Author Topic: [IC] LCARS keyboard set - GB LIVE!!!  (Read 126916 times)

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Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #200 on: Sat, 28 September 2013, 12:32:49 »
How are SP's DSA PBT caps? I've got some of their ABS caps and am THOROUGHLY unimpressed. To the point where I would probably be out of this GB if that's what we went with. I'm still hesitant with PBT as well, as I can't imagine they'll be that much different.

SA keycaps just have substance like DSA specifically doesn't. They're thin, and just sound hollow typing on them.

Are their PBT caps any better?

Didn't SP make the DS ABS DSA Retro set? I can't speak to the feel, but it seems to have been wildly popular.

Offline Glod

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #201 on: Sat, 28 September 2013, 13:22:05 »
SP DSA would be perfect for this, though i only like DSA on normal keyboards and not my ergodox. SP DSA dont feel thin in my opinion.

SA would look too retro for a LCARS set.

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #202 on: Sat, 28 September 2013, 22:03:26 »
Latest round of mock-ups—the full set of four this time—with color based on in-person matching with actual Signature Plastics color rings (matching, that is, to each other, to original screenshots, and to my original LCARS backlit graphic from the production set), as best as I was able given the limited palettes available in the two materials.

Comments/suggestions welcome. :)
« Last Edit: Sun, 29 September 2013, 00:41:53 by norbauer »

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #203 on: Sun, 29 September 2013, 00:50:15 »
FWIW, after seeing the color rings IRL, I think both materials have color matches that are about equally good, all things considered. The PBT set has the best color matching for all the colors except for the yellow/orange. ABS has the better yellow/orange but slightly worse matches in the other colors. Since the yellow/orange is rather more important than any of the other colors, I'd say it's basically a wash—or that ABS comes out slightly ahead, since it also means crisper legends.

To describe the issue with the PBT orange/yellow more precisely, the best and only suitable color for that role within the PBT palette is a very light/pastel orange, almost like an orange sorbet or Creamsicle.

It is more orange and pastel than the traditional LCARS yellow (which should actually be somewhat orange), and it just doesn't look like anything we ever really see as part of an LCARS interface.

But as I say, in similar ways, the other colors for PBT are better matches for their own respective positions.

Anyway, hopefully my mock-ups and the pictures in them will give you some sense of the difference, but it's a little hard to convey virtually.

Maybe it would be a good strategy simply to make your choice based on which material you prefer for its inherent properties (legend crispness, feel, sound, etc.). Because I think either one of these color sets is going to make for an amazing LCARS-themed production.

Looking forward to hearing other people's thoughts. Hopefully we'll be able to start voting on these soon.

[updated to add clarifications, and added a pic for illustration]
« Last Edit: Sun, 29 September 2013, 05:01:11 by norbauer »

Offline vierax

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #204 on: Sun, 29 September 2013, 01:02:15 »
wow Norb, that's so great !

The only thing I dislike is the red escape which looks too vermilion to me in the neighbourhood of the other colours. Maybe something more magenta is a better compromise between the quiet ambiance and the emergency command of the key.

Quote
And all of the pure yellows in the PBT palette are too harsh and look like French's mustard
You mean the fluorescent one with turmeric, not the Dijon's ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustard_%28condiment%29

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #205 on: Sun, 29 September 2013, 01:38:27 »
wow Norb, that's so great !

 ;D

The only thing I dislike is the red escape which looks too vermilion to me in the neighbourhood of the other colours. Maybe something more magenta is a better compromise between the quiet ambiance and the emergency command of the key.

I kind of agree. The reason I chose it is because it is actually color-matched to one of the colors in my original TNG graphic from the set. (I keep meaning to post a pic.) I also wanted something slightly muted to match the rest of the set rather than a loud primary-color red. Otherwise, it would draw attention from the rest of the colors, or so I felt anyway.

This is probably an irrelevant concern, however. As Moz pointed out, we are probably a little high on colors as it is right now, so cutting down on them may be necessary cut costs to a price that people would actually be willing to pay—and the red Esc would seem to be the first color on the chopping block. I don't know much about the economics of GBs, so I'll defer to him on that matter.

