[GB] SA Symbiosis R2 - Finished

[online]

Can order from zfronter international even if I'm in the UK?
I'm not sure where I'm gonna be after a year (I travel between Asia and Europe due to work), also, the markup on mykeyboard.eu seem high even added a import tax.

I've ordered from zfrontier to the EU before.

And got shipped to you without problem?
if yes, I definitely going to order from zfrontier.

Yes! Shipping was really fast with DHL express too.

Thanks for reply. ordered on zfrontier!

[Fabi]

Hi there,

Just wanted to say, mykeyboard.eu now also lists the caps on their homepage.

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[befbef]

Hi there,

Just wanted to say, mykeyboard.eu now also lists the caps on their homepage.

Oh yes, great prices.
I'll order from zfrontier.

[BobCarltheThird]

Just to clarify, the spacebar kit contains the same keys as the blanks in the 40's kits? Both sets are concave rather then convex?

[hhkbp2]

Hi there,

Just wanted to say, mykeyboard.eu now also lists the caps on their homepage.

It's strange that I couldn't see it visiting mykeyboard.eu.

Just to clarify, the spacebar kit contains the same keys as the blanks in the 40's kits? Both sets are concave rather then convex?

They're different since the Spacekeys kit contains only one key for each size but in two colors, while in 40s kit there are double keys for some size and only in one color. All short spacekeys are concave, because SP doesn't have convex tooling for them. Long spacebars, like 6.25, 7u are convex.

[Elgo]

Hi all, noob here!!!! What combination should I buy for my new Input club Kira keyboard?
Thanks!!!

[portbaron]

Hi all, noob here!!!! What combination should I buy for my new Input club Kira keyboard?
Thanks!!!

Alphas + Modifiers + Numpad + Extension

[Elgo]

Hi all, noob here!!!! What combination should I buy for my new Input club Kira keyboard?
Thanks!!!

Alphas + Modifiers + Numpad + Extension

THX!

[wtoe]

Any ETA on information regarding numbers of current orders vs MOQs?

[BobCarltheThird]

Any ETA on information regarding numbers of current orders vs MOQs?

It doesn't matter. We won't get a pricedrop in exchange for all kits being ran no matter the order numbers.

[Starius]

Any ETA on information regarding numbers of current orders vs MOQs?

It doesn't matter. We won't get a pricedrop in exchange for all kits being ran no matter the order numbers.

Well, this is what they wrote in the latest Kono weekly update:

SA Symbiosis
Open until October 26. The Uniform R3 CADR set was added. Due to sales numbers and higher-than-expected interest on keyboard forums, we've dropped the price of Mods and Cadet keysets. Refunds for existing orders will be issued over the next few days.

[wtoe]

Any ETA on information regarding numbers of current orders vs MOQs?

It doesn't matter. We won't get a pricedrop in exchange for all kits being ran no matter the order numbers.

I just wanna know if certain kits are on track to pass MOQ. Already accepted that prices won't change.

[hhkbp2]

I just wanna know if certain kits are on track to pass MOQ. Already accepted that prices won't change.

Just got a reply from Kono Store, that most kits are doing ok except a few like 40s, colevrak, nordeuk, cadr. And they will check the numbers with other proxies later. Zfrontier will be back in a few days since it's holiday of China National Day now.

[Windeh]

I just wanna know if certain kits are on track to pass MOQ. Already accepted that prices won't change.

Just got a reply from Kono Store, that most kits are doing ok except a few like 40s, colevrak, nordeuk, cadr. And they will check the numbers with other proxies later. Zfrontier will be back in a few days since it's holiday of China National Day now.

Got an extra Alphas kit to go with the 40s. Do let us know if any kits are not going to make MOQ so we can make changes in our other kits.

[hhkbp2]

Got an extra Alphas kit to go with the 40s. Do let us know if any kit is not going to make MOQ so we can make changes in our other kits.

There is still time for the GB. I will make sure you have the time to change your order before the GB ends if any kit fails its MOQ.

[impaktor]

1. I assume people within the EU are reluctant to buy from mykeyboard.eu, given the markup in price, but why does many seem to go with zFrontier instead of buying directly from Kono, when zFrontier is about 5% more expensive than the former?

2. Can one expect zFrontier to ship the product to EU in such a way that customs fees and charges are circumvented, or why else not buy cheaper directly from the source? I do see zFrontier offering free shipping, while Kono looks to charge $18, is this the main reason to choose it?

