[IC] SPACE EXTENDED - NEW SA Doubleshot Font Project

[CQ_Cumbers]

Space Extended is a new Eurostile inspired font for SA profile keycaps that Oobly, together with CQ_Cumbers, has recently developed.

Eurostile has been a perennially futuristic choice of typeface for movies, video games, and (of course) keyboards since the 1950s, and with its distinctive wide, thick, slightly curved lines, it provides a great counterpoint to the narrow, thin, and straight Gorton Modified (used in Jukebox) that is currently the only font option Signature Plastics has for SA profile keycaps. While Gorton is a decent looking font that suits a number of classic keyset designs, cutting SA doubleshot legends for Space Extended will provide more options and greater flexibility for set designers, opening up possibilities for sets that could not have been made before, especially those inspired by science and science fiction. We originally created this font for the Classic Space set, to emulate the font used on the original Lego pieces that set is inspired by, but Space Extended is certainly not limited to Lego - it has been used in everything from 2001: A Space Odyssey to the Valentine Typewriter and the Commodore PET, and we hope it can be just as versatile among SA keycap designs. If funded, the legends will be available to all future group buys, giving designers a larger palette to paint their creative visions with.  It's really time we raised the bar for what can be done in SA.



Note that the renders are almost but not quite final, as some may need more adjusting to SP's specifications, but overall the design of the legends should not change significantly

Renders of Classic Space, the first keycap set that will use this font, are coming soon.

Inspiration


From The Lego Movie


From 2001: A Space Odyssey


From the Olivetti Valentine


From the Commodore PET


Fundraising Plans

To make it possible, however, we will need your support. The main factor preventing new fonts from being introduced is cost: molds for keycap legends are $50 per key, and with 104 keys for just a basic ANSI layout, this will be a large project, but one with a potentially huge payoff for all keyboard enthusiasts. To this end, we plan on running a group buy for a limited edition 2016: A Space Extended Adventure set of keycaps, inspired by the screens of HAL 9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. These will probably cost significantly more than other novelty keycaps, so think of them more as a thank-you for supporting the costs of making the legends. If this is not enough, we plan on setting up a lottery for the first test set produced with this new font, the unique color scheme of which you can find below. If you win this, you will end up owning a piece of keyboard history, the first completely non-Gorton SA profile set to come from Signature Plastic's molds, and a one-off design that will be yours to keep! Note that these are plans, however, not promises, and we will have to wait until Oobly is available again (in one or two weeks) before running anything. The purpose of this interest check, like other interest checks, is to gauge community support and gather feedback on the font and the planned fundraising kit, before actually running them.


A preliminary render of the proposed 2016: A Space Extended Adventure fundraising keycap set.

Renders of the one-off test set are coming soon!

Summary

• Space Extended is a set of doubleshot legends for all SA keycaps in a font inspired by Eurostile
• Molds for these legends will cost us $50 per key. Out initial goal is to first fund all the legends for a standard full-size 104-key ANSI board, generic / UK ISO, and winkeyless kits.
• Current plans are to run a 2016: A Space Extended Adventure set of novelty keys as a group buy to support the font effort. These will cost significantly more than typical novelty keys, so think of them more as a thank-you for supporting the project. If this is not enough money, we plan on setting up a test set lottery, which you will be able to enter for a chance to win the first test set made in this new font (keyboard history!)
• If funding succeeds, other keycap designers will be free to use the font after Classic Space runs
• The fundraiser is not running yet. The purpose of the interest check now is to gauge community interest and gather feedback

It will take some time for all the legends and the fundraising set to be approved, more time for the group buy to run, and even more time to cut the legends and check errors on the test set, before Classic Space, the first keycap set design with Space Extended, can run. We will update this thread as we progress. Please comment below if you are interested in supporting the Space Extended legends project, and if you have any questions, opinions, impressions, or suggestions about the font or the fundraising set; we sincerely appreciate any feedback!

[Waateva]

I would be interested in the Massdrop set and/or a raffle.

[tofgerl]

Please make an "atm machine" key!!!!

[Jedi]

TLDR; so are we fundraising and what do you need from us for this.  I was just talking about this set to a friend today and really excited to see we're almost there

[CQ_Cumbers]

TLDR; so are we fundraising and what do you need from us for this.  I was just talking about this set to a friend today and really excited to see we're almost there

We're not fundraising yet. We plan to do that through a special fundraising keycaps group buy, which will wait until Oobly is available again - which is at least after New Year's. For now, I am looking to gauge interest in the font, and gather feedback and opinions about the font and the proposed HAL themed fundraising keycap set.

[romevi]

TLDR

lol Same.

[CQ_Cumbers]

TLDR

lol Same.

If you need to, read the summary bullet points at the end of the post. I just wanted to include some pictures of the inspiration, and renders of the font and the HAL themed fundraising keycap set. Sorry!

[romevi]

TLDR

lol Same.

If you need to, read the summary bullet points at the end of the post. I just wanted to include some pictures of the inspiration, and renders of the font and the HAL themed fundraising keycap set. Sorry!

I will! I was just confused because I thought earlier a whole new LEGO-themed keyset was going to be made, but I haven't kept up with that thread in a while. Now it seems that won't be the case, but I haven't read this new thread yet.

[Jedi]

Call us anxious CQ_Cumbers, we're watching the progress from the HYPE center here on geekhack.  Expect a little knee jerk when we see something new posted =)

[CQ_Cumbers]

TLDR

lol Same.

