Author Topic: [IC]Coarse - New IC, link in page  (Read 9768 times)

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Offline seh0nk

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[IC]Coarse - New IC, link in page
« on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 17:58:16 »
Coarse60: Affordable, Leaf-Spring Alice 60%

265235-0


Updates

4/10/2021 - Please check out the IC-2 GH thread! This has all the most up-to-date info you need. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=112218.0;topicseen

3/24/2021 - We have considered all feedback from this IC and have been working hard this past month to get you guys a better keyboard, and have consequently added new renders. The main change is, of course, the slimmer bezels. They are about 50% smaller. We've also decided to add a large chamfer on top and more rounded corners to further decrease the boxiness. Inside, there is more CNC-optimized design as well as a sleek USB port. Also, the two winning colors are navy and black. Thanks to everyone who submitted the form. A new form is out, please fill it if you have time!

2/12/2021 - Renders are now working. Sorry for the trouble. Additionally, I have modified the edges quite a bit, what do you think? Feel free to change your response or submit another one to the IC form

Table of Contents
Introduction
Specifications
Design
NEW Renders
Vendors and Pricing
Frequently Asked Questions
Closing Remarks
Timeline (discord server here)

Introduction



Welcome to the interest check for the Grace! Grace is a unique alice-style keyboard.

IC form link (Super short): https://forms.gle/3Jhzzy7FJJ4HVPm37

Why Coarse?
The rough edges of this keyboard give off a "raw" vibe.

Specifications



Front height: ~20mm

Typing angle: 6.9°

Colors: TBD - influence by filling IC form!

Mounting Style: Top mount with leaf springs (o-rings optional)

PCB/layouts: hot-swap for most positions. Underglow LEDs.

Case Materials: Aluminum Case, acrylic panel

Plate Materials: Aluminum, POM

O-ring materials (optional): nitrile rubber, 2mm thick

Weight: about 1kg or 2.2 pounds



Design

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The Idea
A simple, straightforward design that differs from the typical minimalistic alice. The thicker bezels and flat side profile convey this blocky aesthetic, as well as allow for a beginner-friendly price. Lastly, a vibrant typing experience that delivers premium feel and sound.

Inspirations
As well as what was stated in the introduction, I wanted to make a beginner-friendly aluminum alice. Offerings from TGR and other high-end brands are just not feasible for beginners. Another thing that inspired me was my hate of seams. It is my belief that you should always design for the seam, not around it. This design features a bottom panel to blend the seam in with elegance, avoiding the problem of a tiny seam running the length of the keyboard.

Mounting

265239-2

One of the things I am aiming for in the Grace is a vibrant and bouncy typing experience. This is why I've opted for isolated mounting points with leaf springs. This will allow the plate to flex slightly, and will prevent harsh, hard bottom-outs.

Acoustics
TBD

Renders
Colors: Navy colorway with Cherry BoW Keycaps.
265241-3
265245-4
265247-5

Colors: Black Colorway with PBT blanks and underglow on (set to white, RGB will be avail).
265249-6
265251-7

Colors: Black colorway with DCS Modern Dark (IC coming soon!)
265253-8
265255-9
265257-10

Vendors and Pricing

Pricing
Base Kit (with PCB): <$200
Extra Plates: Depends on material. Aluminum <$30, FR4 <$25

Vendors
Keebsforall (keebsforall.com)
They will cover America and Canada for sure, currently branching out to other countries as well.

How Many Units?
TBD, somewhere around 100.

FAQ

Q: ISO support?
A: no

Q: What's in the box?
A: Case, bottom panel, PCB, plate, screws, feet, (maybe) foam

Q: Open source plate files?
A: not currently, sorry

Q: Lead time?
A: Aiming for 4 months


Closing Remarks

I really hope you consider our keyboard! There are some people that deserve special thanks (hope I'm getting everyone!):

Jerry/Candice at Keebsforall - logistics and nice people

Keyboard Atelier discord - for answering my stupid questions

Friends - support


We have a page in Keebsforall discord server, with updates!: https://discord.gg/vB9P3TuWar

IC form. Again, please fill out, it would mean the world to me!: https://forms.gle/3Jhzzy7FJJ4HVPm37

Thank you!




