Author Topic: NOW OPEN SOURCE!!! swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]  (Read 2874930 times)

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Offline Melvang

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #300 on: Mon, 19 January 2015, 22:46:34 »
Just wondering but what are the chances that the files this app pukes out will be editable with SolidWorks?
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #301 on: Mon, 19 January 2015, 22:56:15 »
Just wondering but what are the chances that the files this app pukes out will be editable with SolidWorks?

That's like the default app, besides FreeCAD. :)
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Offline MOZ

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #302 on: Mon, 19 January 2015, 23:13:25 »
Looking very nice swill. I highly appreciate the ability to set the switch cut out using the text from the layout generator. Regarding kerf, what you have said, sounds right.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #303 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 08:06:42 »
Just wondering but what are the chances that the files this app pukes out will be editable with SolidWorks?
The export formats result in a 3D solid. You could theoretically modify it after, but it will not do you any favours.  You will not be able to modify what I produce other than to add (more likely remove) material.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #304 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 08:07:36 »
Looking very nice swill. I highly appreciate the ability to set the switch cut out using the text from the layout generator. Regarding kerf, what you have said, sounds right.
Cool. Thanks for verifying. :). I will try to get this finished tonight.

Offline Dihedral

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #305 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 09:22:29 »
Looking very nice swill. I highly appreciate the ability to set the switch cut out using the text from the layout generator. Regarding kerf, what you have said, sounds right.
Cool. Thanks for verifying. :). I will try to get this finished tonight.

HYPE!

Offline Melvang

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #306 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 13:17:32 »
Just wondering but what are the chances that the files this app pukes out will be editable with SolidWorks?
The export formats result in a 3D solid. You could theoretically modify it after, but it will not do you any favours.  You will not be able to modify what I produce other than to add (more likely remove) material.

Yeah it would be to make holes bigger and then combine certain holes as well.
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #307 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 13:22:35 »
Just wondering but what are the chances that the files this app pukes out will be editable with SolidWorks?
The export formats result in a 3D solid. You could theoretically modify it after, but it will not do you any favours.  You will not be able to modify what I produce other than to add (more likely remove) material.

Yeah it would be to make holes bigger and then combine certain holes as well.
Ya, that should be possible.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #308 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 13:25:20 »
Someone posted this on reddit today:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/2seon0/i_wrote_a_script_that_makes_a_keyboard_plate_in/

This could be swill, I guess....

Interestingly, this is not actually me...  haha...

Apparently someone else is working on this too...

Same person posted a thread on GH. Just FYI.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67865.0

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #309 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 16:35:29 »
Alright.  Kerf is implemented...

Here is stabilizer cutout with kerf = 0.0mm

87991-0

Here is the same cutout with kerf = 0.1mm

87993-1

And here is the current UI with all options expanded...

87995-2

Let me know if you see any problems with my calculations.  I have implemented kerf for all my cutouts.  Also, let me know if you think I should change the UI at all for this feature.  I am considering adding a default kerf of something like 0.05, but I am not sure about that yet.  Do we know what the kerf is for 1.6mm aluminum?  Thx guys...

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #310 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 16:41:56 »
Scratch work...




Offline neverused

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #311 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 16:44:50 »
Looks great!

Offline Melvang

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #312 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 16:49:06 »
Alright.  Kerf is implemented...

Here is stabilizer cutout with kerf = 0.0mm

(Attachment Link)

Here is the same cutout with kerf = 0.1mm

(Attachment Link)

And here is the current UI with all options expanded...

(Attachment Link)

Let me know if you see any problems with my calculations.  I have implemented kerf for all my cutouts.  Also, let me know if you think I should change the UI at all for this feature.  I am considering adding a default kerf of something like 0.05, but I am not sure about that yet.  Do we know what the kerf is for 1.6mm aluminum?  Thx guys...

I think a good choice for UI would be just to have the drop down select what the plate material will be, which will dictate what the kerf will be for the calculations on the back end.  What those numbers are for different materials I can't tell ya, but I wouldn't think that it would vary to much from fab shop to fab shop.
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #313 on: Tue, 20 January 2015, 16:53:22 »
Alright.  Kerf is implemented...

Here is stabilizer cutout with kerf = 0.0mm

(Attachment Link)

Here is the same cutout with kerf = 0.1mm

(Attachment Link)

And here is the current UI with all options expanded...

(Attachment Link)

Let me know if you see any problems with my calculations.  I have implemented kerf for all my cutouts.  Also, let me know if you think I should change the UI at all for this feature.  I am considering adding a default kerf of something like 0.05, but I am not sure about that yet.  Do we know what the kerf is for 1.6mm aluminum?  Thx guys...

