Post by: senter on Sat, 27 July 2019, 09:51:46
(https://i.imgur.com/X1s8kZr.jpg)
In the past three months, we put in a lot of efforts to investigate new materials,
finishes, structures, and to improve the quality of the keyboard cases.
Now we present the Key board, namely Key 65 to you.
Key 65 is the first 65% custom keyboard kit designed by Fox Lab.
What’s new?
- Three-layers structure (see details below)
- Gasket mount plate + gasket between mid and bottom chassis (see details below)
- G10 case option * (TBD)
- POM case option ** (TBD)
- Pattern welded steel weight *** (TBD)
- New electrophoresis colors: E-yellow and more
- Titanium plate: the memory metal with incredible yield strength and elastic limit
- Foam board between the plate and the PCB
* G10 is a composite material. It's commonly used for high-end knife handles and pipes.
** Acetal, the material used for switch stems.
*** The modern Damascus steel
Improvements
- E-coating: In the previous GBs, people were annoyed by the E-coating residues around the screw holes. We noticed the problem and found a way to solve it. In the following new designs, we will add additional holes inside the case especially for the anodizing holders. All the screw holes won’t be used as the hook points anymore. They will be blocked by rubber sticks during the anodizing/E-coating.
- Brass parts: PVD brass was a long term headache for us. After the Leaf 60 GB, we sold around 80 lbs of scrapped brass parts to the recycle center. The quality of PVD was very difficult to control. We cannot solve it, so we found an alternative solution. E-coating brass parts will be available. It's not a perfect solution because you won't get the shiny finish like with PVD. It's a practical solution though because the quality will be consistent.
Top right logo version
(https://i.imgur.com/5y9RcAU.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/EjaqDG8.jpg)
Top right blank version
(https://i.imgur.com/XJn9lVg.jpg)
old renders:
More
(https://i.imgur.com/UzquXw4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AMY9Hvx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/MnEg6E1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/zdsWJ3u.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AMY9Hvx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/MnEg6E1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/zdsWJ3u.jpg)
The structure
We knew the seamless design is popular recently but we decided to do the opposite. We adopt the three-layer case with the gasket mount plate. The three-layer structure is similar to E6-V2 but with improvements. The seamless design is clean, elegant, but a little dull. By contrast, the three-layer design enables more possibilities on the colors, materials, and the combinations of them (e.g. three layers of aluminum, three layers of PC, mid alu, mid PC).
(https://i.imgur.com/JwefSGu.jpg)
The gasket mount solution has been refined. The long strips of gaskets on Leaf60 has been changed to smaller pieces. We also lengthen the tabs on the plate. All the changes make the plate more flexible and the sound more delightful. The soft plates can accentuate the small bump on weak tactile switches such as white omron B3g-S. Additionally, we added gaskets between the middle case and the bottom chassis in order to reduce the potential resonance. Last but not least, there will be optional foam plates between the PCB and the plate to reduce the ping.
Plate Layouts
(https://i.imgur.com/ByWUlIO.jpg)
7u spacebar version plate. The Win key and top right key are optional depending on the top case layout.
(https://i.imgur.com/SWzCDvs.jpg)
6.25u spacebar + split spacebar version plate. The top right key is optional depending on the top case layout.
I'm still working on the ALPS plate layout.
Estimated price for the basic kit (all alu/PC): $295
What do you think about the new features and the improvements?
What other features and improvements you wish to see?
Please let me know because that's very important to us.
Change log:
Jul 30:
- The logo on the top right corner is removed. New renders will be updated soon.
- WKL left blocker top case option is added.
Aug 17:
1. New logo
(https://i.imgur.com/zqywuB2.jpg)
I came up with the idea when I was working on the Fox Lab rebranding.
You might have noticed the new Fox Lab logo on my avatar. It can be read as Fox or f(x).
Similarly, the new logo showing above can be read as Fox while the shape of it is a key.
There's an F above, an O below, and an X inside the O.
A separate version without the top left logo will also be provided. A key will replace the Key.
2. The name of this kit is changed to Key 65. Now it's a Key board :)
3. The weight will also use the new Key logo.
There's also an alternative option. It's an engraved Chinese/Kanji character 键/鍵 which means Key in English.
(https://i.imgur.com/7rl51AR.jpg)
Which one is better?
Prototyping has been finished.
(https://i.imgur.com/3ynIsjj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dzr8zu3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ff0NjBU.jpg)
GB will start on 25th this month and last 2 weeks.
Post by: Abdallah9 on Sat, 27 July 2019, 09:54:39
Post by: Abec13 on Sat, 27 July 2019, 09:55:24
Post by: gnhuy91 on Sat, 27 July 2019, 09:56:41
Post by: cijanzen on Sat, 27 July 2019, 09:56:50
Post by: TheMnBN on Sat, 27 July 2019, 09:57:02
Post by: SolidCactus on Sat, 27 July 2019, 10:03:14
Post by: ubmit on Sat, 27 July 2019, 10:06:56
Post by: zekth on Sat, 27 July 2019, 10:12:34
Possibility of split spacebar/backspace support?
Post by: Sissy on Sat, 27 July 2019, 10:15:55
would like to see a green/purple
Post by: FluffyWasTaken on Sat, 27 July 2019, 10:16:45
Post by: _ODIN_ on Sat, 27 July 2019, 10:16:45
Either way I am really interested.
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Post by: appaboy on Sat, 27 July 2019, 10:20:42
Post by: moonux on Sat, 27 July 2019, 10:21:07
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Post by: o3okevin on Sat, 27 July 2019, 10:25:40
Post by: Depresso-the-clown on Sat, 27 July 2019, 10:29:37
Post by: Zilleon on Sat, 27 July 2019, 10:30:47
I love the blue color and the mounting system looks pretty cool.
The logo is kinda killing it for me though, not sure why, maybe the font?
Would love to see split spacebar too :)
Post by: pixelpusher on Sat, 27 July 2019, 10:33:55
Post by: Pennywise359 on Sat, 27 July 2019, 10:34:38
EDIT: It would be nice to have RGB pcb with underglow since there is going to be PC version.
Post by: chriszhu on Sat, 27 July 2019, 10:36:42
Post by: Jinnnxxu on Sat, 27 July 2019, 10:45:16
Post by: datfroyodoe on Sat, 27 July 2019, 10:47:49
New materials and finishes are very nice. The price is nice, too. I personally don’t like the NR logo. The serif font looks generic and out of place on a modern keyboard.Yea the NR logo feels like an odd choice. Maybe it might help if we knew what it stood for
Post by: Visionaire on Sat, 27 July 2019, 10:49:37
I really dig the overall design, but that logo in a corner throws me off the text is too plain and not aesthetically pleasing, it looks really good on the weight but I do not think it is the best option for top right corner. Overall this project looks very exciting, I am very interested in G10 and PC.
EDIT: It would be nice to have RGB pcb with underglow since there is going to be PC version.
Agree, the branding is unattractive imo
Choose another theme / item to attach (like the Leaf) to the branding / badge. Something simple and clean.
Post by: lolafineday on Sat, 27 July 2019, 10:50:25
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Post by: AlbinoJellyfish on Sat, 27 July 2019, 10:59:11
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Post by: Visionaire on Sat, 27 July 2019, 11:00:48
Need this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ****!
Given your signature, I see you throw the word 'need' around pretty carelessly. ;)
Post by: Riskymilk on Sat, 27 July 2019, 11:03:21
Post by: DAzz on Sat, 27 July 2019, 11:10:55
Post by: ramblinrose on Sat, 27 July 2019, 11:13:52
Post by: victorpre on Sat, 27 July 2019, 11:14:34
Not a big fan of the NR logo's font,
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Post by: Vireca on Sat, 27 July 2019, 11:17:26
Post by: Vigrith on Sat, 27 July 2019, 11:19:38
2. Colours? I really wanna know what e-coating can do.
3. Love it. Great job on the price as always.
Given your signature, I see you throw the word 'need' around pretty carelessly. ;)
Seems expected from someone who feels the need to mention x28 next to a given board.
Post by: Mcnos on Sat, 27 July 2019, 11:50:14
Just not digging that NR Logo much
Post by: sever on Sat, 27 July 2019, 12:16:13
Post by: Flubby on Sat, 27 July 2019, 12:19:11
Either way, I'm in
Post by: orim23 on Sat, 27 July 2019, 12:42:16
Post by: im_hide on Sat, 27 July 2019, 12:57:33
edit: Not saying it's a deal-breaker for me, just that it feels a bit out of place to me.
