Author Topic: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.  (Read 769489 times)

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Offline Exanimis

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 09 July 2014, 04:22:38 »
I think that Cooler Master Storm Alcor on the first post has a incorrect image. If I checked correctly Alcor is without the rubber sides, this picture is of the laser version Mizar.

I recently ordered Alcor as it seems its one of the best price from the list and I also liked the shape. We will see how flawless sensor it is ;)
My other choice would be Zowie FK but the price is nearly twice of Alcor in my region :/
« Last Edit: Wed, 09 July 2014, 04:24:23 by Exanimis »

Offline McWilloughby

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 09 July 2014, 11:47:18 »
I just picked up a Roccat Kone Pure Military (the green one) today so I'll post some thoughts here after I've used it for a few days.

Offline dmbr

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #52 on: Thu, 10 July 2014, 21:11:26 »
The g502 tracking error is now acknowledged by Logitech. The latest firmware update was supposed to fix it, but didn't.

Offline stakiman

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #53 on: Sun, 13 July 2014, 01:30:57 »
I will chip in my 2 cents I guess.

I am a semi-pro Starcraft II player and if you are unfamiliar with the game - it is a quick action paced RTS, where a lot of mouse accuracy and precision is needed. Not to mention that you maybe move your mouse more than any other game, when you play an RTS. Let's say that some branded mice, from "big/famous/rich" companies cannot keep up with 12 hours of boxing every day for more than an year. ^^

The Zowie MiCO, however, is maybe the best mouse for the job. It has the same "very clicky and distinguishable" switches from the other Zowie mouses, but is extremely light and perhaps a little bit smaller than normal mice. I have no idea what sensor it uses, but I can tell you - it does not fail easily. Plus no other mouse (except the Logitech G9X) comes close to it for the RTS genre.
I should add that it is with a glossy surface, meaning it is not ok to use it while you eat anything. It lacks any software/drivers and has only 3 buttons. An extremely simple product. Three states of DPI, which are changed when you hold down the two main buttons and scroll the wheel around. The simplicity and the lack of other buttons is also a huge plus for me.

Here is an album of a bunch of Koreans (mostly the top pros) using mainly Logitech G9X, Zowie MiCO, and a few other exceptions. Maybe you have to scroll into the album a bit to find the mico users, but i'm sure most of you will enjoy it anyway. ^^
http://imgur.com/a/ixDhR

Seriosuly, consider this mouse as one of the best extremely light/affordable/very-precise/heavy-duty mouses.
Thank you!
« Last Edit: Sun, 13 July 2014, 01:43:26 by stakiman »
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Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #54 on: Sun, 13 July 2014, 13:59:15 »
...

This thread is about mouse sensors in particular, not overall mouse quality. In terms of sensor performance, the MiCo is not in the same league as the mice listed on the first page.

If you want a small, lightweight mouse with a better sensor, look at either a Team Scorpion Zealot Jr. or a Commatech fkmini v3. Either of those will get you an Avago A3090 sensor.
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Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #55 on: Sun, 13 July 2014, 16:17:38 »
I will chip in my 2 cents I guess.

I am a semi-pro Starcraft II player and if you are unfamiliar with the game - it is a quick action paced RTS, where a lot of mouse accuracy and precision is needed. Not to mention that you maybe move your mouse more than any other game, when you play an RTS. Let's say that some branded mice, from "big/famous/rich" companies cannot keep up with 12 hours of boxing every day for more than an year. ^^

The Zowie MiCO, however, is maybe the best mouse for the job. It has the same "very clicky and distinguishable" switches from the other Zowie mouses, but is extremely light and perhaps a little bit smaller than normal mice. I have no idea what sensor it uses, but I can tell you - it does not fail easily. Plus no other mouse (except the Logitech G9X) comes close to it for the RTS genre.
I should add that it is with a glossy surface, meaning it is not ok to use it while you eat anything. It lacks any software/drivers and has only 3 buttons. An extremely simple product. Three states of DPI, which are changed when you hold down the two main buttons and scroll the wheel around. The simplicity and the lack of other buttons is also a huge plus for me.

Here is an album of a bunch of Koreans (mostly the top pros) using mainly Logitech G9X, Zowie MiCO, and a few other exceptions. Maybe you have to scroll into the album a bit to find the mico users, but i'm sure most of you will enjoy it anyway. ^^
http://imgur.com/a/ixDhR

Seriosuly, consider this mouse as one of the best extremely light/affordable/very-precise/heavy-duty mouses.
Thank you!

Thanks for your contribution. While it is certainly encouraging to see a mouse being used successfully at the highest level of competition, this is not sufficient ( or necessary) for the mouse to be included in this list. I try to keep this thread very simple by focusing on the sensors used and the way they behave. Based on this, and only this, do I decide to add mice to the list. I should note that I say "I" but in reality this decision reflects the consensus in a number of communities (FPS oriented).

This does not mean that any mouse that is not on the list can not be and will never be used to compete at a high level. We see this happen all the time (Kinzu for example, in addition the the mice you mentioned), especially in the non-FPS scenes.

Update to the guide will be coming soon. Thanks for the suggestions and extra information in some of the recent posts. Much of it will be taken into account when the guide is updated.
« Last Edit: Sun, 13 July 2014, 16:23:53 by Grim Fandango »
Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0

Offline stakiman

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #56 on: Sun, 13 July 2014, 16:47:23 »
Ok, I absolutely understand. ^^
I need to get more familiarized with the different models of mouse sensors.

Thank you for this thread, it is really informative!
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Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 14 July 2014, 17:07:41 »
I think that Cooler Master Storm Alcor on the first post has a incorrect image. If I checked correctly Alcor is without the rubber sides, this picture is of the laser version Mizar.

