GH60 Group Buy (Salvage Mode: Enabled - Update in OP)

[hashbaz]

Mega thanks to everyone involved in picking up the pieces here.

[domoaligato]

Good news guys! All you still waiting on getting your PCB's will be pleased to know that techkeys have rev c PCB's ready for immediate shipment!

What a kick in the balls that is.

How's they get the rev c schematics? I didn't think they were getting published until everyone had received their orders?

They originally said that they would give out the gerbers when the pcb's were in the hands of the group buy participants.
The PCB's are now in the hands of quite a few buyers.

[battletux]

They originally said that they would give out the gerbers when the pcb's were in the hands of the group buy participants.
The PCB's are now in the hands of quite a few buyers.

Yes, in the hands of quite a few but not all. Thats the problem I have with this. The schematics should not have been released until EVERYONE had received their order.

To me this is worse than getting stiffed by WFD when he upped and left dropping the GB in the ****.

It just seems like one geek hacker profiteering off the back of the high demand for this board at the expense of those who funded it and spent the last few years not ever knowing if they would get to see their investment materialise. **** the little guy right?

[Prelim]

techkeys should wait until all original pcbs are sold here, to start his "business"... not cool IMHO

[MOZ]

I for one think it is perfectly fine for TechKeys to sell the GH60 PCB, in fact I would applaud their commitment to the community for not having them available on his store for such a long time. They are a business and they have waited long enough for this GB to complete, for whatever unfortunate reasons the GB has taken so long to complete, they waited patiently and now when an end is in sight, it's only fair for them to have them on their store, unlike the TaoBao sellers, that have been selling the GH60 PCBs for a time now.

Edit: And before someone asks, I don't have anything invested in this GB, maybe that is why I think so. I can understand participants might feel bad about this, but TechKeys doesn't deserve the criticism.

[Prelim]

completely different things, as TaoBao guys are selling GH60 "clones" which aren't the original design and even offer many features such as full backlight, SMD leds etc

[flabbergast]

EDIT: ... deleted. Was a rant.
I'm with Prelim on this one. If the agreement was to not make the gerbers available before the GB ends, then they should not have been made available.

[battletux]

I for one think it is perfectly fine for TechKeys to sell the GH60 PCB, in fact I would applaud their commitment to the community for not having them available on his store for such a long time. They are a business and they have waited long enough for this GB to complete, for whatever unfortunate reasons the GB has taken so long to complete, they waited patiently and now when an end is in sight, it's only fair for them to have them on their store, unlike the TaoBao sellers, that have been selling the GH60 PCBs for a time now.

Edit: And before someone asks, I don't have anything invested in this GB, maybe that is why I think so. I can understand participants might feel bad about this, but TechKeys doesn't deserve the criticism.

But how have TechKeys gotten the Schematics? They didn't design the board, Komar did, and as far as I'm aware I've not seen that the schematics have been released for the Rev C (but I could be wrong). What they are doing is ****ty when their are people still invested in this GB who have not yet received their orders. Yes they are a business, but this was a community project. THATS the difference.

For them to sell it before everyone has their orders stinks. I respect your right to your opinion but their move is still crappy.

With regards to the Taobao/Satan/China versions, they are all based on the Rev B or A that were not the final product. The reason why the rev C board schematics were not going to be released until everyone had their orders was because a lot of us felt pissed that the files for the rev a and b's were made public and clones started popping up out of china before anyone had their order or the final board design was done.

[battletux]

No, **** you.

Exactly.

[dgneo]

We good 

EDIT: Looks like the PCB is on TechKeys now too: http://techkeys.us/collections/accessories/products/gh60

[Turkishrambo]

Guess i am in the market for plates and cases now... someone start a gb! stat!

[domoaligato]

Holding back the Rev C schematics is pointless.
It has been almost 3 1/2 years since the original prototyping thread, and there are newer, more mature designs out there that accomplish all of the original design ideas of the gh60 and more.
The gh60 is also based on the atmel mega32u4 which newer better chips are also available now.
We do not know the whole story around techkeys selling gh60's.
It could have been part of the original buy to help us hit a better tier, and now he is trying to sell them before he is at a even bigger loss because of the newer pcb design's.

We do not know the full story and i3oilermaker, does not have to tell us.

Realize that i3oilermaker, a community member that has always supported this community by making investments into our projects is techkeys.us

Before you try to rally pitchforks over something, make sure you have the full story.
And in this occasion he would have all rights to tell you to mind your own business.

