[IC] LCARS keyboard set - GB LIVE!!!

[norbauer]

Moz, I was thinking: if you do the logo set add-on, I wonder if you could maybe organize it as a separate group buy, and keep these sets generic?

The reason I ask isn't just the logistics, but I was thinking that if this project didn't have any copyright/trademark-infringing components, it would be much easier to publicize on the web via bloggers, people on Twitter, etc (and thus hopefully to get people to sign up for it, including people who might not yet know about Geekhack). We might even be able to get Mike Okuda himself (the designer of LCARS) to tweet about it. He is very approachable and friendly.

But nobody prominent is going to want to link to (and seemingly support) something that looks like it is going to be killed by a cease-and-desist letter from Paramount—being fan-made or not-for-profit is no exception.

Maybe you would prefer to keep this small and within the existing Geekhack community, in which case the above may not be a concern. But there are a lot of TNG fans out there, and a lot of them are gamers/nerds (i.e., people who would like mechanical keyboards), so it might not hurt to try to bring in people from a wider audience, including possibly existing Geekhack members who just don't log in very often but who might hear about the project via Trek blogs, etc. I personally know a number of TNG fans who are also programmers who would probably buy an MX keyboard just to have and use this keyset!

Anyway, just a thought. 

That just makes too much sense, you know!

It would be good to have them as two separate GB, however I think it would be a good idea to have them in parallel.

So what legends need changing? I think there are 6 keys: SF logo (WIN Key), UFP (MENU key), and the 4 extras (Romulan, Klingon, Borg emblems and Enterprise-D).

Suggestions for legends?

Parallel sounds good to me. There is something along similar lines with an ISO add-on to the Dolch replica set. These were two roughly parallel (I think) group buys, with one supplementing the other and meant to go together into one final keyset.

The six keys you mentioned are the only ones that would be problematic, yes. Maybe replace the two Win keys with "Geek" and "Hack", or if you wanted to go for a pun you could put "AIRLOCKS" on the two "Windows" keys.

 For the four top-right buttons maybe "Alpha", "Beta", "Delta", and "Gamma", from the original tricorder designs?

I would also personally change "SUBMIT" to "ENGAGE" on the return key.

People would also probably want a single E-row "GEEKHACK" key in the LCARS font, to be included in both the blank and legended sets. We could include this and/or the "Eject Core" key as novelty caps to supplement the blank set for people wanting to mix things up a bit.

[Dansor]

Honestly, if we're not using Trek iconography, I have trouble thinking of anything that would look better than WIN and MENU in the same font as the rest of the keys, or the standard icons for those keys.

However, just to throw stuff against the wall to see what sticks, bearing in mind that this would have to be a low resolution image, I'm thinking:
- A planet, though it could just wind up looking like a circle .  You'd need rings to make it look like anything.
- A stylized galaxy/planet/solar system icon. 

A few references images
    - http://rocketdock.com/addon/icons/44869
    - http://www.iconarchive.com/show/solar-system-icons-by-dan-wiersma/Saturn-icon.html
    - http://www.iconarchive.com/show/space-icons-by-aha-soft/solar-system-icon.html

That Saturn icon really makes me think of my old-school space-themed Lego dudes.
http://www.feistees.com/lego-space-t-shirt/

Actaully, that could be a really cool icon.  I mean, something almost, but not exactly, the same as that

[Dansor]

Alternately, it's possible that something as simple as a profile line drawing of the enterprise profile could be non-specific enough to not cause a hoopla, hub-bub, or other nonsense H-words.  Of course, I'll trust others' level of risk-aversion on this.

In agreement with a couple of posts up, if Enter does not say Engage, I will be deeply, deeply, saddened.
Like how Data felt when Tasha Yar got killed by the oil monster.

So sad... so... human...

 

[norbauer]

Honestly, if we're not using Trek iconography, I have trouble thinking of anything that would look better than WIN and MENU in the same font as the rest of the keys, or the standard icons for those keys.

Ooh, that reminds me! The new Windows 8 style UI theming is actually very flat and LCARS-like, as many tech bloggers have remarked. I think it would actually be really cool if we just used the new Win8 logo.