I recently ordered Alcor as it seems its one of the best price from the list and I also liked the shape. We will see how flawless sensor it is ;)
My other choice would be Zowie FK but the price is nearly twice of Alcor in my region :/

Thanks, I had not noticed the difference between the two. It has been corrected.

Also added the FK1
Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0

Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #58 on: Tue, 15 July 2014, 07:57:04 »
The g502 tracking error is now acknowledged by Logitech. The latest firmware update was supposed to fix it, but didn't.

I have heard this complaint a couple of times now. Also, it seems that there are a number of threads such as the one in the official logitech forum, where a large number of people experience the same issue. I will add this in the guide, as I think it is common enough that it should be included. Thanks for pointing it out.
« Last Edit: Tue, 15 July 2014, 12:04:46 by Grim Fandango »
Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0

Offline waffletastic

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #59 on: Tue, 15 July 2014, 15:32:23 »
MouseTest.exe that's listed under software resources is coming up with several virus detections.

https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/d797bd6315e418434da3cec49e4e00ccadd45aea6ae33d359597b81c74712ebf/analysis/1405455997/

Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #60 on: Thu, 17 July 2014, 07:42:35 »
MouseTest.exe that's listed under software resources is coming up with several virus detections.

https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/d797bd6315e418434da3cec49e4e00ccadd45aea6ae33d359597b81c74712ebf/analysis/1405455997/

Thanks for looking out. I have seen this being discussed a couple of times before. But every time people concluded there was no virus. It could be a false positive as you sometimes see with other legitimate selfextracting files. I am no expert though, and will put a caution in the guide.

In the meantime, here is an alternative:
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2087517
Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0

Offline tuffrabit

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #61 on: Fri, 18 July 2014, 09:06:34 »
Just bought a Corsair M45.  Tracking is fantastic, though I'm coming from a G700... so it's gonna be different.  The scroll wheel and grippy finish both seem durable, we'l see how that does over time.

Offline woll3

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #62 on: Fri, 18 July 2014, 13:35:28 »
about the R.A.T. 3´s performance:

Malfunction Speed around 2.5m/s at 1800/900/450, LOD around 3 cd´s, recalculated 450 and 900 steps are very inconsistent and are suffering from Pixelwalk issues, general tracking at 1800 is fine, jitters alot on 3500cpi.

Pixelwalk is also the reason why some people report a lag on the 3090 zowies, interpolation and using the sensor outside of the recommended specs are the cause in this case, depends on many factors to notice it.


Skylit, one of the more knowledgeable mouse experts at OCN maintains that all cmos based sensors have an inherent form of acceleration. Though I will not pretend to know exactly how that works, as I usually go by testing results


Thats because it actually isnt acceleration, a more correct term for example would be Trackinglinearity, CPI are never 100% stable with any system, the only question is, if it is perceivable/has an impact or not. One System can have a Variance of 5%, another 0.5%, and so on.

« Last Edit: Fri, 18 July 2014, 13:46:01 by woll3 »

Offline JackCY

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #63 on: Sat, 19 July 2014, 18:43:42 »
1) What is the cheapest mouse with 800dpi and no acceleration, angle snapping or other smoothing nonsense? (So I can kill it and implant the guts into an old IME3.0)

2) What is the biggest mouse with 800dpi and no acceleration, angle snapping or other smoothing nonsense? (IME3.0 size or bigger, EC1 is small)

500Hz USB is just fine. No need for crazy high tracking speed, I probably can't swipe fast enough to get past IME3.0 at 500Hz.
« Last Edit: Sun, 20 July 2014, 02:50:34 by JackCY »
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Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #64 on: Wed, 23 July 2014, 09:43:14 »
Hey guys, just as a heads-up, Amazon has the Corsair M45 in today's deals of the day for $33.99. I ordered one, so I'll soon have my very first "superior" mouse. I'm really excited!

Offline dmbr

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #65 on: Wed, 23 July 2014, 18:48:59 »
Trying out the Roccat Kone Pure Military Edition. So far no cons, but not sure about the sensor, as I've used it so little...

Offline dmbr

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #66 on: Thu, 24 July 2014, 08:01:50 »
Seems there's some smoothing...I can't put my finger on it, but I'm just not hitting shots with it like I do the g502.

Great mouse, though. Scroll wheel is perfect, buttons nice and clicky and require minimal pressure to activate, nice limber cord, great ergonomics, nice and light.

Offline Emmiya

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #67 on: Fri, 25 July 2014, 03:59:27 »
Don't worry guys. I think I may finally have my "perfect" mouse!

It's 99% what I wanted :D
Old Razer Abyssus dimensions.
The shape/rubberised thumb rest of the Razer Taipan.
Only thing letting it down, is the lack of thumb & dpi buttons, but I'll just have to get used to not using them.

Offline whentheclouds

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #68 on: Fri, 25 July 2014, 05:46:10 »
Great mouse, though. Scroll wheel is perfect, buttons nice and clicky and require minimal pressure to activate, nice limber cord, great ergonomics, nice and light.
quite the glowing review. i'm struggling to choose between this one and the Avior 7000. the FK1 seems good too but seeing as i'm used to the original Deathadder's Omron switch, the Huano wouldn't be a good match for me

Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #69 on: Fri, 25 July 2014, 07:29:04 »
about the R.A.T. 3´s performance:

Malfunction Speed around 2.5m/s at 1800/900/450, LOD around 3 cd´s, recalculated 450 and 900 steps are very inconsistent and are suffering from Pixelwalk issues, general tracking at 1800 is fine, jitters alot on 3500cpi.

Pixelwalk is also the reason why some people report a lag on the 3090 zowies, interpolation and using the sensor outside of the recommended specs are the cause in this case, depends on many factors to notice it.



