NOW OPEN SOURCE!!! swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]

[KHAANNN]

By the way, I initially saw swillkb builder from reddit, however I wasn't able to use the tool for a long time as I thought the textarea was for keyboard-layout-editor links and not "Raw Data" as it explains :)

So after seeing the "Parse error on line 1" message, I always thought the builder was glitched atm and left

It might be a good idea to check the textarea for "keyboard-layout-editor.com" existence, and show a funny error message explaining that the user should post the data instead and not the link :)

[KHAANNN]

Hey swill

I mentioned earlier that I think the stab cutouts should be pushed further instead of being pulled, pulling the costar cutouts only made the issue worse theoretically (the issue is the far side of the stab insert rubbing to the slider, the switch is constant, so the cutout should be pushed further to relax the assembly)

I ~verified this hypothesis today, the costar stabs fit perfectly, so I don't think the issue is caused by printing error

I also visually compared this to a WASD V2 costar cutout, the WASD V2 one is almost further by 1mm, that's a lot

Can you explain the reasoning behind the current calculations?

There are a lot of people using your builder, if the calculations are wrong, all those plates will be wasted



I think one sure way to conclude the issue is to check a bare WASD V2 plate's cutout positioning

[swill]

By the way, I initially saw swillkb builder from reddit, however I wasn't able to use the tool for a long time as I thought the textarea was for keyboard-layout-editor links and not "Raw Data" as it explains

So after seeing the "Parse error on line 1" message, I always thought the builder was glitched atm and left

It might be a good idea to check the textarea for "keyboard-layout-editor.com" existence, and show a funny error message explaining that the user should post the data instead and not the link

My initial idea was to allow for just the URL, but it proved to be very difficult. Your idea is solid and I can look into implementing that. . Thx...

[swill]

Hey swill

I mentioned earlier that I think the stab cutouts should be pushed further instead of being pulled, pulling the costar cutouts only made the issue worse theoretically (the issue is the far side of the stab insert rubbing to the slider, the switch is constant, so the cutout should be pushed further to relax the assembly)

I ~verified this hypothesis today, the costar stabs fit perfectly, so I don't think the issue is caused by printing error

I also visually compared this to a WASD V2 costar cutout, the WASD V2 one is almost further by 1mm, that's a lot

Can you explain the reasoning behind the current calculations?

There are a lot of people using your builder, if the calculations are wrong, all those plates will be wasted

(Attachment Link)

I think one sure way to conclude the issue is to check a bare WASD V2 plate's cutout positioning

I will review this when I have a minute. Can you clarify your positioning terminology. Is push towards the top and pull towards the bottom?

I am currently in the arctic, so I have less time for real analysis right now. I will review and respond when I have some time.

[KHAANNN]

The drawing is a failure, yet it demonstrates the direction that I mean when I say push further

The switch, keycap and the costar inserts are constants;
so the costar cutouts, therefore the slider needs to be pushed further in the direction I drawed, so that the slider rubbing is eliminated

I'm 100% confident I want them pushed for my usage, so I might end up moving them myself eventually, but I'm not 100% confident that the calculations are flawed, as 3d printing isn't precise, yet the costar slider fit perfectly, that's why I don't think the issue is with 3d printing in this case (the slider isn't stressed either, it's just mislocated)

This is the most precise costar photo/video I found online:

- as you can see, the cutout is pretty close to the top, when inserted, the nudge of the slider is aligned with the nudge of the switch, that's where I deducted the 1mm error, the nudge of the slider is much lower on my 3d printed part

[wes1099]

If I understand correctly, everything in this tool works correctly except for the stabilizer placement right? I want to use this tool to get plate printed for my infinity keyboard but I want to make sure that it will work correctly because I do not have lots of money and I can not spend money on plates that don't work correctly.

[KHAANNN]

If I understand correctly, everything in this tool works correctly except for the stabilizer placement right? I want to use this tool to get plate printed for my infinity keyboard but I want to make sure that it will work correctly because I do not have lots of money and I can not spend money on plates that don't work correctly.

We're on the same boat :)

I'm also going to enlarge the plate from the left by 1-2mm, otherwise there is a huge gap

I think the original plate used this tool too, or the same calculations, that's the cause of the stabiliser issues, from my experiments, the same issues persist

[wes1099]

If I understand correctly, everything in this tool works correctly except for the stabilizer placement right? I want to use this tool to get plate printed for my infinity keyboard but I want to make sure that it will work correctly because I do not have lots of money and I can not spend money on plates that don't work correctly.

We're on the same boat

I'm also going to enlarge the plate from the left by 1-2mm, otherwise there is a huge gap

I think the original plate used this tool too, or the same calculations, that's the cause of the stabiliser issues, from my experiments, the same issues persist

You mean there is a gap on the left between the plate and the case? I want to make a plate for infinity keyboard that fits in a poker II case, and I don't want a gap between the plate and the case.

