Author Topic: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.  (Read 1250036 times)

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Offline MOZ

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3200 on: Mon, 17 March 2014, 12:47:59 »
What iron are you using?

Offline Jette

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3201 on: Mon, 17 March 2014, 13:50:59 »
Yeah, it was 120V/30W, that was just a typo on my part. Sorry about that. It's an Edsyn CL1481.

Offline MOZ

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3202 on: Mon, 17 March 2014, 13:56:50 »
That iron is part of the GeekHackers LTS kit, so it should be fine.

Offline clickclack123

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3203 on: Mon, 17 March 2014, 17:13:50 »
I bought the iron in a "learn to solder" kit from someone on this website, who said it'd be fine for the ergodox. Not sure why he'd send one so much higher than necessary.

I'd like to get a better iron, but I'm not spending any more money on this thing until I know that it will work when I'm done. I've already dropped $400 on the ergodox kit plus the soldering kit.

Apart from the superfluous quantity, are these what I'm looking for? It's got the model number you mentioned, but I'm not sure what the other specifications mean.

Those are the correct diodes. I found them for cheaper on ebay though!

The iron should be fine, it's 120W 30V non-temperature controlled. Sounds close to what the assembly guide recommends.
I think you got the Watts and Volts mixed up. You mean 30W? The voltage should only match what is in your outlet: 120V in the US, 220V-240V in Europe.
I think that the wattage of the temperature-controlled soldering irons is not so important: it limits what maximum temperature it can provide.

I use a 15W soldering iron that is not temperature-controlled and it worked fine. It only needs a minute to get hot enough before I start using it. I have had problems with a 30W iron destroying the pads on a PCB when I have used it to desolder switches.

He said it was a non-temperature controlled iron.

Aah, stupid me, I did think it was very weird that he said that he had a 30V iron, but didn't think twice about it (we use 240V here in Australia so I didn't connect that it should have been 120V). 30W should be fine but is still on the high side for small components. You shouldn't hold the iron on the pads or components for ages or they will get damaged. I can tell from the dark burn marks on your pcb that you took waay too long on some pads. Try for about 2-3 seconds for each join. As soon as the solder goes liquid and the component has touched the liquid, you can remove the iron. You get faster the more you do it. It's pretty easy with a bit of practice (which the 80 switches on an ergodox will provide plenty of!).

Good luck. It's very satisfying when you get your first project working.  :thumb:
« Last Edit: Mon, 17 March 2014, 17:16:58 by clickclack123 »

Offline Jette

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3204 on: Mon, 17 March 2014, 18:21:08 »
I should have the new diodes by Wednesday, I'll let you know how it goes. I'm going to try using it as is until then, mismatched keycaps and all.

Ran into a new, less electrical problem trying to put it together: the spikes on the Teensy are so long the acrylic plates won't close on the right hand. Is it safe to snip and/or bend them back to make it fit?

Offline JustCallMeCrash

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3205 on: Mon, 17 March 2014, 18:28:24 »
Snip them off as close to the cone of the solder as you can manage.
ErgoDoxen 6 total: Cherry MX Browns, Cherry MX Clears, NovelKeys Box Royal, 80g Gateron Yellows, NovelKeys Pale Blues, NovelKeys Box Navy.
Preonic 2 total: OG Gateron Yellows (GMK silencer clips), TBD (unassembled v2).
XD-75 (mixed Gateron Yellows, MX Blacks, MX Clears on layer toggles).
Das S Professional (was MX Blues, now Ghetto Reds).
G80-11900.
ML-4400 (2x) Cherry MY boards.

Offline Jette

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3206 on: Wed, 19 March 2014, 19:59:08 »
Got the diodes today, and I managed to get it working. It was harder than it probably had to be, since I had to solder through-hole diodes without the luxury of, y'know, going through the hole, but I managed. Everything is working now.

The board is a joy to type in, as I had hoped. Using the TECK for the past 8 months has eliminated most of the adjustment phase most people go through (the grid layout, using only one thumb for space, etc.), but it's still going to take a lot of getting used to. Most notably:

1) It slides around. The split layout is genius, since you can set it wherever you want it limited only by the length of the cable (I may try to connect mine to the arms of a recliner so that I can work from the comfort of my imperial throne), but once you get it where you want it, it'd be nice to keep it there.

