The Living Soldering Thread

[minho]

2) While attempting to desolder the mini USB on a Rosewill, I accidentally sucked up the pads on the PCB into the soldapullt. Is there any way to fix this (maybe insert solder from other side of PCB, opposite to the iron so the solder goes towards the iron..? Not sure)?

for a mini USB, i would find a point on the board that is electronically connected to that point and solder a 26-28ga jumper wire. when you're desoldering small surface mount pads, don't be afraid to pull your iron away too quickly, and it's fine to keep some distance between the soldapullt and the pad. the soldapullts have lots of suction and don't have to physically connect to the joint.

another option for connecting to a lifted pad is to use a craft knife to expose a little bit of copper trace that's leading away from the pad, flux that copper and then try to join the part to the exposed piece of trace. this can be tricky if things are really tight. the jumper wire is generally preferred. jumper wires are also used when you realize you made a mistake on a PCB _after_ you prototype it

Thanks!

Is this a common problem...? Or is the Rosewill PCB just low quality? I had my temperature set to a little above 700 F (maybe 710?)

[Melvang]

2) While attempting to desolder the mini USB on a Rosewill, I accidentally sucked up the pads on the PCB into the soldapullt. Is there any way to fix this (maybe insert solder from other side of PCB, opposite to the iron so the solder goes towards the iron..? Not sure)?

for a mini USB, i would find a point on the board that is electronically connected to that point and solder a 26-28ga jumper wire. when you're desoldering small surface mount pads, don't be afraid to pull your iron away too quickly, and it's fine to keep some distance between the soldapullt and the pad. the soldapullts have lots of suction and don't have to physically connect to the joint.

another option for connecting to a lifted pad is to use a craft knife to expose a little bit of copper trace that's leading away from the pad, flux that copper and then try to join the part to the exposed piece of trace. this can be tricky if things are really tight. the jumper wire is generally preferred. jumper wires are also used when you realize you made a mistake on a PCB _after_ you prototype it

Thanks!

Is this a common problem...? Or is the Rosewill PCB just low quality? I had my temperature set to a little above 700 F (maybe 710?)

It is fairly common.  The most common cause is either to much heat in the iron or heating the pad for to long.  Another option for repairing the pad if the trace is on that side of the board, is to solder a piece of a lead from an LED from the trace to the pin.

[mkawa]

Alright guys. I'm thinking about from my cheap $10 soldering iron... I don't want to spend a fortune but I suppose around a $100 max would be ok.

I know geekhackers.org carries the CL1481, but I can't help wonder for around that price if I might as well get a temperature controlled iron with its own stand. I'v seen a lot of people recommend the Hakko 888, but unfortunately the only the digital version around which seems a little more difficult to use but is not a deal breaker. I really don't want to read over all 70 pages of this thread and scour google for more info. Any suggestions?

i'm obviously biased here, but to present a factual point, a temperature controlled iron used with 63/37 kester 44 gets set to 350C and never moves from that temperature.

also, my 80$ kit comes with a stand (edsyn IP491).

but, as levar burton once said, you don't have to take my word for it. *cue reading rainbow outro*

[mkawa]

2) While attempting to desolder the mini USB on a Rosewill, I accidentally sucked up the pads on the PCB into the soldapullt. Is there any way to fix this (maybe insert solder from other side of PCB, opposite to the iron so the solder goes towards the iron..? Not sure)?

for a mini USB, i would find a point on the board that is electronically connected to that point and solder a 26-28ga jumper wire. when you're desoldering small surface mount pads, don't be afraid to pull your iron away too quickly, and it's fine to keep some distance between the soldapullt and the pad. the soldapullts have lots of suction and don't have to physically connect to the joint.

another option for connecting to a lifted pad is to use a craft knife to expose a little bit of copper trace that's leading away from the pad, flux that copper and then try to join the part to the exposed piece of trace. this can be tricky if things are really tight. the jumper wire is generally preferred. jumper wires are also used when you realize you made a mistake on a PCB _after_ you prototype it

Thanks!

Is this a common problem...? Or is the Rosewill PCB just low quality? I had my temperature set to a little above 700 F (maybe 710?)

very common, and one of the reasons that i absolutely can't stand desoldering wick (which also universally burns your fingers when you use it on top of everything). two tips: first, feed more solder onto a pad before soldering it; this generates more thermal mass so that it's harder to overheat the pad. second, cock your soldapullt and put it into position before heating the solder. then, touch your iron to the solder (not the pad!), and as soon as the solder goes molten, move your iron off the solder and hit the button.