Skylit, one of the more knowledgeable mouse experts at OCN maintains that all cmos based sensors have an inherent form of acceleration. Though I will not pretend to know exactly how that works, as I usually go by testing results


Thats because it actually isnt acceleration, a more correct term for example would be Trackinglinearity, CPI are never 100% stable with any system, the only question is, if it is perceivable/has an impact or not. One System can have a Variance of 5%, another 0.5%, and so on.

Hey Woll3, nice to see some of the people from other places sharing information here. When I update the guide I will take into account this comment. I should also start making a list of contributors. Might have to dig through the old topic to find some as well.
Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0

Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #70 on: Fri, 25 July 2014, 07:44:15 »
1) What is the cheapest mouse with 800dpi and no acceleration, angle snapping or other smoothing nonsense? (So I can kill it and implant the guts into an old IME3.0)

2) What is the biggest mouse with 800dpi and no acceleration, angle snapping or other smoothing nonsense? (IME3.0 size or bigger, EC1 is small)

By now I know most mice and their characteristics, so I can give some feedback based on that. However, I have pretty much no clue about the prices. I guess you could look up the prices of some of the mice in this thread. Maybe a (used) G400 if you can find it. It was never expensive to begin with, and there were a lot around.

If you consider the EC1 small, then there are not too many options. If you like the shape of the IME 3.0, then the Alcor might be worth checking out, since I think that is actually the mouse that comes closest to that shape and size. The only other mouse that is of comparable size that I can think of is the Steelseries Rival. Pretty much all other mice I can think of are of near EC1/Deathadder size or smaller.

Without having tried all of the mice myself, I actually do not think I can give 100% reliable feedback on the issue of smoothing for all of the mice in the guide.
« Last Edit: Fri, 25 July 2014, 07:50:35 by Grim Fandango »
Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0

Offline dmbr

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #71 on: Fri, 25 July 2014, 14:59:48 »
Great mouse, though. Scroll wheel is perfect, buttons nice and clicky and require minimal pressure to activate, nice limber cord, great ergonomics, nice and light.
quite the glowing review. i'm struggling to choose between this one and the Avior 7000. the FK1 seems good too but seeing as i'm used to the original Deathadder's Omron switch, the Huano wouldn't be a good match for me

I'm not confident in the sensor, though. Enough so that I went with the otherwise less-desirable g502.

The liftoff distance is fixed, which is good, but coming from a Zowie EVo EC 2 CL and The original Kone Pure (yes, I use two mice) I simply wasn't landing shots with it. With the g502, the weight is too much for me and I'm unfamiliar with the grip, but I'm still landing more shots than before even being in the adjustment phase.

Just dismissable anecdotal evidence, of course...simply saying you might want to research the performance of its sensor before you jump in. 

« Last Edit: Fri, 25 July 2014, 15:03:37 by dmbr »

Offline whentheclouds

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #72 on: Fri, 25 July 2014, 15:41:38 »
as far as i know, the 3366 sensor used by the g502 is one of a kind right now, and seeing as a lot of brands have released new mice with the 3310 sensor (second best apparently), i don't think there will be any new mice with the 3366 sensor coming soon. the question then becomes a matter of choosing the best 3310 mouse (FK1 vs Avior 7000 vs Roccat Miliraty). i think you're the first person to dismiss the 3310 sensor, and while i value your opinion as much as any other i read online, it's not enough to sway me from getting one of these two mice :D

Offline Lotus

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #73 on: Fri, 25 July 2014, 17:06:39 »
How can I double check what sensor my mouse uses? I just purchased the Perixx MX-1800 and it claims it uses the Avago A3090 sensor, however I thought that was an optical sensor and so would produce visible light. The only light coming from my mouse is from the LED Color to indicate mode (and look cool). Did they just strait up lie to me on their specs? I bought the mouse because for $22, it seemed to have all the specs I wanted: a3090 sensor, omron switches, etc. How can I check to see if I got swindled?

Offline davkol

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #74 on: Fri, 25 July 2014, 17:12:38 »
Ummm... infrared diode?

Offline Lotus

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #75 on: Fri, 25 July 2014, 17:15:03 »
Ummm... infrared diode?
I thought those were used in laser sensors and the A3090 is an optical sensor.

Offline davkol

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #76 on: Fri, 25 July 2014, 17:33:54 »
Optical sensors use LEDs. It can emit infrared or visible light. My Roccat Savu doesn't "shine" either.

Offline dmbr

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #77 on: Fri, 25 July 2014, 22:53:53 »
as far as i know, the 3366 sensor used by the g502 is one of a kind right now, and seeing as a lot of brands have released new mice with the 3310 sensor (second best apparently), i don't think there will be any new mice with the 3366 sensor coming soon. the question then becomes a matter of choosing the best 3310 mouse (FK1 vs Avior 7000 vs Roccat Miliraty). i think you're the first person to dismiss the 3310 sensor, and while i value your opinion as much as any other i read online, it's not enough to sway me from getting one of these two mice :D
If you trust the sensor, I say go for it. Great mouse.

Offline Emmiya

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #78 on: Sat, 26 July 2014, 06:48:41 »
So, the new Razer Abyssus 2014 arrived at my house today.
At first glance it looks quite amazing.
Pretty much a carbon copy of the Taipan shape, only a bit smaller. One thing that actually has upset me a lot more than it should have, is the thumb grips.
On the taipan they are made out of a nice rubber material to actually enable gripping, however on the abyssus it is simply patterened plastic in the same style(you can see the light reflecting off it in pic 2).
Other than that though, no complaints. Good shape/size/feel for my hand.

