[IC]GMK Triumph Adler [LIVE!!!!]

[intelli78]

Alright guys, mockup is ready! Let's hear feedback. Warning in advance, though: I think this layout (borrowed from Ivan's recent Dolch GB) is one of the best possible compromises. I'm not going to add keys unless there is an overwhelming majority in favor of it. Sorry, but with 500 MOQ and a price premium, we just can't afford to add more unless basically everyone is on board.

NOTE: The teal is an approximation only, they will COLOR MATCH a real cap for us. PM me if you can help with that. You'll get it back.

Also, I chose blue legends for the alphas because that's how they appear to have aged -- less yellowed than the mods. But we could also do all teal -- here's a quick Photoshop job I did to show the difference: http://i.imgur.com/5rDuidj.png Any thoughts on this?

[intelli78]

Also, color chips to show IRL colors, subject to monitor calibration. We're using 2M, 2B, and V4 plus custom teal.

[LechnerDE]

The mockup looks awesome!

I know you said no more changes, but there is one thing I have to post in every IC (and I also did in this one already ):

Please consider including the "`~" and "\|" keys in both colors, so people can chose between classic and symmetrical look.

I strongly prefer the symmetrical look especially on 60% boards!

Edit:           

Another thing

The original set had arrows and "pg up" etc on the numpad keys. I think we should go for the original approach!

[whentheclouds]

just amazing. looks like some of the previously mentioned requests won't be granted, the most notable imo being colored symmetrical ~ and \; Ctrl instead of Control; and no corresponding navigation legends on the numpad. no symmetrical ~ and \ is the biggest letdown, but all of those are extremely minor sacrifices that i'd be willing to make to get my hands on this set

also, is there a chance for us to order a color matching spacebar, or do you think the 500 MOQ is too high as well?

[nubbinator]

I know you said no more changes, but there is one thing I have to post in every IC (and I also did in this one already ):

Please consider including the "`~" and "\|" keys in both colors, so people can chose between classic and symmetrical look.

I strongly prefer the symmetrical look especially on 60% boards!

This  times ��.  The people who want the option for symmetry make up a larger portion of the population than the small number for whom so many other random keys are added.  Please add a pair of symmetry keys.  It's cheap and a minor addition that will make a ton of people happy.

[geniekid]

I would like a R1 1x \|, R2 1.5x Del/Bksp and R3 Control for HHKB support.  I understand the HHKB-esque layout is not that popular so consider this more of planting the seed for the future

[intelli78]

Like I said, I am down if most people are. Majority wins. I am only cautioning that minority requests, unfortunately, will not pass, and to please try to understand that. Sorry in advance to AZERTY typists, etc. 

Anybody else in favor of symmetrical keys, speak up.

I am down to copy the old numpad legends. I'm also fine with CTRL instead of Control. It doesn't cost anything to change legends. The only thing i am personally against is icon-only mods, despite the fact that most of the original TA boards had them. In this case I think the modern versions are better. But again, I will compromise if majority demands it.

Re: HHKB support... yeah, I would like it too but it's a lot of keys and like you said it's just not that popular. We can maybe do it as a sub-set, but I bet you it'll die at 20-30 orders. 

Speak up if you have strong feelings on any of these subjects...

[CommonCurt]

Very interested.

I would also like to see the navigation on the numpad, and would it be possible to get  * and / on the numpad?

Also  I prefer  control cover ctrl.

[billnye]

Can you include another r4 "alt" cap? I prefer the symmetry.

I hope this makes moq! I would love to see more custom color GMK sets in the future.

[LechnerDE]

Can you include another r4 "alt" cap? I prefer the symmetry.

I hope this makes moq! I would love to see more custom color GMK sets in the future.

I think it's better to just drop the "alt gr" key and replace it with a simple "alt" key.

Isn't that an ISO thing anyway? And as an ISO user myself I don't care whether my right alt key says "gr" because half of the legends are wrong anyway for my language.

[billnye]

Can you include another r4 "alt" cap? I prefer the symmetry.

I hope this makes moq! I would love to see more custom color GMK sets in the future.

I think it's better to just drop the "alt gr" key and replace it with a simple "alt" key.

Isn't that an ISO thing anyway? And as an ISO user myself I don't care whether my right alt key says "gr" because half of the legends are wrong anyway for my language.

Yes it's an ISO thing. Ivan has used it on ANSI sets in the past, so that may be why it is here as well.

[whentheclouds]

how about those color matching spacebars? i'm sure plenty of people would jump at the chance to pick up custom colored spacebar - i'd get at least 3 myself. lastly, about the color of the alpha legends, i find blue much more appealing thanks to the stronger contrast against the grey background. or maybe it's the photoshop, i can't tell

[Elocutive]

I'm in! if need be I can buy 2 IF I can get enough money.