I think a good choice for UI would be just to have the drop down select what the plate material will be, which will dictate what the kerf will be for the calculations on the back end.  What those numbers are for different materials I can't tell ya, but I wouldn't think that it would vary to much from fab shop to fab shop.
I was thinking of doing that, but then I would require the thickness field if they specify the material because the thickness affects the kerf value. I will talk to a couple shops and see what they quote me for kerf for the different materials and thicknesses.

Offline MOZ

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #314 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 01:48:57 »
Yeah, looks good. In the help popup, maybe you can have a small table with the commonly used materials (Acrylic, steel, alu) and the common thickness (1.5mm, 3mm, 5mm) and the associated kerfs.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #315 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 08:16:39 »
Yeah, looks good. In the help popup, maybe you can have a small table with the commonly used materials (Acrylic, steel, alu) and the common thickness (1.5mm, 3mm, 5mm) and the associated kerfs.
Ya. That's a good simple idea.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #316 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 13:09:27 »
Last night I spent a bunch of time trying to get the processes to be parallelized.  I have been able to get the actual cad drawing to be done in sub processes and that is working great.  However I still have not been able to figure out how to make the setup of the LXC containers no block my thread.  All in all, I think this aspect of the code is good enough...

I did a test to build 5 plates at the same time with the following results.  It definitely affects the build time of each plate, but it is still within reason.  All the plates were built within about 2 minutes, so thats not too bad.  Thats not too bad considering there was about 110 seconds of blocked time where only one plate is being worked on in that period.

Here are some details:
Code: [Select]
LXC processing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
Creating LXC worker: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8_1421866400.51
Worker has IP: 10.0.3.156
LXC setup took: 11.58 seconds
Drawing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC processing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
Creating LXC worker: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8_1421866412.36
Worker has IP: 10.0.3.2
LXC setup took: 12.49 seconds
Drawing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC processing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
Creating LXC worker: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8_1421866425.12
Worker has IP: 10.0.3.249
LXC setup took: 12.58 seconds
Drawing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC processing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
Creating LXC worker: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8_1421866438.16
Worker has IP: 10.0.3.59
LXC setup took: 12.46 seconds
Drawing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC processing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
Creating LXC worker: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8_1421866450.98
Worker has IP: 10.0.3.116
LXC setup took: 12.67 seconds
Drawing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC finished: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC process took: 102.38 seconds
Request took: 102.83 seconds
LXC finished: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC process took: 141.85 seconds
Request took: 142.20 seconds
LXC finished: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC process took: 91.73 seconds
Request took: 92.07 seconds
LXC finished: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC process took: 117.67 seconds
Request took: 117.94 seconds
LXC finished: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC process took: 132.14 seconds
Request took: 132.39 seconds

They are all building the same hash because I was building the same layout on all machines.  I currently have caching turned off for testing purposes...

Offline Dihedral

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #317 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 13:19:57 »
Last night I spent a bunch of time trying to get the processes to be parallelized.  I have been able to get the actual cad drawing to be done in sub processes and that is working great.  However I still have not been able to figure out how to make the setup of the LXC containers no block my thread.  All in all, I think this aspect of the code is good enough...

I did a test to build 5 plates at the same time with the following results.  It definitely affects the build time of each plate, but it is still within reason.  All the plates were built within about 2 minutes, so thats not too bad.  Thats not too bad considering there was about 110 seconds of blocked time where only one plate is being worked on in that period.

Here are some details:
Code: [Select]
LXC processing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
Creating LXC worker: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8_1421866400.51
Worker has IP: 10.0.3.156
LXC setup took: 11.58 seconds
Drawing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC processing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
Creating LXC worker: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8_1421866412.36
Worker has IP: 10.0.3.2
LXC setup took: 12.49 seconds
Drawing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC processing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
Creating LXC worker: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8_1421866425.12
Worker has IP: 10.0.3.249
LXC setup took: 12.58 seconds
Drawing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC processing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
Creating LXC worker: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8_1421866438.16
Worker has IP: 10.0.3.59
LXC setup took: 12.46 seconds
Drawing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC processing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
Creating LXC worker: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8_1421866450.98
Worker has IP: 10.0.3.116
LXC setup took: 12.67 seconds
Drawing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC finished: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC process took: 102.38 seconds
Request took: 102.83 seconds
LXC finished: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC process took: 141.85 seconds
Request took: 142.20 seconds
LXC finished: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC process took: 91.73 seconds
Request took: 92.07 seconds
LXC finished: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC process took: 117.67 seconds
Request took: 117.94 seconds
LXC finished: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC process took: 132.14 seconds
Request took: 132.39 seconds

They are all building the same hash because I was building the same layout on all machines.  I currently have caching turned off for testing purposes...