So enough about aesthetics. On to the real testing... Despite using a tried-and-tested optical sensor(s3888), which I have had no problems with in the past(deathadder, previous abyssus versions) Unfortunately it suffers from negative acceleration at 400dpi on both cloth and hard surfaces. I don't have precise numbers because i'm simply a n00b, however it is enough to render the mouse unusable in a competitive fps game. Other than that, the tracking does seem to be quite good. No jitters/angle snapping/ good LOD etc.

p.s. if you own one of these and take it apart, enjoy the fun of putting it back together :D The internal PCB is literally left just loose inside the mouse, and you have to physically compress it down in order to hook the red tabs under the blue slots. Otherwise the L&RMB  will not be low enough to activate the switches.

Regardless, I'm going to try it for a few days and see whether this negative acceleration issue is as big of an issue as I make it out to be.

Once again:  here's an example of it in action : Youtube


Edit: OK... I don't even...

Something wasn't sitting right with me about the s3888 having such an obvious acceleration issue, when I own 5 other mice here using the exact same sensor, and none of them suffer from it.
Deleted the Razer synapse software, and it seems to have fixed it. Guess i'll just have to figure out what the natural dpi is now and try alter my sensitivity to adjust for that.
« Last Edit: Sat, 26 July 2014, 10:53:33 by Emmiya »

Offline woll3

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #79 on: Sat, 26 July 2014, 12:40:31 »
Great mouse.

There are big performance differences when it comes to A3090 mice, particular in the lower end, best example would be the new Abyssus 2014, not to mention that you get what you are paying for, while in the lower end mice can be equipped with Omrons and 3090´s, that money will be saved in other places, for example the LED´s, which brings us back to the MX-1800 which has conflicting reports about the LOD and tracking speed, cheap LED´s(the one that illuminates the mousing surface) might be one of the causes for that.

Guess i'll just have to figure out what the natural dpi is now and try alter my sensitivity to adjust for that.

1800, and yes its this "synapse filter´s" fault, same happened with the 3G and 3.5G with synapse, not to mention the PCBang edition(Synapse only), which has some similarities in its behaviour with the Abyssus 2014.....
« Last Edit: Sat, 26 July 2014, 12:44:41 by woll3 »

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #80 on: Mon, 28 July 2014, 15:16:35 »
What about adding the Roccat XTD Optical?

It's out, uses the PAW3988 sensor (believe that's Pixart, right)? They seem to have fixed the scroll wheel. Only thing I found so far is some people noticed some smoothing at higher CPI, but that it has less jitter with higher CPI (judging other forums). But there are also people who do not experience smoothing at all, so perhaps it is subjective or very little smoothing.
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Offline Oobly

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #81 on: Tue, 29 July 2014, 07:12:57 »
about the R.A.T. 3´s performance:

Malfunction Speed around 2.5m/s at 1800/900/450, LOD around 3 cd´s, recalculated 450 and 900 steps are very inconsistent and are suffering from Pixelwalk issues, general tracking at 1800 is fine, jitters alot on 3500cpi.

Pixelwalk is also the reason why some people report a lag on the 3090 zowies, interpolation and using the sensor outside of the recommended specs are the cause in this case, depends on many factors to notice it.


Skylit, one of the more knowledgeable mouse experts at OCN maintains that all cmos based sensors have an inherent form of acceleration. Though I will not pretend to know exactly how that works, as I usually go by testing results


Thats because it actually isnt acceleration, a more correct term for example would be Trackinglinearity, CPI are never 100% stable with any system, the only question is, if it is perceivable/has an impact or not. One System can have a Variance of 5%, another 0.5%, and so on.

Good info, thanks. I guess I accidentally use mine in the sweet spot then, very happy with tracking and accuracy of mine so far.

I am severely tempted to buy the new RAT TE, though. I think I'll wait for a few more people to get them and we can get some more data on that new sensor, but so far it's looking very good.
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Offline MaximilianKohler

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #82 on: Fri, 01 August 2014, 02:58:58 »
Great thread OP! Thanks for the effort. You put a lot of good information here for uninformed people.


- Which 2 or 3 mice would be best suited for twitch-based FPS games like Counter-Strike and Quake or is it still almost exclusively personal preference?? (90% of my gaming time is playing Counter-Strike 1.6 & CS:GO competitively)

- If it's not exclusively based on personal preference (especially size, shape, feel, etc), what else is it based on? What should I be looking for?

Currently you're going to have to make a compromise because there is no ideal mouse at the moment. Almost all new mice have some kind of smoothing delay or artificial processing that causes them to feel inaccurate in FPS games. The MLT04 sensor (Intellimouse 3.0, 1.1, WMO) and Razer Copperhead are the only two sensors I've used that have not had this issue. The MLT04 has significantly higher malfunction speed though (1.5 vs 0.7).

New/recent mice pros & cons:
1. High malfunction speeds (3-6m/s)
2. High and adjustable DPI
3. Native 500-1000hz
4. They all have some kind of smoothing delay that makes the mouse feel imprecise in FPS games.

MLT04 pros & cons:
1. The sensor accuracy will give you an advantage in FPS games.
2. Only 400 DPI
3. The perfect control speed is 1.5m/s which is significantly higher than the copperhead (0.7m/s iirc) but lower than newer mice.
4. Have to overclock to 500hz yourself (not doable in win8 currently, unless it comes with your motherboard (fatality z87 killer).

If you decide on a newer mouse, then as far as which mouse really depends on your personal preference. They all have their own flaws with shape for many of us. I reviewed some of the latest and most popular ones here.

