Originative's GMK Group Buy

[sherryton]

Hello GeekHackers!

We have 3 group buys going on.

http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets/products/handarbeit
http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets/products/cyrllic
http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets/products/gmk-rgb

The MOQ pricings are available on the links.

The Tier that is highlighted in red will show where we are at in the group buy.

Tiers (MOQ)   Handarbeit (87)          Tenkeypad          Winkeyless   HHKB   Windowed       Full Set
   1 (100)                  110                          26                   26             16                 26              195
   2 (200)                  100                          23.5                23.5          15                 23.5           180
   3 (400)                    85                          18                   18             13                 18              145

Tiers (MOQ)      Cyrllic (87)          Tenkeypad          Winkeyless   HHKB        Full Set
   1 (100)                  90                          18                   18             13                 130
   2 (200)                  85                          17                   17             12                 115
   3 (400)                  75                          15                   15             10                 95

Thanks!

[Latin00032]

Dat handerbeit! Must resist!

[Elrick]

Hello GeekHackers!

We have 3 group buys going on.

http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets-1/products/handarbeit
http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets-1/products/cyrllic
http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets-1/products/gmk-rgb

The MOQ pricings are available on the links.

The Tier that is highlighted in red will show where we are at in the group buy.

Thanks!

Okay Sherryton, if we select the items to purchase, can we pay via Paypal please?

[sherryton]

Hello GeekHackers!

We have 3 group buys going on.

http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets-1/products/handarbeit
http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets-1/products/cyrllic
http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets-1/products/gmk-rgb

The MOQ pricings are available on the links.

The Tier that is highlighted in red will show where we are at in the group buy.

Thanks!

Okay Sherryton, if we select the items to purchase, can we pay via Paypal please?

Trying to get that fixed.  Bitcoin will for sure be accepted.

[Latin00032]

For the Otaku key set:

Is there going to be a black dye sub option?

[danielucf]

How did you manage tiers below 400? Or are you just going to be buying 400 no matter what tier we hit? Something isn't adding up.

[bueller]

Or are you just going to be buying 400 no matter what tier we hit?

That is my understanding, Sherry is going to make up the remaining orders to meet MOQ.

[danielucf]

That is my understanding, Sherry is going to make up the remaining orders to meet MOQ.

So what is the group buy getting for us then? The opportunity to get them closer to cost and skip Originative upcharge only if the group buy breaks 400 tier during the group buy phase?

Because otherwise it just looks like we'd be helping to hit 400 at an increased price so it costs someone else less to buy those 400 sets...

If he intends to buy 400+ no matter what, then those who participate should get the 400 price no matter what. Oiler doesn't charge increased prices in his group buys when he is buying extras to carry on techkeys.us

I'll edit my post if I am wrong or misunderstanding

[metalliqaz]

Yeah, I thought the same thing.  Like "Group Buy" is the wrong wording... )

[YongJK]

If he is going to make up remaining sets until 400+
That's mean he is on his own cost.
I don't see issues for him to charge more.
Frankly speaking, no one wants their money "invested" with a long ROI.
Just my personal opinion.

[bueller]

If he intends to buy 400+ no matter what, then those who participate should get the 400 price no matter what.

So if there are 150 pre-orders and Sherry needs to order another 250 to meet MOQ he should pass long the savings to everyone? The man is running a business, I don't see any problem with the way the pricing tiers are structured. Oiler doesn't charge extra because he's not buying hundreds of kits just to meet MOQ, he's buying extras to sell in his store.

[metalliqaz]

Absolutely nothing wrong with that at all.  It's just not a GB

[danielucf]

If he intends to buy 400+ no matter what, then those who participate should get the 400 price no matter what.

So if there are 150 pre-orders and Sherry needs to order another 250 to meet MOQ he should pass long the savings to everyone? The man is running a business, I don't see any problem with the way the pricing tiers are structured. Oiler doesn't charge extra because he's not buying hundreds of kits just to meet MOQ, he's buying extras to sell in his store.

There is no difference except sherry is buying 250 extras instead of 50-100+. Passing on the savings is what our group buys are. If he isn't passing on the savings then it is just a regular sale that you can get in on early.