[Prelim]

lol, pointless post

you are basically saying that we should know the whole story before criticizing, the same story which nobody knows (you included) and even will never know. brilliant 

[domoaligato]

lol, pointless post

you are basically saying that we should know the whole story before criticizing, the same story which nobody knows (you included) and even will never know. brilliant 

This post is also pointless, because you seem to lack the ability to read a post and comprehend it.
TLDR from above: Mind your own business.

This discussion of the pcb's on techkeys.us is also a waste of time because both Prelim and Battletux have both already received there gh60 rev c pcb's.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78955.0

[Prelim]

yes I have received my pcb, but still DO CARE about this groupbuy. I can't say the same thing of you...

For instance, I've talked to @komar 2 weeks ago and find outrageous that he still didn't received his pcb while someone is already selling those on shop :/

[stoic-lemon]

No pitchforks here. I am just happy to be actually getting the damn thing (maybe). I really could not care less who is first since we are years behind schedule now. Good luck and godspeed to Techkeys. I also need to find a cheap case for this now.

[Prelim]

[...] I also need to find a cheap case for this now.

maybe this then www.aliexpress.com/item/GH60-compact-keyboard-base-seat-POKERII-60-mechanical-keyboard-poker2-plastic-frame-case-gaming-keyboard-FACEU/32448283161.html

[mashby]

I didn't join this group buy because I wanted to be the first to have this PCB -- good thing right?  )

Personally, I have no issues with !3oilermaker selling the GH60 Rev C. There are plenty of people that missed the "opportunity" to get one of these PCBs and I'm glad that he invested in getting more boards made.

[i3oilermaker]

I will chime in here since there seems to be split opinions here.

For what its worth, I asked for permissions from GH Mods, GH60 GB Organizers, and GH60 Creators before proceeding.

There are plenty of people who missed out on the board since it was open for orders so long ago.

I understand some of your frustration over the GB, I have hundreds invested in the GH60 GB myself, but it will deliver in the very near future.

[iAmAhab]

No, **** you.

Exactly.

Disclaimer: This statement was not meant as support for your ridiculous whining.

[battletux]

This discussion of the pcb's on techkeys.us is also a waste of time because both Prelim and Battletux have both already received there gh60 rev c pcb's.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78955.0

Yes I have now received part of my order, the gh60 PCBs but am still awaiting a plate (which will likely be another 3 years before delivery  ). I just find it an insult that there are people STILL waiting for this that invested in it and that those who missed out can now just go out and buy it before everyone has gotten their pcb orders.

It grates that this could be allowed, shame on the mods and everyone else who approved i3oilermaker to do this while the GB is nowhere near finished. What about first asking those still waiting for their PCBs if it was ok to allow a commercial party to start producing a rev C clone? To have the boards ready to ship means this was agreed and set into motion MONTHS ago.

I hate to say it but it just stinks. It comes across to me as a geek hack clique looking out for each others interests and not those of the participants of the GB.

No one should have been allowed to sell a rev C clone board until AFTER the GB was closed and all orders for PCBs fulfilled.

[riotonthebay]

Holy ****, how does it actually matter? That techkeys.us is selling PCBs has literally no effect on anyone in this group buy. The entitlement here is astonishing – it's been three years, and people are honestly angry that some are going to be able to get some outdated PCBs a few months earlier than them? We're lucky that this GB is being concluded at all, and wagging your finger at the people picking up the pieces is the truly shameful behavior here.

[komar007]

I think I need to add my 2 words too.

First thing:

yes I have received my pcb, but still DO CARE about this groupbuy. I can't say the same thing of you...

For instance, I've talked to @komar 2 weeks ago and find outrageous that he still didn't received his pcb while someone is already selling those on shop :/

I haven't received any PCBs from the GB because I didn't order any. So no need to be outraged.

And as for rev. C in techkeys.us, I see no reason to frown. The board was invented by jdcarpe and designed by me and both of us have agreed to stock the boards in Brad's store. The fact that someone invested their money and hasn't received their board (YET!) is sad but gives no right to decide what happens to the files and who gets permission to use them.

But how have TechKeys gotten the Schematics? They didn't design the board, Komar did, and as far as I'm aware I've not seen that the schematics have been released for the Rev C (but I could be wrong). What they are doing is ****ty when their are people still invested in this GB who have not yet received their orders. Yes they are a business, but this was a community project. THATS the difference.


For them to sell it before everyone has their orders stinks. I respect your right to your opinion but their move is still crappy.


With regards to the Taobao/Satan/China versions, they are all based on the Rev B or A that were not the final product. The reason why the rev C board schematics were not going to be released until everyone had their orders was because a lot of us felt pissed that the files for the rev a and b's were made public and clones started popping up out of china before anyone had their order or the final board design was done.

