Author Topic: [IC] JD40 40% boards: metal, plastic, and a celebration of smallfry's life (Read 30833 times)

mkawa · « **Reply #50 on:** Sat, 10 May 2014, 16:41:58 »

not really. see: all the original PCB mounted pokers with ABS case. the PCB flexed like crazy and was a major problem point for that board.

dante · « **Reply #51 on:** Sat, 10 May 2014, 16:48:50 »

Quote from: mkawa on Sat, 10 May 2014, 16:41:58

not really. see: all the original PCB mounted pokers with ABS case. the PCB flexed like crazy and was a major problem point for that board.

The Poker Mk1 was a cheap SOB - which they corrected (somewhat) on the Pure. That being said, Vortex product in general isn't exactly stellar quality. Even the Cherry G80-11900 is more stable for a PCB mounted application and it is much larger. Unfortunately PCB mount style has started dying out and it's a shame because they do give a very unique feel and sound.

mkawa · « **Reply #52 on:** Sat, 10 May 2014, 17:00:36 »

standard pcb thickness is 1.6mm, and the material is always some variant of FR4/G10. the only way to make a pcb more rigid is to increase the tie points to something more rigid. the cherry pcb mount boards basically have a pcb flush with a large plastic plate behind it with a whole bunch of tie points. metal plates basically seal the deal. i had two pokers that i plated with aluminum plates up top and 12mm plates behind, and that was basically the only way i could get the poker pcb to stop flexing.

Razor Lotus · « **Reply #53 on:** Sat, 10 May 2014, 17:28:02 »

Quote from: dante on Sat, 10 May 2014, 16:48:50

Quote from: mkawa on Sat, 10 May 2014, 16:41:58
not really. see: all the original PCB mounted pokers with ABS case. the PCB flexed like crazy and was a major problem point for that board.

The Poker Mk1 was a cheap SOB - which they corrected (somewhat) on the Pure. That being said, Vortex product in general isn't exactly stellar quality. Even the Cherry G80-11900 is more stable for a PCB mounted application and it is much larger. Unfortunately PCB mount style has started dying out and it's a shame because they do give a very unique feel and sound.

I'm using a Pure now with stock ABS and I'm trying to come up with an onomatopoeia for the sound and the best i can do is that it gives a tak tak tak tak sound as I bottom out repeatedly while pressing B.

That's an "a" as in how you would pronounce "arh" in "ark", not "ay" as in "tray"

Pacifist · « **Reply #54 on:** Sat, 10 May 2014, 17:29:42 »

interested

will be an interesting keyboard to carry everywhere

taylordcraig · « **Reply #55 on:** Sat, 10 May 2014, 18:07:17 »

I'd be in for caps and a Ti plate.

Grendel · « **Reply #56 on:** Sat, 10 May 2014, 18:59:53 »

I got a 40% proto I loaded w/ clears w/o a plate. Keep pulling the switches apart when trying to get a cap off... Wouldn't want this w/o a plate

feizor · « **Reply #57 on:** Sat, 10 May 2014, 19:00:41 »

I am also very interested.

mooswa · « **Reply #58 on:** Sat, 10 May 2014, 20:12:32 »

Definitely in.

mkawa · « **Reply #59 on:** Sat, 10 May 2014, 21:01:10 »

Quote from: taylordcraig on Sat, 10 May 2014, 18:07:17

I'd be in for caps and a Ti plate.

you'll need to find a buyer for the bottom plate if you don't want it. we will be cutting these in matched pairs.

note: check out the currently running buy in artisan services if you only want a top plate. we are about to cut a single sheet with any design you can fit on the sheet, nested for cost savings. that buy is also utilizing a cutter that has a press bender with titanium friendly tooling if you want a full bent-flange 40% one-piece case.

Melvang · « **Reply #60 on:** Sat, 10 May 2014, 22:31:16 »

If I may ask, what exactly is going to separate the top and bottom plate? Is there going to be another layer or spacers?

Elrick · « **Reply #61 on:** Sun, 11 May 2014, 02:59:03 »

What I read so far is quite amazing, dedicating a unique keyboard to Smallfry here.

So no one has envisioned the casing yet on what a 40% keyboard would look like? If anyone will produce an illustration you guys need to etch or carve his name into the casing so everyone knows what it is.

Nothing more decent than seeing Smallfry's name emblazoned upon this keyboard, much like LZ-GH's is on their keyboard casings. People need to see his name either on the top plate were the keys are situated or on the sides/back plate.

