[IC] LCARS keyboard set - GB LIVE!!!

[stoic-lemon]

Yeah, I wish more would vote.

Those insignia keys were left out for copyright reasons.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

I suppose that's for the best... still takes away from this keyset tho...


Random co-worker: "Oh nice keyboard color scheme. Looks like a rainbow."

Me: "It's actually a Star Trek themed keyset, but you wouldn't know unless you're a GeekHack member or a supreme Star Trek fan."

Would be much easier to explain if it had even ONE of them insignia keys...

[stoic-lemon]

I think a lot of people would like them too. I'm sure IMSTO has the means to produce them.

[MOZ]

If you go through the threads, they will be made. So hoorah!

I'll have that as a separate BG, where you can choose the keycap color and the emblem you want on it. Will have a variety of keycap sizes as well.

This would allow you to use those keycaps with these sets, I should have mentioned that earlier, since then I guess we might have had more votes for PBT.

[jdcarpe]

PBT won't buy.

[MOZ]

The other thing, we can do is, UV print on ABS.

Does anyone know any vendor or setup that would be willing ot ignore copyright issues to make DS ABS? Or UV print ABS?

[norbauer]

Yeah, I wish more would vote.

Those insignia keys were left out for copyright reasons.

If and when we have moved onto the GB stage, I'll promote this project more widely among the community of Star Trek fans generally. I plan to make a page explaining what mechanical keyboards are and how you can get set up with one if you are a Trek fan and want an LCARS keyboard. But for now I figure it just makes sense to let the GH membership pick what we make—since we're the ones who actually know the most about key cap materials and manufacturing techniques.

The other thing, we can do is, UV print on ABS.

Does anyone know any vendor or setup that would be willing ot ignore copyright issues to make DS ABS? Or UV print ABS?

FWIW, If ABS is the winner, I would personally favor sticking with doubleshot because for the main keysets because of the superior (crisp) legends created by that process. Maybe for your separate add-on group buy with the logos, you can do UV printing for that? These could be thought of as novelty caps and don't necessarily have to match the core set exactly.

Just a thought.

[MOZ]

I think we should offer LCARS keyboard, so members not of this community can order these keyboards without having to worry about changing keycaps.

Poker 2, CM QFR, Ducky Shine III, we cna do these three for each form factor.

My UV printing idea was for the logos and not the main set.

How long should we let the poll stay open? From initial looks it looks like DS ABS.

If we go this way, we are looking at raising around $5000 for the legends. Ideas on how to go about this?

[norbauer]

I think we should offer LCARS keyboard, so members not of this community can order these keyboards without having to worry about changing keycaps.

Poker 2, CM QFR, Ducky Shine III, we cna do these three for each form factor.

I think that would be a great idea, and it would make the costs work out better, because it would surely bring in more people. We'll have the best luck getting buy-ins if people don't need to have a GeekHack account in order to sign up for the GB, so we should think at the very least about how to make that happen.

If you'd be willing to coordinate the finances and logistics of the pre-made keyboards arrangement, that would certainly make it easier to bring in a lot of outside Star Trek fans via the fan blogs, etc. But it sounds risky/expensive to me to be handling and managing all that hardware.

FWIW, I would think an 80% or 100% would be the easiest to sell to keyboard n00bs (ideally picking whatever can be obtained most inexpensively). Poker introduces a learning curve.

How long should we let the poll stay open? From initial looks it looks like DS ABS.

Totally up to you, but I would agree that it looks like ABS DS by a small margin, so I for one would be comfortable calling that the winner at this point if you are.

That result is actually what I expected, and not just because the color matching is better. Each material has its merits, but historically ABS DS has been a popular choice for GH group buys—perhaps because it seems like the safer bet, less chance of being surprised by legends that don't look like you expected.

If we go this way, we are looking at raising around $5000 for the legends. Ideas on how to go about this?