Note that this is common knowledge in the competitive FPS community (CS 1.6 and quake), but most casuals aren't aware of the fact due to lack of experience with the MLT04, or they play casual games that are poorly coded and thus mask the inferior tracking of other mice. This guy is a competitive quake (and other games) player who has reviewed multiple mice and came to the same conclusion:

youtube.com/user/Ramla777
Ramla777 posted a comment
1 year ago(today is dec 26 2012)
Currently I use the abyssus. I only use the wmo when I play 1.6. It just feels so much more accurate in that game. I use the abyssus for every other game. CS:S Quake COD SC2
High level, competitive CS 1.6 player

My reviews: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd

Offline Oobly

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #83 on: Fri, 01 August 2014, 06:23:01 »
I do actually have the impression that the older RAT3 (pln2030 sensor) is a hair more accurate than the new one (3090). Hard to give solid evidence, but it just feels more crisp (it's actually the most precise mouse I have used).

A bit odd considering the switch to optical sensor was supposedly for increased accuracy.

This is why I am so excited about the new Tournament Edition, seems like it could be a worthy successor to my old RAT3 (new doppler sensor, sniper button, adjustable back piece, light weight, OMRON switches instead of Zhij). But both RAT3's are still going strong, so I have no real excuse to buy a new mouse  :)
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Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #84 on: Fri, 01 August 2014, 09:06:48 »
I do actually have the impression that the older RAT3 (pln2030 sensor) is a hair more accurate than the new one (3090). Hard to give solid evidence, but it just feels more crisp (it's actually the most precise mouse I have used).

A bit odd considering the switch to optical sensor was supposedly for increased accuracy.

This is why I am so excited about the new Tournament Edition, seems like it could be a worthy successor to my old RAT3 (new doppler sensor, sniper button, adjustable back piece, light weight, OMRON switches instead of Zhij). But both RAT3's are still going strong, so I have no real excuse to buy a new mouse  :)

I've always found it surprisingly hard to get correct results from subjective impressions. For example, my Hades H8 Phorcy (with an unidentified sensor that they claim was made by STMicroelectronics) feels like it's extremely accurate and responsive, but it's actually deeply flawed, as revealed by objective tests, and in-game performance is accordingly much worse than you'd get with a 3090 + decent firmware/ancillaries.

I can't say whether your case is the same, since I don't use RAT mice, and there may well be some problem with the 3090 version that keeps it from living up to the potential of the sensor, but it's at least something to keep in mind. Do you notice any difference in game results that cannot be attributed to differences in familiarity with the device or increased amounts of practice in the game?
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Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #85 on: Fri, 01 August 2014, 19:27:13 »
Great thread OP! Thanks for the effort. You put a lot of good information here for uninformed people.

Thanks for the support!

I quite enjoy the fact that more and more mouse enthusiast are finding their way to this thread and are contributing to the discussion. All of it helps to build the amount of information that we gather here. That is what the thread should be. Even the information in the guide is more of a compilation of information rather than specific knowledge that came from me personally. So contributions in any way are appreciated.

**I made some small updates here and there and added the Roccat Kone Pure Military to the list (3310 sensor).
« Last Edit: Sat, 02 August 2014, 08:07:32 by Grim Fandango »
Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0

Offline cbot

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #86 on: Fri, 01 August 2014, 21:08:46 »
OP this thread is a masterpiece. I can tell you have taken much time and dedication into this. Why not become a reviewer or something on some big tech sites? Have you thought about that?

Offline zhd

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #87 on: Sun, 03 August 2014, 07:09:20 »
can someone help me out with this:

"Has noticeable smoothing not unlike the DA 2013 or G400s."

what does this sentence mean? the smoothing is higher than da 2013, or lower? (english is not my native language)

i currently looking into zowie fk1, roccat kone pure military and Mionix Avior 7000. i opened a topic for suggestions and these two recommended to me. and i addet kone pure military because it has the same sensor as other two: 3310. as i understand, it is the best optical sensor avaliable right now.
so, are they have excessive smoothing? are they have lag or responsibility issues?
and how they compared to razer da 2013 in that regard?

Offline munch

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #88 on: Sun, 03 August 2014, 09:26:25 »
DA2013 has more smoothing AFAIK.

the FK1, Kone Pure Military and Avior 7000 have noticeably less smoothing/lag, and I think either of those will be very good - just pick the one you think you will like the shape better of! :)

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #89 on: Sun, 03 August 2014, 11:11:15 »
can someone help me out with this:

"Has noticeable smoothing not unlike the DA 2013 or G400s."

what does this sentence mean? the smoothing is higher than da 2013, or lower? (english is not my native language)

i currently looking into zowie fk1, roccat kone pure military and Mionix Avior 7000. i opened a topic for suggestions and these two recommended to me. and i addet kone pure military because it has the same sensor as other two: 3310. as i understand, it is the best optical sensor avaliable right now.
so, are they have excessive smoothing? are they have lag or responsibility issues?
and how they compared to razer da 2013 in that regard?

DISCLAIMER: I have no idea if there are forum policies forbidding me to do so (links to other forums), but my references are OC (overclock.net) because I found them to provide me with the most specific and detailed information I needed to contrast between the G400s, DA2013, Kone XTD Optical, Kone Pure Military, and the Mionix Avior (Naos) 7000.