Post by: rowie on Sat, 27 July 2019, 13:20:38
Post by: bobdenard on Sat, 27 July 2019, 14:07:14
Post by: Starston3 on Sat, 27 July 2019, 14:11:49
Post by: PotatoTM on Sat, 27 July 2019, 14:14:04
Post by: Obe on Sat, 27 July 2019, 14:14:38
Post by: Valian on Sat, 27 July 2019, 14:26:19
Post by: Faust_ on Sat, 27 July 2019, 14:34:08
Otherwise looks super awesome!
Post by: pixelpusher on Sat, 27 July 2019, 14:41:58
NR in braille:
⠝⠗
Post by: 8six753o9 on Sat, 27 July 2019, 14:50:59
Post by: AcidBrain on Sat, 27 July 2019, 15:00:36
Post by: dannyny on Sat, 27 July 2019, 16:55:30
Post by: killuchen on Sat, 27 July 2019, 16:57:30
Post by: loviniltra on Sat, 27 July 2019, 17:04:30
Post by: cronohack on Sat, 27 July 2019, 17:18:20
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Sat, 27 July 2019, 17:18:39
New materials and finishes are very nice. The price is nice, too. I personally don’t like the NR logo. The serif font looks generic and out of place on a modern keyboard.
These are my thoughts exactly
Agree, the branding is unattractive imo
Choose another theme / item to attach (like the Leaf) to the branding / badge. Something simple and clean.
Also agree with this, I think the Leaf logo would look so much better than the NR
Post by: SoraNoTenshi on Sat, 27 July 2019, 17:45:24
Sounds like something new to me.
Post by: finalarcadia on Sat, 27 July 2019, 17:49:17
Post by: vicissitude on Sat, 27 July 2019, 17:52:15
very interested.
Post by: evorus5 on Sat, 27 July 2019, 18:01:07
Back lit leaf would be nice.
Or leaf plate to match the bottom plate. Brass, pvd etc
Another option that you can explore is maybe a fox silhouette to brand your board that is engraved into the top case or even as a removable piece like the NR logo.
Post by: frankyusa0409 on Sat, 27 July 2019, 18:44:43
Post by: Cresc3nt on Sat, 27 July 2019, 18:49:14
Post by: rope on Sat, 27 July 2019, 19:11:18
Post by: audax989 on Sat, 27 July 2019, 19:49:54
Post by: Vigrith on Sat, 27 July 2019, 20:06:40
Post by: EMC Labs on Sat, 27 July 2019, 20:42:37
Post by: phunktional on Sat, 27 July 2019, 21:08:08
Post by: PikaJoyce on Sat, 27 July 2019, 21:21:50
Post by: ghstgrl on Sat, 27 July 2019, 21:30:08
Post by: gxtcha on Sat, 27 July 2019, 21:48:24
WKL option?
Post by: fractl on Sat, 27 July 2019, 23:16:25
Personally, I like the final column, from top to bottom, to be Home, End, Page Up, Page Down, and the right arrow key. So, apart from not liking the logo in the upper right, it also prevents me from having the layout I prefer. Meaning that I would prefer an extra key as opposed to a logo I don't care for.
I don't expect things to be changed for my preferences, but you asked for opinions and responses, and this is just what I feel personally.
I don't mind the logo on the back, however. And I'm interested in what other e-colors will be available.
Post by: skrunk on Sun, 28 July 2019, 00:46:27
Are the different colored top frame and bottom case official? I dig the black and pink one.
Post by: Slimjim095 on Sun, 28 July 2019, 01:53:20
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Post by: skrunk on Sun, 28 July 2019, 02:10:46
I've always wanted to get a Fox Lab board, and 65% is my favorite form factor. But I really don't like the logo. I hope you reconsider it. I agree that a more simple symbol would be nice. Maybe if you have to go with "NR" you could use braille :)
NR in braille:
⠝⠗
Hmm, braille on the blocker sounds pretty awesome. The bumps on that blocker might feel and look good! ;D
Post by: Unity on Sun, 28 July 2019, 02:27:29
Post by: Lil on Sun, 28 July 2019, 02:35:54
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Post by: cronohack on Sun, 28 July 2019, 02:40:28
I've always wanted to get a Fox Lab board, and 65% is my favorite form factor. But I really don't like the logo. I hope you reconsider it. I agree that a more simple symbol would be nice. Maybe if you have to go with "NR" you could use braille :)
NR in braille:
⠝⠗
Hmm, braille on the blocker sounds pretty awesome. The bumps on that blocker might feel and look good! ;D
Agree, the braille looks great!
Post by: japanesehorrorwriter on Sun, 28 July 2019, 03:23:46
Post by: Williamsson on Sun, 28 July 2019, 06:58:27
I've always wanted to get a Fox Lab board, and 65% is my favorite form factor. But I really don't like the logo. I hope you reconsider it. I agree that a more simple symbol would be nice. Maybe if you have to go with "NR" you could use braille :)
NR in braille:
⠝⠗
+1 for braille instead or just the reuse the leaf from the other boards, would look so much better! :thumb:
Post by: xantiema on Sun, 28 July 2019, 07:05:11
Post by: Incarnius26 on Sun, 28 July 2019, 11:07:43
This keyboard design is on point. However, if that logo was a symbol or more aesthetic it would be so much more attractive. (Imagine if it were a leaf for example?) this board has potential senter. That logo on the top right needs work however. If this was named Leaf 65 with leaf branding it would look a thousand times better imo. For example imagine if the Kyuu had a bland font and letters on the right blocker, it would be a less sought after board imo. (You get the idea).I really agree. If that logo could have a more attractive design, this would be endgame level for me
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Post by: sapphyr on Sun, 28 July 2019, 11:27:29
Post by: xef on Sun, 28 July 2019, 12:40:17
Post by: BfGiant on Sun, 28 July 2019, 13:14:14
Post by: Keebo on Sun, 28 July 2019, 14:51:42
Also split backspace is a necessity. Please consider adding split backspace compatibility.
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Post by: xantiema on Sun, 28 July 2019, 15:22:28
Post by: Hokabuki on Sun, 28 July 2019, 19:08:31
Post by: evorus5 on Sun, 28 July 2019, 21:15:50
And these logos could be a plate that is inter changeable or even like the back of the Leaf60.
I'd be all over it... Buying two. Lol
Post by: BserLarry on Sun, 28 July 2019, 21:40:23
Post by: hypnocandy on Sun, 28 July 2019, 21:51:22
I'd love to see a white and purple color option
Yessss. I second
Post by: jimboytacos on Sun, 28 July 2019, 22:47:21
Would love to see a blocker-less top.
Yess! This. I'd love to have a real function key instead of a corner blocker. Although pretty, it's of no use to me.
Please have an option for a no blocker kit.
Post by: sachin3767 on Mon, 29 July 2019, 05:00:59
Would love to see a blocker-less top.
Yess! This. I'd love to have a real function key instead of a corner blocker. Although pretty, it's of no use to me.
Please have an option for a no blocker kit.
Yes, I agree or for a potentiometer but it needs to be classier looking to fit in with this board.
NR still means nothing as it hasn't been explained. I also prefer the fox logo.
Would be good to know what layouts will be supported on PCB and plate.
Post by: eskimojo on Mon, 29 July 2019, 08:10:45
Post by: happycamper87 on Mon, 29 July 2019, 09:45:51
Post by: Dennyroxsox on Mon, 29 July 2019, 11:05:25
The NR logo seems off though. Are there other design possibilities?
Post by: Marutks on Mon, 29 July 2019, 17:49:42
I hope it supports split backspace. Logo is fine by me.
Post by: infinitykw on Mon, 29 July 2019, 21:52:08
Post by: npc dad on Mon, 29 July 2019, 23:37:58
Post by: senter on Tue, 30 July 2019, 07:15:11
Post by: senter on Tue, 30 July 2019, 07:26:07
In!
Possibility of split spacebar/backspace support?
Love the gaskets! Would like to see split bs option as well
Any support for split spacebar or backspace?
Either way, I'm in
I'd like to provide two PCB versions as we did before.
One version will be the HS MX switch version, regular 2u BS adn 7u spacebar.
Another version will be the non-HS, multiple layouts supporting, ALPS (and maybe more) switches supporting version. I like split spacebar so definitely yes for it. Not sure about split BS.
