ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.

[thadood]

..Annnd round three comes to an end with 189 purchased!

[ic07]

And already 33 people requesting a 4th round, lol :-)

[vatin]

Glad I got in this round. Hope ergodox will lead to some paradigm shift of input.

[daerid]

It really does. It's quite hard to believe until you've typed on one for a decent mount of time. It takes a while to totally un-train your hands from all the bad QWERTY practices (my left hand still jumps all over the place when typing, for instance), but you can definitely feel an improvement in a very short time (a matter of days for me).

[bisl]

I still use my right middle finger to hit the U in number. God dammit qwerty.

[thadood]

I still use my right middle finger to hit the U in number. God dammit qwerty.

Perhaps it's because I used to use an MS Natural 4000 + got proper typing technique beaten into my head during middle school, but I've never used my middle finger to hit U, only my index. Hopefully I won't struggle when I get these things built!

[CommunistWitchDr]

Just got mine  assembled, seems good so far, bit confusing. Have a small issue with key repeat, anyone share this issue or have a fix?

[Larken]

Just got mine  assembled, seems good so far, bit confusing. Have a small issue with key repeat, anyone share this issue or have a fix?

Show Image

looking good. which key/keys are repeating? It's likely a cold solder joint. Just reflow the solder on the affect keys and see if that works. If not check the joints on the teensy too.

[CommunistWitchDr]

Just got mine  assembled, seems good so far, bit confusing. Have a small issue with key repeat, anyone share this issue or have a fix?

Show Image

looking good. which key/keys are repeating? It's likely a cold solder joint. Just reflow the solder on the affect keys and see if that works. If not check the joints on the teensy too.

A few of them, hard to say which because it doesn't happen every time. I'll open it back up and check it out tomorrow. Sounds like  a pretty easy fix if that's the problem.

[vatin]

Just got mine  assembled, seems good so far, bit confusing. Have a small issue with key repeat, anyone share this issue or have a fix?

Show Image

Is that aluminium cast or do you apply some material on top?

[CommunistWitchDr]

Just got mine  assembled, seems good so far, bit confusing. Have a small issue with key repeat, anyone share this issue or have a fix?

Show Image

Is that aluminium cast or do you apply some material on top?

Neither, it's a custom cut acrylic case with a black middle and white top/bottom.

[kurplop]

I haven't seen anybody use flathead screws and countersink them into the top with the acrylic. Do you think it might crack the case?

[daerid]

I think I like the white vinyl better than the carbon fiber.

[Larken]

I haven't seen anybody use flathead screws and countersink them into the top with the acrylic. Do you think it might crack the case?

From what information I found online about countersinking acrylic, it seems that cracking/splitting is common, due to the heat generating from drilling. (most recommend doing it slowly, and constantly spraying water while countersinking to keep the heat down, even on a big piece of acrylic). Due to the screw holes being so close to the edge of the acrylic in the ergodox case, I would think the chances of cracking is very likely.

I doubt I will ever try it, mainly due to the lack of tools on my end, but if I do, I'll probably do it with a hand countersink tool instead of using anything automated.

[ic07]

I haven't seen anybody use flathead screws and countersink them into the top with the acrylic. Do you think it might crack the case?

I've been messing with a practice piece of acrylic for a while now, and I plan to countersink the top (and bottom, for use with some nuts I'm going to try to grind down to a 90 degree angle) on all of my cases. Sure hope it doesn't crack!

[AloisiusFauxly]

With all of the talk of the thumb cluster moving in more and having added a hackintosh to my setup I figured I'd use the space next to the thumbs to mount another switch for the apple/command key. I drilled holes in the board for a PCB-mount switch and attached jumper wires to the upper thumb switch positions (1|5 and 1|8), and modified a 2x1 keycap to fit.

I use the black+green keys with my thumbs, and it's pretty comfy for all of them. From left to right they are L1, gui, space, enter ... delete, backspace, gui, L1.

Full album here

[kurplop]

Good idea. Why did you have to go to a 1.5 cap? It looks like the 2x would still fit.