2) Vertical incline. I'd lay money this thing is supposed to be used slanted a little bit upward, and I don't know how to get it that way, assuming the reclining throne doesn't pan out. I've seen some models with fancy wooden wrist wrests, but I think those were custom-made or part of a limited run.

3) Wrist pain. This is probably just a matter of getting used to it, but my thumbs feel as if they're in very unnatural positions, having to stretch this far. Also, it's tricky reaching the modifier keys above the backspace, enter, space, and forward delete keys, and very difficult reaching the Home and Page Up keys. I have to move my entire hand to get to those ones.

4) Filthy rat-tails. Any chance of making this whole thing cordless?

Thanks again for all the help getting it working.

Offline JustCallMeCrash

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3207 on: Wed, 19 March 2014, 20:27:33 »
I've been wanting to go wireless with my EDs for months.  Closest thing I found (which doesn't work, btw, so don't waste your time or money) is the Bluetooth adapter from Handheld Scientific.  http://handheldsci.com/kb  Again, don't bother, it doesn't output enough power.
ErgoDoxen 6 total: Cherry MX Browns, Cherry MX Clears, NovelKeys Box Royal, 80g Gateron Yellows, NovelKeys Pale Blues, NovelKeys Box Navy.
Preonic 2 total: OG Gateron Yellows (GMK silencer clips), TBD (unassembled v2).
XD-75 (mixed Gateron Yellows, MX Blacks, MX Clears on layer toggles).
Das S Professional (was MX Blues, now Ghetto Reds).
G80-11900.
ML-4400 (2x) Cherry MY boards.

Offline Jette

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3208 on: Wed, 19 March 2014, 21:31:32 »
No-go for the USB part, then, but what about the pieces that look like a male-to-male 3.5mm audio jack? Any way we could get rid of that thing?

Offline clickclack123

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3209 on: Wed, 19 March 2014, 22:50:36 »
No-go for the USB part, then, but what about the pieces that look like a male-to-male 3.5mm audio jack? Any way we could get rid of that thing?

Great that you got your board working, congratulations!

You should get some rubber feet for it, if it's sliding around. Mine came with them (from czarek).

That cable is called the trrs cable. What would you want to put between the hands? They have to talk to each other via some mechanism. Wireless between the hands, when you're still using a usb cable, would be overly complicated IMO.

I've been wanting to go wireless with my EDs for months.  Closest thing I found (which doesn't work, btw, so don't waste your time or money) is the Bluetooth adapter from Handheld Scientific.  http://handheldsci.com/kb  Again, don't bother, it doesn't output enough power.

There is the Bluefruit EZ-Key as a bluetooth controller. It's of no use to me if it doesn't support nkro though, so I still need to investigate that. I asked on the Adafruit forums, and it does sound like it may be technically possible, but I'm still not sure how I'd get nkro over bluetooth working with the ErgoDox. I'm running the TMK firmware for nkro, btw.

I think I'd have to modify the TMK firmware somewhat to send the right raw HID reports to that board to convert it to bluetooth. This is currently beyond my understanding of how USB keyboards work.

Offline JustCallMeCrash

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3210 on: Thu, 20 March 2014, 03:32:57 »
Well, if we can't get nkro, maybe something like 5-6kro would be handy enough?  I'm even less familiar than you, but I ask a lot of questions. ;-)
ErgoDoxen 6 total: Cherry MX Browns, Cherry MX Clears, NovelKeys Box Royal, 80g Gateron Yellows, NovelKeys Pale Blues, NovelKeys Box Navy.
Preonic 2 total: OG Gateron Yellows (GMK silencer clips), TBD (unassembled v2).
XD-75 (mixed Gateron Yellows, MX Blacks, MX Clears on layer toggles).
Das S Professional (was MX Blues, now Ghetto Reds).
G80-11900.
ML-4400 (2x) Cherry MY boards.

Offline clickclack123

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3211 on: Thu, 20 March 2014, 17:21:21 »
Well, if we can't get nkro, maybe something like 5-6kro would be handy enough?  I'm even less familiar than you, but I ask a lot of questions. ;-)

I'd say that it'd be really easy to get 6kro working with the EZ-Key. That's what it's designed for.

Unfortunately I have to have nkro for stenography (chorded typing) using Plover.

