Author Topic: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions  (Read 1245431 times)

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Offline argentstonecutter

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6200 on: Mon, 01 January 2024, 16:02:57 »
1. 68 keys aren't enough. 84 keys are too many. I need all of DEL/HOME/PGUP/PGDN/END as separate keys, but the only key I use in the FK row is escape.

2. Outemu makes some damned good switches, and Gateron are boring.

3. A keycap set that only has "WIN" or a Microsoft logo on the OS key should be a war crime.

Offline argentstonecutter

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6201 on: Mon, 01 January 2024, 16:09:23 »
1. I cannot stand 60% boards either, I don't think they look attractive what so ever and although using a HHKB was an enjoyable experience, I couldn't ever use it as my daily driver.
My reaction to 60% boards is to get flashbacks to 1980 and the adm3a and bit-encoded key layout and using Shift-RUB and Control-HJKL and growing wrist pain from the lousy mechanism. When the HHKB came out I was kind of excited and bought one sight unseen. It was a mistake.

Offline argentstonecutter

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6202 on: Mon, 01 January 2024, 16:14:41 »
6. "They don't make them like they used to." The standard build quality on vintage keyboards is better than 95% of the crap being mass produced today.
I worked for Honeywell in 1978 and we had the BEST keyboards. I really miss discrete Microswitch keys.

Offline argentstonecutter

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6203 on: Mon, 01 January 2024, 20:26:29 »
This may be absolute heresy on a board like this, but I kinda like rubber domes more than mechanical switches. Idk, but I find I type faster on them. Maybe because I'm used to MX reds which are too light for me and I tend to mis-hit keys.
Dell L100 is a nice keyboard. But my wrist is hurting a lot less since I got a mechanical with Silent Limes.

Offline iri

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6204 on: Tue, 02 January 2024, 05:19:37 »
wow, an old furry
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline mohawk1367

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6205 on: Tue, 02 January 2024, 06:39:41 »
65 and 75 are senseless

HHKB (keyboard) is overrated (quality of case, inconsistency)

salvation is bad keyboard due usb cutout and qc

meletrix is bad budget option

vintage blacks are overrated

why is 65 and 75 senseless?

hhkb underrated

idk what salvation or meletrix are ngl

vintage blacks are overrated indeed
someone needs to make an aussie keyboard community called QMƎɹ┴⅄. get it? haha :D

Offline mohawk1367

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6206 on: Tue, 02 January 2024, 06:42:33 »
6. "They don't make them like they used to." The standard build quality on vintage keyboards is better than 95% of the crap being mass produced today.
I worked for Honeywell in 1978 and we had the BEST keyboards. I really miss discrete Microswitch keys.

awesome. i have 2 honeywell keyboards but both are hall effect
someone needs to make an aussie keyboard community called QMƎɹ┴⅄. get it? haha :D

Offline argentstonecutter

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6207 on: Wed, 03 January 2024, 10:53:24 »
awesome. i have 2 honeywell keyboards but both are hall effect
Yeh, those were the ones. https://deskthority.net/wiki/Micro_Switch_SW_Series

Offline LavenderB

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6208 on: Fri, 05 January 2024, 03:48:50 »
1. 68 keys aren't enough. 84 keys are too many. I need all of DEL/HOME/PGUP/PGDN/END as separate keys, but the only key I use in the FK row is escape.
So an FRL TKL layout? Those have been growing in popularity lately.
Safa | 1993 UK ISO-DE Model M  | Frog TKL | 3d printed bakeneko | Akko 5075s

Offline argentstonecutter

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6209 on: Fri, 05 January 2024, 06:37:43 »
FRL TKL doesn't give you a place for both ESC and "`~". An XT column on the left would do that (65XT). Or 71 key, with the "`~" on the right like this...
« Last Edit: Fri, 05 January 2024, 06:57:32 by argentstonecutter »

Offline Rhienfo

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6210 on: Fri, 05 January 2024, 06:53:26 »
FRL TKL doesn't give you a place for both ESC and "`~". An XT column on the left would do that. Or 71 key, with the "`~" on the right like this...

I mean it kinda does, you can split the backspace and get both keys (but if you prefer regular backspace then you have to use layers then)


Offline argentstonecutter

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6211 on: Fri, 05 January 2024, 08:13:04 »
65% with a split backspace and split left shift would work as well, there's lots of options once you start splitting keys, but then it's not 68 keys any more. And boards with split keys are even harder to find.