I'm working on a thumb cluster mod too. It will take some time but the ergo benefit will be great.   http://flic.kr/s/aHsjGiY7Wa   

All six thumb keys are very easy to reach.

[longweight]

I have a plan to hide the screws Just need my board!

[kurplop]

I wonder if a sex bolt would work?

[ic07]

I wonder if a sex bolt would work?

I looked forever, but I couldn't find any ~3x20mm, with both heads the right shape for countersinking...  Then again, my hardware searching skills aren't quite up to par with a lot of people here yet :-) .

[AloisiusFauxly]

Sex bolts would be a good way to go, even without countersinking.

@kerplop - I went with a 1.5x because my thumb knuckle would hit the corner of a 2x:

[Glod]

I think I like the white vinyl better than the carbon fiber.

it appears CWDr's layers are custom cut acrylic that looks awesome, it's what a litster case SHOULD look like.

but if you are taking the vinyl route i would be worried about any light colored vinyl because any minor mistakes in cutting with the hobby knife are going to show more obvious than a darker color like black, at least that is my opinion. may be worth buying extra material or even multiple kinds to see what works best. once i get more money available im gonna grab extra colors to not just put on my acrylic one(s) but putting it on the metal one may also be a solution to the problem with it.

[SubGothius]

The problem with sex bolts/binding posts is that their post diameter is a standard 13/64" (5.16mm), so you'd have to drill out the provided 3mm holes, which may risk cracking or chipping the acrylic. Switching to button-head screws may a better option.

[CommunistWitchDr]

Just got mine  assembled, seems good so far, bit confusing. Have a small issue with key repeat, anyone share this issue or have a fix?

Show Image

looking good. which key/keys are repeating? It's likely a cold solder joint. Just reflow the solder on the affect keys and see if that works. If not check the joints on the teensy too.

I've reflowed solder on the bad keys to no avail. Still doubletapping. What's the likelyhood of it being the switch itself?

[Glod]

Just got mine  assembled, seems good so far, bit confusing. Have a small issue with key repeat, anyone share this issue or have a fix?

Show Image

looking good. which key/keys are repeating? It's likely a cold solder joint. Just reflow the solder on the affect keys and see if that works. If not check the joints on the teensy too.

I've reflowed solder on the bad keys to no avail. Still doubletapping. What's the likelyhood of it being the switch itself?

i mean if that was happening to me i would have replaced with a new switch and diode though i doubt it is the switch.

[actionbastard]

Just got mine  assembled, seems good so far, bit confusing. Have a small issue with key repeat, anyone share this issue or have a fix?

Show Image

looking good. which key/keys are repeating? It's likely a cold solder joint. Just reflow the solder on the affect keys and see if that works. If not check the joints on the teensy too.

I've reflowed solder on the bad keys to no avail. Still doubletapping. What's the likelyhood of it being the switch itself?

i mean if that was happening to me i would have replaced with a new switch and diode though i doubt it is the switch.

Could a bad diode cause chattering?

My XArmor has random chattering in about 5 different keys. I've switched the switches with other, less used switches such as scroll lock, the chattering still persisted. I never messed with anything over and above that though.

[Larken]

Just got mine  assembled, seems good so far, bit confusing. Have a small issue with key repeat, anyone share this issue or have a fix?

Show Image

looking good. which key/keys are repeating? It's likely a cold solder joint. Just reflow the solder on the affect keys and see if that works. If not check the joints on the teensy too.

I've reflowed solder on the bad keys to no avail. Still doubletapping. What's the likelyhood of it being the switch itself?

Pretty low chance imo. Unless you opened up the switch before and messed up the contact leaf while doing it. Unlikely, but it can happen.

A few questions - does the keys reside on a single hand? (if the chattering is only on the left hand, then its likely a joint on the 3.5mm jack or the transponder, though that too, is unlikely - mainly because if the signal is lost between the halves, the keyboard would just stop working until it is replugged.)

Like Glod and actionbastard pointed out, did u reflow the diodes too?

Are there any patterns to the affected keys - ie reside in the same column/row? Specifying which keys would be helpful.

Barring the above, a high res picture of the back of your pcb would help in the troubleshooting.

