Prototyping New Keyboard Designs (Using Plate Mounting and Direct Wiring)

[0100010]

Made my first attempt at plate layout using QCAD.  Didn't take as long as I thought to figure out the basics on usage.

[jdeblese]

Interesting, may have to give this a shot. I've got access to a hackerspace with a laser cutter, will just have to learn how to use it.

Does anyone know where the stem of an ISO Enter is located? Centered vertically and on the short horizontal, or would that be too easy?

[jdcarpe]

Interesting, may have to give this a shot. I've got access to a hackerspace with a laser cutter, will just have to learn how to use it.

Does anyone know where the stem of an ISO Enter is located? Centered vertically and on the short horizontal, or would that be too easy?

Here you go...

[jdeblese]

Here you go...

That's a rotated 2-unit stabilizer, right? Where exactly should it be centered on? I unfortunately don't yet have an ISO Enter that I can measure the stem of.

[qwack]

Maybe you found the answer, but I checked my ISO keyboard and the ISO Enter is just a 1.5 (top) + 1.25 (bottom) key, with the center of the switch aligned as highlighted here:



Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[jdeblese]

Maybe you found the answer, but I checked my ISO keyboard and the ISO Enter is just a 1.5 (top) + 1.25 (bottom) key, with the center of the switch aligned as highlighted here:

Show Image

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I hadn't yet, so thanks! Was intending to measure it on an ISO key but haven't gotten one yet.

That dot is centered on the middle of the 1.25u dimension, right? Makes sense, and fits with what the vertical 2u cut-out that jdcarpe's file contains.

[qwack]

That dot is centered on the middle of the 1.25u dimension, right?

That's right!

[qwack]

Okay, I've given a try to the custom plate thing, and I'm hitting a wall. I use QCAD as suggested by jdcarpe, and the .dwg file posted in the GH CAD resources thread (which is a godsend). Here is what I'm doing:

- open the plate_components.dwg file
- select the spacebar I want, hit "copy" (ctrl+c), paste it (ctrl+v) where there will be enough room for the whole plate
- select a key, hit "copy with reference" (ctrl+shift+c), click on the reference point (the corner I want to snap to the previously placed key), paste (ctrl+v), snap to one corner of the space bar, click
- rinse and repeat until the whole plate is done (I start with the bottom row, then the left-hand modifiers, then I fill the plate with 1u holes, and finish with the larger right-hand keys)



Once it's done, I delete everything but the plate I just designed, and save it as a .dwg file. The problems show up when I try to upload my file at bigbluesaw:



Okay, so I selected "mm" (and not "inches") the first time the program started, but my file is still in inches. Then there are parts crossing, no outside perimeter and so on. Any idea whet I should do besides what I've explained to get an error-free file?

[jdeblese]

Just a few thoughts:

- The components in that DXF contain both the cutout and a surrounding key outline. You removed that outline leaving only the cutout, right? I ask because shift, enter, tab and such look odd on that second screenshot.
- Did you put an outer border around the plate?

It might be easier for people to help if you post your final DXF, or at least a screenshot.

[qwack]

Just a few thoughts:

- The components in that DXF contain both the cutout and a surrounding key outline. You removed that outline leaving only the cutout, right?

No I didn't 

I added a border, removed the outlines around the cutouts and still got errors, but saving the file as R24 (2010) DWG file solved the problem. Now I need to find how to change the units to mm it should be okay (now it's still a 285 x 95 inches plate  ). Thanks for the feedback!

[jdcarpe]

Just a few thoughts:

- The components in that DXF contain both the cutout and a surrounding key outline. You removed that outline leaving only the cutout, right?

No I didn't 

I added a border, removed the outlines around the cutouts and still got errors, but saving the file as R24 (2010) DWG file solved the problem. Now I need to find how to change the units to mm it should be okay (now it's still a 285 x 95 inches plate  ). Thanks for the feedback!

Just scale your drawing by a factor of 0.0393700787401575 and you will get the correct units in inches.

[jdeblese]

No I didn't 

I added a border, removed the outlines around the cutouts and still got errors, but saving the file as R24 (2010) DWG file solved the problem. Now I need to find how to change the units to mm it should be okay (now it's still a 285 x 95 inches plate  ). Thanks for the feedback!

Sure thing!

Let us know how it turns out. I've been wanting to design a plate, but have been a bit put off by the expense for something I'll likely have to tweak. Any idea what Big Blue Saw's gonna charge you?

[qwack]

Oddly enough, saving the file as a .dxf seems to do the trick, the plate dimensions are now properly recognized.