If you're wondering how the production files got to techkeys.us, it's simple - I gave them to techkeys.us and it is not the only store to offer GH60 rev. C now or in the near future.
We did agree once that we should wait with releasing the rev. C files, but the situation has changed significantly since then and I don't see a reason to bury a good project because of one failed GB.

As for not releasing rev. C publicly - the only reason it's not done yet is because I'm still working on it - it requires conversion of the whole project to kicad's new format and it takes a while to clean everything up.
According to our previous settlements with jdcarpe, the released version will have no official GH60 logo and the version with the logo, affiliated directly to geekhack, will be only given to businesses which have been granted our permission and the way this version can be altered by a store will be controlled by us.

[nubbinator]

If you want to blame someone, blame WFD and TJ for letting it become a total disaster.  i3oilermaker has contributed a ton to various projects, purchasing blocks to help hit MOQ, helping with the Cherry legend project, and so on.  You can't expect him to just sit on this forever, especially with more advanced PCBs coming out.  He was probably expecting to have these in his shop at least a year and a half ago since the buy was supposed to be finished over two years ago now instead of sitting in some warehouse in China and someone's house.

Is it annoying that there's a route for US purchases that will probably get out before the people who took part in the GB get theirs?  Hell yes it is, but that is not his fault.  It's the fault of WFD and TJ.  And it's their fault that people have to pay shipping again.

[cyberwave]

what about non-US and non-Canada orders?

sorry if this has been mentioned before 

[SpAmRaY]

what about non-US and non-Canada orders?

sorry if this has been mentioned before 

bunnylake is still waiting on the rest of the parts to be shipped to him before he can continue fulfilling orders

[HoffmanMyster]

It grates that this could be allowed, shame on the mods and everyone else who approved i3oilermaker to do this while the GB is nowhere near finished.

At the risk of coming across overly defensive (and assuming this might be referring to myself, among other mods), I'll just comment on this from my own involvement.  i3oilermaker reached out to me asking if he could stock the board and if there was any permission needed to use the GH60 logo.

My response, in full, was:

I don't think I'm the right person, since I had no hand in the creation/design of the boards.  Have you reached out to JD, Ron, or matt3o?  I don't actually even remember who owns the rights to the PCB design...but hopefully one of them would know who to ask.  Let me know if there is anything I can do to help. 

Now, maybe I'm making assumptions and jumping the gun - it's very likely that i3oilermaker reached out to other mods as well (mods that were actually involved in the project at the time).  I can't say one way or the other. 

I don't say any of this to contradict i3oiler's message or taint his message in any way.  As I said, it's very likely that he did reach out to others.  But to say "shame on the mods" is rather presumptuous.

[Prelim]

I think I need to add my 2 words too.

First thing:
I haven't received any PCBs from the GB because I didn't order any. So no need to be outraged.

And as for rev. C in techkeys.us, I see no reason to frown. The board was invented by jdcarpe and designed by me and both of us have agreed to stock the boards in Brad's store. The fact that someone invested their money and hasn't received their board (YET!) is sad but gives no right to decide what happens to the files and who gets permission to use them.

I totally misunderstood you before then... I thought you were waiting for you pcb order but anyway, for me doesn't make any sense the pcb designer still not having his own pcb at this time point. Also, if you feel Ok with techkeys selling rev.C right now, that's enough for me

/over and out!

[Glissant]

If you have a problem with the PCB being available through a different source than this GB then you must be insane. There were REAL issues with this group buy that we needed people to talk about for YEARS. Where were you when that was happening?
Whatever.

[jdcarpe]

I just wanted to add that TechKeys (and others) have mine and komar's blessing to sell the Rev. C PCBs. If anyone has a problem with it, then you have a problem with me and komar, not i3oilermaker. We made the decision to allow TechKeys to sell these. Any version being sold with the community logo must have our permission to use that logo, and it must always reference geekhack.org.

We knew it would anger some people to allow these to be sold before all the GB PCBs shipped, but decided the benefit outweighed the negative aspects. I had asked komar to release the Rev. C gerbers over a year ago, as I had basically given up hope that the GB orders would ship. I certainly appreciate the efforts of BunnyLake, matt3o, samwisekoi, mashby, HoffmanMyster, and SpAmRaY to salvage this GB and resurrect it from the ashes.

FYI, I have a GB order which I have not received yet, but I'm not angry in the least that TechKeys has these for sale before I receive my GB order. In fact, I ordered a PCB from TechKeys last night, as soon as they went on sale.

[domoaligato]

What about first asking those still waiting for their PCBs if it was ok to allow a commercial party to start producing a rev C clone?
No one should have been allowed to sell a rev C clone board until AFTER the GB was closed and all orders for PCBs fulfilled.

