Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)

[Melvang]

Does any of the firmware for teensy based projects have the ability to send a different key code based on being tapped or held?  Looking to use the ESC key as function. I want to be able to tap it and it is ESC but if I hold it down it would be Function.

[AKmalamute]

I'm sure this is an obvious answer, but only to those who have physically seen the switches in question.

So, you buy/design/steal a PCB. It was built with the expectation of, probably, cherry MX keyswitches. Matias makes alps clones which some say are nice. Some users swear by Topre mechanical.

 Since you can't tell by staring at the keycap, what actuation is going on underneath, are these switches interchangeable? Can I desolder ALPs keys from an ebay find and put them on my phantom, or ergodox?

 If not, do we all, as a community, assume that PCBs floating around all expect Cherry MX unless expressly stated otherwise?

I guess a second question, related, is "are there MX clones" although matias didn't start, I'm guessing, until ALPS quit. But still ... can I arbitrarily get "generic" mechanical switches that will work with an arbitrary PCB I might be holding in my hand?

[ComradeSniper]

I'm sure this is an obvious answer, but only to those who have physically seen the switches in question.

So, you buy/design/steal a PCB. It was built with the expectation of, probably, cherry MX keyswitches. Matias makes alps clones which some say are nice. Some users swear by Topre mechanical.

 Since you can't tell by staring at the keycap, what actuation is going on underneath, are these switches interchangeable? Can I desolder ALPs keys from an ebay find and put them on my phantom, or ergodox?

 If not, do we all, as a community, assume that PCBs floating around all expect Cherry MX unless expressly stated otherwise?

I guess a second question, related, is "are there MX clones" although matias didn't start, I'm guessing, until ALPS quit. But still ... can I arbitrarily get "generic" mechanical switches that will work with an arbitrary PCB I might be holding in my hand?

Alps switch pins are in different positions than MX switches, so they won't work with an MX PCB.

Topre switches are capacitive so they're an entirely different beast.

[esoomenona]

Further, it is pretty much assumed that MOST PCBs will be MX, being they've been the most popular, unless otherwise described as being something else. But it's also best to know rather than assume.

There are MX clones, but they're pretty much crap, and I don't think you're going to save any money over getting the real deal, especially on some of these classifieds deals.

[CPTBadAss]

1) I'm sure this is an obvious answer, but only to those who have physically seen the switches in question.

2) Since you can't tell by staring at the keycap, what actuation is going on underneath, are these switches interchangeable? Can I desolder ALPs keys from an ebay find and put them on my phantom, or ergodox?

3) If not, do we all, as a community, assume that PCBs floating around all expect Cherry MX unless expressly stated otherwise?

4) I guess a second question, related, is "are there MX clones"

5) although matias didn't start, I'm guessing, until ALPS quit.

6) But still ... can I arbitrarily get "generic" mechanical switches that will work with an arbitrary PCB I might be holding in my hand?

1) Read up and look at: Cherry, Alps, Topre, Buckling Spring.

2) No you can just swap switches in. The PCB, plate, and controller are specifically designed for a certain switch.

3) The PCBs are usually stated as to what they are. 90% of custom PCBs are MX and we're starting to see some Alps. But you can't swap Alps into MX.

4) Yes there are MX clones, check this out

5) Matias took the idea of his switches from Apple AEKs. Think the AEKs were still around when he started the idea. Read up on the Matias switches here

6) There are tons of different mechanical switches. They all mount differently. There's no "generic" switch per se but much of the stuff the forum is into is Cherry MX stuff since its the most popular switch type.

[metalliqaz]

Does any of the firmware for teensy based projects have the ability to send a different key code based on being tapped or held?  Looking to use the ESC key as function. I want to be able to tap it and it is ESC but if I hold it down it would be Function.

This is a great question. I don't know of any firmwares that can configure that in the general case but it should be relatively easy to program into an existing one.  I implemented something similar in my own code for emulating Matias half keyboard.  Tap space and you get space. Hold it down and you access the 'special' layer.

The trick is to hold off sending the key code on the downstroke and use some memory.

Are you using a phantom?  I could whip you up a proof-of-concept

[acer589]

So, I have no idea the point of "stickers" could someone explain them?