Good idea. Why did you have to go to a 1.5 cap? It looks like the 2x would still fit.

I'm working on a thumb cluster mod too. It will take some time but the ergo benefit will be great.   http://flic.kr/s/aHsjGiY7Wa   
(Attachment Link)
All six thumb keys are very easy to reach.

This is just wow. Surprised no one commented on this yet. The extend of this mod definitely takes the keyboard beyond the default ergodox, worthy of a thread on its own.

[MOZ]

Trying to get the PCB fabricated and there were some small issues, such as NPTH holes overlapping PTH holes.

Is this present in the Massdrop PCB as well?

I have got the PCB designs from the website.

[CommunistWitchDr]

Just got mine  assembled, seems good so far, bit confusing. Have a small issue with key repeat, anyone share this issue or have a fix?

Show Image

looking good. which key/keys are repeating? It's likely a cold solder joint. Just reflow the solder on the affect keys and see if that works. If not check the joints on the teensy too.

I've reflowed solder on the bad keys to no avail. Still doubletapping. What's the likelyhood of it being the switch itself?

Pretty low chance imo. Unless you opened up the switch before and messed up the contact leaf while doing it. Unlikely, but it can happen.

A few questions - does the keys reside on a single hand? (if the chattering is only on the left hand, then its likely a joint on the 3.5mm jack or the transponder, though that too, is unlikely - mainly because if the signal is lost between the halves, the keyboard would just stop working until it is replugged.)

Like Glod and actionbastard pointed out, did u reflow the diodes too?
 of this mod definitely takes the keyboard beyond the default ergodox, worthy of a thread on its own.

So far everything I've noticed has been on the right side, not to say the left doesn't have anything. Just if it does it rarely repeats, or is on an uncommon letter.

Most of the switches were opened beforehand to have inbuilt diodes removed, just a simple open and let diode slide out. I refloed the smd diodes, as well as all teensy pins that didn't look perfect, but will check them again.

The keys I've noticed the effect on- o (; in qwerty), i (l in qwerty), and the left bottom key on the right hand, exempting the thumb cluster. Other keys I use less (or have lower repeat chances) may also be effected.

[Larken]

unlike to be the teensy in this case, as a bad joint there would usually mean you'd have a problem with an entire row/column.

I'll swap out the switches for new ones if you have extras on hand. it doesn't sound like your case, but sometimes dirt and grime in the contact leaf can cause chattering. Unlikely but worth a look.

that's the few things I can think of offhand.

[ic07]

Finally put together one of the kits from massdrop!  Thought I'd share a few pics.

After much deliberation, I decided to put the LEDs into the case, in the top right of the right hand side


I'm really happy with the way it worked out .  Used some nice brad point bits to drill out these holes.  You could do it with regular bits, but you'd have to be much more careful to get the holes as clean.  A few turns (maybe 3) of a countersink bit by hand on the top , and then maybe 3 times that many on the bottom (to lessen the thickness just slightly) made these bezels fit perfectly.  I got the flat LEDs from the same place (they're really bright though at 20mA; I'm giving them much less, using 10kΩ resistors).

EDIT: Forgot to mention: In order to have space for this, you must solder the Teensy to the PCB without spacers in between, only a thin sheet of some insulating material (my Dad gave me a piece of kevlar tape, I think it was, to use).  This is kind of a pain, since you still have to solder the pins to both the top of the Teensy and the bottom of the PCB, but I can't think of a good workaround.  Everything appears to work just fine, but I haven't tested it extensively.  Also, I chose to solder the resistors to the underside of the pins where the LEDs would normally go, and the leads of the LEDs to the resistors' pins (as someone suggested a while back).

I really like Litster's case in clear acrylic, dust, scratches, etc., not withstanding.  Looks much better in person, IMHO, haven't seen a picture yet (including this one, lol) that does it justice :-)


I countersunk all the holes, top and bottom.  Not perfectly clean... but I'm happy.  With practice (on a spare sheet of acrylic that I got just for this reason), it's not too difficult to do it without cracking the plate or melting the hole.