[SpAmRaY]

It should be obvious by now we can't reach MOQ on our own of we want GMK.

[bueller]

If he intends to buy 400+ no matter what, then those who participate should get the 400 price no matter what.

So if there are 150 pre-orders and Sherry needs to order another 250 to meet MOQ he should pass long the savings to everyone? The man is running a business, I don't see any problem with the way the pricing tiers are structured. Oiler doesn't charge extra because he's not buying hundreds of kits just to meet MOQ, he's buying extras to sell in his store.

There is no difference except sherry is buying 250 extras instead of 50-100+. Passing on the savings is what our group buys are. If he isn't passing on the savings then it is just a regular sale that you can get in on early.

You are getting some of the savings, but only the tier that pre-orders reach.

[BunnyLake]

the best way to think about it is this

think of it being a tax to guarantee the set happening, the lower orders we make, the more risk sherry takes on to make up the order, the more we order, the lower his risk, and the lower his risk is the lower the tax becomes

in an ideal world it would be a flat rate price of cost of 400 sets divided by 400, but if we want that, we wont get any more gmk sets, i3oiler can offer the sets at gb cost because that benefits him, the more he sells to us prior to purchase, the cheaper the tier is for him to buy sets for himself and his store( this isnt a dig at him, its a great way of him doing things for both him and us)

sherry is running a business, the difference between the tiers is marginal, but that little bit on top of cost is the price of getting him as a business, to facilitate the service of getting these keys made, something we as a community are failing to do, right or wrong, this is currently the cost of admission, and i personally would rather have a gmk set than not have one

[danielucf]

Let me put it like this with small numbers:

I want to buy 10 keyboards and I'm buying them no matter what at $10 a piece. $100 total
I offer to sell them as a group buy at $15 a piece for  up to 4, $13 a piece for up to 7, and at $11 a piece for 10+ to "reward" early adopters.
I sell only 5 of them at $15 = $75
I sell the rest of them when they all arrive at $16 since I don't want to make early buyers angry. + $80
I've sold all 10 totaling $155 instead of $110 if I had sold 10 in the "group buy".

It is also possible that I decided to order 15 instead of 10 since I made so much off of my "group buy" to subsidize the price of my other keyboards so I can make even more money.

Group buys are not to subsidize buying more of something or meeting high MOQs for less risk. A pre-sale in the vendor sub-forum would be the appropriate place for that.

In my opinion a group buy is supposed to be something that a community member wants to do for little to no gain. A couple free sets, maybe 1-5% profit if it is explained, or offered as an optional add-on like a tip.

Edit: I typed this out before BunnyLake's post

[BunnyLake]

Let me put it like this with small numbers:

I want to buy 10 keyboards and I'm buying them no matter what at $10 a piece. $100 total
I offer to sell them as a group buy at $15 a piece for  up to 4, $13 a piece for up to 7, and at $11 a piece for 10+ to "reward" early adopters.
I sell only 5 of them at $15 = $75
I sell the rest of them when they all arrive at $16 since I don't want to make early buyers angry. + $80
I've sold all 10 totaling $155 instead of $110 if I had sold 10 in the "group buy".

It is also possible that I decided to order 15 instead of 10 since I made so much off of my "group buy" to subsidize the price of my other keyboards so I can make even more money.

Group buys are not to subsidize buying more of something or meeting high MOQs for less risk. A pre-sale in the vendor sub-forum would be the appropriate place for that.

In my opinion a group buy is supposed to be something that a community member wants to do for little to no gain. A couple free sets, maybe 1-5% profit if it is explained, or offered as an optional add-on like a tip.

i totally agree with what is being said, but you also have to appreciate the scale

yes perhaps presale is indeed a better word for this
what you describe is all fair and correct, however when you scale that up, it becomes more complicated, if he presells 100 but lays out the money for 300 more, he is not making up 30% as described, but 300%, there is risk, and a huge time commitment, it could take him a long time to get his money back out, and he may need to offset as much of that as possible to make it happen

once again, im not trying to argue your point as incorrect, just trying to find a way to justify this, at the end of the day, we all want the same thing, gmk sets, i would rather pay 10 dollars more than have no option to buy one in the first place

[IPT]

In a normal SP GB, daniel's point makes sense

the problem is with GMK's high MOQ, its not possible to operate the same way in a GB.
Is it really the term "Group Buy" that's bugging you?  Would you rather he just name it "presale"?
would that make you feel better then?  I mean seriously.