Quote
And all of the pure yellows in the PBT palette are too harsh and look like French's mustard
You mean the fluorescent one with turmeric, not the Dijon's ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustard_%28condiment%29

Quite correct. Je n'ai pas voulu décrire la moutarde Française quand j'ai écrit « French's ». Ironiquement, il y une moutarde qui existe aux Etats-Unis sous la marque « French's », qui est en fait composée de curcuma. Moi, je prefere celle de Dijon. ;)

Pardon, if you will, my French. lol
« Last Edit: Sun, 29 September 2013, 01:40:06 by norbauer »

Offline vierax

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #206 on: Sun, 29 September 2013, 04:06:09 »

This is probably an irrelevant concern, however. As Moz pointed out, we are probably a little high on colors as it is right now, so cutting down on them may be necessary cut costs to a price that people would actually be willing to pay—and the red Esc would seem to be the first color on the chopping block. I don't know much about the economics of GBs, so I'll defer to him on that matter.
yeah, I read it but my subconscious reach of (almost) perfection has spoken :)

Quote
Quote
And all of the pure yellows in the PBT palette are too harsh and look like French's mustard
You mean the fluorescent one with turmeric, not the Dijon's ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustard_%28condiment%29

Quite correct. Je n'ai pas voulu décrire la moutarde Française quand j'ai écrit « French's ». Ironiquement, il y une moutarde qui existe aux Etats-Unis sous la marque « French's », qui est en fait composée de curcuma. Moi, je prefere celle de Dijon. ;)

Pardon, if you will, my French. lol
Your French is excellent, way better written than a lot of French citizens does and than my poor English skill  :-[
« Last Edit: Sun, 29 September 2013, 04:08:23 by vierax »

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #207 on: Sun, 29 September 2013, 04:55:40 »
I was just watching the episode "The Mind's Eye" tonight and ran across some great LCARS shots, which I thought I'd share. They make me feel even better about the color choices/matches in my previous post with the latest mock-ups. :)

Until I started this project I never realized how much pink, purple, salmon, and other such colors were prevalent throughout the TNG sets. I like it.

Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #208 on: Sun, 29 September 2013, 07:57:49 »
This is excellent. Now do me an Ergodox mockup as well. I will then start a poll and start getting pricing from SP?

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #209 on: Sun, 29 September 2013, 11:19:56 »
This is excellent. Now do me an Ergodox mockup as well. I will then start a poll and start getting pricing from SP?

will do. legends,blanks, or both?

Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #210 on: Sun, 29 September 2013, 12:15:29 »
This is excellent. Now do me an Ergodox mockup as well. I will then start a poll and start getting pricing from SP?

will do. legends,blanks, or both?

Both

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #211 on: Sun, 29 September 2013, 18:05:36 »
This is excellent. Now do me an Ergodox mockup as well. I will then start a poll and start getting pricing from SP?

will do. legends,blanks, or both?

Both

Hey Moz. I looked in your CAD thread but can't find an Ergodox vector/dwg file with legends like the one you originally posted for the normal ANSI layout. If you have those can you post it here or PM it to me?

Thanks!

Offline crazee64

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #212 on: Sun, 29 September 2013, 18:11:43 »
I love what you've done with the asymmetry of the colours. I like the PBT mockups best - they just have a more inviting feel, seems more in keeping with the intent of LCARS. I also prefer the feel of PBT so that's a bonus.

Now we just need someone to manufacture PBT double shots for us  ;D
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Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #213 on: Sun, 29 September 2013, 18:14:45 »
I think SP does PBT DS DSA, I might might wrong.

Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #214 on: Sun, 29 September 2013, 18:15:25 »

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #215 on: Sun, 29 September 2013, 18:46:34 »
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gskvuhild4f0w1s/keylayouts.dwg

Here you go

Thanks, Moz. But the Ergodox layouts in that file all seem to be missing the legends. Am I missing something?

Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #216 on: Sun, 29 September 2013, 19:04:37 »
You only need the alphas, and since you had/changed them, I don't have them as a layout :/

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #217 on: Sun, 29 September 2013, 23:16:12 »
You only need the alphas, and since you had/changed them, I don't have them as a layout :/

Oh, sorry. Ergodox is a foreign world to me! ;) I can take care of that then. I just wasn't sure what all the modifier keys were, but I'll just leave all those blank.

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #218 on: Sun, 29 September 2013, 23:35:25 »
You only need the alphas, and since you had/changed them, I don't have them as a layout :/

Oh, sorry. Ergodox is a foreign world to me! ;) I can take care of that then. I just wasn't sure what all the modifier keys were, but I'll just leave all those blank.