If you need to, read the summary bullet points at the end of the post. I just wanted to include some pictures of the inspiration, and renders of the font and the HAL themed fundraising keycap set. Sorry!

I will! I was just confused because I thought earlier a whole new LEGO-themed keyset was going to be made, but I haven't kept up with that thread in a while. Now it seems that won't be the case, but I haven't read this new thread yet.

Classic Space is still going - it will be the first full keyset to use this Space Extended font, after the font is funded. The HAL themed 2016: A Space Extended Adventure keycaps are a planned means of funding the font. This way, the Classic Space group buy doesn't need to have exceptionally high prices or minimum orders to succeed, and you don't have to buy Classic Space to support Space Extended, a font which I think will be useful for the whole community, not just one set.

[Waateva]

TLDR

lol Same.

If you need to, read the summary bullet points at the end of the post. I just wanted to include some pictures of the inspiration, and renders of the font and the HAL themed fundraising keycap set. Sorry!

I will! I was just confused because I thought earlier a whole new LEGO-themed keyset was going to be made, but I haven't kept up with that thread in a while. Now it seems that won't be the case, but I haven't read this new thread yet.

Classic Space is still going - it will be the first full keyset to use this Space Extended font, after the font is funded. The HAL themed 2016: A Space Extended Adventure keycaps are a planned means of funding the font. This way, the Classic Space group buy doesn't need to have exceptionally high prices or minimum orders to succeed, and you don't have to buy Classic Space to support Space Extended, a font which I think will be useful for the whole community, not just one set.

Good explanation mate

[tofgerl]

Makes sense, even though I think more people would have paid extra for the Classic Space set than want the HAL-set. Of course, a lot of people might want to fund the font even if they're not wild about HAL, so that might bring the figures up.

Any idea how many sets would need to be sold at what price? 104x$50 is $5200, and that's not so bad, but then the production of the HAL sets come into it as well...

[Steezus]

I'm in for Classic Space but don't have the funds to support both. I would honestly be fine with having to sell a few items and just pay the higher prices for Classic Space if it means I would get the set faster. It seems now that Classic Space will further be delayed until this set is complete. Best of luck though!

[CQ_Cumbers]

I'm in for Classic Space but don't have the funds to support both. I would honestly be fine with having to sell a few items and just pay the higher prices for Classic Space if it means I would get the set faster. It seems now that Classic Space will further be delayed until this set is complete. Best of luck though!

Unfortunately, funding the font by raising the price of Classic Space is probably impossible, as designers are only paid ~5% of sales, so we would need to sell more than $120,000.00 worth of Classic Space sets to get the font funded - quite a bit more than any set has sold before. A fundraising keycap set group buy would probably have to be run off the forum, with the prices increased substantially over typical novelty keycap sets, so that it would be essentially a thank-you to supporters for funding the font. By keeping these separate, people who want Classic Space can afford to buy Classic Space at a reasonable price from a typical group buy set, while people who want to help the community by funding a new font option for SA keycaps (people who want to make possible a Valentine typewriter themed set, or a better SA Skull Squadron, for example) can do so without paying a lot of extra money for Classic Space, which they might not be fans of in particular. I certainly would like to know how many people in the latter group, though.

If you have a different idea on how best to fund the font, I would love to hear it, too.

[honeynugget]

Wow this is a really nice change from Gorton Modified. I hope you guys can raise enough money to make this a thing!

[Steezus]

I'm in for Classic Space but don't have the funds to support both. I would honestly be fine with having to sell a few items and just pay the higher prices for Classic Space if it means I would get the set faster. It seems now that Classic Space will further be delayed until this set is complete. Best of luck though!

Unfortunately, funding the font by raising the price of Classic Space is probably impossible, as designers are only paid ~5% of sales, so we would need to sell more than $120,000.00 worth of Classic Space sets to get the font funded - quite a bit more than any set has sold before. A fundraising keycap set group buy would probably have to be run off the forum, with the prices increased substantially over typical novelty keycap sets, so that it would be essentially a thank-you to supporters for funding the font. By keeping these separate, people who want Classic Space can afford to buy Classic Space at a reasonable price from a typical group buy set, while people who want to help the community by funding a new font option for SA keycaps (people who want to make possible a Valentine typewriter themed set, or a better SA Skull Squadron, for example) can do so without paying a lot of extra money for Classic Space, which they might not be fans of in particular. I certainly would like to know how many people in the latter group, though.

If you have a different idea on how best to fund the font, I would love to hear it, too.

Thank you for replying, I was afraid it would be impossible to go straight forward with the Classic Space set. Definitely splitting it up is better idea but I just hope that this set can get enough interest with it being white on black. I personally like it when the modifiers are of different colors, I haven't seen any sets with a good teal color yet. I'm really looking forward to the Classic Space set so I'll try my best to scrape together the case to support both.

[CQ_Cumbers]

I'm in for Classic Space but don't have the funds to support both. I would honestly be fine with having to sell a few items and just pay the higher prices for Classic Space if it means I would get the set faster. It seems now that Classic Space will further be delayed until this set is complete. Best of luck though!

Unfortunately, funding the font by raising the price of Classic Space is probably impossible, as designers are only paid ~5% of sales, so we would need to sell more than $120,000.00 worth of Classic Space sets to get the font funded - quite a bit more than any set has sold before. A fundraising keycap set group buy would probably have to be run off the forum, with the prices increased substantially over typical novelty keycap sets, so that it would be essentially a thank-you to supporters for funding the font. By keeping these separate, people who want Classic Space can afford to buy Classic Space at a reasonable price from a typical group buy set, while people who want to help the community by funding a new font option for SA keycaps (people who want to make possible a Valentine typewriter themed set, or a better SA Skull Squadron, for example) can do so without paying a lot of extra money for Classic Space, which they might not be fans of in particular. I certainly would like to know how many people in the latter group, though.

