[IC] Chainmaille cable armor - Updated 12/31/2013

[CalmB4tehPwn]

NEW INFORMATION IN THE FINAL POST

Hey guys,

Well, I've been floating around for awhile now, and I think I've finally found a way to put my hobby to use in this beautiful community of ours.

Screw cable sleeves, how about Cable Armor?

Now, I'm working with another member of our fine forum to provide complete USB cables, with armor. I also want to offer the armor seperately for those of you who would like to armor a cable up yourself. Since each cable will require enough rings to meet my supplier's MOQ, each piece is only as limited as your budget. I'll be getting my hand on a piece of USB cable in the next week or two (the same size cable that will be available for sale) so I can do pictures and give you guys a feel of what's available as well as work out a final price. Now, a tentative price, with USB cable included is $150. That's a stainless steel or aluminum armor (colors are the same cost), in the most basic styles, pictures below. Titanium is also an option for any big spenders, but this will get prohibitively expensive, and I wont even get into potential costs unless someone is adamant. Throwing out a figure, we're looking at closer to $300.

Now most of the cost on this is coming from my time spent on each product (unless you're looking at four feet of titanium rings), and so it may come down as I realize this project goes quicker than anticipated, or up, or even scrapped, if it takes so long that the price just doesn't make sense, and I can't justify spending that much time on a single piece.

I'd like to shoot for a run of ten of these, and since I want one myself, then we've got nine spots. There's a good possibility that I may never do another run of these, and possibly go into a well of depression after doing ten, four foot cables. I'd like to see four people sign up before we push forward, so we're not spending an absurd amount of money on shipping costs from Canada to Korea (where I'll be working on the project)

So, tentative cost is $150 in stainless steel
probably $140 in plain aluminum, and $145 in colored aluminum.

or $125 with no USB cable.
Prices would be higher for a 6ft cable, closer to the $200 range, potentially.
I wont know specifically how much prices will differ between materials, or lengths, until I've mocked up 1 ft lengths, and will use them to estimate time, and material costs from there.


Concept image:


This is a weave called Captive Inverted round, and the center is hollow. There are a few variations, to include standard inverted round which would be the same but remove the red and silver rings from this weave, leaving the cable beneath significantly more visible. This would probably cut the price down $10.

These cables would still hold the ability to bend, but would adhere to a more stringent bend radius. Once I get a foot cable mocked up, I'll take pictures at the furthest said weave will bend.

Now, as I said, you can choose any colors your want, and are not tied to going with a majority vote. Even to the point where we could consider a rainbow cable. Let me know what you want!

Also, I might be open to trades for this group buy for my time. You'd still need to pay the 25 for the USB cable, but I might be open to waive the 125 on my side for a keyboard. Just an idea.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

color post!

Blac and Blue:


Purple and Gold


Green and Orange


Red and Violet


Bright Aluminum and Stainless Steel



and NEW ALUMINUM COLORS! WHEW
What a time to be alive.

Yellow and Bronze:

(bronze colored aluminum)

Lavender and Sky Blue:


Pink and Seafoam:


Ice and Champagne:

[SpAmRaY]

Cool idea.

[mkawa]

YES!!!!

but why only for cables?

[CalmB4tehPwn]

YES!!!!

but why only for cables?

what else are you thinking?

[germy]

Very cool idea.

[MOZ]

Nice idea, but the price, I can understand, it is just I can't get around to spending $150 for a cable

[Latin00032]

I wish there was at least one finished so we can see how the USB heads appear on each side.

I know you are working on examples.

[do_Og@n]

Depending on price I would be down for this.

It might even hold the weight of a Model M while you swing it at some zombies.  ) )

[Photekq]

It's a really cool idea, and a beautiful result (going by your concept image).

I understand this is a hell of a lot of work, and the price is totally justified.. but it's simply far too much for me, especially since it's just a cable in the end.

[Rayne]

very awesome idea!
the price does scare me a little tho, but i might be interested depending on what the final price will be, also will want to see the pictures of it once you finish one.

[demik]

YES!!!!

but why only for cables?

what else are you thinking?

condoms

[CalmB4tehPwn]

I'm glad you guys like the idea. And I know the price it hefty, but four feet of chain is no joke, and I'm already cutting myself short on the value of my time. I figured if people were spending 200 dollars on a single keycap, there's got to be at least a few people willing to put up 150 for an extravagant cable.

I wish there was at least one finished so we can see how the USB heads appear on each side.

I know you are working on examples.

You've actually just touched on the biggest variable in this whole project. How to terminate the ends so that it looks complete, and intentional.
I've got this mental plan for how to do it, and I'm not sure I could explain it very well, but by halving the ring size, and doubling the amount of rings, at the ends, we can taper down far enough that the armor should fit under shrink tubing. There's be a ridge, from the last row of rings, angling down toward the usb (ridge on side away from USB) holding the armor in place.

I've got to work it all out, and I can't until I've got a cable in hand to work with, but I'll be giving you guys updates as I work out all the kinks.

I'm thinking I'll do my own cable first, to work out all the kinks, and so you guys can get a visual of the finished product.
Since we don't have an MOQ to meet, and we're not limited in the ways of a normal group buy, and since each cable will take such a large amount of time, I'm thinking we set it up, that if you want to pay now (or rather once I've got a concrete answer on a final price) then you reserve first spot in the queue. If you want to wait until there's a finished product, before putting up money, or even wait until the queue has gone down, that's perfectly okay, you'll just be waiting significantly longer.

Also, if anyone decides to put up money before my own cable is finished, and wants their cable done before my own, that's perfectly okay! And if there ends up being any complications that prevent orders from being completed, -FULL- refunds will be given out, and I'll be eating costs on any materials and shipping that may have already been purchased.


Now, since this is the first time I've ever done anything like this, if you think there's a better way I could go about it, let me know!

Also, remember. Keyboards are accepted as payment! Send me a Filco and you can be top of the list.

[MOZ]

Would you be open to selling the rings only, if someone would like to make the chain themselves?

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Well, as I said, the MOQ is pretty low for these. Once I work out how many are needed for the project, I'm happy pointing any interested parties to my supplier, where they can get the tools required as well as the materials.

I will say, however, if you've never done chainmaille before, this is a TERRIBLE first project. Not because it's overly difficult, but because it'll take so long, and it's that sort where from one day to the next, it'll look like you're getting so little done. I'd rather not point people this way only for them to get discouraged and have wasted their money.

[Topre]

Well, the pictures you posted has a watermark of a supplier for those rings. Regardless of who you are getting the rings from, they are pretty cheap so it won't matter if you point people to it now or later.

[YoungMichael88]

A friend and I dabbled in making chain stuff like this. I made myself a chain mail hackie-sack and a beer bottle cozy which my ex girlfriend "lost". It takes a loong time to do and is extremely tedious work so I totally understand the cost.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Well, the pictures you posted has a watermark of a supplier for those rings. Regardless of who you are getting the rings from, they are pretty cheap so it won't matter if you point people to it now or later.

Oh, yeah. I'm not trying to hide my supplier from anybody, and a simple google search will quickly and ultimately reveal that TRL (the ring lord) is the unequivocal king of the chainmaille supply world. Their prices, quality, consistency, and customer service are unparalleled in this niche market.

Also, prices may appear "cheap" but four or six feet of chain, and you're talking potentially thousands of rings, depending on the weave and size of said rings. They're reasonable, and materials like Stainless Steel and Aluminum, as I previously mentioned, aren't the reason for the high price.

Either way, I'd wait until I have everything hammered out, so I can tell any parties interested in doing it themselves, exactly what size rings, and how many, to purchase. You can poke around TRL all you want right now, but I unless you're a chainmailler or an engineer, the numbers most likely wont mean very much to you, and a project like this has never been done before, to my knowledge, so there's no other precedent for you to go off of, except my own.

I wasn't trying to keep people from the site, only trying to keep people from wasting their money on a size of rings that are useless to them.

So I'll say again, I'll happily point people to my supplier, once I have the details worked out.

[germy]

Do you think you would be able to weave these differently hence using less/more rings? Options always help stuff sell. Just a suggestion.

[Topre]

Well, the pictures you posted has a watermark of a supplier for those rings. Regardless of who you are getting the rings from, they are pretty cheap so it won't matter if you point people to it now or later.

Oh, yeah. I'm not trying to hide my supplier from anybody, and a simple google search will quickly and ultimately reveal that TRL (the ring lord) is the unequivocal king of the chainmaille supply world. Their prices, quality, consistency, and customer service are unparalleled in this niche market.

Also, prices may appear "cheap" but four or six feet of chain, and you're talking potentially thousands of rings, depending on the weave and size of said rings. They're reasonable, and materials like Stainless Steel and Aluminum, as I previously mentioned, aren't the reason for the high price.

Either way, I'd wait until I have everything hammered out, so I can tell any parties interested in doing it themselves, exactly what size rings, and how many, to purchase. You can poke around TRL all you want right now, but I unless you're a chainmailler or an engineer, the numbers most likely wont mean very much to you, and a project like this has never been done before, to my knowledge, so there's no other precedent for you to go off of, except my own.