The G400s is argued to have smoothing up to the point that some (or a lot) of gamers hat the sensor user (S3090, Logitech's variant in the G400s: S3095), see here:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1440395/avago-3090-4000-dpi-rom-is-not-a-valid-gaming-mouse-sensor-please-release-a-firmware-update-to-save-the-kana-v2

The DeathAdder 2013 uses the S3988 sensor and has argued or found to have considerable more smoothing compared to the G400s, see here:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1420084/best-optical-sensor-in-the-market-atm-deathadder-2013s-s3988-or-logitech-g400s-s3095

Recently, the Kone XTD (not pure) Optical has come out, also equipped with the S3988 sensor, but people have not agreed yet on whether it is the sensor in the S3988 that causes the smoothing or the implementation (algorithms) or software (Synapse) making it worse. See here (2x):

http://www.overclock.net/t/1457877/roccat-kone-xtd-optical
http://www.overclock.net/t/1503674/roccat-kone-xtd-xtd-optical

Lastly, the Naos Avior (and Naos) 7000 have the S3310 sensor, which has found to be amongst the best packages money can buy, see here (2x):

http://www.overclock.net/t/1469836/mionix-avior-7000-first-impressions-review
http://www.overclock.net/t/1447157/mionix-avior-7000-unboxing-first-closer-look-and-review

With regards to the Kone Pure Military, it also comes with the S3310 sensor, but I have no idea whether it is as good as or better than the Mionix Naos / Avior 7000, see here (2x):

http://www.overclock.net/t/1492197/roccat-kone-pure-military
http://www.overclock.net/t/1499343/roccat-kone-pure-military-review

In conclusion: I have both the G400s and the Avior 7000. I purchased the Avior 7000 because I wanted something better than my G400s. And I fell in love with the Avior 7000, because of the lack of smoothing. When I gently push the mouse, the cursor moves instantaneously. Never had a mouse this responsive ever before.

Based on what I've read, this is how I think they stack up (IMHO):

Avior 7000 > Kone Military > G400s > Kone XTD Optical > DA 2013





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Offline zhd

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #90 on: Sun, 03 August 2014, 13:46:13 »
OMG! that was really helpful! thanks man.

it is decided then, the avior 7000 it is! i will not look back.

a good mouse pad advice would be awesome too. i will use the mouse with "virgin grade 0.5 mm ptfe sheet". gonna cut parts from the sheet in shape of mouse feets. basicly, it is bulk hyperglide :D so i don't need to worry about fast wear out rate of feets with aluminium or hard plastic mats.
i wonder which kind of pad tracks best, or does it even makes difference in this regard? razer claims 25 percent better tracking with destructor 2. and i wonder aluminium is any worse than others in this regard(tracking)
i want "low start to move force" (excuse my english) i think this would help me to make micro adjustments with my very high sensitivty.
how about aluminium pads?

damn, my current mouse lasted 7 years. it is x7 oscar 740k. well done a4tech, at least in regard of durability.



Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #91 on: Sun, 03 August 2014, 14:47:41 »
OMG! that was really helpful! thanks man.

it is decided then, the avior 7000 it is! i will not look back.

a good mouse pad advice would be awesome too. i will use the mouse with "virgin grade 0.5 mm ptfe sheet". gonna cut parts from the sheet in shape of mouse feets. basicly, it is bulk hyperglide :D so i don't need to worry about fast wear out rate of feets with aluminium or hard plastic mats.
i wonder which kind of pad tracks best, or does it even makes difference in this regard? razer claims 25 percent better tracking with destructor 2. and i wonder aluminium is any worse than others in this regard(tracking)
i want "low start to move force" (excuse my english) i think this would help me to make micro adjustments with my very high sensitivty.
how about aluminium pads?

damn, my current mouse lasted 7 years. it is x7 oscar 740k. well done a4tech, at least in regard of durability.

Sure, no problem! I am happy to share my thoughts :) Again, for the mousepad I went through a lot of reviews and eventually I bought the Roccat Hiro. It is indeed quite expensive (40-50 dollars in the US? Cost me ± 47 euro's here in Europe). There are not that much reviews out yet, see here:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1317515/roccat-roccat-unveils-groundbreaking-hiro-3d-supremacy-surface-gaming-pad

I have been using it for roughly a week now and it is the best thing I have ever owned. I went from my wooden desk to this mousemat and it makes the world of a difference. It is both teflon-coated as well as canvas. The edges are somehow merged into each other so that it won't fray. Whether that will work I have to find out in the next year or so. But I have to tell you: the surface is extremely even and the back is incredibly sticky to my desk. And it tracks perfectly with both my G400s and my Avior 7000. I ran the S.Q.A.T. analyser (how well your mouse tracks, measured by Mionix's software through the sensor) and I obtained a score of 80% (ran it about 10 times to get me some variance).

I don't know what exactly you are looking for in a mousepad, but I want:
- an even surface
- no or as little fraying as possible
- smooth and good gliding
- soft

This mousemat has it all.

What are the mouse feet you are talking about? Is it really that good? Are they special in any way or are they just cheap? You might as well take a look here:

http://mionix.net/accessories/

Mionix sells their own 'mouse glides' and it is not that expensive. As a matter of fact, they even make it easy to lift the mouse glidez that are under the Avior.

You might also consider the Naos 7000 if you are more into palm grip. Both the Naos and the Avior are exactly the same, except the shape (Avior is claw grip, Naos is palm grip) and the mouse glides (Avior has sick huge glides, Naos a bit smaller).
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Offline TotalChaos

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #92 on: Sun, 03 August 2014, 15:49:33 »
I don't know what exactly you are looking for in a mousepad, but I want:
- an even surface
- no or as little fraying as possible
- smooth and good gliding
- soft

This mousemat has it all.

Doesn't every mousepad on the market meet those criteria?

Did you buy a couple of other random cheap-O mousepads to compare the superduper expensive one against them to see if there is any real life functional difference?

If you have discovered a truly superior mousepad that costs me $50.00 then I will buy it.

But right now I am using some 20 year old mousepads that meet all your criteria except they are frayed a bit on 3 edges.  Just 3 tiny spots of fraying that don't bother me at all.

But since you payed big bux for your mousepad you have got me thinking... maybe my old mousepads are not as slippery as yours?  My old mousepads have a hard smooth surface that seems totally ok to me.  But I don't have your mousepad here to compare against.  For all I know yours is MOAR slipperier.