Post by: Vireca on Tue, 30 July 2019, 07:40:52
The logo on the top right corner will be removed. New renders will be coming soon. Stay tuned.Are you going to remake it or remove it completly? I like the 65% boards with those logos, it a beautiful way to brand them
Post by: senter on Tue, 30 July 2019, 07:41:38
I was planning on getting an e-yellow Polaris, but prefer 65% boards, so this may change my mind.
Personally, I like the final column, from top to bottom, to be Home, End, Page Up, Page Down, and the right arrow key. So, apart from not liking the logo in the upper right, it also prevents me from having the layout I prefer. Meaning that I would prefer an extra key as opposed to a logo I don't care for.
I don't expect things to be changed for my preferences, but you asked for opinions and responses, and this is just what I feel personally.
I don't mind the logo on the back, however. And I'm interested in what other e-colors will be available.
Polaris is a great board. Kevin and Ai have good taste. I may get a Polaris as well.
TBH I didn't like the NR logo. Fox lab is not just me tho and my partner insisted on the logo. I'm glad he admits he's wrong now.
E-black, E-white, E-red will all be available like before. You already know how E-yellow looks. Here are two other colors I prototyped before.
(https://i.imgur.com/NgUfwAY.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/q3EJYqz.jpg)
Post by: senter on Tue, 30 July 2019, 07:43:50
The logo on the top right corner will be removed. New renders will be coming soon. Stay tuned.Are you going to remake it or remove it completly? I like the 65% boards with those logos, it a beautiful way to brand them
I personally want to remove it and make it a key or rotary encoder.
Post by: senter on Tue, 30 July 2019, 07:55:14
Are you going to be machining blocks of G10, it are you somehow laying it up in the shape of the case?
CNC milling G10 blocks is the plan. The factory told me it will work. We'll decide after we get the prototypes.
Post by: SolidCactus on Tue, 30 July 2019, 07:56:01
The logo on the top right corner will be removed. New renders will be coming soon. Stay tuned.Are you going to remake it or remove it completly? I like the 65% boards with those logos, it a beautiful way to brand them
I personally want to remove it and make it a key or rotary encoder.
Rotary encoder would be awesome in my view!
Also, that e-cyan color looks incredible! I would grab that immediately. Will it be available as part of this buy @senter?
Post by: senter on Tue, 30 July 2019, 07:58:50
Rotary encoder would be awesome in my view!
Also, that e-cyan color looks incredible! I would grab that immediately. Will it be available as part of this buy @senter?
Yes
Post by: ramblinrose on Tue, 30 July 2019, 08:05:22
Post by: Vigrith on Tue, 30 July 2019, 08:10:24
I personally want to remove it and make it a key or rotary encoder.
I personally really like top right branding, I'd really like to see it stay under a different logo if nothing else - I understand if you remove it though of course, and rotary encoders are kinda cool too even though I find them to be a little "flavour of the month" and maybe overdone right now.
None of that is too big of a deal if you offer that Tiffany blue/teal e-coating though, because I'm getting one no matter what if that's offered regardless of what happens with the logo situation.
Post by: dk4one on Tue, 30 July 2019, 08:12:41
Post by: SolidCactus on Tue, 30 July 2019, 08:18:17
Rotary encoder would be awesome in my view!
Also, that e-cyan color looks incredible! I would grab that immediately. Will it be available as part of this buy @senter?
Yes
Awesome, thanks for letting me know. I will grab that color for sure.
Post by: NRbigfoot on Tue, 30 July 2019, 08:32:16
I personally like a logo a lot, just not the "NR" logo. I think a fox of some sort with brass insert is nice. I never like a knob. It looks so intruding. Classic logo with insert is always the best.
I agree about blocker with insert over key/knob, although I didn't mind the NR logo there
Post by: kitty on Tue, 30 July 2019, 08:49:10
Post by: sapphyr on Tue, 30 July 2019, 08:54:05
I personally want to remove it and make it a key or rotary encoder.
option for a key or a rotary encoder would be awesome.
Post by: sachin3767 on Tue, 30 July 2019, 08:56:20
The logo on the top right corner will be removed. New renders will be coming soon. Stay tuned.Are you going to remake it or remove it completly? I like the 65% boards with those logos, it a beautiful way to brand them
I personally want to remove it and make it a key or rotary encoder.
This just made my day.
Not everyone likes the idea of a rotary encoder but I see from the renders that the plate and PCB could have the footprint for it and a brass logo could be inserted if people prefer that.
Post by: sachin3767 on Tue, 30 July 2019, 08:58:29
I'd like to provide two PCB versions as we did before.
One version will be the HS MX switch version, regular 2u BS adn 7u spacebar.
Another version will be the non-HS, multiple layouts supporting, ALPS (and maybe more) switches supporting version. I like split spacebar so definitely yes for it. Not sure about split BS.
Will you support the ISO layout?
Post by: fractl on Tue, 30 July 2019, 09:31:33
The logo on the top right corner will be removed. New renders will be coming soon. Stay tuned.Are you going to remake it or remove it completly? I like the 65% boards with those logos, it a beautiful way to brand them
I personally want to remove it and make it a key or rotary encoder.
If the logo is replaced by an additional key, I will definitely be in. No branding or gimmicks, just the full compliment of keys that makes 65% ideal for me, that would be wonderful. Not to project my desires on others, but I suspect it would suit the largest number of people.
Both hot-swap and split-spacebar PCBs is exciting as well. It would be tempting to get both. I look forward to seeing what the layout options are on the split-spacebar PCB.
What I wouldn't give for two hot-swap PCBs, one with a split spacebar option, like the Clueboard LP. I love that option, but do not find the low-profile Clueboard appealing.
Post by: senter on Tue, 30 July 2019, 09:38:20
Nice to hear about the logo. I'm curious if you have a plan to improve QC with the polycarbonate cases going forward - it looked like there were a number of leaf60 poly cases that were heavily scratched. I'm considering a poly board as a lighter option to bring to work so am curious :)
Thanks for bringing this up. We're always improving the QC. However, it's also true that oversight happens, especially when there are too many orders and too many options. Instead of desperately trying to improve the QC, I try to improve the quality from the root. Take PVD finish as an example, I would abandon this finish completely and use other finishes which are much easier to be made perfectly. The anodizing holes and rubber inserts mentioned in the OP are for the same logic.
The scratches on several PC Leaf60 was another story. There were 4 or 5 PC cases didn't come out good originally. They turned into good shape after wet sanding. Apparently, they are not good after completely drying. Now I learned that PC cases must be made perfect in the first place.
Another potential issue of PC you didn't mention is the warping on top cases. Some PC leaf60 top cases were slightly warped. I shipped out them as A-stock cause they are good after screws are fastened. There were no serious complaints about this afaik. Some people are not completely happy tho. I haven't found a good solution for this expect QC. I will declare this issue to those who still want the PC case in this GB.
Post by: victorpre on Tue, 30 July 2019, 09:47:22
Please, make a rotary encoder.The logo on the top right corner will be removed. New renders will be coming soon. Stay tuned.Are you going to remake it or remove it completly? I like the 65% boards with those logos, it a beautiful way to brand them
I personally want to remove it and make it a key or rotary encoder.
How about the logo in the back, does that remain?
No chances of changing the font or style?
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Post by: senter on Tue, 30 July 2019, 09:52:34
The logo version still needs a logo design. For this specific design, I personally like it to be simple and am not passionate about the logo design. I've put most of my effort on the material experimenting and structure design. More suggestions will be appreciated.
Post by: orim23 on Tue, 30 July 2019, 09:54:33
Also, rotary or a small fox logo would be great!
Post by: neutralstate on Tue, 30 July 2019, 09:58:44
Guys. Given the diverse opinions towards the top-right logo/key, I may provide both. The no-logo top case will have WKL option but the logo top will not. I don't want to make 4 versions of the top case LOL
The logo version still needs a logo design. For this specific design, I personally like it to be simple and am not passionate about the logo design. I've put most of my effort on the material experimenting and structure design. More suggestions will be appreciated.
awesome, definitely in for one with a logo!
Post by: Incarnius26 on Tue, 30 July 2019, 10:01:06
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Post by: dk4one on Tue, 30 July 2019, 10:03:49
Guys. Given the diverse opinions towards the top-right logo/key, I may provide both. The no-logo top case will have WKL option but the logo top will not. I don't want to make 4 versions of the top case LOLHow about the reverse? WKL with logo and non-WKL with knob? :cool:
The logo version still needs a logo design. For this specific design, I personally like it to be simple and am not passionate about the logo design. I've put most of my effort on the material experimenting and structure design. More suggestions will be appreciated.