[wes1099]

This is weird. When i copy and paste code from keyboard-layout-editor.com, it puts {y:1.5} next to the first row which extends the plate on the top and does not generate holes for screws. When i delete the {y:1.5} then it looks normal and the screw holes are generated. Here are some pics, the first one is with {y:1.5} on the first row and the second one is without:





Here is a pic of the code I am talking about:

[shaymdev]

This is weird. When i copy and paste code from keyboard-layout-editor.com, it puts {y:1.5} next to the first row which extends the plate on the top and does not generate holes for screws. When i delete the {y:1.5} then it looks normal and the screw holes are generated. Here are some pics, the first one is with {y:1.5} on the first row and the second one is without:

This one has come up a few times. Maybe it would be worth including some note about this in the tool.

As Vinny pointed out. Remove the '{y:1.5},' from the first line in the raw dara you pasted into the tool and it will fix it.

In the editor UI you just removed the keys from a preset 104 layout, but did not remove the space taken up by the function row in the original layout.

[VinnyCordeiro]

This is weird. When i copy and paste code from keyboard-layout-editor.com, it puts {y:1.5} next to the first row which extends the plate on the top and does not generate holes for screws. When i delete the {y:1.5} then it looks normal and the screw holes are generated. Here are some pics, the first one is with {y:1.5} on the first row and the second one is without:

Show Image

Show Image

Here is a pic of the code I am talking about:

Show Image

That is because you forgot to reposition the keys in the editor. You can do that or just delete the {y:1.5} parameter to correct that.

[swill]

This is weird. When i copy and paste code from keyboard-layout-editor.com, it puts {y:1.5} next to the first row which extends the plate on the top and does not generate holes for screws. When i delete the {y:1.5} then it looks normal and the screw holes are generated. Here are some pics, the first one is with {y:1.5} on the first row and the second one is without:

Show Image

Show Image

Here is a pic of the code I am talking about:

Show Image

That is because you forgot to reposition the keys in the editor. You can do that or just delete the {y:1.5} parameter to correct that.

Yes. As he just specified. When you removed the function row, you did not cleanup the vertical space that the function row took up. The tool is behaving correctly.

I should check if the poker case is selected and remove it via the code if users forget to cleanup their layout before building. I will put that on the feature list for my rebuild.

[KHAANNN]

If I understand correctly, everything in this tool works correctly except for the stabilizer placement right? I want to use this tool to get plate printed for my infinity keyboard but I want to make sure that it will work correctly because I do not have lots of money and I can not spend money on plates that don't work correctly.

We're on the same boat

I'm also going to enlarge the plate from the left by 1-2mm, otherwise there is a huge gap

I think the original plate used this tool too, or the same calculations, that's the cause of the stabiliser issues, from my experiments, the same issues persist

You mean there is a gap on the left between the plate and the case? I want to make a plate for infinity keyboard that fits in a poker II case, and I don't want a gap between the plate and the case.

Yes, manual modifications are needed to make the plate perfect for the infinitykb, the 6th screw hole also needs some reinforcements

Such modifications can't be done from swillkb's builder, so I'm planning on patching the plate once I'm satisfied with everything else

Suggestions:
- Advanced options to modify/omit 60% screw holes
- The option to enlarge the plate from a chosen side (left/right/top/bottom - each separately)
- New building options for 3d printing - https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72183.0 - vvp has these gaps in his thick plate design that enables switches to latch on, also each stabiliser would use some space in a 5mm plate - I'm going to add these modifications manually myself - would be great to have them as a part of the builder (so instead of printing a 1.5mm plate, I decided to make it 5mm, the stabiliser areas will be emptied to make room for them)

[wes1099]

This is weird. When i copy and paste code from keyboard-layout-editor.com, it puts {y:1.5} next to the first row which extends the plate on the top and does not generate holes for screws. When i delete the {y:1.5} then it looks normal and the screw holes are generated. Here are some pics, the first one is with {y:1.5} on the first row and the second one is without:

Show Image

Show Image

Here is a pic of the code I am talking about:

Show Image

That is because you forgot to reposition the keys in the editor. You can do that or just delete the {y:1.5} parameter to correct that.

Yes. As he just specified. When you removed the function row, you did not cleanup the vertical space that the function row took up. The tool is behaving correctly.

I should check if the poker case is selected and remove it via the code if users forget to cleanup their layout before building. I will put that on the feature list for my rebuild.

Oh that makes sense. Thanks.

[wes1099]

So what exactly is the deal with the stabilizer placement? What about it needs to be fixed?

[swill]

So what exactly is the deal with the stabilizer placement? What about it needs to be fixed?

I will review it on Tuesday night when I am back from the arctic and have a chance to review this with khan (sorry for spelling, on phone).

[Zustiur]

SWill, is it still possible to export to .svg?
I tried using .dxf and 'exploding' the diagram but inkscape just tells me "No paths to break apart in the selection".

[KHAANNN]

SWill, is it still possible to export to .svg?
I tried using .dxf and 'exploding' the diagram but inkscape just tells me "No paths to break apart in the selection".

