Author Topic: [IC] Poker/GH60 plate/case combo (Read 34355 times)

The_Beast · « **on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 14:40:03 »

Nice looking, function over form kinda case. Fill out the form and let me know!

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Bdri-LeYy_Dm2pHjWdvdh5qB9k-0klwVWXx90mYDhbo/viewform

Bending would be done by my laser guy, ApocalypseMaow's friend, or if all else fails, maybe samwisekoi.

Photos via samwisekoi:

jdcarpe · « **Reply #1 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 14:57:58 »

I'm in for a couple

Kayliss · « **Reply #2 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 15:04:32 »

Nice in for 2 atleast, maybe another depending on the price.

esoomenona · « **Reply #3 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 15:20:09 »

Would possibly consider running some of these in the ~~more popular~~ GH60 plates? Who knows when some of us will be able to get cases for them...

LechnerDE · « **Reply #4 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 15:24:05 »

This looks interesting!

Do you have a rough estimate for the final pricing?

jdcarpe · « **Reply #5 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 15:24:29 »

Quote from: esoomenona on Fri, 10 May 2013, 15:20:09

Would possibly consider running some of these in the ~~more popular~~ GH60 plates? Who knows when some of us will be able to get cases for them...

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing, moose-bro. I can alter drawings if needed.

The_Beast · « **Reply #6 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 15:25:10 »

Quote from: jdcarpe on Fri, 10 May 2013, 15:24:29

Quote from: esoomenona on Fri, 10 May 2013, 15:20:09
Would possibly consider running some of these in the ~~more popular~~ GH60 plates? Who knows when some of us will be able to get cases for them...

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing, moose-bro. I can alter drawings if needed.

I don't see why not. GH60 and the poker should have the same sized PCB and USB placement

esoomenona · « **Reply #7 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 15:43:40 »

Should we have a vote to see which of the layouts might get the most purchases? Or would ordering just one be feasible? I have a feeling one order might be more expensive, and the plate I want to run I don't imagine many others wanting (not saying it's not possible). It's the ISO with short right shift. Though I suppose I would accept the ANSI with short right shift, if it got more orders.

JPG · « **Reply #8 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 15:49:35 »

Any possibility for a GH65 layout? (samwisekoi style from gh60++)

Any very rough estimate for shipping to Canada?

The_Beast · « **Reply #9 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:00:32 »

Quote from: esoomenona on Fri, 10 May 2013, 15:43:40

Should we have a vote to see which of the layouts might get the most purchases? Or would ordering just one be feasible? I have a feeling one order might be more expensive, and the plate I want to run I don't imagine many others wanting (not saying it's not possible). It's the ISO with short right shift. Though I suppose I would accept the ANSI with short right shift, if it got more orders.

I could handle it on a case by case basis. By the way, these will be a for-profit GB, since I don't really need/want one of these cases (serves as incentive for me), I could use the money and because even with my earnings, it still tends to be cheaper than going off and doing it yourself.

Quote from: JPG on Fri, 10 May 2013, 15:49:35

Any possibility for a GH65 layout? (samwisekoi style from gh60++)

Any very rough estimate for shipping to Canada?

Maybe, first class would be around $12 if memory serves me right. Priority would be around $17 if memory.....

The_Beast · « **Reply #10 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:10:04 »

By the way, what kinda time frame do you guys want? When should it start and end?

I'm pretty much open this entire summer to run things.....

jdcarpe · « **Reply #11 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:10:45 »

I'm in no big hurry

WhiteFireDragon · « **Reply #12 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:25:47 »

Poker and Universal ANSI plate were the most popular ones in the GH60 GB. Since this plate is the case itself, you won't even need those 6 extra screw holes.

boost · « **Reply #13 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:27:13 »

Form filled out!

I like the idea of this and it would be hard to mod into a lubing station

Dubsgalore · « **Reply #14 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:28:41 »

i like this

1.5x mod plate/case please! i would get one def

nubbinator · « **Reply #15 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:33:21 »

Cool idea and it would a great frame to build off of if someone wanted to make their own homebrew case.

realex · « **Reply #16 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:45:25 »

interested! can you share outer measurements of the plate in order to CAD some kind of base for it?

esoomenona · « **Reply #17 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:50:40 »

Oh, also, how about possibly making the whole thing wrap around? Do you think that would increase the cost drastically?

The_Beast · « **Reply #18 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:52:04 »

Quote from: esoomenona on Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:50:40

Oh, also, how about possibly making the whole thing wrap around? Do you think that would increase the cost drastically?

How would you bend it? How would you solder the switches?

Quote from: boost on Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:27:13

Form filled out!

I like the idea of this and it would be hard to mod into a lubing station

Already have a lube station planned

Quote from: realex on Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:45:25

interested! can you share outer measurements of the plate in order to CAD some kind of base for it?

Yes

esoomenona · « **Reply #19 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:55:12 »

Quote from: The_Beast on Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:52:04

Quote from: esoomenona on Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:50:40
Oh, also, how about possibly making the whole thing wrap around? Do you think that would increase the cost drastically?

How would you bend it? How would you solder the switches?

Asking the tough questions, eh?

nubbinator · « **Reply #20 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:57:47 »

Quote from: The_Beast on Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:52:04

Quote from: esoomenona on Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:50:40
Oh, also, how about possibly making the whole thing wrap around? Do you think that would increase the cost drastically?

How would you bend it? How would you solder the switches?

The_Beast · « **Reply #21 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:57:53 »

Quote from: esoomenona on Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:55:12

Quote from: The_Beast on Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:52:04
Quote from: esoomenona on Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:50:40
Oh, also, how about possibly making the whole thing wrap around? Do you think that would increase the cost drastically?

How would you bend it? How would you solder the switches?

Asking the tough questions, eh?

Canadian eh?

SmallFry · « **Reply #22 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 17:34:31 »

Do these fit inside of current Poker cases, incase I wanted to add another support to my case etc?

