Author Topic: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions (Read 1195106 times)

Seirin-Blu · « **Reply #6150 on:** Tue, 25 July 2023, 13:55:59 »

Quote from: ItIsWritten on Tue, 25 July 2023, 13:45:55

Quote from: Rhienfo on Tue, 25 July 2023, 12:47:23
Quote from: clay on Tue, 25 July 2023, 12:23:03
Here's my unpopular opinion. I think 35% and 40% keyboards are absolutely ridiculous. If people want to go that small they might as well go for a 1-key, where pressing the sole key will open an on-screen keyboard menu where you can use the mouse to select which letter/number you want. I know it involves some complicated programming to achieve that but if they want small and inconvenient here is the smallest and most inconvenient keyboard they should get into

I see 40s as trimming the fat of a keyboard. Like with layers, you can get pretty much the same functionality of a tkl with way less space, however some people like the fat and choose to keep it. I don't really use anything above a 75% because I don't find f keys useful when I can just layer it. It also makes you reach less as it's far less strain on the fingers to press fn and q rather than just pressing the one key weirdly enough.

but of course the best thing about 40s is that you save time on breaking in and lubing switches lol, which makes me want to buy an ergo 40 one day.
I see your point about reaching with touch typing, but you can do layers on a full size as well, so that's not really a justification. What I personally don't like about small keyboards is that you have to use layers also when your fingers are not in the touch typing position. You may have to use F keys or function keys when you are working in Photoshop e.g., and then a full size or TKL is much handier.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G986B met Tapatalk

You don’t have to if you have tap dance setup. Of course it will take some configuring but tapdance allows 4 different actions with a single key (tap, double tap, hold, tap and hold). That can be done while your hands are still in touch typing position. Combos also exist and allow for a bunch more keybinds without needing to move your hands.

ItIsWritten · « **Reply #6151 on:** Tue, 25 July 2023, 14:07:17 »

Quote from: Seirin-Blu on Tue, 25 July 2023, 13:55:59

Quote from: ItIsWritten on Tue, 25 July 2023, 13:45:55
Quote from: Rhienfo on Tue, 25 July 2023, 12:47:23
Quote from: clay on Tue, 25 July 2023, 12:23:03
Here's my unpopular opinion. I think 35% and 40% keyboards are absolutely ridiculous. If people want to go that small they might as well go for a 1-key, where pressing the sole key will open an on-screen keyboard menu where you can use the mouse to select which letter/number you want. I know it involves some complicated programming to achieve that but if they want small and inconvenient here is the smallest and most inconvenient keyboard they should get into

I see 40s as trimming the fat of a keyboard. Like with layers, you can get pretty much the same functionality of a tkl with way less space, however some people like the fat and choose to keep it. I don't really use anything above a 75% because I don't find f keys useful when I can just layer it. It also makes you reach less as it's far less strain on the fingers to press fn and q rather than just pressing the one key weirdly enough.

but of course the best thing about 40s is that you save time on breaking in and lubing switches lol, which makes me want to buy an ergo 40 one day.
I see your point about reaching with touch typing, but you can do layers on a full size as well, so that's not really a justification. What I personally don't like about small keyboards is that you have to use layers also when your fingers are not in the touch typing position. You may have to use F keys or function keys when you are working in Photoshop e.g., and then a full size or TKL is much handier.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G986B met Tapatalk

You don’t have to if you have tap dance setup. Of course it will take some configuring but tapdance allows 4 different actions with a single key (tap, double tap, hold, tap and hold). That can be done while your hands are still in touch typing position. Combos also exist and allow for a bunch more keybinds without needing to move your hands.

But the point is when not in touch typing position. I rarely use the function keys when touch typing and rarely touch type when doing actions that need the function keys. So the thing is that a smaller board doesn't really solve anything. It saves some space, but my desk is so large that I don't need that.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G986B met Tapatalk

bkrownd · « **Reply #6152 on:** Wed, 26 July 2023, 19:16:56 »

I throw up a little every time I hear the word "layers" in a keyboard discussion. but hey, that's just me.