Edit: Damn, I was just going to buy one, but it's out of stock. For reference, here is the info on how to send it keys by serial - there's a lot if info and even an Arduino test sketch there.
« Last Edit: Thu, 20 March 2014, 17:40:22 by clickclack123 »

Offline JustCallMeCrash

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3212 on: Thu, 20 March 2014, 19:21:45 »
Well, if we can't get nkro, maybe something like 5-6kro would be handy enough?  I'm even less familiar than you, but I ask a lot of questions. ;-)

I'd say that it'd be really easy to get 6kro working with the EZ-Key. That's what it's designed for.

Unfortunately I have to have nkro for stenography (chorded typing) using Plover.

Edit: Damn, I was just going to buy one, but it's out of stock. For reference, here is the info on how to send it keys by serial - there's a lot if info and even an Arduino test sketch there.

Oh, look... you linked an article written in Greek (or it might as well be for all of it I understood).  :p
ErgoDoxen 6 total: Cherry MX Browns, Cherry MX Clears, NovelKeys Box Royal, 80g Gateron Yellows, NovelKeys Pale Blues, NovelKeys Box Navy.
Preonic 2 total: OG Gateron Yellows (GMK silencer clips), TBD (unassembled v2).
XD-75 (mixed Gateron Yellows, MX Blacks, MX Clears on layer toggles).
Das S Professional (was MX Blues, now Ghetto Reds).
G80-11900.
ML-4400 (2x) Cherry MY boards.

Offline justnits

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3213 on: Fri, 21 March 2014, 01:38:41 »
new round of Ergodox gb at Massdrop
there's indication that the new backlit pcb for ergodox is still in testing process and will need more sophisticated or complicated soldering method...anyone knows about the difference for the backlit pcb version?
| | | |
Ducky DK9008 Shine 2 Gateron Red w/ Korean 55g gold lubed spring & custom LED | Ergodox with Aluminium top plate | IBM Model M SSK | GHPad | GON's Nerd TKL | Filco Majestouch 2 TKL MX Blue
[Sold]Keycool 87 PBT White Cherry MX Blue | [Sold]ikbc F-104 Cherry MX Brown

Offline Forvak

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3214 on: Fri, 21 March 2014, 06:03:32 »
Hello all.

Is there anyone in the South Bay Area who would be willing to let me do a test paragraph on their ErgoDox? I'm going to get *some* nice keyboard in the next month or so, but definitely need to try things out first.

Thanks!

Offline heissler

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3215 on: Sat, 22 March 2014, 12:02:18 »
Anyone had a single row on their boards not working (SW4:7 through 4:13 on the left hand)? I suppose it is a faulty IO expander, since everything else is working absolutely fine.
Has trouble not spending money on keyboards

Offline Thechemist

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3216 on: Sat, 22 March 2014, 12:55:21 »
Anyone had a single row on their boards not working (SW4:7 through 4:13 on the left hand)? I suppose it is a faulty IO expander, since everything else is working absolutely fine.

Start another thread and post pictures of the LH front and back pcb ( I/O expander front and back, and diodes on row4 )

Offline clickclack123

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3217 on: Sun, 23 March 2014, 05:28:25 »
Anyone had a single row on their boards not working (SW4:7 through 4:13 on the left hand)? I suppose it is a faulty IO expander, since everything else is working absolutely fine.

I would not suspect the IO expander first. I would think first that that row line was shorted to 5V or another row line somehow. I would check along these tracks (in red).

58451-0

and

58453-1

The rows are held at 5V until a key is pressed, then that part of the scan goes low. Here's an oscilloscope scan of the row line for the left thumbswitches, this is with me holding down all 6 thumbswitches. You can see it scanning every switch along the row individually. I assume the row that you're looking at is the same:

58457-2

« Last Edit: Sun, 23 March 2014, 05:32:42 by clickclack123 »

Offline heissler

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3218 on: Sun, 23 March 2014, 08:45:00 »
This is how the left hand looks like, I am now going to trace the lines a bit.


Has trouble not spending money on keyboards

Offline Thechemist

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3219 on: Sun, 23 March 2014, 14:00:33 »
This is how the left hand looks like, I am now going to trace the lines a bit.

Show Image

Show Image


Picture of the underside is sort of out of focus when you zoom in but 4:7 is missing a diode; check 4:10 and see if that works.

Edit: I did a continuity test and row4 corresponds to 4th pin from top left if you are looking from the back ( i have circled it in red ). Reflow that pin and see if that helps.

