[IC] LCARS keyboard set - GB LIVE!!!

[MOZ]

Edit: Nevermind, BSP doesn't have required tooling.

Your only bet is still SP - like it or not.  I would wait for their SA profile dye-sub because it would be the absolute FIRST one done here on Geekhack Central.......EVAR  .

You need to be the FIRST to blaze a trail for all others to follow here MOZ.  When it goes SA dye-sub all people will remember is the name of the person who started and finished it, and you'll go down in history as the first one who ventured into SA Profile dye-sub, where no one has gone before  .

SP can do PBT SA, however I don't think they have the required tooling for that either.

Also, the theme of this proposed set goes better with DSA profile than any other.

[Elrick]

SP can do PBT SA, however I don't think they have the required tooling for that either.

Also, the theme of this proposed set goes better with DSA profile than any other.

If you want to do PBT in DSA profile, that would be novel.  I would be interested in buying some off you  .

Sorry for not keeping up with your latest posts relating to this possible Group Buy (due to my own laziness) and using DSA in PBT material.  Maybe you have already mentioned it, hence my extreme embarrassment here, sorry.

 

[stoic-lemon]

In my opinion, I put more stock in "our" collective ability to be ready and proceed at our own pace. Drumming up interest in a maybe two months, or maybe five months is going to be a tough sell, and tough position to be in when we have no control.

Doesn't mean going to DCS means we have to be instantly going to a GB, but it means we have a tangible approach in wait time for those interested in the set, and still allows time for marketing, etc... It does lose a bit of the lustre for those on the fence of the GB, but I think DCS will still be palatable, and maybe even preferred.

I agree. If we start to drum up interest when we have no idea when the GB will start, we run the risk of a lot of people dropping out or complaining, or just forgetting about it when it actually does start. I have no problem in waiting, and I'm sure that once we are ready to start shouting from the rooftops, the punters will come in droves.

The good thing about the way you guys have run this so far is that you have been unwilling to compromise the quality of the set, or the look that the set is aiming to emulate. Most people here are pretty patient, and even new faces like myself have learnt that a good set, like this one is sure to be, is worth the wait.

[norbauer]

Edit: Nevermind, BSP doesn't have required tooling.

Your only bet is still SP - like it or not.  I would wait for their SA profile dye-sub because it would be the absolute FIRST one done here on Geekhack Central.......EVAR  .

You need to be the FIRST to blaze a trail for all others to follow here MOZ.  When it goes SA dye-sub all people will remember is the name of the person who started and finished it, and you'll go down in history as the first one who ventured into SA Profile dye-sub, where no one has gone before  .

SP can do PBT SA, however I don't think they have the required tooling for that either.

Also, the theme of this proposed set goes better with DSA profile than any other.

Unfortunately, it is correct that SP can't sublimate on SA and doesn't even have any plans to be able to do so in the immediate future. DSA is something that they are working on and have been working on for some time, but they're just not quite there yet.

I also agree with Moz that the shape and flatness of DSA match the LCARS rounded-rectangles graphical design so well that it would be a shame to compromise on that.

If you want to do PBT in DSA profile, that would be novel.  I would be interested in buying some off you  .

Sorry for not keeping up with your latest posts relating to this possible Group Buy (due to my own laziness) and using DSA in PBT material.  Maybe you have already mentioned it, hence my extreme embarrassment here, sorry.

No worries for not keeping up, but that is actually the current plan. Or at least it was until we found out that we'd have to wait a few months for PBT DSA dyesub to be available as an option. We had to switch to PBT in order to preserve with fidelity the LCARS font. We'll just need to get a custom Pantone color for the yellow, since the existing SP PBT palette is a little weak in yellows and doesn't provide a good match.

In my opinion, I put more stock in "our" collective ability to be ready and proceed at our own pace. Drumming up interest in a maybe two months, or maybe five months is going to be a tough sell, and tough position to be in when we have no control.

Doesn't mean going to DCS means we have to be instantly going to a GB, but it means we have a tangible approach in wait time for those interested in the set, and still allows time for marketing, etc... It does lose a bit of the lustre for those on the fence of the GB, but I think DCS will still be palatable, and maybe even preferred.

I agree. If we start to drum up interest when we have no idea when the GB will start, we run the risk of a lot of people dropping out or complaining, or just forgetting about it when it actually does start. I have no problem in waiting, and I'm sure that once we are ready to start shouting from the rooftops, the punters will come in droves.