« Last Edit: Mon, 26 April 2021, 09:46:35 by seh0nk »

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 17:59:29 »
Ne pictures avail
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline bisoromi

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 18:00:00 »
Ne pictures avail
(credits to Kokaloo)

Offline seh0nk

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 18:00:52 »
UPDATE
The name has been changed. Additionally, if you haven't seen yet, the edges are drastically chamfered. I hope you like the changes!
« Last Edit: Tue, 23 February 2021, 21:08:15 by seh0nk »

Offline MIGHTY CHICKEN

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 18:00:59 »
Was your mom a box
« Last Edit: Fri, 12 February 2021, 19:09:47 by MIGHTY CHICKEN »

Offline Kokaloo

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 18:06:00 »
finally they invented alice wedge

Offline powwu

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 18:14:11 »
ne internal pics avail


Offline Chippy

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 18:14:26 »
damn, poor guy didn't even reserve a post. GL with IC though, could be interesting.
This and the swiss cheese keyboard is the next generation of keyboards

Offline ycanales

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 18:40:01 »
damn, poor guy didn't even reserve a post. GL with IC though, could be interesting.

I apologize for the noob question but what is the purpose of reserving an additional post in the thread?

Offline Alessio01

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 18:40:08 »
taking rectangle to a whole level, we're playing checkers, you're playing 5d chess. well played.

Offline firewrath9

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 18:50:01 »
about 48 days early...
(as of feb 12, 2021)

Offline Lysol_

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 18:54:35 »
if this gets made, it's about to be the most annoying Alice to physically pick up. would like to see this get refined further.



Offline chat and team

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 19:09:25 »
bro its a ****ing box

Offline anjo913

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 19:17:44 »
what is engraving on botom

Offline pmdbt

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 19:21:38 »
ID80, Rama M65-A, Black Inks V2

Offline Tree_

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 19:31:55 »
Vendors
America and Canada: Keebsforall (keebsforall.com)
Rest of World: TBD, may not support sorry  :(

Running through an NA vendor called Keebsforall and then saying you may not ship the rest of the world seems kind of ironic.

Offline seh0nk

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 19:34:04 »
bro its a ****ing box

At the end of the day, I want to get an affordable aluminum keyboard to beginners in the hobby. Some aesthetic changes will be made but you must understand that that is the purpose of the keyboard, and the fact that this keyboard does not have crystals growing out of its sides is why it doesn't have to be $500.
« Last Edit: Fri, 12 February 2021, 19:36:58 by seh0nk »

Offline seh0nk

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 19:35:07 »
taking rectangle to a whole level, we're playing checkers, you're playing 5d chess. well played.
That's what makes it affordable for beginners :)

Offline pmdbt

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 19:38:17 »
Vendors
America and Canada: Keebsforall (keebsforall.com)
Rest of World: TBD, may not support sorry  :(

Running through an NA vendor called Keebsforall and then saying you may not ship the rest of the world seems kind of ironic.

We're working on it :) Again, this is all still quite early, but we have contacts in the EU, NA (Canada and US), and we're setting up warehouses in China, so we might be able to serve everyone in the world soon. But you have to start somewhere and since we're based in NA, we started there first. Chances are, by the time IC is done and it goes into GB or just a pre-order, we'll likely be able to support everyone.
ID80, Rama M65-A, Black Inks V2

Offline steebs

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 19:57:59 »
are those spacebars rendered with POM or something?
love the cost idea, not sure how I feel about the boxy-ness

Offline seh0nk

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 20:03:13 »
are those spacebars rendered with POM or something?
love the cost idea, not sure how I feel about the boxy-ness
Hey!
I am already working on a version with more rounded corners to decrease the boxy-ness. I will update soon! Thanks for the feedback on the spacebars as well.