« Last Edit: Sun, 23 March 2014, 14:05:53 by Thechemist »

Offline heissler

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3220 on: Sun, 23 March 2014, 14:34:17 »
I took this picture before all diodes have been soldered on, so don't wonder why some are missing in there  ;)
I am afraid I have damaged the USB connector now from all the plugging in and out, my right hand is at ~3V now...
Can you do me a favor and have a quick look at the voltage between the IO expander the the left hand rows? If I remember correctly, I have seen a voltage as low as ~4V before the USB connector went ape****.
Has trouble not spending money on keyboards

Offline clickclack123

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3221 on: Tue, 25 March 2014, 00:41:39 »
This is how the left hand looks like, I am now going to trace the lines a bit.

Show Image

Show Image


Picture of the underside is sort of out of focus when you zoom in but 4:7 is missing a diode; check 4:10 and see if that works.

Edit: I did a continuity test and row4 corresponds to 4th pin from top left if you are looking from the back ( i have circled it in red ). Reflow that pin and see if that helps.

Show Image


Isn't it the 3rd pin from top left? I had the track highlighted in red on the image I posted a couple of posts back.

Offline clickclack123

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3222 on: Tue, 25 March 2014, 00:43:14 »
I took this picture before all diodes have been soldered on, so don't wonder why some are missing in there  ;)
I am afraid I have damaged the USB connector now from all the plugging in and out, my right hand is at ~3V now...
Can you do me a favor and have a quick look at the voltage between the IO expander the the left hand rows? If I remember correctly, I have seen a voltage as low as ~4V before the USB connector went ape****.

Sorry, I'm not sure. Where do you want us to measure between?

Offline Thechemist

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3223 on: Tue, 25 March 2014, 02:20:38 »
This is how the left hand looks like, I am now going to trace the lines a bit.

Show Image

Show Image


Picture of the underside is sort of out of focus when you zoom in but 4:7 is missing a diode; check 4:10 and see if that works.

Edit: I did a continuity test and row4 corresponds to 4th pin from top left if you are looking from the back ( i have circled it in red ). Reflow that pin and see if that helps.

Show Image


Isn't it the 3rd pin from top left? I had the track highlighted in red on the image I posted a couple of posts back.

Third pad for the teensy, fourth pad for the i/o expander.

Offline heissler

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3224 on: Tue, 25 March 2014, 14:45:04 »
Completely resoldering the USB and IO expander seems to have fixed the problem all along! Happily typing on Dox #2 now :)
Has trouble not spending money on keyboards

Offline clickclack123

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3225 on: Tue, 25 March 2014, 20:08:25 »
Completely resoldering the USB and IO expander seems to have fixed the problem all along! Happily typing on Dox #2 now :)

Great news!

Offline heissler

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3226 on: Wed, 26 March 2014, 04:36:57 »
Reverting my assumption, the whole left hand's connection is quite flaky and has failed on me several times during this morning. The right hand side is still working without problems :/
Has trouble not spending money on keyboards

Offline clickclack123

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3227 on: Wed, 26 March 2014, 04:53:09 »
Reverting my assumption, the whole left hand's connection is quite flaky and has failed on me several times during this morning. The right hand side is still working without problems :/

Oh, bad luck. The obvious suspect in that case would be the trrs connectors/cable then.

Offline bisl

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3228 on: Wed, 26 March 2014, 12:45:08 »
ESD can cause strange EMI problems. The discharge doesn't
need to be to/from the keyboard for there to be problems.
One simple way to generate a nice wideband EMI source is
to use a coil/solenoid and energize it with a D-cell battery.
Holding one side of the connection steady, keep making
and breaking the other connection so that you generate sparks.
If you do this near your keyboard and it causes problems then
you have demonstrated an EMC problem, and one possible
reason for the keyboard to experience strange symptoms.

I've heard of products suffering resets and other problems from
simply moving your body on a cloth seat - I've seen this personally
as well. At least here in the frozen north, this time of year is when
these issues will show as the humidity is so low that ESD is much
more frequent and energetic.

Try it out! Post your results!

Another possible solution: Put a humidifier in your room and see
if the problem goes away.

Hi all! Haven't been around in a while, but I want to chime in to say that both my wife and I experienced these problems, and both of us came to the same conclusion as this: static. Our place is very dry (Chicago winter yay) and even with a humidifier it's still a problem. Plus our desk chairs at home are cloth, so we're exceedingly susceptible to this. Our solution is just to yank the USB and replace to reboot the keyboard--it's annoying, but it's a 5-second fix so it's tolerable.