You might import the model to Tinkercad on a browser than export a 2D .svg

Arctic? lol :) - I've always interpreted it as "Attic"

Well, once you are available, I might print some alternative 2u balanced cutouts and review the experience, in the meantime, it would be great if someone could share an 2u cutout of a WASD V2

I was going to service my WASD V2's, I might just do that and take photos of the 2u cutouts by desoldering them just for the photos/comparisons - but likely not in a week

[swill]

SWill, is it still possible to export to .svg?
I tried using .dxf and 'exploding' the diagram but inkscape just tells me "No paths to break apart in the selection".

Yes, it is a toggle option, but I think it outputs a drawing and not the geometry, so I don't think it will solve your problem.

Once I get back to a computer I will find it, but a couple people have discussed how to do this with a dxf file. I think two different people have written step by step guides in this thread for how to do this in two different free cad softwares.

[swill]

SWill, is it still possible to export to .svg?
I tried using .dxf and 'exploding' the diagram but inkscape just tells me "No paths to break apart in the selection".

You might import the model to Tinkercad on a browser than export a 2D .svg

Arctic? lol - I've always interpreted it as "Attic"

Well, once you are available, I might print some alternative 2u balanced cutouts and review the experience, in the meantime, it would be great if someone could share an 2u cutout of a WASD V2

I was going to service my WASD V2's, I might just do that and take photos of the 2u cutouts by desoldering them just for the photos/comparisons - but likely not in a week

Once I get back and am on a computer again I will hit you up for more details and try to work with you to get to the bottom of this. I am flying back later today.

[wes1099]

some more plates

Nice looking plates, I also enjoy codenaming stuff "Arc"s

Where/How were they produced?

1.5mm clear acrylic from ponoko.com

I paid $50 ($10 materials, $40 services) for 3 plates, 2 back plates and 2 middle pieces on this round. Not a bad deal! They're close by so I just picked it up locally and saved on shipping.

How did you get the .dxf file to work right when you uploaded it to their website? I keep getting a message that my line colors are wrong and I have tried everything to fix it... EDIT: Nevermind, I figured it out. They currently have a deal where you can get $20 off the first thing you make with them if you order within 10 days of creating an account, so hopefully the stabilizer calculations get worked out so I can get a plate for cheap.

[SuperSumo]

I've been making my own plate designer in Python using OpenSCAD and SolidPython (it's Python bindings) and have noticed some differences between the output of my builder and Swill's builder. I coded my key holes to the Cherry MX PDF which has the measurements on it. I was as careful as I could be with the measurements and so I'm wondering why there are differences.

Does Swill's builder take something else that I'm missing into account? I haven't yet created a plate with my builder yet but would like to sometime in the future and don't want to mess up.

I've attached an animated gif of the differences with the different hole types. My builder is in blue and Swill's builder is in green. It seems that Swill's builder isn't completely symmetrical with some of the holes, or I'm just off myself.

Any thoughts?

[trauring]

So I was using the SVG output and noticed something odd. First, the holes are filled in with grey, and I'm not sure why. Second, I output 6 holes on a sandwich design, and two out of the six holes actually had two circles, one superimposed on the other. I noticed this when I selected all six and changed the fill to nothing, and noticed that two of the holes didn't change from grey to empty. I clicked on those two and hit delete, and grey-filled circles were left behind. I was then able to remove the fill from those two circles.

[swill]

So I was using the SVG output and noticed something odd. First, the holes are filled in with grey, and I'm not sure why. Second, I output 6 holes on a sandwich design, and two out of the six holes actually had two circles, one superimposed on the other. I noticed this when I selected all six and changed the fill to nothing, and noticed that two of the holes didn't change from grey to empty. I clicked on those two and hit delete, and grey-filled circles were left behind. I was then able to remove the fill from those two circles.

the grey background is just some randomness because of FreeCAD.  It should not affect anything, its just visual.

the superimposed circles, that could be different.  send me a screenshot so I can validate if it is an issue or not.

thx...

[swill]

I've been making my own plate designer in Python using OpenSCAD and SolidPython (it's Python bindings) and have noticed some differences between the output of my builder and Swill's builder. I coded my key holes to the Cherry MX PDF which has the measurements on it. I was as careful as I could be with the measurements and so I'm wondering why there are differences.

Does Swill's builder take something else that I'm missing into account? I haven't yet created a plate with my builder yet but would like to sometime in the future and don't want to mess up.

I've attached an animated gif of the differences with the different hole types. My builder is in blue and Swill's builder is in green. It seems that Swill's builder isn't completely symmetrical with some of the holes, or I'm just off myself.

Any thoughts?

(Attachment Link)

There are two things that my plate takes into account that you are not getting if you just follow the cherry spec (which my drawings are basically drawn from as well).

1) The bottom of the cutout on the stabilize wings is 3.3mm wide.  The reason is because the Costar stabilizer requires it.  I thought I had done the cherry only one to spec and the cherry + costar one 3.3mm wide, but maybe I did both that wide.  It would not affect the cherry only stabilizer because there are not clips there.