Hehe. Well, you have a lot more experience at GBs than I do (which is to say: more than none!), so I should defer to you. I just was in charge of making it look pretty. That being said, if you want help with something like putting together an Indiegogo/Kickstarter campaign, I could look into that. The only trouble is that I fear we'd need to register a business in the US in order to do something like that (to handle the bank accounts, liabilities, and so forth.) Maybe someone with an existing corporate entity (TechKeys, etc.?) would be willing to let us organize it through them? Also, how will fulfillment work?

Maybe we could just do something like figure out the minimum number of buy-ins we need to be able to sell a full set (Core + Tenkey, or Ergofox) at a high but reasonable price each (which, to me, would be, say, $100 or so). And then put up a group buy and keep it running until we get the needed number. After we hit that number, we could give latecomers a couple extra weeks to get in before sending the order to SP.

Hmm. Maybe we could approach MassDrop about organizing this for us? I don't know anything about them, but they seem to do a lot of keyboard-related stuff, and they seem to have all the necessary infrastructure already in place. I'm sure they have some kind of profit margin worked into their business model, but I don't think GH members would mind outsourcing logistics and fulfillment to a third party for a small fee.

I guess now is when things actually get hard/complicated. I look forward to seeing and learning what the next steps are. Happy to help in whatever modest ways I can!

[MOZ]

One of the ideas I have had and all members are welcome to add to this and give their suggestion as well is to get the assistance of either MassDrop or MechnicalKeyboards. I would prefer MK, specially since they are in the business already and can hopefully do the "complete LCARS keyboard" as well.

They have the business model setup to deliver complete keyboards as well as sets, besides the whole logistics.

They could either do a MD drop style thing where they get the commitment and charge the user for the actual amount at a later date.

This way they can host the GB on their website and incorporate the costs for the legends into the price of the keycaps/keyboards, while still ahving the option to allow users to donate more towards legends production.

[norbauer]

One of the ideas I have had and all members are welcome to add to this and give their suggestion as well is to get the assistance of either MassDrop or MechnicalKeyboards. I would prefer MK, specially since they are in the business already and can hopefully do the "complete LCARS keyboard" as well.

They have the business model setup to deliver complete keyboards as well as sets, besides the whole logistics.

They could either do a MD drop style thing where they get the commitment and charge the user for the actual amount at a later date.

This way they can host the GB on their website and incorporate the costs for the legends into the price of the keycaps/keyboards, while still ahving the option to allow users to donate more towards legends production.

Working with MK sounds perfect to me. MassDrop has a much better site, but if MK can handle it, I'm all for working with them, especially since they can handle bundling sets together with keyboards.

Why not just roll the legends production costs into the overall price of the first GB? That literally is how much it will cost to get the sets, after all. (No legends, no sets.) The fact that it will make subsequent rounds less expensive shouldn't really matter, right? Hopefully it would be possible to make the tooling/molds belong to the GH community collectively rather than MK specifically. This would be our one concession for GH having created the designs.

[MOZ]

Yes, I thought of including the tooling cost into the sets themselves, and have sent an email to MK.

Let's wait for their reply.

[Glod]

i know MK was willing to help geekhack out but will they do non-ANSI125 layouts like ISO, ANSI150, ergodox, etc? Ergodox wouldn't sell that much...the commando GB was so low on the ergodox that they just ended up doing manual sorting of singles to make it affordable.

[CalmB4tehPwn]

i know MK was willing to help geekhack out but will they do non-ANSI125 layouts like ISO, ANSI150, ergodox, etc? Ergodox wouldn't sell that much...the commando GB was so low on the ergodox that they just ended up doing manual sorting of singles to make it affordable.

But we got 45 ErgoDox orders in the Calm Depths GB. Enough for me to buy 5 extra and push it to the 50 unit price break.

It depends on the keyset, but there are ErgoDox buyers out there, especially for something as fun as this, in a completely flat profile? There'll be buyers, don't go off of Commando numbers.

Can we get some rough estimates? Say, how much it would cost per set to do 100 DS ABS (including legend pricing) vs 100 orders of Dyesub PBT? I know the DS legend pricing is not cheap, rightfully. I can only imagine the process. Split between 100 orders, that's an extra $50 tacked onto each order.