Offline sordna

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3229 on: Wed, 26 March 2014, 13:00:38 »
Yes, I'm doing that too, although yank the connector off a USB hub instead of off the Ergodox so I don't wear out that delicate connector!

The incidences where my Ergodox freezes have actually gone down, now happening maybe once a week.
... But I'm really careful not to drag my feet on the floor!

I do wonder if there is some pin on the teensy or something that we could ground, to resolve the issue.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline fisofo

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3230 on: Wed, 26 March 2014, 21:29:11 »
I ended up picking up some ESD circuits from digikey and have the schematics to wire them for protecting the USB circut, but it's hard to solder it in since they are surface mount and I don't have pads to solder them to. That and I just don't have time right now.

My ergodox actually has some sort of fried usb component, as it will only work when connected to an external hub. Direct connect to the PC does not work. So my eventual plan is wire the ESD and test it, then swap in the new teensy I picked up. For now I picked up an ESD Mat and have gotten in the habit of touching that before the keyboard, which has ceased any problems with the keyboard needing an unplug/replug (an issue I've also had).

The next ergodox revision should just have ESD built into it, or at least the wiring to make it an option.

Offline clickclack123

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3231 on: Wed, 26 March 2014, 22:20:25 »
Some usb cables have that kind of cylindrical filter? thing around them, would that help with anything?

I haven't had any problems with mine from an ESD standpoint. I've had other weird problems though.

Do you have an aluminum case or something?

I'd be surprised if something fried in the teensy would only have the effect of causing it to not be able to be used without a hub. Could it be some kind of driver issue with you motherboard usb chipset? Or some kind of usb power issue? Is it a powered hub that you're using?

I'd suggest trying it on another pc with a different chipset without a hub.
« Last Edit: Wed, 26 March 2014, 22:25:40 by clickclack123 »

Offline jalli

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3232 on: Wed, 26 March 2014, 22:31:43 »
The cylindrical filter is called a choke or ferrite and works by blocking frequency ranges, typically high frequency noise picked up from RF stuff and such, just be sure that your USB signal frequencies are not blocked by the choke. You pick them based on what you want to filter/not filter and this determines sizes, etc.


Some usb cables have that kind of cylindrical filter? thing around them, would that help with anything?

I haven't had any problems with mine from an ESD standpoint. I've had other weird problems though.

Do you have an aluminum case or something?

I'd be surprised if something fried in the teensy would only have the effect of causing it to not be able to be used without a hub. Could it be some kind of driver issue with you motherboard usb chipset? Or some kind of usb power issue? Is it a powered hub that you're using?

I'd suggest trying it on another pc with a different chipset without a hub.
Antonia

Offline MOZ

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3233 on: Thu, 27 March 2014, 00:40:16 »
I've been working on a revision with built in ESD protection,  along with some other features.  I've been stalled by some other work. Once that is done I will get back to it. I'll post the progress thus far, and if anybody wants they can give the track routing a try themselves.

Offline heissler

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3234 on: Thu, 27 March 2014, 03:12:57 »
The cylindrical filter is called a choke or ferrite and works by blocking frequency ranges, typically high frequency noise picked up from RF stuff and such, just be sure that your USB signal frequencies are not blocked by the choke. You pick them based on what you want to filter/not filter and this determines sizes, etc.


Uhm, that's not how ferrite cores work  ;) They are not used to filter out immission into the cable, they are used to prevent the cable to work as an antenna for spurious HF emissions FROM the cable. And of course, they do not "block" signals inside of the cable.
Has trouble not spending money on keyboards

Offline sakai4eva

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3235 on: Thu, 27 March 2014, 03:43:17 »
I have a question. A few actually, but they all lead to the same place.

Is it possible to just have the left hand unit running at any time?

I'm thinking that I can reverse the PCBs (possible?) and reverse solder everything on.

The reason I ask is that I might only be using one side effectively when gaming, and the option to do so would be nice.

Offline heissler

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3236 on: Thu, 27 March 2014, 03:48:10 »
I have a question. A few actually, but they all lead to the same place.

Is it possible to just have the left hand unit running at any time?

I'm thinking that I can reverse the PCBs (possible?) and reverse solder everything on.

The reason I ask is that I might only be using one side effectively when gaming, and the option to do so would be nice.

