenoid settings may result in a lower sound, or no sound coming from your solenoid.  This video compares the sound with two different solenoid settings.  With maximum throw, extend 20ms, retract 30ms, you get a full volume solenoid click sound.  With extend reduced to 15ms, retract 30ms, you get a reduced volume solenoid sound.  You can also adjust the physical solenoid settings with the two screws found on the solenoid - another solenoid video in this channel discusses how to physically install and adjust the solenoid in your keyboard.


Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2832 on: Thu, 01 April 2021, 15:13:58 »
As an update darkcruix has added some instructions for the Via Model F beta over on Deskthority:  https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?p=482036#p482036

Via is a great way to be able to edit your Model F keyboard layout using a downloadable program and without having to flash the firmware with each layout change.

If anyone wants to try it out please do share some feedback!

Offline Mr_BeastQuake

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2833 on: Fri, 02 April 2021, 00:37:54 »
Had my regular grey F77 show up today. Itís probably the best looking keyboard I own. Thanks a bunch Ellipse.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2834 on: Fri, 02 April 2021, 09:56:34 »
Great Mr_BeastQuake - glad everything arrived safely!  Please do post a photo of your set up keyboard if you don't mind!

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2835 on: Sun, 04 April 2021, 22:45:04 »
Dye sublimation update: The factory has been very busy with the sublimation over the past month. While the factory was training the new workers last month, production was of course not full speed, and they were also keeping a closer eye to make sure that the dye sublimation quality standards were being met.

The factory reports that so far about 1,800 US regular pearl/pebble key sets have been produced, as well as a number of the HHKB and Mac sets. The factory is on schedule to finish up the sublimation in the next two months.

The first international artwork has been completed by Zed - it is the UK set (the next most popular set by order quantity) - that's probably the next set they will work on, along with producing some sample sets of Industrial SSK blue as well as some dark gray sets.

Offline zacheadams

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2836 on: Wed, 07 April 2021, 12:15:46 »
The Verge just published a review of the New Model M, and the author said they have an Input Club Beamspring coming at some point and expressed interest in trying the New Model F. Ellipse, do you have a review unit of some sort available? The author is pretty easy to get in touch with.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2837 on: Wed, 07 April 2021, 13:02:24 »
Thanks for letting me know - I just tweeted a reply.  Since the reviewer, I believe, is in the UK, maybe someone local can loan their keyboard for a review. 
« Last Edit: Wed, 07 April 2021, 13:04:40 by Ellipse »

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2838 on: Fri, 09 April 2021, 12:03:55 »
Solenoid configuration - some helpful advice from pandrew.

There were some reports of the new solenoids not operating under full power - this is due to the default QMK settings that require adjustment. 

For the new solenoids, since they are far beefier than the originals, they need a little more dwell time to actuate to the full force and full volume.  Examples of different dwell settings and the sounds for each can be found in my YouTube video below. 

My recommendation is to set the dwell time to 20 ms to 30 ms.

To do this, go into Via or the QMK configurator and per pandrew:  "map the HPT_DWLI (and HPT_DWLD) keycodes into their keymap, and press HPT_DWLI 16 times, to get it to 20 ms."  (the default setting is 4ms).  I will be doing this with the firmware loaded onto each keyboard going forward.

There is a retract setting for xwhatsit firmware that does not exist in QMK - for xwhatsit firmware the important thing is to set the retract to longer than the extend time, say 30ms to 40ms.  If you do not do this, the solenoid may not function properly.  Per pandrew:  "The current QMK implementation doesn't have a retract time (it's effectively zero), and can't currently be adjusted."


Offline diazel

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2839 on: Fri, 09 April 2021, 13:15:09 »
Solenoid configuration - some helpful advice from pandrew.

There were some reports of the new solenoids not operating under full power - this is due to the default QMK settings that require adjustment... 


Does that mean the solenoids are shipping now?

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2840 on: Fri, 09 April 2021, 13:18:49 »
Yes, solenoids and solenoid drivers started shipping en masse last month, as the second container shipment arrived last month.  Along with beamspring controllers too!

As a general note for everyone, I am still working on mailing out everyone's orders and cannot estimate where everyone is in the line or how long it will take for someone's order to ship.

Offline diazel

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2841 on: Fri, 09 April 2021, 13:59:54 »
Yes, solenoids and solenoid drivers started shipping en masse last month, as the second container shipment arrived last month.  Along with beamspring controllers too!

As a general note for everyone, I am still working on mailing out everyone's orders and cannot estimate where everyone is in the line or how long it will take for someone's order to ship.