The reason I am interested in this subject is that I simply cannot find a high-DPI lightweight mouse.  As near as I can tell they don't exist.  But I could cheat and compensate for an overweight mouse by using some sort of spaceage superslippery mousepad.
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Offline munch

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #93 on: Sun, 03 August 2014, 16:29:40 »
OMG! that was really helpful! thanks man.

it is decided then, the avior 7000 it is! i will not look back.

a good mouse pad advice would be awesome too. i will use the mouse with "virgin grade 0.5 mm ptfe sheet". gonna cut parts from the sheet in shape of mouse feets. basicly, it is bulk hyperglide :D so i don't need to worry about fast wear out rate of feets with aluminium or hard plastic mats.
i wonder which kind of pad tracks best, or does it even makes difference in this regard? razer claims 25 percent better tracking with destructor 2. and i wonder aluminium is any worse than others in this regard(tracking)
i want "low start to move force" (excuse my english) i think this would help me to make micro adjustments with my very high sensitivty.
how about aluminium pads?

damn, my current mouse lasted 7 years. it is x7 oscar 740k. well done a4tech, at least in regard of durability.




for low start move force, plastic or aluminium/glass are pretty much unbeatable. but durability on the plastic ones can be a bit troublesome.
if you are in europe, I would recommend ModMyMachine Slamepad. fantastic for high sensitivity. just needs to be wiped off daily, doesn't wear out fast at all.
but in the US/Asia I suspect it might be very expensive.
otherwise the Icemat (Steelseries I-2) or any clone of it is a solid durable choice, perfect for high sensitivity as well.

Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #94 on: Sun, 03 August 2014, 16:49:01 »
On the subject of smoothing. People who have experienced the delay associated with it know that it is a fairly subtle thing. I think it would be pretty hard to compare the extent of the problem between mice even if you have the luxury of comparing them side by side. It is much harder, if not impossible, to make a comparison based on anecdotal evidence that you find here and there on the web. I am not saying that you should ignore the things you read and hear about it. Just to be aware that not everything you read is 100% accurate. One clear indication of this is that you can find many conflicting statements about this and many other mouse characteristics.


« Last Edit: Sun, 03 August 2014, 16:55:56 by Grim Fandango »
Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0

Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #95 on: Sun, 03 August 2014, 16:56:01 »
On the subject of mousepads. This is something that I plan to include more of in the guide (though I need to learn more about them, and if possible I would like to get some more testing results). Which mousepad is best/good/ worth the price really depends on what you are looking for and what your individual preferences are. However, the number one thing is that your sensor has to track well on the mousepad. The tracking performance of any sensor is really dependent on the surface and for any type sensor that you can find, you can also find surfaces on which the performance of tracking is greatly reduced. The most obvious way in which the sensor is affected is the speed with which you can move the mouse without it stopping its tracking. Companies actually test their mice on different surfaces to see whether its performance is what they are looking for. The thing they put on the box ( "40g acceleration" ) are often best case scenarios that are not matched when using a normal mousepad.

For the optical mice that we see on this list, you would be surprised what kind of surface works best from a performance standpoint. There are a number of sources where the people who work at these companies state what kind of surface is best for performance according to their testing. They all respond that a black (dark) hard surface with a little structure (not perfectly smooth) generally works best. François Morier, who is a logitech engineer that has some videos on youtube even goes into more detail, saying that the pattern (irregular or not) does not really matter and that performance deteriorates when the surface is too rough. There are also some other things to take into account, such as how color can affect lift of distance and so on, and not every optical sensor will perform best on the same surface.

So why don't we all play on hard structured plastic? Basically, for the same reason that we do not all use the same mouse with the "theoretically" best sensor: We are human. We look for things that we find comfortable. Something that resonates with us because if feels right when we use it. There are a lot of surfaces that still give us a good enough performance while also managing to feel good. This is why cloth pads are still the most common pads we come across, whether it is at home or in the pro circuit. People look for mousepads of a certain size, that gives them a certain level or resistance and smoothness of glide when using the mouse on it. All of these things are subjective and up to the individual.

One thing people often ask is whether it is worth it to pay for very expensive mousepads over some of the cheaper options. I am undecided on the issue. When it comes to performance, it is not true that buying a 50 dollar mousepad will always outperform something like a Qck heavy. As of yet, I have seen nothing in terms of testing where I can objectively state that performance-wise, you should be spending that amount of money on a mousepad. This does not mean that there are never any differences, just that on the few tests that I have seen, there seems to be no relation between performance and price. Additionally, in terms of durability it is also not necessarily the case that the more expensive mousepads outperform the more reasonably priced ones. We know this because of the known durability issues on some of the expensive pads, and the known durability of some of the cheaper ones. So why should anyone ever buy a more expensive mousepad? I think that if they do it to gain some sort of advantage in terms of performance it might be a bit of a waste. However, it could be the case that there is a specific surface that people just really like, and they are willing to spend some extra money just for that reason. After all, there are some mousepads out there that have their own unique feel (Something like an Icepad).  At the same time, it is also true that the more "special/unique" surfaces are also the ones most likely to cause tracking issues, as they deviate more from the simple structured surface that many sensors favor. Additionally, and this is just from personal experience, I find that some of the more expensive "premium" mousepads can at times feel pretty much exactly like their much cheaper alternatives.
« Last Edit: Sun, 03 August 2014, 17:04:26 by Grim Fandango »
Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #96 on: Sun, 03 August 2014, 17:10:16 »
On the subject of smoothing. People who have experienced the delay associated with it know that it is a fairly subtle thing. I think it would be pretty hard to compare the extent of the problem between mice even if you have the luxury of comparing them side by side. It is much harder, if not impossible, to make a comparison based on anecdotal evidence that you find here and there on the web. I am not saying that you should ignore the things you read and hear about it. Just to be aware that not everything you read is 100% accurate. One clear indication of this is that you can find many conflicting statements about this and many other mouse characteristics.