These pcb's are not "CLONE PCB's". There is no such thing because this is an Open Source Hardware Project.
When komar finishes converting the files, they will now be available to the community sooner, so that we can use them for our own projects.
Then we can make a gh60 that supports alps or whatever other crazy things you might think of.

[axtran]

What about first asking those still waiting for their PCBs if it was ok to allow a commercial party to start producing a rev C clone?
No one should have been allowed to sell a rev C clone board until AFTER the GB was closed and all orders for PCBs fulfilled.

These pcb's are not "CLONE PCB's". There is no such thing because this is an Open Source Hardware Project.
When komar finishes converting the files, they will now be available to the community sooner, so that we can use them for our own projects.
Then we can make a gh60 that supports alps or whatever other crazy things you might think of.

hasu already made Alps64

[heedpantsnow]

Also there have been other group buys where people could order and receive the goods from a vendor before everyone got their GB order. It's more common than you think.

[swill]

I bought one of John Crouse's boards.  I have details of the transaction.  I have tried to get in touch with him, but have not been able to yet since he left the community about 2 years ago.  How do I handle this?  I don't know if his address details are correct, so I don't even know if the contents of his order will ever actually be delivered to him (and in turn to me).  I am sure there are a bunch of situations like this, so a little clarity on this type of situation would be helpful. 

Thanks everyone...

[riotonthebay]

I bought one of John Crouse's boards.  I have details of the transaction.  I have tried to get in touch with him, but have not been able to yet since he left the community about 2 years ago.  How do I handle this?  I don't know if his address details are correct, so I don't even know if the contents of his order will ever actually be delivered to him (and in turn to me).  I am sure there are a bunch of situations like this, so a little clarity on this type of situation would be helpful. 

Thanks everyone...

I did as well. jcrouse's sales were documented in his thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52270.msg1157303#msg1157303

It looks like Hoff is assigned as jcrouse's proxy, so he might be able to send things directly, but it's probably better to see whether jcrouse responds first as I'd rather not make more work for the proxies.

[swill]

I bought one of John Crouse's boards.  I have details of the transaction.  I have tried to get in touch with him, but have not been able to yet since he left the community about 2 years ago.  How do I handle this?  I don't know if his address details are correct, so I don't even know if the contents of his order will ever actually be delivered to him (and in turn to me).  I am sure there are a bunch of situations like this, so a little clarity on this type of situation would be helpful. 

Thanks everyone...

I did as well. jcrouse's sales were documented in his thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52270.msg1157303#msg1157303

It looks like Hoff is assigned as jcrouse's proxy, so he might be able to send things directly, but it's probably better to see whether jcrouse responds first as I'd rather not make more work for the proxies.

I emailed him again this morning, so I will wait a few days to see if he gets back to me.

[SpAmRaY]

I bought one of John Crouse's boards.  I have details of the transaction.  I have tried to get in touch with him, but have not been able to yet since he left the community about 2 years ago.  How do I handle this?  I don't know if his address details are correct, so I don't even know if the contents of his order will ever actually be delivered to him (and in turn to me).  I am sure there are a bunch of situations like this, so a little clarity on this type of situation would be helpful. 

Thanks everyone...

I'll just say up front with the mess this group buy is we won't be able to make everything right but I'm going to do my best to get people what they ordered and I'm sure the other proxies are of the same opinion.

The wheels are in motion and people will slowly be receiving address confirmation emails, I'll post here when I've sent them all out but fair warning I only got 5 done last night. 

And I'm fine with people contacting me about any orders in my list, specifically if you aren't on the list (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41464.msg2057098#msg2057098)  but bought something from someone who is.

[HoffmanMyster]

I bought one of John Crouse's boards.  I have details of the transaction.  I have tried to get in touch with him, but have not been able to yet since he left the community about 2 years ago.  How do I handle this?  I don't know if his address details are correct, so I don't even know if the contents of his order will ever actually be delivered to him (and in turn to me).  I am sure there are a bunch of situations like this, so a little clarity on this type of situation would be helpful. 

Thanks everyone...

I did as well. jcrouse's sales were documented in his thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52270.msg1157303#msg1157303

It looks like Hoff is assigned as jcrouse's proxy, so he might be able to send things directly, but it's probably better to see whether jcrouse responds first as I'd rather not make more work for the proxies.

If anyone purchased a board from someone on my list, feel free to contact me via PM.  I've made a mental note of swill and riot, but I'm sure there will be others as well.  (I do see moogle and jorgenslee as buyers from jcrouse too)

[pix3l_fodder]

Any word on EU and plates?

