[GB] GMK Solarized Dark - COMPLETE

[forevermadrigal]

Interesting lighting you are choosing there.

Do you have examples that are different? If I'm wrong I'd love to be corrected. I just googled photos. I don't own plum and my hydro hasn't shown up yet.

Your response makes it out like you think I'm trying to win an argument. Just to be clear... I am not.

I could care less which one of us is correct. I just have seen nothing that would lead me to trust the GMK renders. If I'm lacking information, I'd love to know. Rather than just saying it's wrong, I'd love to know what specifically you think is wrong. Which render. What is wrong with the render? Etc.

I'm not trying to invalidate your opinion, just understand where it comes from.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

All I said was interesting lighting and renders are renders. It's just something I have noticed. I'm not dissing thesis cause I love his renders and his upcoming boards, but his renders aren't always accurate. I don't have pictures as I don't need them cause I own the sets.

[kmba]

You're nuts if you think gmk renders are more accurate than thesiscampers. Nuts I tell ya! But yes, sets will not look exactly like the renders because many sets today is custom colors (hydro, plum, etc) which aren't going to be reproduced with 100% accuracy.

[Kavik]

You're nuts if you think gmk renders are more accurate than thesiscampers. Nuts I tell ya! But yes, sets will not look exactly like the renders because many sets today is custom colors (hydro, plum, etc) which aren't going to be reproduced with 100% accuracy.

  It's just especially confusing in this instance because, if it ends up looking like the GMK render, I'm not interested at all, but, if it looks like ThesisCamper's renders, then it's awesome and I want it. I guess I'll think about it some more.

[TalkingTree]

if it ends up looking like the GMK render, I'm not interested at all, but, if it looks like ThesisCamper's renders, then it's awesome and I want it.

Hopefully GMK Skeletor renders should clear your mind.

GMK render


thesiscamper's render


Actual product

[romevi]

if it ends up looking like the GMK render, I'm not interested at all, but, if it looks like ThesisCamper's renders, then it's awesome and I want it.

Hopefully GMK Skeletor renders should clear your mind.

GMK render

Show Image

thesiscamper's render

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Actual product

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Huh. GMK renders are getting better. The original render is a lot closer to the actual product than thesis'.

[Arallu]

Putting an order in for this one, for the SINGLE simple fact that it has barred F/J keys.

[kmba]

if it ends up looking like the GMK render, I'm not interested at all, but, if it looks like ThesisCamper's renders, then it's awesome and I want it.

Hopefully GMK Skeletor renders should clear your mind.

GMK render

Show Image

thesiscamper's render

Show Image

Actual product

Show Image

Huh. GMK renders are getting better. The original render is a lot closer to the actual product than thesis'.

Disagree. The lighting in that actual picture is horrible and does not allow for accurate representation. The white balance is way off. Sekeletor uses standard yu2 and DY which more closely resemble the non gmk render. That render is a little "bright" but still more accurate.

[amnesia0287]

if it ends up looking like the GMK render, I'm not interested at all, but, if it looks like ThesisCamper's renders, then it's awesome and I want it.

Hopefully GMK Skeletor renders should clear your mind.

GMK render

Show Image

thesiscamper's render

Show Image

Actual product

Show Image

Huh. GMK renders are getting better. The original render is a lot closer to the actual product than thesis'.

Disagree. The lighting in that actual picture is horrible and does not allow for accurate representation. The white balance is way off. Sekeletor uses standard yu2 and DY which more closely resemble the non gmk render. That render is a little "bright" but still more accurate.

This is a quick photo of my skeletor from my iPad. No correction. Using flash in a dark room. Thesiscamper render is spot on. At least in real life. (I can't see them side by side yet)



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[amnesia0287]

Same keyboard. Under white light (Philips hue) again untouched just no flash this time

Thesis:



Moral of the story is light color temp is super important to color.

[Puddsy]

It should be common knowledge at this point that renders will not match up perfectly with the final product.

Generally they're pretty close, but I always try to reserve judgement until I have product in hand.

[jchan94]

Last example. But I hope we can steer away from the render accuracy.

Renders are what we want the set to look like. Not all renders will be reflective of the end set. Thesiscamper, the render genius, has made a huge effort in making sure his renders are really accurate and they're the closest thing we'll get to the real deal imo.