[MOZ]

Check the OP.

[Melvang]

Does any of the firmware for teensy based projects have the ability to send a different key code based on being tapped or held?  Looking to use the ESC key as function. I want to be able to tap it and it is ESC but if I hold it down it would be Function.

This is a great question. I don't know of any firmwares that can configure that in the general case but it should be relatively easy to program into an existing one.  I implemented something similar in my own code for emulating Matias half keyboard.  Tap space and you get space. Hold it down and you access the 'special' layer.

The trick is to hold off sending the key code on the downstroke and use some memory.

Are you using a phantom?  I could whip you up a proof-of-concept

Not a phantom but a Teensy 2.0 hardwired matrix of my own layout.  but nothing is built yet see the link in my sig for the process.  It is going to be a TKL with the Function row in a layer on the number row and media keys in the same layer on the navigation block.  The Esc key is going to be in the Tilde position but was hoping to use that key on a hold as the Function key to access said layer.

[AKmalamute]

Alps switch pins are in different positions than MX switches, so they won't work with an MX PCB.

Further, it is pretty much assumed that MOST PCBs will be MX, being they've been the most popular, unless otherwise described as being something else. But it's also best to know rather than assume.

[snipping the rewording of my post into bullet form]

1) Read up and look at: Cherry, Alps, Topre, Buckling Spring.

2) No you can't just swap switches in. The PCB, plate, and controller are specifically designed for a certain switch.

3) The PCBs are usually stated as to what they are. 90% of custom PCBs are MX and we're starting to see some Alps. But you can't swap Alps into MX.

4) Yes there are MX clones, check this out

5) Matias took the idea of his switches from Apple AEKs. Think the AEKs were still around when he started the idea. Read up on the Matias switches here

6) There are tons of different mechanical switches. They all mount differently. There's no "generic" switch per se but much of the stuff the forum is into is Cherry MX stuff since its the most popular switch type.

These have all been so helpful. In particular I didn't know that, about the controller (so, a teensy would need different firmware for a mostly-the-same PCB that was re-wired for Alps, then?)

Any chance I could recommend some condensed form of this, be included in the FAQ/OP? I know I, for one, have spent some fair amount of time trying to tease out such solid answers as whether pin arrangement differed between switch companies.

[CPTBadAss]

1) so, a teensy would need different firmware for a mostly-the-same PCB that was re-wired for Alps, then?

2) Any chance I could recommend some condensed form of this, be included in the FAQ/OP? I know I, for one, have spent some fair amount of time trying to tease out such solid answers as whether pin arrangement differed between switch companies.

1) Think that the firmware is different because of how the Alps and MX switches are scanned in the software? So yes there would be a need for different firmware. The rows and columns? I'm not 100% how firmware works. You can check out the Teensy guide for more info. But I think the common form of Alps and MX are similar enough that a firmware could handle both? There are now PCBs that allow for Alps and MX to be mounted on the same PCB. But that's only two types of switches out of many. For example, check out how many variants of switches the Alps company made.

2) I add things to the OP based on how often questions are asked both here and on the forums. Since I've never seen you particular question asked, I won't be adding it immediately. If I see that question asked more or there is a demand, I will add it later.

Edit: In regards to #1, please check Komar's explanation on a keyboard matrix out. As you can see below, I'm mistaken in my comment but I'm going to leave it up so people can learn with me.

[jdcarpe]

CPT, have you read komar's tech blog yet? If not, you should.

http://blog.komar.be/how-to-make-a-keyboard-the-matrix/

[CPTBadAss]

CPT, have you read komar's tech blog yet? If not, you should.

http://blog.komar.be/how-to-make-a-keyboard-the-matrix/

No I haven't JD. Thanks for the link.

[metalliqaz]

How are the firmware and controller designed for a switch type?  Alps and Cherry are both just momentary contact switches.  Only difference is the footprint.

[CPTBadAss]

How are the firmware and controller designed for a switch type?  Alps and Cherry are both just momentary contact switches.  Only difference is the footprint.

I totally was guessing. I'm not really sure so please feel free to correct me.