I agree. And although I do not want to obscure this with further anecdotal evidence, I really want to point out that I clearly feel the difference between my G400s and my Avior 7000. When I gently push the G400s 1-1.5cm NOTHING happens. When I push my Avior 7000 as little as 1mm it the cursor starts moving.

All I want to say is, although this should be taken with a grain of salt, some mouses clearly differ when you directly compare them, at least IMHO.
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Offline zhd

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #97 on: Sun, 03 August 2014, 17:11:29 »
i am in turkey but overclockers.co.uk does not ship to turkey :( i have found it on ebay for 75 usd at one seller and 100 usd at other with acceptable shipping costs. if i could buy it directly from germany, that would be great. i really want that pad because as i understand it is the best alu mat. also unlike steelseries sx and some other aluminum pad that i looked, doesnt have a coating/painting that might come off. and there is no other alternative material left for me other than alu and glass because i would hate uneven wearing with plastics and cloth is out of consideration right from the start.  i really would like to buy the glass pad, but it is discontinued and cant find it anywhere.

anyway, if you really suggest it, i will pay to a mat more than mouse itself and buy it :D i might also consider ss i 2 glass mat too if i can find it somewhere( i wonder if glass could cause problems with opticals). but as i understand, you find slamepad superior to anything.

i would also love to have your thoughts about teflon feets as a hyperglide user. so, do you think i can efficiently cut my own skates from a sheet teflon? at hyperglide.net, they explain their product as 0.50mm pure teflon. that stuff is avaliable as freaking sheets! i heard at glass and alu mats, teflon skates do wear out in a month and start to make noise. so i thought if can buy it bulk and cut out my own parts i can have perfect glide for years. i might even sell custom skates to dudes here for a resonable price :D they know no hyperglide, who knows they might like it.

btw, Op is like a tresure of info. thanks for awesome topic. :thumb:
« Last Edit: Sun, 03 August 2014, 17:20:17 by zhd »

Offline MaximilianKohler

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #98 on: Sun, 03 August 2014, 17:12:04 »
In my experience, "gaming" mousepads are a waste of money. I bought a large, generic mousepad from a local store in the US for $8 and it's better than any $25+ mousepad I've used.

It's called "supermat". It's on Amazon but people have mixed experiences with the ones there.
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Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #99 on: Sun, 03 August 2014, 17:25:25 »
On the subject of mousepads. This is something that I plan to include more of in the guide (though I need to learn more about them, and if possible I would like to get some more testing results). Which mousepad is best/good/ worth the price really depends on what you are looking for and what your individual preferences are. However, the number one thing is that your sensor has to track well on the mousepad. The tracking performance of any sensor is really dependent on the surface and for any type sensor that you can find, you can also find surfaces on which the performance of tracking is greatly reduced. The most obvious way in which the sensor is affected is the speed with which you can move the mouse without it stopping its tracking. Companies actually test their mice on different surfaces to see whether its performance is what they are looking for. The thing they put on the box ( "40g acceleration" ) are often best case scenarios that are not matched when using a normal mousepad.

For the optical mice that we see on this list, you would be surprised what kind of surface works best from a performance standpoint. There are a number of sources where the people who work at these companies state what kind of surface is best for performance according to their testing. They all respond that a black (dark) hard surface with a little structure (not perfectly smooth) generally works best. François Morier, who is a logitech engineer that has some videos on youtube even goes into more detail, saying that the pattern (irregular or not) does not really matter and that performance deteriorates when the surface is too rough. There are also some other things to take into account, such as how color can affect lift of distance and so on, and not every optical sensor will perform best on the same surface.

So why don't we all play on hard structured plastic? Basically, for the same reason that we do not all use the same mouse with the "theoretically" best sensor: We are human. We look for things that we find comfortable. Something that resonates with us because if feels right when we use it. There are a lot of surfaces that still give us a good enough performance while also managing to feel good. This is why cloth pads are still the most common pads we come across, whether it is at home or in the pro circuit. People look for mousepads of a certain size, that gives them a certain level or resistance and smoothness of glide when using the mouse on it. All of these things are subjective and up to the individual.

One thing people often ask is whether it is worth it to pay for very expensive mousepads over some of the cheaper options. I am undecided on the issue. When it comes to performance, it is not true that buying a 50 dollar mousepad will always outperform something like a Qck heavy. As of yet, I have seen nothing in terms of testing where I can objectively state that performance-wise, you should be spending that amount of money on a mousepad. This does not mean that there are never any differences, just that on the few tests that I have seen, there seems to be no relation between performance and price. Additionally, in terms of durability it is also not necessarily the case that the more expensive mousepads outperform the more reasonably priced ones. We know this because of the known durability issues on some of the expensive pads, and the known durability of some of the cheaper ones. So why should anyone ever buy a more expensive mousepad? I think that if they do it to gain some sort of advantage in terms of performance it might be a bit of a waste. However, it could be the case that there is a specific surface that people just really like, and they are willing to spend some extra money just for that reason. After all, there are some mousepads out there that have their own unique feel (Something like an Icepad).  At the same time, it is also true that the more "special/unique" surfaces are also the ones most likely to cause tracking issues, as they deviate more from the simple structured surface that many sensors favor. Additionally, and this is just from personal experience, I find that some of the more expensive "premium" mousepads can at times feel pretty much exactly like their much cheaper alternatives.

I agree. On a more personal note, the trade off for me lies between durability vs money. I am very well willing to pay $$$ for something that will last me a decade. Makes me feel relaxed, not having to worry about buying new stuff.
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