3. I'm not so sure mykeyboard is that "extra expensive," given the massive extra charge due to customs (+25% +fee for charging you), if ordering from Kono or zFrontier, to a country within the EU.

Please share your thoughts and experiences.

[Fabi]

1. I assume people within the EU are reluctant to buy from mykeyboard.eu, given the markup in price, but why does many seem to go with zFrontier instead of buying directly from Kono, when zFrontier is about 5% more expensive than the former?

2. Can one expect zFrontier to ship the product to EU in such a way that customs fees and charges are circumvented, or why else not buy cheaper directly from the source? I do see zFrontier offering free shipping, while Kono looks to charge $18, is this the main reason to choose it?

3. I'm not so sure mykeyboard is that "extra expensive," given the massive extra charge due to customs (+25% +fee for charging you), if ordering from Kono or zFrontier, to a country within the EU.

Please share your thoughts and experiences.

I live in Germany and I ordered from mykeyboard.eu. Reason is, with my last orders from outside the EU I always had to deal with customs. For me that means approximately 20% taxes plus 2% customs fees (I think up to 30€ you don't have to pay taxes and customs, but I don't know the exact amount). Taxes are on the product price plus transportation fees by the way.
On top you have to pick up your order at the nearest customs office or pay an additional 8€ or so to DHL for taking care of all these things for you.
To be honest, I haven't compared all the prices but for me the time and annoyance saving is worth the extra money.

[befbef]

Next German here: Usually i buy from mykeyboard if possible, but for this GB I'll take zfrontier. It's too much extra from mykeyboard. I haven't payed tax for earlier zfrontier orders. Not sure why, but even with tax it's much cheaper.

[William_S_Jones]

Nice set, I may join!


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[impaktor]

Next German here: Usually i buy from mykeyboard if possible, but for this GB I'll take zfrontier. It's too much extra from mykeyboard. I haven't payed tax for earlier zfrontier orders. Not sure why, but even with tax it's much cheaper.

But why then zFrontier when kono is even cheaper? Is it just because you're hoping the probability of getting screwed by customs is lower from zFrontier?

[Nigolski]

Next German here: Usually i buy from mykeyboard if possible, but for this GB I'll take zfrontier. It's too much extra from mykeyboard. I haven't payed tax for earlier zfrontier orders. Not sure why, but even with tax it's much cheaper.

But why then zFrontier when kono is even cheaper? Is it just because you're hoping the probability of getting screwed by customs is lower from zFrontier?

yeah

[mimalik]

Will it be possible to get some break down of to date orders placed?

[otanishock]

Next German here: Usually i buy from mykeyboard if possible, but for this GB I'll take zfrontier. It's too much extra from mykeyboard. I haven't payed tax for earlier zfrontier orders. Not sure why, but even with tax it's much cheaper.

But why then zFrontier when kono is even cheaper? Is it just because you're hoping the probability of getting screwed by customs is lower from zFrontier?

yeah

OP already stated that there won't be MOQ discounts so hmm I don't see how that might be necessary?

[hhkbp2]

Will it be possible to get some break down of to date orders placed?

We're not doing price drops for this GB.

I talked to Kono about the MOQs. For now most kits are doing ok to happen. The numbers on 40s, Ergodox, CADR, NordeUK are a bit low, but there's still time. We will make sure buyers have time to adjust their order if any kit fails MOQ.

[Windeh]

Will it be possible to get some break down of to date orders placed?

We're not doing price drops for this GB.

I talked to Kono about the MOQs. For now most kits are doing ok to happen. The numbers on 40s, Ergodox, CADR, NordeUK are a bit low, but there's still time. We will make sure buyers have time to adjust their order if any kit fails MOQ.

Sounds good. Appreciate your work on this set!

[vodan]

Will it be possible to get some break down of to date orders placed?

We're not doing price drops for this GB.

I talked to Kono about the MOQs. For now most kits are doing ok to happen. The numbers on 40s, Ergodox, CADR, NordeUK are a bit low, but there's still time. We will make sure buyers have time to adjust their order if any kit fails MOQ.

Thank you for checking! I wish I could pay more just so the ergodox set gets made...

[equalunique]

Just purchased an ErgoDox kit myself. I really hope that kit comes to fruition!

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[BobCarltheThird]

Will it be possible to get some break down of to date orders placed?

We're not doing price drops for this GB.

I talked to Kono about the MOQs. For now most kits are doing ok to happen. The numbers on 40s, Ergodox, CADR, NordeUK are a bit low, but there's still time. We will make sure buyers have time to adjust their order if any kit fails MOQ.

Thank you for checking! I wish I could pay more just so the ergodox set gets made...

I mean you could buy more then one kit...

[wtoe]

Just got a newsletter email from Kono about their weekly update but the Symbiosis section hasn't changed.

[bdkrzy]

Hi hhkp. I am really interested in picking up the spacebar kit but the prices seem a little bit on the higher end on that particular kit. Was just wondering if there is any chance of bumping it down? Thanks!

[vodan]

Will it be possible to get some break down of to date orders placed?

We're not doing price drops for this GB.

I talked to Kono about the MOQs. For now most kits are doing ok to happen. The numbers on 40s, Ergodox, CADR, NordeUK are a bit low, but there's still time. We will make sure buyers have time to adjust their order if any kit fails MOQ.

Thank you for checking! I wish I could pay more just so the ergodox set gets made...

I mean you could buy more then one kit...

may not be the worst idea. let me think about that...

[hhkbp2]

Hi hhkp. I am really interested in picking up the spacebar kit but the prices seem a little bit on the higher end on that particular kit. Was just wondering if there is any chance of bumping it down? Thanks!

I'm afraid these are the prices for now. Not sure how the sale will go when the GB ends in two weeks later. It will not make much difference on the price of spacebars kits even if the sold numbers go far beyond current ones and all vendors/proxies decides to take them to the next MOQ prices. It would be just 2 dollars or so. I suggest buying it right now, or not, as you like.

[t8c]

Ordered NORDE, cadet and numpad!

[impaktor]

Ordered NORDE, cadet and numpad!

As a fellow countryman, might I ask you if you used zFrontier or Kono or mykeyboard? The last option seem crazy expensive, as one will be paying custom fees twice (US -> EU, EU -> NO)

[Lisinge]

Ordered NORDE, cadet and numpad!

As a fellow countryman, might I ask you if you used zFrontier or Kono or mykeyboard? The last option seem crazy expensive, as one will be paying custom fees twice (US -> EU, EU -> NO)

SWE here, i ordered through zfrontier. It's simply too much of a markup on mykeyboard to justify it. I would def do the same if i were you.

[Jkush463]

jumped in for 7 kits man that hurt but great set so whatever. 

[hhkbp2]

jumped in for 7 kits man that hurt but great set so whatever.

Thanks for your support! I understand the prices might be not ideal and there are so many other great keyset GBs running/coming, which divides the audience far more than before. The support from everyone of you is important to this GB.

[Hamel]

Just joined the GB via zFrontier, my favorite set since SA Oblivion.

[Troif]

When this GB ends?


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[M]

When this GB ends?


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October 26

[impaktor]

Thanks for your support! I understand the prices might be not ideal and there are so many other great keyset running/coming

None more worthy to a true Emacs warrior!

I'm also going to go (for me) very heavy into this GB, as I'll definitely buy both the CADR and Alpha-set + a number of the modifier sets (no space bars though, I'm a Kinesis/dactyl-user), as soon as I figure out which of the modifiers I want/need.

To me, this is the "rest of my life" keycap set to get. The only one that could rival it, is yet another Symbolics/Symbiosis run (e.g. maybe dyesub PBT, greek letters on front?).

SWE here, i ordered through zfrontier. It's simply too much of a markup on mykeyboard to justify it. I would def do the same if i were you.

But zFrontier also mark up the price from Kono, and both are outside EU, but you're hoping your package will more probably "slip through" customs, in the ever growing tide of packages from China, compared to if you buy from Kono directly? Or is it the free shipping option that favors zFronter over Kono?

[Lisinge]

SWE here, i ordered through zfrontier. It's simply too much of a markup on mykeyboard to justify it. I would def do the same if i were you.

But zFrontier also mark up the price from Kono, and both are outside EU, but you're hoping your package will more probably "slip through" customs, in the ever growing tide of packages from China, compared to if you buy from Kono directly? Or is it the free shipping option that favors zFronter over Kono?
[/quote]

It's like a difference of a couble of bucks per kit. That doesn't bother me that much lol.