2) The vertical opening of the wing section of the MX switch cutout is taller on mine than yours.  The reason is because my version of that cutout also supports alps switches (which are 15.6 x 12.8mm). 

Let me know if anything is not clear...

[wes1099]

So is this thing working enough to make a plate for my infinity keyboard?

[swill]

So is this thing working enough to make a plate for my infinity keyboard?

Yes. It should be working perfectly since the latest cutouts pretty much line up perfectly with a cutout that is known to work well.

[KHAANNN]

So is this thing working enough to make a plate for my infinity keyboard?

Yes. It should be working perfectly since the latest cutouts pretty much line up perfectly with a cutout that is known to work well.

What cutout type is that? Are you sure? Did you test them yourself?

[swill]

So is this thing working enough to make a plate for my infinity keyboard?

Yes. It should be working perfectly since the latest cutouts pretty much line up perfectly with a cutout that is known to work well.

What cutout type is that? Are you sure? Did you test them yourself?

The cherry + costar is now almost identical to jd's cutout which has been proven to be good. The costar only has been adjusted as well to match the same dimensions.

You are doing 3d printing tests still with the latest cutouts?

[KHAANNN]

So is this thing working enough to make a plate for my infinity keyboard?

Yes. It should be working perfectly since the latest cutouts pretty much line up perfectly with a cutout that is known to work well.

What cutout type is that? Are you sure? Did you test them yourself?

The cherry + costar is now almost identical to jd's cutout which has been proven to be good. The costar only has been adjusted as well to match the same dimensions.

You are doing 3d printing tests still with the latest cutouts?

I haven't tested JD's cutouts, also, cherry+costar likely sacrifices costar optimality for compatibility, so referencing that cutout for a costar-only setup is a very bad idea

The issue is simple, the insert rubs onto the far side of the slider, so the logical thing to do is to move the costar cutouts to the far side, so the insert no longer rubs and gets the switch stuck

With your change, you moved the costar cutouts to the opposite side, which just made the issue worse (the previous one was usable, the latest one gets the assembly stuck)

In my opinion, you keep referencing JD's cutout without any actual testing or analysis and to make things worse you are vouching for the usability of the cutout

Cherry stabs have to be aligned with the switch, as the insert is part of the assembly, yet for the costar stab, things are very different, instead of being symmetrical, the cutout has to be closer to the far side

(far side == usb side)

[jdcarpe]

So is this thing working enough to make a plate for my infinity keyboard?

Yes. It should be working perfectly since the latest cutouts pretty much line up perfectly with a cutout that is known to work well.

What cutout type is that? Are you sure? Did you test them yourself?

The cherry + costar is now almost identical to jd's cutout which has been proven to be good. The costar only has been adjusted as well to match the same dimensions.

You are doing 3d printing tests still with the latest cutouts?

I haven't tested JD's cutouts, also, cherry+costar likely sacrifices costar optimality for compatibility, so referencing that cutout for a costar-only setup is a very bad idea

The issue is simple, the insert rubs onto the far side of the slider, so the logical thing to do is to move the costar cutouts to the far side, so the insert no longer rubs and gets the switch stuck

With your change, you moved the costar cutouts to the opposite side, which just made the issue worse (the previous one was usable, the latest one gets the assembly stuck)

In my opinion, you keep referencing JD's cutout without any actual testing or analysis and to make things worse you are vouching for the usability of the cutout

Cherry stabs have to be aligned with the switch, as the insert is part of the assembly, yet for the costar stab, things are very different, instead of being symmetrical, the cutout has to be closer to the far side

(far side == usb side)

YOU may not have tested my cutouts, but I have. They are present in a bunch of existing plates, including every JD40 plate in existence. Why would they not work in swill's application?

[KHAANNN]

YOU may not have tested my cutouts, but I have. They are present in a bunch of existing plates, including every JD40 plate in existence. Why would they not work in swill's application?

So are you vouching for the optimality of swill's costar cutouts/compatibility?

Have you read the issues/discussions about the costar stabs?

[jdcarpe]

YOU may not have tested my cutouts, but I have. They are present in a bunch of existing plates, including every JD40 plate in existence. Why would they not work in swill's application?

So are you vouching for the optimality of swill's costar cutouts/compatibility?

Have you read the issues/discussions about the costar stabs?

If they are the functionally same as mine, why wouldn't they work the same? Obviously I can't vouch for something I haven't tested myself.

I have read the discussion about the Costar issues, and I don't have the problem you experienced with Costar stabilizers in my cutouts. I've built many a JD40 with a Costar stabilizer on the spacebar, and never had one problem. Maybe it's because I only use laser cut 0.062" thick 304 stainless for my plates?

[KHAANNN]

YOU may not have tested my cutouts, but I have. They are present in a bunch of existing plates, including every JD40 plate in existence. Why would they not work in swill's application?

So are you vouching for the optimality of swill's costar cutouts/compatibility?