[danielucf]

i totally agree with what is being said, but you also have to appreciate the scale

yes perhaps presale is indeed a better word for this
what you describe is all fair and correct, however when you scale that up, it becomes more complicated, if he presells 100 but lays out the money for 300 more, he is not making up 30% as described, but 300%, there is risk, and a huge time commitment, it could take him a long time to get his money back out, and he may need to offset as much of that as possible to make it happen

once again, im not trying to argue your point as incorrect, just trying to find a way to justify this, at the end of the day, we all want the same thing, gmk sets, i would rather pay 10 dollars more than have no option to buy one in the first place

This just doesn't seem like the right way to do it. I know we as a community would rather have the sets available instead of not available. In the past though the Originative plan was to buy the sets no matter what so this pricing structure makes no sense. Especially forcing people to pay up front and then get a refund if a cheaper tier is "achieved" since the plan is to buy 400 anyways. The really high prices makes it seem more like a MOQ for one set that has 87 key, Numpad, Winkeyless, and HHKB keys and he is separating them out to additionally sell. That way if he can't sell 400 HHKB sets it doesn't matter because they are already paid for.

In a normal SP GB, daniel's point makes sense

the problem is with GMK's high MOQ, its not possible to operate the same way in a GB.
Is it really the term "Group Buy" that's bugging you?  Would you rather he just name it "presale"?
would that make you feel better then?  I mean seriously.

You make it sound so simple, but "group buy" has certain connotations that absolutely do not apply here.

Dolch is a simple colorway and an 87 key set sells/sold for $95 at 87 keys or $145 for all 110**. Prior to that we had classic beige at $100 for 110 keys, classic beige with blue legends at $100 for 110keys, and Charred orange at $95 for 110 keys. What changed with Dolch over the other GMK sets that came before? We know there was profit for the $95 and $100 sets since the information on what sets cost from GMK at 400, 800, and I think 1000 tiers was made available.

If Originative can sell Handarbeit at $85 for 87 keys at MOQ of 400 during the "group buy" then what price would he sell on the website for? If the "group buy" is below 200 sets then he has to sell at above $110 per 87 key set otherwise those participating in the buy will have paid more than the website price. This would be another new high above even Dolch.

This all goes out the window if new MOQs with GMK are now starting at 100 sets and growing from there....

**It is not clear exactly what the winkeyless kit comes with but it seems four 1.5x modifiers, a stepped capslock, and a 7x spacebar

[IPT]

so if he named it "preorder" and sold it at these prices, then sold people afterwards whatever higher prices, you'll be ok with this?
Or are you just upset that he's making $$?

[YongJK]

Who cares man, as long as the pricing is reasonable.
If it's not sherry, who is gonna do all these GMK GB?
Consider he is running business and operates store, I am absolutely fine for whatever he earns.

[gojira54]

I don't like some of the legends & lack of ISO extras so won't be partaking.. good luck with the GB tho.
Pays your money takes your choice

[LONGZILLA]

Is there any difference in color between the GMK RGB here and the ones over at EK?

[Dubsgalore]

Sherry make the RGB sets in A profile 

Handarbeit is looking nice, I wish Cryllic was in Classic Beige and not BoW, but It'll be the second of the two if i can squeeze it in to my order

[danielucf]

so if he named it "preorder" and sold it at these prices, then sold people afterwards whatever higher prices, you'll be ok with this?
Or are you just upset that he's making $$?

What doesn't seem right is "Hey if you participate and we get 400 people you can pay less, but if you participate and we get less people up front and I still order 400 you will pay more. Those participating in the group buy to help get it closer to 400 should be rewarded with the lower price since 400 sets will be ordered no matter what, this would actually make more people sign up sooner and balance the risk.