I wasn't trying to keep people from the site, only trying to keep people from wasting their money on a size of rings that are useless to them.

So I'll say again, I'll happily point people to my supplier, once I have the details worked out.

I think your prices are fair for the amount of work that has to be done. I agree that it is hard to get right for someone messing around with these things for the first time. However, some people don't like to wait and would rather spend some money trying out new things and jumping in head first.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Do you think you would be able to weave these differently hence using less/more rings? Options always help stuff sell. Just a suggestion.

Oh, I'll definitely have a couple weave options, though for the most part, the inverted and captive inverted round weaves will be the least expensive. Most other weaves that could be used for this include significantly more rings, and more time involved. Though, I'll have sample shots of what I can do, and let you guys decide on the price.

[Sent]

Pretty interesting stuff...I'll definitely be keeping an eye on this.  Like others said...cost is the major issue for me.

[germy]

Oh, I'll definitely have a couple weave options, though for the most part, the inverted and captive inverted round weaves will be the least expensive. Most other weaves that could be used for this include significantly more rings, and more time involved. Though, I'll have sample shots of what I can do, and let you guys decide on the price.

Looking forward to checking out the variations. It is pricey but definitely fair for the amount of time and effort involved imo.

[jonathanyu]

this is really cool. but for the price of a cablr, i can't afford it

[MKULTRA]

Really sleek idea.  However I could not justify the price.

[asura]

This is a weave called Captive Inverted round, and the center is hollow. There are a few variations, to include standard inverted round which would be the same but remove the red and silver rings from this weave, leaving the cable beneath significantly more visible. This would probably cut the price down $10.

Looks very similar to the Byzantine or Kings link - jewellery.

Very nice work by the way.

[Noko]

Cool idea.  I do leatherworking as a hobby, and was thinking of doing something similar but with leather braiding.  Might put up my own IC as well if people are interested in new materials for custom cables.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Leather braiding might prove a better price point for those on a budget. You shouldn't be looking at quite as many hours in build time.

This is a weave called Captive Inverted round, and the center is hollow. There are a few variations, to include standard inverted round which would be the same but remove the red and silver rings from this weave, leaving the cable beneath significantly more visible. This would probably cut the price down $10.

Looks very similar to the Byzantine or Kings link - jewellery.

Very nice work by the way.

Byzantine (King's Link) is in the same family of weaves as the Round, and Inverted round subfamilies. If I were to break this down, Byzantine is two biased (four sides) where the two rings of each side come into the middle of the weave and lay atop eachother, leaving no room for a cable, where Inverted Round is 3 bias (6 sides) creating an open hexagon (two alternating open triangles) through the center of the weave. I'm eager to get my hands on some USB so I can start playing around. If the Inverted round works the way I hope (and doesn't take as long as I fear) there's a possibility of bringing that price point down (though, ultimately, the price change wont be drastic. I'd like to shoot for $120 total price, before shipping, but please don't throw that number back in my face if it proves unrealistic.)

[jil_jil32]

I really want to see several pics of the completed cables...

[CPTBadAss]

Why shouldn't we say anything if the price point is bad? I know you take a lot of time to work on this and it looks amazing but $120 for a USB cable...that's just insane.

I also think the markup on Clacks and GirlDC cap prices are outrageous too so that gives you a reference point for my opinion.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

I wasn't trying to imply that you shouldn't say anything. I'm here for feedback. If I didn't want feedback, I wouldn't have posted here. Just trying to present my case for the cable armor.

It's for people who have everything. They've found their favorite switch, they've composed their favorite keyboard, they're going through novelty keys like crazy but they need that final touch on their desk. The one thing that'll complete it all.

I'm not looking for 50, or 30 people who want in on this, because I know the price is high. I would argue that it's not outrageous, because people spend thousands of dollars on jewelry for their body, and I think most of the people on this site are more interested for jewelry for their desk. That's what this is.

So I'm just looking for 5 people who are interested enough in getting that final piece, a detachable USB cable with armor, for their desk and can afford to put roughly $150 (or a keyboard!) to make it happen.

[esoomenona]

In opposition to everyone else who says the price is bad, I disagree. If the materials and workmanship warrant the price, then that is the price they should be. Who else is offering this type of item? I'm not saying that he's jacking up the price because he's the only one selling them, because I don't believe that is the case. I truly believe that you're not considering the work and time going into these, and there isn't really anything on the market to compare them to.

And lastly, if the price is out of your range, I can understand saying that, but does that really warrant you saying that the price is incorrect?

[CPTBadAss]

And lastly, if the price is out of your range, I can understand saying that, but does that really warrant you saying that the price is incorrect?

Why should we not include our input if it is negative? I believe constructive criticism is a good thing, positive or negative.

[MOZ]

I will be honest, I can understand the price, given how time consuming it is. I feel it isn't hard but very time consuming.

For someone like me, staying in India, it is hard to value labour, as it is so damn cheap here , but I get where you are coming from.

What I would suggest CalmB4tehPwn is, don't hurry it, find out how long it will take to make one cable, number of rings used, etc, etc, and then review the price if need be.

Also, once you get the details sorted, make DIY kits for those who want to do it themselves, charge some amount for your time for sorting or what not, or just create a cart that can be shared on TRL.

[Photoelectric]

It's like saying that $400-600 Korean customs are overpriced and unnecessary--perfectly reasonable when you can do well with a $30 keyboard for a few years.  It's really the same thing: if a regular plastic cable is all you care about for functionality, you're not likely to spend even $30 on a custom sleeved cable (I mean, come on, pull some fabric shell over a cable, solder it up, and call it a day--do you see where Im going with it?)  It's for those who want every bit of their favorite items as beautiful, custom, and high quality as possible.

[CPTBadAss]

Things that come to mind for my argument include the Talon keyboard and a former GB ran by a member here for Clear switches. Should we pay $1.20/switch for Clears? Should I not say anything about that? Should we not say that the Talon keyboard is a cool concept but his fundraising goal is way too high?

Maybe I phrased it wrong when I said the price is bad. What I'm trying to say is that the price point is a bit steep for an unproven concept.

But I'm going to stop playing Negative Nancy here. It's a cool idea and I hope you do well. I really like when new people come into GH with fresh ideas.

[esoomenona]

It's really subjective. If you're of the opinion that the price is outrageous because your opinion of the end product doesn't take into account all the variables, then you will see it as such. This is what I see: you're the only person saying that the price is outrageous. The general consensus thus far has been that the product is nice, but the price is out of their range. And that's understandable. If the general consensus was that the price was completely unjustified, such as your examples, then I would see your point.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

It's like saying that $400-600 Korean customs are overpriced and unnecessary--perfectly reasonable when you can do well with a $30 keyboard for a few years.  It's really the same thing: if a regular plastic cable is all you care about for functionality, you're not likely to spend even $30 on a custom sleeved cable (I mean, come on, pull some fabric shell over a cable, solder it up, and call it a day--do you see where Im going with it?)  It's for those who want every bit of their favorite items as beautiful, custom, and high quality as possible.

Exactly. This product isn't for everybody. It couldn't be. I have to assemble these one ring at a time, and it's going to take me a long time to do that.

Think of it this way. Am I out of line for asking 60-90 dollars for an intricate stainless steel necklace? Well, if you consider that's what, 16 inches? That cost is for my time, the materials are inexpensive. Now the cable armor -should- go faster than making a necklace, bigger rings, simpler weave, but bigger rings means each ring is harder to work, and takes more time to make right. Then you think, I'm taking that example necklace at 60 dollars (what I would charge for general choker length, simple weave) and I'm multiplying it by four. That's 240, just for materials and time. I'm charging HALF of that for you guys, because I want to see this happen. By the way, never buy anything off of my etsy shop, hit me up on the forums and I'll give you a deal.

I am marking the value for my time as low as I'm willing to go, and consider the venture worthwhile. If there is not a single person who values the product, as much as I value my time? Well ****. Then I walk away. Not a big deal.

Thank you for your input, Cap. I value the criticism, because I wouldn't want a bunch of people to blow smoke up my ass, and I spend time arranging materials and getting everything ready, then moving forward and having absolutely no support. But you don't need to argue your point. You can't conceive spending $150 on a cable. No cable, unless dipped in gold, could be worth that much to you. Got it. Hopefully there's others who disagree with you.

Also, I don't think the Talon Keyboard should be part of that argument. I think his expectations aren't unjustified. His expectations from that medium of resource gathering are entirely unjustified, because he'll never get 400k from Kickstarter. He needs to go sell his product to a company already in the market, and he might just get what his profits would have been from the kickstarter project, were it to succeed. So I think his product might just be worth what he thinks it's worth, but I also think he's 2 years behind the curve, and needs to make some tweaks to the design, and get the hell off of kickstarter.