Post by: prototype26 on Tue, 30 July 2019, 10:12:15
Post by: ramblinrose on Tue, 30 July 2019, 10:27:48
Nice to hear about the logo. I'm curious if you have a plan to improve QC with the polycarbonate cases going forward - it looked like there were a number of leaf60 poly cases that were heavily scratched. I'm considering a poly board as a lighter option to bring to work so am curious :)
Thanks for bringing this up. We're always improving the QC. However, it's also true that oversight happens, especially when there are too many orders and too many options. Instead of desperately trying to improve the QC, I try to improve the quality from the root. Take PVD finish as an example, I would abandon this finish completely and use other finishes which are much easier to be made perfectly. The anodizing holes and rubber inserts mentioned in the OP are for the same logic.
The scratches on several PC Leaf60 was another story. There were 4 or 5 PC cases didn't come out good originally. They turned into good shape after wet sanding. Apparently, they are not good after completely drying. Now I learned that PC cases must be made perfect in the first place.
Another potential issue of PC you didn't mention is the warping on top cases. Some PC leaf60 top cases were slightly warped. I shipped out them as A-stock cause they are good after screws are fastened. There were no serious complaints about this afaik. Some people are not completely happy tho. I haven't found a good solution for this expect QC. I will declare this issue to those who still want the PC case in this GB.
Good to know - I appreciate the thorough response.
Post by: Vireca on Tue, 30 July 2019, 10:28:38
Are you going to be machining blocks of G10, it are you somehow laying it up in the shape of the case?
CNC milling G10 blocks is the plan. The factory told me it will work. We'll decide after we get the prototypes.
How is the G10 finish? Are you going yo show any prototype? Never saw a board with that material
Post by: Cresc3nt on Tue, 30 July 2019, 10:37:45
Post by: neutralstate on Tue, 30 July 2019, 11:09:17
Post by: PikaJoyce on Tue, 30 July 2019, 11:21:15
I love the idea of a mini fox logo instead of a rotary encoder.+1 not the hugest fan of a rotary encoder, so having the option with or without it would be nice!
Post by: Butterface23 on Tue, 30 July 2019, 11:33:01
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Tue, 30 July 2019, 11:39:15
Post by: moonux on Tue, 30 July 2019, 11:49:19
Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk
Post by: Top Gear on Tue, 30 July 2019, 12:28:11
Post by: eyedrop on Tue, 30 July 2019, 12:37:23
Post by: fractl on Tue, 30 July 2019, 12:58:19
What about that (x) on your avatar as the logo?
That's the 'o' and the 'x' from Fox, with the 'f' before it. I like the design as well, but wouldn't that be calling the keyboard an 'ox'?
Post by: ptrick3 on Tue, 30 July 2019, 15:35:55
Post by: bobgr8 on Tue, 30 July 2019, 16:02:20
But this would be $30 (price difference) + $40 (shipping) + whatever Indian customs charges me more expensive than Polaris.
Is it possible to lower the price?
Post by: Slimjim095 on Tue, 30 July 2019, 16:27:16
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: dk4one on Tue, 30 July 2019, 16:56:48
Post by: o3okevin on Tue, 30 July 2019, 19:23:57
Post by: prototype26 on Tue, 30 July 2019, 19:36:13
Post by: evorus5 on Tue, 30 July 2019, 20:15:19
Post by: Kingjunguhn on Tue, 30 July 2019, 22:20:17
Post by: steviechungus on Tue, 30 July 2019, 22:30:41
Post by: PotatoTM on Tue, 30 July 2019, 23:57:55
Post by: snaranda0305 on Wed, 31 July 2019, 01:24:27
Post by: 0x2a on Wed, 31 July 2019, 02:06:25
Post by: Vadurr on Wed, 31 July 2019, 02:24:36
Post by: SoraNoTenshi on Wed, 31 July 2019, 03:53:28
+to fox from my side, too! :)
Post by: orim23 on Wed, 31 July 2019, 04:30:29
+ 1 fox logo
will look better and cleaner than a rotary encoder.
Post by: sachin3767 on Wed, 31 July 2019, 05:28:03
but on a serious note, I don't see it as a FOTM because it's been around for years. The first time I got into mech keyboards was when I saw the DAS keyboards, just the full size wasn't for me. I very quickly came across GH and custom boards.
aesthetically it can be done really well, take the Satisfaction 75 and VN66 as an example and look at the timberwolf renders. I guess it is a matter of opinion.
I also appreciate that QMK needs to go some way before we can go beyond just volume control. I'd hope to think we can do other things with it, such as video or music editing, photo editing - similar to the ideas of the surface dial. But I digress.
Post by: orim23 on Wed, 31 July 2019, 06:21:09
boo, you knobby haters!!Agreed, rotary can be done nicely. its just that i dont see that happening with the current design of the "fox65". a rotary would need some blank space around it to look god.
but on a serious note, I don't see it as a FOTM because it's been around for years. The first time I got into mech keyboards was when I saw the DAS keyboards, just the full size wasn't for me. I very quickly came across GH and custom boards.
aesthetically it can be done really well, take the Satisfaction 75 and VN66 as an example and look at the timberwolf renders. I guess it is a matter of opinion.
I also appreciate that QMK needs to go some way before we can go beyond just volume control. I'd hope to think we can do other things with it, such as video or music editing, photo editing - similar to the ideas of the surface dial. But I digress.
Post by: dk4one on Wed, 31 July 2019, 06:31:09
+1 Logo all the way. And please, toss in WKL as an option :)
Post by: Sissy on Wed, 31 July 2019, 07:15:37
Post by: sapphyr on Wed, 31 July 2019, 07:46:40
I liked the NR logo and would much prefer having a logo there over a key or just blank, my biggest dislike of 65 and 75% boards is how they tend to look like a block of chocolate if it is all just keys.
you say it like that's a bad thing. :eek:
Post by: BserLarry on Wed, 31 July 2019, 09:52:04
I think a slider would be a better aesthetic because it is less obstructive in appearance.
But ultimately, I’d much prefer a simple leaf / fox logo (keeps the cost down too, I see this as a simple beautiful no-frills I pay for what I need board)
Post by: Pennywise359 on Wed, 31 July 2019, 12:34:45
Post by: Keebo on Wed, 31 July 2019, 12:54:53
Oh I almost forgot to mention split Bs is a must have!
Yes, agreed. This really is a dealbreaker.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: orim23 on Wed, 31 July 2019, 13:02:42
+ 1 for split backspaceOh I almost forgot to mention split Bs is a must have!
Yes, agreed. This really is a dealbreaker.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: xantiema on Wed, 31 July 2019, 13:08:48
Post by: Slimjim095 on Thu, 01 August 2019, 02:29:02
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: dgNam on Thu, 01 August 2019, 02:39:26
Post by: ghstgrl on Thu, 01 August 2019, 10:58:53
If you intend on keeping NR (since it is the name of the board) I'd suggest finding a better font and design for the logo or you can even use a fox logo which I think would be pretty popular if it's well designed.
Anyhow I am torn between this and the Iron165 but it looks like even the SE of that one will be out of my price range so I'm leaning towards getting this. Looking forward to it :llama:
Post by: fractl on Thu, 01 August 2019, 14:25:19
Post by: GRWLKG on Thu, 01 August 2019, 16:06:02
NR65 sort of threw me off due to the lack of subtlety with the logo. I hope that the updated version will simply have a blank (I hope that's what "logo removed" means and not replaced by anything else). The bezels have a high level of contrast to add enough sophistication to the overall look and feel, and I think that a blank will give it some breathing room.
Either way, I believe senter will make the right decision. Thank you for preparing for this awesome run! I can finally stop looking for a white leaf60 in the aftermarket :)
Post by: whitty on Thu, 01 August 2019, 21:37:33
Post by: ae on Fri, 02 August 2019, 01:24:57
Post by: Faust_ on Sat, 03 August 2019, 05:03:39
Post by: vaughno on Sat, 03 August 2019, 10:59:30
Post by: bobgr8 on Sat, 03 August 2019, 11:53:32
Post by: Vadurr on Sat, 03 August 2019, 20:32:49
would it be possible to lower the price?