[MOZ]

I'm taking things step by step here, first let me work out a mode of ordering, for something like this, as Norbauer has suggested, we need to look at a broader audience, as there would be buyers outside the GH community, specially with premade "LCARS keyboards".

After this, I will get pricing on the ABS DS and blanks from SP and the Dye-Sub costs from SP and IMSTO, although I think the IMSTO route might be more expensive due to shipping to and fro.

[MOZ]

Right now Dye sub and Double Shot are neck and neck.

[norbauer]

premade "LCARS keyboards".

I hate to be stickler about this, but in the past CBS has taken legal action against parties advertising things as "LCARS" or that too closely resemble the interfaces from the show. (See the Wikipedia article on LCARS under the "legal" section.)

So I think we need to be accurate in how we refer to this set. We have created a keycap design that is loosely artistically inspired by by some visual themes present in the interface of LCARS, and the broader optimistic spirit and design of 1990s sci-fi generally (compared to the harsher, colder colors of prior and later eras of sci-fi). So I think we should keep to calling this the "Galaxy Class" keyset and keyboards, or some similarly generic name—I'm obviously open to suggestions. "24th century" is another good general term.

I don't actually think the set we've come up with does violate anyone's intellectual property (we don't even use the characteristic rounded-corners graphics present in all LCARS designs), and frankly I'd like to keep it that way. And I'm sure MK, or any business, is going to feel the same way if and when they become involved.

Further, if it is made very clear that this is fan-made, small-run, and not-for profit, we'll be better off. I think it's fair to say that any business party involved will effectively just be taking a fee for their handling order processing and fulfillment on behalf of the GeekHack community (rather than profiting directly from the community-generated design).

Again, I think it's good to take our cues from the very generic "Turtle Power" set, which was just sort of vaguely thematically inspired by TMNT, without intentionally or directly trampling on anyone's intellectual property.

[Glod]

makes me think this should be run traditionally like every other group buy on geek hack. if the font is owned by Viacom then sp will not do them, months back key pop learned that lesson. dye sub may be only option....

[norbauer]

makes me think this should be run traditionally like every other group buy on geek hack. if the font is owned by Viacom then sp will not do them, months back key pop learned that lesson. dye sub may be only option....

We're not using a proprietary font. It is Swiss 911 Ultra Condensed. It is the consensus in the Trek-nerd community to be a good approximation of whatever Okuda & Co. used on the series. They may actually have bought and used that very font themselves. But they didn't create it.
http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/bitstream/swiss-911/ultra-compressed/

I don't think SP could give us any trouble for using it. I got it from an Trek community project site claiming that it is a free font, but I'm happy to pay the $25 to get a license from Myfonts just to be on the safe side. I can verify licensing if and when we get close to production.

[norbauer]

Update on my last post. I just looked into this, and the font was created by Bitstream a long time ago, so it's almost certainly what Okuda used. The rights are now owned by Monotype. So I'll just buy a license to make sure we're totally above-board.

[MOZ]

Please keep track of all your spending, so we can incorporate those costs into the final pricing for the sets.

[crazee64]

I voted for PBT due sub and I think 2 good reasons (aside from material preferences) that it suits this set are:

1. If we get logos dye subbed to match separately they won't look out of place (and the PBT colours will match)
2. It eliminates the upfront cost of a full set of legends.

That being said, a full set of legends for DS might be useful for other sets? Not to mention the lovely crispness...

[crazee64]

Oh, and to clarify (since this is an IC), I'd be in for either, so long as the cost of double shot is not absurd due to legend fees and lack of interest.

[CPTBadAss]

My fear is that we're going to incorporate too many things into this buy. I like the keyboard complete package but if this gets mired for years like another GB I'm thinking of, I'm not sure people will be too thrilled.

Also, working with MK.com means this is no longer a GB right? Because MK has said they will run buys but they have to keep the lights on.