The difference is that you think my expectations of selling a single product are unreasonable, and you think his expectations of selling enough product to meet his goal are unreasonable.

And in one of those cases, I hope you're wrong.

As I said though. I've got no problem walking away from this project. I wont take it to the grave with me. I'll make one for me, give you guys a full photoshoot, and anyone who wants one can jump on. If nobody wants one, I move on with my life, and maybe even trade my own cable in the classifieds at some point. Because a keyboard is more valuable to me than a cable. But these are my skills, this is what I've got, and I'm humbly offering them to the community. Take it or leave it, and arguing how little you think my product is worth, isn't going to change the fact that I'll try. I'll reach the same point either way. I'll be standing in group buy with a prototype cable looking for people interested.

[WhiteFireDragon]

Hey this is a pretty cool idea that hasn't been presented before.

If we wanted to buy all the stuff to do it ourselves, roughly how long would making a 3-4 feet cable take, assuming we become efficient after the first 15 min?

[CalmB4tehPwn]

total hours? I don't even know. But I will post how long it takes me, and depending on your competency on stuff like this, probably add 20% to 50% in time.

You're probably looking at least 20 hours + of work time as a first time chainmailler.

Unfortunately, the problem with doing it yourself, is if you're using annodized aluminum, you can use the inexpensive pliers (like 4 bucks a plier, and you need two) but you're bound to slip the pliers a good amount and scrape the color off. If you use stainless steel, you can't use the standard sized pliers and need to get the big ol' boys, which add to work time, because they're not spring activated.

I would say, if you have super steady, and pretty strong hands, annodized aluminum would be a safe bet, but go into it expecting to mar the rings a bit, plain aluminum is a great choice, because you can mar the rings and it's not super noticable, and stainless steel I would advise against, in that size ring.

Unless I can use smaller rings than I expect. Again, this will all reveal itself when I get a cable on hand and can start working on it myself.


So, can I assume there's much more interest in DIY kits than complete armored cables?

Because I can do up a step by step instruction and do the kits right, include a two plier set of chainmaille pliers, the rings needed (in various colors).
Keep in mind you would have to be familiar with soldering USB ends, or send the finished armor piece off to one of our fine community solder soldiers to be finished.

Would you like me to include USB cable, and ends, and everything else? Or assume that you're already familiar with with USBs, and have that stuff, or that you'll send it off to someone, and wont need it anyways?

And again, we'll have to wait until I can see how many rings and such we're looking at before getting a price on kits, but we're probably looking at the $40 range shipped (pliers included)

And for anyone that does get a kit, and enjoys it, I will happily guide to supplier and tutorial websites so they can keep the craft going.

[MOZ]

$40 and 20 hours only for one chainmaille armor cable?

I am sold, please proceed with working on your tutorial sir. No time to waste.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Hah, alright.

So you guys want just the Chainmaille kit? Or would you want a USB kit in addition to the chainmaille kit?

[MOZ]

I think there are three things youbcah have as part of the kit:
Rings
Usb kit
Tools

I'd take rings and usb.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Make it a la cart, then?

[HoffmanMyster]

Make it a la cart, then?

That's my vote.  This is interesting to me, though I'm not sure if I would commit to it at this point (this point in time, not the price point - price is good for DIY set).  But either way, I think this method offers you the best way to get the most people interested.

[MOZ]

Yes, have these options:

- Rings
- USB Cable Kit
- Tools
- Assembly Charges

So people can opt for what they want, either to take on the challenge and make the cable themselves, understand that 20 hours is not a lot for many people here who spend hours on ends RnDing, assembling, stickering, lubing, modding keyboards.

Those who don't want the hassle can get it assembled.

Have plenty of colors and weaves, so a number of rings kits depending on weave as well, and you should be good to go, people love choices!

[elton5354]

How many rings do you estimate to make a 3 ft or 6 ft cable? It's $5-6 per oz (440 rings)

[esoomenona]

I personally think you shouldn't offer a DIY kit or a tutorial. You are providing a service here. Why would you offer all the help people need to take that service away from you?

[tjcaustin]

I personally think you shouldn't offer a DIY kit or a tutorial. You are providing a service here. Why would you offer all the help people need to take that service away from you?

Probably because offering DIY kits doesn't degrade the amount of people that will just pay him instead of doing it themselves?  Much like the plethora of DIY USB cable threads haven't killed off the cable makers here.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Honestly, moose. I think you'll be surprised how quickly people realize chainmailling is not for them. I'm not saying it's the most difficult thing in the world, but it takes a special breed of person to be able to make it through 20 hours of chainmaille. If people want the option, I'll give it to them, but they're going to have so many warped rings, and misaligned rings, that people might start to reconsider my offer.

But the GHers have spoken, they want DIY. Who am I to turn them down?

you say 20 hours isn't a lot of time to a lot of people, but I look around at all of the unstarted, or half finished DIYs in the classifieds, that I'll have to disagree with you. But if you want it, I'll help you get it. Some of you will finish the project and have a half decent cable to admire, and maybe even a couple of you will find out that you have a knack for it and I'll have a new chainmailling buddy, but this project is not for the undetermined. You have to be stalwart to take this on. I'd rather not send out 30 DIYs and find two people actually do it. I don't care that much about the money, I'd rather you end up with a work of art, even if it's not mine.

in regards to offering different weave kits? Hah, no. I'm already setting you up for failure by starting with an intermediate weave. There's no way I'll show you how to do weaves that will take either three times longer to complete, or require at least some background in the concept behind chainmaille, and an understanding in how rings interact and depend on eachother.

If you want to look up weaves on your own, and buy your own rings, I wont stop you, but I wont set up you guys up for failure by making DiY kits that are beyond a beginner's abilities. I'm not going to sit here and tell you what you can't do, but -most- of you cannot just jump into an advanced weave, and so I'm not even going to give the option.

Colors? Hell yeah. I'll have all the colors listed, and TRL gives bulk discounts on total amount of rings, as opposed to specific sizes, materials, or colors. So it doesn't even benefit us to order all one color. Depending on the ring size, I may not offer stainless steel in the DiY kits, firstly, it would take a different type of pliers if the steel is too thick, and second, nobody should start chainmaille on anything harder to work than 18g stainless steel.

[WhiteFireDragon]

I personally think you shouldn't offer a DIY kit or a tutorial. You are providing a service here. Why would you offer all the help people need to take that service away from you?

This statement is a bit ridiculous. That's like saying no one is allowed to buy a phantom, GH60, or ergodox unless it's preassembled by a selected few. So get rid of all your soldering irons .

Also for me personally, anything I can build or do myself, I'd prefer that over paying someone to do it. Self satisfaction can't be bought.

[Larken]

I totally understand where the asking price is coming from, and its definitely reasonable, given how labor and skill intensive this is.

150usd for over 20 hours of work? Minus the cost of the materials, we're looking at maybe five bucks an hour? The end product may be expensive, but labor ain't cheap, and 5/hr is pretty cheap/reasonable, depending on our perspective.

Personally I'll never spend that much on a usb cable. Then again, I sleeve my own cables over buying from the pro-makers on GH. Very cool idea, OP.

[MOZ]

You the pro, so you can decide what is good for us noobs, I personally prefer to do things by my own, it is more of a the learning which intrigues me, and if anything, I have been here a short while and I think atleast some members would have guessed I am a DIY person.

[jonathanyu]

jewelry for their desk!  I like this word!
I think I am in for this!

[YoungMichael88]

Like I've said in a previous post, I have dabbled in this stuff, tried out a few weaves and crafted a few items for myself. Yes it's time consuming but I can't see this taking 20 hours to finish. I could be wrong since I haven't done a cable yet. I'll see soon enough tho. As far as a DIY kit, I think that's the right direction to go if the savings are significant enough with you buying rings in bulk. Otherwise the Internet is a DIY kit. You can find all the weave instructions and supplies you need with little effort.
http://cgmaille.com/
http://theringlord.com/cart/default.asp
http://bit.ly/19MR0ox

[Elrick]

Honestly, moose. I think you'll be surprised how quickly people realize chainmailling is not for them. I'm not saying it's the most difficult thing in the world, but it takes a special breed of person to be able to make it through 20 hours of chainmaille. If people want the option, I'll give it to them, but they're going to have so many warped rings, and misaligned rings, that people might start to reconsider my offer.

If you are willing to torture yourself to produce a hand full of cables for us here then I'll buy at least 3 of them from you right now.

You guys get even more intense with what you want to cover your plain usb cables with.  Just make up an order form with colour selections and I'm there, also please state the length of the cables, be they 1.6 or 1.8 meters?

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Honestly, moose. I think you'll be surprised how quickly people realize chainmailling is not for them. I'm not saying it's the most difficult thing in the world, but it takes a special breed of person to be able to make it through 20 hours of chainmaille. If people want the option, I'll give it to them, but they're going to have so many warped rings, and misaligned rings, that people might start to reconsider my offer.

If you are willing to torture yourself to produce a hand full of cables for us here then I'll buy at least 3 of them from you right now.