The good thing about the way you guys have run this so far is that you have been unwilling to compromise the quality of the set, or the look that the set is aiming to emulate. Most people here are pretty patient, and even new faces like myself have learnt that a good set, like this one is sure to be, is worth the wait.

I think I am coming around to this view myself. I think there is something to be said about patience and doing things right. This is the advantage of group buys designed by enthusiasts rather than companies. Because we're making it for ourselves, we can take the time to do it right rather than worrying about timelines and other more logistical concerns first and foremost.

I haven't broached the subject with Massdrop yet. Hopefully they'll still be willing to do this with us in a few months rather than now. I don't see why not but I'll get in touch with them to confirm this. If waiting meant losing the Massdrop partnership, that could complicate matters.

[LechnerDE]

Because we're making it for ourselves, we can take the time to do it right rather than worrying about timelines and other more logistical concerns first and foremost.

This can't be stressed enough. No major compromises for this GB 

[norbauer]

Sounds like waiting is the general consensus, and I've come around to this view myself. I have contacted Massdrop and I'll look forward to hearing whether they'll be content waiting along with us for the SP tooling updates. I'll post here when I have a reply.

SP is also sending me samples of the two dyesublimation printing methods (in-house vs screenprint), and I'll pose hi-res images here when they arrive. While we're waiting on the DSA tooling updates, we might as well proceed in nailing down the other final manufacturing details and finalizing the mock-ups with the new PBT colors the Pantone addition (which I'll work on soon).

Thanks everybody! More soon.

[MOZ]

I would wait it out even on the color matching and mockups, since there is no telling if SP would be successful or not. Although ideally nothing is ever in vain, you learn and experience, but unless things materialise, it can be disheartening, so I would say, take is slow, very slow, until we have full details on SP's complete capabilities.

[CPTBadAss]

I'll just play Devil's Advocate for a second. I'm going to point out that there have been GBs like Round 4 and Toxic that lasted a year or more. Is it that important to have DSA that everyone involved here wants to risk waiting 4 months, or 6 months, or more?

[norbauer]

I would wait it out even on the color matching and mockups, since there is no telling if SP would be successful or not. Although ideally nothing is ever in vain, you learn and experience, but unless things materialise, it can be disheartening, so I would say, take is slow, very slow, until we have full details on SP's complete capabilities.

Thanks, Moz. No worries; I have been a little frustrated here and there with the unadvertised SP limitations, but never annoyed by the project itself.

I'll take my time on the mock-ups. Looks like for better or worse there is no rush now! 

[norbauer]

I'll just play Devil's Advocate for a second. I'm going to point out that there have been GBs like Round 4 and Toxic that lasted a year or more. Is it that important to have DSA that everyone involved here wants to risk waiting 4 months, or 6 months, or more?

I'm not feeling great either about the fact that the waiting time is unspecified at this point, but in truth, beyond enthusiastic anticipation, what's the rush? This is a total whim-and-fancy project.

[CPTBadAss]

I'm afraid you'll lose the momentum you built up. Especially since we don't *know* SP's timeline. But you're right, there's no rush.

On a more personal note, I really wish this was GMK or SP DCS/SA.

[Binge]

Agreed.  I have been less than enthusiastic about SA/DSA cap sets as I've been able to try them.

[divito]

I'm afraid you'll lose the momentum you built up. Especially since we don't *know* SP's timeline. But you're right, there's no rush.

On a more personal note, I really wish this was GMK or SP DCS/SA.

Also agreed. While the novelty of going DSA would be nice and true to the set, I have to wonder if it's worth it, with the company that's rolling out capabilities on an unspecified time frame.

That, and while GMK would be nice, it's hard for any GB to hit the 400 sets required.

[norbauer]

Valid opinions all.

I for one favor sticking to the ideas for this set that originally grew out of our discussions in this thread though, rather than switching things up just because it would mean moving to the ordering phase sooner. I feel like this should be a project of passion about doing something unusual that is as faithful as possible to the TNG aesthetic, without making any compromises. This what fan-run, enthusiast projects are all about, and what makes them special. We as a community can be more patient than a commercial enterprise, because we don't have any particular quarterly bottom lines to meet, and all the labor is free.