Still need to do something with the bottom though...  I planned to bevel the nuts and grind off the bolts a little, but I couldn't get it right when I tried tonight.  Leaving to visit my grandparents for the rest of the summer tomorrow, so it'll have to wait till I get back.

[kurplop]

Nice details on the acrylic case. I think your the first to post bolt mods on the acrylic case. To bevel the nuts you might try double-nutting two nuts to a screw, mounting it to a drill and spinning it diagonally against an abrasive stone or sandpaper. Also, some plastic compound and a felt pad mounted on a Dremel should polish the milling to a glass finish.

Thanks for being the first to have the guts to try this. Did it feel at all like the case would crack when you tightened the nuts?

[ic07]

Thanks :-) .  Beveling the nuts wasn't too bad, though I didn't think to polish them afterwards (since that part won't be seen).  When I try again, I might do that though.  Actually, it was the bolts that were giving me the biggest problem, since I couldn't grind them without messing up the last thread, since I don't know what I'm doing...  Super frustrating.  My dad said he could show me how later though.

And there weren't overly many guts required for the countersinking, since I practiced (a lot) first, lol.  The case didn't feel like it was even close to cracking for me, even on the one bolt that seems to be under a bit of tension.  I was worried about that too though, earlier on, so on one of my test pieces (which were thinner than the top and bottom layers of the case), I took a nut that we had ground a bit too steep on the end of a bolt, put it into a countersunk hole, and pressed on it as hard as I thought the bolt ever would when I put things together - and nothing happened, which actually surprised me a little.  Came to the conclusion that acrylic is reasonably tough stuff for the purposes we're putting it to.

[MOZ]

How about laser etching the countersinks, it won't be tapered like a true countersink, however it should house the flat-head screws quite well.

Thinking of getting my own acrylic case cut, and make these changes along with LED holes almost at the same positions as ic07.

But first need to get the PCB fabricated, and regarding that, can anyone help eliminating the overlaps between the through holes, the fabricator is asking for 3x the price for a PCB with through holes overlappping as opposed to one without overlapping holes.

[MOZ]

Made some changes to the PCB design so the NPTH holes would not overlap with the PTH holes in the 7th column.

Can someone please review and tell me if this is okay (First time editing PCB)

[Zustiur]

I can't believe I missed 3 entire runs of this board. lol.
I've just put requests on 3 different massdrop pages because I'm not sure which one is current.

[cgbuen]

I just got a kit and have a few questions about diodes. I want to avoid the surface-mount diodes and use the through-holes, but I've read that there are fitting problems between the layers if you solder them directly to the board on the same side you would a surface-mount ones. However, I've harvested a bunch of switches with in-switch diodes from a G80-8200 (i.e. they are MX1A-xxDx). It seems like this would be a good compromise because it has the ease of soldering with the through-holes, and diode solder joints are now on the same side as the switch's solder joints, which I guess would alleviate that plate/PCB fitting problem. I have seated them and saw that the pins do actually fit perfectly on the PCB.

I'm looking at the in-switch diodes themselves and comparing them to the through-hole diodes included with the kit, and they look pretty identical. I guess my questions are:

1. Which side is the anode and and which is the cathode? (i.e. is the cathode the side with the black band or the one without?)
2. Are half the switches supposed to have the diode flipped around to accommodate for the two hands? (i.e. 38 have the black band pointing and 38 have the black band pointing right, and then you put the appropriate switches on the proper hands?)
3. Both my in-switch and kit ones have the numbers "41" and "48" etched on them, but they have a difference: in-switch ones also have the letters "PH", whereas the kit ones have some strange crossmark. Is there any significance to this?
4. Are the three LED switches on the right hand PCB going to have problems this way? Do I have to reserve those 3 spots to actually use the surface-mount diodes?

EDIT: One more question - 5. If I sticker the switch, the sticker touches the diode. Is this fine? I'm using the vinyl ones from MiMic.

[ic07]

1: The cathode is the side with the black band

2: The cathode should be on the side where the pad that would normally receive a through hole diode is square. For in switch diodes, this means you should flip all the diodes for the left hand side. Alternately, you can change a makefile option and compile your own firmware - whichever seems easier.