You guys get even more intense with what you want to cover your plain usb cables with.  Just make up an order form with colour selections and I'm there, also please state the length of the cables, be they 1.6 or 1.8 meters?

I'd never call chainmaille torture. At least, not for me. But it seems every week I've got a new fried or coworker that wants to give it a try, and I loan them a pair of pliers and a fist full of steel rings, and sit down with them and teach them a basic weave or two, and they seem all interested, and then it's time for them to go home and finish their bracelet, and weeks goes by and I have to ask for my pliers back, because they haven't done anything to finish the bracelet.

My favorite thing in the world is teaching. Sharing my hobbies, but I'm sorry if I've gotten a little jaded about sharing chainmaille. If I can't motivate my friends to complete a 3-4 hour bracelet, in person, then I'm not confident many of you will finish a 20 hour + cable sleeve. Who knows, maybe everyone on GH cares enough about, and will step up and surprise the hell out of me. I've been doing this for twelve years, and I find it relaxing, but everyone else seems to find it stressful.

But if everyone wants to give it a shot, I'm more than happy to facilitate it. I just ask that you be honest with yourself. Is this a project you truly, actually, want to dedicate 2 hours a day to for ten days? Four hours a day for five days? In my case, that's literally doing nothing in my free time, after work, beside this project for an entire week. If you can't see yourself actually doing this, then don't get the kit. As I said, I wont be taking more than a few dollars from putting the kit and tutorial together (because as it's said, tutorials are plastered all over the internet, and building your own kit is a snap, once you know ring sizes and amounts which I'll be providing info on) so I'm not in the kit business for money, I honestly want people to find an interest in this, but be warned, it took me 6 months of wrapping my own wire by hand, and piecing together bracelets before I made something I'd be willing to wear. Warped rings and misalignments will be frustrating to a lot of you. Go into it knowing your work wont look like my work, because chainmaille isn't a science, it's an art.

And unfortunately, being at an APO I have to wait like 8 days for my practice cable to get here, and then test out a few ring sizes I have on hand before I can order enough to actually make an entire thing, wait 2 weeks for that to come in the mail (ordering from Canada, to send to a US APO, then to be shipped to Korea. It's gotta make two country changes) so it'll probably be a month before I have specifics for you, and example shots. Unless we're super lucky and I have the perfect ring size on hand in stainless steel, then I can give you accurate ring sizes out of the hatch and get going on getting the kit GB going.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Honestly, moose. I think you'll be surprised how quickly people realize chainmailling is not for them. I'm not saying it's the most difficult thing in the world, but it takes a special breed of person to be able to make it through 20 hours of chainmaille. If people want the option, I'll give it to them, but they're going to have so many warped rings, and misaligned rings, that people might start to reconsider my offer.

If you are willing to torture yourself to produce a hand full of cables for us here then I'll buy at least 3 of them from you right now.

You guys get even more intense with what you want to cover your plain usb cables with.  Just make up an order form with colour selections and I'm there, also please state the length of the cables, be they 1.6 or 1.8 meters?

Oh, and the standard length will be 4 feet, but since I'll have it worked out to how many hours it takes per foot for me to make these, I'll have figures written up for anything between 2 feet and 6 feet, depending on how much you want me to make. Keep in mind I could just make armor for the first two feet, the part that will show, from the keyboard. Then you drop the cable off the back of the desk and connect it to your computer.

Just a thought.

[MOZ]

Honestly, moose. I think you'll be surprised how quickly people realize chainmailling is not for them. I'm not saying it's the most difficult thing in the world, but it takes a special breed of person to be able to make it through 20 hours of chainmaille. If people want the option, I'll give it to them, but they're going to have so many warped rings, and misaligned rings, that people might start to reconsider my offer.

If you are willing to torture yourself to produce a hand full of cables for us here then I'll buy at least 3 of them from you right now.

You guys get even more intense with what you want to cover your plain usb cables with.  Just make up an order form with colour selections and I'm there, also please state the length of the cables, be they 1.6 or 1.8 meters?

Oh, and the standard length will be 4 feet, but since I'll have it worked out to how many hours it takes per foot for me to make these, I'll have figures written up for anything between 2 feet and 6 feet, depending on how much you want me to make. Keep in mind I could just make armor for the first two feet, the part that will show, from the keyboard. Then you drop the cable off the back of the desk and connect it to your computer.

Just a thought.

I like the sound of that.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Yeah, seems like a pretty reasonable compromise. I'd be investing roughly half the time, so half of the $125 and we'd be looking at closer to $60 or $70. Plus $25 to have a completed cable, of course. but still a better number than $150.

[Photoelectric]

What if you do a loose weave over a sleeved cable.  Like say a silver sleeve, or sky blue, or whatever matches the theme.  I guess that would make the overall cable too thick in the end =/  But some USB cables come in sparkly / transparent colors to start with already--other than the standard white or black.  Wouldn't look as nice as thin fabric under the rings though.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

The USBs will be provided by Nubbinator, and will come in a variety of colors. Both as part of the USB Kits included with the chainmaille kits, or as completed pieces.

Or, if you want to provide your own USB cable, then just leave that out of the order.

UPDATE

Well, I decided to take what I have and see what we've got. I hacked the cable off of my old busted BW (which should be a little thicker than Nubbinator's USB cables) and the rings I have on hand.

Firstly, I was able to do a foot in an hour
Now, the rings were slightly too big for this cable, which means it'll take a little longer to get the same distance, on the real thing, but we're probably looking at 1 1/2 hour, to 2 hours per foot. So PROBABLY less than 8 hours for a 4 foot cable. Again, this is all estimation, and will be determined by the final ring size used.

What else this means: Stainless still will be available in the kits. Keep this in mind, again, it's harder to work and will take you longer, but the option will be there for you.

Here's a couple crappy pictures of the foot that I did, in stainless steel, on BW black sleeved cable.

As you can see, the armor is big. We're probably looking at 75% of that total size for the finished product. These will not be small cables when they're done.
Let me know what you think, and if you have any questions at this point.

 




Tentative price for completed cable: $110

Also, of note, I've decided I'll be doing a tutorial video as well as instructions, and offering "Starter pieces" of 6 inches of the weave for 8 dollars, done in your colors and shipped with your DIY kit.

The hardest part of any chainmaille piece is starting it. So, for 8 bucks, I'll start it for you, with rings from your kit, so when you get it you don't have to fight it. Then when you complete the first project, if you're interested still in chainmaille, you can start the next project on your own. Should be an easier learning curve that way.

[SpAmRaY]

I think if someone pisses you off you can just take your armored usb cable and beat them with it.

[MOZ]

Definitely in for the kit. I'll do a complete length for the trrs cable and about two feet for the USB cable.

Since I am using metal connectors for the trrs cable,  this would go great with it.

[esoomenona]

I personally think you shouldn't offer a DIY kit or a tutorial. You are providing a service here. Why would you offer all the help people need to take that service away from you?

This statement is a bit ridiculous. That's like saying no one is allowed to buy a phantom, GH60, or ergodox unless it's preassembled by a selected few. So get rid of all your soldering irons .

Also for me personally, anything I can build or do myself, I'd prefer that over paying someone to do it. Self satisfaction can't be bought.

I wasn't going to argue my point, because it's essentially irrelevant at this point, but your scenario is completely different.

If a person was the sole provider of soldering services here, and people wanted to solder on their own, should that primary soldering agent provide the means to eliminate his service by providing equipment and knowledge to any other person? I'm not saying that people shouldn't do this if they don't want to; au contraire, the internet IS DIY, and information on things such as this are so readily available. What I'm saying is why should this man provide everyone else the means to limit the service he wants to provide?

Of course, my point is moot as he has chosen to do just that. So more power to him and everyone else.

[YoungMichael88]

Found my old stash!! But I can't find my jewelers pliers....

[CalmB4tehPwn]

That top bag looks like it might be pretty close to the correct size, actually.
Is that stainless steel, or galvanized? And let me know if you start trying your hand at inverted round. Give some of the other potential chainmaillers some motivation!

[YoungMichael88]

That top bag looks like it might be pretty close to the correct size, actually.
Is that stainless steel, or galvanized? And let me know if you start trying your hand at inverted round. Give some of the other potential chainmaillers some motivation!

Actually I bought these rings years ago and I can't remember the alloy haha. But as soon as I find my tools (or buy new ones) I'm going to start trying inverted round although I just want to see how everything fits before I get some colored rings. Thinking of using the bottom bag to taper the ends. I might need even smaller rings yet for that but then maybe the cable won't fit. I really don't know at this point.

[Elrick]

Oh, and the standard length will be 4 feet, but since I'll have it worked out to how many hours it takes per foot for me to make these, I'll have figures written up for anything between 2 feet and 6 feet, depending on how much you want me to make. Keep in mind I could just make armor for the first two feet, the part that will show, from the keyboard. Then you drop the cable off the back of the desk and connect it to your computer.