[Melvang]

2) While attempting to desolder the mini USB on a Rosewill, I accidentally sucked up the pads on the PCB into the soldapullt. Is there any way to fix this (maybe insert solder from other side of PCB, opposite to the iron so the solder goes towards the iron..? Not sure)?

for a mini USB, i would find a point on the board that is electronically connected to that point and solder a 26-28ga jumper wire. when you're desoldering small surface mount pads, don't be afraid to pull your iron away too quickly, and it's fine to keep some distance between the soldapullt and the pad. the soldapullts have lots of suction and don't have to physically connect to the joint.

another option for connecting to a lifted pad is to use a craft knife to expose a little bit of copper trace that's leading away from the pad, flux that copper and then try to join the part to the exposed piece of trace. this can be tricky if things are really tight. the jumper wire is generally preferred. jumper wires are also used when you realize you made a mistake on a PCB _after_ you prototype it

Thanks!

Is this a common problem...? Or is the Rosewill PCB just low quality? I had my temperature set to a little above 700 F (maybe 710?)

very common, and one of the reasons that i absolutely can't stand desoldering wick (which also universally burns your fingers when you use it on top of everything). two tips: first, feed more solder onto a pad before soldering it; this generates more thermal mass so that it's harder to overheat the pad. second, cock your soldapullt and put it into position before heating the solder. then, touch your iron to the solder (not the pad!), and as soon as the solder goes molten, move your iron off the solder and hit the button.

I can vouch for the adding solder to the pads before attempting to desolder.  My first attempt at desoldering was a Phantom.  Now this board has plated through holes which can be much more difficult to desolder, especially when the person that built it adds enough solder to see it on the other side of the board.  I pulled a couple pads in that effort.  But this was also with a radio shack bulb type desoldering iron.  Since then I have gotten one of geekhackers modded soldapults.  I have desoldered about 5 boards since then all with lead free and or 20 year old solder.  I have gotten into the habit of adding leaded solder to all pads before attempting to desolder and haven't pulled one pad up yet.

[minho]

Just had another thought - would SMD have to be desoldered with wick...? Or else the soldapullt would suck up the diode?

[mkawa]

typically what i would do with a part that small is to suck up the solder on one side of the part, then use tweezers to hold the part, melt the solder on the other side and pull the part off. now you just have to pull as much of the lead-free solder off the remaining pad as possible and you're golden

[Smasher816]

i'm obviously biased here, but to present a factual point, a temperature controlled iron used with 63/37 kester 44 gets set to 350C and never moves from that temperature.

That makes sense. Any big reasons why someone would want to use a higher temperature? (Lower won't melt anything).

[mkawa]

lead-free solder. otherwise, a higher temperature is going to carbonize (aka burn to a crisp) your flux and it will not only cause gunk to build up on your iron but the flux will be less effective.

i've brazed 1/2" copper piping to a 1.5" coupler before with only kester 44 and my 2020 set at precisely 350C. heating things up is about power transmission not about thermostats.

[intelli78]

As per jdcarpe's suggestion I am cross posting some general newbie tips from the Q&A thread:

solder sucker + soldering iron to desolder 87 switches, my first project, am i being ambitious?

Here are a few tips I wish someone had given me before my first desoldering project:

- If it's a dual sided, thick PCB, leave the tip of the iron on the joint for a full 1-2 seconds (with temp around 600f) to ensure all of the solder liquifies. This will make it suck out much easier.

- If you are having trouble with a joint, heat it and add fresh solder, then attempt to remove again. works much better.

- You will probably have many switches where you remove 95% of the solder, but one or two of the pins are still stuck to the pad by a tiny amount of solder (again, mostly with double sided PCBs). If this happens, use the hot iron tip to free the pin while you pull the switch from the other side. If you're unlucky, two pins may do this at once, and you'll have to go back and forth between them. Just don't use force, or you'll pull out the copper trace and have a bigger problem.

Of course, if anyone wants to suggest even better techniques than these, go for it.

[Smasher816]

Thanks. I'll also be desoldering 87 switches in order to install some clears. Any advice helps

[domoaligato]

Thanks. I'll also be desoldering 87 switches in order to install some clears. Any advice helps

learn to use a soldapult or get a hakko 808 is my advice...

[intelli78]

OK, so I just tried my 808 for the first time,  and it's amazing!  But when I tried to coat the tip in solder when I was finished, it just beaded up and fell off. Would not stick at all. what's the deal, and how do I get it to stick?

[jbm]

A brief field report for my fellow soldering newbies: I built a RedBoard PTH kick yesterday[1]. It's the second SparkFun kit I've done - both were fun, worked as expected, and came with good instructions. I'd definitely be comfortable recommending them.