[MOZ]

My fear is that we're going to incorporate too many things into this buy. I like the keyboard complete package but if this gets mired for years like another GB I'm thinking of, I'm not sure people will be too thrilled.

Also, working with MK.com means this is no longer a GB right? Because MK has said they will run buys but they have to keep the lights on.

Hey CPT, hopefully from what you have seen so far of me, says that I work fast, and I will try and keep this GB paced in a similar manner as well.

[norbauer]

That being said, a full set of legends for DS might be useful for other sets? Not to mention the lovely crispness...

agreed. That makes sense, because as I said above, this isn't just a straight copy of LCARS. It is thematically inspired and just generally a futuristic set of legends. Think of it being used for a set with grey legends and black keys, for example. You'd gave a totally different but possibly interesting set. Anyway, if we envision this set's tooling to be repurposed for non-Trek-themed purposes, maybe I should move all the Trek-inspired legends to the modifier pack. Stuff like the "engage" enter key is part of Core. That or if anybody wants to re-use the tooling, it'll just be up to them to make tooling for these few odd keys.

This is all assuming we end up going with ABS DS, of course, which at this point I kind of hope we do.

[norbauer]

My fear is that we're going to incorporate too many things into this buy. I like the keyboard complete package but if this gets mired for years like another GB I'm thinking of, I'm not sure people will be too thrilled.

Also, working with MK.com means this is no longer a GB right? Because MK has said they will run buys but they have to keep the lights on.

Hey CPT, hopefully from what you have seen so far of me, says that I work fast, and I will try and keep this GB paced in a similar manner as well.

I am willing to help out in what ways I can from the US too. I would really like to see this project happen.

At any rate, I guess since I've sort of accidentally fallen into being quite involved with this project without discussing any of this up front, I should enumerate what I'm willing and not willing to do to help.

I am willing and happy to do any or all of the following

• To continue my design work, mock ups, colors, legends tweaks, etc.
• Organize a GeekHack packing party in Boston and take care of shipping logistics. (I have access to a nice big space downtown where we could do it, and I know a few friends who would probably help out.) I have no idea how much work is involved in packing and shipping a GB like this (would love to hear from some people who have done it!), but I'd be willing to commit to pitching in 3-4 days of work (at roughly 8 hours per day), provided I could work them in at my leisure over, say, a two-week period.
• To take shipment of the aggregated keycaps and hold them until they can be shipped at the aforementioned event.
• Take care of communications with SP if for some reason they prefer to deal with someone in the USA
• Figure out how to promote this in the broader Trek-nerd community and then to take up that task, provided that the page we're promoting is written in a very generic way and is respectful of CBS copyrights.*
• Helping with building and/or designing a GB website, if that would be useful.

I am, with apologies, not willing to

• Be involved in any way (holding, proxying, facilitating, etc.) any product that obviously violates copyrights or trademarks (e.g., Starfleet-logo keycaps) or anything explicitly branded as "LCARS," "Star Trek," etc.
• Receive money and hold money for the GB from individual buyers.

*As to whether we actually try to promote this more widely, I am actually agnostic on that point. I would consider this a technique to employ if we have to in order to raise the necessary funds, not something we should necessarily do just for the sake of it. For everyone who has voted or participated in the thread in some way, this is a way for us to pool together privately and try to get something cool made that we would like to have for ourselves. Trying to make this into a huge operation just so we can say that we did isn't necessarily an unambiguously good thing, unless there are very clear and obvious rewards to doing so—beyond saving some each purchaser 20 bucks or whatever because there are more buyers. It's just not worth it.

[LechnerDE]

I just found this thread and read all 10 pages. I really appreciate how much thought you guys put into this especially norbauer!

Although I am by no means a Trekkie I still like the idea of having a futuristic keycap set

I'd definitely buy a set up to the ~100$ range. Hopefully that can be done!

[MOZ]

I have got the pricing and things are very interesting.

Since the bulk of the new legends are for the CORE set, using that as a yardstick, if we get above 100 orders for that CORE set, then we are looking at cheaper pricing for the ABS DS including the new legends as opposed to PBT Dyesub.