Have you read the issues/discussions about the costar stabs?

If they are the functionally same as mine, why wouldn't they work the same? Obviously I can't vouch for something I haven't tested myself.

I have read the discussion about the Costar issues, and I don't have the problem you experienced with Costar stabilizers in my cutouts. I've built many a JD40 with a Costar stabilizer on the spacebar, and never had one problem. Maybe it's because I only use laser cut 0.062" thick 304 stainless for my plates?

That's my point, more testing is needed for vouching and validating :)

As wes1099, I initially experienced costar stabiliser issues with the infinitykb, I don't know the source of their calculations, but they are also cherry+costar's (everyone who built their infinity reported similar issues)
The issue is similar to the one others reported with swillkb's cherry+costar cutout, the far side of the insert rubbing to the slider, only pushing/sanding the slider makes the stabiliser usable, for some that didn't work either

I think the cherry+costar cutout was on the edge of the costar stabiliser's error margin (there is a lot of wiggle room for the insert, I believe for an optimal setup, the insert should be centered, currently the insert leans to one side, rubbing it), the latest update pushed things for the worse

I believe the costar-only cutouts should be optimised further, compared to a WASD V2's cutouts, there is a visible difference of around 1mm's

On a selfish level, I could just push the costar cutouts to my liking myself and get things over with, as I genuinely believe they should be improved/fixed, but I don't want to see others get plates built only to experience similar issues

[swill]

YOU may not have tested my cutouts, but I have. They are present in a bunch of existing plates, including every JD40 plate in existence. Why would they not work in swill's application?

So are you vouching for the optimality of swill's costar cutouts/compatibility?

Have you read the issues/discussions about the costar stabs?

If they are the functionally same as mine, why wouldn't they work the same? Obviously I can't vouch for something I haven't tested myself.

I have read the discussion about the Costar issues, and I don't have the problem you experienced with Costar stabilizers in my cutouts. I've built many a JD40 with a Costar stabilizer on the spacebar, and never had one problem. Maybe it's because I only use laser cut 0.062" thick 304 stainless for my plates?

That's my point, more testing is needed for vouching and validating

As wes1099, I initially experienced costar stabiliser issues with the infinitykb, I don't know the source of their calculations, but they are also cherry+costar's (everyone who built their infinity reported similar issues)
The issue is similar to the one others reported with swillkb's cherry+costar cutout, the far side of the insert rubbing to the slider, only pushing/sanding the slider makes the stabiliser usable, for some that didn't work either

I think the cherry+costar cutout was on the edge of the costar stabiliser's error margin (there is a lot of wiggle room for the insert, I believe for an optimal setup, the insert should be centered, currently the insert leans to one side, rubbing it), the latest update pushed things for the worse

I believe the costar-only cutouts should be optimised further, compared to a WASD V2's cutouts, there is a visible difference of around 1mm's

On a selfish level, I could just push the costar cutouts to my liking myself and get things over with, as I genuinely believe they should be improved/fixed, but I don't want to see others get plates built only to experience similar issues

So some of the stuff you are saying is just not true, which is unfortunate and only making things less clear.  The adjustment I did to the costar cutout WAS IN THE CORRECT DIRECTION. 

Before, it was .75mm towards the wire side on both the top and bottom (as per the only spec available).  The costar opening was 14mm long which is the same as the switch opening.  This is what you originally had a problems with.  I did a bunch of testing here on my cherry + costar cutout and verified that the cutout was too far towards the wire side.  However, I think part of the reason for this is because of the 1.6mm plate thickness which makes the costar stabilizer not clip in perfectly.  I will give you numbers on this stuff in a second.

So instead of the cutout being 14mm long and the top and bottom both being .75mm from the top, I left the bottom the same as it was and I elongated the hole by .15mm, so the top is now only .6mm from the top of the switch and the cutout is 14.15mm long.  For comparison, JD's is 14.19mm long and is almost exactly the same placement as mine.

I know that the 1.6mm plate is causing the stabilizer to not clip in perfectly because the opening between the top of the uprights of the costar stabilizer when clipped in is 7.5mm while on the QFR, the same stabilizer has a top opening of 7.9mm.  Also, the width of the slider which goes between the two uprights is 7.3mm, so the tolerances we are working with here are in the ballpark of .1mm to .2mm.  Your suggestion to move the cutout by a whole mm would make nothing work.

So, in summary...  lengthening the cutout will make the uprights sit more correctly and let the stabilizer clip in better.  It will also give more room for the upright on the opposite side from the upright a little more space to get out of the way.

Just so you know.  The space between the uprights and the switch are NOT supposed to be lined up.  The reason is because the insert is longer on the top side than the bottom side, so that opening is actually shifted slightly towards the top of the switch (away from the wire).  You will also notice that the space between the uprights is not centered in the middle of the cutout because the wire mechanism pushes all of that towards the top of the switch.

Hope that clears things up.

I appreciate the feedback, but I need measurements with a caliper if you are testing and things are not working as you expect so I can understand the problem.