That way when someone wants to BUY a Smallfry everyone here know's what they mean (besides if it worked for Karl Benz naming his cars after his deceased daughter then it will work for Nathan)

.

mkawa · « **Reply #62 on:** Sun, 11 May 2014, 03:20:14 »

JD has drawings for acrylic spacer layers, but i'm leaning toward spacers on the fasteners. i'm kind of tired of layered acrylic, even if they're just spacers, and spacers on the fasteners allows for building an angle into the keyboard itself.

further, the spacers could be made out of cut to length polyelastomers: sorbothane carries bushings in various lengths as stock items, and polyurethane extrusions are inexpensive as well. energy absorbing PU springs instead of rigid polycarbonate, and titanium instead of aluminum would make for the deadened feeling of a large heavy keyboard in a very tiny and light one.

tbc · « **Reply #63 on:** Sun, 11 May 2014, 05:04:39 »

can youndraw a picture? i'm really not sure what you're talking about

CPTBadAss · « **Reply #64 on:** Mon, 12 May 2014, 11:53:48 »

Quote from: tbc on Sun, 11 May 2014, 05:04:39

can youndraw a picture? i'm really not sure what you're talking about

Picture from Sifo

See the pink part? The layers mkawa is talking about is that pink part which is a polycarbonate sheet sandwiched between aluminum plates. The sample picture I posted is a GON.

jdcarpe · « **Reply #65 on:** Mon, 12 May 2014, 12:01:49 »

This would be "spacers on the fasteners"

mkawa · « **Reply #66 on:** Mon, 12 May 2014, 15:39:00 »

yah, so JD's picture is fasteners with some sort of spacing coupler or shaft that just surrounds the fastener and keeps the two plates at a given distance from each other.

the other option is to fully enclose the space between the plates with layers of acrylic.

the former option is cheaper and allows the front and back heights to be non-equal. acrylic is often used as a light guide though, since light tends to diffuse through the material. if you had leds on the underside of the board in JD's picture, you'd see a bunch of point light sources in the reflection, but not get the diffused glow that's in cptbadass' picture

Vibex · « **Reply #67 on:** Mon, 12 May 2014, 15:43:00 »

Quote from: mkawa on Mon, 12 May 2014, 15:39:00

yah, so JD's picture is fasteners with some sort of spacing coupler or shaft that just surrounds the fastener and keeps the two plates at a given distance from each other.

the other option is to fully enclose the space between the plates with layers of acrylic.

the former option is cheaper and allows the front and back heights to be non-equal. acrylic is often used as a light guide though, since light tends to diffuse through the material. if you had leds on the underside of the board in JD's picture, you'd see a bunch of point light sources in the reflection, but not get the diffused glow that's in cptbadass' picture

I think going for the acrylic in CPTBadAss and using feet to change the height is the best option.

mkawa · « **Reply #68 on:** Mon, 12 May 2014, 15:49:06 »

alu feet and acrylic are both going to cost money over spacers and bumpons, but hey, if people want it we make it

nuclearsandwich · « **Reply #69 on:** Mon, 12 May 2014, 15:50:46 »

I much prefer spacers and the barebones, homebuilt aesthetic.

MOZ · « **Reply #70 on:** Mon, 12 May 2014, 15:57:17 »

Just want to commend the effort here. Nice work people

mkawa · « **Reply #71 on:** Mon, 12 May 2014, 15:59:47 »

another point on the acrylic is that it's going to obscure the bottom plate. in that case we might as well make the bottom plate thicker aluminum.

Yslen · « **Reply #72 on:** Mon, 12 May 2014, 16:00:17 »

If this ends up looking like a 40% GON I am certainly happy with that as a result

On the other hand, I think there's something to be said for the home-built look and keeping the price down.

I'm good for either.

Any update on the layout yet?

Vibex · « **Reply #73 on:** Mon, 12 May 2014, 16:00:45 »

Quote from: mkawa on Mon, 12 May 2014, 15:49:06

alu feet and acrylic are both going to cost money over spacers and bumpons, but hey, if people want it we make it

Yeah, if it becomes to expensive then the full acrylic isn't necessary, but I think the feet are really a must have.

tbc · « **Reply #74 on:** Mon, 12 May 2014, 22:06:50 »

i'm going to vote for full acrylic layer.