Regarding the fact that my left hand is currently acting funny and becomes unresponsive, and the right hand still works after unplugging the left side, I assume you might be able to only run the teensy/usb connector side at any given time.
Has trouble not spending money on keyboards

Offline sakai4eva

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3237 on: Thu, 27 March 2014, 04:15:53 »
I have a question. A few actually, but they all lead to the same place.

Is it possible to just have the left hand unit running at any time?

I'm thinking that I can reverse the PCBs (possible?) and reverse solder everything on.

The reason I ask is that I might only be using one side effectively when gaming, and the option to do so would be nice.

Regarding the fact that my left hand is currently acting funny and becomes unresponsive, and the right hand still works after unplugging the left side, I assume you might be able to only run the teensy/usb connector side at any given time.

Question is, will I be able to just use the right side, flip it around and just use one side instead of both? Kinda like a Razer Orbweaver (gasp!) or the equivalent?

Offline heissler

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3238 on: Thu, 27 March 2014, 04:23:44 »
I have a question. A few actually, but they all lead to the same place.

Is it possible to just have the left hand unit running at any time?

I'm thinking that I can reverse the PCBs (possible?) and reverse solder everything on.

The reason I ask is that I might only be using one side effectively when gaming, and the option to do so would be nice.

Regarding the fact that my left hand is currently acting funny and becomes unresponsive, and the right hand still works after unplugging the left side, I assume you might be able to only run the teensy/usb connector side at any given time.

Question is, will I be able to just use the right side, flip it around and just use one side instead of both? Kinda like a Razer Orbweaver (gasp!) or the equivalent?

The current revision of the PCB is uniform and can be used with both sides! :)
Has trouble not spending money on keyboards

Offline sakai4eva

  • Posts: 281
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3239 on: Thu, 27 March 2014, 04:47:08 »
I have a question. A few actually, but they all lead to the same place.

Is it possible to just have the left hand unit running at any time?

I'm thinking that I can reverse the PCBs (possible?) and reverse solder everything on.

The reason I ask is that I might only be using one side effectively when gaming, and the option to do so would be nice.

Regarding the fact that my left hand is currently acting funny and becomes unresponsive, and the right hand still works after unplugging the left side, I assume you might be able to only run the teensy/usb connector side at any given time.

Question is, will I be able to just use the right side, flip it around and just use one side instead of both? Kinda like a Razer Orbweaver (gasp!) or the equivalent?

The current revision of the PCB is uniform and can be used with both sides! :)

Ah! That's exactly what I needed to know. Much appreciated.

Offline jalli

  • Posts: 101
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3240 on: Thu, 27 March 2014, 15:54:15 »
I think you and I are saying the same thing or at least I hope so otherwise my 5 years of working with electronic control systems for plasma arcs/high frequency/high voltage systems was a big waste :)

Ferrites prevent a cable/conductor from "conducting" certain frequencies by absorbing or reflecting them regardless of the source, the term conducting is kinda odd for HT at this point since the HF signals are actually travelling on the surface of the conductor.

The cylindrical filter is called a choke or ferrite and works by blocking frequency ranges, typically high frequency noise picked up from RF stuff and such, just be sure that your USB signal frequencies are not blocked by the choke. You pick them based on what you want to filter/not filter and this determines sizes, etc.


Uhm, that's not how ferrite cores work  ;) They are not used to filter out immission into the cable, they are used to prevent the cable to work as an antenna for spurious HF emissions FROM the cable. And of course, they do not "block" signals inside of the cable.
Antonia

Offline clickclack123

  • Posts: 357
  • Location: Australia, Mate!
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3241 on: Thu, 27 March 2014, 17:50:22 »
I have a question. A few actually, but they all lead to the same place.

Is it possible to just have the left hand unit running at any time?

I'm thinking that I can reverse the PCBs (possible?) and reverse solder everything on.

The reason I ask is that I might only be using one side effectively when gaming, and the option to do so would be nice.

Regarding the fact that my left hand is currently acting funny and becomes unresponsive, and the right hand still works after unplugging the left side, I assume you might be able to only run the teensy/usb connector side at any given time.

Question is, will I be able to just use the right side, flip it around and just use one side instead of both? Kinda like a Razer Orbweaver (gasp!) or the equivalent?

The current revision of the PCB is uniform and can be used with both sides! :)

Ah! That's exactly what I needed to know. Much appreciated.