Cheers...

Edit: I am actually considering extending my cutout by another 0.04mm towards the top to make it the same as JD's exactly at 14.19mm long.  I think that could help guarantee that everything will work well with the slightly thicker 1.6mm plates.  The reason I am not right now is because the top of the top upright will exaggerate the problem because of the placement of the pivot point being right at the level of the plate.

[KHAANNN]

I don't have access to precision measurement equipment, that's why my comments are always ~1mm - dipping below 1mm would be just speculation in my case

Just checked things further with my printed plates, compared them to a WASD V2's cutout, here are some observations

1) In general, the far side of the slider insert is too close to the slider, while for the wire-side, there is a <1mm gap, so the cutout is free to move to the far-side by <1mm - even if it's outside the original specifications for the cutout
2) the bare WASD V2 cutouts and the swill produced cutouts look similar, so indeed if an issues exists, it's around the 0.1mm range, or it doesn't exist at all
3) even the slightest clipping issue is enough to make the stabiliser not work (1)

The conclusion I draw from these observations are:
i) The calculations are probably generally correct - or the error is negligible
ii) Pushing the costar cutout 0.2mm to the top/further side could make things work with 1.5mm+ plates too

On my 3d printed plate, the cutouts look good, the stabiliser latches on well, yet the rubbing still occurs, so I will just bump the cutout up in 0.1mm increments until it works well with my manufacturing method

Anyway, thanks once again for the builder, I apologise if I upset anyone through my discussions/observations

[swill]

I don't have access to precision measurement equipment, that's why my comments are always ~1mm - dipping below 1mm would be just speculation in my case

Just checked things further with my printed plates, compared them to a WASD V2's cutout, here are some observations

1) In general, the far side of the slider insert is too close to the slider, while for the wire-side, there is a <1mm gap, so the cutout is free to move to the far-side by <1mm - even if it's outside the original specifications for the cutout
2) the bare WASD V2 cutouts and the swill produced cutouts look similar, so indeed if an issues exists, it's around the 0.1mm range, or it doesn't exist at all
3) even the slightest clipping issue is enough to make the stabiliser not work (1)

The conclusion I draw from these observations are:
i) The calculations are probably generally correct - or the error is negligible
ii) Pushing the costar cutout 0.2mm to the top/further side could make things work with 1.5mm+ plates too

On my 3d printed plate, the cutouts look good, the stabiliser latches on well, yet the rubbing still occurs, so I will just bump the cutout up in 0.1mm increments until it works well with my manufacturing method

Anyway, thanks once again for the builder, I apologise if I upset anyone through my discussions/observations

If you are using the old cutout, this sounds exactly right.  This is why I added the .15mm to the top of the cutout to make it 14.15mm long instead of 14.00mm long. 

If you are using the new cutout, I have a hunch that the resulting 3d printed plates have a slightly smaller opening than laser cut.  If I remember correctly, the other people who did 3d printed plates commented that the opening measured a little smaller than the spec.  It was suggested that it could have had something to do with the plastic flowing a bit before it cured.  Its hard to know for sure without a caliper.  If the opening is too short and it can't clip all the way in, this is the behavior you would see.  This is because the top upright is going to be the one that has the majority of the error which will result in it getting pushed into the slider opening. 

If you look from the side at just the stabilizer once it is clipped in (and you compare it with one that you know to be working), is the upright on the top slightly angled into the slider area at the top?

No worries dude.  People have to put a lot of money on the line to get these plates cut, so it is important that we understand what is going on so we can address it accordingly.  No hard feelings here, we are doing our best given the fact that we are not looking at exactly the same thing and so much of this is up for interpretation. 

[LeandreN]

Hey.
I was tinkering around with your sandwhich case builder tool and was wondering a couple of things.

What is the sstandard screw hole size, and could you link me the type of screw i want to use?
Is the plates that is included with the sandwhich case enough space for handwiring?¨
¨
L

[KHAANNN]

The new one was printed more precisely after calibrating the device further, the new one uses the new calculations, the new one got stuck
I enlarged the cutouts myself with a scalpel on the older version, which relaxed things a lot, did the same with the newer version now, it similarly improved things, now the key moves without being stuck, yet on both usages, the insert touches the slider slightly, which isn't necessarily a bad thing

On both versions, the latching on is satisfactory, there is no bending (both re-touched and not)
On the bright side, re-touching plastic is pretty easy

I like the close-call result of the current result, I might test a 0.1mm moved version myself, which would work without re-touching, yet the key press experience might not be as solid as the close-call one - it gets the keycap stuck, but once re-touched, it also prevents wobble in the y direction

If we can draw one certain conclusion from all these, extreme precision is required to make costar's work with the default calculations

[swill]

The new one was printed more precisely after calibrating the device further, the new one uses the new calculations, the new one got stuck
I enlarged the cutouts myself with a scalpel on the older version, which relaxed things a lot, did the same with the newer version now, it similarly improved things, now the key moves without being stuck, yet on both usages, the insert touches the slider slightly, which isn't necessarily a bad thing

