The Living Soldering Thread

[Dreamre]

One more question guys - is buying older solder bad?

I'm thinking of getting this one off CL:

http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/yrk/for/4362744284.html

Is this the correct one?

Thanks!

[swill]

One more question guys - is buying older solder bad?

I'm thinking of getting this one off CL:

http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/yrk/for/4362744284.html

Is this the correct one?

Thanks!

Ming has a really good post about this in here somewhere.  He explained how the flux and solder behave over long periods.  In short, solder has a limited shelf life.  I think it was about a year.  So use your judgement...

[mkawa]

2-3 years. flux is corrosive. there are degrees of corrosive, but it's corrosive. two bad things happen to old solder. 1) it forms an oxide layer. that means you need flux to get to your flux. what? yah. 2) the flux inside the drawn wire can eat its way out. if it fails to do that it will slowly de-activate. the radical bits will run off, basically, and you'll just be soldering with tree sap. boooring!

[sublime]

Hey all,

I'm desoldering a keyboard so I can replace the switches.

However, when doing so the solder melts inside the hole where the switch pin is placed and I am unable to remove it. Because of this, the switch cannot be removed.

How can I fix my problem and remove this solder?

Thanks

[MOZ]

Add more solder.

What are you using for desoldering?

[sublime]

Add more solder.

What are you using for desoldering?

A solder sucker. Should I try a wick?

[Photekq]

Add more solder.

What are you using for desoldering?

A solder sucker. Should I try a wick?

Wick is practically useless for desoldering through-hole components like switches. Just add more solder and try again with the solder sucker.

[vun]

Add more solder.

What are you using for desoldering?

A solder sucker. Should I try a wick?

Wick is practically useless for desoldering through-hole components like switches. Just add more solder and try again with the solder sucker.

I actually found wick to be more useful than the sucker, although this was on an old board that had proper solder. Sucker is probably more useful with ROHS solder.

Can't really say I like the sucker tho; clumsy, feels inefficient and bothersome compared to wick.

[sublime]

I've tried over and over but the solder is down in the switch. The sucker just can't reach it all. Should I just get a wick, or am I missing something?

[BlueBär]

Did you add solder as suggested?

[sublime]

Yes I did. Whenever I add more solder and remove it, nothing changes. Is there a method so I can suck up the solder that's deep in the hole?

[Photoelectric]

Yes I did. Whenever I add more solder and remove it, nothing changes. Is there a method so I can suck up the solder that's deep in the hole?

In those cases, just heat up the pins with the tip of your soldering iron and prop your switch or LED from the other side with a flat head small screwdriver.  Heat each pin, and eventually your switch / LED will pop out safely (but watch out, it can fly off into the distance if you're not careful).  You need to prop your PCB vertically for that, and I usually put a rubber mat undermeath to avoid damaging the PCB and my work table.

[sublime]

Yes I did. Whenever I add more solder and remove it, nothing changes. Is there a method so I can suck up the solder that's deep in the hole?

In those cases, just heat up the pins with the tip of your soldering iron and prop your switch or LED from the other side with a flat head small screwdriver.  Heat each pin, and eventually your switch / LED will pop out safely (but watch out, it can fly off into the distance if you're not careful).  You need to prop your PCB vertically for that, and I usually put a rubber mat undermeath to avoid damaging the PCB and my work table.

Thanks for the tip, will definitely try that out!

[HoffmanMyster]

How safe is it to solder indoors? Would the fumes require good ventilation?

I solder in my room with just a USB fan blowing over the area.

I do the same but without the fan.  I like to live on the edge.  Plus, I've already breathed in so many chemicals throughout my schooling days that I figure what's a little more going to do?

[mkawa]

some fluxes are nasty than others. assembly line workers in lead-free processes are seriously in danger of health problems down the line (just one of the reasons the new electronics sweatshops are a serious human rights issue), but hobbyists probably won't get lung cancer from making a few joints without ventilation. if possible though, you are definitely better off with a charcoal filter. i had a very poorly made thread with humorous pictures of my USPS priority mail box-based active charcoal filters. i've since appropriated the fans to cool a very large compressor, but the based idea is radial fan -> box -> activated charcoal eg from aquarium store -> venting. activated charcoal works by being ionized and very granular, ie, having high surface area. this is also why the "activated charcoal mesh" is a joke. you need a ton of surface area, which means lots of finely crushed or roughly formed nuggets. once you have that though, you just need the nasty smelly stuff to get near the charcoal. you don't have to push a huge amount of air through it unless you're in a very confined space and you have a lot of fumes.

the bigger danger of leaded solder is the trace amounts of solder you get on your hands when you handle it. if you were to eat while soldering for a long period of time you might have issues with the lead exposure. your lung alveoli can handle some degree of filtration for particles as large as rosin flux fumes - they just have issues with the free radicals, and unactivated rosin is actually very inert. activated rosin like the fluxes we recommend in this thread are only a little more volatile. lead-free fluxes are poisonous as crap.

but lead just kind of builds up in your body like mercury. your blood filtration systems - kidney and liver - are not very good at filtering them and getting them outside of your body or converting them into anything inert.