Reply to your order confirmation and ask them to mark the parcel down. I've ordered from them before and they marked it down and it slipped through customs.
Even if they don't mark down, the price incl. taxes is still cheaper than from mykeyboard.

[enrique.aliaga]

@hhkbp2 I’m curious... Why was the idea of having front-facing Greek legends like the original Space Cadet dropped? Is it not technically doable? Or is too expensive? Or is there any other reason?

Could front-legends make an appearance on a theoretical Symbiosis R3?


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[equalunique]

@hhkbp2 I’m curious... Why was the idea of having front-facing Greek legends like the original Space Cadet dropped? Is it not technically doable? Or is too expensive? Or is there any other reason?

Could front-legends make an appearance on a theoretical Symbiosis R3?


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I would definitely be in for R3 if front-facing legends are part of it.

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[befbef]

@hhkbp2:
Is there a chance you will run a symbiosis in another color anytime?
Not that i wouldn't like the colors (already ordered this), but since the molds are available wouldn't it be relatively easy to rerun this with other colors?

[hhkbp2]

@hhkbp2 I’m curious... Why was the idea of having front-facing Greek legends like the original Space Cadet dropped? Is it not technically doable? Or is too expensive? Or is there any other reason?

Could front-legends make an appearance on a theoretical Symbiosis R3?


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I would definitely be in for R3 if front-facing legends are part of it.

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I explained it in the IC page before. It's doable from technical point of view. The idea of front-printing Geek legends was dropped because 1. it requires more work from SP and it would lead to higher price, and we don't have enough interest in the keyset. Without a big amount of buyers, it would be too expensive adding fronting printing. 2. The Geek letters on the Space-Cadet keyboard are in free hand-written style. It's not neat or unified like the APL legends. I draw a few sketches for the Geek legends and found they didn't look as nice as I thought. The PETSCII legends on SA Retro are unified and look nice.

I have no idea why you mentioned it to add front-printing to the flat version. Not a lot of people like all R3 version nowadays. And the price of a keyset kit depends on its sold number in significant measure. Given the fact that the sold number of CADR is struggling with MOQ for now. It's not practical to add front-printing legends to it and then price is raised more.

[enrique.aliaga]

I have no idea why you mentioned it to add front-printing to the flat version. Not a lot of people like all R3 version nowadays. And the price of a keyset kit depends on its sold number in significant measure. Given the fact that the sold number of CADR is struggling with MOQ for now. It's not practical to add front-printing legends to it and then price is raised more.

Sorry if R3 was ambiguous. I was referring to “Round 3”, not Row 3.

Thanks for the rest of your explanation. It makes perfect sense. I just wish we could get front-legends on a next round of this Color Scheme.


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[hhkbp2]

Sorry if R3 was ambiguous. I was referring to “Round 3”, not Row 3.

Thanks for the rest of your explanation. It makes perfect sense. I just wish we could get front-legends on a next round of this Color Scheme.


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Oh. Round 3. I have no plan for it now.

[hhkbp2]

@hhkbp2:
Is there a chance you will run a symbiosis in another color anytime?
Not that i wouldn't like the colors (already ordered this), but since the molds are available wouldn't it be relatively easy to rerun this with other colors?

Sorry I don't have any further plan now. I know there are other color themes in other Lisp Machine/Symbolics keyboards, like all white on blue in SAIL keyboard, white on gray/black in Symbolics 3600 keyboards, etc. But the Space-Cadet cream/gray/blue theme is the crown jewel, so it's what we mainly have in this design/GB.

As for rerun in the future, I guess it would be several years later even if it would happen in the end. To run a GB with vendors, usually there is some kind of agreement between the designer and vendors that prohibits the rerun very soon in order to preserve the GB's sale. Since I just asked the permission from xblackdog to run this Round 2, I'm not sure whether I'm the one to run Round 3, even though I will rebuild the legends(molds) in this Round 2. So it's too faraway for me to talk about Round 3 in the future. And prior to a keyset GB, there is usually an IC which takes months or even years. It's not that easy like anytime.

[Starius]

I ordered Alphas, Modifiers, Numpad, Blue Choices, Gray Choices, Blue Spacebars, Cadet, and Extension kits.
Ouch, that's a pricey meatball!   But, I don't think many would disagree that this is going to be one classy set. 

And though I'm getting more keys than I need to do so, I'm really looking forward to trying this set out on my future S7 Elephant keyboard.