[intelli78]

how about those color matching spacebars? i'm sure plenty of people would jump at the chance to pick up custom colored spacebar - i'd get at least 3 myself. lastly, about the color of the alpha legends, i find blue much more appealing thanks to the stronger contrast against the grey background. or maybe it's the photoshop, i can't tell

Interesting idea about the spacebars, probably no harm done by offering it as a sub-set, and possibly that could even help reduce the price of the base kit by using up extra granulate. Will check into that...

Thanks for feedback on the blue legends... I am a little iffy about how they appear on the render, but IRL they should be much darker as shown in the color chips and I think the result will be nicer and more interesting than pure teal.

[HoffmanMyster]

I much prefer not using blue for legends and instead having the legends match the mod colour.  It does appear as though the OG TA set has aged in a non-uniform way which works great for that set, but IMO using blue will look out of place.

Also, as much as I don't personally care about symmetry, if it helps us get to MOQ we need to do it.  This isn't a matter of adding a few dollars to the kit or not adding a few dollars to the kit.  It's a question of adding a few dollars to the kit or not having a kit at all.  I support this set and want to see it get produced.   

[LechnerDE]

Yeah, I am not certain about the blue alpha legends as well. It looks great on the aged vintage set, but brandnew blue might look odd, because the contrast is too sharp.

Dunno, it's really hard to judge by the mockup. This is the set you have to see in real life first, but I am willing to take that gamble

[intelli78]

Keep in mind that it's the V4 color chip -- much darker than the blue in the render. But I feel similarly; all teal would be the safer option, but the blue could potentially be very classy IRL.

[tjweir]

Oooo boy, that looks great.

I hope to have the funds when the GB kicks off.

[FrostyToast]

Could we just have those OCD keys and colored spacebars for 6.25x and 7x in one pack?
It would make the OCD folks happy, plus the colored spacebars mixed in would greatly boost the orders for the pack to ensure we reach MOQ.

[geniekid]

Re: HHKB support... yeah, I would like it too but it's a lot of keys and like you said it's just not that popular. We can maybe do it as a sub-set, but I bet you it'll die at 20-30 orders. 

If it's not too much trouble I would like to see HHKB support offered as a separate set.  If kept to the three keys I mentioned above a lot of people might jump on it just for the R3 control.  It will still likely not make MOQ but I think there's real value to measuring how much interest really exists.

[Photekq]

Looks great intelli. If it were up to me, this is what I would change.

-Numpad legends changed to standard ANSI legends. See G80-3000HAU.
-Remove text from ISO enter, just keep the arrow.
-Remove text from ISO 1.25u left shift, just keep the arrow.
-Add second alt keys, or change the alt gr.
-This one is quite big, and I don't think it's really viable, but I'll suggest it anyway. Remove the UK ISO side legends, and instead print a set of specific UK ISO keys, or even just keep it to US ISO which only requires 1 or 2 extra keys.

The above things are me just being picky. Here are the two things that would decide whether or not I buy the set..

-Ins/Del legends changed to Insert/Delete
-Add an entire A-profile bottom row [instead of the existing B-profile tsangan keys if necessary to keep cost low] - 1.5/1/1.5/7/1.5/1/1.5 + arrows bottom row + numpad bottom row. If this were any other set, it wouldn't decide whether or not I buy. But for TA... for me, it's essential. This set is so retro, and along with beige it's the most classic Cherry set. I think that without A-profile you can't have true classic Cherry.

[MOZ]

Holy Mackerel!

[intelli78]

Would like to get more input on teal legends vs. the blue shown in OP...



I *think* IRL it will look good with the blue and it'll be a much more subtle contrast than it looks in the render. It's a dark blue, V4 here: http://i.imgur.com/LDs4wQI.png

Can't be sure though. Teal would be safer. Thoughts?

[CommonCurt]

I like the blue legends, but would be happy with teal also.

Will these be the same shade of teal as the set Feng's GB?

Does GMK only have one shade of teal?

[MOZ]

Teal!

[intelli78]

I like the blue legends, but would be happy with teal also.

Will these be the same shade of teal as the set Feng's GB?

Does GMK only have one shade of teal?

NO it will not be the same. This will be a custom color, ideally matched to an authentic TA cap. It will be the first ever GMK GB with a custom color.

Feng's GB, to the best of my knowledge, uses the same color that was in Ivan's Dolch GB, which is much brighter IRL than in the renders. (And yes, this is the only teal-like color they have) The custom teal will be much darker; just as it appears in the TA board photos in this thread.

This:


vs this:

[inlikeflynn]

Would like to get more input on teal legends vs. the blue shown in OP...