3: I would suppose that the diodes are slightly different, but I'd be really surprised if they weren't all well within tolerance for this project. And I can't think of any reason why mixing them would do any harm. Hopefully someone who knows more can correct me of I'm wrong.

4: Using in-switch diodes probably won't work for the three keys that take LEDs. You might be able to make it work if you were careful... But I would recommend trying the SMDs on just those three keys, if you could. A couple other people have posted about their methods, and to me it sounds doable. Otherwise, soldering through hole diodes to the underside of the board shouldn't create any spacing issues either, as long as you clip the leads flush with the board *before* soldering, and make sure not to flood the joint with too much. It may push the PCB down just slightly in that side of the board, but as long as you're careful it shouldn't create any problems. Disclaimer: I haven't personally tried either method, as the mod I posted above, as a side effect, allowed me to get away with using in-switch diodes for all my keys.

5: Don't see why that would cause any problems, unless it looks like it might put mechanical stress on the solder joint over time, somehow?

[doublethink]

Would it be possible to make just the left hand side of this for use as a gaming keyboard?  I see the teensy is in the right case so I guess that is a requirement for the stock configuration.



EDIT:  Answered my own question, 6KRO.

[cgbuen]

Sweet, thanks for the info ic07. I should be able to proceed along now.

[ic07]

@cgbuen
np

@doublethink
Yes, 6KRO + 8 modifiers.  But I do plan to try for NKRO at some point in the future, so we'll see how that goes.  About using just the left hand side, bpiphany's posted a couple times (I'm pretty sure in this thread) about the possibility of putting the Teensy on the left hand side upside down, and the MCP23018 on the right hand side upside down, so that the left hand side could be used alone that way.  It would also be possible to put a Teensy in an altoid can, with only the I2C pull-up resistors and the TRRS jack wired up, and use that instead of the right hand side, with a normally wired left hand side - wouldn't take up much extra desk space, and could probably be done for ~$20, if one were so inclined.

[bishboria]

Is it possible to leave off the LEDs on the ErgoDox? I don't really want to add them…

If something has to go where the LEDs are meant to, can it be the SMDs?

[bebuxe]

We should really create a wiki page for the ErgoDox, to organize most of the material, and use it to answer most of the FAQ.
Here is index:
http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=Projects#ErgoDox

Here is the page. I am kinda busy, but if I make time, I will update it:
http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=ErgoDox

[ic07]

Is it possible to leave off the LEDs on the ErgoDox? I don't really want to add them…

If something has to go where the LEDs are meant to, can it be the SMDs?

You can leave off the LEDs if you like. Not putting anything in their place should not create a problem.

Just to be clear though: the SMDs (or through hole diodes, if that's what you're using) need to be in their normal positions on those keys regardless of whether or not the LEDs are there. Also, even if one wanted to, there is no place for soldering SMDs in substitution for LEDs.

[Latin00032]

I'm trying to put rubber pads under the ergodox.

Does anyone have any suggestions on the types of pads that can work with this? I don't want the screws grinding into my desk.

[ic07]

@bebuxe: Thanks .  We really do need a wiki, and this is probably a good place for it.  I was going to log in and update just a few small things, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to log in or create an account...

[litster]

ic07, good job on the screw countersink mod!

If you want a clean looking acrylic case, use this cleaner to clean every sheet top and bottom before you put them all together, it will look very nice.  And from there you will just have dust or fingerprints on the very top or bottom of the case.  Just use the cleaner to clean it from time to time.

[ic07]

Thanks!  And for the link too, I'll have to try that when I get home and finish up the nuts on the bottom, and also on my subsequent cases.

[bhh1988]

Just put together my full-hand aluminum. I've been having a lot of trouble of getting the keyboard functional though. My keyboard is not very responsive especially when I type fast. Sometimes it misses keys, and if I just type a bunch of gibberish the letters come out at half the speed that I'm typing (a lot of keypresses are skipped). What could be the problem?

[litster]

If you have already put the case with PCB together, try testing it with just the PCBs without the aluminum case to make sure the metal isn't shorting out the PCBs.