If you have a different idea on how best to fund the font, I would love to hear it, too.

Thank you for replying, I was afraid it would be impossible to go straight forward with the Classic Space set. Definitely splitting it up is better idea but I just hope that this set can get enough interest with it being white on black. I personally like it when the modifiers are of different colors, I haven't seen any sets with a good teal color yet. I'm really looking forward to the Classic Space set so I'll try my best to scrape together the case to support both.

Sorry if it wasn't very clear, the black and white render is just so people can see what the font looks like without a color scheme. The actual fundraising keycaps we are planning to use, again more as a reward for supporters, are the set of 12 in different colors near the bottom of the post, inspired by HAL 9000's screens. This way, people don't need to pay for a whole set if they just want to support the font.

[Steezus]

More

I'm in for Classic Space but don't have the funds to support both. I would honestly be fine with having to sell a few items and just pay the higher prices for Classic Space if it means I would get the set faster. It seems now that Classic Space will further be delayed until this set is complete. Best of luck though!

Unfortunately, funding the font by raising the price of Classic Space is probably impossible, as designers are only paid ~5% of sales, so we would need to sell more than $120,000.00 worth of Classic Space sets to get the font funded - quite a bit more than any set has sold before. A fundraising keycap set group buy would probably have to be run off the forum, with the prices increased substantially over typical novelty keycap sets, so that it would be essentially a thank-you to supporters for funding the font. By keeping these separate, people who want Classic Space can afford to buy Classic Space at a reasonable price from a typical group buy set, while people who want to help the community by funding a new font option for SA keycaps (people who want to make possible a Valentine typewriter themed set, or a better SA Skull Squadron, for example) can do so without paying a lot of extra money for Classic Space, which they might not be fans of in particular. I certainly would like to know how many people in the latter group, though.

If you have a different idea on how best to fund the font, I would love to hear it, too.

Thank you for replying, I was afraid it would be impossible to go straight forward with the Classic Space set. Definitely splitting it up is better idea but I just hope that this set can get enough interest with it being white on black. I personally like it when the modifiers are of different colors, I haven't seen any sets with a good teal color yet. I'm really looking forward to the Classic Space set so I'll try my best to scrape together the case to support both.

Sorry if it wasn't very clear, the black and white render is just so people can see what the font looks like without a color scheme. The actual fundraising keycaps we are planning to use, again more as a reward for supporters, are the set of 12 in different colors near the bottom of the post, inspired by HAL 9000's screens. This way, people don't need to pay for a whole set if they just want to support the font.

Oh ok that makes more sense, the fault is likely mine for not 100% reading through the OP. Been super busy and been only having a few minutes here and there on the computer today, my apologies. I'll be glad to pitch in what I can to help fund these fonts, hoping to see these molds get a lot of use over the next year or so.

[stoic-lemon]

This is a great idea. I'd support the fundraising by buying the HAL set.

[UsualSuspectXXX]

This font look interesting enough to grab my attention. I'll be watching to see how this progresses. Good luck!

[Dernubenfrieken]

I almost wonder if SP could help out with this, as it would be another font choice for set designers and for them to use if they were in the business of developing sets. Assuming there are future sets being developed with this, the legend costs could be spread out among those. I could see sets like Eve or Deep Space using this in the future.

It really depends on the cost for this set as to whether I would buy in, and with the fickle nature of group buys and the production times for SA, it could be awhile before we even get to see the fruits of your labor and our money. Definitely going to be watching developments for this though.

Also this is just another random thought, but I thought this was a cool idea and maybe a color chip novelty set using this font could be a decent option too.

[alienman82]

removed.

[theanyday]

I like the font and I've been following the Classic Space IC for a while so stoked to see this all moving forward still.

[Zanduby]

Could we get 104 people to donate $50 or 208 at $25 etc. to help you get the legends made? I'm really looking forward to the Classic Space set and would love to help get the legends made for this set.

[Data]

That font is sick.  I'm totally on board for this.

Can we have the option to buy a letter?  I want to buy D! 

[CQ_Cumbers]

That font is sick.  I'm totally on board for this.

Can we have the option to buy a letter?  I want to buy D! 

Like the Cherry Replica legends fundraiser? I think that's a great idea - I'll discuss it with Oobly and livingspeedbump. We thought the group buy idea would be more popular because people might like getting a reward for supporting the project, but it looks like that frequently is not the case. We probably won't start actually gathering funds until January, though.

[Waateva]

That font is sick.  I'm totally on board for this.

Can we have the option to buy a letter?  I want to buy D! 

Like the Cherry Replica legends fundraiser? I think that's a great idea - I'll discuss it with Oobly and livingspeedbump. We thought the group buy idea would be more popular because people might like getting a reward for supporting the project, but it looks like that frequently is not the case. We probably won't start actually gathering funds until January, though.

Just in time for my raise to come into effect!

[Iworkatwendys]

I'm down for pitching in for the molds.  Whatever gets the classic space set moving forward.

[keyboardia1]

I almost wonder if SP could help out with this, as it would be another font choice for set designers and for them to use if they were in the business of developing sets. Assuming there are future sets being developed with this, the legend costs could be spread out among those. I could see sets like Eve or Deep Space using this in the future.

Fair question. Shouldn't they at least pay some of the costs?