It seems like the important things for staying faithful to the vision are: crisply rendered SWISS 911 legends, flat rounded-rectangles in the LCARS style as much as possible (i.e., DSA), and accurate colors. I'm going to keep working with SP to nail down final engineering details towards that end. I truly think you guys are going to like what they are working on for us. (I'll have photo samples soon to show you exactly what I mean.)

As soon as I have updated mock-ups, price tiers, and a more precise timeline from them I'll of course post here. It may take a few weeks, but I think they're proving to be weeks well spent. After all the back-and-forth previously, I'm a little reticent to prepare and post mock-ups again until SP can promise me that they'll be something they can actually make.

SP is literally working hand-in-hand with us to bring their tooling into place faster than originally planned to accomodate DSA dyesub—just to enable a GH GB. This is a cool thing.

[regack]

Waiting for DSA dyesub is fine.  I'm going to wait 9 months for those little led color changer thingies, I can wait for the perfect profile for the LCARS set...

[norbauer]

Hi everybody. Just a quick update to let you know that this project hasn't fallen off my (or Signature Plastic's) radar. I just heard from Melissa at SP and she says they are looking to be able to sublimate on a full DSA profile set as of mid-February, and that progress is being made as we speak toward that end. I also continue to work with her to get all the colors (both of the dyes and resins) exactly right, and also to make sure that we use the process that yields the crispest possible legends for dyesub. We're going to be really at the bleeding edge in terms of keycap manufacturing tech on this project, so I'm increasingly excited for how it's going to turn out, even if it is taking much longer than I might have hoped.

I'll keep everyone posted as the final details are nailed down.

[Elrick]

I just heard from Melissa at SP and she says they are looking to be able to sublimate on a full DSA profile set as of mid-February, and that progress is being made as we speak toward that end. I also continue to work with her to get all the colors (both of the dyes and resins) exactly right, and also to make sure that we use the process that yields the crispest possible legends for dyesub. We're going to be really at the bleeding edge in terms of keycap manufacturing tech on this project, so I'm increasingly excited for how it's going to turn out, even if it is taking much longer than I might have hoped.

BRILLIANT, getting an all DSA PBT set would be the absolute first here on Geekhack.  Thank you for making this happen norbauer and co  .

[avtar]

I didn't click through all the different pages for this post but I noticed some people expressing interest for the original colours in blanks. I'll chime in for that.

[MOZ]

Hi everybody. Just a quick update to let you know that this project hasn't fallen off my (or Signature Plastic's) radar. I just heard from Melissa at SP and she says they are looking to be able to sublimate on a full DSA profile set as of mid-February, and that progress is being made as we speak toward that end. I also continue to work with her to get all the colors (both of the dyes and resins) exactly right, and also to make sure that we use the process that yields the crispest possible legends for dyesub. We're going to be really at the bleeding edge in terms of keycap manufacturing tech on this project, so I'm increasingly excited for how it's going to turn out, even if it is taking much longer than I might have hoped.

I'll keep everyone posted as the final details are nailed down.

Excellent news not only for this project but keycap manufacturing as a whole.

[BakerMan1971]

Yep still up for it, excited for the end product.

[Hull]

If the plastic of the keys are thin/tiny bit translucent or clear with colored coating, simple LED lights underneath will make them glow a bit in the dark. Very nice feature when powering up. That will increase the "want" factor for the common Earthling. I would also very much like a Topre version, but that is perhaps abit futuristic dreaming.
 


https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtfrern6x7d8iis/kboard_LEDenhanced.png

[norbauer]

I'm just quickly posting an updated version of the Core set with the new PBT colors, dyesub colors given in CMYK, design spec details, etc. The best match color for yellow was Pantone 141C, as per all the prior discussions in this thread. I'm currently very happy with the color palette, and I think it very screen-accurate, including with matching to my original translite from the TNG set.

This was sent over to SP today. Melissa there is going to review the tech details and get back to me with any needed mods. Then I'll make up the Mods and Ergodox specs.

Now we just have to make sure the legend colors come out right and the lines crisp; I'm working with SP on the details.

Last we heard, they are slated to have the tooling to make this set online by mid-month. When that's lined up, we'll be ready to move to the GB phase.

In short: things are still moving—slowly, but moving!

[divito]

Can't wait!!

[Elrick]

Last we heard, they are slated to have the tooling to make this set online by mid-month. When that's lined up, we'll be ready to move to the GB phase.