Jocelyn · « **Reply #23 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 17:38:48 »

Quote from: SmallFry on Fri, 10 May 2013, 17:34:31

Do these fit inside of current Poker cases, incase I wanted to add another support to my case etc?

I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt it lol

esoomenona · « **Reply #24 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 17:40:07 »

From the look of it, it looks like it might be able to sit in the case. But that's all it's going to do.

Photekq · « **Reply #25 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 18:12:49 »

Would buy a winkeyless ansi.

SmallFry · « **Reply #26 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 18:29:02 »

Quote from: esoomenona on Fri, 10 May 2013, 17:40:07

From the look of it, it looks like it might be able to sit in the case. But that's all it's going to do.

Hm, if one were to remove some of the standoff part, you could improve the plastic poker case feel significantly more than just a plated poker.

Dubsgalore · « **Reply #27 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 18:30:00 »

Quote from: Photekq on Fri, 10 May 2013, 18:12:49

Would buy a winkeyless ansi.

i would as well
in addition to a ansi 1.5x mods

nubbinator · « **Reply #28 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 18:36:49 »

The more I look at this, the more ideas I get for it too. This would be perfect for someone wanting to play around with direct wiring instead of a PCB.

JPG · « **Reply #29 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 19:12:53 »

I would suggest adding options for size to the form (60%,65%,75%).

Turbo Slaab · « **Reply #30 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 19:19:40 »

Oh yeah!!!! These are boss. How much extra to cut the poker suits in the back as well? Also, I just want to make sure, these have the same rake as the stock poker case?

ApocalypseMaow · « **Reply #31 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 19:52:41 »

I hope to have some friends of mine do all the metal work at their shop, if that's not possible then I'll be calling fab shops Monday.
Keep your fingers crossed.

jdcarpe · « **Reply #32 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 20:09:37 »

Quote from: JPG on Fri, 10 May 2013, 19:12:53

I would suggest adding options for size to the form (60%,65%,75%).

I certainly don't mind drawing those up, if The_Beast wants to add them. Just know that there won't be any PCB underneath, and you'll have to use the direct wiring method with a Teensy to actually use it.

JPG · « **Reply #33 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 20:17:32 »

Quote from: jdcarpe on Fri, 10 May 2013, 20:09:37

Quote from: JPG on Fri, 10 May 2013, 19:12:53
I would suggest adding options for size to the form (60%,65%,75%).

I certainly don't mind drawing those up, if The_Beast wants to add them. Just know that there won't be any PCB underneath, and you'll have to use the direct wiring method with a Teensy to actually use it.

I know, yet even if the GH60 was very tempting, my "dream" layout would be a 65%. So I want to give it a try. Also, it would probably be a project on the "long term" anyway, so it would be ok anyway. Also, other people might be interested (like the interest shown in the metaliqaz 75% epsilon. And in samewisekoi GH60++ thread he was talking about a "cuttable" pcb. Nothing concrete now but an interesting project indeed

Photekq · « **Reply #34 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 20:32:44 »

EDIT : I'm a blind idiot.

The_Beast · « **Reply #35 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 20:35:58 »

Quote from: Photekq on Fri, 10 May 2013, 20:32:44

Have you considered giving it a slope? Since it has no base it'd be real hard to add feet. In order to do this design you'd have to add about 4mm to the back so that the pcb doesn't collide with the rear face.

Something like this :

(Attachment Link)

It is sloped, check the last picture in the first post

Photekq · « **Reply #36 on:** Fri, 10 May 2013, 20:36:41 »

Quote from: The_Beast on Fri, 10 May 2013, 20:35:58

Quote from: Photekq on Fri, 10 May 2013, 20:32:44
Have you considered giving it a slope? Since it has no base it'd be real hard to add feet. In order to do this design you'd have to add about 4mm to the back so that the pcb doesn't collide with the rear face.

Something like this :

(Attachment Link)

It is sloped, check the last picture in the first post

My bad. Don't know how the hell I missed that.

tjweir · « **Reply #37 on:** Sat, 11 May 2013, 18:52:22 »

If these can fit the "samwisekoi" GH60, then I'm in for 2.

TheQsanity · « **Reply #38 on:** Sat, 11 May 2013, 19:00:43 »

I will be up for one or two for my GH60.

Sifo · « **Reply #39 on:** Sat, 11 May 2013, 19:04:39 »

Whoah that's a really cool design... now I wish I had a pcb to use with this.

The_Beast · « **Reply #40 on:** Sat, 11 May 2013, 19:08:03 »

Quote from: Sifo on Sat, 11 May 2013, 19:04:39

Whoah that's a really cool design... now I wish I had a pcb to use with this.

You don't even need a PCB. You can direct wire and skip it!

TheFlyingRaccoon · « **Reply #41 on:** Sat, 11 May 2013, 22:33:55 »

Definitely in for one. Love the design.

Jmneuv · « **Reply #42 on:** Sun, 12 May 2013, 09:39:12 »

Super idea. I'd need it in pure layout though.

amzee · « **Reply #43 on:** Sun, 12 May 2013, 16:40:23 »

Quote from: Jmneuv on Sun, 12 May 2013, 09:39:12

Super idea. I'd need it in pure layout though.

I would definitely like a pure version as well.

sth · « **Reply #44 on:** Sun, 12 May 2013, 16:45:09 »

i saw a prototype of this at samwisekoi's and i really liked it but forgot to ask about it.

the only thing i think should be changed about the basic design is that the 'bottom' edges should be rolled up into the case. I think it would look a lot cleaner than the straight metal edge and it would provide a bit more room to apply some sort of rubber to stop it from slipping. if it's not clear what i mean, imagine looking at the side of the case. the front edge would roll up like the letter J and rest on the rounded part. the back would be inverted like a backwards J in the same way.

anyways form filled, i'd love one of these in either gh60-hhk or winkeyless ANSI (would prefer without 1x between ctrl and alt but if that's not available i'd take what i can get).

sth · « **Reply #45 on:** Sun, 12 May 2013, 16:48:01 »

AHH! you know what else I just realized would be ****in awesome for this? A set of front/back rails for support and then interchangeable plates similar to the KMAC plate. not sure if that would end up costing more or less but it would be pretty cool to have the option to swap boards in the same case.