Given the popularity thus far I am sure we can hit that number. Now the question that arises is that do we go with Dye-sub PBT or Double-shot ABS.

From the polls, ABS had a lead initially but Dye-sub is now taking the lead.

Regarding the MK offer, we could discuss the possibility of having the GB on GH, and they could open up a Pre-order, for pre-assembled LCARS-style keyboards and possibly sets as well, thus making them a participant of the GB.

[norbauer]

I have got the pricing and things are very interesting.

Since the bulk of the new legends are for the CORE set, using that as a yardstick, if we get above 100 orders for that CORE set, then we are looking at cheaper pricing for the ABS DS including the new legends as opposed to PBT Dyesub.

Given the popularity thus far I am sure we can hit that number. Now the question that arises is that do we go with Dye-sub PBT or Double-shot ABS.

From the polls, ABS had a lead initially but Dye-sub is now taking the lead.

Regarding the MK offer, we could discuss the possibility of having the GB on GH, and they could open up a Pre-order, for pre-assembled LCARS-style keyboards and possibly sets as well, thus making them a participant of the GB.

Given the sample size, I think the voting basically simply shows that ABS and PBT are effectively equivalent in terms of interest to the community.

I don't want to push this point too firmly, but FWIW I would say that even though I initially favored PBT (and actually inherently prefer the material myself on most keysets), I think that PBT is a bad choice for this particular set, only because of how poorly suited the available best-match yellow/orange color is. I think somehow the mockup isn't properly conveying this, and I'm a little worried that if we end up making the PBT set that people will be unhappy with the final color scheme. I'll try to take some more sample pictures tomorrow in natural light to make that point more clearly.

I don't mean to be pushy on this point; I just want to make sure I'm being clear. The more I've looked at the samples, shown them to other people, and thought about it, the stronger I've come to feel on the matter. I think ABS DS is going to give the best result, at least in terms of visual aesthetics. (Though of course I realize for many people there may be other considerations.)

[MOZ]

I think you are prime example of a person who is pushing more int he direction of making it more authentic, as this isn't something that we do everyday, since when we began the idea of the LCARS set, and by looking at the online samples SP had, you were inclined towards PBT better matching the colors which was also fueled by your slight bias towards PBT. However after receiving the sample and more introspect, you realised that the ABS is much more fitting, which goes to show that your are looking for more authentic and not bias by choice of material or printing.

Which reminds me, original you wanted blanks as well, but with the new legends and DS, you now want legends. What a flip!

I for one, would like to go with ABS as well. However I'd like to leave the poll open as long as we can.

I am now looking at how we can manage the keyset+boards and the money that will be involved.

[Artichoke]

I think you are prime example of a person who is pushing more int he direction of making it more authentic, as this isn't something that we do everyday, since when we began the idea of the LCARS set, and by looking at the online samples SP had, you were inclined towards PBT better matching the colors which was also fueled by your slight bias towards PBT. However after receiving the sample and more introspect, you realised that the ABS is much more fitting, which goes to show that your are looking for more authentic and not bias by choice of material or printing.

Which reminds me, original you wanted blanks as well, but with the new legends and DS, you now want legends. What a flip!

I for one, would like to go with ABS as well. However I'd like to leave the poll open as long as we can.

I am now looking at how we can manage the keyset+boards and the money that will be involved.

Wonder if SP would cut us a deal since we were making a full set of legends rather than just a few random keys like most GBs do?

[norbauer]

I think you are prime example of a person who is pushing more int he direction of making it more authentic, as this isn't something that we do everyday, since when we began the idea of the LCARS set, and by looking at the online samples SP had, you were inclined towards PBT better matching the colors which was also fueled by your slight bias towards PBT. However after receiving the sample and more introspect, you realised that the ABS is much more fitting, which goes to show that your are looking for more authentic and not bias by choice of material or printing.

Which reminds me, original you wanted blanks as well, but with the new legends and DS, you now want legends. What a flip!