Well thats a first :))
Post by: narunekogi on Sun, 04 August 2019, 05:43:48
Post by: MacSurfy on Sun, 04 August 2019, 06:08:00
Post by: Mcnos on Sun, 04 August 2019, 14:23:56
I will now be looking forward to this as I love the design.
Post by: bobgr8 on Sun, 04 August 2019, 15:06:53
would it be possible to lower the price?
Well thats a first :))
Torn between this and Polaris, Price would be the deciding factor
Post by: vaughno on Sun, 04 August 2019, 17:01:57
I trust fox lab more just with things in the past morewould it be possible to lower the price?
Well thats a first :))
Torn between this and Polaris, Price would be the deciding factor
Post by: fractl on Sun, 04 August 2019, 18:42:20
would it be possible to lower the price?
Well thats a first :))
Torn between this and Polaris, Price would be the deciding factor
I will need to replace my car soon. If things worked this way, instead of buying the right car in my price range, I'd love to pick something more expensive and ask them to lower the price, because price would be my deciding factor. If only life worked that way.
Post by: Vigrith on Sun, 04 August 2019, 21:18:03
I will need to replace my car soon. If things worked this way, instead of buying the right car in my price range, I'd love to pick something more expensive and ask them to lower the price, because price would be my deciding factor. If only life worked that way.
Are you trying to say Tesla aren't going to be lowering their prices to ensure that I, the single most important individual in the world despite only being 1 out of their millions of customers, can purchase a Model 3 instead of the PT Cruiser that I can actually afford?
I'm really not sure how they think they can possibly compete with Chrysler.
Post by: bobgr8 on Mon, 05 August 2019, 07:06:57
would it be possible to lower the price?
Well thats a first :))
Torn between this and Polaris, Price would be the deciding factor
I will need to replace my car soon. If things worked this way, instead of buying the right car in my price range, I'd love to pick something more expensive and ask them to lower the price, because price would be my deciding factor. If only life worked that way.
That's exactly how the market works, sellers gauges the demand, and buyers gauge whether the price is right for them or not.
Or I could try being smart, with an anecdote and come out looking like I don't understand the market.
I don't expect the average internet user to be educated enough to understand basic economics, but I expect them to mind their own business. Here is a cartoon to make it easy for you to understand the basics:
Post by: prototype26 on Mon, 05 August 2019, 08:22:10
I will need to replace my car soon. If things worked this way, instead of buying the right car in my price range, I'd love to pick something more expensive and ask them to lower the price, because price would be my deciding factor. If only life worked that way.
Are you trying to say Tesla aren't going to be lowering their prices to ensure that I, the single most important individual in the world despite only being 1 out of their millions of customers, can purchase a Model 3 instead of the PT Cruiser that I can actually afford?
I'm really not sure how they think they can possibly compete with Chrysler.
Because mech keyboards group buys and car market are totally the same thing! Am I smart yet?
Post by: Vigrith on Mon, 05 August 2019, 08:51:18
Because mech keyboards group buys and car market are totally the same thing! Am I smart yet?
No
Post by: lewisflude on Mon, 05 August 2019, 09:37:22
Post by: Vigrith on Mon, 05 August 2019, 09:44:24
I know others have said it, but just as some critical feedback, the logo on the back seems a bit uninspired and this board would be better off without it, or maybe a new monogram? I think it might be worth trialing out a few alternatives out with the community?
Senter mentioned the corner logo is to be replaced with something else (another logo or alternatively just not having one at all) so I assume that also means the back one is to be replaced to match whatever they end up going with for the corner top.
Post by: Zeldris23 on Mon, 05 August 2019, 12:09:43
Post by: SirWalross on Mon, 05 August 2019, 14:18:25
Post by: evorus5 on Mon, 05 August 2019, 15:12:35
Debating between this as poly or polaris poly
Post by: sapphyr on Tue, 06 August 2019, 15:33:15
Post by: Egobean on Tue, 06 August 2019, 15:58:02
Post by: Dennyroxsox on Tue, 06 August 2019, 16:14:44
what is the price range for this keyboard
From the OP:
Estimated price for the basic kit (all alu/PC): $295
Post by: xantiema on Tue, 06 August 2019, 17:42:26
what is the price range for this keyboard
From the OP:
Estimated price for the basic kit (all alu/PC): $295
Fantastic pricepoint
Post by: roguesystem087 on Tue, 06 August 2019, 19:40:55
Its also unfortunate that you guys can't do the PVD brass weight :(
But damn... your price point is spot on
Post by: Puddsy on Tue, 06 August 2019, 19:41:38
Post by: fractl on Wed, 07 August 2019, 02:01:59
would it be possible to lower the price?
Well thats a first :))
Torn between this and Polaris, Price would be the deciding factor
I will need to replace my car soon. If things worked this way, instead of buying the right car in my price range, I'd love to pick something more expensive and ask them to lower the price, because price would be my deciding factor. If only life worked that way.
That's exactly how the market works, sellers gauges the demand, and buyers gauge whether the price is right for them or not.
Or I could try being smart, with an anecdote and come out looking like I don't understand the market.
I don't expect the average internet user to be educated enough to understand basic economics, but I expect them to mind their own business. Here is a cartoon to make it easy for you to understand the basics:
I came up with the anecdote because it was by far the most polite way that I could respond to the absurdity of your comment while resisting the temptation to excoriate your self-centered naiveté. I'm sure that I'm more than twice your age, and am familair with economic theory on a spectrum from Hayek to Marx. Not only do I comprehend the nature of capitalist markets, I'm also mature enough to realize that such markets do not respond to the immature requests of individuals who are entitled, out-of-touch, and unable to comprehend that the world in general does not place them at their needs above all other societal priorities and cannot discern the difference between a free market and a pampering parent. Your utter puerility was only compounded by the condescension with which you alluded to sub-rudimentary and anecdotal economic concepts as if they were a justification of you immature perspective, as opposed to a confirmation of it. Markets respond to socioeconomic forces on a macro level, and then only sluggishly. The notion that one individual entreating a manufacturer to ignore all of the pragmatic factors that affect their pricing, especially in a specialized area where margins are slim, is as impractical as it is self-centered, given that small-scale specialized production allows none of the leeway in pricing made possible by mass-production. I suppose I could chalk this up to the Dunning–Kruger effect, but I was not initially referring to a lack of metacognition, only to a lack of maturity. Your response, however, is classic, as it attempted to impugn my imagined incomprehension with an argument far more cognitively infantile than the perspective that you mistakenly attributed to me. I suppose I should have simply been less polite and suggested that the sooner you learn that the world doesn't care how spoiled you are the better you will be equipped to handle the myriad instances where life will inevitably and utterly ignore your sense of entitlement.
Post by: Sissy on Wed, 07 August 2019, 02:03:19
love ity-you too.
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 07 August 2019, 09:19:52
would it be possible to lower the price?
Well thats a first :))
Torn between this and Polaris, Price would be the deciding factor
I will need to replace my car soon. If things worked this way, instead of buying the right car in my price range, I'd love to pick something more expensive and ask them to lower the price, because price would be my deciding factor. If only life worked that way.
That's exactly how the market works, sellers gauges the demand, and buyers gauge whether the price is right for them or not.
Or I could try being smart, with an anecdote and come out looking like I don't understand the market.
I don't expect the average internet user to be educated enough to understand basic economics, but I expect them to mind their own business. Here is a cartoon to make it easy for you to understand the basics:
I came up with the anecdote because it was by far the most polite way that I could respond to the absurdity of your comment while resisting the temptation to excoriate your self-centered naiveté. I'm sure that I'm more than twice your age, and am familair with economic theory on a spectrum from Hayek to Marx. Not only do I comprehend the nature of capitalist markets, I'm also mature enough to realize that such markets do not respond to the immature requests of individuals who are entitled, out-of-touch, and unable to comprehend that the world in general does not place them at their needs above all other societal priorities and cannot discern the difference between a free market and a pampering parent. Your utter puerility was only compounded by the condescension with which you alluded to sub-rudimentary and anecdotal economic concepts as if they were a justification of you immature perspective, as opposed to a confirmation of it. Markets respond to socioeconomic forces on a macro level, and then only sluggishly. The notion that one individual entreating a manufacturer to ignore all of the pragmatic factors that affect their pricing, especially in a specialized area where margins are slim, is as impractical as it is self-centered, given that small-scale specialized production allows none of the leeway in pricing made possible by mass-production. I suppose I could chalk this up to the Dunning–Kruger effect, but I was not initially referring to a lack of metacognition, only to a lack of maturity. Your response, however, is classic, as it attempted to impugn my imagined incomprehension with an argument far more cognitively infantile than the perspective that you mistakenly attributed to me. I suppose I should have simply been less polite and suggested that the sooner you learn that the world doesn't care how spoiled you are the better you will be equipped to handle the myriad instances where life will inevitably and utterly ignore your sense of entitlement.
is this pasta?
