[IC] aluminum ergodox case?

[AKmalamute]

So, after talking with someone from a local company ... and apparently he couldn't read because I'm pretty sure I said  in an email what I wanted and he wrote back asking what I wanted and hasn't written since I replied to that.

Then I did some more searching, and found another company in my town, and got some reasonable information. He didn't work up a quote but said the company typically had a MOQ of $150. He looked just at the keyswitch plate, layer-3 (with switch tool cutouts, of course), and knowing there were ten pieces total to make a keyboard case (that alone is a step above the other company's guy), he estimated that "Five people from your forum, hmm? Yeah that'd be pretty much there" Of course, I think he was guestimating on 1/16" Aluminum for every layer, and I'd like to talk about that in this thread, but...

vague guestimations are for $30/case to add lots of aluminum to your ergodox.

Now, that's cut metal ... no M3 screws, no tapping so you don't need a nut, no feet to add tenting. No GB fee to lubricate the gears of wallethack, no shipping, no PP fees. And currently that's probably 1.5mm-ish all the way through, which would need cork spacers in a few places.

 I'm still excited to say I've made enough headway that I'm comfortable starting an [IC] thread. And I'd love to have an aluminum ergodox, of course.

I told the project manager I'd write back next week (still early January, in case this gets necro'd in a few months  ) with more information about what "we" were looking for.

One thing I'd kinda like to see, is some extra aluminum or steel (I mentioned SS, he kept suggesting aluminum  ) plates. Just the plate, so semi-caseless designs like "swill's minimalist" design could be built.

But I'm at work so I'll just leave this here to percolate until I get some more stuff done and can come back.

[Puddsy]

So that's what, $60 for both hands?

[AKmalamute]

So that's what, $60 for both hands?

No I believe it's $30 plus some stuff, for the case.

[agodinhost]

So that's what, $60 for both hands?

No I believe it's $30 plus some stuff, for the case.

Way too cheap to be true - sorry pal, kinda hard to believe ...

I'm in
 

[JayKthnx]

In on this.

[daerid]

If this is true ($30 for a full set of aluminum plates), I'm in for 2 classic sets and 1 full hand.

[AKmalamute]

Okay by my count, that's up to five cases -- because I'm not, at this time sure Daerid, about full-hand cases, but I will ask.

 Next step is to write to the company contact (tonight or in the morning) and say we have five of those cases I showed him. Currently, I'm thinking I should ask for 1/8th-inch aluminum for everything that isn't the keyswitch plate. I was hoping to have a little discussion about the various layers, but rubbersheetroll (.com I think but I'm not linking that 'til I find what I was looking at) has silicone sheets that could be cut to act as spacers ... also my current assumption, and why I might stick with 1/16th inch all the way through.

Actually, the existing design is supposed to stick out past the PCB so all the screws don't touch it, but would someone like to consider drawing a pair of sandwiching plates? Layers 1 & 3, but not any bigger than the PCB? My drafting skills are seriously lacking so I wouldn't, at this time, want to pay money for something I drew but a two-layer-plus-rubber-pad case sounds both interesting and doable as an extension to this potential GB.

 But then again, if we've got two designs, might as well through in the full-hand case. So a question I'll have, is how much of the projected cost is switching between designs? Might be best to stick with just the one, and maybe have a few extra runs of layers 1 & 3 as they exist now. More when I have it.

[eviltobz]

as you progress from interest check to actual buy you might find a few more people jump in too. i'm interested, but i don't want to commit to it just yet. seeing some examples of the sort of work the place can do might help - as someone else already mentioned, $30 for both hands sounds shockingly cheap, especially considering the quality control issues with massdrop's aluminium case, and iirc that cost a fair bit more than $30. also getting some idea of the weight and what sort of costs international postage would be are important too, as i'm in the u.k. so shipping could dwarf the cost of the case itself. depends on how things turn out

[agodinhost]

count me in for 3 pairs.

[ShriekBob]

Same as Eviltobz.  I'm interested, but am concerned about finish and postage. 

[daerid]

Would love to see a prototype.