[Melvang]

CPT, have you read komar's tech blog yet? If not, you should.

http://blog.komar.be/how-to-make-a-keyboard-the-matrix/

I must say that is an awesome write up at that link and I think I am going to have to bookmark that home page.

[dorkvader]

Does any of the firmware for teensy based projects have the ability to send a different key code based on being tapped or held?  Looking to use the ESC key as function. I want to be able to tap it and it is ESC but if I hold it down it would be Function.

I'm pretty sure TMK_firmware implements this functionality

How are the firmware and controller designed for a switch type?  Alps and Cherry are both just momentary contact switches.  Only difference is the footprint.

I would assume they have different debounce times, but that's more an issue with tuning the firmware.

[goobus]

Is it really necessary to lube ergo clears with 62g springs?

[Jocelyn]

Is it really necessary to lube ergo clears with 62g springs?

Necessary? No, they're not going to stick. Recommended? Absolutely 100%, but I think non lubed linear and tactile switches feel like garbage.

[CPTBadAss]

Is it really necessary to lube ergo clears with 62g springs?

Necessary? No. You don't have to lube any switch really, just more personal preference. Some of the ergo clears I've tried have mods that are sticky and dont rebound correctly. Lube might help that? You can read some ergo-clears threads to see what the general consensus is.

[Photoelectric]

I like unlubed stock Clears on my OH's Ducky Shine very much.  All of the keyboards I've modified have lubed switches, but I like those stock Clears just as much.

[ComradeSniper]

Is it really necessary to lube ergo clears with 62g springs?

They'll stick very badly on the upstroke if you don't. It doesn't affect typing at all but it feels awful.

[Pacifist]

Can someone tell me what a crab bag is and where can I get one?

[lcs]

Can someone tell me what a crab bag is and where can I get one?

A crap bag, I assume

It's a product from SP in which they put leftover caps, caps with defects and things like that. I think they only sell it once a year.

I also think there was someone on the classifieds selling some.

[Pacifist]

Can someone tell me what a crab bag is and where can I get one?

A crap bag, I assume

It's a product from SP in which they put leftover caps, caps with defects and things like that. I think they only sell it once a year.

I also think there was someone on the classifieds selling some.

Sorry, I'm a pretty big newb. What is SP?

[Dubsgalore]

Can someone tell me what a crab bag is and where can I get one?

you can buy them from Signature Plastics, a keycap and plastics company
basically 1000 (?) mixmatched keycaps that are either fine, 1-offs or have something wrong with them

normally you would buy from here, but they are sold out atm
http://keycapsdirect.com/marketplace.php

[rowdy]

Twice a year?  Last one was July this year, previous one was December last year.

Apparently they were called "grab bags" but someone from GH during a site visit referred to them as "crap bags" and the name kinda stuck, even at SP.

They contain a ransom selection of keycaps - no-one has ever reported a complete set.  You might be lucky (usually you are) to find a few rare or sought-after keycaps.  The July catch was Hapsters.

[SpAmRaY]

Twice a year?  Last one was July this year, previous one was December last year.

Apparently they were called "grab bags" but someone from GH during a site visit referred to them as "crap bags" and the name kinda stuck, even at SP.

They contain a ransom selection of keycaps - no-one has ever reported a complete set.  You might be lucky (usually you are) to find a few rare or sought-after keycaps.  The July catch was Hapsters.

I've still got a few thousand to go through so I'll keep hope alive

[rowdy]

Twice a year?  Last one was July this year, previous one was December last year.

Apparently they were called "grab bags" but someone from GH during a site visit referred to them as "crap bags" and the name kinda stuck, even at SP.

They contain a ransom selection of keycaps - no-one has ever reported a complete set.  You might be lucky (usually you are) to find a few rare or sought-after keycaps.  The July catch was Hapsters.

I've still got a few thousand to go through so I'll keep hope alive

I guess if you buy enough bags you might get a full set.

WoB DS probably.

[Pacifist]

How much did each bag cost?

[rowdy]

How much did each bag cost?

$35 this time around IIRC.

[Melvang]

Anyone ever tried installing an RGB led into an MX key?