Pacifist · « **Reply #75 on:** Mon, 12 May 2014, 22:31:49 »

Is it possible to just get the PCB and plate? I want to DIY a case and then get one cut out of aluminum later

danielucf · « **Reply #76 on:** Tue, 13 May 2014, 16:21:53 »

I'm down for this, TI to the max. I'd like the option to buy spacers and acrylic because I'd like to be able to do both depending on mood and such.

I don't remember seeing it, but would the JD40 plate allow switch housing removal? If yes then this would be a cool board to have around to swap switches or springs for experimenting since it wouldn't be as many switches as a 60-80% board to swap out.

jdcarpe · « **Reply #77 on:** Tue, 13 May 2014, 16:25:35 »

Quote from: Pacifist on Mon, 12 May 2014, 22:31:49

Is it possible to just get the PCB and plate? I want to DIY a case and then get one cut out of aluminum later

I think mkawa wants to do them as kits, really. But the plate is the case here, so I don't really know what you mean by "DIY a case."

Quote from: danielucf on Tue, 13 May 2014, 16:21:53

I'm down for this, TI to the max. I'd like the option to buy spacers and acrylic because I'd like to be able to do both depending on mood and such.

I don't remember seeing it, but would the JD40 plate allow switch housing removal? If yes then this would be a cool board to have around to swap switches or springs for experimenting since it wouldn't be as many switches as a 60-80% board to swap out.

My suggestion would be to make the spacers as default, and have the acrylic spacer layer available for anyone who wants to buy it as an add-on.

And yes, my drawings have the correct openings.

Yslen · « **Reply #78 on:** Tue, 13 May 2014, 16:26:07 »

Quote from: danielucf on Tue, 13 May 2014, 16:21:53

I'm down for this, TI to the max. I'd like the option to buy spacers and acrylic because I'd like to be able to do both depending on mood and such.

I don't remember seeing it, but would the JD40 plate allow switch housing removal? If yes then this would be a cool board to have around to swap switches or springs for experimenting since it wouldn't be as many switches as a 60-80% board to swap out.

This. I'd love cutouts for switch swapping on this board. It doesn't really cost more to make, right?

mkawa · « **Reply #79 on:** Tue, 13 May 2014, 16:27:56 »

the cutouts aren't going to be possible with the cutting method we're using for cost reasons.

mkawa · « **Reply #80 on:** Tue, 13 May 2014, 16:28:52 »

if you want cutouts, check out this thread: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58073.0

and have a top plate made _now_. this cutter can hold the tolerances needed to do notches

jdcarpe · « **Reply #81 on:** Tue, 13 May 2014, 16:29:16 »

Quote from: mkawa on Tue, 13 May 2014, 16:27:56

the cutouts aren't going to be possible with the cutting method we're using for cost reasons.

Oh, I didn't know we were back to WJ for cutting switch plates.

Melvang · « **Reply #82 on:** Tue, 13 May 2014, 16:30:49 »

Quote from: Yslen on Tue, 13 May 2014, 16:26:07

Quote from: danielucf on Tue, 13 May 2014, 16:21:53
I'm down for this, TI to the max. I'd like the option to buy spacers and acrylic because I'd like to be able to do both depending on mood and such.

I don't remember seeing it, but would the JD40 plate allow switch housing removal? If yes then this would be a cool board to have around to swap switches or springs for experimenting since it wouldn't be as many switches as a 60-80% board to swap out.

This. I'd love cutouts for switch swapping on this board. It doesn't really cost more to make, right?

It actually adds a pretty substantial amount in To due to the much slower fees rates with the cutter.

mkawa · « **Reply #83 on:** Tue, 13 May 2014, 17:43:04 »

Quote from: jdcarpe on Tue, 13 May 2014, 16:29:16

Quote from: mkawa on Tue, 13 May 2014, 16:27:56
the cutouts aren't going to be possible with the cutting method we're using for cost reasons.

Oh, I didn't know we were back to WJ for cutting switch plates.

the cutting fees get "cut" in half on the WJ. i'd rather keep costs down and keep it to a single cutter for a large run

minho · « **Reply #84 on:** Tue, 13 May 2014, 19:37:10 »

Full acrylic (with aluminum backplate if that's the case) would be nice - it would look something like a 40% GON.

Yslen · « **Reply #85 on:** Tue, 13 May 2014, 19:52:13 »

Quote from: minho on Tue, 13 May 2014, 19:37:10

Full acrylic (with aluminum backplate if that's the case) would be nice - it would look something like a 40% GON.