Here's one more example

GMK Render



Thesiscamper Render



Actual Keycaps

[kmba]

And I fully believe the designer are anal enough that they will ensure gmk matches the desired color accurately. They will get samples, and they can reject samples.

Anyway, numbers looking great for not even being half way through the buy period.

[Auk]

I hope we can steer away from the render accuracy...

Agreed, maybe I can ask a couple of questions and request an update:

• Are any of the sets looking like meeting a price break when the proxy numbers are added?
• I'm curious about the HJKL keys with cursor legends, are those specifically for 40% boards, or are they for some other layouts?
• I've just noticed the standard modifier color cursor keys are all row 4, yet the accent set appears to have the up arrow on row 3? is that just an error on the layout drawing or is that actually how it will be produced?

[jchan94]

I hope we can steer away from the render accuracy...

Agreed, maybe I can ask a couple of questions and request an update:

• Are any of the sets looking like meeting a price break when the proxy numbers are added?
• I'm curious about the HJKL keys with cursor legends, are those specifically for 40% boards, or are they for some other layouts?
• I've just noticed the standard modifier color cursor keys are all row 4, yet the accent set appears to have the up arrow on row 3? is that just an error on the layout drawing or is that actually how it will be produced?

1. Mods should be close, and spacebars I think

2. Those are known as vim caps.

[Draic]

split spacebar is not really interesting for most keyboards other than 40% which are not supported. Strange decision

[Auk]

what about all the 60%-65% that allow flexible bottom row layouts?

[OneNightFriend]

This is my first keyset group buy and I am really looking forward to it! Great job on this set so far guys!

[euphxenos]

Hi JC, rain1blood, and thesiscamper,

Is it possible to include colored 1U Alt and 1U Crtl? Thank you.

Modify message

I talked to jchan and he said it's possible, will update everyone when we clear all these additional keys up.

I don't think I saw a follow-up to this -- did the extra key requests get resolved or is that still pending?  I had requested a R3 PgUp and R4 PgDn for 65% near the end of the IC thread.

[Arallu]

Hi JC, rain1blood, and thesiscamper,

Is it possible to include colored 1U Alt and 1U Crtl? Thank you.

Modify message

I talked to jchan and he said it's possible, will update everyone when we clear all these additional keys up.

I don't think I saw a follow-up to this -- did the extra key requests get resolved or is that still pending?  I had requested a R3 PgUp and R4 PgDn for 65% near the end of the IC thread.

Maybe the layout is incorrect, but it looks like the only 65% right side column they're supporting for 65% is DEL/HOME, PGUP, PGDN, END since the only R3 key is PGDN and the only R4 key is END.
Don't know what the other R1 PGDN(a 96% keyboard), R1 END (an 1800 keyboard?), and duplicate R1 HOME keys are for.

[kmba]

Home, pgup, pgdn, end isn't unheard of for 65% support.  Personally prefer pgup, pgdown, home, end, but honestly it's of little importance. 

[amnesia0287]

Hi JC, rain1blood, and thesiscamper,

Is it possible to include colored 1U Alt and 1U Crtl? Thank you.

Modify message

I talked to jchan and he said it's possible, will update everyone when we clear all these additional keys up.

I don't think I saw a follow-up to this -- did the extra key requests get resolved or is that still pending?  I had requested a R3 PgUp and R4 PgDn for 65% near the end of the IC thread.

Maybe the layout is incorrect, but it looks like the only 65% right side column they're supporting for 65% is DEL/HOME, PGUP, PGDN, END since the only R3 key is PGDN and the only R4 key is END.
Don't know what the other R1 PGDN(a 96% keyboard), R1 END (an 1800 keyboard?), and duplicate R1 HOME keys are for.

I'd assume they are for TKL if you want both rows to be R1 (similar to how people will do all arrows R4)

I do think it needs an R3 Home and an R4 green up arrow though. R3/R4 Page Up/Page down would be nice, but less important. (I DO agree with euphxenos that they SHOULD be added, but they wouldn't stop me. I'm not sure I could deal with home/pgup/pgdwn/end. Either home/end/pgup/pgdwn or pgup/pgdwn/home/end are fine though. I would prefer both options, but as long as ONE of them is available it works for me.

But yeah, no R3 home just seems like a mistake when there are 3 rows to do pgUp/pgDwn with.

My guess is the duplicate R1 Home is supposed to be R3. Otherwise I think you are right, it makes no sense.