On top of these sets costing considerably more than previous sets for no obvious reason. I have my suspicions that Dolch, etc. cost more to subsidize more keys and make sure they get paid for, and then when they actually sell it is all profit. As if I were selling you an 87 key set for the price of a 110 key set, then I turn and sell the numpad keys and winkeyless keys separately.

[kenmai9]

Sherry make the RGB sets in A profile 

What does that mean? What profile are EK's?

[ideus]

so if he named it "preorder" and sold it at these prices, then sold people afterwards whatever higher prices, you'll be ok with this?
Or are you just upset that he's making $$?

What doesn't seem right is "Hey if you participate and we get 400 people you can pay less, but if you participate and we get less people up front and I still order 400 you will pay more. Those participating in the group buy to help get it closer to 400 should be rewarded with the lower price since 400 sets will be ordered no matter what, this would actually make more people sign up sooner and balance the risk.

On top of these sets costing considerably more than previous sets for no obvious reason. I have my suspicions that Dolch, etc. cost more to subsidize more keys and make sure they get paid for, and then when they actually sell it is all profit. As if I were selling you an 87 key set for the price of a 110 key set, then I turn and sell the numpad keys and winkeyless keys separately.

it appears that you just "realized" that Originative is a business...

[danielucf]

so if he named it "preorder" and sold it at these prices, then sold people afterwards whatever higher prices, you'll be ok with this?
Or are you just upset that he's making $$?

What doesn't seem right is "Hey if you participate and we get 400 people you can pay less, but if you participate and we get less people up front and I still order 400 you will pay more. Those participating in the group buy to help get it closer to 400 should be rewarded with the lower price since 400 sets will be ordered no matter what, this would actually make more people sign up sooner and balance the risk.

On top of these sets costing considerably more than previous sets for no obvious reason. I have my suspicions that Dolch, etc. cost more to subsidize more keys and make sure they get paid for, and then when they actually sell it is all profit. As if I were selling you an 87 key set for the price of a 110 key set, then I turn and sell the numpad keys and winkeyless keys separately.

it appears that you just "realized" that Originative is a business...

Most businesses don't charge you for something, not give it to you, and then sell it to you as an add on since you wanted it in the first place.

Unless this is an acceptable business model change:
Old Charred orange set (consisted of 87 keyset, numpad, and winkeyless keys) 110 keys total $95
New Charred orange set 87 keys $95, numpad 17 keys $25, winkeyless 6 keys $25 - total 110 keys $145 but now you don't have to buy things you don't want........

If this is where GMK buys through Originative are heading then count me out. I don't want to pay about 52% more money for essentially the same item as before. Don't swallow this pill just because "he is running a business and assuming risk". He will sell out all keys eventually and was already making around 20-25% profit selling at $95. Not much risk there meaning he would only have to sell around 300-320 out of 400 sets to break even at the $95 dollar price

ಠ_ಠ

[IPT]

so if he named it "preorder" and sold it at these prices, then sold people afterwards whatever higher prices, you'll be ok with this?
Or are you just upset that he's making $$?

What doesn't seem right is "Hey if you participate and we get 400 people you can pay less, but if you participate and we get less people up front and I still order 400 you will pay more. Those participating in the group buy to help get it closer to 400 should be rewarded with the lower price since 400 sets will be ordered no matter what, this would actually make more people sign up sooner and balance the risk.

On top of these sets costing considerably more than previous sets for no obvious reason. I have my suspicions that Dolch, etc. cost more to subsidize more keys and make sure they get paid for, and then when they actually sell it is all profit. As if I were selling you an 87 key set for the price of a 110 key set, then I turn and sell the numpad keys and winkeyless keys separately.

You will pay more but you'll get the keys
as oppose to "you won't pay more, and you won't get the keys"
look at how Ivan's tried to run GMK GBs.
How frustrating its been to get to the MOQ.

You bring up Boiler's method of buying, I haven't seen Boiler try to get any sets from GMK yet.
With the difficulty in hitting the 400 MOQ for GMK, i honestly don't see a problem with how Originative is trying to run this GB.