Surely 10 seconds on the main thread isn't too bad? Or does this stop any user from using the tool?

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #318 on: Wed, 21 January 2015, 13:55:05 »
Last night I spent a bunch of time trying to get the processes to be parallelized.  I have been able to get the actual cad drawing to be done in sub processes and that is working great.  However I still have not been able to figure out how to make the setup of the LXC containers no block my thread.  All in all, I think this aspect of the code is good enough...

I did a test to build 5 plates at the same time with the following results.  It definitely affects the build time of each plate, but it is still within reason.  All the plates were built within about 2 minutes, so thats not too bad.  Thats not too bad considering there was about 110 seconds of blocked time where only one plate is being worked on in that period.

Here are some details:
Code: [Select]
LXC processing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
Creating LXC worker: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8_1421866400.51
Worker has IP: 10.0.3.156
LXC setup took: 11.58 seconds
Drawing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC processing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
Creating LXC worker: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8_1421866412.36
Worker has IP: 10.0.3.2
LXC setup took: 12.49 seconds
Drawing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC processing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
Creating LXC worker: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8_1421866425.12
Worker has IP: 10.0.3.249
LXC setup took: 12.58 seconds
Drawing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC processing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
Creating LXC worker: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8_1421866438.16
Worker has IP: 10.0.3.59
LXC setup took: 12.46 seconds
Drawing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC processing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
Creating LXC worker: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8_1421866450.98
Worker has IP: 10.0.3.116
LXC setup took: 12.67 seconds
Drawing: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC finished: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC process took: 102.38 seconds
Request took: 102.83 seconds
LXC finished: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC process took: 141.85 seconds
Request took: 142.20 seconds
LXC finished: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC process took: 91.73 seconds
Request took: 92.07 seconds
LXC finished: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC process took: 117.67 seconds
Request took: 117.94 seconds
LXC finished: 1434c58682d567f414ea0bda091e94668f30e7f8
LXC process took: 132.14 seconds
Request took: 132.39 seconds

They are all building the same hash because I was building the same layout on all machines.  I currently have caching turned off for testing purposes...

Surely 10 seconds on the main thread isn't too bad? Or does this stop any user from using the tool?

From a UI perspective, a user will not notice anything.  The UI will function as expected.  This is not actually how it works, but this is the basic idea to illustrate the point. 

You can think of the problem like this.  Every request to build a CAD that gets sent to the server in the first 10 seconds while you are seeing the following 'processing' will delay your response by 10 seconds...

88104-0

That is the basic idea.  It is actually based on the requests that have been submitted before your request and your 'create LXC worker' process is queued until their workers have been created, but the timing details are harder to understand if explained that way... 

In short, it will only affect the build time of the CAD, not the functionality of the actual app...

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #319 on: Fri, 23 January 2015, 23:53:03 »
Starting to get a test plate together for testing all the different cutouts and configuration options.  I am planning to get a plate cut in 1.5mm aluminum and one in 5mm acrylic.  I think this should give us a pretty good idea where we are at.

Below is the layout I am looking to do (I will add a bunch of different holes as well in both 2 and 3 mm (ish) so I can get a feel for how kerf affects them as well.



Here is how I am rendering it.  I am rendering it with all combinations of options that I can think of.  I am also verifying the width of all the keys is actually correct. 

88440-1

I am not cutting every single spacebar size.  They all use the same formula, so as long as the Deskthority wiki is correct on spacing details, they should all be good.  I don't actually have the spacebars to actually test those other random sized spacebars, so that is just going to have to be the way it is.