[BlueBär]

i had a very poorly made thread with humorous pictures of my USPS priority mail box-based active charcoal filters. i've since appropriated the fans to cool a very large compressor, but the based idea is radial fan -> box -> activated charcoal eg from aquarium store -> venting. activated charcoal works by being ionized and very granular, ie, having high surface area. this is also why the "activated charcoal mesh" is a joke. you need a ton of surface area, which means lots of finely crushed or roughly formed nuggets. once you have that though, you just need the nasty smelly stuff to get near the charcoal. you don't have to push a huge amount of air through it unless you're in a very confined space and you have a lot of fumes.

This is my little fume sucker I made, although it's a thin layer of activated charcoal it leaves no smell in the room after soldering. However this sucks the fumes through the filter instead of pushing them inside like you describe it. Since they're so small I have them about 10-30cm away from my soldering area.

[mkawa]

carbon mesh isn't completely useless. i mean it does have granular carbon embedded in it. the issue is more that it has much less surface area than a small flat rate box with aquarium charcoal in it, and yet 6x6" mesh costs about as much as 5lbs of aquarium charcoal.

[Melvang]

I just solder in the basement and not worry about the fumes.  The little bit I do solder is nothing of a health hazard compared to the welding of carbon steel, with and without galvinized coatings, stainless steel, torching and plasma cutting all of the above, on top of the greases and different chemicals I use at work.  So, in my world lead poisioning from a bit of keyboard modding is pretty minimal. 

On a side note would someone care to look at this image and see if I am following the traces right for wiring this thing up?



I guess this is just being an electrical newb but correct me if I am wrong.  With the switch pressed electrical current would flow (assuming columns are output and rows are input according to the teensy):

into the pcb at 11, to pin at 1, across switch to pin at 2/3, to diode at pad 6 across diode to pad 9, then to the next switch at pad 20.

Help here would be greatly appreaciated.

[MOZ]

Built my Leeku 1800 and Phantom in the past two days, and I have to say, I like SMD soldering more (Leeku 1800 was SMD diodes, Phantom was through-hole). I screwed up on one switch diode on the Phantom, and it was a pain to get it desoldered. Once I did desolder it, I soldered an SD diode on the through-hole pads, works fine, and I think I should ahve done that for all the diodes from the beginning.

Really if the through-hole diodes are not in-switch, I see them being a pain to remove in the future, of course you should aim to just get it right the first time.

[tricheboars]

well last night was a failure. i got my ergodox yesterday and was super excited to get it going.

****ing balls of solder! the SMD pads on the ergodox are flippin tiny and when i apply solder to one of the pads to get going the solder just balls up.  i tried with and without flux added first and same result.

i was using a brand new 1.2mm hakko tip on my FX888. i had the iron set to 725F (which may have been a little too hot).  i was using kester 44 63/37 .031 solder. for additional flux i was using MG Chemicals 835 Rosin Flux.

What the hell am i doing wrong to cause these pads to ball up solder on them?

possible reasons:
1.  Iron was too hot
2.  Brand new tip was not as clean and tinned as much as it should have been (doubtful)
3.  Tip is just too big (solution would be to order .8mm tip instead of using my 1.2mm or stock 1.6mm tip).
4.  too much solder on the pads


i have never done SMD work before. this is all new to me. here is what i am thinking about solutions:

1.  buy hot air station (really dont want to do this)
2.  find some good solder paste in a syringe. but use iron to harden paste (not sure if even possible)
3.  buy the cheap heat gun linked on the OP and use with solder paste
4.  try a different brand of solder
5.  get a smaller tip for my hakko
6.  **** SMD break down and purchase through hole diodes from digikey (dont really want to do this especially since i just ordered 35 replacement 1N4148W-7-F diodes cause i ****ed some up last night)
7.  just try it again after thoroughly cleaning tip and set hakko to lower temperature (thinking like 675F)

please assist me solder gurus. i will pass the knowledge forward. also i convinced a work buddy of mine to purchase the ergodox and have to help him build his.