[CQ_Cumbers]

I almost wonder if SP could help out with this, as it would be another font choice for set designers and for them to use if they were in the business of developing sets. Assuming there are future sets being developed with this, the legend costs could be spread out among those. I could see sets like Eve or Deep Space using this in the future.

Fair question. Shouldn't they at least pay some of the costs?

Well, perhaps they should, but SP doesn't really have a history of making molds for free (Even the alternative fonts they say they have available, like Isotherm, you would have to pay for to cut in SA profile), especially as the previous Cherry Replica Legends project paid for DSA legends themselves. I'm not sure it's worth the time and effort to try to make SP do things differently. As for spreading the costs over multiple sets, I am currently talking with some other set designers about it, but no promises yet. Oobly is, unfortunately, still very busy with real life, so it may be a while (I don't know exactly how long) before we can run the fundraising sets.

[KaminKevCrew]

I would possibly be interested! Definitely a very cool project!

[Hyde]

I love the font !!!  Definitely interested.

Though funny enough I actually prefer the black / white sample color way a lot better.  If someone can run that with all row 3 later that would be awesome. 

[spectre]

Show Image

A preliminary render of the proposed 2016: A Space Extended Adventure fundraising keycap set.

You stole my idea! I was going to call it Odyssey.
Depending on the price, I want it

[TheMalacoda]

I'm in, of course. Just for curiosity's sake (because I'm going to buy it anyway) about how much do you think the fundraising keycap set will go for? Ballpark?

[mtl]

Awesome legends. I would be happy to support the new font. Also, please add 1.5u mods!

[CQ_Cumbers]

I'm in, of course. Just for curiosity's sake (because I'm going to buy it anyway) about how much do you think the fundraising keycap set will go for? Ballpark?

Because we need to make enough money to fund the font, the fundraising keycap set will need to be more expensive, maybe around $50.  The final price could be different depending on the cost of making it, but based on current estimates, at that price about 200 purchases would be enough for us to reach the $6000 necessary to cut all the legends, get test sets made, correct errors, etc. The fundraising keycaps are essentially a thank-you for supporting the font, which will be free for any future SA sets to use.

[KaminKevCrew]

I'm in, of course. Just for curiosity's sake (because I'm going to buy it anyway) about how much do you think the fundraising keycap set will go for? Ballpark?

Because we need to make enough money to fund the font, the fundraising keycap set will need to be more expensive, maybe around $50.  The final price could be different depending on the cost of making it, but based on current estimates, at that price about 200 purchases would be enough for us to reach the $6000 necessary to cut all the legends, get test sets made, correct errors, etc. The fundraising keycaps are essentially a thank-you for supporting the font, which will be free for any future SA sets to use.

I'd do it, in order to make classic space a possibility!

[colomb]

I'm in.

[Zanduby]

I'm in, of course. Just for curiosity's sake (because I'm going to buy it anyway) about how much do you think the fundraising keycap set will go for? Ballpark?

Because we need to make enough money to fund the font, the fundraising keycap set will need to be more expensive, maybe around $50.  The final price could be different depending on the cost of making it, but based on current estimates, at that price about 200 purchases would be enough for us to reach the $6000 necessary to cut all the legends, get test sets made, correct errors, etc. The fundraising keycaps are essentially a thank-you for supporting the font, which will be free for any future SA sets to use.

I am in.

[regack]

I'll support this.

[00zeRO]

When...is this Fundraising GB happening?

[Oobly]

Hi, been out of the loop for a while for personal reasons, but my current estimate of the 12 key fundraising set is $30 to $35. It does depend if we can get enough sets sold, but we're hoping to get it to Massdrop and perhaps that coupled with some decent promotion (and a few new renders) could bring in a decent amount of what we need for cutting legends. If it looks like it won't get enough exposure to sell in decent numbers, then the cost could well be closer to $50 as CQ_Cumbers has said, though. We'll be sending the legend files to Melissa soon for checking and get some quotes for different MOQ tiers.

[simonyunhe]

Hi, been out of the loop for a while for personal reasons, but my current estimate of the 12 key fundraising set is $30 to $35. It does depend if we can get enough sets sold, but we're hoping to get it to Massdrop and perhaps that coupled with some decent promotion (and a few new renders) could bring in a decent amount of what we need for cutting legends. If it looks like it won't get enough exposure to sell in decent numbers, then the cost could well be closer to $50 as CQ_Cumbers has said, though. We'll be sending the legend files to Melissa soon for checking and get some quotes for different MOQ tiers.

Good to know, thx for the update.

[My_Thoughts]

to reach the $6000 necessary to cut all the legends, get test sets made, correct errors, etc

I'm really looking forward to the Classic Space keycaps, but as an ISO user can I ask what ISO options are included in the 6k?  I'm not sure how the legends will work.  I assume if "backspace" is made, then it can be used by other designers to replace Caps Lock (such as with Pulse).   I guess Plank/White Fox might need some special legends as well.

[CQ_Cumbers]

to reach the $6000 necessary to cut all the legends, get test sets made, correct errors, etc

I'm really looking forward to the Classic Space keycaps, but as an ISO user can I ask what ISO options are included in the 6k?  I'm not sure how the legends will work.  I assume if "backspace" is made, then it can be used by other designers to replace Caps Lock (such as with Pulse).   I guess Plank/White Fox might need some special legends as well.

As far as I know, current plans are to include basic legends for UK ISO compatibility, but probably not for Planck or White Fox unless we raise significantly more than $6000 and there is a lot of support for legends in a specific nonstandard layout.