RickyJ · « **Reply #46 on:** Sun, 12 May 2013, 16:53:44 »

Good case idea! I could totally tack some sides onto the plate I ordered to make a cheap case, and remove the sides if/when I get a proper case.

BunnyLake · « **Reply #47 on:** Sun, 12 May 2013, 17:20:21 »

id take a couple

Photekq · « **Reply #48 on:** Sun, 12 May 2013, 17:23:25 »

Quote from: RickyJ on Sun, 12 May 2013, 16:53:44

Good case idea! I could totally tack some sides onto the plate I ordered to make a cheap case, and remove the sides if/when I get a proper case.

This IC isn't for sides that you put on the GH60 plate. This is basically a plate that is bent around to form feet. You wouldn't use the plate you purchased from the GH60 GB.

Leslieann · « **Reply #49 on:** Sun, 12 May 2013, 17:25:29 »

I want one (uni ansi).

The_Beast, check auto parts places for door edge guards/trim/molding. It comes in multiple colors and cost about $10-$20 for enough to do several of these and would place a nice colored, rubber trim along the bottom to protect peoples desks.

Like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHRYSLER-CHROME-DOOR-EDGE-GUARD-TRIM-ALL-MODELS-/140972628068?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20d29f9864&vxp=mtr

or this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Door-Edge-Guard-Molding-Quarter-inch-by-25-foot-BLACK-min-packaging-/161021454015?hash=item257da066bf&vxp=mtr

domoaligato · « **Reply #50 on:** Sun, 12 May 2013, 17:28:21 »

Gh60 universal ANSI here

amzee · « **Reply #51 on:** Sun, 12 May 2013, 17:43:10 »

Also would be interested in this plate style, without the cutouts for the 1x1 winkey:

RickyJ · « **Reply #52 on:** Sun, 12 May 2013, 20:46:39 »

Quote from: Photekq on Sun, 12 May 2013, 17:23:25

Quote from: RickyJ on Sun, 12 May 2013, 16:53:44
Good case idea! I could totally tack some sides onto the plate I ordered to make a cheap case, and remove the sides if/when I get a proper case.
This IC isn't for sides that you put on the GH60 plate. This is basically a plate that is bent around to form feet. You wouldn't use the plate you purchased from the GH60 GB.

Oh I know, I was just saying I could do it to save spending more money (takes away from cap sets).

TheQsanity · « **Reply #53 on:** Sun, 12 May 2013, 20:54:58 »

There are no HHKB cases! We should totally do that!

samwisekoi · « **Reply #54 on:** Sun, 12 May 2013, 21:45:02 »

Quote from: Jocelyn on Fri, 10 May 2013, 17:38:48

Quote from: SmallFry on Fri, 10 May 2013, 17:34:31
Do these fit inside of current Poker cases, incase I wanted to add another support to my case etc?

I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt it lol

Nope. Not a chance.

- Ron I samwisekoi

esoomenona · « **Reply #55 on:** Mon, 13 May 2013, 09:43:57 »

Quote from: Turbo Slaab on Fri, 10 May 2013, 19:19:40

Oh yeah!!!! These are boss. How much extra to cut the poker suits in the back as well? Also, I just want to make sure, these have the same rake as the stock poker case?

You mean cutouts with the GH60 logo?

SmallFry · « **Reply #56 on:** Mon, 13 May 2013, 09:49:27 »

Quote from: samwisekoi on Sun, 12 May 2013, 21:45:02

Quote from: Jocelyn on Fri, 10 May 2013, 17:38:48
Quote from: SmallFry on Fri, 10 May 2013, 17:34:31
Do these fit inside of current Poker cases, incase I wanted to add another support to my case etc?

I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt it lol

Nope. Not a chance.

- Ron I samwisekoi

Bah, oh well.

Binge · « **Reply #57 on:** Mon, 13 May 2013, 10:13:52 »

Quote from: sth on Sun, 12 May 2013, 16:48:01

AHH! you know what else I just realized would be ****in awesome for this? A set of front/back rails for support and then interchangeable plates similar to the KMAC plate. not sure if that would end up costing more or less but it would be pretty cool to have the option to swap boards in the same case.

IRC spoke about this at one point... your idea is better I think, but you have no idea how much I wanted something like this avail.

mashby · « **Reply #58 on:** Mon, 13 May 2013, 10:34:31 »

Form filled. I'd be interested in two of them, depending on price.

marin · « **Reply #59 on:** Mon, 13 May 2013, 12:23:29 »

sorry if this is a stupid question but I'm new and I don't understand everything around here yet, will this be "compatible" with the Poker 2 ?

Thanks

mashby · « **Reply #60 on:** Mon, 13 May 2013, 15:26:21 »

Quote from: marin on Mon, 13 May 2013, 12:23:29

sorry if this is a stupid question but I'm new and I don't understand everything around here yet, will this be "compatible" with the Poker 2 ?

Thanks

It should be, but I don't know of anyone that has gotten their hands on one to be sure.

marin · « **Reply #61 on:** Mon, 13 May 2013, 16:58:36 »

Quote from: mashby on Mon, 13 May 2013, 15:26:21

Quote from: marin on Mon, 13 May 2013, 12:23:29
sorry if this is a stupid question but I'm new and I don't understand everything around here yet, will this be "compatible" with the Poker 2 ?

Thanks

It should be, but I don't know of anyone that has gotten their hands on one to be sure.

Thank you! I hope it works, I just bought a Poker 2 and can't wait to customize!

mashby · « **Reply #62 on:** Mon, 13 May 2013, 17:14:24 »

I guess we will know soon because it looks like MK.com will have them the week of May 17th.

Here's a direct link to a Poker 2 with MX-Blues.