Here is the code I am using to generate the plate (so far, this will get customized a bit because I still need to draw a bunch of rows of holes):
Code: [Select]
[{_t:0,_k:0.0},"_t:0\n_k:0",{_t:0,_k:0.05},"_t:0\n_k:.05",{_t:0,_k:0.1},"_t:0\n_k:.1",{_t:0,_k:0.15},"_t:0\n_k:.15",{_t:1,_k:0.0},"_t:1\n_k:0",{_t:1,_k:0.05},"_t:1\n_k:.05",{_t:1,_k:0.1},"_t:1\n_k:.1",{_t:1,_k:0.15},"_t:1\n_k:.15",{_t:1,_r:90,h:2,_k:0.05},"_t:1\n_k:.05",{_t:1,_r:90,_rs:180,h:2,_k:0.1},"_t:1\n_k:.1"],
[{_t:2,_k:0.0},"_t:2\n_k:0",{_t:2,_k:0.05},"_t:2\n_k:.05",{_t:2,_k:0.1},"_t:2\n_k:.1",{_t:2,_k:0.15},"_t:2\n_k:.15",{_t:3,_k:0.0},"_t:3\n_k:0",{_t:3,_k:0.05},"_t:3\n_k:.05",{_t:3,_k:0.1},"_t:3\n_k:.1",{_t:3,_k:0.15},"_t:3\n_k:.15"],
[{_t:0,w:2,_k:0.0},"_t:0\n_k:0",{_t:0,w:2,_k:0.05},"_t:0\n_k:.05",{_t:0,w:2,_k:0.1},"_t:0\n_k:.1",{_t:0,w:2,_k:0.15},"._t:0\n_k:.15",{_t:0,w:2,_k:0.2},"_t:0\n_k:.2"],
[{_t:0,w:1.25,_k:0.05},"_t:0\n_k:.05",{_t:0,w:1.75,_k:0.05},"_t:0\n_k:.05",{_t:1,w:2.25,_k:0.05},"_t:1\n_k:.05",{_t:2,w:2.75,_k:0.05},"_t:2\n_k:.05",{_t:2,_r:90,h:2,_k:0.05},"_t:2\n_k:.05",{_t:2,_r:90,_rs:180,h:2,_k:0.1},"_t:2\n_k:.1"],
[{_t:0,w:1.25,_k:0.1},"_t:0\n_k:.1",{_t:0,w:1.75,_k:0.1},"_t:0\n_k:.1",{_t:1,w:2.25,_k:0.1,_rs:180},"_t:1\n_k:.1",{_t:2,w:2.75,_k:0.1,_rs:180},"_t:2\n_k:.1"],
[{_t:0,w:1.5,_k:0.05},"_t:0\n_k:.05",{_t:1,w:7,_k:0.05},"_t:1\n_k:.05",{x:0.25,w:1.25,h:2,w2:1.5,h2:1,x2:-0.25,_t:0,_k:0.05},"_t:0\n_k:.05"],
[{_t:0,w:1.25,_k:0.025},"_t:0\n_k:.025",{_t:0,w:1.25,_k:0.075},"_t:0\n_k:.075",{_t:2,w:6.25,_k:0.05},"_t:2\n_k:.05"],
[{_t:0,w:1.5,_k:0.1},"_t:0\n_k:.1",{_t:1,w:7,_k:0.1},"_t:1\n_k:.1",{x:0.25,w:1.25,h:2,w2:1.5,h2:1,x2:-0.25,_t:0,_k:0.1},"_t:0\n_k:.1"],
[{_t:0,w:1.25,_k:0.125},"_t:0\n_k:.125",{_t:0,w:1.25,_k:0.175},"_t:0\n_k:.175",{_t:2,w:6.25,_k:0.1},"_t:2\n_k:.1"]

Let me know if you guys have comments.  If you notice something that I am missing, please let me know.  Most of the layout keys I only did it two kerf values just to make sure I got at least one working version so I could test the actual layout of the keys.  I am hoping I can get a good idea what kerf values will be ideal for the different materials with this.
« Last Edit: Sat, 24 January 2015, 00:01:03 by swill »

Offline Melvang

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #320 on: Fri, 23 January 2015, 23:57:46 »
Starting to get a test plate together for testing all the different cutouts and configuration options.  I am planning to get a plate cut in 1.5mm aluminum and one in 5mm acrylic.  I think this should give us a pretty good idea where we are at.

Below is the layout I am looking to do (I will add a bunch of different holes as well in both 2 and 3 mm (ish) so I can get a feel for how kerf affects them as well.

(Attachment Link)

Here is how I am rendering it.  I am rendering it with all combinations of options that I can think of.  I am also verifying the width of all the keys is actually correct. 

(Attachment Link)

I am not cutting every single spacebar size.  They all use the same formula, so as long as the Deskthority wiki is correct on spacing details, they should all be good.  I don't actually have the spacebars to actually test those other random sized spacebars, so that is just going to have to be the way it is.