So, just to clarify, I'll basically be making something that looks like this (for the legends sets):

Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #219 on: Mon, 30 September 2013, 00:25:33 »
Yeah, those are the only legends we need.

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #220 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 02:31:42 »
OK, these are all the new sets including Ergodox. I'll do some cleaning up of the final mock-up once we select what is actually going to be made.

Actually having the swatches in hand—and having deliberated on this for a couple of days and shown it in person to some other TNG fans—I think my personal endorsement is ultimately for the ABS set. I think the most important thing for this set is good color-matching, and overall I think ABS offers the best set for this particular project. The fatal flaw in the PBT set is, IMO, the yellow/orange, which (based on how it looks in person), is frankly, all wrong.

I know some people feel strongly about the materials themselves, and I myself tend to prefer PBT. But given that we're talking about doubleshot, I'm agnostic on that point (I hate thin ABS, but I'm told that doubleshot mitigates the normal high pitched sound of ABS by making the keys twice as thick).

ABS Doubleshot also means we'll not only have crisper legends, but that the legend colors for the helm nav wheel region (where, rather than black legends, I use key colors from other parts of the set) will exactly match the other colors because the legends will actually be made of the same plastic, whereas any dyesub will never exactly match with the plastics colors.

At any rate, I look forward to moving forward with voting ASAP and seeing what other people think.
« Last Edit: Tue, 01 October 2013, 02:38:43 by norbauer »

Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #221 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 02:39:28 »
Those look great! I'll have a poll up soon.

Offline BakerMan1971

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #222 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 07:00:04 »
+1 interest :)

Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #223 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 07:47:00 »
Thanks for all the hard work norbauer! Truly awesome stuff. I can't wait to get my hands on the color approved ABS doubleshot set.

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Offline AlexJP

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #225 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 12:43:59 »
37426-037426-1
I modified the first mockup just to follow the reference.

Yes! this one please
and SA profile
PBT
« Last Edit: Tue, 01 October 2013, 12:51:03 by AlexJP »

Offline AlexJP

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #226 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 12:54:33 »
please add this one...
: /

Offline Dansor

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #227 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 12:59:59 »
Beautiful work so far Norbauer  :thumb:

Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #228 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 13:04:42 »
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
I modified the first mockup just to follow the reference.

Yes! this one please
and SA profile
PBT


Albeit the color scheme would look really good in SA PBT, it is essentially very similar to Yolch, however it doesn't follow the LCARS theme, and hence was not taken forward.

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #229 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 13:15:20 »
Thanks for all the hard work norbauer! Truly awesome stuff. I can't wait to get my hands on the color approved ABS doubleshot set.

Welcome to geekhack Lt.J.G.AstroPhysicist! And thanks for voting. (Also what are you doing dawdling here in this thread?! Cmdr. LaForge is still waiting in engineering for that statistical analysis.)

Poll is up: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1tR0EEzZUPdmYVlYieoIwpxYbuAE7UFhE20NlVgqCXG8/viewform

Moz: Awesome. Thanks! Would you mind updating the OP thread topic to add "VOTING NOW," or something similar, at the end?

Offline Glod

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set - TAKING VOTES
« Reply #230 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 16:05:33 »
voted. i honestly would prefer the dyesub but ill do doubleshot as well.

the ergodox color scheme looooookkks gooood, i hope the interest grows enough that it would be possible. i'm not going to join without ergodox.

Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set - TAKING VOTES
« Reply #231 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 16:09:14 »
voted. i honestly would prefer the dyesub but ill do doubleshot as well.

the ergodox color scheme looooookkks gooood, i hope the interest grows enough that it would be possible. i'm not going to join without ergodox.

You do realize that I am going to be running the GB, a fellow ErgoDox staunch, thus alphas or not, there will be an ErgoDox kit :P

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set - TAKING VOTES
« Reply #232 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 16:16:35 »
Voted. Glad to see my choice is the most popular one. :)

Down with yucky PBT. Keyfeel is abhorrent to my fingertips.
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Offline bahamot

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set - TAKING VOTES
« Reply #233 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 20:40:10 »
Voted for PBT dye sub, apparently it's not too popular here  :eek:

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Offline divito

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set - TAKING VOTES
« Reply #234 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 20:53:56 »
Ugh, those responses are so disheartening. Want my blanks :(
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Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set - TAKING VOTES
« Reply #235 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 20:58:14 »
Ugh, those responses are so disheartening. Want my blanks :(

Hmm. I want a blank set too! =\

Where are you seeing the updated results? All I can see is the form itself when I follow Moz's link.