SMDs suck. luckily the ergodox PCBs are identical so the side i messed up (from desoldering diodes) cab just be flipped and start over no worries. basically the pads for two of the diodes got ripped up probably from being heated and cooled and then reheated again.

i have patience. i can do this. 

[BlueBär]

i was using a brand new 1.2mm hakko tip on my FX888. i had the iron set to 725F (which may have been a little too hot).

I think half of that would have been enough...

[MOZ]

Problems according to me:
1. Running iron too hot
2. Too much solder (This is a very common beginner problem)

What is your SMD soldering technique?

[tricheboars]

So i had it too hot? Can that cause solder to ball up?  What temp do you suggest for me?

[tricheboars]

So last night I would add solder to right smd pad first. Then hold diode with tweezers and heat the diode connector until it drops into the solder. Then add solder to left side pad.

[mkawa]

you should be smack dab at 350C at all times with kester 44 63/37

[MOZ]

So last night I would add solder to right smd pad first. Then hold diode with tweezers and heat the diode connector until it drops into the solder. Then add solder to left side pad.

This technique sounds right, do apply flux to the pads before adding solder and then again before place the the component.

[swill]

So last night I would add solder to right smd pad first. Then hold diode with tweezers and heat the diode connector until it drops into the solder. Then add solder to left side pad.

This technique sounds right, do apply flux to the pads before adding solder and then again before place the the component.

I had not thought of fluxing after the original solder.  That makes total sense now that you mention it.  Glad I got that tip before I got my boards.    I am guessing a flux pen is going to be the best tool for flux in this case?

[MOZ]

I use liquid flux and apply it using a brush.

[swill]

I use liquid flux and apply it using a brush.

cool, thanks...  i have a flux pen or standard flux, so i will try with the flux pen to start with.

[MOZ]

How you apply it should theoretically not make a difference.

[mkawa]

good flux should wet across the parts such that generalized application gives no benefit over localized application is what moz means.

[MOZ]

Yes,  yes the doctor said it better

[hasu]

Installed my new equipments yesterday; obsolete HAKKO 928 station got at $10 and two counterfeit 900M handles($7 or 8 each) from ebay. They are calibrated with fake HAKKO tip thermo also from ebay(around $15), LOL.

[MOZ]

As long as it floats your boat, right?

[Smasher816]

I'm planning on making a DIY HHKB controller

In the process I will need to connect a HHKB header to a teensy (ex: with a ribbon cable). The header has a 1.50mm pitch so any advice for making the soldering easier would be appreciated.

This is the header: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/B13B-ZR(LF)(SN)/455-1668-ND/926575


It should look something like this when completed

[mkawa]

26ga wire, and multiple workholders. basically, you want to get all your wires and contacts _in mechanical contact_ without using your hands. then your hands are free to do precise soldering. also see above for awesome jawesome head-mounted magnifier.

[stancato9]

Hey, can anyone recommend a good pair of flush cutters that are available through ebay or amazon.ca?

I have a small budget of $20. They don't have to be amazing, they just have to do their job.

Thanks!

[tjcaustin]

Hey, can anyone recommend a good pair of flush cutters that are available through ebay or amazon.ca?

I have a small budget of $20. They don't have to be amazing, they just have to do their job.

Thanks!

http://www.amazon.com/Wiha-Flush-Cutters-Degree-45821/dp/B004AFHUUE/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1396115620&sr=8-6&keywords=wiha+esd+cutters

I've used these for a year so far.  I'm just now thinking about replacing them.

[Melvang]

Would silver coated wire be sutible for a hand wired matrix or should I try and find some uncoated?  The problem I am having is locating 28 AWG in solid core version uncoated.

[Pacifist]

Installed my new equipments yesterday; obsolete HAKKO 928 station got at $10 and two counterfeit 900M handles($7 or 8 each) from ebay. They are calibrated with fake HAKKO tip thermo also from ebay(around $15), LOL.

Show Image

how safe is that?

[HoffmanMyster]

Would silver coated wire be sutible for a hand wired matrix or should I try and find some uncoated?  The problem I am having is locating 28 AWG in solid core version uncoated.

I faced the same issue a few months ago.  I ended up getting "artistic wire", which so far has worked wonderfully.  As I mentioned elsewhere, my build is not yet complete, but I've tested the traces and wires and everything is working perfectly so far. 