I did make the mistake of trying to have a conversation while I worked. It ended up okay though, because it gave me a chance to try my Soldapullt, which worked like a champ.

We could use a multimeter at work, so I'm planning to do the Elenco multimeter kit up on Geekhackers[2] soon.

[1] https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10908
[2] http://www.geekhackers.org/collections/electronics-kits/products/diy-multimeter-kit

[Smasher816]

Just thought I would provide a little update. Did the switch mod just fine, I know have a WASD v2 with Clears instead of browns (though I still like my topre better).

The edsyn desoldering pump was much larger in real life  then I expected. Took me a second to realize I had to push it in all the way inorder to remove the junk from the side of the tip. After that it went well.

Now that I have the hakko 888D, I have to say having a temperature controller iron is very nice. When soldering it would met at the touch - just add a dab and move on. Only took me a few seconds per switch. Desoldering was a little slower since it takes time to heat up the whole joint, but it still went well. The whole mod took me a few hours (maybe 3?) including taking off caps, desoldering, soldering, testing, reasembly, adding caps.

[mkawa]

OK, so I just tried my 808 for the first time,  and it's amazing!  But when I tried to coat the tip in solder when I was finished, it just beaded up and fell off. Would not stick at all. what's the deal, and how do I get it to stick?

may need more flux. also keep in mind that only about 2mm from the tip is tinned. the rest is plated with a material that solder will not melt onto.

[mkawa]

A brief field report for my fellow soldering newbies: I built a RedBoard PTH kick yesterday[1]. It's the second SparkFun kit I've done - both were fun, worked as expected, and came with good instructions. I'd definitely be comfortable recommending them.

I did make the mistake of trying to have a conversation while I worked. It ended up okay though, because it gave me a chance to try my Soldapullt, which worked like a champ.

We could use a multimeter at work, so I'm planning to do the Elenco multimeter kit up on Geekhackers[2] soon.

[1] https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10908
[2] http://www.geekhackers.org/collections/electronics-kits/products/diy-multimeter-kit

oooh, i didn't know sparkfun had a build-your-own arduino kit. that's cool!

[intelli78]

Thanks. I am using kester 44 63/37, and I have never had a problem getting it to stick to my iron. However, I think you're right that I need to buy some flux separately. What is your recommendation?

[mkawa]

mg chemicals 835 RA flux

[intelli78]

Will give it a shot,thanks!

[ninjadoc]

I just wanted to check back and say that the hakko 808 is worth every f^&*ing penny.
Thanks!

No doubt about that!

[mkawa]

speaking of the 808, apparently hakko just revised it into the fr-300

tequipment really likes it: http://www.tequipment.net/Hakko-808-vs-FR-300-Desoldering-Tool/

it has some minor but oft-requested features: power button, more compact, easer tip changing, and less vibration.

i'm a little worried about the increase in suction in its potential tendency to lift pads, but looks interesting regardless. if anyone picks one up, please review it here!

[tjcaustin]

speaking of the 808, apparently hakko just revised it into the fr-300

tequipment really likes it: http://www.tequipment.net/Hakko-808-vs-FR-300-Desoldering-Tool/

it has some minor but oft-requested features: power button, more compact, easer tip changing, and less vibration.

i'm a little worried about the increase in suction in its potential tendency to lift pads, but looks interesting regardless. if anyone picks one up, please review it here!

I might pick one up sometime in the near future.

[mkawa]

another thing that's crucial to report is whether it's still made in japan

[tjcaustin]

another thing that's crucial to report is whether it's still made in japan

The reviews I've seen say it is.  So does your link you gave earlier.  As does the detail page for the iron.

[mkawa]

oops. reading fail.

note i have a large investment in 808 tips, so i probably won't be upgrading...

[tjcaustin]

oops. reading fail.

note i have a large investment in 808 tips, so i probably won't be upgrading...

When I need to get more tips will be when I upgrade probably.  I like everything about what I see with the new unit, though.

[HoffmanMyster]

speaking of the 808, apparently hakko just revised it into the fr-300

tequipment really likes it: http://www.tequipment.net/Hakko-808-vs-FR-300-Desoldering-Tool/

it has some minor but oft-requested features: power button, more compact, easer tip changing, and less vibration.

i'm a little worried about the increase in suction in its potential tendency to lift pads, but looks interesting regardless. if anyone picks one up, please review it here!

Oooohhh, very intriguing.  I may have to pick one of these up.  I sold my 808 to ninjadoc when I needed cash, but now that I'm steady again I'm thinking about picking another one up.  The 808 made desoldering fun.  I want that again.   )

If I get one of these I'll be sure to post some comments about it here.   