He's basically saying "look, if we hit that 400MOQ, great everyone gets cheaper caps.  If we stall out around 200 orders, i'll still order up to 400 and you'll pay the slightly higher cost to offset me sitting on stock for a long time to get my $$ back"

If you want the rare caps, you have to find ways to get them.  Until someone on GH can run a successful 400MOQ order from GMK, I see this as the only option for a vender to front the cost up front in exchange for profit down the road.

[danielucf]

Until someone on GH can run a successful 400MOQ order from GMK, I see this as the only option for a vender to front the cost up front in exchange for profit down the road.

If we were not trying to cater to 5-10% of the community that wanted language packs and/or iso keys just as Originative has done, then we probably would have had two successful GMK buys under our belt as a community throughout 2013.

[IPT]

Until someone on GH can run a successful 400MOQ order from GMK, I see this as the only option for a vender to front the cost up front in exchange for profit down the road.

If we were not trying to cater to 5-10% of the community that wanted language packs and/or iso keys just as Originative has done, then we probably would have had two successful GMK buys under our belt as a community throughout 2013.

considering the GB organizer is the one who wants the language pack and what not, this is difficult to do.
Unless someone else steps up to do it.  Not to mention how many GBs have over 400 orders?
I haven't seen a full keycap GB even with SP that went over 400 order recently.

Just a quick search, raindrop had 162 alphas ordered, Lily in the GB had over 75 sets ordered, maybe boiler ordered to 100 sets.  Same with Turtle Power.
Klaxon had 150+ RoW Base sets and 50+ WoR, but RoW didn't hit 200+ and WoR didn't hit 100+, Valentine had around 100 sets, Cherry Replicas i don't think were pass 300 total.

[danielucf]

Until someone on GH can run a successful 400MOQ order from GMK, I see this as the only option for a vender to front the cost up front in exchange for profit down the road.

If we were not trying to cater to 5-10% of the community that wanted language packs and/or iso keys just as Originative has done, then we probably would have had two successful GMK buys under our belt as a community throughout 2013.

considering the GB organizer is the one who wants the language pack and what not, this is difficult to do.
Unless someone else steps up to do it.  Not to mention how many GBs have over 400 orders?
I haven't seen a full keycap GB even with SP that went over 400 order recently.

Just a quick search, raindrop had 162 alphas ordered, Lily in the GB had over 75 sets ordered, maybe boiler ordered to 100 sets.  Same with Turtle Power.
Klaxon had 150+ RoW Base sets and 50+ WoR, but RoW didn't hit 200+ and WoR didn't hit 100+, Valentine had around 100 sets, Cherry Replicas i don't think were pass 300 total.

You have not looked at Toxic have you. Over 600 of the base set and 500 of the modifiers. Yes those numbers will drop off a bit because of people falling out of interest in keyboards, but it will also pick up some last second orders as well. If it wasn't for the unique color we want to run we would have done it through GMK already. It can be done with patience and a 4-6 month group buy, or possibly a one month MassDrop.

[IPT]

Until someone on GH can run a successful 400MOQ order from GMK, I see this as the only option for a vender to front the cost up front in exchange for profit down the road.

If we were not trying to cater to 5-10% of the community that wanted language packs and/or iso keys just as Originative has done, then we probably would have had two successful GMK buys under our belt as a community throughout 2013.

considering the GB organizer is the one who wants the language pack and what not, this is difficult to do.
Unless someone else steps up to do it.  Not to mention how many GBs have over 400 orders?
I haven't seen a full keycap GB even with SP that went over 400 order recently.

Just a quick search, raindrop had 162 alphas ordered, Lily in the GB had over 75 sets ordered, maybe boiler ordered to 100 sets.  Same with Turtle Power.
Klaxon had 150+ RoW Base sets and 50+ WoR, but RoW didn't hit 200+ and WoR didn't hit 100+, Valentine had around 100 sets, Cherry Replicas i don't think were pass 300 total.

You have not looked at Toxic have you. Over 600 of the base set and 500 of the modifiers. Yes those numbers will drop off a bit because of people falling out of interest in keyboards, but it will also pick up some last second orders as well. If it wasn't for the unique color we want to run we would have done it through GMK already. It can be done with patience and a 4-6 month group buy, or possibly a one month MassDrop.