Offline divito

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set - TAKING VOTES
« Reply #236 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 21:25:50 »
Ugh, those responses are so disheartening. Want my blanks :(

Hmm. I want a blank set too! =\

Where are you seeing the updated results? All I can see is the form itself when I follow Moz's link.

The response to thank for submission offers a link to see the results so far. As far as I know, you'd have to do another submission to be able to see it.
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Offline Elrick

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set - TAKING VOTES
« Reply #237 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 21:48:00 »
Just filled out "LCARS (aka Galaxy Class) Keyset Poll" and I didn't think the PBT set would ever get a look in - but alas we can't have everything here on Geekhack.

I hope your Group Buy takes off and helps some Trekkie fans get a little joy put onto their keyboards  :thumb: .

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set - TAKING VOTES
« Reply #238 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 22:56:38 »
Ugh, those responses are so disheartening. Want my blanks :(

Hmm. I want a blank set too! =\

Where are you seeing the updated results? All I can see is the form itself when I follow Moz's link.

The response to thank for submission offers a link to see the results so far. As far as I know, you'd have to do another submission to be able to see it.

Ah, OK. If anyone snags the public link (or if you have it, Moz), maybe they could share it here? I'm curious. :)

Offline CalmB4tehPwn

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set - TAKING VOTES
« Reply #239 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 23:06:04 »
God, I was really hoping to get a set of PBT out of this.

And has DSA been decided, then? Since there's no vote option for profile?
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Offline Elrick

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set - TAKING VOTES
« Reply #240 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 23:08:45 »
God, I was really hoping to get a set of PBT out of this.

And has DSA been decided, then? Since there's no vote option for profile?

I'm with you regarding the PBT manufacture but it looks like the masses want plain old ABS.  Hence ABS they shall get.  Also no info relating to key-cap profile has been mentioned yet.

Offline CalmB4tehPwn

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set - TAKING VOTES
« Reply #241 on: Tue, 01 October 2013, 23:16:40 »
With the ABS DSA SP keycaps I've got, and my displeasure with how they feel, I will not be going in on this if it's ABS -and- DSA. One or the other, I'm all for it, but those particular keycaps make me feel like I need to take a shower.
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Offline do_Og@n

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set - TAKING VOTES
« Reply #242 on: Wed, 02 October 2013, 00:23:17 »
I'm down for this set....if anything just the spacebar would be nice.

Offline stoic-lemon

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set - TAKING VOTES
« Reply #243 on: Wed, 02 October 2013, 01:53:23 »
I'm pretty sure DSA was chosen since the low profile fit better with the theme of the set. Also, people probably chose ABS for the sharp legends and accurate colours. Blank PBT might still be an option?

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set - TAKING VOTES
« Reply #244 on: Wed, 02 October 2013, 04:09:16 »
DSA has been chosen as it suits the theme best.

Offline MOZ

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Offline Elrick

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set - TAKING VOTES
« Reply #246 on: Wed, 02 October 2013, 06:36:38 »
DSA has been chosen as it suits the theme best.

Damn this is starting to look interesting now.  Although PBT is off the books right?

Offline bahamot

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set - TAKING VOTES
« Reply #247 on: Wed, 02 October 2013, 06:42:01 »
Damn this is starting to look interesting now.  Although PBT is off the books right?
Based on the poll result, both DS ABS and PBT dye sub are pretty closed

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Offline Elrick

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set - TAKING VOTES
« Reply #248 on: Wed, 02 October 2013, 06:47:29 »
Based on the poll result, both DS ABS and PBT dye sub are pretty closed

Damn, I wish PBT pulls through because thus far I don't have a full PBT Key-set with dye-sub - which might be the most under-rated one presented thus far on Geekhack.

Only 27 in total bothered to answer the Poll requirements, is there no liking to buy more valued key-sets anymore?  I'm just shocked with the almost dead response from our fellow members here.  I thought there would be at least 60 to 80 responses by now.

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set - TAKING VOTES
« Reply #249 on: Wed, 02 October 2013, 07:20:21 »
Not even worth voting for IMO, the new mockups omitted all the cool symbol keys...

I mean COME ON, a Star Trek themed keyset with no Starfleet emblem?
tp thread is tp thread
Sometimes it's like he accidentally makes a thread instead of a google search.

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