[Dernubenfrieken]

5

to reach the $6000 necessary to cut all the legends, get test sets made, correct errors, etc

I'm really looking forward to the Classic Space keycaps, but as an ISO user can I ask what ISO options are included in the 6k?  I'm not sure how the legends will work.  I assume if "backspace" is made, then it can be used by other designers to replace Caps Lock (such as with Pulse).   I guess Plank/White Fox might need some special legends as well.

As far as I know, current plans are to include basic legends for UK ISO compatibility, but probably not for Planck or White Fox unless we raise significantly more than $6000 and there is a lot of support for legends in a specific nonstandard layout.

Arent fonts row agnostic?

[Niomosy]

5

to reach the $6000 necessary to cut all the legends, get test sets made, correct errors, etc

I'm really looking forward to the Classic Space keycaps, but as an ISO user can I ask what ISO options are included in the 6k?  I'm not sure how the legends will work.  I assume if "backspace" is made, then it can be used by other designers to replace Caps Lock (such as with Pulse).   I guess Plank/White Fox might need some special legends as well.

As far as I know, current plans are to include basic legends for UK ISO compatibility, but probably not for Planck or White Fox unless we raise significantly more than $6000 and there is a lot of support for legends in a specific nonstandard layout.

Arent fonts row agnostic?

I wouldn't think so, at least for doubleshot.  The letters would need to follow the contour of the cap itself.

Hopefully someone with more info than me can chime in.

[nemoy]

These are awesome. I love the font!

[CQ_Cumbers]

5

to reach the $6000 necessary to cut all the legends, get test sets made, correct errors, etc

I'm really looking forward to the Classic Space keycaps, but as an ISO user can I ask what ISO options are included in the 6k?  I'm not sure how the legends will work.  I assume if "backspace" is made, then it can be used by other designers to replace Caps Lock (such as with Pulse).   I guess Plank/White Fox might need some special legends as well.

As far as I know, current plans are to include basic legends for UK ISO compatibility, but probably not for Planck or White Fox unless we raise significantly more than $6000 and there is a lot of support for legends in a specific nonstandard layout.

Arent fonts row agnostic?

I wouldn't think so, at least for doubleshot.  The letters would need to follow the contour of the cap itself.

Hopefully someone with more info than me can chime in.

AFAIK, SA legends can be reused for any SA row profile key of the same size, but not for keys of different sizes, or any profiles outside the SA family. This means sculpted, all R3, Colemak, Dvorak, QWERTZ, AZERTY, etc. layouts are all possible at no additional cost, but Planck, Ergodox, and other layouts with nonstandard key sizes would require additional legends to be cut.

[Dernubenfrieken]

5

to reach the $6000 necessary to cut all the legends, get test sets made, correct errors, etc

I'm really looking forward to the Classic Space keycaps, but as an ISO user can I ask what ISO options are included in the 6k?  I'm not sure how the legends will work.  I assume if "backspace" is made, then it can be used by other designers to replace Caps Lock (such as with Pulse).   I guess Plank/White Fox might need some special legends as well.

As far as I know, current plans are to include basic legends for UK ISO compatibility, but probably not for Planck or White Fox unless we raise significantly more than $6000 and there is a lot of support for legends in a specific nonstandard layout.

Arent fonts row agnostic?

I wouldn't think so, at least for doubleshot.  The letters would need to follow the contour of the cap itself.

Hopefully someone with more info than me can chime in.

AFAIK, SA legends can be reused for any SA row profile key of the same size, but not for keys of different sizes, or any profiles outside the SA family. This means sculpted, all R3, Colemak, Dvorak, QWERTZ, AZERTY, etc. layouts are all possible at no additional cost, but Planck, Ergodox, and other layouts with nonstandard key sizes would require additional legends to be cut.

Thats what I thought, thanks. White fox support shouldn't be too bad depending on the layout, and buying one or two legends for a specialty kit shouldn't hurt future GB's too badly.

[MOZ]

5

to reach the $6000 necessary to cut all the legends, get test sets made, correct errors, etc

I'm really looking forward to the Classic Space keycaps, but as an ISO user can I ask what ISO options are included in the 6k?  I'm not sure how the legends will work.  I assume if "backspace" is made, then it can be used by other designers to replace Caps Lock (such as with Pulse).   I guess Plank/White Fox might need some special legends as well.

As far as I know, current plans are to include basic legends for UK ISO compatibility, but probably not for Planck or White Fox unless we raise significantly more than $6000 and there is a lot of support for legends in a specific nonstandard layout.

Arent fonts row agnostic?

I wouldn't think so, at least for doubleshot.  The letters would need to follow the contour of the cap itself.

Hopefully someone with more info than me can chime in.

AFAIK, SA legends can be reused for any SA row profile key of the same size, but not for keys of different sizes, or any profiles outside the SA family. This means sculpted, all R3, Colemak, Dvorak, QWERTZ, AZERTY, etc. layouts are all possible at no additional cost, but Planck, Ergodox, and other layouts with nonstandard key sizes would require additional legends to be cut.

Unfortunately, I think you might be in the wrong here, every legend is specific to size AND profile. This is why, for the longest time SP didn't have Row 4 Shift keys. The way double shot works (At least at SP), it requires the legends to take the profile as well as the size of a keycap.