[AKmalamute]

Would love to see a prototype.

$150 MOQ, and as I haven't gotten a response to my email yet they may not really like dealing with such small orders despite the manager's willingness to give out his business card. But I will ask when I drive out there at lunch today, if we could get a prototype of at least three layers so I'd have photos to post.

 Or barring that, would it be helpful if I got photos of just anything of that metal, cut with that machine, so you could see edges / finish? I'll ask for that too if the 'prototype' discussion doesn't seem to go anywhere.

[Wildcard]

I know I'd be in for 1 full hand, and probably 2-3 classics.

[JayKthnx]

Guess I should specify if like 1 classic set.

[AKmalamute]

I did go to the shop, the project manager wasn't there, and one of the floor foremen talked to me and said he was involved in a bit of a fire drill From tuesday through half of Thursday, and has been playing catch-up since then. That helps explain why he hasn't replied to my email.

 the foreman left a sticky note on the manager's screen that I had stopped by and asked about the project, but at this point it's obviously going to be some time next week before I hear a reply.

 Also, because I didn't see him, and didn't ask in the email for a quote, I didn't ask about samples of something resembling the work so I'd have photos to share. But I did ask about full-hand, although at that time there was only one person asking.

 I'm still pursuing this, and as always more, when I have it to share.

[dorkvader]

Would it be okay for me to get half of one (so one hand only) ?

If so I'm interested!

If not, I'm still interested and will be building another ergodox soon

[AKmalamute]

Would it be okay for me to get half of one (so one hand only) ?

If so I'm interested!

If not, I'm still interested and will be building another ergodox soon

I can't imagine it would be that complicated. It's not like there'd be any reprogramming, just a different number of those layers.

 I still haven't heard back, but I'll give him a bit more time before pestering him again.

[vivalarevolución]

I probably would be in for a full hand and classic hand.

I would be interested to see the final price.

[effnish]

I'm in for two.

[Wildcard]

Basically I need the raw plates cut. If they're rough afterwards or need to be tapped, I'm good with that. I just don't have the tools and patience to cut all these plates out of metal

[Sniping]

Any word from the shop yet?

[AKmalamute]

Any word from the shop yet?

no, and I've had a busy weekend myself so I haven't had time to drive out and talk to the manager. But maybe Friday, I can do that.

I'm still interested, so I'll keep poking at him 'til he says he's not interested or gives a solid quote.

[AKmalamute]

Alright he looked at some spreadsheets this time, and said it will be even cheaper.

They've recently been taken down by spammer/trojans so no, he had never seen my email but I think we've got a line of communication now.

From looking at his spreadsheet of material costs, his estimates (I said we were up to about ten cases, all in 16gauge metal (1.5mm / 16th-inch, or real close to that)) was that, for 6061 aluminum, it would be about $12 for ten layers. Yes the price went down so I'll make sure I have solid number before we get to the group-buy stage but still. Also, you may notice that ten copies at $12/ea would be below the shop's MOQ. He said he'd be willing to put it through if we're that close.

Stainless steel (not sure if he was thinking 303, 304, 316 ... but surely one of the common ones) would be about the same ... per pound. So, double  the cost.

Lets assume for a moment he was underestimating the size of the pieces and their un-nestability on a single sheet of metal. $15 for aluminum, $30 for SS, plus a GB fee, a PP fee, and shipping.

I've sent him the files for the full-hand case, so he can compare with the 'classic' case. I don't have a specific quote for the "minamalist" case (layers 1 & 3 ... or is that 5 & 3? anyway, plate and base) but at a guess, let's say $6, but that will assume we hit MOQ, in which case it will just be more copies of a particular layer.

 I don't have any pictures, but when I asked for a sample, he showed me a piece going to another customer, who wants to tap 1/4" plate without drilling first. This showed me a couple of things -- one, their laser (if I understood aright, it was their portable laser, at that) can cut cleanly and straight, through 1/4" aluminum, and yes it looked to be to tight enough tolerances it could just be tapped and a bolt screwed in, no problems.