They did this with the Raindrop set, and I think it looks awesome.



We might want to offer a variant for Mac users though (which Raindrop also did).

[Artichoke]

I like the idea of the windows 8 logo, it does fit the theme well I agree.

So would there would be two entirely separate sets of keys if this goes ahead, one blank and one with legends? I like the concept of that, but getting enough support behind this to hit the lower price tiers (thinking 50 or 75+ tier) for both sets might be hard if we are splitting everyone interested between the two.

[norbauer]

I like the idea of the windows 8 logo, it does fit the theme well I agree.

So would there would be two entirely separate sets of keys if this goes ahead, one blank and one with legends? I like the concept of that, but getting enough support behind this to hit the lower price tiers (thinking 50 or 75+ tier) for both sets might be hard if we are splitting everyone interested between the two.

Heh. Well, if it were up to me, we'd only be doing the blank set. But this is really Moz's project, so I'll happily defer to him.

I think what is being proposed, however, is actually three sets: blank, legended, and an after-market modifier add-on set with logos via imsto.

[MOZ]

I really don't think there would be enough members for a blank set as there would be for a legend set, the reason is that most member still prefer to have legends, which is evident by the numerous GBs we have had in the part, and thus don't believe the orders would be split up, since those that didn't want legends, would never have ordered, and those that wanted blanks, would have have anyways ordered blanks and will still do. Infact I think we could hit better number with members getting both.


The add-on with the logos is a totally different scenario altogether and maybe considered and will most likely not be a set, I would provide them with a couple of options. However if possible please continue discussion on them in this thread as the final goal is to be able to have a good set of blank/legends with emblems in matching colors and theme.


I like the idea of the win key and a planet key

[norbauer]

I really don't think there would be enough members for a blank set as there would be for a legend set, the reason is that most member still prefer to have legends, which is evident by the numerous GBs we have had in the part, and thus don't believe the orders would be split up, since those that didn't want legends, would never have ordered, and those that wanted blanks, would have have anyways ordered blanks and will still do. Infact I think we could hit better number with members getting both.

True. It certainly never hurts to offer both in the GB. If we don't hit a MOQ for either, then we just won't have that set made.

Artichoke may be right that it means that for each individual set maybe we won't hit the lower price tiers, but I don't see that as important as helping people get what they want, especially if it turns out that the legend set is actually the more popular option.

Surely every GB has gone through this in the past. It's a trade-off, surely, but probably more community-spirited to offer choice over cheapness. This is Wallethack, after all. It is to be expected.

[g0g0]

Please make this happen. Can't decide which one I want though 

[norbauer]

FWIW I just posted the mock-up on Facebook and several people (Star Trek fan friends) have already contacted me to say they're interested and would buy into this, even though they're not GeekHack members—whether by signing up for a GeekHack account and joining, or asking me to proxy for them.

Anyway, I think once we get the details nailed down, it will be easy to drum up interest and get folks interested in participating, both from within and beyond the GH membership and into the broader Trek nerd community. In some cases, we may just have to explain to them what a mechanical keyboard is and why they'd want one just to have something to put a cool LCARS keyset on. I have already had one such success today.

[MOZ]

Make every Star Trek nerd a MK nerd! That is our ulterior motive


Let's get the legends ready and some more mockups. And roll this thing out.

[Thimplum]

Based on this keyboard here: http://cptrick.deviantart.com/art/LCARS-keyboard-98329154


Here is a mockup of the standard layout based on that color scheme. Since the real attraction of this set would be the legends, thus we need to get them dyesubbed, otherwise ABS DS from SP would have been a solid choice (Which is still a possibility if people want the color scheme).

Show Image

I asked IMSTO if he can do Dyesub on SP SA/DSA caps, he said he can. I think either SA/DSA would look good, not too sure about DCS, anyone know if SP does PBT SA? I know they do ABS, but those can't be dyesubbed. I will ask QWERkeys as well if they can do UV printing on ABS/PBT SA/DSA caps.