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 07 August 2019, 09:32:26
Post by: happycamper87 on Wed, 07 August 2019, 11:17:22
Post by: ElNinoJimenez on Wed, 07 August 2019, 18:21:49
Post by: snakeninja110 on Thu, 08 August 2019, 01:42:27
Post by: bobgr8 on Fri, 09 August 2019, 03:51:09
would it be possible to lower the price?
Well thats a first :))
Torn between this and Polaris, Price would be the deciding factor
I will need to replace my car soon. If things worked this way, instead of buying the right car in my price range, I'd love to pick something more expensive and ask them to lower the price, because price would be my deciding factor. If only life worked that way.
That's exactly how the market works, sellers gauges the demand, and buyers gauge whether the price is right for them or not.
Or I could try being smart, with an anecdote and come out looking like I don't understand the market.
I don't expect the average internet user to be educated enough to understand basic economics, but I expect them to mind their own business. Here is a cartoon to make it easy for you to understand the basics:
I came up with the anecdote because it was by far the most polite way that I could respond to the absurdity of your comment while resisting the temptation to excoriate your self-centered naiveté. I'm sure that I'm more than twice your age, and am familair with economic theory on a spectrum from Hayek to Marx. Not only do I comprehend the nature of capitalist markets, I'm also mature enough to realize that such markets do not respond to the immature requests of individuals who are entitled, out-of-touch, and unable to comprehend that the world in general does not place them at their needs above all other societal priorities and cannot discern the difference between a free market and a pampering parent. Your utter puerility was only compounded by the condescension with which you alluded to sub-rudimentary and anecdotal economic concepts as if they were a justification of you immature perspective, as opposed to a confirmation of it. Markets respond to socioeconomic forces on a macro level, and then only sluggishly. The notion that one individual entreating a manufacturer to ignore all of the pragmatic factors that affect their pricing, especially in a specialized area where margins are slim, is as impractical as it is self-centered, given that small-scale specialized production allows none of the leeway in pricing made possible by mass-production. I suppose I could chalk this up to the Dunning–Kruger effect, but I was not initially referring to a lack of metacognition, only to a lack of maturity. Your response, however, is classic, as it attempted to impugn my imagined incomprehension with an argument far more cognitively infantile than the perspective that you mistakenly attributed to me. I suppose I should have simply been less polite and suggested that the sooner you learn that the world doesn't care how spoiled you are the better you will be equipped to handle the myriad instances where life will inevitably and utterly ignore your sense of entitlement.
Apparently I'm too young to read all that copy-Pasta.
I would say.
1. Use paras for better readability.
2. IMHO better to compare Marx and Adam Smith, and Hayek with Keynes (but ok I get it, you know 2 of the most famous economist, but they are from a different time, so IMHO it's unfair to compare them, when better comparisons exist)
3. I'm self- centred, immature etc etc etc. Isn't that the market? markets work at individual capacities
4. You have quoted your comprehension of Hayek, but Hayek rejects "planned economies" and proposes individuals are best left to themselves to make "rational choices" in the free market. what you have suggested is a road to serfdom. aka socio-economic factors. In the words of Hayek, it's a "mirage". Seems your comprehension is poor.
5. that brings me to this hobby. Most of which is snake oil.(as is with all hobbies)
6. Canoe keyboard clearly shows the markup these products have, all I said is I feel the price should be lowered.
7. About my entitlement: I never said "lower it for me, or I won't buy it". I have only said I feel like it should be lowered.
8. Any "mature" person "twice" as old as me, should have understood it, and moved on.
9. Assuming you're a male (No sexism) a gentleman minds his own business. It's not classy or respectful to comment on persons you don't know about. I have responded for my own respect.
10. As per the dunning Kruger effect, I'm certainly in the centre (wrt this hobby). Low skills and low confidence, but your "maturity" is certainly at the lower end of skill and higher end of "confidence".
11. what I don't understand is why are all of you flipped? All I said is I think the price can be lowered, and if that's entitlement to you, I would just like to quote Robert Nozick, who has given the Entitlement theory of Justice. In State, utopia and anarchy.
I do not wish to engage with you, a person who cannot mind his own business, isn't worth talking to. I feel like I've hit some sort of sensitive spot for your insecurities. By all means spend that money, spend more. In the consumeristic societies, material wealth is the source of happiness. (though I would say as Marx has said, it leads to alienation, but whatever, I'm on a high end custom keyboard form)
Also for the love of God, make you point quick. All I see is a rant, with an attempt to look cool again, missing the point. I would also like to quote Eric From, that you have the fear of freedom. Stuck in your anachronistic ways, unable to mind your own business.
Post by: sevenseacat on Fri, 09 August 2019, 04:04:56
Post by: break on Fri, 09 August 2019, 14:06:54
would it be possible to lower the price?
Well thats a first :))
Torn between this and Polaris, Price would be the deciding factor
But one board is a 60% and another is a 65%. They're different products. $30 seems about right to cover the difference?
Also lol @ seeing keyboard fans argue by citing Hayek and Marx, didn't know I stumbled into the Marginal Revolution comments over here.
Post by: Egobean on Fri, 09 August 2019, 21:29:37
Post by: bobgr8 on Sat, 10 August 2019, 06:48:54
would it be possible to lower the price?
Well thats a first :))
Torn between this and Polaris, Price would be the deciding factor
But one board is a 60% and another is a 65%. They're different products. $30 seems about right to cover the difference?
Also lol @ seeing keyboard fans argue by citing Hayek and Marx, didn't know I stumbled into the Marginal Revolution comments over here.
You are right, but $40 shipping makes it $70 more expensive (+ taxes in my country suck).
But, I see this is a well priced board, and mostly I'll get in at $300. But I still wish it could be a bit cheaper (the shipping tho)
Post by: happycamper87 on Mon, 12 August 2019, 08:33:13
Post by: Mcnos on Mon, 12 August 2019, 10:54:28
Post by: Arithmetics on Mon, 12 August 2019, 16:53:26
edit: nevermind, actually read the thread. think your main post should get updated with PCB plans. :)
Post by: loud_asian on Tue, 13 August 2019, 01:24:56
Any new renders with the logo removed?
Just imagine it without the letters lmao
Post by: Solotov on Tue, 13 August 2019, 02:51:15
Post by: Mcnos on Tue, 13 August 2019, 19:18:07
Any new renders with the logo removed?
Just imagine it without the letters lmao
Well I thought the render would be replaced lol.
I wouldn't really want a board that has just a blank space blocking a key.
Post by: hessianlobo on Thu, 15 August 2019, 05:54:01
Post by: NoxNoxNox on Fri, 16 August 2019, 07:40:26
Post by: ramblinrose on Fri, 16 August 2019, 08:25:55
Post by: LazyJackfruit on Fri, 16 August 2019, 21:11:00
Post by: senter on Sat, 17 August 2019, 12:44:23
1. New logo
(https://i.imgur.com/zqywuB2.jpg)
I came up with the idea when I was working on the Fox Lab rebranding.
You might have noticed the new Fox Lab logo on my avatar. It can be read as Fox or f(x).
Similarly, the new logo showing above can be read as Fox while the shape of it is a key.
There's an F above, an O below, and an X inside the O.
A separate version without the top
2. The name of this kit is changed to Key 65. Now it's a Key board :)
3. The weight will also use the new Key logo.
There's also an alternative option. It's an engraved Chinese/Kanji character 键/鍵 which means Key in English.
(https://i.imgur.com/7rl51AR.jpg)
Which one is better?
4. Plate layouts have been updated in OP. ALPS plate layout is TBD. I'm considering to support the ALPS XDA caps (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/cr07fk/alps_xda_on_epink_leaf60_info_in_comments/).
Post by: chakkii on Sat, 17 August 2019, 12:53:55
Post by: Lil on Sat, 17 August 2019, 13:05:33
Post by: _ODIN_ on Sat, 17 August 2019, 13:07:02
Gesendet von meinem H8416 mit Tapatalk
Post by: vtachkov on Sat, 17 August 2019, 13:37:10
Post by: Subaeru on Sat, 17 August 2019, 13:49:18
Post by: pixelpusher on Sat, 17 August 2019, 13:50:44
Post by: pixelpusher on Sat, 17 August 2019, 13:52:36
I like the idea but I'm worried this might be too similar to Keycult's brand, which also has a key for a logo.