Here is the code I am using to generate the plate (so far, this will get customized a bit because I still need to draw a bunch of rows of holes):
Code: [Select]
[{_t:0,_k:0.0},"_t:0\n_k:0",{_t:0,_k:0.05},"_t:0\n_k:.05",{_t:0,_k:0.1},"_t:0\n_k:.1",{_t:0,_k:0.15},"_t:0\n_k:.15",{_t:1,_k:0.0},"_t:1\n_k:0",{_t:1,_k:0.05},"_t:1\n_k:.05",{_t:1,_k:0.1},"_t:1\n_k:.1",{_t:1,_k:0.15},"_t:1\n_k:.15",{_t:1,_r:90,h:2,_k:0.05},"_t:1\n_k:.05",{_t:1,_r:90,_rs:180,h:2,_k:0.1},"_t:1\n_k:.1"],
[{_t:2,_k:0.0},"_t:2\n_k:0",{_t:2,_k:0.05},"_t:2\n_k:.05",{_t:2,_k:0.1},"_t:2\n_k:.1",{_t:2,_k:0.15},"_t:2\n_k:.15",{_t:3,_k:0.0},"_t:3\n_k:0",{_t:3,_k:0.05},"_t:3\n_k:.05",{_t:3,_k:0.1},"_t:3\n_k:.1",{_t:3,_k:0.15},"_t:3\n_k:.15"],
[{_t:0,w:2,_k:0.0},"_t:0\n_k:0",{_t:0,w:2,_k:0.05},"_t:0\n_k:.05",{_t:0,w:2,_k:0.1},"_t:0\n_k:.1",{_t:0,w:2,_k:0.15},"._t:0\n_k:.15",{_t:0,w:2,_k:0.2},"_t:0\n_k:.2"],
[{_t:0,w:1.25,_k:0.05},"_t:0\n_k:.05",{_t:0,w:1.75,_k:0.05},"_t:0\n_k:.05",{_t:0,w:2.25,_k:0.05},"_t:0\n_k:.05",{_t:0,w:2.75,_k:0.05},"_t:0\n_k:.05",{_t:2,_r:90,h:2,_k:0.05},"_t:2\n_k:.05",{_t:2,_r:90,_rs:180,h:2,_k:0.1},"_t:2\n_k:.1"],
[{_t:0,w:1.25,_k:0.1},"_t:0\n_k:.1",{_t:0,w:1.75,_k:0.1},"_t:0\n_k:.1",{_t:0,w:2.25,_k:0.1,_rs:180},"_t:0\n_k:.1",{_t:0,w:2.75,_k:0.1,_rs:180},"_t:0\n_k:.1"],
[{_t:0,w:1.5,_k:0.05},"_t:0\n_k:.05",{_t:1,w:7,_k:0.05},"_t:1\n_k:.05",{x:0.25,w:1.25,h:2,w2:1.5,h2:1,x2:-0.25,_t:0,_k:0.05},"_t:0\n_k:.05"],
[{_t:0,w:1.25,_k:0.025},"_t:0\n_k:.025",{_t:0,w:1.25,_k:0.075},"_t:0\n_k:.075",{_t:2,w:6.25,_k:0.05},"_t:2\n_k:.05"],
[{_t:0,w:1.5,_k:0.1},"_t:0\n_k:.1",{_t:1,w:7,_k:0.1},"_t:1\n_k:.1",{x:0.25,w:1.25,h:2,w2:1.5,h2:1,x2:-0.25,_t:0,_k:0.1},"_t:0\n_k:.1"],
[{_t:0,w:1.25,_k:0.125},"_t:0\n_k:.125",{_t:0,w:1.25,_k:0.175},"_t:0\n_k:.175",{_t:2,w:6.25,_k:0.1},"_t:2\n_k:.1"]

Let me know if you guys have comments.  If you notice something that I am missing, please let me know.  Most of the layout keys I only did it two kerf values just to make sure I got at least one working version so I could test the actual layout of the keys.  I am hoping I can get a good idea what kerf values will be ideal for the different materials with this.

What size space bars would you need?

I ordered the space bar pack on the toxic buy so I can loan you a few for testing.
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #321 on: Sat, 24 January 2015, 00:11:06 »
What size space bars would you need?

I ordered the space bar pack on the toxic buy so I can loan you a few for testing.

Right now I have the following center stem space bar stabilizer cutouts specified:
Code: [Select]
self.stabs = {
    "300":19.05-3.325, # 3 unit
    "400":28.575-3.325, # 4 unit
    "450":34.671-3.325, # 4.5 unit
    "550":42.8625-3.325, # 5.5 unit
    "625":50-3.325, # 6.25 unit
    "650":52.38-3.325, # 6.5 unit
    "700":57.15-3.325, # 7 unit
    "800":66.675-3.325, # 8 unit
    "900":66.675-3.325, # 9 unit
    "1000":66.675-3.325 # 10 unit
}
BTW, all these numbers come from here: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Space_bar_dimensions

8, 9 and 10 all have the same stem spacing, so if we have any of them, we can verify the stem spacing for all of them.

I know a lot of those are obscure, but I figured that if I had the specs for them I would add them.  I am considering picking up a 4 unit space bar from the R5 leftovers just so I have one and can play with that for some interesting bottom row layouts with the enabler PCBs.