One poker-sized 1.5mm thick steel or aluminium plate is around 90$ from bigbluesaw, 50$ each if you order 5-10 five of them. I think the price is halved if you order from frontpanelexpress, but they only cut aluminium, you'll have to use their design tool, and it's CNC, no water/lasercutting, so the corner radius of the switch cutouts might be an issue (perhaps 1mm radius if fine though).

[Melvang]

Oddly enough, saving the file as a .dxf seems to do the trick, the plate dimensions are now properly recognized.

One poker-sized 1.5mm thick steel or aluminium plate is around 90$ from bigbluesaw, 50$ each if you order 5-10 five of them. I think the price is halved if you order from frontpanelexpress, but they only cut aluminium, you'll have to use their design tool, and it's CNC, no water/lasercutting, so the corner radius of the switch cutouts might be an issue (perhaps 1mm radius if fine though).

Max radius on the corners according to cherry spec is .012" or .3048mm.  If you have it made at 1mm radius expect to have to file each and every corner.

[qwack]

This is good to know, thanks!

[Melvang]

While it is possible to get down this small with traditional milling the time on the machine to use these for every corner on a switch plate will probably be cost prohibitive in aluminum which cuts very easy.  Let alone doing a stainless plate which cuts like a SOB with traditional milling methods.  Laser works out very well and waterjet works just as good.

Laser is a more expensive process due to equipment costs but cuts faster than waterjet.  Both can achieve the radius that is needed for cherry switches.

[0100010]

This design is kind of Plum96 and Lightsaver-ish - the 'Mode' key in the upper corner serves to only change the layer for the numpad:

Keyboard Editor Link

[byker]

What do you guys think about this ~76 key board?

Keyboard Editor Link

[HoffmanMyster]

What do you guys think about this ~76 key board?

Keyboard Editor Link

Initially I thought it looked like the LongCat Project, but obviously yours adds the number row back in and has the numpad on the right. 

Regardless, I think it looks really fun.  Basically a slightly more condensed Lightsaver.

[byker]

What do you guys think about this ~76 key board?

Keyboard Editor Link

Initially I thought it looked like the LongCat Project, but obviously yours adds the number row back in and has the numpad on the right. 

Regardless, I think it looks really fun.  Basically a slightly more condensed Lightsaver.

Thanks. Haven't seen that LongCat Project before actually.

[Moralless]

Would anyone be willing to help make me the plate for my keyboard better? I've read through the whole thread, but I'm just scared that my dimensions would be a bit off and make the switches a bit loose since I'm planning to hand wire this. I'm actually in the process of making the case in CAD aswell, but only because that seems a bit more forgiving than the plate.

EDIT: I realized I forgot to attach my attempt at making a plate, so if anyone can take a look at it, and maybe point out some errors I've made that'd be great.

[0100010]

Most of your keys that should be 1x1, are 1x1.5.

[Moralless]

Most of your keys that should be 1x1, are 1x1.5.

I was suppose to attach a dwg file of the plate that I made, but for some reason I can't seem to upload it and get an internal error. But thanks for pointing that out, I knew it looked different but couldn't pinpoint why   )

EDIT: decided to just upload to dropbox.
Can anyone please look over my files to see if I made any errors, before I send it to get cut.
Plate + Bottom
Layers 2 + 3
Layer 4

[0100010]

Corrected the design online : http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/2c02c25bb5a98ff0908edbf2aec75b39

There was some placement accuracy issues with the key cutouts in the plate, and the keys were not centered in general on the plate - check this version : https://www.dropbox.com/s/ofx6qmxg2yrgs2u/mechlayers_1n5v2.dwg?dl=0

[Moralless]

Corrected the design online : http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/2c02c25bb5a98ff0908edbf2aec75b39

There was some placement accuracy issues with the key cutouts in the plate, and the keys were not centered in general on the plate - check this version : https://www.dropbox.com/s/ofx6qmxg2yrgs2u/mechlayers_1n5v2.dwg?dl=0

Thanks for that! Didn't even consider if it was centered or not. However I can't seem to open the file you linked onto draftsight which is what I use to edit, but I was able to see it on autocad drawing viewer (which doesn't let me do much), it just says it the file is not supported - can you just tell me the distance between each respective side of the plate and the lines you drew?

EDIT: I also noticed that you "boxed in" the plate holes by adding another set of lines that go around the perimeter of it. I'm pretty inexperienced in this whole design process and how laser cutting works so could you tell me the difference in how they would cut your version of the plate vs the initial version?