[jbm]

I received my custom crossbar and stem (for use with Panavise 316 arms) from Melvang a couple weeks ago and finally had a chance to use them. They're a huge improvement over the equivalent parts that come with the Panavise 315, and Melvang is a great seller. Highly recommended if you're putting together a PCB holder.

Thanks Melvang!

[swill]

I received my custom crossbar and stem (for use with Panavise 316 arms) from Melvang a couple weeks ago and finally had a chance to use them. They're a huge improvement over the equivalent parts that come with the Panavise 315, and Melvang is a great seller. Highly recommended if you're putting together a PCB holder.

Thanks Melvang!

I have the same setup. Congrats, it is awesome. Make sure to get a an aluminum or steel plate with cut outs and you will have an awesome lube station as well.

+1 Melvang

[uns211]

How did I do on my first soldering job? Sorry about the mess; I don't have 99% isopropyl alcohol to clean off the flux.

[jbm]

I have the same setup. Congrats, it is awesome. Make sure to get a an aluminum or steel plate with cut outs and you will have an awesome lube station as well.

Hm, not sure I understand the part about a plate and cutouts. I've never lubed my switches so that's probably why. Do you have a pic showing the setup you're describing?

[swill]

I have the same setup. Congrats, it is awesome. Make sure to get a an aluminum or steel plate with cut outs and you will have an awesome lube station as well.

Hm, not sure I understand the part about a plate and cutouts. I've never lubed my switches so that's probably why. Do you have a pic showing the setup you're describing?

You can see it in action here.  Basically you put a plate in the PCB holder and put all your switches in the plate that you want to mod.  Then you open and mod them while secure in the plate, which is why you need the cutouts so you can remove the top cover of the switch.  Make sense?

[nubbinator]

How did I do on my first soldering job? Sorry about the mess; I don't have 99% isopropyl alcohol to clean off the flux.

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A little heavy on some of the joints, but not bad for a first time.

[BlueBär]

How did I do on my first soldering job? Sorry about the mess; I don't have 99% isopropyl alcohol to clean off the flux.

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Bit too much on the furthest to the left, first and third pin from the right could use more. Especially the one furthest to the right.

[HoffmanMyster]

How did I do on my first soldering job? Sorry about the mess; I don't have 99% isopropyl alcohol to clean off the flux.

Show Image

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Bit too much on the furthest to the left, first and third pin from the right could use more. Especially the one furthest to the right.

Also, furthest to the right looks a little cold to me, but it's hard to see.

[jbm]

You can see it in action here.  Basically you put a plate in the PCB holder and put all your switches in the plate that you want to mod.  Then you open and mod them while secure in the plate, which is why you need the cutouts so you can remove the top cover of the switch.  Make sense?

Indeed, makes a lot of sense - thanks

[mkawa]

FYI, melvang made another bath of crossbars and sent them to me. They'll be available more generally soon

[tjcaustin]

FYI, melvang made another bath of crossbars and sent them to me. They'll be available more generally soon

I should probably pick one of those up for the gh60s I'll need to build.

[minho]

Finished assembling my first full keyboard ever. GON NerD TKL - 121 resistors, 34 surface mount LEDs, and a lot more trough hole soldering (which I have never been more appreciative of after finishing all the SMD soldering). Encountered a few issues that I improvised with along the way because I was impatient about finishing this keyboard, but I figured now that I finished, I would ask for future reference (Duck Viper come to me please  )

1) What setup do you guys solder with (chairs/table height included)? I am rather focus minded, so once I start, I like to finish - soldered for 5 hours straight, with my back aching afterwards because I was always kind of hunched over trying to get the tweezers to poke the SMD into the little pool of solder correctly. I have a Panavise, but didn't use it because I was afraid that I would break the PCB if I applied too much pressure on it (have to rest my wrists on the table/PCB or else my hands shake way too much to do anything).

2) What is the best way to desolder a switch? I had to desolder a few times due to really dumb mistakes, and each time I found that I often had just a tiny bit of solder left over in the joint that would cause the switch to stick. Fortunately, it was often just one of the pins, so I could just heat it up and pull out the switch on the other side after the solder melted. It was a pain in the ass though, and made me wonder how people desolder entire boards - I was tired enough just desoldering 15 switches (and an LED in a switch, that was even harder). I used a soldapullt

3) Will 99% isopropyl alcohol damage the PCB? I didn't have 99% on hand, but on my techkeys business card (which is kind of like my test PCB), I tried i think about 70%? alcohol, which caused the PCB to become faded and dull instead of retaining its previous shininess.