Seirin-Blu · « **Reply #6153 on:** Thu, 27 July 2023, 12:35:01 »

I mean you use layers whenever you type a capital letter or symbol on the num row, but I guess you can see what’s on the next layer of those so it’s a little different I guess.

Sup · « **Reply #6154 on:** Thu, 27 July 2023, 12:53:32 »

Quote from: bkrownd on Wed, 26 July 2023, 19:16:56

I throw up a little every time I hear the word "layers" in a keyboard discussion. but hey, that's just me.

Don't tell bro that he using layers daily on his phone otherwise he will throw up every time he uses it.

CaesarAZealad · « **Reply #6155 on:** Thu, 27 July 2023, 16:41:02 »

Quote from: Sup on Thu, 27 July 2023, 12:53:32

Quote from: bkrownd on Wed, 26 July 2023, 19:16:56

I throw up a little every time I hear the word "layers" in a keyboard discussion. but hey, that's just me.

Don't tell bro that he using layers daily on his phone otherwise he will throw up every time he uses it.

Just use layers bro

bkrownd · « **Reply #6156 on:** Thu, 27 July 2023, 17:33:26 »

Quote from: Sup on Thu, 27 July 2023, 12:53:32

Don't tell bro that he using layers daily on his phone otherwise he will throw up every time he uses it.

Not sure what you're referring to, but using cellphones does make me throw up for various other reasons.

bkrownd · « **Reply #6157 on:** Thu, 27 July 2023, 17:42:58 »

Quote from: Seirin-Blu on Thu, 27 July 2023, 12:35:01

I mean you use layers whenever you type a capital letter or symbol on the num row, but I guess you can see what’s on the next layer of those so it’s a little different I guess.

Indeed, capitals create a practical limitation due to the number of keys you can reach from home row. I don't enjoy holding shift to create a capital letter or number-row symbols either, but I don't see an obvious way around that one. Fortunately most programs (hopefully all) are written so you don't have to key-combination any of the shift-activated characters at the same time. Mostly thanks to gaming it is however common to have to do things like hold WASD/HJKL/arrows and hit various other keys rapidly.

Rhienfo · « **Reply #6158 on:** Thu, 27 July 2023, 17:49:26 »

Quote from: CaesarAZealad on Thu, 27 July 2023, 16:41:02

//media.printables.com/media/prints/361107/images/3058616_9ea2a164-0f11-45eb-906c-f8baca2d629a/thumbs/inside/640x480/jpg/pain27bl.webp[/img]
Just use layers bro

Don't diss the pain27 it's perfectly usable, and the best australian keyboard ever produced

CaesarAZealad · « **Reply #6159 on:** Thu, 27 July 2023, 18:21:29 »

Quote from: Rhienfo on Thu, 27 July 2023, 17:49:26

Quote from: CaesarAZealad on Thu, 27 July 2023, 16:41:02
//media.printables.com/media/prints/361107/images/3058616_9ea2a164-0f11-45eb-906c-f8baca2d629a/thumbs/inside/640x480/jpg/pain27bl.webp[/img]
Just use layers bro

Don't diss the pain27 it's perfectly usable, and the best australian keyboard ever produced

Just use layers bro.

Rhienfo · « **Reply #6160 on:** Fri, 28 July 2023, 10:23:04 »

Quote from: CaesarAZealad on Thu, 27 July 2023, 18:21:29

Show Image

Just use layers bro.

Yeah perfectly useable to me

Subdromat · « **Reply #6161 on:** Wed, 16 August 2023, 02:18:02 »

While looking for an awkward switch with some reputation it has come to Cherry MX green. That RGB variant was hard to find. Not sure but vendors dont offer them anymore (RGB variant), maybe they out of life. Happy got 110 pieces for some clicky project.

tp4tissue · « **Reply #6162 on:** Thu, 17 August 2023, 09:21:42 »

Quote from: Subdromat on Wed, 16 August 2023, 02:18:02

Show Image

While looking for an awkward switch with some reputation it has come to Cherry MX green. That RGB variant was hard to find. Not sure but vendors dont offer them anymore (RGB variant), maybe they out of life. Happy got 110 pieces for some clicky project.