(And for my WIP pics, see this post)

[SpAmRaY]

Would silver coated wire be sutible for a hand wired matrix or should I try and find some uncoated?  The problem I am having is locating 28 AWG in solid core version uncoated.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magnet-Wire-28-Gauge-AWG-Enameled-Copper-1000-Feet-Coil-Winding-155C-Red-/171154241787

^^ Can't this be used?

[mkawa]

you're looking for magnet wire

[SpAmRaY]

you're looking for magnet wire

Would silver coated wire be sutible for a hand wired matrix or should I try and find some uncoated?  The problem I am having is locating 28 AWG in solid core version uncoated.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magnet-Wire-28-Gauge-AWG-Enameled-Copper-1000-Feet-Coil-Winding-155C-Red-/171154241787

^^ Can't this be used?

 

[HoffmanMyster]

you're looking for magnet wire

This is also the more correct answer.   

Though technically, it does have a coating, otherwise it would be worthless for winding.  (but that'll melt off as soon as you solder it)

[SpAmRaY]

you're looking for magnet wire

This is also the more correct answer.   

Though technically, it does have a coating, otherwise it would be worthless for winding.  (but that'll melt off as soon as you solder it)

Obviously everyone has me on their ignore list but the wire I linked above (you can find cheaper shorter runs of the same thing), from my understanding has a coating that is specifically made to be removed with the soldering iron.

[HoffmanMyster]

you're looking for magnet wire

This is also the more correct answer.   

Though technically, it does have a coating, otherwise it would be worthless for winding.  (but that'll melt off as soon as you solder it)

Obviously everyone has me on their ignore list but the wire I linked above (you can find cheaper shorter runs of the same thing), from my understanding has a coating that is specifically made to be removed with the soldering iron.

You are most definitely not on my ignore list (I don't have anyone ignored - yay!), I simply quoted the most recent reply to feature the answer, which also had the words written out rather than in link form.  And I know it'll melt off, I was just jabbing at mkawa because the request was for a bare wire. 

[Melvang]

Thanks for the info guys.  I guess I need to be a touch more specific.  I was looking for insulated wire when I came across this was what I had found.  I am using this with single switch PCB prototypes of my concept but Moz is doing the KiCad work as I can't seem to figure out that damn program.  I do want insulated.  I realize that magnet wire would work and in some of my research I have come across some that says the insulation functions as a flux when heat is applied (this could get interesting if used for a motor winding and it overheats drastically).  But I want to work with standard insulated wire for right now and was wondering if silver coated or even tinned copper wire would work ok, or if there are some particulars I should know when soldering with it.  I will only be ordering a 100' spool at most since I would only be using enough to go between switches.

[HoffmanMyster]

Thanks for the info guys.  I guess I need to be a touch more specific.  I was looking for insulated wire when I came across this was what I had found.  I am using this with single switch PCB prototypes of my concept but Moz is doing the KiCad work as I can't seem to figure out that damn program.  I do want insulated.  I realize that magnet wire would work and in some of my research I have come across some that says the insulation functions as a flux when heat is applied (this could get interesting if used for a motor winding and it overheats drastically).  But I want to work with standard insulated wire for right now and was wondering if silver coated or even tinned copper wire would work ok, or if there are some particulars I should know when soldering with it.  I will only be ordering a 100' spool at most since I would only be using enough to go between switches.

Oooohhh, I think I understand now.  You're looking at wire that is silver coated and insulated?  I wouldn't imagine that there would be any special considerations there, but I don't have experience with that.  Any particular reason you'd be seeking it out?

[Melvang]

Thanks for the info guys.  I guess I need to be a touch more specific.  I was looking for insulated wire when I came across this was what I had found.  I am using this with single switch PCB prototypes of my concept but Moz is doing the KiCad work as I can't seem to figure out that damn program.  I do want insulated.  I realize that magnet wire would work and in some of my research I have come across some that says the insulation functions as a flux when heat is applied (this could get interesting if used for a motor winding and it overheats drastically).  But I want to work with standard insulated wire for right now and was wondering if silver coated or even tinned copper wire would work ok, or if there are some particulars I should know when soldering with it.  I will only be ordering a 100' spool at most since I would only be using enough to go between switches.

Oooohhh, I think I understand now.  You're looking at wire that is silver coated and insulated?  I wouldn't imagine that there would be any special considerations there, but I don't have experience with that.  Any particular reason you'd be seeking it out?

Not really seeking it out but I can't seem to find any 28 ga wire in solid core that isn't coated.  I am going to bite the bullet on some when I get some money in my play account but until then salvaged IDE cables are working OK.