In short: things are still moving—slowly, but moving!

At least it's moving along.  Getting a Star Trek key-set is the greatest want in my life, have never had the opportunity to own one hence this will be the Group Buy to be in.

Thanks for making it happen 

[Noko]

I personally am happy with the SP DSA decision--though I am one of the few who prefer them for typing I guess.
I think this is going to make me shell out for a full size board (other than the terrible Razer Blackwidow I started out with a long time ago..)

[vierax]

Like it ! Still as nice as the early colour scheme but more balanced.

Did you sent the whole kits (iso, modifiers, 7u space bar, stepped capslock, etc…) to Melissa or only the standard ANSI 1.25 you show us ?
I'm not really aware of the recent SP improvement but will the the space bar also PBT and DSA ? have SP even created the mold for this option?

[Elrick]

I think this is going to make me shell out for a full size board (other than the terrible Razer Blackwidow I started out with a long time ago..)

I just personally bought an all green MX cherry keyboard from WASD.  The great thing about it I only buy the keyboard without any key-caps which is the cheapest on the net.

You can choose either the 104 or TKL keyboards from them in a variety of cherry coloured switches.

[MOZ]

Hopes are high!

[intelli78]

I'm definitely in for one, maybe two.

[atlas3686]

This is looking great!

[BakerMan1971]

quick question will the caps have a smooth texture or (the more desirable) like typing on sugarcubes texture?

[norbauer]

quick question will the caps have a smooth texture or (the more desirable) like typing on sugarcubes texture?

The standard SP finish for the DSA profile is "matte," which is lightly textured rather than smooth. That's what we'll be using. :)

[wasabah]

I'm also still interested and am happy that the choice is DSA.

Will there be any blanks? I read the last pages back until October, but couldn't find anything about it.

[jdeblese]

Norbauer, your design image on the 5th says ABS spacebar, but aren't SP working on a DSA PBT spacebar?

[katushkin]

Y U NO DO ISO? D:

But seriously, that looks awesome. Look like I'm going to have to buy another US layout board some time in the future.

[LechnerDE]

Y U NO DO ISO? D:

I was actively promoting ISO as you can see in this post there also was a mockup. I don't know why it's not in the OP anymore.


http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48839.msg1091185#msg1091185

[norbauer]

I'm also still interested and am happy that the choice is DSA.

Will there be any blanks? I read the last pages back until October, but couldn't find anything about it.

alas, the blanks got shot down in voting, but I was personally in favor.

[norbauer]

Y U NO DO ISO? D:

I was actively promoting ISO as you can see in this post there also was a mockup. I don't know why it's not in the OP anymore.


http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48839.msg1091185#msg1091185

ISO is totally still happening in the mods set. I just got approval yesterday for the mockup on the core set; mods and ergo are up next.

[norbauer]

Norbauer, your design image on the 5th says ABS spacebar, but aren't SP working on a DSA PBT spacebar?

The current OP mockups are out of date. I'll ask Moz to update them when I have final ones. I actually confirmed with SP yesterday that we'll be one of the first sets ever (if not the first) to have DSA with a PBT spacebar to match the rest of the set!

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

Haven't checked in on this in a while, but the progress looks promising...

Can't wait to hear more updates. This set will definitely be worth purchasing.

[wasabah]

I just got approval yesterday for the mockup on the core set; mods and ergo are up next.

Awesome!!

[jdeblese]

The current OP mockups are out of date. I'll ask Moz to update them when I have final ones. I actually confirmed with SP yesterday that we'll be one of the first sets ever (if not the first) to have DSA with a PBT spacebar to match the rest of the set!

Nice!
As for first, guess it'll be a race between you and Matt3o to see who's quicker in turning their IC into a GB

[katushkin]

Y U NO DO ISO? D:

I was actively promoting ISO as you can see in this post there also was a mockup. I don't know why it's not in the OP anymore.


http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48839.msg1091185#msg1091185

Yissssssss

I think I signed up to the mailing list. I spend far too much money on these things goddamit...

ISO is totally still happening in the mods set. I just got approval yesterday for the mockup on the core set; mods and ergo are up next.

[YMSNoms]

I've ummed and ahhed about this Long Story short I WANT IN

[SpAmRaY]

Chinese play soy sauce pass by

[Elrick]

The current OP mockups are out of date. I'll ask Moz to update them when I have final ones. I actually confirmed with SP yesterday that we'll be one of the first sets ever (if not the first) to have DSA with a PBT spacebar to match the rest of the set!