They look like little baggies of droogs. LOL

VaporKeebs · « **Reply #6163 on:** Mon, 11 September 2023, 04:05:54 »

Any layout that reduces the need for stabilizers is superior to layouts that require more stabilizers.

mohawk1367 · « **Reply #6164 on:** Wed, 13 September 2023, 08:01:24 »

Quote from: VaporKeebs on Mon, 11 September 2023, 04:05:54

Any layout that reduces the need for stabilizers is superior to layouts that require more stabilizers.

IMO more comfortable and convenient layout > number of stabilizers lol
weird opinion but definitely fits the thread

Mandan · « **Reply #6165 on:** Thu, 14 September 2023, 19:39:35 »

My IBM 84-key board now has 89 keys. I split both Shifts and Insert in half, and the Big-Ass Enter into an extra 1u and 1.5u, and a 1.25u Enter. The big 2u "+" key is now an Enter, using the wire-stabilized key from an early Model M board. That and the space bar are the only stabilized keys on the keyboard.

The 1.25u Enter was a "just because I could" thing; I planned to use a 2u ANSI Model M Enter key. But the tiny Enter turned out to be not-a-problem. For that matter, the XT boards had a 1u Enter on a stepped 3u shield.

I've thought about splitting the 2u Enter on the cursor pad, but I'm fond of karate-chopping it, and I probably use it at least as much as the main Enter key.

matt-taco · « **Reply #6166 on:** Sun, 24 September 2023, 19:03:34 »

XT or 96 key layouts are 1000% the best layouts. If you get good with it, you won't have to use a mouse a mouse for most tasks, AND you don't have to move your wrist too!!!!

The only downside is getting used to toggling the numlock and the new position for the nav keys.

ItIsWritten · « **Reply #6167 on:** Mon, 25 September 2023, 03:36:22 »

Quote from: matt-taco on Sun, 24 September 2023, 19:03:34

XT or 96 key layouts are 1000% the best layouts. If you get good with it, you won't have to use a mouse a mouse for most tasks, AND you don't have to move your wrist too!!!!

The only downside is getting used to toggling the numlock and the new position for the nav keys.

So they can be improved if they have a downside?

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G986B met Tapatalk

matt-taco · « **Reply #6168 on:** Mon, 25 September 2023, 08:45:30 »

Quote from: ItIsWritten on Mon, 25 September 2023, 03:36:22

Quote from: matt-taco on Sun, 24 September 2023, 19:03:34
XT or 96 key layouts are 1000% the best layouts. If you get good with it, you won't have to use a mouse a mouse for most tasks, AND you don't have to move your wrist too!!!!

The only downside is getting used to toggling the numlock and the new position for the nav keys.
So they can be improved if they have a downside?

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G986B met Tapatalk

What I meant by downside, was, a steep learning curve. Once you get over it, it is not a problem

TomahawkLabs · « **Reply #6169 on:** Thu, 05 October 2023, 08:35:18 »

My unpopular opinion: Soldered switch PCBs are superior to hot swap. Hot swap is great for if you want to try out new switches or are into modding switches, but soldering provides additional mechanical fastening allowing for an easier time removing keycaps and doing general cleaning.

mohawk1367 · « **Reply #6170 on:** Thu, 05 October 2023, 08:37:19 »

Quote from: TomahawkLabs on Thu, 05 October 2023, 08:35:18

My unpopular opinion: Soldered switch PCBs are superior to hot swap. Hot swap is great for if you want to try out new switches or are into modding switches, but soldering provides additional mechanical fastening allowing for an easier time removing keycaps and doing general cleaning.

How does it make it easier to clean?

Rhienfo · « **Reply #6171 on:** Thu, 05 October 2023, 09:50:43 »

Quote from: TomahawkLabs on Thu, 05 October 2023, 08:35:18

My unpopular opinion: Soldered switch PCBs are superior to hot swap. Hot swap is great for if you want to try out new switches or are into modding switches, but soldering provides additional mechanical fastening allowing for an easier time removing keycaps and doing general cleaning.