Edit to add question.  Are SP's legends for double shots row and or cap size specific?  IE can I get Control legend on a tab key without having a custom legend cut?  Or more specifically to what I would love to have done, could I get get 1x legends done on 1.5x caps for double shots again without a special legend cut?

[goobus]

Is it really necessary to lube ergo clears with 62g springs?

They'll stick very badly on the upstroke if you don't. It doesn't affect typing at all but it feels awful.

Yuck. Sounds like I will have to pick up some krytox mixture and victorinox oil!

[CPTBadAss]

1) Anyone ever tried installing an RGB led into an MX key?

2) Are SP's legends for double shots row and or cap size specific?  IE can I get Control legend on a tab key without having a custom legend cut?  Or more specifically to what I would love to have done, could I get get 1x legends done on 1.5x caps for double shots again without a special legend cut?

1) There's a new board out from Ducky, I believe, that has an RGB LED on the CTRL, Shift, and ALT keys.

2) I think they have two piece molding: the second shot would have the cap itself and the profile. The first shot is the legend. So if they already have the mold, you wouldnt have to pay. I'm fairly sure theres a mold for CTRL that fits into tab. But for something like 1x legends on 1.5x keys, I'm not sure that's possible. BLJConsulting or Melissa at SP would know for sure.

[SpAmRaY]

So I know you can search your PM inbox but how do you search PM's that you've sent out??

[AKmalamute]

Anyone ever tried installing an RGB led into an MX key?

I distinctly recall a youtube video demonstrating the assembly of the Ergodox kit, where the (Scandinavian by the accent but I forget who) vlogger modifies the caps lock to accept an LED, which involves a dremel to the keyswitch cover before soldering the LED to board next to the switch in question.

[CPTBadAss]

So I know you can search your PM inbox but how do you search PM's that you've sent out??

I tried my usual search methods: GH PM search, search at the top right of GH, then a Google search "site:<myPMurl> <myoldmessage>" and none of those worked.

[SpAmRaY]

So I know you can search your PM inbox but how do you search PM's that you've sent out??

I tried my usual search methods: GH PM search, search at the top right of GH, then a Google search "site:<myPMurl> <myoldmessage>" and none of those worked.

perhaps we can call it a bug then

[Pacifist]

I think you have to check something when you send the message that sends the pm into your mailbox. Otherwise you can't get it back

[CPTBadAss]

I think you have to check something when you send the message that sends the pm into your mailbox. Otherwise you can't get it back

Even if you save a copy to your Outbox, which I have done, I can't figure out how to search the Outbox.

[Pacifist]

I'm thinking of making a custom numpad, where the -+enter is on the left side and there is a row of macro keys on top and below.

Anybody know how to do this? I'm pretty new to modding

[CPTBadAss]

I'm thinking of making a custom numpad, where the -+enter is on the left side and there is a row of macro keys on top and below.

Anybody know how to do this? I'm pretty new to modding

If you're asking how to make an entire custom numpad, this is definitely not a simple question. Check out the GH10 pad and the Making Stuff Together forum for more info.

If you're asking how to remap a numpad you can buy, such as the Filco one, you can use AutoHotKey.

[Pacifist]

I check out that subforum.

Want to make my own custom pad, been having this theory that I want to try out of gaming with a numpad that can still double as a pad

[Lastpilot]

Why are my white switches so much quieter when I press them with my fingers rather than with keycaps? Is it resonating within the keycap?

[Dubsgalore]

Why are my white switches so much quieter when I press them with my fingers rather than with keycaps? Is it resonating within the keycap?

Pretty sure that's the same with all switches
(from experience)

[Lastpilot]

What is this dark magic?!

[CPTBadAss]

Why are my white switches so much quieter when I press them with my fingers rather than with keycaps? Is it resonating within the keycap?

Your finger is denser than a keycap so the sound waves don't travel as much? I had the same experience as you and dubsgalore. All switches seem like this.

[Lastpilot]

Thanks for that simple answer, CPT! Or should I say....LE twin...

I guess WKL makes me the evil twin....BWAHAHAHAHA.

[CPTBadAss]

As long as you got the Titanium color LE, you can be the evil twin.

[Lastpilot]

Titanium is the best color. That's a simple answer right there.