I listed those that were completed.
I have looked at toxic, i originally placed an order with you a while ago, but saw the color wasn't what I was expecting (i liked a more lime green than the yellow the sample keys came in) so i cancelled my order.

no offense, but of all the orders placed on your Toxic GB, how many do you think are still in and how many possibly have dropped out?
You're going on close to 1 year on your GB, how many of those orders are from people who still even come to GH?
Until your order is placed and in production, your GB imo is a little further along in the IC phase.

But if you're able to hit that over 400 MOQ on the purchase, that's more power to ya and hopefully that'll signal more great keysets to come.

[IvanIvanovich]

It's a lot easier to get high order amount when cheap price... if GMK price was like Tai Hao we probably would be doing like 1000 set orders. From my perspective, the biggest problem is people simply put off by the cost of GMK keys first, then after this complain about what key selection is available whether it be complain too many keys, or lack of particular ones for their desire.
You have two distinct groups that need to be catered to on as much balance as is possible. First group is ones that want basic keyset for cheap price. Second is people that want more 'specialized' sets with winkeyless, other language keys, etc. You need both those groups to make such high MOQ success I think.
The only other way to make it work right now is going with the knowledge that you are not going to reach the MOQ, and using higher tiered pricing to subsidize the extra sets that have to be ordered to make them at all.

[danielucf]

It's a lot easier to get high order amount when cheap price... if GMK price was like Tai Hao we probably would be doing like 1000 set orders. From my perspective, the biggest problem is people simply put off by the cost of GMK keys first, then after this complain about what key selection is available whether it be complain too many keys, or lack of particular ones for their desire.
You have two distinct groups that need to be catered to on as much balance as is possible. First group is ones that want basic keyset for cheap price. Second is people that want more 'specialized' sets with winkeyless, other language keys, etc. You need both those groups to make such high MOQ success I think.
The only other way to make it work right now is going with the knowledge that you are not going to reach the MOQ, and using higher tiered pricing to subsidize the extra sets that have to be ordered to make them at all.

Right, but we as a community at geekhack have not had a regular 110 + generic iso group buy yet and jumped straight into trying to support way too many extra keys, split into too many sets, trying to support multiple languages. If we just do a 115 set (assuming generic iso is 4 or 5 keys) I think we wouldn't have a problem hitting 400 MOQ at around $90 a set before shipping, especially once people see the new prices from Originative where 110 key sets are $145 

[MOZ]

For GMK, I truly believe in going for complete ~120 key sets which have 1.25/1.5/Short Right shift+Fn/ISO, to save on sorting and get the best price possible. This would also mean better resale as one has the complete set.

[IvanIvanovich]

Europeans don't want some half assed **** is the big problem there. ISO is not the same thing as German, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Norwegian, Swedish/Finnish, etc. From my conversations with many of those users they are not at all interested in US ISO layout sets and don't wish to buy them. Just as when you can often find German doubleshot set for cheap on old G80, many US ANSI user won't buy that even if you could get a blank 1.5 key to stand in for the \|, and enter and 2.25 shift for their ANSI board.
Personally I don't understand why the hell every layout has totally different placement on things for NO REASON but that is what the idiots on their standards committees decided on back decades ago and it's very hard to do anything about that now since people are 'used to it'.
It would have been a lot simpler if all the shared alphas, and punctuations were on the same damn numerics at the least so only few character on each were needed but no that's too easy.
It's what I originally proposed on the base generic set with numbers only numeric row but it seemed the majority didn't like that idea at all so I changed it... but not everyone liked that either.

[MOZ]

I mentioned this in your thread as well, I think a Full 104 set + Language pack would be the same as getting the different packs right now for given language.

[ideus]

so if he named it "preorder" and sold it at these prices, then sold people afterwards whatever higher prices, you'll be ok with this?
Or are you just upset that he's making $$?