Offline gooddayz

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 20:07:08 »
Was your mom a box

Why so much hate? You can provide a constructive criticism and be more supportive instead of the pointless comment..
« Last Edit: Fri, 12 February 2021, 20:36:59 by gooddayz »

Offline firewrath9

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 20:46:19 »
Was your mom a box

Why so much hate? You can provide a constructive criticism and be more supportive instead of the pointless comment..

i think the only constructive feedback needed for this board, is to not run it :)


Offline seh0nk

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 21:03:39 »
Was your mom a box

Why so much hate? You can provide a constructive criticism and be more supportive instead of the pointless comment..

i think the only constructive feedback needed for this board, is to not run it :)

Thanks for your feedback, but is there anything more specific that can be improved?

Offline Tree_

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 21:24:40 »
Was your mom a box

Why so much hate? You can provide a constructive criticism and be more supportive instead of the pointless comment..

i think the only constructive feedback needed for this board, is to not run it :)

Can't even imagine being so cooked that you bother to post **** like this :)
« Last Edit: Fri, 12 February 2021, 21:29:10 by Tree_ »

Offline niicao

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 21:25:18 »
I understood the design and the aim for it to be affordable but make it less bulky would greatly increase the price?

Offline Alejo1707

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 21:31:54 »
I would use it to build my house

Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk


Offline xef

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 21:38:36 »
not sure why people are dunking on you so hard, kind of ridiculous that there's grown adults acting this way.


i see where your thought process is with this but the general design is pretty unrefined, and Alice clones like the MGA Standard are going for just $200. i think it's worth it to sacrifice some cost and make the design more attractive. the type of person that's looking for an alice layout isn't new to the hobby and is probably willing to drop a little more cash than the average person.

Offline pmdbt

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 21:56:11 »
I understood the design and the aim for it to be affordable but make it less bulky would greatly increase the price?

I think the thought process was that if the case was a very straightforward rectangle with no bevels, engravings, or specially rounded edges, it will be super cheap and easy to CNC making it easier to source manufacturers and easier to do quality control. We'll work with the designer to see what the trade-off is. It's very possible that the design can be refined more without significantly increasing the price.
ID80, Rama M65-A, Black Inks V2

Offline pmdbt

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 22:01:17 »
not sure why people are dunking on you so hard, kind of ridiculous that there's grown adults acting this way.


i see where your thought process is with this but the general design is pretty unrefined, and Alice clones like the MGA Standard are going for just $200. i think it's worth it to sacrifice some cost and make the design more attractive. the type of person that's looking for an alice layout isn't new to the hobby and is probably willing to drop a little more cash than the average person.

That's true, but I think it's also fair to point out that the MGA Standard comes with just the case if I'm not remembering incorrectly. This would be a full kit with the PCB as well. We might even be able to bundle in screw-in stabs with the kit, so $200 for the full kit should make this one of the most affordable metal Alice kits.

But, based on the current feedback so far, I think the designer is already working on a more rounded design :)
ID80, Rama M65-A, Black Inks V2

Offline seh0nk

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 12 February 2021, 23:18:33 »
I understood the design and the aim for it to be affordable but make it less bulky would greatly increase the price?

I think the thought process was that if the case was a very straightforward rectangle with no bevels, engravings, or specially rounded edges, it will be super cheap and easy to CNC making it easier to source manufacturers and easier to do quality control. We'll work with the designer to see what the trade-off is. It's very possible that the design can be refined more without significantly increasing the price.
Adding to this; I am already working on a design with more refined edges - I don't think it will increase the price too much.

UPDATE: I made more beveled edges. Check out the renders!
« Last Edit: Fri, 12 February 2021, 23:57:51 by seh0nk »

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 13 February 2021, 09:04:37 »
Need proto ;)
Diamond polishing tester/service
Badwordposter on Geekhack Interest check
Gateron and Gater Ron are Treeleaf's friends

Disclaimer:
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Offline seh0nk

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #32 on: Sat, 13 February 2021, 10:35:55 »
Need proto ;)
Ordering soon! Also excited by the visit from the legendary treeleaf!