On both versions, the latching on is satisfactory, there is no bending (both re-touched and not)
On the bright side, re-touching plastic is pretty easy

I like the close-call result of the current result, I might test a 0.1mm moved version myself, which would work without re-touching, yet the key press experience might not be as solid as the close-call one - it gets the keycap stuck, but once re-touched, it also prevents wobble in the y direction

If we can draw one certain conclusion from all these, extreme precision is required to make costar's work with the default calculations

Ya, I think I will add another .05mm of cutout to the top of the cutout to basically have exactly the same thing that JD has.  I think that should get us where we need to be without things being too loose.  Make sense?  So that would be 14.2mm long and it would be from .75mm below to .55mm from top.

[KHAANNN]

It might also be a good idea to add some advanced configuration options, the placement and size of the stabiliser cutouts could be one of them
A way for anyone to configure the result for their specific usage

There could be a simple documentation on these advanced configuration parameters and a simple explanation of how they work and why they are useful etc.

A perfect 1.5mm plate might not need the additional space, but it seems many other plates do, but if someone is going to get a perfect plate manufactured the additional space would be unnecessary

What I'm ultimately saying is, if it's impossible to satisfy everyone with one result, it's a good idea to add more customisation options :)

[MOZ]

I made my sandwich with Swill's builder, 4mm semi-frost, 6mm frost acrylic and my uni's crappy laser cutter. The laser was weak so it had to go over cut lines again for 6mm, here are the results:

Show Image

4 pieces for 2 boards.
and put together:

Show Image

As you can see the acrylic edge is 'going inwards', compared to metal plates which were 'professionally cut' (if you live in NZ don't go to HSM). Probably the laser's fault though.
I used M3 10mm standoffs for those hexagons (http://www.ebay.com/itm/261283813262?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT) and the cut dimension is 5.5mm inscribed which fit fine. M3 5mm screws: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111471636269?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=410467517385&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Also thank you Swill for the stabiliser fix!
Edit: Current progress: http://puu.sh/hVchB.jpg 

The reason that the acrylic isn't cut right is due to the two pass cutting, if your laser isn't powerful enough to cut in single pass or even the power and speed is not optimised in the case of a single pass for thicker sheets (>3mm), you'll get a taper and this is what happened in your case. One side of the acrylic is slightly wider than the other.

Yours is the first non-Korean custom case I've seen that used countersunk screws.  That's the design element that's been torturing me for my case design.  I thought I would have to get screws with a 100 or 110 degree chamfer to ensure that the screw was holding onto enough of the switch plate but I can't find screws like that anywhere.  I think there's a secret cabal that keeps those screws off the open market.  Did you chamfer the screw holes on the switch plate yourself or did you have the cutter do it?

Actually, I was the one that devised the method to use hex stand-offs in middle layers and countersunk screws on top and bottom layers. It was first used on the GHPad about a year or two back. The Koreans then followed.

[QuiGonJinn]

So, I had my first case and plate cut in acrylic today. I am using 1.6mm acrylic for the mounting plate and 3mm acrylic for the support and other layers. The process of cutting has left some burning marks on most of the layers, making the surface a little bit rough, but It mostly goes by annoticed, especially on the black sheets. My problem at the moment, is that costar stabilizers and the switches don't clip in place, my guess is because the plate is too thick, and I'm thinking of using sandpaper to get it to 1.5mm if possible. Here go the pictures. Excuse me for the bad quality and lighting:

[eosph]

I'm having trouble getting the following to build properly:

Code: [Select]

[{x:0.5,w:1.5,w2:1},"tab\n\n\n\n\n\n`","q",{x:-1},"",{x:-1},"q",{x:-1},"q\nz\n\n\n1/!\n\na","w\nx\n\n\n2/\"\n\ns","e\nc\n\n\n3/£\n\nd","r\nv\n\n\n4/$\n\nf","t\nb\n\n\n5/%\n\ng",{x:1},"u\nm\n\n\n7/&\n\nj","i\n,\n\n\n8/*\n\nk","o\n.\n\n\n9/(\n\nl","p\n/\n\n\n0/)\n\n;","{\n\n\n\n-/_\n\n'","}\n\n\n\n=/+\n\n#"],
[{x:0.5,w:1.25},"shift",{w:1.25},"ctrl","","raise","raise",{a:5,w:2.75},"space",{a:4},"lower","lower",{w:1.25},"enter",{w:2},"backspace"],
[{rx:0.75,ry:0.25,y:-0.25,x:6.25},"y\nn\n\n\n6/^\n\nh"]

It's a two row plate but the middle key (directly above "space") keeps appearing at the bottom. Not quite sure what I'm doing wrong here.