I see what you’re saying, but I honestly don’t understand keycult’s logo at all. This one actually makes sense to me.
Post by: sachin3767 on Sat, 17 August 2019, 13:53:31
How about plate and PCB ISO Support?
Post by: victorpre on Sat, 17 August 2019, 14:12:09
Update:Thanks for hearing our feedback, loved the new logo.
1. New logoShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/zqywuB2.jpg)
I came up with the idea when I was working on the Fox Lab rebranding.
You might have noticed the new Fox Lab logo on my avatar. It can be read as Fox or f(x).
Similarly, the new logo showing above can be read as Fox while the shape of it is a key.
There's an F above, an O below, and an X inside the O.
A separate version without the top left logo will also be provided. A key will replace the Key.
2. The name of this kit is changed to Key 65. Now it's a Key board :)
3. The weight will also use the new Key logo.
There's also an alternative option. It's an engraved Chinese/Kanji character 键/鍵 which means Key in English.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/7rl51AR.jpg)
Which one is better?
4. Plate layouts have been updated in OP. ALPS plate layout is TBD. I'm considering to support the ALPS XDA caps (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/cr07fk/alps_xda_on_epink_leaf60_info_in_comments/).
Imo, I prefer the key logo than the kanji
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Post by: vidoardes on Sat, 17 August 2019, 14:20:06
Post by: iridescent22 on Sat, 17 August 2019, 14:25:11
Sorry am new don't know how to do quote thing.
Post by: Incarnius26 on Sat, 17 August 2019, 16:34:37
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: nicx on Sat, 17 August 2019, 16:49:15
Post by: Mekuno on Sat, 17 August 2019, 16:51:01
Post by: jimboytacos on Sat, 17 August 2019, 16:52:11
The NR logo, although not amazing in itself, looked better.
Post by: vheissu on Sat, 17 August 2019, 17:10:00
iso support?This.
Post by: Puddsy on Sat, 17 August 2019, 17:11:02
iso support?This.
your location says bay area why would you want ISO
Post by: Cresc3nt on Sat, 17 August 2019, 17:41:08
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Sat, 17 August 2019, 17:54:25
I personally like the key logo a lot more than NR so this is fine for me. I would have personally preferred an actual fox or leaf logo.
^^
Post by: PikaJoyce on Sat, 17 August 2019, 18:11:54
Post by: Pluto19 on Sat, 17 August 2019, 18:15:42
Not gonna lie, I think the new logo looks worse. And it's even worse when you also have another player (Keycult) in the community who uses a "key" as it's company logo.
The NR logo, although not amazing in itself, looked better.
A leaf logo from previous keyboard would have looked pretty sweet for the corner. Just saying ;)
I personally like the key logo a lot more than NR so this is fine for me. I would have personally preferred an actual fox or leaf logo.All of this.
I imagine it's like a rough draft of a logo for a collaboration between Keycult and the X-Men.
Post by: nhkmoon on Sat, 17 August 2019, 18:34:53
Post by: vheissu on Sat, 17 August 2019, 18:55:51
iso support?This.
your location says bay area why would you want ISO
Cuz I prefer ISO, don't know what does my location have to do with the layout I use.
Post by: Sissy on Sat, 17 August 2019, 19:26:17
but I had no problem at all with the original.
Post by: skrunk on Sat, 17 August 2019, 19:37:36
Post by: Solotov on Sat, 17 August 2019, 20:08:20
I know there is an option to replace the logo with the normal key instead. But if possible, I would love to have a really nice logo there.
If this is not a final decision yet, would it be better if you post several logo designs here and let's see which one everyone likes the most.
Post by: evorus5 on Sat, 17 August 2019, 20:37:39
Sold on this one. Good job Fox Lab!
Post by: Kingjunguhn on Sat, 17 August 2019, 20:43:17
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Post by: ramblinrose on Sat, 17 August 2019, 20:49:32
Post by: mlnr on Sat, 17 August 2019, 21:49:07
Post by: suacide on Sat, 17 August 2019, 23:24:06
Post by: Solotov on Sat, 17 August 2019, 23:26:13
Post by: ilemondrop on Sat, 17 August 2019, 23:26:30
Post by: Popopro on Sat, 17 August 2019, 23:49:19
Post by: GRWLKG on Sun, 18 August 2019, 00:20:04
1. leaf65 and use a leaf as the logo + weight. might be a little tricky because of how thin the leaf stem is
2. you mentioned the rebrand can be read as "f of x" as in the function of x. a simple ƒ could suffice, and it could also be used on the weight
my 2 cents
Post by: flying1911 on Sun, 18 August 2019, 00:35:40
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Sun, 18 August 2019, 00:39:59
I like this logo better than the "NR" for sure, but I don't think it's quite there yet. I think part of the reason is because it doesn't efficiently use the space, it's too narrow. I honestly think it'd be best to just put "Key65" in a non-serif font in the top right. Actually, I like "Fox Lab" or "Fox" better. Just please use a non-serif font, I think all lowercase would look even better, like "foxlab" or "fox.lab"
Yeah I think maybe just a plain font 'FOX' cutout would look really good there.
Post by: Wobafet on Sun, 18 August 2019, 01:28:10
Post by: beekey on Sun, 18 August 2019, 02:47:57
I still think you should put the leaf to continue the theme of the leaf boards+1
Post by: SUB01 on Sun, 18 August 2019, 04:01:04
Post by: Kasterborous on Sun, 18 August 2019, 04:32:29
Post by: bobdenard on Sun, 18 August 2019, 04:44:50
Post by: SoraNoTenshi on Sun, 18 August 2019, 05:23:35
Oh and welded Steel.
I am pretty sure most of the people here will like this board a lot!!!
Post by: happycamper87 on Sun, 18 August 2019, 07:43:00
Post by: moonux on Sun, 18 August 2019, 09:25:40
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Post by: xef on Sun, 18 August 2019, 09:49:25
I really like the suggestion of the kanji character on the blocker instead. But as someone else pointed out it has a lot of strokes and isn't that clean. If you were to move the character to the blocker, maybe a much simpler one could be used. I really like the ketsu kanji for "missing" or "lack of" and I think it's fitting for a blocker space. :p
(https://i.imgur.com/p7OOXKo.png)
Even the leaf from previous boards would look really nice too. Either way though I think it currently looks great as is and will be buying.
Post by: Rob27shred on Sun, 18 August 2019, 10:25:32
I think the new design is a big improvement and I will be in either way, but I get why people don't like this logo either.
I really like the suggestion of the kanji character on the blocker instead. But as someone else pointed out it has a lot of strokes and isn't that clean. If you were to move the character to the blocker, maybe a much simpler one could be used. I really like the ketsu kanji for "missing" or "lack of" and I think it's fitting for a blocker space. :pShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/p7OOXKo.png)
Even the leaf from previous boards would look really nice too. Either way though I think it currently looks great as is and will be buying.
I think that would look infinitely better than the new Fox Lab logo on top of the case IMO. I mean the new logo isn't terrible (I personally don't like it, but respect the fact they do & want that to be their logo from now on), but I will always prefer branding that is done inconspicuously vs conspicuously.
Post by: Dennyroxsox on Sun, 18 August 2019, 11:32:09
Post by: senter on Sun, 18 August 2019, 14:31:54
Glad the logo has changed. Much prefer the kanji character on both the kb top and on the weight.
How about plate and PCB ISO Support?
iso support?
PCB wise, ISO layout is supported. I don't plan to add ISO support on the plates.
I can share the plate file if someone needs.
Post by: senter on Sun, 18 August 2019, 14:34:17
I prefer key logo on the back. Btw you said "A separate version without the top left logo will also be provided. A key will replace the Key. " Did u mean top right?
Sorry am new don't know how to do quote thing.
You're right. Thanks for catching the mistake. It's corrected now.
Post by: vtachkov on Sun, 18 August 2019, 18:59:05
Post by: Incarnius26 on Sun, 18 August 2019, 18:59:23
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Post by: vaughno on Sun, 18 August 2019, 20:19:09
Really would have been sold if it just had something small like a number
Post by: chakkii on Sun, 18 August 2019, 22:39:39
Glad the logo has changed. Much prefer the kanji character on both the kb top and on the weight.