What doesn't seem right is "Hey if you participate and we get 400 people you can pay less, but if you participate and we get less people up front and I still order 400 you will pay more. Those participating in the group buy to help get it closer to 400 should be rewarded with the lower price since 400 sets will be ordered no matter what, this would actually make more people sign up sooner and balance the risk.

On top of these sets costing considerably more than previous sets for no obvious reason. I have my suspicions that Dolch, etc. cost more to subsidize more keys and make sure they get paid for, and then when they actually sell it is all profit. As if I were selling you an 87 key set for the price of a 110 key set, then I turn and sell the numpad keys and winkeyless keys separately.

it appears that you just "realized" that Originative is a business...

Most businesses don't charge you for something, not give it to you, and then sell it to you as an add on since you wanted it in the first place.

Unless this is an acceptable business model change:
Old Charred orange set (consisted of 87 keyset, numpad, and winkeyless keys) 110 keys total $95
New Charred orange set 87 keys $95, numpad 17 keys $25, winkeyless 6 keys $25 - total 110 keys $145 but now you don't have to buy things you don't want........

If this is where GMK buys through Originative are heading then count me out. I don't want to pay about 52% more money for essentially the same item as before. Don't swallow this pill just because "he is running a business and assuming risk". He will sell out all keys eventually and was already making around 20-25% profit selling at $95. Not much risk there meaning he would only have to sell around 300-320 out of 400 sets to break even at the $95 dollar price

ಠ_ಠ

You have a point on that. Problem is many GHers are jumping into the "offer", what can we do against that? To be senseless is an illness very hard to treat. Haha!

[ideus]

Europeans don't want some half assed **** is the big problem there. ISO is not the same thing as German, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Norwegian, Swedish/Finnish, etc. From my conversations with many of those users they are not at all interested in US ISO layout sets and don't wish to buy them. Just as when you can often find German doubleshot set for cheap on old G80, many US ANSI user won't buy that even if you could get a blank 1.5 key to stand in for the \|, and enter and 2.25 shift for their ANSI board.
Personally I don't understand why the hell every layout has totally different placement on things for NO REASON but that is what the idiots on their standards committees decided on back decades ago and it's very hard to do anything about that now since people are 'used to it'.
It would have been a lot simpler if all the shared alphas, and punctuations were on the same damn numerics at the least so only few character on each were needed but no that's too easy.
It's what I originally proposed on the base generic set with numbers only numeric row but it seemed the majority didn't like that idea at all so I changed it... but not everyone liked that either.

I write in two different languages besides English and I always use US international as a setting, thus, what I only need is and AltGr mod keycap. I do not see the point to stick to a custom language keyboard and having all the issues that come when trying to replace a set of caps.

[bazemk1979]

Until someone on GH can run a successful 400MOQ order from GMK, I see this as the only option for a vender to front the cost up front in exchange for profit down the road.

If we were not trying to cater to 5-10% of the community that wanted language packs and/or iso keys just as Originative has done, then we probably would have had two successful GMK buys under our belt as a community throughout 2013.

ISO was fine, we have bunch of ANSI & ISO English users, I'm speaking of the ISO + 3 or 4 keys  that comes with it. As for the language packs was a failure from the get go, all languages barely reached 15 orders, yea 3-4 peeps made noise and language packs were considered and I'm fine with it because they are separate from the ANSI set.

Now what really messed up the GB is all the extra bling keys, and I'm not speaking of the ISO enter + 3 keys, I'm speaking of all other keys that 5-6 peeps were saying well I want CTRL instead of caps, or windowed caps or Alt Gr and what not else.... So all of this brought prices to $170 shipped for  complete set ANSI/ISO US/GB set.... I spoke and said this is not right, but 4-5 peeps and Ivan said either we have all the bling keys or no GB, and we saw the outcome of the GB..... down the drain.

Not to bash any GB organizer, but do the GB participants know that cost for 2 tone retro style color for GMK 104 set is around $50-$60.... can't speak of the Handerbeit price, its multicolored and I'm sure must cost good 10%-15% more than the standard 2 tone retro.