[Charger]

I'm having trouble getting the following to build properly:

Code: [Select]

[{x:0.5,w:1.5,w2:1},"tab\n\n\n\n\n\n`","q",{x:-1},"",{x:-1},"q",{x:-1},"q\nz\n\n\n1/!\n\na","w\nx\n\n\n2/\"\n\ns","e\nc\n\n\n3/£\n\nd","r\nv\n\n\n4/$\n\nf","t\nb\n\n\n5/%\n\ng",{x:1},"u\nm\n\n\n7/&\n\nj","i\n,\n\n\n8/*\n\nk","o\n.\n\n\n9/(\n\nl","p\n/\n\n\n0/)\n\n;","{\n\n\n\n-/_\n\n'","}\n\n\n\n=/+\n\n#"],
[{x:0.5,w:1.25},"shift",{w:1.25},"ctrl","","raise","raise",{a:5,w:2.75},"space",{a:4},"lower","lower",{w:1.25},"enter",{w:2},"backspace"],
[{rx:0.75,ry:0.25,y:-0.25,x:6.25},"y\nn\n\n\n6/^\n\nh"]

It's a two row plate but the middle key (directly above "space") keeps appearing at the bottom. Not quite sure what I'm doing wrong here.

Show Image

well it should only be 2 lines of code and you had like 3 keys under p

here is the thing cleaned up a bit and working

Code: [Select]

[{w:1.5,w2:1},"","","","","","","","","","","","",""],
[{w:1.25},"",{w:1.25},"","","","",{a:5,w:2.75},"",{a:4},"","",{w:1.25},"",{w:2},""]


[Charger]

I'm going to be putting in an order soon at bigbluesaw and I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on how to do that. Should I just go through his online quote tool or what. Also I assume that i should order stainless steel t-304 0.06 inch.


Oh while I'm at it is anyone willing to idiot check my files before I try and order? I would hate to spend the money just to find out something was obviously wrong with my file (files made with swills tool combines and slightly modded)

[eosph]

I'm having trouble getting the following to build properly:

Code: [Select]

[{x:0.5,w:1.5,w2:1},"tab\n\n\n\n\n\n`","q",{x:-1},"",{x:-1},"q",{x:-1},"q\nz\n\n\n1/!\n\na","w\nx\n\n\n2/\"\n\ns","e\nc\n\n\n3/£\n\nd","r\nv\n\n\n4/$\n\nf","t\nb\n\n\n5/%\n\ng",{x:1},"u\nm\n\n\n7/&\n\nj","i\n,\n\n\n8/*\n\nk","o\n.\n\n\n9/(\n\nl","p\n/\n\n\n0/)\n\n;","{\n\n\n\n-/_\n\n'","}\n\n\n\n=/+\n\n#"],
[{x:0.5,w:1.25},"shift",{w:1.25},"ctrl","","raise","raise",{a:5,w:2.75},"space",{a:4},"lower","lower",{w:1.25},"enter",{w:2},"backspace"],
[{rx:0.75,ry:0.25,y:-0.25,x:6.25},"y\nn\n\n\n6/^\n\nh"]

It's a two row plate but the middle key (directly above "space") keeps appearing at the bottom. Not quite sure what I'm doing wrong here.

Show Image

well it should only be 2 lines of code and you had like 3 keys under p

here is the thing cleaned up a bit and working

Code: [Select]

[{w:1.5,w2:1},"","","","","","","","","","","","",""],
[{w:1.25},"",{w:1.25},"","","","",{a:5,w:2.75},"",{a:4},"","",{w:1.25},"",{w:2},""]


Thanks Charger that's worked brilliantly.

[swill]

I'm going to be putting in an order soon at bigbluesaw and I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on how to do that. Should I just go through his online quote tool or what. Also I assume that i should order stainless steel t-304 0.06 inch.


Oh while I'm at it is anyone willing to idiot check my files before I try and order? I would hate to spend the money just to find out something was obviously wrong with my file (files made with swills tool combines and slightly modded)

Sorry have not had a chance to look at this yet. I am in the hospital right now. In the process of passing 7 kidney stones.

[azhdar]

I'm going to be putting in an order soon at bigbluesaw and I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on how to do that. Should I just go through his online quote tool or what. Also I assume that i should order stainless steel t-304 0.06 inch.


Oh while I'm at it is anyone willing to idiot check my files before I try and order? I would hate to spend the money just to find out something was obviously wrong with my file (files made with swills tool combines and slightly modded)

Sorry have not had a chance to look at this yet. I am in the hospital right now. In the process of passing 7 kidney stones.

Good luck with that swill, hope it will be fine for you.

[Charger]

I'm going to be putting in an order soon at bigbluesaw and I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on how to do that. Should I just go through his online quote tool or what. Also I assume that i should order stainless steel t-304 0.06 inch.


Oh while I'm at it is anyone willing to idiot check my files before I try and order? I would hate to spend the money just to find out something was obviously wrong with my file (files made with swills tool combines and slightly modded)

Sorry have not had a chance to look at this yet. I am in the hospital right now. In the process of passing 7 kidney stones.

Well that sucks.

Anyways no rush I still have not received any of the parts I have ordered anyways and the keycaps I ordered will not even ship until the start of next month.