Just a thought.

Mmmm, that could work.  But need to see some samples first before committing.

I still want a usb cable made for my keyboard at a 6-foot length minimum, completely done in stainless-steel rings.  That would be worth the money.  I don't mind coloured rings in aluminum but the stainless ones should last forever and I've always loved that material.

Just need to see how you attach the stainless rings to the usb endbits (sorry, don't know what else to call them).

[nubbinator]

Just need to see how you attach the stainless rings to the usb endbits (sorry, don't know what else to call them).

Since he dropped my name already, which I was a little surprised to see, that's the hard part and one that I have major reservations about and have been offering suggestions and ideas on.  Hopefully I'll get a small length that I can experiment with to try and figure out a proper way to end it without resorting to heatshrink that may or may not look good.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

I've been thinking about how to terminate the armor, and integrate it into the cable.
I want to taper down at the ends, either way, which requires changing the as the rings get smaller, or it just wont fit on the USB cable any longer. Which is fine, but will take some tinkering on my part, and most likely inventing a new weave to accomplish it.

Once tapered, what do we do? It's a three sided weave, so we'll end with three rings that need to be anchored. We could run three of the four cables from the USB cable, through a ring each, then heatshrink it. I think that has a potential to look good, but really cuts down on survivability, because any strain put on the armor, is put on the weakest part of the USB cable, the individual wires. So that's out.

We can run two of the four cables through one ring, and connect the other two directly to that ring, but the end would look good on one side, and most likely look like a hot mess on the other.

We can try and find a way to run 3 braided wires through the back of the USB plug, maybe solder them to a safe place on the frame of the USB plug? Then run the cable through the three termination rings, at the end of the weave, and crimp it in place, and use heat shielding over the three braided wires, ending at the edge of the first three rings? Would that work?

Or failing all else, it's not exactly pretty but it should work. Get some metal hose clamps, run the 3 termination rings through slots in the hose clamp and then tighten it down.

Or something like one of these metal ties:


I don't much like that idea, but we can keep it as an -all else fails- option.

[YoungMichael88]

Well maybe we can go to smaller diameter rings and as small a gauge as we can find to accommodate the cable. Might have to get a little custom on this one.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

The size of the ring will be dictated by the size of the cable.
If we use rings that are too small, the weave will be too tight, and the cable will not fit through the weave. That's why I'll have to change the weave as it tapers down.

[YoungMichael88]

Maybe we can taper down one size to a thin enough gauge that we can then connect short pieces of European 4-1 weave using very small rings to each of the three rings from the inverted round? Should be easy enough to go to that weave I think. They don't need to connect to each other they just need to fit into a heat shrink.

[TheSoulhunter]

How about connecting (loop bend) a piece of wire (similar gauge) to each ring at the end and twist it (spiraling) around the cable?
Should look nice and reduce the diameter enough to fit into heat-shrink or even directly into a USB connector...

[CalmB4tehPwn]

but the worry is that the heat shrink wont hold 2 pounds of rings pulling against it, let along if it gets caught on something and gets a tug. I'd rather not put out a product that'll pull out of the heatshrink after a month. We need a way to anchor it, beside heatshrinks and hot glue.

[TheSoulhunter]

but the worry is that the heat shrink wont hold 2 pounds of rings pulling against it, let along if it gets caught on something and gets a tug. I'd rather not put out a product that'll pull out of the heatshrink after a month. We need a way to anchor it, beside heatshrinks and hot glue.

My solution would anchor it, you just have to make the twisting/spiral tight enough...

[CalmB4tehPwn]

How about connecting (loop bend) a piece of wire (similar gauge) to each ring at the end and twist it (spiraling) around the cable?
Should look nice and reduce the diameter enough to fit into heat-shrink or even directly into a USB connector...

Hmm. This might work a little better. Gives more area for the heatshrink to actually hold onto, and you're right, it would look nice.

Couldn't use Stainless Steel as it has too much resiliency, tendency to spring, but aluminum should work, and would be strong enough to hold.

I like it.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

We're playing post tag. We're on the same page, SH. I think we'll try a few ideas, and this will probably be among the test subjects.  Thank you

[TheSoulhunter]

How about connecting (loop bend) a piece of wire (similar gauge) to each ring at the end and twist it (spiraling) around the cable?
Should look nice and reduce the diameter enough to fit into heat-shrink or even directly into a USB connector...

Hmm. This might work a little better. Gives more area for the heatshrink to actually hold onto, and you're right, it would look nice.

Couldn't use Stainless Steel as it has too much resiliency, tendency to spring, but aluminum should work, and would be strong enough to hold.

I like it.

Perhaps, for flexibility and tight twisting, plated copper wire is a good option?

[YoungMichael88]

Yea that spiral wire idea is probably perfect! You could really tighten that up nice and snug. Great idea!

[Leslieann]

That red, black and silver is gorgeous!
Sure the price is high, but so is the amount of labor involved. It's not over-priced, it's hand made, labor intensive jewelry, how much is your time worth?  If you don't like it, don't buy it.

[YoungMichael88]

Or.....

[MOZ]

I would highly recommend you do not use heatshrink., it will take away the whole feakin' awesome look.

[YoungMichael88]

I would highly recommend you do not use heatshrink., it will take away the whole feakin' awesome look.

What would you use? It may be the only option.

[MOZ]

I would highly recommend you do not use heatshrink., it will take away the whole feakin' awesome look.

What would you use? It may be the only option.

I really like the spring that is there on some  TRSS connectors, if somehow we could weld the jumper rings to similar springs, to complete the chain and then have these connected to the USB, it would look great. One question I have, how is the compression the final chain, as in, if we don't join the cahinmaille to the USB connector at the ends, and pull on the chainmaille, would it pull the USB out of the socket?

http://www.showmecables.com/images/catalog/product/3-5mm-Stereo-Plug-Connector-Metal-1.jpg

[YoungMichael88]

That's a good question. If the chainmaille runs the entire length on the cable and has no room to "compress" any further, would anchoring the chain to the USB end even be necessary?

[CalmB4tehPwn]

A chainmaille weave always has room to compress, unless you install the weave longer than the cable, to it comes compressed, but then there will be absolutely no flexibility in the cable as a whole. Compressing a weave like that locks it in place. Because to bend the cable one way or the other, is compressing that side of the weave, and extending the other, so the weave as to be installed neither at it's maximum or minimum level of compressions, and you will be able to pull the armor one way or the other, on the cable, about an inch, and therefore be able to pull it off of the USB end.

It needs to be anchored.

I don't know how easy it'll be to source metal tip USB ends, with the coils like that. I've never seen them for USB, and they aren't overly popular for audio equipment either because of their tendency to come apart. They're generally used by homebrewers since they're easy to install and gave a professional look without any need for additional tools.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Updated the OP and reserved post. Made the colors a little easier to see and added colors TRL just started offering in Aluminum.
HELL OF A TIME TO BE ALIVE.

I really love that seafoam greem, and think it would pair beautifully with black. Champagne looks nice too. Lavender. All the new colors are amazing.

[MOZ]

Great.

[TheSoulhunter]

Made two mockups from the original image to see how other colors might look...

[jonathanyu]

that's look awesome

[YoungMichael88]

Yay!! I found my tools!! Gonna be chainmailling tonight!!!

[CalmB4tehPwn]

So I ordered the rings needed to test, and I have some potentially bad news. Annodized aluminum doesn't come in all of the sizes that could potentially be out perfect size for this project. So there's a chance we may need to custom order colors from TRL. I'll wait to find out if that's the case, but I know they do custom mandrelling, but there's a charge that goes with it, so we might need to come to a consensus on a couple colors.

Or it might not be an issue at all, and one of the sizes AA comes in is perfect for our project.

We're looking at like a 35-40% chance that we'll need to put in a custom AA order.
I'm thinking if we need to go that route, black will definitely be one of the colors, and my vote is for seafoam.

[YoungMichael88]

This weave is maddening!!! Getting started is sooo frustrating. If you have a short temper, don't even bother haha.

[YoungMichael88]

I think my rings are no good for this. I can only get one captive round in and it then becomes rigid. Bummer.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Aspect ratio is too small. That's too bad. Still should be good for doing standard inverted round, which will give you practice even if it's too small for a cable.

[YoungMichael88]

Aspect ratio is too small. That's too bad. Still should be good for doing standard inverted round, which will give you practice even if it's too small for a cable.

Yea even tho the weave is correct and the rings aren't warped or misaligned, the standard inverted round still looks shoddy. The cages aren't staying nice and triangular due to the thickness of the rings I guess. I'm not too upset since I already had these rings laying around for years. I just wish I knew what size and gauge these are so I know what not to buy next.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

It might look shoddy and... well, floppy, now. But stick a cable in there and it'll form up nicely. There's nothing in it keeping it straight (like the captive rings, for example) but a cable would do it well.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Quick update, I got my test cable, and all the rings I have on hand are either too big or too small, as I had assumed (though the small ones are closer to fitting than I had dreamed)

That being said, all of the various colors should be in play, we just have to wait on my Canada based supplier, to ship it to my US address, so the army can ship it to Korea.