If you were just going to use a left hand by itself, wouldn't you need to mount the usb connector/teensy on the underside of the board? That would be hard to fit inside a case...

Offline fisofo

  • Posts: 65
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3242 on: Thu, 27 March 2014, 19:58:47 »
Do you have an aluminum case or something?

I'd be surprised if something fried in the teensy would only have the effect of causing it to not be able to be used without a hub. Could it be some kind of driver issue with you motherboard usb chipset? Or some kind of usb power issue? Is it a powered hub that you're using?

I'd suggest trying it on another pc with a different chipset without a hub.

Yes, aluminum top layer. And yep, I had the same thought as you, but three different computers and all the same problem with Windows not picking it up properly unless I use a hub. Same computers with a new teensy: no problem.

It's super annoying. Not looking forward to desoldering all those pins for the teensy. But it works well enough for now, so whatever.

Offline fisofo

  • Posts: 65
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3243 on: Thu, 27 March 2014, 19:59:24 »
I've been working on a revision with built in ESD protection,  along with some other features.  I've been stalled by some other work. Once that is done I will get back to it. I'll post the progress thus far, and if anybody wants they can give the track routing a try themselves.

Good to hear! That'll be really nice.

Offline heissler

  • Posts: 121
  • Location: Germany
  • I engineer invisible stuff
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3244 on: Fri, 28 March 2014, 02:07:52 »
I think you and I are saying the same thing or at least I hope so otherwise my 5 years of working with electronic control systems for plasma arcs/high frequency/high voltage systems was a big waste :)

Ferrites prevent a cable/conductor from "conducting" certain frequencies by absorbing or reflecting them regardless of the source, the term conducting is kinda odd for HT at this point since the HF signals are actually travelling on the surface of the conductor.

The cylindrical filter is called a choke or ferrite and works by blocking frequency ranges, typically high frequency noise picked up from RF stuff and such, just be sure that your USB signal frequencies are not blocked by the choke. You pick them based on what you want to filter/not filter and this determines sizes, etc.


Uhm, that's not how ferrite cores work  ;) They are not used to filter out immission into the cable, they are used to prevent the cable to work as an antenna for spurious HF emissions FROM the cable. And of course, they do not "block" signals inside of the cable.

I was just referring to the part "just be sure that your USB signal frequencies are not blocked by the choke" of your post, which suggests that the ferrite core can somehow filter signals inside of the cable, which is obviously not true.
Has trouble not spending money on keyboards

Offline sakai4eva

  • Posts: 281
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3245 on: Fri, 28 March 2014, 02:52:08 »
I have a question. A few actually, but they all lead to the same place.

Is it possible to just have the left hand unit running at any time?

I'm thinking that I can reverse the PCBs (possible?) and reverse solder everything on.

The reason I ask is that I might only be using one side effectively when gaming, and the option to do so would be nice.

Regarding the fact that my left hand is currently acting funny and becomes unresponsive, and the right hand still works after unplugging the left side, I assume you might be able to only run the teensy/usb connector side at any given time.

Question is, will I be able to just use the right side, flip it around and just use one side instead of both? Kinda like a Razer Orbweaver (gasp!) or the equivalent?

The current revision of the PCB is uniform and can be used with both sides! :)

Ah! That's exactly what I needed to know. Much appreciated.

If you were just going to use a left hand by itself, wouldn't you need to mount the usb connector/teensy on the underside of the board? That would be hard to fit inside a case...

I have a question. A few actually, but they all lead to the same place.

Is it possible to just have the left hand unit running at any time?

I'm thinking that I can reverse the PCBs (possible?) and reverse solder everything on.

The reason I ask is that I might only be using one side effectively when gaming, and the option to do so would be nice.

Regarding the fact that my left hand is currently acting funny and becomes unresponsive, and the right hand still works after unplugging the left side, I assume you might be able to only run the teensy/usb connector side at any given time.

Question is, will I be able to just use the right side, flip it around and just use one side instead of both? Kinda like a Razer Orbweaver (gasp!) or the equivalent?

The current revision of the PCB is uniform and can be used with both sides! :)

Ah! That's exactly what I needed to know. Much appreciated.

If you were just going to use a left hand by itself, wouldn't you need to mount the usb connector/teensy on the underside of the board? That would be hard to fit inside a case...

I'll solder on the other side of the PCB. I think.