Eager to see this one front up with the so-called 'updated' design  .  Please see that it happens.....

[LechnerDE]

Just something to take into consideration:

In my opinion it would be wise to delay the launch of the GB a little. Looking at the posts in this thread it is clear that the initial hype for this set has cooled down (which is normal since there weren't too many updates).

Matt3o just ran the Macross GB in DSA and is about to launch an even bigger DSA GB for a grey set. Don't forget that DSA is not the most popular profile ever. In addition to that people just emptied their wallets for the Toxic GB so I am afraid many people won't have enough funds to join yet another DSA GB.

So chose the order period wisely to maximize the order count 

[atlas3686]

Just something to take into consideration:

In my opinion it would be wise to delay the launch of the GB a little. Looking at the posts in this thread it is clear that the initial hype for this set has cooled down (which is normal since there weren't too many updates).

Matt3o just ran the Macross GB in DSA and is about to launch an even bigger DSA GB for a grey set. Don't forget that DSA is not the most popular profile ever. In addition to that people just emptied their wallets for the Toxic GB so I am afraid many people won't have enough funds to join yet another DSA GB.

So chose the order period wisely to maximize the order count 

Agreed, just emptied my wallet for both the Toxic GB and Ivan's Black on Black PBT GB, I am so in for this one but please guys next month or the month after.

[norbauer]

Just something to take into consideration:

In my opinion it would be wise to delay the launch of the GB a little. Looking at the posts in this thread it is clear that the initial hype for this set has cooled down (which is normal since there weren't too many updates).

Matt3o just ran the Macross GB in DSA and is about to launch an even bigger DSA GB for a grey set. Don't forget that DSA is not the most popular profile ever. In addition to that people just emptied their wallets for the Toxic GB so I am afraid many people won't have enough funds to join yet another DSA GB.

So chose the order period wisely to maximize the order count 

Agreed, just emptied my wallet for both the Toxic GB and Ivan's Black on Black PBT GB, I am so in for this one but please guys next month or the month after.

Sounds good to me. I just did the same, so I sympathize.

I have sort of intentionally been dawdling on finalizing the designs anyway (the only thing left is the MODS set) because SP has been taking it's merry time getting the production tooling on-line and thus there hasn't seemed like there was any rush. To be fair, we're not just pushing the edge of their first dyesub on DSA PBT, but we're also going to be using a special screen-print process for the sublimation templates that will yield crisper legends than you've probably ever seen with dyesub. There are also details of color-matching the dye to the colors of the other resins in the set on the nav-wheel numpad thing, which is requiring coordination between their third-party screenprinting template/dye provider and SP. This all understandably takes time to work out.

So, at this rate, I'll just keep plowing forward at my current leisurely place; I would say we're looking at around a month from now anyway.

[atlas3686]

Just something to take into consideration:

In my opinion it would be wise to delay the launch of the GB a little. Looking at the posts in this thread it is clear that the initial hype for this set has cooled down (which is normal since there weren't too many updates).

Matt3o just ran the Macross GB in DSA and is about to launch an even bigger DSA GB for a grey set. Don't forget that DSA is not the most popular profile ever. In addition to that people just emptied their wallets for the Toxic GB so I am afraid many people won't have enough funds to join yet another DSA GB.

So chose the order period wisely to maximize the order count 

Agreed, just emptied my wallet for both the Toxic GB and Ivan's Black on Black PBT GB, I am so in for this one but please guys next month or the month after.

Sounds good to me. I just did the same, so I sympathize.

I have sort of intentionally been dawdling on finalizing the designs anyway (the only thing left is the MODS set) because SP has been taking it's merry time getting the production tooling on-line and thus there hasn't seemed like there was any rush. To be fair, we're not just pushing the edge of their first dyesub on DSA PBT, but we're also going to be using a special screen-print process for the sublimation templates that will yield crisper legends than you've probably ever seen with dyesub. There are also details of color-matching the dye to the colors of the other resins in the set on the nav-wheel numpad thing, which is requiring coordination between their third-party screenprinting template/dye provider and SP. This all understandably takes time to work out.

So, at this rate, I'll just keep plowing forward at my current leisurely place; I would say we're looking at around a month from now anyway.

Sounds, perfect, these are going to be great