So help me here:
1. ABS? PBT?
2. SA? DSA? DCS?
3. UV Printed? Dye subbed? Double-shot?
4. And the biggest question, legends, what sort of legends would you like?

1) ABS. I don't really like the feel of PBT.
2) I haven't tried any of those yet.
3) Blank? haha!
4) see above

[Sid]

OK, based on comments from Divito and Moz, I have added a modifier set that greatly increases one's flexibility with this set and only requires adding a few extra keys (and no additional colors). This could be an optional add-on to a base 104-key.

I gave a few examples, but the possible permutations are many. (Commander Data could tell us precisely how many if here were here, no doubt.)

[Updated image to reduce clutter.]

Kirk: Come on. Spock, why didn't you jump in?
Spock: I was trying to comprehend the meaning of the words.
McCoy: It's a blank keyboard, you green-blooded...Vulcan. You type on it. The words aren't important. What's important is that you have a good time typing on it.
Spock: Oh, I am sorry, Doctor. Were we having a good time?
McCoy: God, I liked him better before he died.

Seriously thought, this has to be made. Love the extra keys for WASD.

[Elrick]

FWIW I just posted the mock-up on Facebook and several people (Star Trek fan friends) have already contacted me to say they're interested and would buy into this, even though they're not GeekHack members—whether by signing up for a GeekHack account and joining, or asking me to proxy for them.

I think there are more Trekkie fans out there than the entire Geekhack membership right here.  Hence a fully LCARS style key-set would be very welcomed by all, including me.

Couldn't care how it's made or the colours used but having some logo's included from STNG would be so cool to own  .  Please don't shelve this as being too hard or difficult because the fans out there demand to have this finally done.  Make it so.

[bahamot]

Yeah this Star Trek keycaps is too awesome to get cancel. Please make it happened! And PBT dye sub please.

[norbauer]

Kirk: Come on. Spock, why didn't you jump in?
Spock: I was trying to comprehend the meaning of the words.
McCoy: It's a blank keyboard, you green-blooded...Vulcan. You type on it. The words aren't important. What's important is that you have a good time typing on it.
Spock: Oh, I am sorry, Doctor. Were we having a good time?
McCoy: God, I liked him better before he died.

Ha. I love it, Sid!

[norbauer]

Yeah this Star Trek keycaps is too awesome to get cancel. Please make it happened! And PBT dye sub please.

FWIW I just posted the mock-up on Facebook and several people (Star Trek fan friends) have already contacted me to say they're interested and would buy into this, even though they're not GeekHack members—whether by signing up for a GeekHack account and joining, or asking me to proxy for them.

I think there are more Trekkie fans out there than the entire Geekhack membership right here.  Hence a fully LCARS style key-set would be very welcomed by all, including me.

Couldn't care how it's made or the colours used but having some logo's included from STNG would be so cool to own  .  Please don't shelve this as being too hard or difficult because the fans out there demand to have this finally done.  Make it so.

Seriously thought, this has to be made. Love the extra keys for WASD.

This is all awesome! Glad to see this is getting some traction.

Let's get the legends ready and some more mockups. And roll this thing out.

Excellent. I'm just headed to bed now (3am Boston time), but when I get up tomorrow I'll go back and comb through all the comments for legends and otherwise in this thread and try to come up with a single unified consensus mock-up. I'll post here as soon as I do. I also just sent the two existing mock ups (blanks and legends) to a professional graphic designer friend for his input and suggestions. So hopefully within the next 24 hours we should have some pretty solid mock-ups. Then you can figure out how to actually make it happen. Happy to help in whatever way(s) I can.

Also, I ordered the color rings! Hopefully they'll arrive this week and we can finalize the colors using them (will post photos of all the colors together).

[MOZ]

I'm so excited for this.

[Elrick]

I'm so excited for this.

"Ditto"  .  Can't wait to see this happen soon.

[MOZ]

I would like to think that maybe we can collect enough money to get ABS DS, it is $45 per legend. For a full keyboard without the logos, we are looking at something like 110 keys (Some novelty extras_

110*45 = 4680

Now if we reach 200 orders for a base set, that is $23.4 extra.