Show Image

I *think* IRL it will look good with the blue and it'll be a much more subtle contrast than it looks in the render. It's a dark blue, V4 here: http://i.imgur.com/LDs4wQI.png

Can't be sure though. Teal would be safer. Thoughts?

ugh, that looks so nice with the teal alpha's and mod's. this is much better than Feng's cyan set which is nice

the full set of keys like in Ivan's 85|15 set is of course best as it can fit everything known to man, but also so expensive. Using the same keys as Ivan's dolch here can't fit lots of boards, most ironic with Dolch being that it couldn't fit the G80-1800's it originally came on.

I'm not going to ask for the minimum keys necessary to make this fit just MY specific layout (obviously 1800) but what about a blank 1x in each color for R3, R2, & R1. So 6 blanks more added. (Also if you change bottom row to A/R5 profile then that would need 2 teal blanks as well.)

I can't think of any layout you couldn't make work with this addition of blanks. Of course its not perfect and would be better with correct legends everywhere, but I doubt 500 people will pay the $20-25 more a set to do this (dolch vs. 85|15 cost). Going to be hard enough to get 500 to begin with at the price premium this will have

If you need more blanks than that, then let them trade with someone else afterwords....that is probably what i'd do to correct the Delete/End/PgDn profile for 1800

[radio_killah]

The teal on the alphas looks much better than the blue in my opinion. It just seems to fit a little better, the blue contrasted too much with the mods on the render. Not sure how that would turn out in production though.

I don't know how this could possibly reach MOQ though.. You are trying to keep costs down by having fewer keys, but there is already an increase due to the premium on color matching. But by having fewer keys for compatibility it turns off some buyers. This will be tough...

If the premium for color matching doesn't raise the price astronomically I would suggest adding keys to increase compatibility for folks and hopefully that can reel in more for the MOQ.

[Joey Quinn]

I'd vote for blue legends, I love the contrast. I didn't buy into any of the current GBs because I may buy a few of these sets to help it reach MOQ.

[renne]

looks great. no need to change it. remember, you cant fulfill every single wish.

[pasph]

Teal legends is my vote

[geniekid]

Another vote for teal legends here though blue wouldn't be a deal breaker.

[Chemisery]

Oh man, so much GMK goodness recently, but I had already jumped on Feng's GB.. 
Don't get me wrong, both sets look really great, but not great for my wallet.
I will be in for one set if the time is right. 

Teal legend and symmetry please!   

 

[Dee1]

I kind of like the blue legends. It looks closer to what's in the pictures of the keyboard in the first post.

[Heliosphere]

I want it. I need it.

Blue looks neat, I wouldn't mind it. Teal would be fine as well.

I second having a control and caps lock swap option if possible.

[CommonCurt]

Looks great intelli. If it were up to me, this is what I would change.

-Numpad legends changed to standard ANSI legends. See G80-3000HAU.
-Add second alt keys, or change the alt gr.
-Ins/Del legends changed to Insert/Delete

+1 

[Rainbow_]

Oh Jesus, please use all teal...
(sorry if this was solved, I was kinda skimming :s)

[Den441]

The mockups look great and I think you should go with the color in the mockup. I think that would make it more faithful to the original because that color was indeed used on the alphas in the original. Using teal on the alphas as well would take away from the TA feel more than the blue imo. It would basically make it into a darker version of feng's GB. My vote is for the blue.

[FrostyToast]

My view is that anyone could get blue on grey alphas, but this is the one opportunity we will have to get alphas with the teal colour.
Although quotes would definitely help to decide which one is more viable.

[Heliosphere]

Any update? I think if you manage to get the deep teal matched based on the picture, the alphas might look close enough to the bluish tinge, in case we decide to go with teal rather than blue text.

[intelli78]

Any update? I think if you manage to get the deep teal matched based on the picture, the alphas might look close enough to the bluish tinge, in case we decide to go with teal rather than blue text.

I'll make some decisions this weekend and submit a request for the final render and quote. I've heard everyone's requests and I will do what I can to please the majority. I've kind of been dragging my heels because there are so many other GBs happening right now -- but with Hyperfuse etc on the way, that's not going to change, so we might as well get this going asap. I will be contacting Massdrop about assisting with this.

Re: legends -- I am going to go with the teal. It's a safer bet, and also FrostyToast made an excellent point here:

My view is that anyone could get blue on grey alphas, but this is the one opportunity we will have to get alphas with the teal colour.

Will have an update soon.

[radio_killah]

Any update? I think if you manage to get the deep teal matched based on the picture, the alphas might look close enough to the bluish tinge, in case we decide to go with teal rather than blue text.

I'll make some decisions this weekend and submit a request for the final render and quote. I've heard everyone's requests and I will do what I can to please the majority. I've kind of been dragging my heels because there are so many other GBs happening right now -- but with Hyperfuse etc on the way, that's not going to change, so we might as well get this going asap. I will be contacting Massdrop about assisting with this.