[0100010]

Those boxes are the outside edges of the keycaps essentially.  It is usually easier to index off the edges of where the caps will be to position the switch cutouts correctly.  Before the file gets sent out to be cut, those extra lines need to be removed so that only the edges of the plate, switch cutouts and screw holes remain.

I use QCAD myself for this (tried Draftsight and didn't like it).

15.56mm on either side and 8.63mm top/bottom.

[Moralless]

Those boxes are the outside edges of the keycaps essentially.  It is usually easier to index off the edges of where the caps will be to position the switch cutouts correctly.  Before the file gets sent out to be cut, those extra lines need to be removed so that only the edges of the plate, switch cutouts and screw holes remain.

I use QCAD myself for this (tried Draftsight and didn't like it).

15.56mm on either side and 8.63mm top/bottom.

Oh I didn't mean those extra lines I mean these

[0100010]

Ah - those lines.  I copied that over from your layer 4 drawing to see the size of the spacers - so I could 'eyeball' the position of the keys to center them.

Replied to your PM, also updated drawing is here : https://www.dropbox.com/s/kc9ifjecs1niz3n/mechlayers_1n5v3.dwg?dl=0

[Lubed Up Slug]

Where would I get those pins for handwiring?

Is there something else I could use?  Like just take wire, strip it at the ends, solder the ends together to the switches, and then connect it to the controller?

[MOZ]

Yes.

[vvp]

You can hand-wire switches with bare wires too like this:
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/katy-keyboard-or-k80cs-key80-contoured-split-t8524.html#p181273

No tinkering with insulation of wires makes the work go quickly. You can do it if you do not expect anything would be pushing on the wire matrix from the bottom (which could stretch, bend, and short them).

[margo baggins]

Introducing, the JMargo-70!

Thanks for your help JD, getting these cut at the end of the month for some direct wiring fun

[Lubed Up Slug]

So all I need is some switches, some wire, some solder, and a teensy 2.0?

[Melvang]

So all I need is some switches, some wire, some solder, and a teensy 2.0?

And diodes.  But those are very cheap.  IIRC the last time I got any, I ordered 300 and shipping still cost more than the diodes.

[Lubed Up Slug]

So all I need is some switches, some wire, some solder, and a teensy 2.0?

And diodes.  But those are very cheap.  IIRC the last time I got any, I ordered 300 and shipping still cost more than the diodes.

lol

What kind and how many for a 60%? One for every key?

Oh I see one for every switch.

[abjr]

So all I need is some switches, some wire, some solder, and a teensy 2.0?

And diodes.  But those are very cheap.  IIRC the last time I got any, I ordered 300 and shipping still cost more than the diodes.

and stabilzers ...

[Lubed Up Slug]

So all I need is some switches, some wire, some solder, and a teensy 2.0?

And diodes.  But those are very cheap.  IIRC the last time I got any, I ordered 300 and shipping still cost more than the diodes.

and stabilzers ...

well yes of course and keycaps, a plate and a case

[glyph]

Hi could someone please explain the difference between the square holes and those with nubs that I see in this thread? I assume they are both for cherry MX switches, but what do the different cut out dimensions achieve?

[Melvang]

Hi could someone please explain the difference between the square holes and those with nubs that I see in this thread? I assume they are both for cherry MX switches, but what do the different cut out dimensions achieve?

Show Image

Those cutouts provide clearance for the tabs on the upper half of the housing to allow you to remove the top half of the switch without desoldering the switch.  This makes it much easier for spring and stem swaps on plate mount setups. 

[HoffmanMyster]

Hi could someone please explain the difference between the square holes and those with nubs that I see in this thread? I assume they are both for cherry MX switches, but what do the different cut out dimensions achieve?

Show Image

Those cutouts provide clearance for the tabs on the upper half of the housing to allow you to remove the top half of the switch without desoldering the switch.  This makes it much easier for spring and stem swaps on plate mount setups.

Just to put it in perspective, it takes the difficulty level down from "must desolder every switch" to "pop the switch top off and swap the springs" (which you already had to do anyway).  That is, assuming you didn't add LEDs.  It's an incredibly helpful feature.

[glyph]

Thanks for your answers gentlemen, it makes allot of sense.