I for one, would like to go with ABS as well. However I'd like to leave the poll open as long as we can.

I am now looking at how we can manage the keyset+boards and the money that will be involved.

Haha! It's true. Once I started digging into the details, I completely changed my stance on both issues. Maybe this just makes me more credible, since I have been convinced even in spite of my natural inclinations/tastes!

Anyway, I actually still would love to own a blank set, but it looks like there just isn't enough enthusiasm for that option in the community for this theme. As much as divito and I would be keen!

I'm exploring other options for payment processing and will report back when I know more.

[MOZ]

Wonder if SP would cut us a deal since we were making a full set of legends rather than just a few random keys like most GBs do?

I will ask them this, however I doubt it, because it also means more work. I also need clarification from them on who will hold the access and legal rights to those molds for the legends, SP or us (GH, since it is crowd-funded)?

[MOZ]

So the pricing that I got was the lowest and it is quite good to be honest considering the number of colors we have, which is crazy high

We (Those participating in the GB), would own the molds to the legends, which I (If I organise the GB, which looks to be so) would like to give these upto the GeekHack, so that they may be used for any other future projects and maybe round two or LCARS based on another Star Trek series. This is something hopefully norbauer and anyone else involved in the GB can agree upon.

[BakerMan1971]

Well I am incredibly impressed with the honesty on here, and do agree that ABS colours would match better.
However I will still be up for ordering either, if I can get pricing I can probably add one or two more orders for a couple of pals.

[Turbinia]

I originally voted for PBT blanks, but it is awesome that through SP the doubleshot ABS is a real possibility. Make it so.

*only thing I don't like with the current mock ups is the number group, kinda want numbers...

[LechnerDE]

Concerning the ABS vs PBT debate:

I'd actually buy both if they aren't identical. Maybe there is a possibility to make a PBT set with a different Star Trek color scheme that matches the available colors better.

This way we don't lose the people who only are in for PBT and vice versa. Some people might even order both versions

[MOZ]

Maybe we'll do a different series based LCARS set in PBT that matches the available color palate.

This round looks to be heading towards DS ABS.

[norbauer]

So the pricing that I got was the lowest and it is quite good to be honest considering the number of colors we have, which is crazy high

We (Those participating in the GB), would own the molds to the legends, which I (If I organise the GB, which looks to be so) would like to give these upto the GeekHack, so that they may be used for any other future projects and maybe round two or LCARS based on another Star Trek series. This is something hopefully norbauer and anyone else involved in the GB can agree upon.

I would be entirely in favor of this! I would love to see these designs and tooling become GeekHack community property, and we could even share them with our friends at KDBMania, OTD, Deskthority, etc. if they ever wanted to do a round with these legends. (Presumably SP holds the physical tooling itself and will allow anyone to use it whom we say has permission.)

Maybe there is a possibility to make a PBT set with a different Star Trek color scheme that matches the available colors better.

I would be very happy to collaborate on such a design, but perhaps for a second round or another GB entirely. It would be very easy to go crazy with our ambitions in this first crack at things and possibly in doing so put the overall project at risk of not getting done. Baby steps.

[norbauer]

I just heard back from my friend with a merchant account and he'd rather not handle the payment processing for us on this one. So hopefully we'll get some joy either from MK or another member of the community who is in a position to assist with the payments. Any ideas or brainstorming would be most welcome from anyone.

[MOZ]

I'm still trying to convince MK, they aren't interested in running a GB< rather, just buy and then sell.

[Elrick]

Concerning the ABS vs PBT debate:
This way we don't lose the people who only are in for PBT and vice versa. Some people might even order both versions

I'll still buy in whether it's ABS or PBT but you need to use either SA or DSA profiles.  That would be a final killer deal for me - if you guys stuck with DCS only.

[norbauer]

I'm still trying to convince MK, they aren't interested in running a GB< rather, just buy and then sell.

What about other people who have run keycap group buys in the past? Maybe we could ask them how they organized the money collection and so forth. How, for example, was Retro DSA accomplished?