[HoffmanMyster]

BTW, samwisekoi has been posting to Instagram with his progress.  I'll just re-post it here so people can finally see the actual product. 

Sorry for the crappy screenshot, shame you can't just save the pics.

[jdcarpe]

Any word on EU and plates?

It's probably much easier to sort the North American orders first, and send them on to the shipping proxies, then assume that everything else goes to the EU. Rather than, you know, sorting the EU stuff first, then sorting all the NA orders anyway. You guys got PCBs first anyway, so it's only fair we get the plates first this time.

[HoffmanMyster]

Any word on EU and plates?

It's probably much easier to sort the North American orders first, and send them on to the shipping proxies, then assume that everything else goes to the EU. Rather than, you know, sorting the EU stuff first, then sorting all the NA orders anyway. You guys got PCBs first anyway, so it's only fair we get the plates first this time.

That is what he's doing.    And double/triple checking before sending anything out, to be sure we don't jump the gun.  Regardless of the speed, Ron is being thorough as always, which is paramount considering the level of disorganization involved.

[demik]

who do i talk to about moose's stuff since he's permabanned? i can forward it to him, or be the middle man for any communication.

OR HE CAN GET UNBANNED

#FREEMOOSE

[HoffmanMyster]

who do i talk to about moose's stuff

PM his proxy.  We will be sending emails for confirmation so he should be fine though.

[demik]

gracias houf

[samwisekoi]

Hi there.  Better pic attached.

US plates packed.  Double-checking the tiny differences in a couple of them.

(Oddly enough, whomever cut and sorted the plates wasn't totally hep to the differences between "ANSI 1.50" and "ANSI 1.50 Pure".)  I am trying to become hep to them now.

I am going to do plates, then PCBs, then switches and stabs.  I am sure I will enjoy the switches and stabs!

I'll try and Instagram updates as I go.  I am keeping Matt3o and the proxies up to date.

Cheers!

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[jorgenslee]

I bought one of John Crouse's boards.  I have details of the transaction.  I have tried to get in touch with him, but have not been able to yet since he left the community about 2 years ago.  How do I handle this?  I don't know if his address details are correct, so I don't even know if the contents of his order will ever actually be delivered to him (and in turn to me).  I am sure there are a bunch of situations like this, so a little clarity on this type of situation would be helpful. 

Thanks everyone...

I did as well. jcrouse's sales were documented in his thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52270.msg1157303#msg1157303

It looks like Hoff is assigned as jcrouse's proxy, so he might be able to send things directly, but it's probably better to see whether jcrouse responds first as I'd rather not make more work for the proxies.

If anyone purchased a board from someone on my list, feel free to contact me via PM.  I've made a mental note of swill and riot, but I'm sure there will be others as well.  (I do see moogle and jorgenslee as buyers from jcrouse too)

Would you consider shipping internationally? I do hope we could contact jcrouse as I have paid around $20 for the shipping fee.

[SpAmRaY]

I'm about halfway done sending out address confirmations (I've gotten 4 responses so far.), found this cool little program called Ditto, makes pasting the same things over and over really easy.

Anyways I'm done for the night.

[swill]

I bought one of John Crouse's boards.  I have details of the transaction.  I have tried to get in touch with him, but have not been able to yet since he left the community about 2 years ago.  How do I handle this?  I don't know if his address details are correct, so I don't even know if the contents of his order will ever actually be delivered to him (and in turn to me).  I am sure there are a bunch of situations like this, so a little clarity on this type of situation would be helpful. 

Thanks everyone...

I did as well. jcrouse's sales were documented in his thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52270.msg1157303#msg1157303

It looks like Hoff is assigned as jcrouse's proxy, so he might be able to send things directly, but it's probably better to see whether jcrouse responds first as I'd rather not make more work for the proxies.

If anyone purchased a board from someone on my list, feel free to contact me via PM.  I've made a mental note of swill and riot, but I'm sure there will be others as well.  (I do see moogle and jorgenslee as buyers from jcrouse too)

Would you consider shipping internationally? I do hope we could contact jcrouse as I have paid around $20 for the shipping fee.

Yes. I also paid him about the same in shipping. When it comes down to it, I don't mind paying for shipping again. It sucks,  but at least the entire investment is not lost thanks to these wonderful gentlemen.

[swill]

I'm about halfway done sending out address confirmations (I've gotten 4 responses so far.), found this cool little program called Ditto, makes pasting the same things over and over really easy.

Anyways I'm done for the night.

I am probably late to the game with this,  but if you guys could use some sort of scripting or helper programs built to facilitate this process,  just let me know.