A set like this would be priced around $65, now add the extra and it should reach $90, which I think is still alright considering the uniqueness of the set. And maybe we can also do some fund raising.

[Dansor]

Perhaps we could add an option on the order form to donate extra to cover some of this optional stuff?
I know I'd be willing to pay a bit extra if it means I can act out my TNG FanFic.

[MOZ]

Perhaps we could add an option on the order form to donate extra to cover some of this optional stuff?
I know I'd be willing to pay a bit extra if it means I can act out my TNG FanFic.

What extra costs? Besides what would come in each persons share based on total number of orders for the legends?

[Dansor]

Sorry, I wasn't clear.  I meant in relation to:

...
A set like this would be priced around $65, now add the extra and it should reach $90, which I think is still alright considering the uniqueness of the set. And maybe we can also do some fund raising.

I would be happy to contribute, and we could maybe include the fund raising as part of the order process. 
Just thinking...

I want this

[MOZ]

We would need to raise funds BEFORE the GB, since the total amount needed for extra legends is fixed.

OR have it incorporated in the price in the GB, and account for 10% dropout and still give the option to allow members to donate extra, thus reducing the share in each order.

This would be awesome.

[norbauer]

I would like to think that maybe we can collect enough money to get ABS DS, it is $45 per legend. For a full keyboard without the logos, we are looking at something like 110 keys (Some novelty extras_

So are you saying it might be possible to do ABS DS for the legend keyset and PBT for the blanks? If so, that would be amazing. It would just mean having slightly different colors for each set, with the legends set having less well-matched colors to the original TNG palette but with much better legends than if they were dyesub. I think the crispness of double-shot matches the sleek, modern LCARS designs much better anyway.

The reason I prefer the PBT for the blanks is because that material offers much more suitable colors for this particular project—at least in terms the limited colors SP offers in each material—but I think color  matters much more on the blank set. For the legends set, what matters most is using the material that provides the best legends, and that is obviously ABS.

If we intentionally picked a different set of colors for the legends set and did it in ABS DS, we could actually offer a really interesting variety within a single project: ABS DS in slightly more saturated colors, and PBT blanks in more muted colors. There is something there to suit almost everybody's tastes! The Best of Both Worlds, as it were.

I like it. The only reason I never proposed this two-pronged approach was because I assumed that doing everything in the same material would save money, but that may not actually prove to be the case, or the difference may be minimal.

Moz: can you confirm that my understanding of all the above is correct?

I ordered the SP color rings last night, by the way, and they are in the mail today on their way to me! Maybe I can find some ABS colors that work well together. I'm holding out hope that the ABS colors will look better in person. (What SP offers in ABS seems heavily weighted towards grays and beiges.)

Moz: Would you like me to put together a new dual mock-up: one of the legends set in the best-match ABS colors, and the existing blanks mock-up with the (slightly better) PBT colors? I'm going to go try to figure out all the add-on modifier stuff right now by going back through the thread.

[MOZ]

I would like a quad mockup of ABS and PBT with and without legends.

Because if we get new legends made, we can get ABS and PBT blank and with legends.

So yeah, a quad mockup. Since you would like to assist in setting this up, maybe we can do a kickstarter for the legend funds?

And due to the design and color scheme, this set would look good with a shiny gloss finish board like the popular BWU/Das. Win! Win!

[CPTBadAss]

I know the colors would look nice but a mix of keycaps materials might cause people to not want to buy it. Just a heads up. For me when I buy a set, I look for material of the keycaps before the looks since how the caps feel matter to me more than how they look.

[MOZ]

I know the colors would look nice but a mix of keycaps materials might cause people to not want to buy it. Just a heads up. For me when I buy a set, I look for material of the keycaps before the looks since how the caps feel matter to me more than how they look.

This. That is why I want to see which ABS or PBT looks best with/without legends.

If we do the GB, I would like to have only one material. This adds to the aesthetics as well, since it will allow users to mix and match as well.

[bahamot]

Dunno man, maybe won't join for ABS DS. But definitely will join for PBT dye sub.