Agree with this, It also makes boards sound better (I'm not 100% sure why, but I think it has to do with switches having gaps in between the sockets which sound can go through, rather than soldering which doesn't have those gaps)

Plus it's slightly cheaper and fun to do, for any custom I don't know why you wouldn't but that's just me. You probably should have a hotswap board for modding switches as you said anyway.

TomahawkLabs · « **Reply #6172 on:** Thu, 05 October 2023, 14:43:00 »

Quote from: mohawk1367 on Thu, 05 October 2023, 08:37:19

Quote from: TomahawkLabs on Thu, 05 October 2023, 08:35:18
My unpopular opinion: Soldered switch PCBs are superior to hot swap. Hot swap is great for if you want to try out new switches or are into modding switches, but soldering provides additional mechanical fastening allowing for an easier time removing keycaps and doing general cleaning.

How does it make it easier to clean?

I claim it is easier to clean because I can quickly take off the keycaps as the switches stay in the plate and PCB because it is mechanically fastened. On nearly every hot swap keyboard I have used or tried some of the switches will release from the plate before the keycap is pulled off. Spending the extra time removing the cap from the loose switch and putting the switch back adds extra work.

I do think that every enthusiast who is into modding/trying new things should have a hot swap board as a test bed.

Rob27shred · « **Reply #6173 on:** Thu, 05 October 2023, 19:49:31 »

Quote from: Rhienfo on Thu, 05 October 2023, 09:50:43

Quote from: TomahawkLabs on Thu, 05 October 2023, 08:35:18
My unpopular opinion: Soldered switch PCBs are superior to hot swap. Hot swap is great for if you want to try out new switches or are into modding switches, but soldering provides additional mechanical fastening allowing for an easier time removing keycaps and doing general cleaning.

Agree with this, It also makes boards sound better (I'm not 100% sure why, but I think it has to do with switches having gaps in between the sockets which sound can go through, rather than soldering which doesn't have those gaps)

Plus it's slightly cheaper and fun to do, for any custom I don't know why you wouldn't but that's just me. You probably should have a hotswap board for modding switches as you said anyway.

I agree with this for the most part as well. Although, hotswap PCBs have come a long way from the "you'll get one fixed layout & like it days". Coupled with a well made plate the switches will stay put so I'm way more likely to get hotswap PCB with a custom nowadays. If a board turns out to be special to me in some way then I'll for sure make a soldered build for it. Overall I prefer soldered, but hotswap has grown on me a little after a couple good experiences with it finally.

bkrownd · « **Reply #6174 on:** Fri, 06 October 2023, 04:29:23 »

*shrug* I find hot swap keyboards convenient for cracking one out of the box, throwing 60-100 favorite switches and new keycaps on, and getting instant satisfaction. (no, I didn't scare up the energy to lube anything except the stabilizers)

LogLab · « **Reply #6175 on:** Tue, 10 October 2023, 23:07:00 »

Quote from: keymaster on Fri, 07 November 2014, 00:09:29

60% keyboards aren't practical, even with the programmable layers. I liken it to people who build their linux distros "from the ground up". They're just senselessly creating a rabbit hole of unnecessary work.

For me I feel it's way more comfortable to use a layer I activate with my thumb to have the arrow keys right under my homerow than to have to do the movement of my hand from the homerow down to the bottom and back to the homerow, it gets tiring esp with arthritis. I use 42 keys tho as a daily driver so thats a whole nother discussion LOL

Edit: Just realized I replied to a 9 year old comment lmfao. Point still stands thooooo

ItIsWritten · « **Reply #6176 on:** Wed, 11 October 2023, 01:55:53 »

Quote from: LogLab on Tue, 10 October 2023, 23:07:00

Quote from: keymaster on Fri, 07 November 2014, 00:09:29
60% keyboards aren't practical, even with the programmable layers. I liken it to people who build their linux distros "from the ground up". They're just senselessly creating a rabbit hole of unnecessary work.