It'll be a minute. Luckily I put the order in last week.

Updates as they come!

[asura]

DIY

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Oh god, can you imagine hand winding coils?

I have a homemade rig at home for coiling jump rings, and it's essentially a cordless drill, mandrel with a hole drilled at the base, and two "towers" to stablize the mandrel.

That's a neat idea for making a couple hundred rings, but if you plan on doing chainmaille with any regularity, you're going to spend as much time making rings as putting them together.

Also, if you want to use stainless steel, you've got a damn nightmare on your hand trying to cut rings out of a coil. I've gone through so many wire snips that it's become so cost prohibitive just in wire cutters alone.

[MOZ]

So when are you getting the first cable done?

[MTManiac]

these look abolutely amazing!

I hope you will be making these for a while, once I get my main driver's color scheme figured out some armor on the cable would make it look sweet!

I can imagine it would be good for people who have cats that like to scratch at cables 

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Still waiting on my supply to come in. It gets hard to estimate time to ship, since its going to customs in canada, to make it to california to be picked up and brought over on boat.

Patience is key to this one. As i get the rings, it wont be but another day or two before I have all the specifics worked out and will be ready to put up a gb on this.

I dont think too many people will take me up on a full cable, so I dont anticipate getting burned out on this. So I'll be offering armoring services for the foreseeable future.

[Elrick]

Patience is key to this one. As i get the rings, it wont be but another day or two before I have all the specifics worked out and will be ready to put up a gb on this.

I dont think too many people will take me up on a full cable, so I dont anticipate getting burned out on this. So I'll be offering armoring services for the foreseeable future.

I just grabbed this last post from you, too tired to read everything (night-shift misery) but have you provided pics on how these beautiful babies can be attached firmly (forever) to the usb micro and usb A connectors?

I will order a 6 footer from you if you can show how it will be permanently attached without ever losing it's position along the length of the cable, that is MOST important to me.

Sorry if you've provided pics but I'm just heading off to bed now.  Too lazy and tired to hunt down any images, yes I'm that useless when it's 4.00AM.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

I haven't provided pics yet. I'm still working on that side. It's the one thing that's holding me up.

Got the rings in today, incidentally, and did find the size we'll be working with. I had to change the weave ever so slightly (where in the example pictures I provided, it shows two captive rings in each section, the ring size that we have that works only fits one captive ring per segment. Minor change, but figured I'd make a note of it.)

Once I get up to full speed on these bad boys, I think I was operating at just shy of a foot per hour (maybe 9-10 inches)
That being said, I'm fair confident we can keep these around $100 for a four footer, and about maybe $120 for a six footer.

I'm playing around with a couple options for keeping the armor in place, and I picked up some nice looking aluminum twisted wire, which I tested a theory out with. Ran a bit of wire through the braiding on the cable, then looped it through one of the rings. Did this for each of the three rings at the end.
I didn't taper down at all, and it was a quick job so it looks a bit shoddy, but I'd say it's a viable option. Tends to pull on the braiding (obviously) and I'm worried that'll cause issues down the road, but it's good to know my first idea wasn't a total crapshoot. I'll be giving a couple other ideas a chance to shine, and seeing which holds best. I like the idea of looping a bit of wire (maybe 2 inches) on each of the three terminal rings, and then twisting them around the whole of the cable, and heat shrinking it in place. I think it has the chance of looking really professional, plus with the twisted wire, should grip the heat tubing very well.

I'd still like to know if it's possible to solder the aluminum wire directly to the USB housing however, because I think that would prove able to withstand the most abuse in the end.

I'll do the maths tomorrow, get a harder price for us to work with, let you guys the costs for the DIY kits, and have pictures up (unfortunately, I didn't want to buy multiple colors when I didn't know what size would, or would not work, so the example is monochrome)

This isn't done, still in prototyping. But things are looking very promising, and we've got a couple viable options for terminating the armor.

So all that said, I'm very happy with how today went. I'm very excited about the coming weeks for this project, and I'm very confident we'll be able to hammer out the details and get this as a marketable product.
Thanks for sticking with me, guys. We're getting there.

Now I'll place the order for my complete cable, should be another 2-3 weeks before that comes in, I'll do up the armor, send it to Mr. Cables over there, and see if we can't finish this off.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Oh, and I'll have shots of this tomorrow, but I'll allay a couple of concerns that were brought up.

The solution was in Anodized Alum. All color options are available in any combination, but I'll limit it to 3 colors per cable. I tend to zone out when I'm working, and I'm not ready to sign myself up for rainbows that I have to pay attention to color order. Though it might be possible to do the outer rings in a single color, and do the captive rings in a gradient rainbow. That is definitely an option, but it would take some extra sorting on my end before I start.

The solution was Anodized Alum, so it is CRAZY light. I've got like a foot and a half done, and it weighs nothing. I didn't measure the cable before I started. I'd meant to, so I can illustrate the difference, but it's seriously not a concern for gravity pulling on a USB end. Not even a big deal.

Bend radius. The armor cuts down the bend radius by about 2/3rds, but this armor seems to have a bend radius creating a loop of about 1.5 inch diameter. With armor, the loop radius (without putting undue stress on the rings) is about 4 inches. Definitely a wider bend radius, but not so much that it wont drape of the end of your desk, or not fit behind your computer. I'll have pictures of the bend radius up tomorrow along with everything else.

[MOZ]

Excited for this, this would look real good. Do you have ideas regarding TRRS connector (3.5mm connector) cable with such a chainmaille

[Elrick]

Once I get up to full speed on these bad boys, I think I was operating at just shy of a foot per hour (maybe 9-10 inches)
That being said, I'm fair confident we can keep these around $100 for a four footer, and about maybe $120 for a six footer.

PLEASE remember that if you are happy to work for that amount of money then no worries about getting the orders in from me.  But this type of activity can mentally destroy most normal people when undertaking this type of work.  Attaching numerous rings together in a perfect symmetrical way is not your average way to earn a living.

Don't cut your asking price thinking that you won't get any orders coming your way.  The real problem for you is when the orders start flooding in and whether or not you can finish everyone's cable in a suitable time frame.

I figured I would jump in first before you start pulling your hair out and climbing the nearest tower with an AP-15.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Don't worry. I plan on doing 6 orders for the first round. The price, I doubt, will stay this low, this price is for the first six people that have faith in me, and want to step up and support this endeavor. Once I figure out if I even want to do any more, I'll stop looking at it like a hobby, and more like a business venture.

Sorry, I promised an update, and didn't come through. I got home from work friday and just... essentially collapsed. I haven't even looked at piece since friday. I'll finish what I've got, place the orders, and do the math and get back to you in the next couple days.

[MOZ]

Take your time champ, we don't want you exhausted before the start.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Nah, the chainmaille isn't exhausting me. right now it's the army.

Okay, I used up all I had for the correct ring size. Here's what we've got.

175 rings per foot.
70 minutes per foot.

Note, always overshoot ring count by about 5% due to variations in color, miscut rings, and slips of my pliers (scratching off the anodization)
These rings come in packs of 250 at $5.05 a pack.

now, for a 6 foot cable we'll do the math here.
1050 rings for 6ft cable, add some for a cushion 5 packs for a 6ft cable. = $25
70 minutes per foot, 10 dollars per hour. 6 times 1h 10m equals 7 hours. = $70
Estimate cost for cable makers time and materials = $30 (rough estimate)
Total: $125 before shipping

Note, I haven't talked in depth about cost for cable. We wont know until we find out how much extra work it takes to terminate the armor, and finish the cable. This cost may rise or fall as we get the prototype complete.

And for a 4 ft cable:
700 rings, 3 packs at $5 each = $15
70m per foot, 4 hours, 40 minutes. (4.6 hours) = $45
Cable cost (same amount of time and work no matter cable length) = $30
Total: $90 before shipping

6 or 4 ft cable with 2ft armor:
350 rings = 2 packs = $10
2hr 20m of work = $25
Same amount of cable work = $30
Total = $65 before shipping

Now, the more rings and supplies we buy, the more we save from TRL. They provide price breaks based on total amount in cart, so colors and even pliers all help for us to meet some of the higher price breaks (keep in mind they supply for people like the guys that made the armor for Lord of the Rings movies, so they get some huge orders) the price breaks are pretty far apart, and don't make a huge difference. We're working with a cheap material, we probably will only hit the first price break. This price break, however, should be enough to cover shipping -to me- and from there, I'll make all 6 armors, and then mail them to be cablemade. And will be mailed individually from there. If you'd like to pay some extra to be moved to the front of the line, and be mailed separately, and before the rest, we can work that out, but it'll be cheaper to mail 'em all together.