[Zjedz]

@jdcarpe, I am interested in making direct wiring keyboard by myself using Cherry MX swithes. I've been unsuccessfully searching internet for a while in order to find DWG (needed to laser cut plate) of normal ANSI tenkeyless. So I would like to ask you to make DWG of tenkeyless plate with holes for screws, because I noticed you are pretty skilled in this.
This is my project of location of screw holes which I would like to have in diameter of 0.2inch just for M5 screws (red dots, only for location, not for size): http://imgur.com/fXiaWEw
(space key is taken from your other .dwg and I think I scaled it badly so have it in mind that it isn't how it is supposed to be in final .dwg)
It is supposed to be standard ANSI TKL plate with a little bit more metal around to make holes in.

[Saf_Rimons]

We were talking on another post earlier and you referred me to this one, could you make a plate design that works with this?

[p3lim]

I'm after this, but I want to fit it inside a stock poker case, so I need to know where the screw holes should be, dimensions of the plate etc.



I know that the poker is usually mounted by the PCB, but by using smaller dimension holes and some standoffs it should be fine.

[dorkvader]

I know that the poker is usually mounted by the PCB, but by using smaller dimension holes and some standoffs it should be fine.

Yeah that would work.

I actually measured the screw locations of a poker with a caliper. Let me see if I can find them, but someone else might have an actual CAD drawing and more accurate measurements.

[MOZ]

Use the GH60 PCB designs as a reference: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34959.msg954124#msg954124

[jorgenslee]

I am experiencing a problem with my sprit 60% pcb and maybe someone here could relate and diagnose what's the problem since I think it it related to matrix of the pcb.

The row 1 matrix compose of the following:

Q Tab A Z 1

This is what happens:
When I press 1, it registers q1
When I press q, it registers q tab
When I press tab, it registers a tab

Is this have something to do with the matrix? software? or firmware?

Apparently, it's the only row that is experiencing this problem.

[Moralless]

I am experiencing a problem with my sprit 60% pcb and maybe someone here could relate and diagnose what's the problem since I think it it related to matrix of the pcb.

The row 1 matrix compose of the following:

Q Tab A Z 1

This is what happens:
When I press 1, it registers q1
When I press q, it registers q tab
When I press tab, it registers a tab

Is this have something to do with the matrix? software? or firmware?

Apparently, it's the only row that is experiencing this problem.

What sort of things have you tried to diagnose the problem? Off the top of my head, have you checked if the diodes are soldered in the correct orientation? Have you tried re flowing the solder of the switches in the column that's not working properly?
Those are my usual go to's when keystrokes aren't registering as intended. And the way you described what's happening (multiple keys being registered when only 1 key is being pressed) it seems that it might be the hardware problem moreso then the firmware (but I am not familiar with the software used to program sprit pcbs).

[jorgenslee]

I am experiencing a problem with my sprit 60% pcb and maybe someone here could relate and diagnose what's the problem since I think it it related to matrix of the pcb.

The row 1 matrix compose of the following:

Q Tab A Z 1

This is what happens:
When I press 1, it registers q1
When I press q, it registers q tab
When I press tab, it registers a tab

Is this have something to do with the matrix? software? or firmware?

Apparently, it's the only row that is experiencing this problem.

What sort of things have you tried to diagnose the problem? Off the top of my head, have you checked if the diodes are soldered in the correct orientation? Have you tried re flowing the solder of the switches in the column that's not working properly?
Those are my usual go to's when keystrokes aren't registering as intended. And the way you described what's happening (multiple keys being registered when only 1 key is being pressed) it seems that it might be the hardware problem moreso then the firmware (but I am not familiar with the software used to program sprit pcbs).

The keyboard is working fine until I change/remove the split backspace and short right shift to full backspace and full right shift. I already flash the default firmware, used EK switch hitter, I also reflow the diodes on the suspected keys. I will reflow the suspected switch now. I also check if the diode are broken using multitester and they seems to be working fine.

[mathieubolla]

Hi,

Here is my attempt at something looking like a keyboard:
- That is personal (measured my hands, really...)
- That is ergonomic (should be able to type without moving my wrists on almost all the surface, except 9 keys on the "central keypad"
- That has no layout for now (but I'm working on it, discussing possibilities on TMK firmare wiki. That includes some crazy fn-space with locking mecanism)

I'll have it routed from 1.5mm PMMA (maybe laser cut? they say extruded PMMA doesn't look nice, but while not nice, is it at least accurate?) at the local fablab very soon. Those MX Blue can't wait in their plastic bag on my desk...

Mathieu

(feel free to reuse... it's a (heavily?) modified Atreus, which is open source...)
(and feel free to comment: I'm a newbie, I'm sure I made at least some mistakes...)