Offline VaporKeebs

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6212 on: Sun, 07 January 2024, 19:56:36 »
Unpopular for the general public... split backspace should be the norm.

We dont need the backslash to be that big. And it frees up space for the tilde and the backslash.

Offline Rhienfo

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6213 on: Sun, 07 January 2024, 23:48:18 »
Unpopular for the general public... split backspace should be the norm.

We dont need the backslash to be that big. And it frees up space for the tilde and the backslash.

I'd agree with that, actually why is regular backspace the norm, that would be interesting to know if there is a reason

Offline bkrownd

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6214 on: Mon, 08 January 2024, 02:11:29 »

If there's a key that needs splitting it's the waste-of-space spacebar.  Backspace should be below the "v" key, space should be below the "n" key.  Both about 2u. 

Offline Prince Valiant

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6215 on: Mon, 08 January 2024, 08:12:00 »

If there's a key that needs splitting it's the waste-of-space spacebar.  Backspace should be below the "v" key, space should be below the "n" key.  Both about 2u.
Seems to be the norm for non-standard splits like Kinesis Advantage and Ergodox where they have it 2U vertical plus additional keys in a cluster. I tend to favor my right more than my left for space duty but, on a leading space I will sometimes use the left. I might remap mine and see how frequently I end up backspacing characters :).

Offline Prince Valiant

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6216 on: Mon, 08 January 2024, 08:59:40 »
Unpopular for the general public... split backspace should be the norm.

We dont need the backslash to be that big. And it frees up space for the tilde and the backslash.

I'd agree with that, actually why is regular backspace the norm, that would be interesting to know if there is a reason
Easier to identify and slap at it with a pinky is my guess.

Offline Rhienfo

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6217 on: Mon, 08 January 2024, 20:22:57 »

If there's a key that needs splitting it's the waste-of-space spacebar.  Backspace should be below the "v" key, space should be below the "n" key.  Both about 2u.

I mean you are probably right, but idk I like having a big spacebar unless I'm on an ergo board/anything below a 60%, just feels and sounds good

Offline iri

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6218 on: Tue, 09 January 2024, 02:56:14 »
I'm so happy there is always a spacebar under my left thumb as the right one is non-operational
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline mohawk1367

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6219 on: Tue, 09 January 2024, 06:40:13 »
using your thumb to hit space?!!??  :eek:
someone needs to make an aussie keyboard community called QMƎɹ┴⅄. get it? haha :D

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6220 on: Tue, 09 January 2024, 07:30:00 »

using your thumb to hit space?


Of course! Always.
Do you send a finger down there to make the hit?
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Offline mohawk1367

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6221 on: Tue, 09 January 2024, 07:44:39 »

using your thumb to hit space?


Of course! Always.
Do you send a finger down there to make the hit?

yes...  :-X
someone needs to make an aussie keyboard community called QMƎɹ┴⅄. get it? haha :D

Offline Prince Valiant

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6222 on: Tue, 09 January 2024, 08:33:09 »

using your thumb to hit space?


Of course! Always.
Do you send a finger down there to make the hit?

yes...  :-X
Maybe give the thumb a try sometime :cool:.

Offline mohawk1367

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6223 on: Tue, 09 January 2024, 09:09:08 »

using your thumb to hit space?


Of course! Always.
Do you send a finger down there to make the hit?

yes...  :-X
Maybe give the thumb a try sometime :cool:.

nah too much pointless effort
someone needs to make an aussie keyboard community called QMƎɹ┴⅄. get it? haha :D

Offline tricheboars

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6224 on: Tue, 09 January 2024, 11:06:57 »
completely stock HHKB hybrid (not silenced) is the best keyboard in the world. no lubing needed. no type-s.  bliss
|  Fundamentalist ErgoDox Zealot  |  HHKB Hybrid

Offline iri

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6225 on: Tue, 09 January 2024, 17:15:05 »
using your thumb to hit space?!!??  :eek:
Both thumbs. That's how touch typing is supposed to work. For a person with 10 functional fingers that is.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline mohawk1367

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6226 on: Wed, 10 January 2024, 06:40:38 »
using your thumb to hit space?!!??  :eek:
Both thumbs. That's how touch typing is supposed to work. For a person with 10 functional fingers that is.

just too much for me to re-learn typing with minimal returns
someone needs to make an aussie keyboard community called QMƎɹ┴⅄. get it? haha :D

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6227 on: Wed, 10 January 2024, 06:51:31 »

to re-learn typing


Honestly, it is hard for me to imagine a style of "typing" that does not utilize the the thumbs on the space bar.