ApocalypseMaow · « **Reply #63 on:** Mon, 13 May 2013, 19:31:21 »

I don't see why we couldn't do all the plates from the GH60 buy, BUT! know that the less popular ones will cost more. ROGER THAT?!?!
Binge I really like that idea as well. Maybe an acrylic horseshoe shape with stainless plate that slides in...
Anyway back on topic. We have some price quotes but still shopping around. I'm sure Beast will let you know as soon as we get something
nailed down.

iAmAhab · « **Reply #64 on:** Tue, 14 May 2013, 07:55:38 »

Would definitely be down for one if ISO with 1.25x modifiers(ISO poker?) is available.

Turbo Slaab · « **Reply #65 on:** Sat, 18 May 2013, 17:18:40 »

Quote from: esoomenona on Mon, 13 May 2013, 09:43:57

Quote from: Turbo Slaab on Fri, 10 May 2013, 19:19:40
Oh yeah!!!! These are boss. How much extra to cut the poker suits in the back as well? Also, I just want to make sure, these have the same rake as the stock poker case?

You mean cutouts with the GH60 logo?

No! But I suppose you could include those too

Winther · « **Reply #66 on:** Wed, 29 May 2013, 11:32:38 »

Sorry if this has already been asked.. Any chance of a ISO layout? then I would be in for a couple I think. (depending on price ofcourse..)

The_Beast · « **Reply #67 on:** Wed, 29 May 2013, 18:21:52 »

Quote from: Winther on Wed, 29 May 2013, 11:32:38

Sorry if this has already been asked.. Any chance of a ISO layout? then I would be in for a couple I think. (depending on price ofcourse..)

I don't think jdcarpe would mind drawing up any plate that is wanted. However prices are going to be higher on low quantity plates

esoomenona · « **Reply #68 on:** Wed, 29 May 2013, 18:45:49 »

I have asked jd for an ISO one. Would you be interested in it? It's ISO 1.5x with a short right shift.

Winther · « **Reply #69 on:** Wed, 29 May 2013, 20:01:07 »

Quote from: esoomenona on Wed, 29 May 2013, 18:45:49

I have asked jd for an ISO one. Would you be interested in it? It's ISO 1.5x with a short right shift.

I would be interested in one or two if its the same as the ISO plate for the GH60. Im not all too familiar with cap/key sizes. But I'm used to a long right shift and 1.25 sizes in the lowest modifier row, however the long shift is not a must I think. But I would prefer the same as the GH60 ISO plate..

esoomenona · « **Reply #70 on:** Wed, 29 May 2013, 20:05:58 »

Yeah, that is the opposite of the plate I want...

Winther · « **Reply #71 on:** Wed, 29 May 2013, 20:12:40 »

Quote from: esoomenona on Wed, 29 May 2013, 20:05:58

Yeah, that is the opposite of the plate I want...

I could be in for one of both if it isnt too expensive..

Anyways ill fill out the form now that I know ISO is a possibility..

Could this be done for the GH60 by any chance?

jdcarpe · « **Reply #72 on:** Wed, 29 May 2013, 20:18:17 »

Quote from: The_Beast on Wed, 29 May 2013, 18:21:52

Quote from: Winther on Wed, 29 May 2013, 11:32:38
Sorry if this has already been asked.. Any chance of a ISO layout? then I would be in for a couple I think. (depending on price ofcourse..)

I don't think jdcarpe would mind drawing up any plate that is wanted. However prices are going to be higher on low quantity plates

Sure, I don't mind drawing plates for any of the plate designs available for the GH60. If someone doesn't mind paying for a low quantity plate, I don't mind drawing it up.

samwisekoi · « **Reply #73 on:** Wed, 29 May 2013, 20:54:24 »

Quote from: jdcarpe on Wed, 29 May 2013, 20:18:17

Quote from: The_Beast on Wed, 29 May 2013, 18:21:52
Quote from: Winther on Wed, 29 May 2013, 11:32:38
Sorry if this has already been asked.. Any chance of a ISO layout? then I would be in for a couple I think. (depending on price ofcourse..)

I don't think jdcarpe would mind drawing up any plate that is wanted. However prices are going to be higher on low quantity plates

Sure, I don't mind drawing plates for any of the plate designs available for the GH60. If someone doesn't mind paying for a low quantity plate, I don't mind drawing it up.

The dimensions include room for the bends, so the best way to go is to modify one of my DWG files using the Escape key as a locator.

Also, I left the LED hole next to the Caps Lock position, but that can probably be deleted for the GH60. Do NOT remove the small strengthening braces in the spacebar slot until AFTER the plates are bent. Otherwise the bending break will distort the spacebar switch hole.

I am also happy to modify or help modify any of the DWG files if desired.

- Ron I samwisekoi

jdcarpe · « **Reply #74 on:** Wed, 29 May 2013, 22:43:00 »

Quote from: samwisekoi on Wed, 29 May 2013, 20:54:24

Quote from: jdcarpe on Wed, 29 May 2013, 20:18:17
Quote from: The_Beast on Wed, 29 May 2013, 18:21:52
Quote from: Winther on Wed, 29 May 2013, 11:32:38
Sorry if this has already been asked.. Any chance of a ISO layout? then I would be in for a couple I think. (depending on price ofcourse..)

I don't think jdcarpe would mind drawing up any plate that is wanted. However prices are going to be higher on low quantity plates

Sure, I don't mind drawing plates for any of the plate designs available for the GH60. If someone doesn't mind paying for a low quantity plate, I don't mind drawing it up.

The dimensions include room for the bends, so the best way to go is to modify one of my DWG files using the Escape key as a locator.

Also, I left the LED hole next to the Caps Lock position, but that can probably be deleted for the GH60. Do NOT remove the small strengthening braces in the spacebar slot until AFTER the plates are bent. Otherwise the bending break will distort the spacebar switch hole.

I am also happy to modify or help modify any of the DWG files if desired.

- Ron I samwisekoi

Thanks for the tips. That's actually how I copy and paste most of my designs into others. I pick a reference point, such as the ESC key, and draw a couple lines intersecting at the center of that switch hole. Then copy the existing design, using the center of the same switch hole as a reference, and paste into the new plate. Copy with reference is one of the most-used tricks in my drawings.