[thesiscamper]

It's not easy to add keys after the pricing has been released and the GB has started. That's why there was an IC. We try to support the most popular layouts, but can't support each and every personal preference people have on how they arrange their keys.

[amnesia0287]

It's not easy to add keys after the pricing has been released and the GB has started. That's why there was an IC. We try to support the most popular layouts, but can't support each and every personal preference people have on how they arrange their keys.

So having 2 R1 Home and no R3 Home is intentional? Does changing the row actually effect pricing? I don't see why that key WOULDN'T be converted to R3 unless there is some keyboard with double home keys that I'm not aware of.

[thesiscamper]

It's not easy to add keys after the pricing has been released and the GB has started. That's why there was an IC. We try to support the most popular layouts, but can't support each and every personal preference people have on how they arrange their keys.

So having 2 R1 Home and no R3 Home is intentional? Does changing the row actually effect pricing? I don't see why that key WOULDN'T be converted to R3 unless there is some keyboard with double home keys that I'm not aware of.

The duplicate is not intentional, but the R3 home and any other additional keys will have to be discussed with jchan, since we can't just raise the prices.

[Auk]

I think this got overlooked when I queried it earlier, so could one of the designers clarify? Is the row 3 teal arrow key intentional and actually row 3, or will it be a row 4 when manufactured? Thanks!

[thesiscamper]

Regarding the duplicate R1 Home and the R3 Up arrow, I was told these issues have been fixed (KLE Render). We haven't requested new renders from GMK yet since they take too long and we're still discussing which keys we can add.

[Auk]

Regarding the duplicate R1 Home and the R3 Up arrow...

Thanks for the update. I really wasn't sure if I was unaware of a layout the arrow was part of, so I am grateful for the clarification 

[thesiscamper]

Regarding the duplicate R1 Home and the R3 Up arrow...

Thanks for the update. I really wasn't sure if I was unaware of a layout the arrow was part of, so I am grateful for the clarification 

No problem 

As for the accuracy of the renders, I missed the earlier discussions. All the images you see, be it renders or photos are affected by lighting. I try to make it as close as possible to what the designer wants, and only send the final renders when the designer approves.

So the workflow is: designer's idea > I try to make it as close as possible to what he/she wants > designer approves > set is made.

[Auk]

As for the accuracy of the renders, I missed the earlier discussion...

That probably got a little out of hand, but I do agree with one of the early observations - your render appears darker, more gray and less green than the color specification would indicate, the modifiers actually look dark grey, almost charcoal on my screen (which is a TV, 4:2:2 color depth only and not calibrated i.e. pretty bad for comparison like this.)

I did a screen grab of the various images next to each other. Only because I wanted to try it out, the bottom middle with random characters is Solarized Dark in gedit:



I'm hoping the manufactured article tends toward the greener and lighter overall, but I can't obsess about the variations between the different renders and the physical for the reasons already pointed out: GMK color will not match exactly, lighting, color temperature and physical texture will have a very significant effect on the perception. However, while we are looking at the renders, is there a color space issue that might be amplifying the difference on some screens?


EDIT: and as I perceive them, GMK renders tend to look a bit pale and washed out.

[Arallu]

I'm hoping the manufactured article tends toward the greener and lighter overall ...

+1

[thesiscamper]

The three of us all agreed to make it as close to my latest renders as possible.

[xantiema]

The three of us all agreed to make it as close to my latest renders as possible.

Which renders are the latest ones?

[Petch]

Since I can't get a response from jchan, why isn't there a 1.25u fn key? This is pretty standard

[Draic]

Since I can't get a response from jchan, why isn't there a 1.25u fn key? This is pretty standard

because the set was rushed

[kmba]

Actually, designers frequently opt for a menu key over a 1.25 fn key with Gmk sets. Honeywell, muted, this set, pnumbra, Miami, Miami nights, sky dolch, cyan, mint chocolate, ocean dolch just to name a few recent sets.....

[Gatix]

Since I can't get a response from jchan, why isn't there a 1.25u fn key? This is pretty standard

There will be, if you notice there's a duplicate 1u fn key, it should be 1.25u. We'll be releasing an official final update in a day or two.

[Petch]

Actually, designers frequently opt for a menu key over a 1.25 fn key with Gmk sets. Honeywell, muted, this set, pnumbra, Miami, Miami nights, sky dolch, cyan, mint chocolate, ocean dolch just to name a few recent sets.....