[Dernubenfrieken]

5

to reach the $6000 necessary to cut all the legends, get test sets made, correct errors, etc

I'm really looking forward to the Classic Space keycaps, but as an ISO user can I ask what ISO options are included in the 6k?  I'm not sure how the legends will work.  I assume if "backspace" is made, then it can be used by other designers to replace Caps Lock (such as with Pulse).   I guess Plank/White Fox might need some special legends as well.

As far as I know, current plans are to include basic legends for UK ISO compatibility, but probably not for Planck or White Fox unless we raise significantly more than $6000 and there is a lot of support for legends in a specific nonstandard layout.

Arent fonts row agnostic?

I wouldn't think so, at least for doubleshot.  The letters would need to follow the contour of the cap itself.

Hopefully someone with more info than me can chime in.

AFAIK, SA legends can be reused for any SA row profile key of the same size, but not for keys of different sizes, or any profiles outside the SA family. This means sculpted, all R3, Colemak, Dvorak, QWERTZ, AZERTY, etc. layouts are all possible at no additional cost, but Planck, Ergodox, and other layouts with nonstandard key sizes would require additional legends to be cut.

Unfortunately, I think you might be in the wrong here, every legend is specific to size AND profile. This is why, for the longest time SP didn't have Row 4 Shift keys. The way double shot works (At least at SP), it requires the legends to take the profile as well as the size of a keycap.

That was because they didn't have a row 4 2.75 unit mold. If it was a legend problem... there never would have been a problem. It would have just been made in any group buy.

[MOZ]

I'd still wager that the legends are row specific. Melissa from SP should be able to confirm.

[00zeRO]

I'd still wager that the legends are row specific. Melissa from SP should be able to confirm.

From my own experience, they are.

[CQ_Cumbers]

From Melissa on September 24, 2015:

We can use the same legends across rows assuming they are the same size keycap - we can't use a 1 space legend for a 1.25 space key though. Legends are also specific to the keycap family - i.e. SA legends cannot be used with DSA keys - the curvature of the keycap is different.

[MOZ]

From Melissa on September 24, 2015:

We can use the same legends across rows assuming they are the same size keycap - we can't use a 1 space legend for a 1.25 space key though. Legends are also specific to the keycap family - i.e. SA legends cannot be used with DSA keys - the curvature of the keycap is different.

That's nice to know.

[E.E.L. Ambiense]

Just wanted to jump in and say this is a gorgeously-designed typeface, and it really pops!  Personally I'd love a black and white contrasted set with this typeface used.  Sexy!

[MOZ]

I can actually see the font being quite popular for modern and retro-modern themes in the future.

[E.E.L. Ambiense]

Absolutely.  What I love about it is it utilizes the available strike-area of the key without looking overbearing, lop-sided, or 'gaudy'. 

[CMDR_Rockman]

Hi all! (first geekhack post) I'm super excited for this font! I couldn't wait to see it on some keys so I printed up some labels for my relegendables.



Here is the reddit post with the keyboard it's on: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/460ap9/atreus_blues/

[CQ_Cumbers]

Very cool, and a nice physical mockup of the legends. The actual ones do look a bit different to accomodate SP's doubleshot limitations (in general, they are smaller and have more rounded corners), but Eurostile on keycaps is always great to see! Just a tip, the SVG you posted is using an embedded font, so it won't look like Eurostile unless you explicitly select it in your font menu. If you want it to look the same to everyone, you should consider changing the letters into paths.

I believe Oobly is working on getting the fundraising set approved and the logistics figured out, so that we should be able to start in a week or two.

[My_Thoughts]

I believe Oobly is working on getting the fundraising set approved and the logistics figured out, so that we should be able to start in a week or two.

Excellent news   I am really excited about this, but slow and steady and getting it right is the way to go

[qazeqaz]

I have to say that I really like the way this one looks. I am interested.

[evangs]

I'm so pumped for this!

[onmybikedrunk]

This is awesome!  As an industrial designer, I have to say that the Olivetti Valentine is a pinnacle for product design for the era.  It's in all the Industrial Design books as well as on display at the MoMa in NYC and the Pompidou in Paris.  I am SOOO down for this set.  Very clever.

[Zanduby]

Hey CQ, any updates on this? Is this a dead IC now? I was really looking forward the keyset.

[Jedi]

Signature Plastics is so backed up right now and there is already a buy in progress not to mention a backlog in the pipe.  This one is also a bit more involved since in order to get the font legend made, we will possibly see a separate release to help fund the new legend.  But even with the separate release, there comes the issue of when that separate release even could be made.

TLDR; patience and this too will come, but its going to be a while (most likely)

[-musubi]

I like that that the fonts are pretty unique compared to all the other SA sets coming out, but I would definitely prefer having different colored alphas/modifiers

[CQ_Cumbers]

I like that that the fonts are pretty unique compared to all the other SA sets coming out, but I would definitely prefer having different colored alphas/modifiers

To be clear, the render in all black at the top of the first post is solely for previewing the font. This is not an interest check for an individual set, but an interest check for a new doubleshot font that may be used by other SA sets, the first of which will be Classic Space. The last picture on the first post is what the fundraising set we were planning to sell in order to fund the rest of the legends.

While this project is not dead, progress has been relatively slow recently, so it may still be a while before fundraising starts. What I would like to know is: what are your thoughts on the HAL themed fundraiser keycaps, as shown on the last picture on the first post? We were planning on using them as a reward for those who donated, but I don't know how many are interested in the HAL keys, and if they don't affect how many people donate it may be faster to just run a "sponsor-a-key" program, like Cherry Replica legends.