Also, thanks for the tip about the spacebar slot. I didn't consider that, but it makes sense. The place where I got my lubing station bent has a machine that uses a press, rather than a pan break, to make the bends. If the spacebar slot needs those braces to strengthen it during the bending process, maybe we should just eliminate the slot altogether.

samwisekoi · « **Reply #75 on:** Thu, 30 May 2013, 09:55:52 »

I didn't use the slot myself, but some people do, and so I put in those bars so that it would survive the break and then be easy to Dremel open again. One the flange is bent, the switch hole is not going anywhere!

- Ron I samwisekoi

esoomenona · « **Reply #76 on:** Thu, 30 May 2013, 09:58:24 »

Can we see pictures of the drawings? I always like to look at those!

The_Beast · « **Reply #77 on:** Thu, 30 May 2013, 10:00:32 »

Quote from: esoomenona on Thu, 30 May 2013, 09:58:24

Can we see pictures of the drawings? I always like to look at those!

Can't say I don't say "yes"

esoomenona · « **Reply #78 on:** Thu, 30 May 2013, 10:04:16 »

Purty! Though, just out of personal preference, I would say your Poker suits are all wrong. Left to right: Spades, Hearts, Clubs, Diamonds.

The_Beast · « **Reply #79 on:** Thu, 30 May 2013, 10:06:19 »

Quote from: esoomenona on Thu, 30 May 2013, 10:04:16

Purty! Though, just out of personal preference, I would say your Poker suits are all wrong. Left to right: Spades, Hearts, Clubs, Diamonds.

It is mirrored. So when looking at it it would be, spades, heart, diamond, clubs

So close enough for your moose eyes....

esoomenona · « **Reply #80 on:** Thu, 30 May 2013, 10:09:11 »

Yes it is mirrored, so wouldn't it be Clubs, Diamonds, Hearts, Spades?

The_Beast · « **Reply #81 on:** Thu, 30 May 2013, 16:12:45 »

Quote from: esoomenona on Thu, 30 May 2013, 10:09:11

Yes it is mirrored, so wouldn't it be Clubs, Diamonds, Hearts, Spades?

Show Image

I read from right to left.....

........

esoomenona · « **Reply #82 on:** Thu, 30 May 2013, 16:16:29 »

Because of all of this, you forfeit any money for that OG. Just mail it to me with the platecase.

oluf · « **Reply #83 on:** Mon, 03 June 2013, 12:11:55 »

I love this design! I filled in the form for one, but if I could get some TKL variants (eg, phantom) I would buy several more.. What a great platform for PCB-less boards. =)

Dubsgalore · « **Reply #84 on:** Mon, 03 June 2013, 12:16:07 »

forgot about this...really hope it happens

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #85 on:** Mon, 03 June 2013, 14:45:42 »

I know this may be surpassing the point of this a bit, but would it be possible to make it so it has more extension so it can be bent one more time to have tabs on the bottom? I was thinking to have some small tabs on the bottom that could be drilled and tapped, and have a 2nd piece of metal that bolts together to comprise a bottom and sides for a full case. I figure this would still be a relatively cheap option while still offering some protection for the pcb on the bottom and sides just in case, or for possible portability.

excuse my crappy illustration.

esoomenona · « **Reply #86 on:** Mon, 03 June 2013, 14:53:10 »

The_Beast · « **Reply #87 on:** Mon, 03 June 2013, 14:58:29 »

The guy only has a laser cutter and a break. No drill, no taps so they would have to be taken to a separate shop to be taps (he could more than likely laser a hole accurate enough for tapping) or I could tap them myself. However I've never tapped stainless before.

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #88 on:** Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:06:40 »

Oh, well my illustration the top is the side view to explain what I meant by bottom tabs, the bottom would be like front view to show sides coming up. So the bottom would be really simple like just a flat with 2 90 bends for the sides though they would have to be cut with a slope to match the top front to back rise. Then just 4-6 bolts that fasten through the bottom and thread into the top plate piece tabs. I wish I could make a fancy 3D thing to explain what I am talking about but I hope I am making some sort of sense.

esoomenona · « **Reply #89 on:** Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:08:12 »

Oh, so you want to enclose the entire thing, sides and all, not just the bottom.

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #90 on:** Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:13:41 »

Right. It would require about the same amount effort and not too much more in the way of material I guess. If they can't tap, to me that is not a big problem. You could just have people tap the holes themselves, hand taps are not that much.

esoomenona · « **Reply #91 on:** Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:14:24 »

Personally, I like the sides being open. Gives it a kind of industrial feel.

samwisekoi · « **Reply #92 on:** Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:14:59 »

The double bend is a problem for most breaks. In practice I have found that the straight edge with some U-channel work fine on a flat surface.

Also, it is really hard to solder the top and bottom row without an overhanging flange. It would be even harder -- and maybe impossible -- to hard-wire a board with Ivan's overhangs. Moose's idea would be better for that, but the front would have to be raised, as there is only about 3/16" between the desk and the PCB as is.

I did a clear Acrylic bottom plate under my GH75 prototype that rested on the inner lip formed by the U-channel. That worked pretty well.

I agree the sides should be open.

- Ron | samwisekoi

p.s. Hand taps that will cut small threads in SS are expensive. And prone to snapping.

The_Beast · « **Reply #93 on:** Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:18:10 »

Yup, bending the sides depend on the break he has, which I'm not sure of

They could be made of aluminum for easier tapping, but is it strong enough samwisekoi?

samwisekoi · « **Reply #94 on:** Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:21:00 »

Quote from: The_Beast on Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:18:10

Yup, bending the sides depend on the break he has, which I'm not sure of

They could be made of aluminum for easier tapping, but is it strong enough samwisekoi?

I think so, and almost said so above. For sure it would be strong enough for a Poker-sized PCB.

You would have to be very careful not to strip the threads with steel screws/bolts.

- Ron | samwisekoi

esoomenona · « **Reply #95 on:** Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:22:03 »

OOH, and then we could get them anodized!?