Honeywell had code buttons in addition to windows, so I just used a 1.25u 'code' button as fn. This set just has shebang (no code or windows)

I see little point in having R3 control without good fn options

[Auk]

The three of us all agreed to make it as close to my latest renders as possible.

I must admit this makes me a little uneasy, given the colors are specified precisely by the values stated. I anticipated the end result being somewhere between the renders with just a little deviation from the color values (because GMK aren't likely to 100% matched.) A lot of people love the render, so it won't be the end of the world to sell the set unused, anyone who is disappointed should easily find a buyer.

That the designers prefer the slightly darker/grayer over the lighter/greener is fine in itself. What I wish is that your intentions were clearer, especially on the product pages - it's the ambiguity that's the problem here, not the final choice you made.

[thesiscamper]

The three of us all agreed to make it as close to my latest renders as possible.

I must admit this makes me a little uneasy, given the colors are specified precisely by the values stated. I anticipated the end result being somewhere between the renders with just a little deviation from the color values (because GMK aren't likely to 100% matched.) A lot of people love the render, so it won't be the end of the world to sell the set unused, anyone who is disappointed should easily find a buyer.

That the designers prefer the slightly darker/grayer over the lighter/greener is fine in itself. What I wish is that your intentions were clearer, especially on the product pages - it's the ambiguity that's the problem here, not the final choice you made.

I understand your concern, and here's why we decided to change it: the solarized theme looked good on screens, but we felt the contrast between the mods and the alphas was lacking in caps. If you can find the earliest renders, there's almost no point in using different colors when they're almost indistinguishable from each other. For the most recent renders, I tried to introduce more contrast into the set, and the three of us liked it and it got good feedback, so we went with it. As for the color codes, it was a mistake on our part that we weren't clear enough, I just assumed everyone was in sync but we weren't.

For the mistake in keys, it's mostly misunderstanding again. I apologize on behalf of my friends, but we're trying to fix it but decided not ask for an updated GMK renders until we're sure we have the keys locked. The KLE is the most updated one.

[Draic]

The three of us all agreed to make it as close to my latest renders as possible.

I must admit this makes me a little uneasy, given the colors are specified precisely by the values stated. I anticipated the end result being somewhere between the renders with just a little deviation from the color values (because GMK aren't likely to 100% matched.) A lot of people love the render, so it won't be the end of the world to sell the set unused, anyone who is disappointed should easily find a buyer.

That the designers prefer the slightly darker/grayer over the lighter/greener is fine in itself. What I wish is that your intentions were clearer, especially on the product pages - it's the ambiguity that's the problem here, not the final choice you made.

I understand your concern, and here's why we decided to change it: the solarized theme looked good on screens, but we felt the contrast between the mods and the alphas was lacking in caps. If you can find the earliest renders, there's almost no point in using different colors when they're almost indistinguishable from each other. For the most recent renders, I tried to introduce more contrast into the set, and the three of us liked it and it got good feedback, so we went with it. As for the color codes, it was a mistake on our part that we weren't clear enough, I just assumed everyone was in sync but we weren't.

For the mistake in keys, it's mostly misunderstanding again. I apologize on behalf of my friends, but we're trying to fix it but decided not ask for an updated GMK renders until we're sure we have the keys locked. The KLE is the most updated one.

But solarized dark is meant to be a low contrast theme, so I can't say I like the decision to increase the contrast :/

[thesiscamper]

The three of us all agreed to make it as close to my latest renders as possible.

I must admit this makes me a little uneasy, given the colors are specified precisely by the values stated. I anticipated the end result being somewhere between the renders with just a little deviation from the color values (because GMK aren't likely to 100% matched.) A lot of people love the render, so it won't be the end of the world to sell the set unused, anyone who is disappointed should easily find a buyer.

That the designers prefer the slightly darker/grayer over the lighter/greener is fine in itself. What I wish is that your intentions were clearer, especially on the product pages - it's the ambiguity that's the problem here, not the final choice you made.

I understand your concern, and here's why we decided to change it: the solarized theme looked good on screens, but we felt the contrast between the mods and the alphas was lacking in caps. If you can find the earliest renders, there's almost no point in using different colors when they're almost indistinguishable from each other. For the most recent renders, I tried to introduce more contrast into the set, and the three of us liked it and it got good feedback, so we went with it. As for the color codes, it was a mistake on our part that we weren't clear enough, I just assumed everyone was in sync but we weren't.