Offline eviltobz

  • Posts: 95
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3246 on: Fri, 28 March 2014, 05:25:39 »
...
I'll solder on the other side of the PCB. I think.
you'll want to have a trawl through this loooooong old thread. there's been discussion about doing a right hander previously. iirc you may need to modify the firmware due to things lining up differently when some stuff is mounted underneath.

Offline sakai4eva

  • Posts: 281
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3247 on: Mon, 31 March 2014, 05:35:14 »
...
I'll solder on the other side of the PCB. I think.
you'll want to have a trawl through this loooooong old thread. there's been discussion about doing a right hander previously. iirc you may need to modify the firmware due to things lining up differently when some stuff is mounted underneath.

No trawling! I'll just solder everything upside down (right polarity though) and pray it works. As for the firmware, I'd just slowly poke through the settings. I imagine it'll be upside down or something in the end.

Offline eviltobz

  • Posts: 95
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3248 on: Mon, 31 March 2014, 08:33:16 »
No trawling! I'll just solder everything upside down (right polarity though) and pray it works. As for the firmware, I'd just slowly poke through the settings. I imagine it'll be upside down or something in the end.
well, that's an option too ;) just as long as you know to expect to have fun and games in code with the firmware once it's all done. good luck!

Offline SubGothius

  • Posts: 79
  • Location: Tucson, AZ USA
    • HTDoctor.com
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #3249 on: Mon, 31 March 2014, 16:26:55 »
The board is a joy to type in, as I had hoped. Using the TECK for the past 8 months has eliminated most of the adjustment phase most people go through (the grid layout, using only one thumb for space, etc.), but it's still going to take a lot of getting used to. Most notably:

1) It slides around. The split layout is genius, since you can set it wherever you want it limited only by the length of the cable (I may try to connect mine to the arms of a recliner so that I can work from the comfort of my imperial throne), but once you get it where you want it, it'd be nice to keep it there.

Some have inserted the cap screws from the bottom, putting the nuts on top, and/or replaced those with M3 acorn nuts. You can find stick-on rubber bumper feet at hardware stores, just make sure they're thicker than what sticks out of the screws on the bottom. Another solution would be to get a couple cheap mousepads (the basic neoprene style would work well), or one big one (at least shoulder width).

Quote
2) Vertical incline. I'd lay money this thing is supposed to be used slanted a little bit upward, and I don't know how to get it that way, assuming the reclining throne doesn't pan out. I've seen some models with fancy wooden wrist wrests, but I think those were custom-made or part of a limited run.

IMO, the simplest and easiest way of achieving tenting and/or tilt is to use the PCB standoffs I discovered at Radio Shack, with or without additional M3 screws inserted on the bottom -- see my previous posts here:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42231.msg923460#msg923460
...and here:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg980720#msg980720

That also gives you another no-skid option by putting rubber caps on the standoffs/screws. Ultimately, I decided the negative-tilt was unnecessary and just maximized my tenting by using the longest M3 screws I could find at the hardware store, which happened to be Philips pan/cheese head type.

Quote
3) Wrist pain. This is probably just a matter of getting used to it, but my thumbs feel as if they're in very unnatural positions, having to stretch this far. Also, it's tricky reaching the modifier keys above the backspace, enter, space, and forward delete keys, and very difficult reaching the Home and Page Up keys. I have to move my entire hand to get to those ones.

My hands are pretty tiny (I wear size small gloves), but once I got the boards properly positioned to match the position of my hands and fingers in a neutral, relaxed position, angled to put the nearest thumb keys directly under my thumbs, I have no issues with reaching the thumb keys. It may also help that I'm using DCS-/Cherry OEM-style keycaps with their top edge facing the main cluster for the nearest thumb keys, which puts the cap face as close as possible to the main cluster.

As for the Home and PgUp keys, on a standard keyboard you probably had to move your entire hand at least somewhat to reach those anyway, but you can remap any custom layout you desire using Massdrop's ErgoDox Configurator -- e.g., here's the QWERTY layout with inverted-T arrow cluster I eventually settled on after some real-world use and fine-tuning, and I really wanted to like this alternate layout I devised to put cursor/page nav keys on the thumb clusters, but ultimately I just wasn't patient enough to retrain myself to use the cursor arrow keys like that. It occurs to me now that a novel approach would assign Home/End and PgUp/PgDn to the 1.5x keys on the inboard columns, so you might play with that idea.
« Last Edit: Mon, 31 March 2014, 16:30:27 by SubGothius »
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut