[IC] krytox greases and oils

[mkawa]

Folks,

I've developed a love affair with the fluoropolymer bound PTFE filled substances that are dupont's krytox line. i'd like to do the same bulk purchasing everyone else has done and vend them in appropriately sized containers for lubing small machine parts and switches. however, i don't want to get stuck with two pounds and 500$ of liquid polymer. please register your interest for the greatest (low temperature low viscosity small machine) lubricant known to man here, and i'll pick up the bits and packaging.

-KAWA

[Tarzan]

Interested.

Are you going to do a variety of weights?  I'm interested in both GPL 105 and GPL 205.

[SpAmRaY]

Interested in whatever you decided to go with.

[nubbinator]

I've got a decent amount at home, but I could probably do with more.  It is awesome stuff.  Once you try it, nothing feels as good.

[mkawa]

i'm not sure yet. the problem is that you have to buy in bulk for it to make any sense, and it's 200$/lb for a single compound, so i can really only pick up the compounds that there is significant demand for. that said, 205 grease can be thinned with 105 oil (although i'm not sure what other properties the x05 series has -- i know some of them are specifically high visco for vacuum, high temp, etc., and won't give the feeling a lot of people want in their switches)...

[HoffmanMyster]

How much do you estimate an amount to fill "appropriately sized containers for lubing small machine parts and switches" would cost?  $3, $5, $10, $20, $50?  Not trying to be rude, I honestly don't know.

I'm interested for sure, depending on price.

[Xenderwind]

I just bought some cheap dupont teflon stuff because there were no lube kits for sale.  However depending on the price I may be interested in this stuff.

[nubbinator]

I just bought some cheap dupont teflon stuff because there were no lube kits for sale.  However depending on the price I may be interested in this stuff.

If you're talking about this stuff, the Krytox is so much better and definitely worth it.

[Xenderwind]

I just bought some cheap dupont teflon stuff because there were no lube kits for sale.  However depending on the price I may be interested in this stuff.

If you're talking about this stuff, the Krytox is so much better and definitely worth it.

Yeah that's the stuff I got.  I would have bought the lube kit things but the guy was sold out and I figure it's better than nothing for the time being. 

[korrelate]

I have a very low-volume interest in this. I'd only need enough for say 350 switches (2 boards plus a tentative stem swap) but of course I'd buy whatever min qty you were selling as long as it wasn't outlandishly priced.

[mkawa]

i may not be able to provide super cute stickers, but i'll do my best to achieve parity with jocelyne and jdcarpe's previous GBs. there will be some margin added, but all of it will go into the geekhack fund, as per the vtos.

awesome! sounds like this is viable! go krytox!

and seriously, nubbinator is right. there is nothing as slippery and inert as krytox. it is the lube of gods.

[Xenderwind]

would these come with those little needle tops?  or is it just a bottle and we have to use a brush

[mkawa]

multiple gauges of needles standard sized bottles, probably not from the same vendor as limmy though. limmy showed me where to get 27ga needles (tiny as crap), but i can source a pretty full range with slightly lower tolerances from another company. the ones he sourced are for precision (i need to put EXACTLY X AMOUNT OF REACTANT INTO THIS OR THE WORLD EXPLODES). i can source some hobbyist crap for a bit cheaper, and if i need more sources i ME friends i can ask (hey where do you get X?) etc

[bazemk1979]

interested, LOL haven't used the one I have and looking for a 2nd round muahahaha

[Dubsgalore]

interested def

[mkawa]

i may not be able to provide super cute stickers, but i'll do my best to achieve parity with jocelyne and jdcarpe's previous GBs. there will be some margin added, but all of it will go into the geekhack fund, as per the vtos.

awesome! sounds like this is viable! go krytox!

and seriously, nubbinator is right. there is nothing as slippery and inert as krytox. it is the lube of gods.

BOST!!!!! THIS IS YOUR CHANCE!! (context: bost has been trying to practice dirty dozens against me AND ONLY ME)

[mkawa]

Interested.

Are you going to do a variety of weights?  I'm interested in both GPL 105 and GPL 205.

out of curiosity, why 105? after looking at the datasheets, i'm thinking 101 or 102 with 203 or 204 max. i don't see a need for anything higher with our applications. the idea is to get a grease that has a nice viscosity in our active temperature ranges (20-60C) that can be "watered down" to taste with a thin oil. even in our machining applications, 205 is basically overkill, unless you bring it down to 203 grade with 101 or 102.

the only other thing i can think of right now is that a few of us might want 106 or even XHT-NM formulations for extrusion printing hot ends (hot stuff comin' through!). however, this is generally a bit iffy, as above 280C it's not safe for bronze, and pretty much all extrusion nozzles are bronze. a superlube type formulation might work better for that application, and it will be an order of magnitude cheaper.

[JPG]

Would you get something "all mixed" or will we need to mix the appropriate amount ourselves? If I remember right, it's better to use oil on the spring and a mix of grease and oil on the stem. Would we need/get both?

I would be happy if someone could confirm that or correct me!

[WhiteFireDragon]

Man you guys are so lucky to have these GB offered multiple times. When I ventured into high end lube, I did not get the opportunity to get these for that cheap. It was around $75 shipped for tiny amounts of krytox oil and grease. High cost of individual orders was the biggest factor that people didn't use these, so I would say take advantage of this. You spend $100+ on keyboards, why not throw in a few more bucks to greatly enhance that typing experience?

Btw, The mixture I used was GPL 205 and 103 (not 105). I think the 105 might be too viscous. I was torn between 102 and 103, decided to go with 103.

[JPG]

Well count me in!

[mkawa]

105 is way too viscous. check out the datasheets wfd. basically the 5 series has a target temp of about 200C. 3 is 100C, 0 is 40-50C, 1 is about 80C, etc.

what i'm thinking is kind of a viscous grease so that people can isolate exactly where they want their lube to sit, and then a nice room temp lube like 101 or maybe even 100 to decrease friction at that particular point. if you look at the application notes that's kind of how they want you to use it anyway. the grease is a PFPE which is really meant to isolate and place PTFE powder and the mostly fluorine lube.

[mkawa]

the other nice thing about this is that 203-ish is kind of the optimal bearing lube for the kind of small high speed motors and shafts that we deal with. i guess if you type really really really fast it could end up at a pretty low viscosity in switches too

[Defying]

Interested.

[TimIsABat]

Interested. So I can complete my Poker X

[Neal]

Yeah, still have a bit left from my latest buy.
Could probably do with more though, interested.

[MOZ]

Limmy's kit was near perfect. Something like that would be awesome. 205 and 103.

[bigx333]

I'm in 

[SeriouSSpotS]

Very interested

[pmh1410]

I must wait 1 month to get it from US

[mkawa]

that, unfortunately, i can't change, unless you want to shell out for EMS

[Mysteric]

Interested depending on price.

[mkawa]

ok, so for the record, limmy's last buy was 101 oil with 203 grease. nubbinator and wfd both like 205 grease, and i'm starting to lean toward a slightly heavier grease. if you look at the application notes and composition documentation on dupont's site, the point of the PFPE greases is to stay stable whilst other things, the PTFE powder and a suspended oil do the actual lubrication. so, the oil actually does things like reduce coefficient of friction and the ptfe prevents wear and keeps separation between the parts.

target temperatures and viscosities are in this document: http://www2.dupont.com/Lubricants/en_US/assets/downloads/DuPont_Krytox_Typical_Properties_H-58510-7.pdf

the chemical structure of krytox products is in this document: http://www2.dupont.com/Lubricants/en_US/assets/downloads/Krytox_Overview_LowRes_H-58505-5.pdf

hence, i'm thinking 205 for the grease, and then anything between 101 and 103 for the oil. between 101 and 103 there are actually really only very subtle differences in viscosity; the differences are a tad larger 30-ish C, where switch crosspoints are going to sit, but the biggest difference between then is where they really thin out. it they were under quite a bit more pressure, say in high speed applications, it would be quite important to differentiate between the grades, but i can't see a huge reason to prefer one of those three oil grades over another for our applications.

anyway, unless there's additional input (i know limmy's occupied right now, but wfd and others who have used krytox extensively, please chime in here!), i'm thinking 205 and 103 or 102. this gives a nice spectrum of viscosities with different mix ratios. i am also going to spec out a good reliable source of good but not medically precise needle and brush applicators, bottles, etc while we we decide on the oil and grease grades.

i suspect this will be the first product available from through geekhackers, which is the firm that i've set up to provide for the community. yes, i totally just ninja'd that announcement in. surprise!

anyway, chime in, people!