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #96 on:** Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:23:19 »

I thought I would toss the idea out there. If it isn't feasible no problem.

samwisekoi · « **Reply #97 on:** Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:23:57 »

Quote from: esoomenona on Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:22:03

OOH, and then we could get them anodized!?

Not to wander TOO far from the inexpensive, bare-bones concept or anything...

[edit]

But Ti would be awesome!

[/edit]

The_Beast · « **Reply #98 on:** Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:24:13 »

Quote from: esoomenona on Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:22:03

OOH, and then we could get them anodized!?

Yea, I have a place that I wanted to test out anyways

Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:23:19

I thought I would toss the idea out there. If it isn't feasible no problem.

It's an IC, all ideas are welcome!

esoomenona · « **Reply #99 on:** Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:25:25 »

Quote from: samwisekoi on Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:23:57

Quote from: esoomenona on Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:22:03
OOH, and then we could get them anodized!?

Not to wander TOO far from the inexpensive, bare-bones concept or anything...

[edit]

But Ti would be awesome!

[/edit]

Are you suggesting 18k gold plating and lasering holes for diamonds?

samwisekoi · « **Reply #100 on:** Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:26:06 »

Quote from: esoomenona on Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:25:25

Quote from: samwisekoi on Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:23:57
Quote from: esoomenona on Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:22:03
OOH, and then we could get them anodized!?

Not to wander TOO far from the inexpensive, bare-bones concept or anything...

[edit]

But Ti would be awesome!

[/edit]

Are you suggesting 18k gold plating and lasering holes for diamonds?

Only for connectors and pivot points.

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #101 on:** Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:28:09 »

Make them out of iridium... gold is too cheap and tacky.

ApocalypseMaow · « **Reply #102 on:** Mon, 03 June 2013, 20:24:40 »

Iridium! I'm sold.

jdcarpe · « **Reply #103 on:** Wed, 05 June 2013, 13:23:59 »

Moose, are these poker suit cutouts more to your liking?

GON · « **Reply #104 on:** Wed, 05 June 2013, 20:45:20 »

Quote from: The_Beast on Fri, 10 May 2013, 14:40:03

Nice looking, function over form kinda case. Fill out the form and let me know!

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Bdri-LeYy_Dm2pHjWdvdh5qB9k-0klwVWXx90mYDhbo/viewform

Bending would be done by my laser guy, ApocalypseMaow's friend, or if all else fails, maybe samwisekoi.

Photos via samwisekoi:
Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

I also made this kind of case, a skinny one.

I made it /w Aluminium 2T CNC machining + anodizing(customer can choose the color)

Now the sample is in a anodizing factory.
Coming soon. ;)

I think the pricing would be under $80 + shipping.

Turbo Slaab · « **Reply #105 on:** Wed, 05 June 2013, 21:56:44 »

Quote from: GON on Wed, 05 June 2013, 20:45:20

Quote from: The_Beast on Fri, 10 May 2013, 14:40:03
Nice looking, function over form kinda case. Fill out the form and let me know!

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Bdri-LeYy_Dm2pHjWdvdh5qB9k-0klwVWXx90mYDhbo/viewform

Bending would be done by my laser guy, ApocalypseMaow's friend, or if all else fails, maybe samwisekoi.

Photos via samwisekoi:
Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

I think the pricing would be under $80 + shipping.

I would hope so!

domoaligato · « **Reply #106 on:** Tue, 11 June 2013, 19:37:32 »

Quote from: GON on Wed, 05 June 2013, 20:45:20

Quote from: The_Beast on Fri, 10 May 2013, 14:40:03
Nice looking, function over form kinda case. Fill out the form and let me know!

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Bdri-LeYy_Dm2pHjWdvdh5qB9k-0klwVWXx90mYDhbo/viewform

Bending would be done by my laser guy, ApocalypseMaow's friend, or if all else fails, maybe samwisekoi.

Photos via samwisekoi:
Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

I also made this kind of case, a skinny one.

I made it /w Aluminium 2T CNC machining + anodizing(customer can choose the color)

Now the sample is in a anodizing factory.
Coming soon. ;)

I think the pricing would be under $80 + shipping.

I will stick with the case design from this thread.
I like the cases/plates to have the switch hole cutouts that allow the switch tops to be removed easily.
None of the Gon cases/plates include this cutout design.

Poom · « **Reply #107 on:** Mon, 01 July 2013, 15:37:17 »

oh yeah this is exactly what ive been waiting for! cheap and cheerful!

def in for at least 1, but if there is Filco/QFR/phantom size, ill be in for a couple more.

Good luck guys, hope everything works out.

agodinhost · « **Reply #108 on:** Mon, 01 July 2013, 15:42:42 »

Sorry, I didn't saw any info regarding price ...
Any idea of the price?
Please?

The_Beast · « **Reply #109 on:** Mon, 01 July 2013, 15:43:33 »

Quote from: agodinhost on Mon, 01 July 2013, 15:42:42

Sorry, I didn't saw any info regarding price ...
Any idea of the price?
Please?

I just need to find out the cost of bending

agodinhost · « **Reply #110 on:** Tue, 02 July 2013, 16:07:31 »

Quote from: The_Beast on Mon, 01 July 2013, 15:43:33

Quote from: agodinhost on Mon, 01 July 2013, 15:42:42
Sorry, I didn't saw any info regarding price ...
Any idea of the price?
Please?

I just need to find out the cost of bending

Please, could you note me when you get this price?
I'm interested in - I just don't how many (it will depend on your price)
Thanks man!

The_Beast · « **Reply #111 on:** Tue, 02 July 2013, 17:07:05 »

Quote from: agodinhost on Tue, 02 July 2013, 16:07:31

Quote from: The_Beast on Mon, 01 July 2013, 15:43:33
Quote from: agodinhost on Mon, 01 July 2013, 15:42:42
Sorry, I didn't saw any info regarding price ...
Any idea of the price?
Please?