What I don't understand about Sherry's GB now is why you do your GB trough your store and making people pay the premium price from the get go?  I mean whats the point of the headache if we reach MOQ of 400? He have to start refunding everybody after that..... This business approach gets people turned off since its a GB but its not collecting votes, but collecting premium pre purchase prices.....  Don't make me pay premium while GB is going to last till mid January.... I hate locking my money into something that will take up to 4 months and I don't know what will the final cost of it.

Why don't you just get GB votes going instead charging our debit/credit cards that is yet to happen + we don't know the final pricing.... whats the point of holding peoples money and then end up refunding bunch of them....

[botay46]

thank you danielucf  )

[danielucf]

It would make more sense to charge the cheapest price, with the understanding that an additional payment for a higher price may be required in the future.

A little bit more information and insight into the pricing would go a LONG way with this "group buy" presale or what ever you want to call it. If there is no funny business going on then it shouldn't be a problem to explain how everything works, and why prices skyrocketed from the earlier sets and then to Dolch and now these newer sets. We all know that a nice pair of sunglasses costs most manufacturers a couple dollars but that doesn't stop us from shelling out $100+ to get those name brand glasses.

[bazemk1979]

Its still a no go Daniel even if he charges the minimum.... lets say we only reach 100 MOQ, then he will need to send most likely paypal invoices so we can pay the difference. Its like going back and forth, He should open GB as every other one with votes, explain the price tiers and people will join in hope to reach at least the 200 tiers, 400 is far fetch with this set cause of the color combos.

As for the price increase, why you asking question when you know the answer to it.... its all about making money, once again 2 tone GMK full set cost around $50-$60, even Ivan prices are little fishy....

[danielucf]

As for the price increase, why you asking question when you know the answer to it.... its all about making money, once again 2 tone GMK full set cost around $50-$60, even Ivan prices are little fishy....

I thought 400 tier 110 sets were around $78. I could be remembering wrong. It is buried somewhere in the Cherry set interest check thread.

[bueller]

I think you guys are being a bit silly to be honest, from the sounds of things you just want Sherry to open up his books so that you can approve of how much money he's making. If you're not interested at the pricing tiers offered then no one is forcing you.

[bazemk1979]

Bueller you don't read up much do you? Its not a GB if you pay the premium price for the item on engaging the GB. It should be only joining not charging ur card at get go, why he needs the money a month and a half in advance?........

[bueller]

Bueller you don't read up much do you?

How very condescending of you, I've read the whole thread thanks.

Its not a GB if you pay the premium price for the item on engaging the GB.

GB's take many different shapes and forms, if you don't agree with the terms or pricing then don't participate.

why he needs the money a month and a half in advance?........

Probably to guarantee people are actually serious about ordering? I have no problem with paying up front and getting a refund later when he figures out how many orders he's making up to meet MOQ. He's put a lot of time and effort into bringing us GMK sets and people do nothing but piss and moan about how he does business. Making comparisons to previous set pricings is pretty silly IMO, for all we know he could have looked over the books for the previous year and realised that he wasn't doing good business. Does that mean he needs to come in here and justify how his pricing is worked out? That is asking for too much transparency in my opinion.

[ninjadoc]

How did you manage tiers below 400? Or are you just going to be buying 400 no matter what tier we hit? Something isn't adding up.

He is running a business. If you run a business you usually either want a profit or to at least break even. The only way GMK will sell product is with a 400 MOQ. He is passing on the savings that we create by making it to a certain number of sets. He then takes the risk of purchasing whatever is required after that to reach the MOQ of 400. If you assume we purchase enough for 150 full sets and he has to buy 250 full sets it is $50,000 that he is betting that he can sell give or take $5000 or so. I can't begrudge the man for at least trying to make some money out of his risk. I don't have 50K lying around to bet on me making a few dollars but if you do that's great.
I for one don't care what he calls it - group buy, preorder, a chance to buy GMK keys, the opportunity for Originative to be in the black - it doesn't matter. It has been hard to impossible for Geekhack or Deskthority to meet GMK's MOQ's and us to have an opportunity to purchase a GMK keyset.
If you don't like it - don't buy it. Or if you have a problem with Sherry, take it up with him. Let's not clog up his thread with semantics of what exactly this is.