For the mistake in keys, it's mostly misunderstanding again. I apologize on behalf of my friends, but we're trying to fix it but decided not ask for an updated GMK renders until we're sure we have the keys locked. The KLE is the most updated one.

But solarized dark is meant to be a low contrast theme, so I can't say I like the decision to increase the contrast :/

You can continue using it on your text editor and ignore this set. It doesn't have support for 40% anyway.

[Gatix]

Here's the final mockup of all the keys that will be included in each set. Apologies for the KLE mockup, GMK takes a while to re-render and we don't really want to bother them that much.



Just to summarize, here are the changes since the GB launch:

Base Kit
- Added 6u centered stem spacebar
- Replaced R4 1u Fn to R4 1.25u Fn
- Removed duplicate R1 Home
- Fixed R3 accent arrow up that should be R4
 
Colored Mods
- Added 1u ctrl and alt

Spacebar Kit
- Added barred J vim key
- Added 6u accent centered stem spacebar

[Petch]

Okay, looks great now 

[Auk]

Here's the final mockup...

Base Kit
- Added 6u centered stem spacebar...

If you can add it on the image I would be suggest stating that the 6u spacebar is centered stem, it seems to be asked endlessly on Massdrop keyset discussion (along with "is there a 2u shift?")

Since they're no longer defining the palette, I would remove the hex color codes as well. If possible tweak the overall color of this mockup to be closer to what you think the final set will be like.

[Auk]

...As for the color codes, it was a mistake on our part that we weren't clear enough, I just assumed everyone was in sync but we weren't.

It really didn't register with me until now. I do drift in and out of discussions and the group buy for Solarized starting when it did caught me by surprise - I think I'd decided the colors here were good, and rainb1ood said the modifiers would be text, which was perfect, so I focused my attention on ICs where I wanted to offer my $0.02. In my mind Solarized was a set I was satisfied I wanted, so I left it to the more experienced hands to figure the kit breakdowns and coverage. As a result I missed any talk about using the renders as the reference point for the final colors.

Rookie error I guess from my side, but it doesn't hurt me because I have belatedly become aware of the design evolution before being locked into a purchase.

...the contrast between the mods and the alphas was lacking in caps...

The colorway is based on Solarized Dark so I think anyone would expect some reasonable latitude has to be allowed in the transfer from 2D to physical object. The only issue now is for a few buyers the product advertised on the buy pages is not quite the product being produced.

I don't expect huge amounts of flak will be directed at jchan/Keyclack. Many people will look at your renders and expect or want exactly those, but jchan's rep might be dinged a little by those who wanted and expected the more literal Solarized Dark colors. Being able to sell the set for ~$150 or more should take the sting out of any disappointment.

Live and learn...

[jchan94]

hi everyone,

Just to clarify some things about the color codes: yes, they are hex color codes. however, we have to match them to pantone in order to review them thoroughly and make sure they are accurate.

Hex codes vary a lot between screen and screen, IPS..TN panels... 8bit...10 bit, etc, but we'll make sure to lock down the pantones and that will be a process we'll undergo with GMK as we commence with the color matching.

Hope that's good for everyone, cheers.

[kmba]

IDGAF just gimme dis set 

[Puddsy]

IDGAF just gimme dis set 

same

[yokken]

Great to see barred F and J. Was sad to see those missing from Nautilus, I guess they tried too hard to work Euro keys into the base kit at the expense of something I think more people would like. Gonna have to forget about this set for a while so I don't die of anticipation!

[Arallu]

hi everyone,

Just to clarify some things about the color codes: yes, they are hex color codes. however, we have to match them to pantone in order to review them thoroughly and make sure they are accurate.

Hex codes vary a lot between screen and screen, IPS..TN panels... 8bit...10 bit, etc, but we'll make sure to lock down the pantones and that will be a process we'll undergo with GMK as we commence with the color matching.

Hope that's good for everyone, cheers.

I'm confident you'll find the right colors since you'll need to verify the samples.
I think a lot of us are just wary after seeing for example gmk penumbra, where the expectation was to compare it to the SA version and when it finally landed, it was a little lacking, imo.