I just need to find out the cost of bending
Please, could you note me when you get this price?
I'm interested in - I just don't how many (it will depend on your price)
Thanks man!

Will do. I'll be picking up plates from the cutter soon. I'll ask about bending for this and the lube station

Poom · « **Reply #112 on:** Tue, 02 July 2013, 17:21:24 »

beast im ready to pay.... lol

im so looking forward for this

tricheboars · « **Reply #113 on:** Tue, 02 July 2013, 22:48:24 »

i think this is a really cool idea and i would be down for 1. i filled out the thingamajob new fangled technological wiz form and such to declare interest.

the gh60 pcb is cool all hell but it is also black. i am not sure black will pop with this case. perhaps i shall seek out one of 'dem fancy white korean pcbs i see floatin around every once in a while. too bad they need 'dem fancy smd soldering.

snoopy · « **Reply #114 on:** Wed, 03 July 2013, 03:09:13 »

didn't read through all this, but will there be a iso-version?

thx

domoaligato · « **Reply #115 on:** Wed, 03 July 2013, 05:58:09 »

Quote from: tricheboars on Tue, 02 July 2013, 22:48:24

i think this is a really cool idea and i would be down for 1. i filled out the thingamajob new fangled technological wiz form and such to declare interest.

the gh60 pcb is cool all hell but it is also black. i am not sure black will pop with this case. perhaps i shall seek out one of 'dem fancy white korean pcbs i see floatin around every once in a while. too bad they need 'dem fancy smd soldering.

or you could try your hand at the lowpoly method and go without a pcb. that is what i want to use them for.

Poom · « **Reply #116 on:** Wed, 03 July 2013, 07:01:22 »

Quote from: domoaligato on Wed, 03 July 2013, 05:58:09

Quote from: tricheboars on Tue, 02 July 2013, 22:48:24
i think this is a really cool idea and i would be down for 1. i filled out the thingamajob new fangled technological wiz form and such to declare interest.

the gh60 pcb is cool all hell but it is also black. i am not sure black will pop with this case. perhaps i shall seek out one of 'dem fancy white korean pcbs i see floatin around every once in a while. too bad they need 'dem fancy smd soldering.

or you could try your hand at the lowpoly method and go without a pcb. that is what i want to use them for.

How can you do that? I also wanna try, but have no clue about electronics stuff, can only solder. but wouldnt you have a billion cables everwhere???

jdcarpe · « **Reply #117 on:** Wed, 03 July 2013, 07:05:47 »

Quote from: tricheboars on Tue, 02 July 2013, 22:48:24

i think this is a really cool idea and i would be down for 1. i filled out the thingamajob new fangled technological wiz form and such to declare interest.

the gh60 pcb is cool all hell but it is also black. i am not sure black will pop with this case. perhaps i shall seek out one of 'dem fancy white korean pcbs i see floatin around every once in a while. too bad they need 'dem fancy smd soldering.

Except that you really won't see the PCB under the stainless steel plate, so I'm not sure why the color matters...

Quote from: snoopy on Wed, 03 July 2013, 03:09:13

didn't read through all this, but will there be a iso-version?

thx

I can send plate designs for any version requested.

Quote from: Poom on Wed, 03 July 2013, 07:01:22

How can you do that? I also wanna try, but have no clue about electronics stuff, can only solder. but wouldnt you have a billion cables everwhere???

Click on the "Keyboard Prototyping" link in my sig for more info.

tricheboars · « **Reply #118 on:** Wed, 03 July 2013, 09:28:16 »

JD you can totally see the PCB from the side shot of this case/plate. Plus, this is geekhack! Appearance is everything! **** man we put brass plates inside cases! We add stickers to switches! We do all kinds of crazy things to keyboards that no one besides fellow members would ever notice.

I dont need a reason to want a crazy colored pcb with this case. I just do.

jdcarpe · « **Reply #119 on:** Wed, 03 July 2013, 10:07:22 »

Quote from: tricheboars on Wed, 03 July 2013, 09:28:16

JD you can totally see the PCB from the side shot of this case/plate. Plus, this is geekhack! Appearance is everything! **** man we put brass plates inside cases! We add stickers to switches! We do all kinds of crazy things to keyboards that no one besides fellow members would ever notice.

I dont need a reason to want a crazy colored pcb with this case. I just do.

But GH60 > Korean 60% PCB

Cuz GH

domoaligato · « **Reply #120 on:** Wed, 03 July 2013, 11:37:06 »

Quote from: jdcarpe on Wed, 03 July 2013, 07:05:47

Click on the "Keyboard Prototyping" link in my sig for more info.

here is the link to the prototyping thread
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40567.0

jdcarpe,
from that thread...

Quote from: jdcarpe on Fri, 24 May 2013, 16:42:40

Quote from: bisl on Fri, 24 May 2013, 16:36:35
I want a 60% board containing nothing more than a 15x5 matrix of 1x keys.

75 non-staggered keys?

I really want this matrix design to hardwire with the beasts plate/case design.
I thought you had drawn a mockup for bisl in the prototyping thread but I couldn't find it.

Dubsgalore · « **Reply #121 on:** Wed, 03 July 2013, 11:40:09 »

triche,

JD is 100% right,
GH60 > Korean 60% PCB

jdcarpe · « **Reply #122 on:** Wed, 03 July 2013, 12:31:36 »

Quote from: domoaligato on Wed, 03 July 2013, 11:37:06

I really want this matrix design to hardwire with the beasts plate/case design.
I thought you had drawn a mockup for bisl in the prototyping thread but I couldn't find it.

You want this?

I told you guys, I can draw up any plate design you want.

The_Beast · « **Reply #123 on:** Wed, 03 July 2013, 12:46:51 »

Quote from: jdcarpe on Wed, 03 July 2013, 12:31:36

Quote from: domoaligato on Wed, 03 July 2013, 11:37:06
I really want this matrix design to hardwire with the beasts plate/case design.
I thought you had drawn a mockup for bisl in the prototyping thread but I couldn't find it.

You want this?