[HoffmanMyster]

1) What setup do you guys solder with (chairs/table height included)? I am rather focus minded, so once I start, I like to finish - soldered for 5 hours straight, with my back aching afterwards because I was always kind of hunched over trying to get the tweezers to poke the SMD into the little pool of solder correctly. I have a Panavise, but didn't use it because I was afraid that I would break the PCB if I applied too much pressure on it (have to rest my wrists on the table/PCB or else my hands shake way too much to do anything).

I don't know the exact heights of my table/chair, but I have to hunch and it hurts my back.  That said, I'm really tall, so I hunch all the time and my back always hurts.  So I'm the wrong person to ask.  But as with everything ergo related, fitting things to your proper height will help.   

[minho]

I don't know the exact heights of my table/chair, but I have to hunch and it hurts my back.  That said, I'm really tall, so I hunch all the time and my back always hurts.  So I'm the wrong person to ask.  But as with everything ergo related, fitting things to your proper height will help.   

I would imagine higher table/shorter chair would help? I tried that (sat on a little foot stool), but then my shoulders are uncomfortably raised up higher.

[HoffmanMyster]

I don't know the exact heights of my table/chair, but I have to hunch and it hurts my back.  That said, I'm really tall, so I hunch all the time and my back always hurts.  So I'm the wrong person to ask.  But as with everything ergo related, fitting things to your proper height will help.   

I would imagine higher table/shorter chair would help? I tried that (sat on a little foot stool), but then my shoulders are uncomfortably raised up higher.

Personally, I prefer that the difference in height between the seat and table be fitted for me more than I care about the actual height from the floor.  But that's because it's silly to hope to find a chair/table that will go that high.  So I just lower the seat until my torso is comfortable.  Cause otherwise you're hunching over and it's uncomfortable.  But this is just my experience, and I'm sure it's different for everyone.

[tbc]

2) What is the best way to desolder a switch? I had to desolder a few times due to really dumb mistakes, and each time I found that I often had just a tiny bit of solder left over in the joint that would cause the switch to stick. Fortunately, it was often just one of the pins, so I could just heat it up and pull out the switch on the other side after the solder melted. It was a pain in the ass though, and made me wonder how people desolder entire boards - I was tired enough just desoldering 15 switches (and an LED in a switch, that was even harder). I used a soldapullt

it took me 4 hours for a fullsize board with a soldapult so hard

it was a cherry board with 'internal diodes' so it was like doing a whole board with LEDs.

[minho]

it took me 4 hours for a fullsize board with a soldapult so hard

it was a cherry board with 'internal diodes' so it was like doing a whole board with LEDs.

I'm so sorry...

[MOZ]

1. Not sure of the exact height, but, I have tried a couple of setups, and the one where I had to hunch a little was the one that worked best for me. Having the table a little higher so I don't have to arch my back so much didn't really work out as well, as it was uncomfortable for my hands.

2. I use a soldapullt and 9/10 times it will suck all the solder out of the holes, if it doesn't, I reapply some solder and repeat, there are however some stubborn joints, and they have to be removed as you said, heat the joint with one hand, pull the switch with the other.

3. It will work well, I think the reason 70% might not have worked as well is that the flux would have spread on the whole PCB via the dilute IPA, use 99% and give it a couple of good wipes, PCB should be nice and shiny.

[tjcaustin]

To pay for the new hakko desoldering iron I want, I should rent my 808 out to DIY keyboarders...

[minho]

1. Not sure of the exact height, but, I have tried a couple of setups, and the one where I had to hunch a little was the one that worked best for me. Having the table a little higher so I don't have to arch my back so much didn't really work out as well, as it was uncomfortable for my hands.

2. I use a soldapullt and 9/10 times it will suck all the solder out of the holes, if it doesn't, I reapply some solder and repeat, there are however some stubborn joints, and they have to be removed as you said, heat the joint with one hand, pull the switch with the other.

3. It will work well, I think the reason 70% might not have worked as well is that the flux would have spread on the whole PCB via the dilute IPA, use 99% and give it a couple of good wipes, PCB should be nice and shiny.

Thanks! Regarding desoldering switches, do you like to desolder a lot of joints before you start trying to pull switches out? Or do you go one by one?

[SpAmRaY]

To pay for the new hakko desoldering iron I want, I should rent my 808 out to DIY keyboarders...

Do they include a stand with the new model?

[tjcaustin]

To pay for the new hakko desoldering iron I want, I should rent my 808 out to DIY keyboarders...

Do they include a stand with the new model?

It doesn't look like it, but it has a quick change system for the tips so I would assume there's a base to do that.  Dunno for sure.