Offline Dihedral

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #322 on: Sat, 24 January 2015, 03:26:40 »
Starting to get a test plate together for testing all the different cutouts and configuration options.  I am planning to get a plate cut in 1.5mm aluminum and one in 5mm acrylic.  I think this should give us a pretty good idea where we are at.

snip

Let me know if you guys have comments.  If you notice something that I am missing, please let me know.  Most of the layout keys I only did it two kerf values just to make sure I got at least one working version so I could test the actual layout of the keys.  I am hoping I can get a good idea what kerf values will be ideal for the different materials with this.

Nice! Where do you plan on getting it cut?

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #323 on: Sat, 24 January 2015, 07:37:00 »
Starting to get a test plate together for testing all the different cutouts and configuration options.  I am planning to get a plate cut in 1.5mm aluminum and one in 5mm acrylic.  I think this should give us a pretty good idea where we are at.

snip

Let me know if you guys have comments.  If you notice something that I am missing, please let me know.  Most of the layout keys I only did it two kerf values just to make sure I got at least one working version so I could test the actual layout of the keys.  I am hoping I can get a good idea what kerf values will be ideal for the different materials with this.

Nice! Where do you plan on getting it cut?
One of my local laser cutters. There are a few in Montreal. I have not used any of them yet, so I will try to compare them a bit and see which is best for small jobs.

Offline heedpantsnow

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #324 on: Sat, 24 January 2015, 07:43:42 »
Do you know if the kerf values for carbon fiber would be different?  I'm guessing somewhere between aluminum and acrylic but I have no idea.
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #325 on: Sat, 24 January 2015, 09:00:56 »
Do you know if the kerf values for carbon fiber would be different?  I'm guessing somewhere between aluminum and acrylic but I have no idea.
I'm not sure, but I will try to get more details before I get it cut. Hopefully they can give me a ballpark quote of the kerf for the different materials.

Offline Melvang

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #326 on: Sat, 24 January 2015, 10:00:31 »
Do you know if the kerf values for carbon fiber would be different?  I'm guessing somewhere between aluminum and acrylic but I have no idea.

I may be wrong but I don't think carbon fibre cuts with laser due to catching on fire and other properties.  It is also very hard on milling cutters, but cuts well but loose fibres from machining pose a health and environmental hazard to be dealt with.  Water jet is pretty popular from my experience.
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Offline heedpantsnow

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #327 on: Sat, 24 January 2015, 13:26:42 »

Do you know if the kerf values for carbon fiber would be different?  I'm guessing somewhere between aluminum and acrylic but I have no idea.

I may be wrong but I don't think carbon fibre cuts with laser due to catching on fire and other properties.  It is also very hard on milling cutters, but cuts well but loose fibres from machining pose a health and environmental hazard to be dealt with.  Water jet is pretty popular from my experience.

Thanks guys. I can mold it, but I'm a total idiot when it comes to milling it.

So will these files work for water jet cutting?
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Offline Melvang

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #328 on: Sat, 24 January 2015, 20:12:05 »
Should, but the kerf for waterjet is much larger than laser so that would need to be compensated for.
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #329 on: Sat, 24 January 2015, 21:14:19 »
Should, but the kerf for waterjet is much larger than laser so that would need to be compensated for.
Luckily we have fully configurable kerf settings now.

On that note, everything has been updated in my tool to reflect the kerf settings. Tonight I added the kerf setting calculation to the overall outside dimensions of the plate as well as the mount holes and their placement. The kerf settings are now addressed on all cutout edges supported by the tool.

I am traveling for work all week next week. I am going to see if I can get the sample plate cut completely remotely while I am out of town, but we will see. I just saw on the companies website I was planning to use that they don't laser metal (only CNC). I could get the acrylic done there though. I will check with other shops before I decide what I will do. I may put up what I have so people can play and I will just put a disclaimer that the cutouts are untested.

Offline Dihedral

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #330 on: Sun, 25 January 2015, 03:13:49 »
Should, but the kerf for waterjet is much larger than laser so that would need to be compensated for.
Luckily we have fully configurable kerf settings now.

On that note, everything has been updated in my tool to reflect the kerf settings. Tonight I added the kerf setting calculation to the overall outside dimensions of the plate as well as the mount holes and their placement. The kerf settings are now addressed on all cutout edges supported by the tool.

I am traveling for work all week next week. I am going to see if I can get the sample plate cut completely remotely while I am out of town, but we will see. I just saw on the companies website I was planning to use that they don't laser metal (only CNC). I could get the acrylic done there though. I will check with other shops before I decide what I will do. I may put up what I have so people can play and I will just put a disclaimer that the cutouts are untested.

You should put it up. I'd like to play with it, even if it might not actually be accurate.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #331 on: Sun, 25 January 2015, 13:27:02 »
ITS ALIVE: builder.swillkb.com

It will take 24-48 hours for the DNS to propagate to make this link work for everyone, but the DNS has been changed to point to the tool.