What do they do? Or are they simply sidelined?
State Freedom Caucus News 2024
Missouri state Senator Nick Schroer sponsors a bill that would allow senators to duel one another — in the Senate chambers! – legally.

Offline mohawk1367

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6228 on: Wed, 10 January 2024, 08:06:50 »

to re-learn typing


Honestly, it is hard for me to imagine a style of "typing" that does not utilize the the thumbs on the space bar.

What do they do? Or are they simply sidelined?

nothing lol they just chill unless im playing a game then my left thumb is jump like everyone else
someone needs to make an aussie keyboard community called QMƎɹ┴⅄. get it? haha :D

Offline bkrownd

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6229 on: Wed, 10 January 2024, 16:31:21 »

  I hope they're teaching typing in school at a younger age these days so kids don't stick to improvised bad habits.  It's painful to watch my dad do the hunt-and-peck thing his entire life because they didn't teach typing to boys in the era he was in school. 

Offline TomahawkLabs

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6230 on: Wed, 10 January 2024, 16:35:18 »

to re-learn typing


Honestly, it is hard for me to imagine a style of "typing" that does not utilize the the thumbs on the space bar.

What do they do? Or are they simply sidelined?

nothing lol they just chill unless im playing a game then my left thumb is jump like everyone else

This hurts my brain. I don't use any other digit on my spacebar than my thumbs.
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Offline bkrownd

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6231 on: Wed, 10 January 2024, 16:46:36 »

This hurts my brain. I don't use any other digit on my spacebar than my thumbs.

I'm guessing it starts with people who have to look at the keys pulling their hands back to see them.

Offline mohawk1367

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6232 on: Thu, 11 January 2024, 08:09:30 »

  I hope they're teaching typing in school at a younger age these days so kids don't stick to improvised bad habits.  It's painful to watch my dad do the hunt-and-peck thing his entire life because they didn't teach typing to boys in the era he was in school.

they are. the first typing class i can remember was probably around 5th or 6th grade but i had been typing since the age of 2 so it was still late for me
someone needs to make an aussie keyboard community called QMƎɹ┴⅄. get it? haha :D

Offline iri

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6233 on: Fri, 12 January 2024, 18:08:23 »
Ah, typing classes!

305536-0
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline Souffle

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6234 on: Sat, 13 January 2024, 05:10:28 »

  I hope they're teaching typing in school at a younger age these days so kids don't stick to improvised bad habits.  It's painful to watch my dad do the hunt-and-peck thing his entire life because they didn't teach typing to boys in the era he was in school.

I agree with this. We were never taught how to type correctly at school. I hit around 120 WPM average, which is fine, but I'm not typing correctly. However, complete computer illiteracy is a bigger problem that seems to be creeping up. Kids are turning 12 and still don't know how to create a folder on Windows. I don't work in the education sector, but some friends do. Most kids are alright with it, but the only exposure for some seems to be phones, tablets and consoles. So it's not their fault, but it's pretty alarming that they are not being exposed to such vital equipment. I wonder what's going on at the elementary/primary level for that to happen.

Offline bkrownd

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6235 on: Sat, 13 January 2024, 15:22:47 »

Keyboarding class was my worst grades in high school.  I got a C- or maybe even a D+.  I was only good at subjects where "winging it" could succeed, and keyboarding took practice LOL.  But like most of school keyboarding class created an ergonomic foundation I was able to build on later when I started working on the computer in undergrad.  (It's far more about ergonomics and efficiency than "WPM")



Offline Souffle

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6236 on: Sat, 13 January 2024, 16:10:56 »

Keyboarding class was my worst grades in high school.  I got a C- or maybe even a D+.  I was only good at subjects where "winging it" could succeed, and keyboarding took practice LOL.  But like most of school keyboarding class created an ergonomic foundation I was able to build on later when I started working on the computer in undergrad.  (It's far more about ergonomics and efficiency than "WPM")
We were never taught proper keyboard skills. Most of our lessons were on how to use Windows shortcuts rather than proper typing. Ergonomics were never mentioned for us.

Offline bkrownd

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6237 on: Sat, 13 January 2024, 17:11:33 »
We were never taught proper keyboard skills. Most of our lessons were on how to use Windows shortcuts rather than proper typing. Ergonomics were never mentioned for us.