[CPTBadAss]

Dunno man, maybe won't join for ABS DS. But definitely will join for PBT dye sub.

I wouldn't join for PBT Dye Sub. Going to be hard to please everyone

[MOZ]

Can't please everyone.

[MOZ]

We'll do a poll, once the color scheme and legends are worked out.

I will create mockups for various layouts and you can then choose.

[norbauer]

I know the colors would look nice but a mix of keycaps materials might cause people to not want to buy it. Just a heads up. For me when I buy a set, I look for material of the keycaps before the looks since how the caps feel matter to me more than how they look.

I think you have maybe misunderstood what I was proposing. What I was proposing was not mixing materials within a set, but rather offering two separate sets: 1) blank all-PBT with more accurate/muted colors and 2) legends in ABS doubleshot using the slightly less suitable color palette available in ABS. This way if people need legends, they can have them and nice doubleshots, but at the cost of slightly less TNG-accurate colors (which so many people in this thread have been cheering on). If people don't mind passing on legends and going for blanks, then they'd get the more screen-accurate colors.

Anyway, I'm agnostic between dysub and DS for the legends set (even though I think DS generally has crisper legends). And I'll be happy to do the quad mockup, but I personally don't think blank ABS makes any sense: you would get the more limited and worse-matched color palette and no particular benefit.

I'm just making sure you and Moz understood what I was proposing, and trying to understand your objections.

[CPTBadAss]

Ah yeah. I did misunderstand then. The way I read your post, I thought I saw ABS alphas and PBT mods. Thanks for the clarification.

And I would prefer blank ABS to blank PBT. I just like the feel of ABS better.

[Glod]

I modified the first mockup just to follow the reference.

New mockup, hanks to the expertise of Norbauer.

Show Image

I've made.


I think we should do DSA profile in PBT, blank and legends, we can get the legends done from SP itself and the licensed ones from IMSTO.

love it

[norbauer]

OK, so I just made a quick mock-up of the two color schemes. I tried my best to match the theme and feel from the PBT set, but again the ABS colors are very limited from SP in the area of the color space where we are working (for some reason SP focuses mainly on Grays and Beiges in ABS).

I personally find the ABS color scheme too harsh and saturated (the pink color in particular is way too pink; it should be more of an orangey-salmon—and there was no better option that I could find). Frankly, I wouldn't buy a blanks version of the ABS color scheme myself.

Again, to clarify from my prior post, I think my personal preferred plan, which would offer everyone the fullest spectrum of variety (without making four sets!), would be this:

• Blanks in the PBT color scheme
• Doubleshot legends in the ABS color scheme

Though I only feel strongly about the first item on that list.

I look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts.

I'll work on legends mock-ups soon with these colors shortly.

[MOZ]

OK, so I just made a quick mock-up of the two color schemes. I tried my best to match the theme and feel from the PBT set, but again the ABS colors are very limited from SP in the area of the color space where we are working (for some reason SP focuses mainly on Grays and Beiges in ABS).

I personally find the ABS color scheme too harsh and saturated (the pink color in particular is way too pink; it should be more of an orangey-salmon—and there was no better option that I could find). Frankly, I wouldn't buy a blanks version of the ABS color scheme myself.

Again, to clarify from the above, I think my personal preferred plan, which would offer everyone the fullest spectrum of variety (without making four sets!), would be this:

• Blanks in the PBT color scheme
• Doubleshot legends in the ABS color scheme

Though I only feel strongly about the first item on that list.

I look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts.

I'll work on legends mock-ups soon with these colors shortly.

Did you receive the color rings or is this based on what's available online?

[Dansor]

Nice job on the mock-ups.
Really, I like both and think either would be spectacular.

[norbauer]

Did you receive the color rings or is this based on what's available online?

This is just digital color sampling (using 11x11 averaging with the eyedropper tool in Photoshop), based on what is available on the SP website and the thread that CPT linked to earlier.

I am totally leaving room for feeling completely differently with the rings arrive and we can compare the colors actually next to each other in a normalized lighting environment.