Would that include the blue printed keycap sets as well by chance? ::optimistically crosses fingers::

Offline blur410

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2842 on: Sat, 10 April 2021, 08:50:43 »
Blue caps are basically being made last, when I found out about this I immediately changed my order to have them shipped separately.
Keyboard Ownership History: Dynex(Rubber dome chicklet keys)-EXTINCT, Macbook Air 2016(Scissor switch)-ACTIVE, Razer Ornata(Mecha-membrane)-EXTINCT, Corsair K68 RGB(Cherry MX Reds)-RETIRED, Razer Tartarus Pro(Razer optical anaglog)-RETIRED, Idobao ID-75(NK Creams)-SHELF, HHKB Pro 3 Classic(Topre)-SHELF, New Model F62(Capacitive buckling springs)-ACTIVE, Realforce 23UB(Topre)-ACTIVE, BM60-RGBEC w/KBDFANS 5 Degree Case(NK BOX Pinks)-BUILDING, Focus 2001 (Alps Pine White)-SHELF

Mouse Ownership History: Microsoft Mouse(Ball)-EXTINCT, Microsoft Mouse(Optical)-EXTINCT, Microsoft Gaming Mouse(Laser)-EXTINCT, Microsoft Mini Retractable Mouse(Ball)-EXTINCT, Logitech M-570(Optical Trackball)-RETIREDX2, Razer Deathadder(Optical)-EXTINCT, Razer Deathadder Chroma(Optical)-EXTINCT, Corsair Scimitar(Laser)-EXTINCT, Razer Deathadder Elite(Optical)-EXTINCT, Razer Deathadder v2(Optical)-ACTIVE, DROK iWit(Alps mechanical encoder)-ACTIVE, CST/X-keys/PI L-Trac(Laser/Optical Trackball)-ACTIVE, Ploopy Classic(Optical Trackball)-ACTIVE, Marcus RB2(Mechanical Trackball)-SHELF, Microsoft Trackball Optical(Optical Trackball)-SHELF, Logitech Trackman Vista(Optical Trackball)-SHELF, Microspeed PC-Trac(Optical? Trackball)-SHELF, Logitech Trackman FX(Optical Trackball)-ACTIVE

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2843 on: Sun, 11 April 2021, 15:50:49 »
I have finally set up for myself a local way of compiling the firmware through the command line so that I can update the factory default solenoid dwell times, add in darkcruix's patch for excluding certain keys for the solenoid, allow NKRO but disable it by default, etc.

Keyboards going out starting this week will use the latest QMK firmware (attached).  Files are also available on the project web site - About - Code page.

The instructions from pandrew were very helpful but for a beginner such as myself, I needed step by step instructions which I have updated below.  This will allow those with little to know programming knowledge to adjust the settings in QMK that cannot be adjusted from the QMK configurator GUI web site.

At the bottom of this post you can download my latest JSON files and the latest firmware, which uses the current QMK branch as of today, with the above-mentioned changes, and with pandrew's Model F-specific additions to QMK that have made all of this possible.

Once again much thanks to pandrew and darkcruix for their outstanding work on QMK and Via.  As a note the attached firmware is not Via compatible but it can be made compatible.

To customize Via firmware beyond layout customizations (for example, to make all the above changes), please contact darkcruix, who put together a document listing changes in the code to get the firmware working with Via.  You currently lose the ability to diagnose the controller in pandrew's QMK utility if you use Via firmware.  To just have Via with the default settings that cannot be changed in the Via program, please refer to darkcruix's post where you can download the Via hex file and start customizing from there without having to set up linux:  https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?p=482036#p482036

new procedure from scratch Ubuntu install:
download and install Ubuntu in a Virtual Machine

open Terminal program and enter one line at a time:

sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade -y
sudo apt install python3-pip
sudo python3 -m pip install qmk
echo "PATH=$PATH:$HOME/.local/bin" >> ../.bashrc
sudo apt install git
qmk setup
git clone [insert URL here - contact pandrew on Deskthority for access to pandrew's git project]

do this action-not a command in terminal
copy keyboards/xwhatsit folder to qmk_firmware/keyboards folder
delete everything in the ubuntu home folder except the QMK_firmware and desktop directories - the xwhatsit folder has all the changes in QMK

code changes to make
config.h in the folder of the keyboard you want to update - in my case, keyboards/xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/f77/wcass
lines 286-287
#define SOLENOID_DEFAULT_DWELL 20
#define SOLENOID_MIN_DWELL 20

replace haptic.c file in qmk_firmware/drivers/haptic folder with darkcruix's updated file to allow customization of which keys trigger the solenoid (modifier keys by default will not trigger the solenoid unless you change the below line to #define HAPTIC_EXCLUSION_KEYS 0):
https://github.com/darkcruix/qmk_firmware/blob/master/drivers/haptic/haptic.c

add to end of file - new line:
#define HAPTIC_EXCLUSION_KEYS 1

in rules.mk:
line 40:
NKRO_ENABLE = yes            # USB Nkey Rollover
add this line at bottom:
LTO_ENABLE = yes             # Link Time Optimization - reduces file size