Offline erich8to

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #33 on: Mon, 15 February 2021, 20:30:20 »
I like everything on paper, I would love to see a pink option though. Will definitely consider picking up at this price point.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 15 February 2021, 21:03:53 »
Please remove side supports on plate. Thank you.

Offline yh

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 16 February 2021, 02:11:45 »
It doesnt feel like it has grace... i imagined a sleek keeb to be using that name. Sorry, i guess looking like a metal box doesn’t help with aesthetics much. Hope to see a new design

Offline FishyKeebs

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 19 February 2021, 11:14:53 »
i like it, looks very nice

Offline seh0nk

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #37 on: Tue, 23 February 2021, 21:11:34 »
Please remove side supports on plate. Thank you.
Hi! Those aren't side supports, they are leaf springs. They will give the keyboard a bouncy typing experience. You will be able to see this once the prototype arrives, hopefully within a month or so. Thanks for the question!


i like it, looks very nice
Thanks man! Cheers


It doesnt feel like it has grace... i imagined a sleek keeb to be using that name. Sorry, i guess looking like a metal box doesn’t help with aesthetics much. Hope to see a new design
I couldn't agree with you more; Grace is the name of the person but this keyboard wasn't designed to be curvy and graceful. I have since changed the name. Thanks for your feedback!


I like everything on paper, I would love to see a pink option though. Will definitely consider picking up at this price point.
Hey! Unfortunately pink probably will not be available this round. However with a successful round 1 I can definitely see more colors being offered in the future.


Offline DotMatrix

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Re: [IC]Coarse - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60% - name change
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 23 February 2021, 22:33:00 »
In my opinion, the mounting type isn't really a leaf-spring, but more of sandwich mount with flex cuts. A leaf-spring mount will have actual "leaves" or extensions on the plate that can bend. Here in your design, the exterior parts of the plate will have some flex, but since it's all connected then it's much less bounce then actually having leaves. This isn't to say that the mounting is bad, but it isn't a leaf-spring (to me, in my understanding) and so will feel/behave more differently than what you expect.

Offline Ustinj

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Re: [IC]Coarse - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60% - name change
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 23 February 2021, 22:41:00 »
In my opinion, the mounting type isn't really a leaf-spring, but more of sandwich mount with flex cuts. A leaf-spring mount will have actual "leaves" or extensions on the plate that can bend. Here in your design, the exterior parts of the plate will have some flex, but since it's all connected then it's much less bounce then actually having leaves. This isn't to say that the mounting is bad, but it isn't a leaf-spring (to me, in my understanding) and so will feel/behave more differently than what you expect.

it *could* have some semblance of 'leaf spring' if the plate had no support underneath the edges and the screws were in between the supports that connect to the main plate, but can't really tell if that's the case here from the angles / photos. I only see screws in the four corners interestingly enough.

but if the plate is sandwiched on the edges, then yeah i would agree.

Offline seh0nk

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Re: [IC]Coarse - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60% - name change
« Reply #40 on: Wed, 24 February 2021, 21:33:45 »
In my opinion, the mounting type isn't really a leaf-spring, but more of sandwich mount with flex cuts. A leaf-spring mount will have actual "leaves" or extensions on the plate that can bend. Here in your design, the exterior parts of the plate will have some flex, but since it's all connected then it's much less bounce then actually having leaves. This isn't to say that the mounting is bad, but it isn't a leaf-spring (to me, in my understanding) and so will feel/behave more differently than what you expect.

In my opinion, the mounting type isn't really a leaf-spring, but more of sandwich mount with flex cuts. A leaf-spring mount will have actual "leaves" or extensions on the plate that can bend. Here in your design, the exterior parts of the plate will have some flex, but since it's all connected then it's much less bounce then actually having leaves. This isn't to say that the mounting is bad, but it isn't a leaf-spring (to me, in my understanding) and so will feel/behave more differently than what you expect.

it *could* have some semblance of 'leaf spring' if the plate had no support underneath the edges and the screws were in between the supports that connect to the main plate, but can't really tell if that's the case here from the angles / photos. I only see screws in the four corners interestingly enough.

but if the plate is sandwiched on the edges, then yeah i would agree.