Re: legends -- I am going to go with the teal. It's a safer bet, and also FrostyToast made an excellent point here:

My view is that anyone could get blue on grey alphas, but this is the one opportunity we will have to get alphas with the teal colour.

Will have an update soon.

Ugh.. I'd rather not use massdrop after the whole Granite thing.. I get its the Germans and they are MUCH less likely to mess anything up but I know it would help with getting moq. Does GMK offer a lower price with higher moq?

[quochung1989]

Nope. I think with GMK price depend on mockup (amount caps), not relate MOQ. In additional you should see MOQ is Minimum Order Quantity

[intelli78]

Yeah, not normally, but in this case they will be applying a price premium to bring down the MOQ, since normally it is 1,000 for custom colors. I would assume the price premium would be canceled if we reached 1,000. That's HIGHLY unlikely, but maybe they'll offer another tier in between or something. Or maybe Massdrop will negotiate it. I don't know, we'll see what happens.

I didn't follow the Massdrop granite buy. What happened, and whose fault was it, SP or MD? Massdrop will be clutch in 2 areas - MOQ and fulfillment. It will provide far more visibility than we can get otherwise, and they have a whole team to ship things out. I am not as heroic as Ivan, and I really don't want to be responsible for shipping 500+ orders by myself.

[SpAmRaY]

Yeah, not normally, but in this case they will be applying a price premium to bring down the MOQ, since normally it is 1,000 for custom colors. I would assume the price premium would be canceled if we reached 1,000. That's HIGHLY unlikely, but maybe they'll offer another tier in between or something. Or maybe Massdrop will negotiate it. I don't know, we'll see what happens.

I didn't follow the Massdrop granite buy. What happened, and whose fault was it, SP or MD? Massdrop will be clutch in 2 areas - MOQ and fulfillment. It will provide far more visibility than we can get otherwise, and they have a whole team to ship things out. I am not as heroic as Ivan, and I really don't want to be responsible for shipping 500+ orders by myself.

SP sent out screwed up sets again for R2 and massdrops response is their typical, oops here is $25 to make up for your wasted hundreds of dollars spent please go away now.

[trizkut]

I didn't follow the Massdrop granite buy. What happened, and whose fault was it, SP or MD? Massdrop will be clutch in 2 areas - MOQ and fulfillment. It will provide far more visibility than we can get otherwise, and they have a whole team to ship things out. I am not as heroic as Ivan, and I really don't want to be responsible for shipping 500+ orders by myself.

SP was delayed in delivering Granite I think... Massdrop was blamed for taking so long.
Several sets had problems like wrong legends printed...  Massdrop was blamed for not checking more thoroughly.
According to MD, there were 5.5k people in the drop.  I don't think MD has ever done a keycap drop anywhere near that scale, and it's uncertain I believe whether or not SP pre-sorted packs in shipment.

[intelli78]

Okay... well...
I am not aware of GMK ever having quality control issues. Even if they did... I don't see how having Massdrop involved would limit our bargaining power any more than me by myself. It would probably be the opposite, actually.

Edit: Trizkut, thanks for the additional info. So it sounds like it wasn't all SP's fault. Well, as for legends, you all will be approving them here on GH. Yes I guess Massdrop could cause problems in the sorting or shipping phase.

[SpAmRaY]

Okay... well...
I am not aware of GMK ever having quality control issues. Even if they did... I don't see how having Massdrop involved would limit our bargaining power any more than me by myself. It would probably be the opposite, actually.

More than likely you might run into a legend issue if anything.

Also you can have GMK sort these.

Personally I've had mixed experiences with Massdrops customer service in resolving problems.

[intelli78]

More than likely you might run into a legend issue if anything.

Also you can have GMK sort these also.

That won't happen. We will finalize the render here on GH and that's what the order will be for. If we use Massdrop, I will stay in contact with Christoph at GMK throughout the process.

Yes, ideally we will have GMK sort them, unless it is massively cheaper for Massdrop to do it (which I doubt). We can cross that bridge when we come to it.

Looking at the way GMK GBs are going lately, I think we need MD regardless of the fulfillment issue.

[taylordcraig]

More than likely you might run into a legend issue if anything.

Also you can have GMK sort these also.

That won't happen. We will finalize the render here on GH and that's what the order will be for. If we use Massdrop, I will stay in contact with Christoph at GMK throughout the process.

Yes, ideally we will have GMK sort them, unless it is massively cheaper for Massdrop to do it (which I doubt). We can cross that bridge when we come to it.

Looking at the way GMK GBs are going lately, I think we need MD regardless of the fulfillment issue.

You're absolutely right. MD would be the perfect way to sell this set. So many people will see it as a premium set, and we could have a FIRST EVER, ONCE IN A LIFETIME thingy in the description.
I vote teal legends and I'd buy two, the blue legends scare me a little too much, I'm not sure if it would be too contrasty and just look better samey; REALLY NERVOUS.