For kits, We're looking at for a 6 ft cable:
6.15 per plier = $12.30 (these are great if you plan on doing chainmaille for awhile, and I WHOLEHEARTEDLY SUGGEST that if you plan on doing this entire cable yourself, you get these, or at the VERY LEAST another set of spring loaded, flat nosed pliers.)
Same amount of rings = $25
Instructions and my time = I don't know, yet. 15 bucks? 10? You tell me what you'd like to pay for that.
Total: ~55 before shipping and cable kit

4 ft armor kit
Pliers = 12.30
Rings = 15
instructions = 15
Total: ~40 or 45

And now, on to pictures!

Close up!


Full shot (potato)


Bend radius. It is capable of a comfortable 3 inch bend.


Purple cable, with seafoam green rings. A good example of how well the cable shows through the rings. I think it's turning out quite well. I'll be proud to have this hanging off my keyboard. The first final product, my own cable, will be black and seafoam.

Any questions? Anything I forgot to add?

What d'you think?

[Tym]

That actually looks amazing, although I cannot put out $120 for one, I looks great. I am sure you'll get atleast the 6 orders you are looking for. Good Luck & Good Job!

[GeeNDL82]

amazing

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Tym, for this first round, I also accept keyboards as payment!

[MOZ]

Nice work, Looks real goo.

I have my pliers, tools and cables, what I am looking for is how you plan to terminate the armor, and get 5 bags of bright aluminum rings, possible?

If you don't mind sharing, what rings should I be looking at at TRL for bright aluminum if I want to order directly from them?

[Tym]

Tym, for this first round, I also accept keyboards as payment!

But if I gave you my keyboard I wouldn't have one

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Oh, my bad guys. The ring size I ended up with is 16g 5/16ths. You can find this in most base metals on the site at varying costs. Also, if you want to go with the double captive ring you can go 18g 5/16ths, but this size is not an option for anodized aluminum. Would work fine for steel, but expect a much heavier cable.

If you have everything already but the rings, I would suggest buying from them direct. You wont end up paying shipping two ways, and you wont have to wait an extra damn month for it to get to and from me. If you're going this route, you will not have access to -my- video and instructions, but I am MORE than happy to point you to other tutorial materials. If you want to shoot me 5 bucks on paypal, though, I could send you a PDF File and a link to the video instructions.

And like I said on my other IC, transparency in all things is my goal. I aim to make a profit on this GB, obviously. This has been a source of income for me for several years, and I don't plan on that changing. I'm not trying to rip anybody off, and you'll always know what you're paying for with me. If at any time I neglect to give transparency, please call me on it and I will make it my highest priority to remedy that. I will never rip anybody off here, and so my first goal is to never let anybody -feel- like they're getting ripped off. I aim to make myself approachable at all times, so don't be afraid to ask. Also, for posterity's sake. Don't be afraid to email me at phoenixcreations@hotmail.com

If I do not respond, it means that you probably ended up in the junk box. I try to keep an eye on it, but don't always remember to. If I do not answer your email in 48 hours, send me a PM here, since Geekhack notifications do not end up in my junk box.

I will keep you guys up to date, especially when money is put down, and I will notify you immediately if the army ever decides to take me out to the field or anything crazy happens with North Korea (you guys might not be the -first- to know in the latter case, but I'll update stating that I am unavailable for correspondence for an undisclosed amount of time). Luckily, with my new MOS, even if I end up in the field I will still be able to work on the cables, but if shipping time, and my ability to respond, get delayed I'll let you guys know.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Tym, for this first round, I also accept keyboards as payment!

But if I gave you my keyboard I wouldn't have one

Also, Keycap sets and loose switches. Soldering stations?

[Tym]

Tym, for this first round, I also accept keyboards as payment!

But if I gave you my keyboard I wouldn't have one

Also, Keycap sets and loose switches. Soldering stations?

Loose switches? I could probably de-solder my "Scroll Lock" "Pause" and "End" keys, they're MX blacks, 3-1 trade?

[CalmB4tehPwn]

I know I'll come to regret this later. But I'll have to pass for now. I'll let you know if my desperate need grows so great.

[Tym]

Haha 

[MOZ]

Haha, we trust you completely Michael, and understand this is time consuming and you should get your time's worth.

I love how you are completely flexible, with what each member wants and not the type of person that goes "This is my secret" LOL. Noone on this site is. As for raising questions, don't worry this site is very transparent and that goes two ways, most people are open with what they are making, and don't hesitate in raising questions.

A query, did you try the 18g 5/16ths rings for double captive?

I can get you Cherry MX Blues at very cheap prices (Desoldered from a donor board if you are interested).

I would most likely end up getting directly from TRL and then paying you for your instructions.

Thanks for this highly innovative idea.

Any news on terminating the ends?

[CalmB4tehPwn]

1) A query, did you try the 18g 5/16ths rings for double captive?

2) I can get you Cherry MX Blues at very cheap prices (Desoldered from a donor board if you are interested).

3) I would most likely end up getting directly from TRL and then paying you for your instructions.

4) Any news on terminating the ends?

1) I haven't yet, so if you want to go that route, let me know. I've got the rings on hand, and I'm very confident it'll work, just let me try it out before you make a purchase.

2) Blues are about the only switch I'm not interested in. I've got two blue boards already (MY WASD v2 CAME IN TODAY)

3) Sounds like a plan. You'll hurt on shipping, but the time saved will make up for it. Anybody who wants to go this route, and get the rings and flatnose pliers directly from them, I encourage you to. When I start the GB, I'll compile some resources for tutorials on this weave. Though, I doubt there are any videos on the matter.

4) No news, and there wont be for awhile. There's only so much I can do on my end since I don't have the ends and heat shrink tools. I'll be ordering the rings to make my cable, then sending it off to be tinkered with to find a good finish. It sounds like at least one of the ideas we've come up with should work pretty well, however.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Oh, and it just occurred to me.

Doing 2 colors will make things a bit tricky for pricing. For the 6 ft cable, having all of the outer rings one color, and inner rings another color, comes out to the same price (5 packets, 4 black, 1 seafoam in my case) but if you're doing two colors on a 4 ft cable, giving up a packet of the outer rings, for a new color of inner rings, leaves you with not enough outer rings, and too many captive rings, and you can't finish the weave.

Let me break it down. If I were making myself a 4 ft cable, black outer and seafoam captive, I need 3 packets to make the 700 ring requirement. BUT exactly one quarter of the rings are captive, so it works out to: You need 525 black rings, and 175 seafoam. 2 packets of black rings will leave you short.

NOW, if you're doing a color like black for the outer rings, a color I suspect a good number of people will be buying, and I will probably end up with some leftovers for, then you should be good, BUT if you're doing an odd color, or just not a popular one, OR you want your product short ordered, then you'd have to put up any extra 5 dollars to ensure I have enough rings to do the whole piece.

At that point, you've ordered enough rings for a 5 foot cable, and if you want to put up an extra 10 dollars for my time, I'm happy doing non-standard lengths. Especially if you've already paid for the materials. Just contact me if you want something beside 4 or 6 and I'll get you a custom quote.

Hopefully that made sense to everybody.

[MOZ]

1) A query, did you try the 18g 5/16ths rings for double captive?

2) I can get you Cherry MX Blues at very cheap prices (Desoldered from a donor board if you are interested).

3) I would most likely end up getting directly from TRL and then paying you for your instructions.

4) Any news on terminating the ends?

1) I haven't yet, so if you want to go that route, let me know. I've got the rings on hand, and I'm very confident it'll work, just let me try it out before you make a purchase.

2) Blues are about the only switch I'm not interested in. I've got two blue boards already (MY WASD v2 CAME IN TODAY)

3) Sounds like a plan. You'll hurt on shipping, but the time saved will make up for it. Anybody who wants to go this route, and get the rings and flatnose pliers directly from them, I encourage you to. When I start the GB, I'll compile some resources for tutorials on this weave. Though, I doubt there are any videos on the matter.

4) No news, and there wont be for awhile. There's only so much I can do on my end since I don't have the ends and heat shrink tools. I'll be ordering the rings to make my cable, then sending it off to be tinkered with to find a good finish. It sounds like at least one of the ideas we've come up with should work pretty well, however.

Thanks for the prompt replies.

1) It'd be great if you could, I'm planning on getting these: SXAB18516

2) Sad to hear that, I could've hooked you u real cheap. No problem nonetheless.

3) I know, shipping would hurt, but I would save some time, also, I'll be watching to see how soon the end terminals problem is sorted, because if you plan on doing only 6 cables for round 1, they should be sold quite quickly I'd expect and then we can move onto actual ordering soon.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

1) A query, did you try the 18g 5/16ths rings for double captive?

2) I can get you Cherry MX Blues at very cheap prices (Desoldered from a donor board if you are interested).

3) I would most likely end up getting directly from TRL and then paying you for your instructions.

4) Any news on terminating the ends?

1) I haven't yet, so if you want to go that route, let me know. I've got the rings on hand, and I'm very confident it'll work, just let me try it out before you make a purchase.