Hey guys! Thanks for the comments, this is a good time to clarify; there is no support under the plate. The only support points of the plate are the screws, while the rest of the plate is able to flex freely. The reason I called this "leaf-spring" is because the mounting holes are far away from the main structure of the plate, only connected by thin strips of the plate - which is the core tenet of leaf-spring mounted plates.



Offline Ott

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Re: [IC]Coarse - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60% - name change
« Reply #41 on: Mon, 15 March 2021, 08:41:35 »
Just found this after literally typing "leaf spring alice", obviously a unique idea as I have found no past/current competition to this. I can't really say I'm a fan of the box design... I'd be more for it if the bezels were less pronounced but right now it looks like a giant block of CNCed aluminum with an alice layout, not super interesting imo. I think if you refined the concept a bit more (add a bit more flair or something to make it stand out) and tightened your scope slightly you'd have a really successful GB! GL w/ IC (Don't know if you're still talking opinions but GL anyways :) )

EDIT: Just read through the IC responses a bit more thoroughly + filled in the form and realized that you addressed the "boxiness" issue. Are you doing anything else aside from rounding the corners?
« Last Edit: Mon, 15 March 2021, 08:44:50 by Ott »

Offline seh0nk

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Re: [IC]Coarse - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60% - name change
« Reply #42 on: Mon, 15 March 2021, 13:08:06 »
Just found this after literally typing "leaf spring alice", obviously a unique idea as I have found no past/current competition to this. I can't really say I'm a fan of the box design... I'd be more for it if the bezels were less pronounced but right now it looks like a giant block of CNCed aluminum with an alice layout, not super interesting imo. I think if you refined the concept a bit more (add a bit more flair or something to make it stand out) and tightened your scope slightly you'd have a really successful GB! GL w/ IC (Don't know if you're still talking opinions but GL anyways :) )

EDIT: Just read through the IC responses a bit more thoroughly + filled in the form and realized that you addressed the "boxiness" issue. Are you doing anything else aside from rounding the corners?

Hey, thanks so much for the feedback! We have already ordered a prototype but there will almost definitely be a second prototype, so your feedback is very helpful. Besides rounding the corners, there is also a very significant chamfer on the top edge, and a line of acrylic on the bottom. I will also look into decreasing the bezel size for the next proto, as I do agree it is very large. Thanks again for your feedback!

Offline prognostics

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I liked the first version, I also like the second version. Will definitely be picking this up.

Offline seh0nk

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I liked the first version, I also like the second version. Will definitely be picking this up.
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Offline cogitoergofemme

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I really appreciate these updates I think they greatly add to the quality of the board.

Edit: I'm not sure I know anything about leaf springs but I feel like the plate could be more leafy. Was this protoed to see what feels best? I'd love to hear about that part of the design process.
« Last Edit: Wed, 24 March 2021, 22:27:10 by cogitoergofemme »


Offline seh0nk

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I really appreciate these updates I think they greatly add to the quality of the board.

Edit: I'm not sure I know anything about leaf springs but I feel like the plate could be more leafy. Was this protoed to see what feels best? I'd love to hear about that part of the design process.

Hey, thanks!

I will order multiple variations of plate to find which one sounds and feels the best.

Offline seh0nk

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Re: [IC]Grace - Affordable, Leaf-Spring, Alice 60%
« Reply #47 on: Thu, 25 March 2021, 02:35:07 »
UPDATE
Design changes! A second IC is in the works.

Offline DJ Clicks

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Possibility of more flex cuts on the plate for flexier/bouncier feel? Like maybe in-between the alphas and/or beside the mods?

Offline terjerber

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This is hype, as a poor boy who has fallen in love with alice style, I hope this comes to fruition, and I hope there's some way you can ship it to New Zealand lol