 The sample piece had no scarring, no welts, no discolorations. It was just the bright, dull silverish color of aluminum. I did not, I'll grant you, ask how much time he might have spent polishing the sales piece for a potential customer, but I feel confident from what I've seen, that it's a reputable shop, and the project manager at least takes pride in his work (I lost my lunch hour chatting with him about a carbon-fiber-weaving aircraft-making robot arm that his company supplied parts for, and that he still goes and sees on his trips north to work with that company.

So, ten copies. can we do it?
Form of Counting now available.

No, I've never used Google forms before. Why do you ask?

[Sniping]

I'm 200% down for one, but stainless steel or aluminum? Choices...is one harder/more expensive to anodize than the other?

[tbc]

you can get us pics?

i'm trying to mimic the texture and look of a macbook pro and it's 'built-in' wrist rest.  will this aluminum have a finish that matches it?

[JayKthnx]

You would have to bead blast the aluminum to get that kind of finish.

[AKmalamute]

you can get us pics?

i'm trying to mimic the texture and look of a macbook pro and it's 'built-in' wrist rest.  will this aluminum have a finish that matches it?

 I don't have a camera that would do great justice, but let me tell you what texture / color it looked like: Google images, "machined aluminum" -- two images on the first page of results are of a lego keyfob, and a pair of dice. That's pretty close to what I saw today.

I'm 200% down for one, but stainless steel or aluminum? Choices...is one harder/more expensive to anodize than the other?

SS is much harder, and denser ... and I believe is less anodize-able. The color is definitely different, too, although if you work enough, you can get SS to a mirror finish, whereas I've never seen mirror-finish machined aluminum. If a mirror finish is what you want, you might wander over to MKawa's Ti 60% plate GB ... $75/ea last I heard

[JayKthnx]

you can polish aluminum to a mirror finish if desired. it doesn't take very long to do either since it's a relatively soft metal.

btw. I added myself to the list for an aluminum classic and a steel minimal. if I can, I'd like to change the steel to a classic as well. Thanks!

[CPTBadAss]

1) SS is much harder, and denser ... and I believe is less anodize-able. The color is definitely different, too, although if you work enough, you can get SS to a mirror finish,

2) whereas I've never seen mirror-finish machined aluminum.

3)If a mirror finish is what you want, you might wander over to MKawa's Ti 60% plate GB ... $75/ea last I heard

1) It's not that realistic to anodize stainless steel. It's very difficult and you don't get the range of colors.

2) This exists...they make aluminum mirrors.

3) You know that was just an idle thought from Mkawa? I don't think he's actually going to mirror finish.


Did you include labor in your costs? The costs seem *way* too low.

[AKmalamute]

Did you include labor in your costs? The costs seem *way* too low.

As I said in the OP, these are the numbers I'm hearing from a shop, who presumably are used to including labor in their quotes. Yes, it's possible he's forgetting something and I'll try to get to the bottom of that ... if his email server ever lets me talk to him. There will be further costs in the form of shipping, and me driving to/from the shop but currently, this is what I'm being told it will cost.

Of course if a formal quote doubles the cost because of labor or what have you, sure you'll hear about it before I start a formal GB.

[Halverson]

Do you have any pictures that you sent to the shop? It is always nice to see in pictures what you are asking for.

[CPTBadAss]

Did you include labor in your costs? The costs seem *way* too low.

As I said in the OP, these are the numbers I'm hearing from a shop, who presumably are used to including labor in their quotes. Yes, it's possible he's forgetting something and I'll try to get to the bottom of that ... if his email server ever lets me talk to him. There will be further costs in the form of shipping, and me driving to/from the shop but currently, this is what I'm being told it will cost.

Of course if a formal quote doubles the cost because of labor or what have you, sure you'll hear about it before I start a formal GB.

Just FYI, most shops are charging around $100/hr for their labor costs.

[AKmalamute]

No photos, just the .dxf files, and ostensibly the full-hand .dxf files except he never replied so I think I'm still not getting through to him that way.