put the json file with your custom layout (the file you created in QMK configurator) in the root of the Home folder
command to set the keyboard - can change F77 to F62 in this example if you have an F62: 

qmk config user.keyboard=xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/f77/wcass
qmk compile "../1.json"
it will give a random name and place the file in the root qmk_firmware folder - not the name of the json file, so if compiling multiple layouts, rename the newly created hex file before proceeding to compile the next layout
../ means go up one folder from qmk_firmware folder

examples:
qmk config user.keyboard=xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/f77/wcass
qmk compile "../F77_-_ANSI-ISO_-_0-9.json"
qmk compile "../F77_-_ANSI-ISO_-_PrintScr.json"
qmk compile "../F77_-_HHKB_2U_backspace_-_0-9.json"
qmk compile "../F77_-_HHKB_2U_backspace_-_PrintScr.json"
qmk compile "../F77_-_HHKB_split_backspace_-_0-9.json"
qmk compile "../F77_-_HHKB_split_backspace_-_PrintScr.json"
qmk compile "../F77_JIS_-_PrintScr_-_need_to_do_0-9_layout_and_add_function_layer.json"
qmk compile "../zF77_-_HHKB_split_backspace,_everything_else_ANSI_-_0-9.json"
qmk compile "../zF77_-_HHKB_split_backspace,_everything_else_ANSI_-_PrintScr.json"
qmk compile "../zF77_-_HHKB_Split_Shift,_everything_else_ANSI_-_0-9.json"
qmk compile "../zF77_-_HHKB_Split_Shift,_everything_else_ANSI_-_PrintScr.json"

to then switch to compiling f62's:
qmk config user.keyboard=xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/f62/wcass
qmk compile "../F62_-_ANSI-ISO_-_Regular_2U_or_Split_Backspace.json"
qmk compile "../F62_-_HHKB_-_Regular_2U_Backspace.json"
qmk compile "../F62_-_HHKB_-_Split_Backspace.json"
qmk compile "../zF62_HHKB_split_right_shift_only,_everything_else_ANSI.json"
« Last Edit: Wed, 14 April 2021, 16:06:34 by Ellipse »

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2844 on: Wed, 14 April 2021, 16:06:57 »
I have just updated the QMK files on the project web site to include Via with the updates I noted a few posts up (also attached).  The zip file includes the layout files and hex files for Via QMK and for non-Via QMK.

Please follow darkcruix's post for more details on setting up Via:

https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?p=482408#p482408

Offline blur410

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2845 on: Wed, 14 April 2021, 16:36:30 »
Thanks, finally got around to messing with QMK and found out that I cannot get NKRO to work on my standard Windows 10 OS on a custom workstation. Does it only work with the toggle? I have tried the NKRO on and off as separate buttons.

Also for ordering extra cases, are there still plenty available?
Keyboard Ownership History: Dynex(Rubber dome chicklet keys)-EXTINCT, Macbook Air 2016(Scissor switch)-ACTIVE, Razer Ornata(Mecha-membrane)-EXTINCT, Corsair K68 RGB(Cherry MX Reds)-RETIRED, Razer Tartarus Pro(Razer optical anaglog)-RETIRED, Idobao ID-75(NK Creams)-SHELF, HHKB Pro 3 Classic(Topre)-SHELF, New Model F62(Capacitive buckling springs)-ACTIVE, Realforce 23UB(Topre)-ACTIVE, BM60-RGBEC w/KBDFANS 5 Degree Case(NK BOX Pinks)-BUILDING, Focus 2001 (Alps Pine White)-SHELF

Mouse Ownership History: Microsoft Mouse(Ball)-EXTINCT, Microsoft Mouse(Optical)-EXTINCT, Microsoft Gaming Mouse(Laser)-EXTINCT, Microsoft Mini Retractable Mouse(Ball)-EXTINCT, Logitech M-570(Optical Trackball)-RETIREDX2, Razer Deathadder(Optical)-EXTINCT, Razer Deathadder Chroma(Optical)-EXTINCT, Corsair Scimitar(Laser)-EXTINCT, Razer Deathadder Elite(Optical)-EXTINCT, Razer Deathadder v2(Optical)-ACTIVE, DROK iWit(Alps mechanical encoder)-ACTIVE, CST/X-keys/PI L-Trac(Laser/Optical Trackball)-ACTIVE, Ploopy Classic(Optical Trackball)-ACTIVE, Marcus RB2(Mechanical Trackball)-SHELF, Microsoft Trackball Optical(Optical Trackball)-SHELF, Logitech Trackman Vista(Optical Trackball)-SHELF, Microspeed PC-Trac(Optical? Trackball)-SHELF, Logitech Trackman FX(Optical Trackball)-ACTIVE

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2846 on: Wed, 14 April 2021, 17:30:27 »
Yep I have extras of the cases and other parts available.  You need to enable NKRO in two places in the firmware to get it to default to NKRO.  My setting allows NKRO but you have to switch it on, for compatibility reasons.