I have read some horror stories both on GeekHack (from one fellow who organized a GB) and off of GH about Paypal locking down people's accounts arbitrarily for long periods whenever there is unusual activity, and I personally wouldn't want to expose my own personal Paypal account to the kind of risk that would come from tons of people paying me for something—especially for something that I'm not personally directly going to benefit from financially anyway.

I would be interested in knowing what have been common solutions to and experiences with these issues in the past in GH GBs, if anybody knows.

Should I maybe reach out to Massdrop and see if they're interested in organizing the payment processing and/or fulfillment for us? Or maybe Feng or the people who are doing Hyper Fuse—that sort of thing—would be interested in helping with payment logistics? I'm still newish here at GeekHack and I don't know the regulars.

[MOZ]

Most people just use PayPal.

I am fine with using the same, however as I mentioned in PM, since I am in India, we would be wasting around 18% in just PayPal and forex charges, since I will be payed in USD which will be converted to INR, I will then pay SP in USD which will be converted from INR. Thus I need an American partner, willing to take the money and handle that.

All my GB so far have involved production locally in India, thus there weren't double the PayPal and double forex charges.

The other reason I am looking for other avenues for this GB is the keyboard with the keycaps preinstalled.

We can go along with MassDrop, so it would be great if you can explore that avenue, while I try MK.

[norbauer]

Most people just use PayPal.

I am fine with using the same, however as I mentioned in PM, since I am in India, we would be wasting around 18% in just PayPal and forex charges, since I will be payed in USD which will be converted to INR, I will then pay SP in USD which will be converted from INR. Thus I need an American partner, willing to take the money and handle that.

For whatever it's worth, I know at least a few folks who voted in the poll (friends of mine) are based in India.

Also, doesn't Paypal allow you to keep balances in multiple currencies? I know I have historically had separate simultaneous GBP and USD balances. I noticed that people who have organized group buys in the past are frequently in the UK, so there must be a way around this problem: either there is way to avoid the transaction fees by keeping multiple Paypal balances, the organizers have their own merchant accounts because they're businesses, or that or the fees are ultimately no big deal on a transaction of this size and can simply be rolled into the overall pricing.

I'll email MassDrop.

[MOZ]

That is good to know, atleast there is some interest in India.

PayPal behaves differently for different countries, for eg, PayPal India doesn't gift payments. I'll see about having multiple currencies.

[CPTBadAss]

tjcaustin has run a few GBs for keycaps this year: Klaxon 2.0 and CCnG Round2. But I think he and the D-Squad have other upcoming plans.

BunnyLake and the members of CTRL ALT Store ran Miami and Hyper Fuse.

Ragnorock just ran an Imsto Dyesub GB. And calmb4tehpwn and jiljil32 are running keycap GBs right now. Sheraton has GBs for GMK caps and KeyPop has run Coffee and Cream as well as Bumblebee. But I think all these people are busy doing other buys.

However, as Moz said, the people I've listed only run keycap buys. I'm not sure any of these people  wants to step up to do preinstalled caps on keyboards or even take this buy on (I'm simply listing who has done keycap GBs before). That essentially exposes their PayPal to taking on the combined monetary sum of keyboards and keycaps. I think you'd definitely need a business level Paypal and I'm not too sure how that works.

[norbauer]

OK, email sent to MassDrop; we'll see what (if anything) they say.  I'm also looking into/considering KickStarter as an option (basically funding up to the point of covering the tooling and rewards for a certain number of supporters at a pre-determined price tier). Since this wouldn't require tying to my personal Paypal, I might be willing to be the US locus for a KickStarter campaign, but I need to look into this more and think a bit more about any potential risks.

Sorry for not being able to offer to just handle the money readily. If this were back in the days when I had an e-commerce company, it would have been easy. But no longer, alas.

[MOZ]

MK has refused to step into the GB format at the  moment. So that option is out.

I have had one member willing to accept payments.

So now the question is, how do we handle the pre assembled keyboards?