I have added a disclaimer at the top noting that the switch cutouts are still untested, so be aware of that...  If you cut a plate before I remove that disclaimer, you are doing so at your own risk.  Haha, if you do, please let us know how it went.  :P

Let me know if you have any questions, problems, etc... 

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #332 on: Sun, 25 January 2015, 13:36:37 »
ITS ALIVE: builder.swillkb.com

It will take 24-48 hours for the DNS to propagate to make this link work for everyone, but the DNS has been changed to point to the tool.

I have added a disclaimer at the top noting that the switch cutouts are still untested, so be aware of that...  If you cut a plate before I remove that disclaimer, you are doing so at your own risk.  Haha, if you do, please let us know how it went.  :P

Let me know if you have any questions, problems, etc...
Nice job, it was no easy task doing that.

Offline azhdar

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #333 on: Sun, 25 January 2015, 15:39:16 »
ITS ALIVE: builder.swillkb.com

It will take 24-48 hours for the DNS to propagate to make this link work for everyone, but the DNS has been changed to point to the tool.

I have added a disclaimer at the top noting that the switch cutouts are still untested, so be aware of that...  If you cut a plate before I remove that disclaimer, you are doing so at your own risk.  Haha, if you do, please let us know how it went.  :P

Let me know if you have any questions, problems, etc...
Nice swill , will play with it soon(tm).

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #334 on: Sun, 25 January 2015, 16:24:14 »
I think I have finished building my test plate.  I am going to try to get it cut next week.

Basically the only addition is the 2mm and 3mm holes at the bottom.  They start with 0.0 kerf and each section increases the kerf by 0.05mm for a final of 0.35mm kerf.  Hopefully this will give me enough data for both aluminum and acrylic for normal holes as well as holes that I can tap.

88654-0

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #335 on: Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:19:52 »
The only issue I can see so far is...

when building a 104-key plate, it doesn't truncate the plate at the top (above the numpad, to the right of the Pause key)

This is a specific use case, where the plate isn't wanted to be exactly rectangular.
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Offline Melvang

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #336 on: Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:23:32 »
I think this will be my first piece

http://tinyurl.com/oga9rzu
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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #337 on: Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:35:45 »
ITS ALIVE: builder.swillkb.com

It will take 24-48 hours for the DNS to propagate to make this link work for everyone, but the DNS has been changed to point to the tool.

I have added a disclaimer at the top noting that the switch cutouts are still untested, so be aware of that...  If you cut a plate before I remove that disclaimer, you are doing so at your own risk.  Haha, if you do, please let us know how it went.  :P

Let me know if you have any questions, problems, etc... 

Sweet..... i'm already fiddling with it =)
Thanks so much for doing this.

I think this will be my first piece

http://tinyurl.com/oga9rzu

The link doesn't work for me.
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Offline Melvang

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #338 on: Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:36:33 »
ITS ALIVE: builder.swillkb.com

It will take 24-48 hours for the DNS to propagate to make this link work for everyone, but the DNS has been changed to point to the tool.

I have added a disclaimer at the top noting that the switch cutouts are still untested, so be aware of that...  If you cut a plate before I remove that disclaimer, you are doing so at your own risk.  Haha, if you do, please let us know how it went.  :P

Let me know if you have any questions, problems, etc... 

Sweet..... i'm already fiddling with it =)
Thanks so much for doing this.

I think this will be my first piece

http://tinyurl.com/oga9rzu

The link doesn't work for me.

Code: [Select]
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/##@@=Esc&_x:1%3B&=F1&=F2&=F3&=F4&_x:2.25%3B&=Num%20Lock&=Delete&=%2F%2F&=*&=-&_x:1.75%3B&=F5&=F6&=F7&=F8&_x:0.5%3B&=F9&=F10&=F11&=F12%3B&@_y:0.5%3B&=~%0A%60&=!%0A1&=%2F@%0A2&=%23%0A3&=$%0A4&=%25%0A5&=%5E%0A6&_x:1.25%3B&=Home&=7%0AHome&=8%0A%E2%86%91&=9%0APgUp&=PgUp&_x:2.25%3B&=%2F&%0A7&=*%0A8&=(%0A9&=)%0A0&=%2F_%0A-&=+%0A%2F=&_w:2%3B&=Backspace%3B&@_w:1.5%3B&=Tab&=Q&=W&=E&=R&=T&_x:1.75%3B&=End&=4%0A%E2%86%90&=5&=6%0A%E2%86%92&=PgDn&_x:1.75%3B&=Y&=U&=I&=O&=P&=%7B%0A%5B&=%7D%0A%5D&_w:1.5%3B&=%7C%0A%5C%3B&@_w:1.75%3B&=Caps%20Lock&=A&=S&=D&=F&=G&_x:1.5&h:2%3B&=+&=1%0AEnd&=2%0A%E2%86%93&=3%0APgDn&_h:2%3B&=Enter&_x:2%3B&=H&=J&=K&=L&=%2F:%0A%2F%3B&=%22%0A'&_w:2.25%3B&=Enter%3B&@_w:2.25%3B&=Shift&=Z&=X&=C&=V&_x:3%3B&=0%0AIns&=%E2%86%91&=.%0ADel&_x:2.5%3B&=B&=N&=M&=%3C%0A,&=%3E%0A.&=%3F%0A%2F%2F&_w:2.75%3B&=Shift%3B&@_w:1.5%3B&=Ctrl&_w:1.5%3B&=Alt&_w:6.25%3B&=&=%E2%86%90&=%E2%86%93&=%E2%86%92&_w:6.25%3B&=&_w:1.5%3B&=Alt&=Win&=Menu&_w:1.5%3B&=Ctrl
« Last Edit: Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:39:33 by Melvang »
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #339 on: Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:38:15 »
The only issue I can see so far is...