2) Blues are about the only switch I'm not interested in. I've got two blue boards already (MY WASD v2 CAME IN TODAY)

3) Sounds like a plan. You'll hurt on shipping, but the time saved will make up for it. Anybody who wants to go this route, and get the rings and flatnose pliers directly from them, I encourage you to. When I start the GB, I'll compile some resources for tutorials on this weave. Though, I doubt there are any videos on the matter.

4) No news, and there wont be for awhile. There's only so much I can do on my end since I don't have the ends and heat shrink tools. I'll be ordering the rings to make my cable, then sending it off to be tinkered with to find a good finish. It sounds like at least one of the ideas we've come up with should work pretty well, however.

Thanks for the prompt replies.

1) It'd be great if you could, I'm planning on getting these: SXAB18516

2) Sad to hear that, I could've hooked you u real cheap. No problem nonetheless.

3) I know, shipping would hurt, but I would save some time, also, I'll be watching to see how soon the end terminals problem is sorted, because if you plan on doing only 6 cables for round 1, they should be sold quite quickly I'd expect and then we can move onto actual ordering soon.

I'll do a quick mock up right now, and post a pic. I forgot the bright alum came in 18g 5/16

[MOZ]

Thank you so much 

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Thank you so much 

BA BAM

Compared to 16g


Close up


as I figured, it's significantly more loose about the cable, as well as more loose in a more general sense. It is definitely an option, and the only other option beside 16g 5/16ths, as all other available ring sizes are either significantly too large, or simply too small to fit around the weave at all.

Don't be afraid to use this ring size. It'll work, but be aware it's a bit more loose. It'd be great for a slightly wider cable.

[MOZ]

Thanks a LOT.

Looks like I will be ordering once we figure out a way for the terminals.

[randompony]

do you know if the rings would scratch desks or other surfaces?
I could imagine that the ends of the rings would have quite sharp edges.

[MOZ]

do you know if the rings would scratch desks or other surfaces?
I could imagine that the ends of the rings would have quite sharp edges.

The ends are saw cut, so there are perfectly circular and id the ends are joined correctly, there should be no edges at all.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

do you know if the rings would scratch desks or other surfaces?
I could imagine that the ends of the rings would have quite sharp edges.

The ends are saw cut, so there are perfectly circular and id the ends are joined correctly, there should be no edges at all.

While you are correct, Moz, that a finished product should not scratch or damage anything, it should be noted that this will not be the case for anybody doing their very first project. It took me years before I was competent enough to make a necklace without a single scratcher. That's just the nature of the beast. Any piece I make will be done with the same level of professionalism as I would put into a piece I expected you to wear on your skin, and you will not scratch your desktop, or anything else, as a result of having a bad close. Now, you might still mar your desk top if something comes down and lands on the cable, it could potentially ding wood pretty good, or leave a mark on a glass top. I think using aluminum, you're probably lessening the worry here. With steel, the amount of force it takes to ding a desk top is less than the amount of force required to bend a steel ring, but with aluminum, that 1/32nd of an inch in which something will give, it's more likely your aluminum ring would over a stainless steel ring. against, say, a nice glossy wood top desk.

TL:DR
If you do it yourself, there's a potential for scratches. If I do it, there is not. If you're super careful, and spend like twice as much time making it perfect, you can make a good a good cable, but it simply will not compare to mine if you don't have the hours logged, and it will not have the same resale value, that's for sure.

[MOZ]

Thanks Michael, I think it was implied that one had to be a pro like you to close the rings perfectly, and if we did the armor ourselves, bye bye table

[thoere]

I would want one if it weren't for the price... sorry.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Thanks Michael, I think it was implied that one had to be a pro like you to close the rings perfectly, and if we did the armor ourselves, bye bye table

It's not as bad as all of that. You can get it pretty good IF you don't get frustrated and just want it done and over with. Plus, when closing a ring, the "sharp edge" will be sticking out to one side or another, not out of the top of the ring, and since the nature of this weave, the only part of an ring actually touching the table or desk top, is the top of the ring (two alternating rows, the top of one row of rings keeps the side of the alternate side from touching). So even if you don't do a very good job, your precious hardware should still be relatively safe, especially if you're not jerking on your keyboard.  It's be a bit of a discomfort to touch, because no matter how good it might look, your finger pads are made to grip and hold on to the little things in life, so it'll grip and hold onto ever misaligned ring.

If you're not being abusive to your keyboard, or your desk, then you're relatively safe. It's not it's nature to scratch things up, the chainmaille has to meet certain and rare conditions for that to happen.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

I would want one if it weren't for the price... sorry.

Yeah, it's definitely not a product for everybody. I understand that. I'm just hoping it finds a niche out there. Also, that's what learning and making it yourself is for!

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Alright, guys.

Decided to do some math on figuring out bulk discounts.
Looks like at
$100 = 10% off
$250 = 15% off
$500 = 20% off

Now, with 6 orders, we're already most of the way to 15% off. Throw a couple kits on top, and we'll hit it. I have no delusions about shooting for 20% off, but who knows eh?
I'm thinking, instead of offering you guys a 3 dollar discount on $25 worth of materials, I would total up the discount amounts, and donate that to GH after all is said and done.
What do you guys think?

[MOZ]

Sounds good to me and most members are generally willing to donate to GH quite generously.

[gruener_Salat]

Wow, looks tempting. I think I should get one for GH60.

[Winther]

This would be soo cool if I had 200usd for a cable. But the idea is really interesting and cool!

[CalmB4tehPwn]

UPDATE

Man, it feels good to say that again.

So, as most of you probably already know, I have not been very active on the forums for awhile, but now that I'm getting back into keyboards, and my hiccup in life is seems more like a speed bump than a road block, I decided to actually do something with this.

I didn't have any ideas for termination this morning, but it's been a significant amount of time since I did any chainmaille, and I was itching to get back into it. So I did. Just started building the armor, thinking I'd worry about termination later.

Lucky for me, sometimes inspiration comes in planning, and other times, like today, it comes in execution.

So, I introduce to you the first actually viable and if I might say so, pretty idea for termination.

Okay, so I modded the plastic housing on the USB end. Drilled two small holes on one half of it, as seen below, and then shaved off some of the other half. My hands hurt, and I'm tired, so it's not perfect (as you can see in the side shot) and I broke the clips holding it in place trying to take it off, but this is definitely going to work. Trust me, I'm a perfectionist when it's for a customer, so anything you get from me would look a thousand times better than this.


Bottom side, showing connection


Another shot of the drilled holes and rings passing through them


Top side, where it looks as though the weave simply just... ends. (all the work is on the other side)


Ugly shot from the side (busted clips, and a not very clean job)

I had to use a different size rings, and you obviously only need four of these, so ordering a pack of 100 from theringlord is not the best option. This is a case where doing a GB for kits would definitely help out, and I could just throw like 15 in each kit (give you plenty to screw up on, it's a tight fit, prone to scratching and bending the ring if you're not extra careful getting it in there)

Now, the biggest drawback here is... This may be significantly harder for a mini usb terminal. I plan on ordering some housings (if someone can give me a link, or an actual term to search, it would help a lot) and playing around with it, but I am definitely making all of my personal keyboards with a standard female USB port in the back of the keyboard, so it's a great option for me.

Now, please. Questions!

Also, here's a bonus.
Lunch:


Spicy Lamb Kebab Wrap, with sweet pickles.
Absolutely delicious.

[Pacifist]

shieetttt

[MOZ]

How about drilling holes in both top and bottom housing and using maybe the same rings or slightly larger rings. I think it would be a better fight. That said, I am still slightly wary of how sturdy those plastic housings are and will able to hold their own when the cable is tugged at.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

The housing is too thick, and there isn't enough room to drill a larger hole in this particular housing. Bigger rings wouldn't work.

Though, I will assure you that those little aluminum rings will bend long before that housing breaks. It's definitely sturdier than it looks.

[Elrick]

The housing is too thick, and there isn't enough room to drill a larger hole in this particular housing. Bigger rings wouldn't work.

Though, I will assure you that those little aluminum rings will bend long before that housing breaks. It's definitely sturdier than it looks.

Okay, just finalize the ring attachment because it does look a little bit "Ghetto" and if you want everyone to pile into this try and polish up the ring outlet from their designated holes.  The bottom part of the plastic attachment needs to be carved into a more rounded shape to fit with the ring attachment coming in from the top section of the housing.

If you can further refine the attachment I'll be ready to place some orders for these Chainmaille babies  .

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Oh, no. That was definitely not a final product. Just got excited that I had figured out a solution, that I wanted to post about it.

It will be much, much cleaner once I get some housings on hand to work out the best way to make it look nice.

[Elrick]

It will be much, much cleaner once I get some housings on hand to work out the best way to make it look nice.

Brilliant to hear.  Of course the other end of that chainmaille is what's keeping everyone on their toes to see.  When you find a solution to finally finish that, then the orders should rain in like a south korean monsoon.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

Well, once I get some Mini-USB housings on hand, the solution might be readily apparent.