Offline blur410

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2847 on: Thu, 15 April 2021, 05:29:26 »
What other places do you have to enable NKRO from? Is it a Windows thing that stops it? The fact the board stops NKRO means I can't play MMORPG's with it ATM. I have attempted to use a remapped layout with both toggle and NKRO on/off and to no avail.
Keyboard Ownership History: Dynex(Rubber dome chicklet keys)-EXTINCT, Macbook Air 2016(Scissor switch)-ACTIVE, Razer Ornata(Mecha-membrane)-EXTINCT, Corsair K68 RGB(Cherry MX Reds)-RETIRED, Razer Tartarus Pro(Razer optical anaglog)-RETIRED, Idobao ID-75(NK Creams)-SHELF, HHKB Pro 3 Classic(Topre)-SHELF, New Model F62(Capacitive buckling springs)-ACTIVE, Realforce 23UB(Topre)-ACTIVE, BM60-RGBEC w/KBDFANS 5 Degree Case(NK BOX Pinks)-BUILDING, Focus 2001 (Alps Pine White)-SHELF

Mouse Ownership History: Microsoft Mouse(Ball)-EXTINCT, Microsoft Mouse(Optical)-EXTINCT, Microsoft Gaming Mouse(Laser)-EXTINCT, Microsoft Mini Retractable Mouse(Ball)-EXTINCT, Logitech M-570(Optical Trackball)-RETIREDX2, Razer Deathadder(Optical)-EXTINCT, Razer Deathadder Chroma(Optical)-EXTINCT, Corsair Scimitar(Laser)-EXTINCT, Razer Deathadder Elite(Optical)-EXTINCT, Razer Deathadder v2(Optical)-ACTIVE, DROK iWit(Alps mechanical encoder)-ACTIVE, CST/X-keys/PI L-Trac(Laser/Optical Trackball)-ACTIVE, Ploopy Classic(Optical Trackball)-ACTIVE, Marcus RB2(Mechanical Trackball)-SHELF, Microsoft Trackball Optical(Optical Trackball)-SHELF, Logitech Trackman Vista(Optical Trackball)-SHELF, Microspeed PC-Trac(Optical? Trackball)-SHELF, Logitech Trackman FX(Optical Trackball)-ACTIVE

Offline Ellipse

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Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2848 on: Thu, 15 April 2021, 15:41:52 »
If you flash my latest hex file, you can enable NKRO by pressing and holding Shift + Right Shift + N

Hold down the keys Fn+Spacebar+
T-->Toggle the Solenoid On/Off Any key HPT_TOG
+= Increase Solenoid dwell time  HPT_DWLI
-_ Decrease Solenoid dwell time  HPT_DWLD
E-->EEPROM Reset (erases all settings like if you adjusted a dwell time for solenoid)
R-->Reset (enter bootloader)
D-->Debug

Command keys:  hold Left Shift + Right Shift +
B-->Enter Bootloader
N-->Toggle N-Key Rollover (NKRO) (off by default to maximize compatibility)
Others:  https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/using-qmk/advanced-keycodes/feature_command

NKRO note as relayed to me:
Why there is not NKRO by default: When the USB Human Interface Device protocol was designed, they had a limit of 6 keys in there. This is the minimum all systems agree on (including BIOS etc.). NKRO is not standardized and there is a good chance, the keyboard doesn't work in certain circumstances. In fact, on a Mac you can't get into the recovery mode or NVRAM. On a PC, it depends on the UEFI designer, but I have seen problems with HP laptops.

Offline Ellipse

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  • Location: New York
Re: [GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards
« Reply #2849 on: Thu, 15 April 2021, 21:39:57 »
Dye sublimation update on the blue printed US ANSI, UK pearl/pebble, and dark gray US ANSI printed key sets:

The factory reports they have completed 150 blue, 50 UK, and 125 gray key sets and will be mailing them to me by express air shipping in the coming days, with the next batch of pearl/pebble US ANSI sublimated key sets. Also sending 60 blue hhkb 6 key sets and the same number of gray sets, plus 15 6 key mac sets each for both these colors. I will be posting photos soon after!

This means that orders containing these key sets will be eligible to get into the queue for shipping assuming everything is in stock (the split shipping option is not available any more) - we are still going in the original shipping order where possible so shipping is still going to be months away for most orders as I am the final bottleneck of the project, inspecting each keyboard and putting each order together one at a time. As noted earlier I am unable to estimate where any one particular order is in the queue but I send out a tracking number by email as soon as each order ships.