[Thechemist]

In for 2 Aluminum Classic, maybe more depending on final price and quality.

[AKmalamute]

So, including myself, and counting SS at "two" cases for cost purposes, we're a little over 8 cases assuming TheChemist just didn't see the form's link on the previous page. If we get up to 12, I'll start a GB thread.

On the bright side, I've received a reply from the project manager, and that means he does have the full-hand .dxf files since some time Friday afternoon.

So, I'll ask for pictures of their work in 16ga aluminum to pass along to you guys, and if his estimate was material only or was he figuring it wouldn't be enough minutes to add labor (he did say his laser machine was very fast -- I forget how many feet per minute but it was way up there.)

Last question is how they expect payment -- it might be that we'll need to run a GB, collect money and pay them to start; I know some places accept half-down but that's more common of contractor work.

 How would you guys feel about being 'billed' twice? once now, to produce the parts, and once in the requisite number of weeks, for shipping once I have the things in hand and can get meaningful estimates for shipping.

USPS? UPS? Fed-Ex? Do we have international interest ( ) that I need to worry about?

[tbc]

does the shop have some other options for finishes?

i would really like bead blasting.

i'm fine with the double payment thing as long as it'll be accurate.  usps to canada please.

[lcs]

I filled the form

Interested in that price, and if agodinhost and I get them, only one shipping pls

[Sniping]

Is it possible to get a sample picture for all the items? That would be very helpful, but not sure how hard that would be for you.

[clickclack123]

This is relevant to my interests. Awaiting pics!

[Anzial]

Joined to say that I'd be interested too. USPS international

[AKmalamute]

Okay, I'll ask -- but since nothing has been done, there's nothing to take pictures of; the cases don't exist yet. Most likely what you can see, is a picture of something else cut in 16ga aluminum -- and the piece on his desk looked like just that, aluminum. With a hole in the middle.

 I have a few thoughts about how this could be handled, but I don't know how his shop or machines work, so my helpful suggestions for prototypes might not work out.

[tbc]

i'm definitely misunderstanding something here.

i read the op again and you mentioned layer; then you also said no screws or bolts?  how does it actually hold together then?

[litster]

Have any of you read about how massdrop's aluminum ergodox case turned out?

[Anzial]

There's no MD ergodox aluminum case, just aluminum top, the rest of the case is acrylic. I read up about it and it seems early versions of the top were rather rough and didn't have any kind of treatment. Currently, they offer anodized aluminum top which seems to be quite nice from the previous drop in Dec 13

[eviltobz]

There's no MD ergodox aluminum case...

...anymore. because the ones they did in the first run turned out so disastrously that they needed some significant metalwork skills by the builder to get em into a usable condition. hence my earlier post that i'm interested, but reticent to jump in.

oh, and there's no-one as knows more about this ere case than litster, dude designed it

[tbc]

so you're saying there WAS a full-metal case at one point?  cause i've only seen and heard of the top plate

[eviltobz]

yup. only for the first massdrop run. they stopped doing it for subsequent runs as it was sooooo problematic. just minor tolerence issues with cutting the layers, but enough that screw holes wouldn't line up well, the inside edges of the case would interfere with the keys and other such things. they needed quite a bit of work to get em sorted, and metal ain't the easiest of things to work with if you need to shave off a couple of mm here or there and you aren't already kitted out with the sort of tools that are needed for such a task.

[tbc]

so why is everything for ergodox always layered?  is this just because of expense?

i think a two piece cnc full hand case would be badass.  not sure how pricing works, but i imagine the design would be really simple and hopefully be cheap for it's size

[lcs]

so why is everything for ergodox always layered?  is this just because of expense?

i think a two piece cnc full hand case would be badass.  not sure how pricing works, but i imagine the design would be really simple and hopefully be cheap for it's size

The problem is the size of the layers. The thickest the layers, the more expensive it is. Maybe too expensive then?

[litster]

Layered cases are easier to design and produce.  2-piece CNC cases would be much better, it would be also much more expensive.  We also don't have anyone with the skills to design it *and* the management skills to bring it to fruition.