For me I feel it's way more comfortable to use a layer I activate with my thumb to have the arrow keys right under my homerow than to have to do the movement of my hand from the homerow down to the bottom and back to the homerow, it gets tiring esp with arthritis. I use 42 keys tho as a daily driver so thats a whole nother discussion LOL

Edit: Just realized I replied to a 9 year old comment lmfao. Point still stands thooooo

The thing is though that that would work on larger size keyboards as well. So you don't need a smaller keyboard to do that. But it's only practical if you're touch typing. If your hands are AFK and you quickly need to find a specific button all the smaller sizes make that harder.

clay · « **Reply #6177 on:** Sun, 12 November 2023, 13:20:54 »

Quote from: CaesarAZealad on Thu, 27 July 2023, 16:41:02

Quote from: Sup on Thu, 27 July 2023, 12:53:32
Quote from: bkrownd on Wed, 26 July 2023, 19:16:56

I throw up a little every time I hear the word "layers" in a keyboard discussion. but hey, that's just me.

Don't tell bro that he using layers daily on his phone otherwise he will throw up every time he uses it.
Show Image

Just use layers bro

Imagine a 1-key keyboard, just like a switch and keycap keychain just that it functions as a real keyboard. Everything is a layer. Press the single key and an on screen menu shall pop out. Move your mouse to select the letter/number/symbol you want. Because hey, we like smaller keyboards since our 50 inch monitor has taken all the space on our airplane tray table.

P.S. jokes aside I hope I didnt offend anyone

ItIsWritten · « **Reply #6178 on:** Mon, 13 November 2023, 04:48:05 »

Quote from: clay on Sun, 12 November 2023, 13:20:54

Quote from: CaesarAZealad on Thu, 27 July 2023, 16:41:02
Quote from: Sup on Thu, 27 July 2023, 12:53:32
Quote from: bkrownd on Wed, 26 July 2023, 19:16:56

I throw up a little every time I hear the word "layers" in a keyboard discussion. but hey, that's just me.

Don't tell bro that he using layers daily on his phone otherwise he will throw up every time he uses it.
Show Image

Just use layers bro

Imagine a 1-key keyboard, just like a switch and keycap keychain just that it functions as a real keyboard. Everything is a layer. Press the single key and an on screen menu shall pop out. Move your mouse to select the letter/number/symbol you want. Because hey, we like smaller keyboards since our 50 inch monitor has taken all the space on our airplane tray table.

P.S. jokes aside I hope I didnt offend anyone

Just use a hall effect switch with 200 levels...

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G986B met Tapatalk

funkmon · « **Reply #6179 on:** Mon, 13 November 2023, 05:57:25 »

Quote

Just use a hall effect switch with 200 levels...

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G986B met Tapatalk

This is very pleasing to me. It's like one of those bad UI battles. Can we send one of these to Chryros for a Waning video?

wjrii · « **Reply #6180 on:** Mon, 13 November 2023, 08:46:33 »

Quote from: funkmon on Mon, 13 November 2023, 05:57:25

Quote
Just use a hall effect switch with 200 levels...

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G986B met Tapatalk

This is very pleasing to me. It's like one of those bad UI battles. Can we send one of these to Chryros for a Waning video?

See, the approach is all wrong here. We've already made the move to the onscreen, so it's time for AESTHETICS. I suggest a zero-key model with a classic 104-key footprint.

Rhienfo · « **Reply #6181 on:** Mon, 13 November 2023, 21:59:55 »

Quote from: wjrii on Mon, 13 November 2023, 08:46:33

See, the approach is all wrong here. We've already made the move to the onscreen, so it's time for AESTHETICS. I suggest a zero-key model with a classic 104-key footprint.

we need fake resin to accompany that.

Exquite · « **Reply #6182 on:** Wed, 15 November 2023, 20:08:30 »

Quote from: appleonama on Fri, 07 November 2014, 00:54:36

1. Just about every keycap set designed on pimpmykeyboard is ugly. When I see pictures of these keycaps on someones keyboards looks even worse.

2. SA keyset is horrible to type on and looks horrible.

3. I think model M and any other so called "vintage" keyboard is stupid.

4. If you think 60% keyboards are not practical well 40% are even worse. They seem like a major handicap.

5. I hate gamer looking or branded keyboards (razer, corsair, logitech, ect.)

I agree keysets designed by pimp is ugly for many people but SA does have many excellent sets such as SA SONG, ESPRESSO, and VIlEBLOOM. As someone started with cherry profile, SA looks quite weird initially. However, later on, I realized some colorways do fit the big fat legend and tall profile. The typing feel of SA SP also enhances any switches. Making tactile more tactile, linear more linear. The feel is also more smooth than gmk.

funkmon · « **Reply #6183 on:** Wed, 15 November 2023, 21:27:55 »

That quote is from...a long time ago.