[00zeRO]

I like that that the fonts are pretty unique compared to all the other SA sets coming out, but I would definitely prefer having different colored alphas/modifiers

To be clear, the render in all black at the top of the first post is solely for previewing the font. This is not an interest check for an individual set, but an interest check for a new doubleshot font that may be used by other SA sets, the first of which will be Classic Space. The last picture on the first post is what the fundraising set we were planning to sell in order to fund the rest of the legends.

While this project is not dead, progress has been relatively slow recently, so it may still be a while before fundraising starts. What I would like to know is: what are your thoughts on the HAL themed fundraiser keycaps, as shown on the last picture on the first post? We were planning on using them as a reward for those who donated, but I don't know how many are interested in the HAL keys, and since Signature Plastics is pretty busy, if they don't affect how many people donate it may be faster to just run a "sponsor-a-key" program, like Cherry Replica legends.

'Um...I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave.'

Interested in a HAL in whatever channel you choose

[Jedi]

Has anyone approached Yanbo at Massdrop on the funding aspect?  Seems that with all the amazing SA and DSA sets that over reach MOQ, that this would be a no brainer for them to look into a bit more.  If for no other reason but to provide an even greater spread of legend designs for future drops (err I mean group buys).

[HouseofSuffering]

I would be down to help fund this, whenever it gets going. I really want that Lego Space set to happen.

[Dernubenfrieken]

Has anyone approached Yanbo at Massdrop on the funding aspect?  Seems that with all the amazing SA and DSA sets that over reach MOQ, that this would be a no brainer for them to look into a bit more.  If for no other reason but to provide an even greater spread of legend designs for future drops (err I mean group buys).

It also might be possible for them to spread out the cost over a few keyset drops, to defer the costs for their first set.

[CQ_Cumbers]

Has anyone approached Yanbo at Massdrop on the funding aspect?  Seems that with all the amazing SA and DSA sets that over reach MOQ, that this would be a no brainer for them to look into a bit more.  If for no other reason but to provide an even greater spread of legend designs for future drops (err I mean group buys).

The ideal was to run the HAL set on massdrop, but for that we'd have to both sell a lot of sets and arrange with Massdrop and/or SP to get a larger percentage of profits used to cut the font, as typical designer returns don't reach $6000 even for very successful sets. I'll ask about it.

[Jedi]

The ideal was to run the HAL set on massdrop, but for that we'd have to both sell a lot of sets and arrange with Massdrop and/or SP to get a larger percentage of profits used to cut the font, as typical designer returns don't reach $6000 even for very successful sets. I'll ask about it.

I agree with your strategy.  I was looking at it more from a "this is our idea, this is why we want to do this, this is what we need to help make it happen".  (When I say "we" and "our" I mean yours and others in the community who are working with you on this IC).  I think they (MassDrop) would take a very serious perspective on this in terms of working with making the project happen but without the same fund raiser approach you might be looking at without their (corporate marketing strategy) support.  I think this whole font IC is a fresh alternative to the same old same old font set that made you think about this from the beginning.  I also believe it, or an idea like it, would be useful for more projects to come (from both you and other community members who can utilize it).

[regack]

I like that that the fonts are pretty unique compared to all the other SA sets coming out, but I would definitely prefer having different colored alphas/modifiers

To be clear, the render in all black at the top of the first post is solely for previewing the font. This is not an interest check for an individual set, but an interest check for a new doubleshot font that may be used by other SA sets, the first of which will be Classic Space. The last picture on the first post is what the fundraising set we were planning to sell in order to fund the rest of the legends.

While this project is not dead, progress has been relatively slow recently, so it may still be a while before fundraising starts. What I would like to know is: what are your thoughts on the HAL themed fundraiser keycaps, as shown on the last picture on the first post? We were planning on using them as a reward for those who donated, but I don't know how many are interested in the HAL keys, and since Signature Plastics is pretty busy, if they don't affect how many people donate it may be faster to just run a "sponsor-a-key" program, like Cherry Replica legends.

'Um...I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave.'

Interested in a HAL in whatever channel you choose

I'm with 00zeRO, I'm in to support the font and the HAL keycaps, whichever way it goes. 

[heedpantsnow]

Love the font!

[Lipton]

Love it! I'm in

[Data]

Still interested in "buying" a key for this.  I know it would only be symbolic but it still seems totally worth it.    If there are ~120 of us throughout all the keyboard communities willing to throw down like that you could fund the entire key set that way.  No need for fundraisers, just knock it out "for the greater good".  We would need some assurances that you wouldn't disappear with the money.   

[evangs]

Still interested in "buying" a key for this.  I know it would only be symbolic but it still seems totally worth it.    If there are ~120 of us throughout all the keyboard communities willing to throw down like that you could fund the entire key set that way.  No need for fundraisers, just knock it out "for the greater good".  We would need some assurances that you wouldn't disappear with the money.   

I'd be in for this. Let's get this funded and underway

[Jedi]

Still interested in "buying" a key for this.  I know it would only be symbolic but it still seems totally worth it.    If there are ~120 of us throughout all the keyboard communities willing to throw down like that you could fund the entire key set that way.  No need for fundraisers, just knock it out "for the greater good".  We would need some assurances that you wouldn't disappear with the money.   

That's why I think we need a hard talk with MD.  Come on man, I still think they would come through for the community's sake.  They know we had a little "situation" in here, they also know how passionate we are on doing this.  They are pretty active over there across the pond, lets ask them to stir up the pot over there for keyboard science.  Has anyone asked Zambumon if he'd be interested in the font set?  Seems if we can get the two sets going with this font, that the talks would sweeten the deal.  We know that EngiCoder and ZSlane are up for next in queue and both at last I read are planning on going through Massdrop.  Maybe this is better as a PM, I just really want to see us move to GB, so I'll back down.