In other words, amazing

mkawa · « **Reply #86 on:** Tue, 13 May 2014, 19:53:48 »

we're only going to be able to go with one of the two options. full Ti without acrylic or Ti top, alu bottom with full acrylic. the way we're going to cut the Ti involves stacking Ti sheets and using a multi-headed waterjet. it's a bit of a dance to cut, but the radio edit is that there has to be a high degree of uniformity in our cuts.

minho · « **Reply #87 on:** Tue, 13 May 2014, 19:55:40 »

Quote from: mkawa on Tue, 13 May 2014, 19:53:48

we're only going to be able to go with one of the two options. full Ti without acrylic or Ti top, alu bottom with full acrylic. the way we're going to cut the Ti involves stacking Ti sheets and using a multi-headed waterjet. it's a bit of a dance to cut, but the radio edit is that there has to be a high degree of uniformity in our cuts.

Awesome, thanks for the options!

Melvang · « **Reply #88 on:** Tue, 13 May 2014, 20:31:39 »

I vote full ti with no acrylic.

Vibex · « **Reply #89 on:** Tue, 13 May 2014, 21:14:24 »

mkawa, you and JD should set up a poll to keep track of people's votes and how many people legitimately buy a kit.

minho · « **Reply #90 on:** Tue, 13 May 2014, 21:20:12 »

Quote from: Melvang on Tue, 13 May 2014, 20:31:39

I vote full ti with no acrylic.

Well damn, my reading comprehension skills stink something awful. I originally read mkawa's post as giving us both options, not choosing one of the two.

My vote is for the acrylic and aluminum backplate.

tbc · « **Reply #91 on:** Wed, 14 May 2014, 01:08:41 »

full acrylic.

look like i'm going to have to buy my titanium from the cut and bend and get my acrylic + pcb from here lol.

the kit will include diodes?

minho · « **Reply #92 on:** Wed, 14 May 2014, 07:12:27 »

Quote from: tbc on Wed, 14 May 2014, 01:08:41

full acrylic.

look like i'm going to have to buy my titanium from the cut and bend and get my acrylic + pcb from here lol.

the kit will include diodes?

I thought the acrylic wasn't being produced if it doesn't win the vote? (And in the case where it does win the vote, wouldn't it be more convenient to buy it from here?)

mkawa · « **Reply #93 on:** Wed, 14 May 2014, 08:35:25 »

yah, the acrylic isn't going to be produced if it's a significant cost and/or there isn't sufficient demand. one material one cut is going to be the most cost effective, even if that material is high grade titanium.

Grendel · « **Reply #94 on:** Wed, 14 May 2014, 11:20:01 »

Quote from: Melvang on Tue, 13 May 2014, 20:31:39

I vote full ti with no acrylic.

x2

Yslen · « **Reply #95 on:** Wed, 14 May 2014, 11:29:19 »

If we went full Ti, would it be possible to add an acrylic layer at a later date? A mini buy for those who wanted that option, if it turns out to be the less popular of the two.

jdcarpe · « **Reply #96 on:** Wed, 14 May 2014, 11:31:42 »

Quote from: Yslen on Wed, 14 May 2014, 11:29:19

If we went full Ti, would it be possible to add an acrylic layer at a later date? A mini buy for those who wanted that option, if it turns out to be the less popular of the two.

Yes, you can always add the acrylic spacer layer at a later time.

BTW, for the thru-hole PCB this is based on, you would need 12mm of separation between the plates, minimum, for the Teensy's USB connector. So normally, that would mean two 6mm spacer layers.

mkawa · « **Reply #97 on:** Wed, 14 May 2014, 12:03:00 »

i think that's a better plan

i'd like to keep production as simple as humanly possible right now

Yslen · « **Reply #98 on:** Wed, 14 May 2014, 12:20:22 »

Quote from: mkawa on Wed, 14 May 2014, 12:03:00

i'd like to keep production as simple as humanly possible right now

That's probably very wise!

tjweir · « **Reply #99 on:** Wed, 14 May 2014, 12:28:24 »

Quote from: mkawa on Wed, 14 May 2014, 12:03:00

i'd like to keep production as simple as humanly possible right now

Nice, group buys tend to spiral out control. This is delightful news.

News:

Author Topic: [IC] JD40 40% boards: metal, plastic, and a celebration of smallfry's life (Read 30833 times)