But also...how the heck does he think Model M is stupid?! appleonama get back in here and explain yourself.

bkrownd · « **Reply #6184 on:** Thu, 16 November 2023, 00:49:39 »

SA is a satisfying manly man's door-slamming solid gemstone keycap profile. Feels so good.

Cherry is like typing on cornflakes, and tastes worse.

Aaaaaand, if you didn't learn to type on a Selectric II your opinion is wimpy.

mohawk1367 · « **Reply #6185 on:** Thu, 16 November 2023, 07:49:52 »

1 and 2 are both true, but that the 3rd one is crazy... not everyone was around in the mesozoic.

Exquite · « **Reply #6186 on:** Thu, 16 November 2023, 11:38:46 »

Quote from: jdcarpe on Fri, 07 November 2014, 08:24:01

1. DSA is terrible. I hate using it, and won't buy from any group buys with DSA profile.

2. SA profile (sculptured, not uniform) is fun! They are my second favorite, after Cherry Corp or GMK thick ABS.

3. PBT is all hype. I prefer thick ABS by a wide margin. I can use PBT, of course, but I prefer thick ABS. Much, much prefer double shot ABS over dyesub PBT.

4. ErgoClears are just okay, but stock clears are better.

SA SP keycaps are really thick. I love that rigid feeling when typing.

wjrii · « **Reply #6187 on:** Fri, 17 November 2023, 13:13:32 »

Some people in the hobby are trying desperately to recreate the typing experience of a membrane board; they just don't realize it. The first Youtuber to pull together a GB for an aluminum case and Cherry-stem sliders on a "unified switch PCB with silent Topre-esque elastopolymer light linear actuators with solder-free one-shot swapping" is gonna make bank.

bkrownd · « **Reply #6188 on:** Fri, 17 November 2023, 16:02:31 »

That's just insane in the membrane...

Greywolf · « **Reply #6189 on:** Mon, 20 November 2023, 16:17:21 »

I just want to know why it is so damnably hard to find a keyboard which is/has
• mechanical switches
• TKL form factor
• UNIX key layout (i.e. ~` and |\ where Backspace always is these days, Backspace over the Return key, Control left of A, and Esc at the corner bordering TAB and !1)

I do not understand why this is not an appealing/desired layout, and it's really frustrating not to be able to find one. I mean, I suppose I could try to make one...

mohawk1367 · « **Reply #6190 on:** Tue, 21 November 2023, 06:40:12 »

Quote from: Greywolf on Mon, 20 November 2023, 16:17:21

I just want to know why it is so damnably hard to find a keyboard which is/has
• mechanical switches
• TKL form factor
• UNIX key layout (i.e. ~` and |\ where Backspace always is these days, Backspace over the Return key, Control left of A, and Esc at the corner bordering TAB and !1)

I do not understand why this is not an appealing/desired layout, and it's really frustrating not to be able to find one. I mean, I suppose I could try to make one...

most unix ppl just use hhkb or remap

Rhienfo · « **Reply #6191 on:** Wed, 22 November 2023, 23:24:07 »

Quote from: Greywolf on Mon, 20 November 2023, 16:17:21

I just want to know why it is so damnably hard to find a keyboard which is/has
• mechanical switches
• TKL form factor
• UNIX key layout (i.e. ~` and |\ where Backspace always is these days, Backspace over the Return key, Control left of A, and Esc at the corner bordering TAB and !1)

I do not understand why this is not an appealing/desired layout, and it's really frustrating not to be able to find one. I mean, I suppose I could try to make one...

It's because regular ansi is more popular, and a lot of people find that split backspace looks weird on a tkl.

Most solderable tkl pcbs have the option for it so you could always solder the layout.

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Author Topic: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions (Read 1195106 times)