[SpAmRaY]

I'd say that's a good compromise and geekhackers sounds like a bunch of keyboard nuts...... oh..... wait

[Xenderwind]

Whatever you decide i trust you.  My lube is in your hands, mkawa

[JPG]

I am sure I will be happy with your choice Gucchi (or sry your still mKawa )

[Jrwestcoast]

Interested

[Mysteric]

ok, so for the record, limmy's last buy was 101 oil with 203 grease. nubbinator and wfd both like 205 grease, and i'm starting to lean toward a slightly heavier grease. if you look at the application notes and composition documentation on dupont's site, the point of the PFPE greases is to stay stable whilst other things, the PTFE powder and a suspended oil do the actual lubrication. so, the oil actually does things like reduce coefficient of friction and the ptfe prevents wear and keeps separation between the parts.

target temperatures and viscosities are in this document: http://www2.dupont.com/Lubricants/en_US/assets/downloads/DuPont_Krytox_Typical_Properties_H-58510-7.pdf

the chemical structure of krytox products is in this document: http://www2.dupont.com/Lubricants/en_US/assets/downloads/Krytox_Overview_LowRes_H-58505-5.pdf

hence, i'm thinking 205 for the grease, and then anything between 101 and 103 for the oil. between 101 and 103 there are actually really only very subtle differences in viscosity; the differences are a tad larger 30-ish C, where switch crosspoints are going to sit, but the biggest difference between then is where they really thin out. it they were under quite a bit more pressure, say in high speed applications, it would be quite important to differentiate between the grades, but i can't see a huge reason to prefer one of those three oil grades over another for our applications.

anyway, unless there's additional input (i know limmy's occupied right now, but wfd and others who have used krytox extensively, please chime in here!), i'm thinking 205 and 103 or 102. this gives a nice spectrum of viscosities with different mix ratios. i am also going to spec out a good reliable source of good but not medically precise needle and brush applicators, bottles, etc while we we decide on the oil and grease grades.

i suspect this will be the first product available from through geekhackers, which is the firm that i've set up to provide for the community. yes, i totally just ninja'd that announcement in. surprise!

anyway, chime in, people!

Have you any idea how much it would cost for enough to lube the switches with the Costar stabs on my board a few times?

[infiniti]

that, unfortunately, i can't change, unless you want to shell out for EMS

Will this ship from the US?  I'd be game to use EMS or DHL if I could consolidate shipping with some orders from techkeys and and maybe a clear set from SP.

[Topre]

Hey Mwaka. Do you need FDA approved syringes?

And how much lubrication are you planning on putting in each kit? I might be able to get pre-packaged smaller quantities of lubricant for just a bit more.

[domoaligato]

interested.

[SelektaM]

Definitely interested!

[mkawa]

Hey Mwaka. Do you need FDA approved syringes?

And how much lubrication are you planning on putting in each kit? I might be able to get pre-packaged smaller quantities of lubricant for just a bit more.

no i'm going to get the cheapest crap that us plastics has. the less approvals the better. unless you can get syringes for spectacularly cheap, (cheaper than, say, getting them directly from china, which i may also do), probably not feasible.

also, PM me with the prepack prices you can get and i'll compare it to the bulk pricing i'm seeing.

[Topre]

Hey Mwaka. Do you need FDA approved syringes?

And how much lubrication are you planning on putting in each kit? I might be able to get pre-packaged smaller quantities of lubricant for just a bit more.

no i'm going to get the cheapest crap that us plastics has. the less approvals the better. unless you can get syringes for spectacularly cheap, (cheaper than, say, getting them directly from china, which i may also do), probably not feasible.

also, PM me with the prepack prices you can get and i'll compare it to the bulk pricing i'm seeing.

Syringes are cheap as ****, they are suppose to be disposable after all. Overall, syringes should be cheaper than squeeze bottles. Syringes should be about a penny each if you buy 100.

I'm not sure about the pricing yet. I have sent in a request for prices regarding bulk purchases.

[mkawa]

actually you know i just responded to your PM and i'm rethinking. syringes might be a pretty reasonable way to do this. you would just have to specify quantity and syringe and needle at order time. squeeze bottles are not that much more expensive than syringes and have more utility imo, but hmm..

one think that i don't like about syringes is that if you're mixing to a specific viscosity, syringes can be a pain for a grease like 205 at room temp. basically if you get an air bubble in there, you're going to be waiting a long time for that bubble to move up to the needle

[Topre]

Air bubbles aren't that big of a deal unless if you need something that is really precise. Not sure exactly how you need everything to work but if there is an air bubble then you can just push on the syringe a bit more. Basically you can squeeze as much as you want, similar to thermal paste.

[mkawa]

this is totally embarassing, but i'm a serial thermal paste overapplier. i totally can't modulate pressure on syringes. this is very likely why i'm responding like this

it is a good damn thing that i'm not in the medical field. holy crap. "ok let me see here i need to administer 25ccs of ... ****! ****! ****!"

[mkawa]

OH DUDE. what about those automated pipette things? those are boss

[Topre]

Those things are pretty cool, but they do cost more than syringes. I was just planning on prefilling the syringes with grease/oil before shipping them out and have people just mix it themselves.

[Sifo]

sure, can never get enough lube.

[HoffmanMyster]

OH DUDE. what about those automated pipette things? those are boss

I think those might be a bit more accurate than we demand for our application.