[MOZ]

Tried these matches yet?
PBT -- ABS
BFE -- BFM/BFO
BFD -- BO
RCA - RCJ
ORY -TEA

[norbauer]

Tried these matches yet?
PBT -- ABS
BFE -- BFM/BFO
BFD -- BO
RCA - RCJ
ORY -TEA

I actually tried these all these in the mock-up and vacillated a lot. Here was my final thinking:

BFM I was afraid that would look too much like plain white (one color you almost never see in LCARS designs), but I'll verify this in person on the rings.
BFO was a good second-choice option. I went with BFJ instead because it is closer to several of the button graphics I posted in my color-reference screenshot post from yesterday.
BO is just really dark. Seems like it would obscure the legends, and again is slightly at odds with my screenshots post yesterday about the muted color palette. I'm using the fairly close BOH, though, for the darker blue accent keys.
TEA is very reminiscent of colors used on the bridge equipment, but not in LCARS displays themselves. This would make an excellent color for a keyboard case using the LCARS keyset!
RCJ. This was a tough one. A light pastel purple is actually a very common color in LCARS graphics, and I wanted to use this. However, something about it just looks wrong when paired with the other plausible colors. I can't quite put my finger on it. I think maybe it's because, paired with all the other colors, it makes the overall color palette too cold. It leaves the yellow as the only warm color temperature selection in the set.

[MOZ]

We should wait for the rings to reach you for a better understanding.

[norbauer]

We should wait for the rings to reach you for a better understanding.

Agreed. I'm resisting the temptation to form too strong an opinion yet until I see them in person.

They shipped to me here in Boston from Washington state, so I hope to have them by Saturday, or Monday at the latest.

[norbauer]

Some more muted-color LCARS reference shots from the blu-ray episode I was watching last night.


This one of the PADD is, I think, a particularly good match for the PBT colors (at least taken from the digital samples).

[MOZ]

(Attachment Link)

Too close bro!

[norbauer]

OK, so I went back to some of the original Sternbach production memos and the Okuda mock-ups from the TNG technical manual published by Pocket Books back in the 80s and I came up with what is (I think) a set of legends that is very accurate to the original LCARS spirit, building on and playing off of Moz's original draft.

There was one correction that I thought was particularly important for accuracy: small lettering always top-bottom aligned to the one side large color bands is very characteristic of LCARS. Black lettering was almost never center-aligned in LCARS. It also makes this set much more subtle and classy set, IMO, more in keeping with the original aesthetic of the show.

I have also mocked up some potential keyset breakdowns.

Bear in the mind the color suggestions are still tentative until I can verify them with the SP color rings (which are in the mail!)

Looking forward to hearing what everyone thinks!

Here is a general low-res image to give you the feel of the three sets


Here is a hi-res detail on the ABS legends set


Here is the PBT dyesub with legends


Here is a potential keysets breakdown for the legends sets


And one for blanks


The idea from the NumPad is obviously to invoke the common LCARS graphical trope:

[MOZ]

Dat numpa.


Seriously though you've taken the idea to a whole new level.

[norbauer]

Dat numpa.


Seriously though you've taken the idea to a whole new level.

Thanks, Moz! I also just updated my last post to include a legended version for dyesub in the PBT colors.

[Elrick]

I would like to think that maybe we can collect enough money to get ABS DS, it is $45 per legend.

ABS is tolerable, I would be glad for it to be done, as long as we get the legends no matter what  .

[norbauer]

I would like to think that maybe we can collect enough money to get ABS DS, it is $45 per legend.

ABS is tolerable, I would be glad for it to be done, as long as we get the legends no matter what  .

Yeah, now that I have experimented with the legends a bit, I'm actually in favor of a legended set myself (though I'll probably also get a set of blanks). My vote would probably be for PBT Dyesub for the legended set, if only because the color selection in ABS from SP is so lousy. Otherwise, I like the crisp edges of doubleshot. But oh god those colors. :S Maybe I'll feel differently when I see the sample color ring, but I doubt it.

FWIW, I think dyesub would also make the whole after-market illicit imsto logo thing much easier, for those who wanted to go that route.