[hadees]

The HAL set looks dope, i'm in.

[Dernubenfrieken]

Still interested in "buying" a key for this.  I know it would only be symbolic but it still seems totally worth it.    If there are ~120 of us throughout all the keyboard communities willing to throw down like that you could fund the entire key set that way.  No need for fundraisers, just knock it out "for the greater good".  We would need some assurances that you wouldn't disappear with the money.   

That's why I think we need a hard talk with MD.  Come on man, I still think they would come through for the community's sake.  They know we had a little "situation" in here, they also know how passionate we are on doing this.  They are pretty active over there across the pond, lets ask them to stir up the pot over there for keyboard science.  Has anyone asked Zambumon if he'd be interested in the font set?  Seems if we can get the two sets going with this font, that the talks would sweeten the deal.  We know that EngiCoder and ZSlane are up for next in queue and both at last I read are planning on going through Massdrop.  Maybe this is better as a PM, I just really want to see us move to GB, so I'll back down.

I think the biggest issue is that with the SA backlog, and the popularity of reruns, this could take a LONG time to pay off over multiple sets. And we would have to negotiate use of the font itself for community GB's, which would make it even tougher to convince them.

[evangs]

I'm willing to donate to the new font being cut, with nothing in return.  I just want to see it happen and get some sets produced with the new font.  I'm sure others are willing to donate as well.

[chuckdee]

I'm willing to donate to the new font being cut, with nothing in return.  I just want to see it happen and get some sets produced with the new font.  I'm sure others are willing to donate as well.

Though getting something in return is nice, getting the initiative done is also nice.  In other words, I echo what's quoted above.

[japanitrat]

I'm willing to donate to the new font being cut, with nothing in return.  I just want to see it happen and get some sets produced with the new font.  I'm sure others are willing to donate as well.

Seconding that. I am willing to pay more/donate just for getting the legend molds done. Without something in return ... other than credit

[Scivive]

Love the font, I'm interested

[nateth]

I'll donate a letter.

[tofgerl]

Actually, that's a good idea. Donations for individual characters. A - brought to you by User1.

[evangs]

I've got E


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[My_Thoughts]

I'm not sure how the fonts will work.  For example if we get the @ symbol made I assume it can be scaled and then used in the various positions ISO sets use it?   Assuming this is the case I would also be up for funding a key

[Data]

I'm not sure how the fonts will work.  For example if we get the @ symbol made I assume it can be scaled and then used in the various positions ISO sets use it?   Assuming this is the case I would also be up for funding a key

It's not really done on a glyph-by-glyph basis.  It's done by keys.  The molds are steel or brass (most likely 440C stainless) so they will machine a mold for each key.  Key sizes are "fixed" for each profile, and they will generally cut a mold for each row profile 1-4 where appropriate.  Every legend is a single piece of molded plastic.  So for US ANSI "3#" key, they'll cut both glyphs into the legend mold.  Practically speaking, that means they are not scalable.  And for each variation of ISO a new mold is required to manufacture that key in the specified row profile.  So your UK ISO "3£" key, you can't just borrow the 3 from US ANSI "3#" and add the British Pound glyph.  You need a new mold.  So you might begin to understand why this venture is so complicated and expensive.

Edit: I should clarify - SP might have a typesetting rig they can use for custom legends within their existing font family.  For example, the "MASTER ARM" key I designed for Danger Zone might not have required a custom mold if they could make it using their Gorton Modified typeset -- like Gutenberg's "movable type", where they just arrange individual letters to create the legend mold.  But that's with an existing font face and doesn't really apply to the Space Extended project.   

I also have no idea if such a rig exists for injection molding. 

[My_Thoughts]

I'm not sure how the fonts will work.  For example if we get the @ symbol made I assume it can be scaled and then used in the various positions ISO sets use it?   Assuming this is the case I would also be up for funding a key

It's not really done on a glyph-by-glyph basis.  It's done by keys.  The molds are steel or brass (most likely 440C stainless) so they will machine a mold for each key.  Key sizes are "fixed" for each profile, and they will generally cut a mold for each row profile 1-4 where appropriate.  Every legend is a single piece of molded plastic.  So for US ANSI "3#" key, they'll cut both glyphs into the legend mold.  Practically speaking, that means they are not scalable.  And for each variation of ISO a new mold is required to manufacture that key in the specified row profile.  So your UK ISO "3£" key, you can't just borrow the 3 from US ANSI "3#" and add the British Pound glyph.  You need a new mold.  So you might begin to understand why this venture is so complicated and expensive.

Edit: I should clarify - SP might have a typesetting rig they can use for custom legends within their existing font family.  For example, the "MASTER ARM" key I designed for Danger Zone might not have required a custom mold if they could make it using their Gorton Modified typeset -- like Gutenberg's "movable type", where they just arrange individual letters to create the legend mold.  But that's with an existing font face and doesn't really apply to the Space Extended project.   

I also have no idea if such a rig exists for injection molding. 

Thanks for the detailed reply   It seems we will need extra keys for all the ISO set making everything bigger and harder to do.  I'm still happy to pay for a key to be made, but going down that route we will 100 people to get involved.

[THX1138b]

I guess this fell through? Surely Eurostile or Microgramma fonts are the whole point of SA spherical keycaps??

[Keynami]

I am a huge fan of the white-on-black render. I would go for that one if it were available