when building a 104-key plate, it doesn't truncate the plate at the top (above the numpad, to the right of the Pause key)

This is a specific use case, where the plate isn't wanted to be exactly rectangular.
I had not thought of this use case.  Is there a specific case you are referring to that has that setup?

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #340 on: Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:41:22 »
I think this will be my first piece

http://tinyurl.com/oga9rzu
Crazy. Haha. :)

Why not 4 unit spacebars?  You can only get them from SP in SA, but might be something to consider to bring the size down a bit (if that was something you wanted to do).

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #341 on: Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:42:16 »
The only issue I can see so far is...

when building a 104-key plate, it doesn't truncate the plate at the top (above the numpad, to the right of the Pause key)

This is a specific use case, where the plate isn't wanted to be exactly rectangular.
I had not thought of this use case.  Is there a specific case you are referring to that has that setup?

Most 104-key keyboards, Filco, Rosewill, etc, have this area of the plate cut out. It's where the controller electronics are normally located, instead of, as in a TKL, the area above the cursor arrows.

« Last Edit: Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:44:52 by jdcarpe »
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #342 on: Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:42:47 »


I think this will be my first piece

http://tinyurl.com/oga9rzu

The link doesn't work for me.

Strange. That link worked for me.

Offline Evo_Spec

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #343 on: Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:45:22 »
Works on my phone for some reason....
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #344 on: Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:46:05 »
The only issue I can see so far is...

when building a 104-key plate, it doesn't truncate the plate at the top (above the numpad, to the right of the Pause key)

This is a specific use case, where the plate isn't wanted to be exactly rectangular.
I had not thought of this use case.  Is there a specific case you are referring to that has that setup?

Most 104-key keyboards, Filco, Rosewill, etc, have this area of the plate cut out. It's where the controller electronics are normally located, instead of, as in a TKL, the area above the cursor arrows.
Ahhh. Gotcha. I have not taken apart a full sized, so I did not realize that. Yes, when I do the mount hole support for existing full sized cases, I will add this cutout to that case type. I will slowly add case types with specific mount hole locations and static sized plates and you will basically be able to work in those constraints.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #345 on: Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:46:52 »
Works on my phone for some reason....
Oh. Haha. I am currently on my phone. I have not checked on my putter.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #346 on: Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:48:39 »
I am realizing that people will probably want to share their build links on my site. I need to do a bit of work, but once a plate has been drawn, I should be able to support that with my caching feature since it is a persistent server side cache.

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #347 on: Sun, 25 January 2015, 23:01:04 »
The ergodox plate looks sexy! lol

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #348 on: Sun, 25 January 2015, 23:05:29 »
The ergodox plate looks sexy! lol

Show Image


Haha, ergodox is not (yet) supported as you just found out.  I have not even looked at solving for rotated groups (although I do have the building blocks in place to handle it when I do look at it).  I also have spend some more time looking into the 'absolute positioning' stuff that the keyboard layout editor can do because right now I am building everything using relative positioning (how most of the keyboard-layout-editor works), but that tool also allows for keys to be absolute positioned, which I need to spend some time figuring out how to support.  Both of the thumb clusters of the ergodox layout are absolute positioned, so you can see how poorly I am handling that right now.  :)

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Re: swill's plate building tool
« Reply #349 on: Sun, 25 January 2015, 23:08:20 »
The ergodox plate looks sexy! lol

Show Image


Other than the initial switch cutout in the top left of both hands, I am actually very surprised how well the alphas are supported.  Thats makes me happy.  It should not be too difficult for me to get the alphas working well for the dox.  Then I just need to add rotational groups and absolute positioning and I will be rollin.