It was an elective class for us, so maybe 20% of our school took Keyboarding class.  Which was entirely on typewriters BTW - hammers hitting ink ribbon onto manually fed sheets of paper - whack whack zhhht DING!  :D  Even fewer students took the Programming elective, but the glorious modern Apple ][e computers were so expensive not everyone could get into Programming class. 

Offline marksen

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6238 on: Sun, 14 January 2024, 06:38:07 »
Emacs uses control-FBPN for cursor movement, because Richard Stallman hates you.

  • Forward, Back, Previous, Next are easy mnemonics.
  • Every Emacser makes their own bindings anyway.
  • But yes, Richard Stallman does hate you/everyone.

Offline iri

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6239 on: Sun, 14 January 2024, 08:39:14 »
  • Every Emacser makes their own bindings anyway.
For the movement? I use the default ones.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline bkrownd

  • Posts: 281
Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6240 on: Mon, 15 January 2024, 01:36:45 »

I'm happy to say that EMACS was banned from our machines long ago for being a resource hog.  VIM forever! 

Offline Demonseed Elite

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6241 on: Mon, 15 January 2024, 17:18:12 »
Bah... Nano FTW.   ;D

Offline mohawk1367

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6242 on: Tue, 16 January 2024, 06:38:54 »
Ah, typing classes!

(Attachment Link)

we used a thing called Type to Learn or something like that with weird little cartoon people. i think you're older than I am lol

Edit: nvm apparently Type to Learn is over 30 years old and its just had multiple versions
someone needs to make an aussie keyboard community called QMƎɹ┴⅄. get it? haha :D

Offline mohawk1367

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6243 on: Tue, 16 January 2024, 06:40:43 »

Keyboarding class was my worst grades in high school.  I got a C- or maybe even a D+.  I was only good at subjects where "winging it" could succeed, and keyboarding took practice LOL.  But like most of school keyboarding class created an ergonomic foundation I was able to build on later when I started working on the computer in undergrad.  (It's far more about ergonomics and efficiency than "WPM")

I didn't have it in hs but in middle school it was one of my worst (though it didn't matter cuz middle school grades barely affected anything) because didn't do anything and our teacher barely cared. we all just played Minecraft together or other games
someone needs to make an aussie keyboard community called QMƎɹ┴⅄. get it? haha :D

Offline TWX

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6244 on: Thu, 15 February 2024, 20:17:22 »
Bah... Nano FTW.   ;D

Now listen here, n00b...   ;D

In all seriousness I used pico/nano for 20 years before I needed to do massive amounts of regular expression parsing, typically as a result of taking network device mgmt console output and working with it.  I planned a network switch lifecycle project spending around $10,000,000 across more than 700 telecom closets where I had to gather information on total port usage, PoE usage, PoE type, etc, where the existing switching topology had been haphazardly upgraded or supplemented.

vi made it very easy to take the captures that my scripts collected, process those into CSVs, and import them into spreadsheets in a way that let me save probably $3,000,000 compared to if we had done what a consultant recommended, which would have been replacing like with like without consideration for usage, density existing port count, etc.  I could never have done that regular expression work in pico/nano.

Admittedly I've never used EMACS, but every time I heard about this-or-that feature added to it, it reminded me of 4DOS and the integration of a bunch of crap into something that didn't need it.  I'd heard people say of EMACS, "It's a great operating system, but a ****ty editor."
TWX
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Offline mohawk1367

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6245 on: Fri, 16 February 2024, 06:43:58 »

Keyboarding class was my worst grades in high school.  I got a C- or maybe even a D+.  I was only good at subjects where "winging it" could succeed, and keyboarding took practice LOL.  But like most of school keyboarding class created an ergonomic foundation I was able to build on later when I started working on the computer in undergrad.  (It's far more about ergonomics and efficiency than "WPM")

I didn't have it in hs but in middle school it was one of my worst (though it didn't matter cuz middle school grades barely affected anything) because didn't do anything and our teacher barely cared. we all just played Minecraft together or other games
i was still typing over 120 wpm at the time though since i had been learning years earlier on my own (but i do type "improperly")
someone needs to make an aussie keyboard community called QMƎɹ┴⅄. get it? haha :D

Offline TimeRelapse

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6246 on: Tue, 20 February 2024, 23:11:12 »
Kohaku is a mid board, pretty weight but that's about it to me... I also don't enjoy 65% layouts so I guess that's probably part of the cause as well

Offline sarahn27

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #6247 on: Tue, 12 March 2024, 14:37:27 »
Favorite layout is a 96%  :-X