Show Image

I told you guys, I can draw up any plate design you want. :)

I don't mind running these plates, however you have to understand that they will cost more since the quantity is so low/ only one

domoaligato · « **Reply #124 on:** Wed, 03 July 2013, 13:27:48 »

Quote from: The_Beast on Wed, 03 July 2013, 12:46:51

Quote from: jdcarpe on Wed, 03 July 2013, 12:31:36
Quote from: domoaligato on Wed, 03 July 2013, 11:37:06
I really want this matrix design to hardwire with the beasts plate/case design.
I thought you had drawn a mockup for bisl in the prototyping thread but I couldn't find it.

You want this?

Show Image

I told you guys, I can draw up any plate design you want. :)

I don't mind running these plates, however you have to understand that they will cost more since the quantity is so low/ only one

understood. and i totally want one. bisl might also.

aj-kun · « **Reply #125 on:** Wed, 03 July 2013, 14:34:32 »

interested

SeriouSSpotS · « **Reply #126 on:** Fri, 05 July 2013, 16:03:11 »

Form filled

The_Beast · « **Reply #127 on:** Wed, 10 July 2013, 09:08:39 »

I'll be stopping at the laser cutter today to inquire about the bending of this and the lube station

sth · « **Reply #128 on:** Wed, 10 July 2013, 20:37:58 »

Quote from: The_Beast on Wed, 10 July 2013, 09:08:39

I'll be stopping at the laser cutter today to inquire about the bending of this and the lube station

i just had a thought. what if you had them scored but not bent? that way you can ship them out flat and then when we get em we can just bend them ourselves? i dont know if that's feasible but if so it would make it so much easier to ship and not get damaged.

jdcarpe · « **Reply #129 on:** Wed, 10 July 2013, 20:42:18 »

Quote from: sth on Wed, 10 July 2013, 20:37:58

Quote from: The_Beast on Wed, 10 July 2013, 09:08:39
I'll be stopping at the laser cutter today to inquire about the bending of this and the lube station

i just had a thought. what if you had them scored but not bent? that way you can ship them out flat and then when we get em we can just bend them ourselves? i dont know if that's feasible but if so it would make it so much easier to ship and not get damaged.

16-gauge SS would be nearly impossible to bend yourself, with any kind of decent result. And trust me, shipping these isn't going to damage them. Extremely sturdy, they are, once bent.

The_Beast · « **Reply #130 on:** Wed, 10 July 2013, 20:45:19 »

Quote from: sth on Wed, 10 July 2013, 20:37:58

Quote from: The_Beast on Wed, 10 July 2013, 09:08:39
I'll be stopping at the laser cutter today to inquire about the bending of this and the lube station

i just had a thought. what if you had them scored but not bent? that way you can ship them out flat and then when we get em we can just bend them ourselves? i dont know if that's feasible but if so it would make it so much easier to ship and not get damaged.

hmm, that's an idea, but I'm not sure I like it. It has to be weak enough for an average person to bend, but still strong enough to stand the day to day wear of a keyboard (I don't think it's much, but still

He got a new laser machine, another $300,000 laser cutter. However he's swamped with orders

Anyways onto the bending, he doesn't have a finger break, only a die type machine. He's not sure he'll be able to bend them

. He suggested adding more material for a bigger bend radius or adding perforation so the it will bend easier.

We also talked about aluminum as the material. While it is easier to bend, it can become brittle and crack.

So either I have to find a metal shop around me with a finger break, or get jdcarpe, ApocalypseMaow, or samwisekoi to bend them since they know someone or have bended once of these plates themselves.

Leslieann · « **Reply #131 on:** Thu, 11 July 2013, 15:55:51 »

Quote from: sth on Wed, 10 July 2013, 20:37:58

Quote from: The_Beast on Wed, 10 July 2013, 09:08:39
I'll be stopping at the laser cutter today to inquire about the bending of this and the lube station

i just had a thought. what if you had them scored but not bent? that way you can ship them out flat and then when we get em we can just bend them ourselves? i dont know if that's feasible but if so it would make it so much easier to ship and not get damaged.

That might be okay for one or two people, but for most, it's completely impractical.

jspark · « **Reply #132 on:** Tue, 16 July 2013, 14:41:04 »

I guess.. for most people, poker layout is the best pick.

esoomenona · « **Reply #133 on:** Tue, 16 July 2013, 14:43:52 »

giebplteplox

Turbo Slaab · « **Reply #134 on:** Mon, 22 July 2013, 03:22:32 »

Um, hi!

audukent · « **Reply #135 on:** Tue, 23 July 2013, 13:15:50 »

jspark · « **Reply #136 on:** Mon, 29 July 2013, 14:19:40 »

Any update?

The_Beast · « **Reply #137 on:** Mon, 29 July 2013, 17:45:38 »

I'm in contact with other members about bending services

Dhell82 · « **Reply #138 on:** Tue, 06 August 2013, 23:15:27 »

Hi all, new member here from AUS. Really hoping for this IC to pick up. I'm interested to get a GH60 as my first attempt at modding a KB. Most other threads i've visited have already closed or ended the ordering period. Want this even more after spending an hour and abit reading about Smallfry.

gnubag · « **Reply #139 on:** Tue, 06 August 2013, 23:26:59 »

Quote from: Dhell82 on Tue, 06 August 2013, 23:15:27

Hi all, new member here from AUS. Really hoping for this IC to pick up. I'm interested to get a GH60 as my first attempt at modding a KB. Most other threads i've visited have already closed or ended the ordering period. Want this even more after spending an hour and abit reading about Smallfry.

just to make this clear, you don't get a GH60 here in this thread. if you still want one look in the classifieds since the groupbuy ordering period is closed.

The_Beast · « **Reply #140 on:** Wed, 07 August 2013, 01:09:00 »

I have a test plate cut and ready to ship to the person bending them!

terran5992 · « **Reply #141 on:** Mon, 19 August 2013, 04:02:03 »

Submitted my interest if its still on

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Author Topic: [IC] Poker/GH60 plate/case combo (Read 34355 times)