How about plate and PCB ISO Support?iso support?
PCB wise, ISO layout is supported. I don't plan to add ISO support on the plates.
I can share the plate file if someone needs.
So ISO supported on PCB and not for plates? What plates should I use then? any recommendations or compatibility list? or does "any" standard 65 plate will work?
Post by: Zeldris23 on Mon, 19 August 2019, 01:15:42
Post by: Howser on Mon, 19 August 2019, 03:50:51
[attachimg=1]
Post by: packleadercho on Mon, 19 August 2019, 03:51:00
The new key logo is nice no doubt but it's not really exciting to me since the key imagery is already being used by Keycult. Let me be clear: the logo design is certainly distinct enough from Keycult's and other keyboard companies are entitled to use key related logo. I'm fine with this being on the back of the board.
I'm only saying that I would've liked to see a logo that takes inspiration from anything else. I get that a key is a great candidate for a keyboard company's logo since it's a nod to the product and the image of a key is instantly recognizable; the f(x) reference is a nice touch too. With that said, it's like seeing an electronics company enter the market with an apple as its logo a year after Apple already got established. The design of this new company's apple logo would certainly be different enough from Apple's but consumers have already associated the image of an apple with the company who laid claim to it first.
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Post by: Solotov on Mon, 19 August 2019, 06:56:19
Post by: SoraNoTenshi on Mon, 19 August 2019, 07:43:19
I think I prefer the Chinese character over the key logo. I know people have noted that the multiple strokes make it look less streamlined but that's actually the main appeal for me. The numerous strokes makes the character more visually interesting imo.
The new key logo is nice no doubt but it's not really exciting to me since the key imagery is already being used by Keycult. Let me be clear: the logo design is certainly distinct enough from Keycult's and other keyboard companies are entitled to use key related logo. I'm fine with this being on the back of the board.
I'm only saying that I would've liked to see a logo that takes inspiration from anything else. I get that a key is a great candidate for a keyboard company's logo since it's a nod to the product and the image of a key is instantly recognizable; the f(x) reference is a nice touch too. With that said, it's like seeing an electronics company enter the market with an apple as its logo a year after Apple already got established. The design of this new company's apple logo would certainly be different enough from Apple's but consumers have already associated the image of an apple with the company who laid claim to it first.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
I actually somewhat second this, i thought at first that this looks very similar to keycult - nonetheless i like the new logo, and would preferr the kanji, too!
Post by: Vigrith on Mon, 19 August 2019, 08:14:54
Post by: Zuology on Mon, 19 August 2019, 08:23:34
I think the originality and simplicity of the synergy between the name and design language was the beauty in the Orange, Time, and Leaf. The name of the board was very clearly represented in the weight/accent design. Never was there a need to put the Fox name in logo or text on those.
The key logo puts the Fox name on the board where it doesn't need it, and previous boards didn't either. Other "brands" are too concerned with putting their name in a very obvious place and it makes the keyboard feel less premium, IMO. I have a lot of respect for senter/runninghack, but this direction is not in line with what I have come to expect from them.
Overall/In general, I like the F(x) logo. The fox-key logo looks unfinished and doesn't show much thought or design. The Kanji logo risks blending in with other designs that I've seen in the past, and comes off as a bit of an easy out.
Edit: Saw the plate cutouts logo version and actually much prefer this over the current key design. I shortened up the fangs on the F, and it doesn't look so disproportionate. Also, keeping it in this sideways orientation makes it less obvious and glaring that you are looking at a giant letter F. Also, the segments/cutouts are very reminiscent of the Orange and Leaf designs with negative space.
Post by: Hokabuki on Mon, 19 August 2019, 09:13:42
Actually, your logo is pretty good. Can’t you just use it directly instead of the key design?I much prefer this logo as well. It’s clean, small, and gets the FOX brand front and center.
Post by: Sissy on Mon, 19 August 2019, 09:49:07
I am an OG Fox Labs owner, with an Orange TKL that I still hold dearly in my collection, though my tastes and preferences have changed.I like the edit you did and prefer it sideways ,it's doesn't look like a male gender symbol or Xman logo.
I think the originality and simplicity of the synergy between the name and design language was the beauty in the Orange, Time, and Leaf. The name of the board was very clearly represented in the weight/accent design. Never was there a need to put the Fox name in logo or text on those.
The key logo puts the Fox name on the board where it doesn't need it, and previous boards didn't either. Other "brands" are too concerned with putting their name in a very obvious place and it makes the keyboard feel less premium, IMO. I have a lot of respect for senter/runninghack, but this direction is not in line with what I have come to expect from them.
Overall/In general, I like the F(x) logo. The fox-key logo looks unfinished and doesn't show much thought or design. The Kanji logo risks blending in with other designs that I've seen in the past, and comes off as a bit of an easy out.
Edit: Saw the plate cutouts logo version and actually much prefer this over the current key design. I shortened up the fangs on the F, and it doesn't look so disproportionate. Also, keeping it in this sideways orientation makes it less obvious and glaring that you are looking at a giant letter F. Also, the segments/cutouts are very reminiscent of the Orange and Leaf designs with negative space.
Post by: beekey on Mon, 19 August 2019, 10:04:03
I am an OG Fox Labs owner, with an Orange TKL that I still hold dearly in my collection, though my tastes and preferences have changed.This flipped vertically, would make it again f(x) and keeps the key symbol.
I think the originality and simplicity of the synergy between the name and design language was the beauty in the Orange, Time, and Leaf. The name of the board was very clearly represented in the weight/accent design. Never was there a need to put the Fox name in logo or text on those.
The key logo puts the Fox name on the board where it doesn't need it, and previous boards didn't either. Other "brands" are too concerned with putting their name in a very obvious place and it makes the keyboard feel less premium, IMO. I have a lot of respect for senter/runninghack, but this direction is not in line with what I have come to expect from them.
Overall/In general, I like the F(x) logo. The fox-key logo looks unfinished and doesn't show much thought or design. The Kanji logo risks blending in with other designs that I've seen in the past, and comes off as a bit of an easy out.
Edit: Saw the plate cutouts logo version and actually much prefer this over the current key design. I shortened up the fangs on the F, and it doesn't look so disproportionate. Also, keeping it in this sideways orientation makes it less obvious and glaring that you are looking at a giant letter F. Also, the segments/cutouts are very reminiscent of the Orange and Leaf designs with negative space.
Post by: biothermal on Mon, 19 August 2019, 10:15:54
it's doesn't look like a male gender symbol or Xman logo.+1
Post by: ghstgrl on Mon, 19 August 2019, 10:33:20
Post by: R0N1N on Mon, 19 August 2019, 19:17:23
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Post by: cronohack on Mon, 19 August 2019, 22:42:52
Post by: orim23 on Tue, 20 August 2019, 01:08:31
I... actually don't like the new logo compared to the NR. I agree with some of the others that it looks like a male gender symbol/xmen symbol and flat out 'it doesn't stand out' stance. If this board isn't going to have a special theme like Clock, Orange, Leaf, I really think a nicer 'Key' or 'f(x)' symbol would be better. Or perhaps a stylized fox - the animal - logo? This current logo feels a lot like something one would whip up in Powerpoint using the shapes and text tools you have in Microsoft Office. imo compared with a lot of the other boards coming out the logo for this one is weak. I understand this isn't a super high end luxury board like Iron165 or the higher end Chimera 65 (the cannon logo is really awesome imo) or the 7V (whose design is nice but the layout is not what I'm looking for) but compared to previous Fox Labs works it's really underwhelming.+1 this. I was hoping for an actual fox or a leaf.
Post by: R0N1N on Tue, 20 August 2019, 01:30:38
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Post by: prototype26 on Tue, 20 August 2019, 02:37:08
This one is way worse though. I suggest picking leaf or fox logo instead.
Post by: xantiema on Tue, 20 August 2019, 05:41:39
Post by: mrpetrov on Tue, 20 August 2019, 08:18:17
Nothing about the new logo is even remotely similar to Keycult's logo except for the fact that they are both a key.
This one is way worse though. I suggest picking leaf or fox logo instead.
So they are nothing alike except they both look like the same thing (a key)...?! Umm...
Separately, I am not a huge fan of the new logo in any case (sorry!), but I actually don’t mind the one flipped on the side etc. the F(x) is better too, imho.
Post by: Vigrith on Tue, 20 August 2019, 08:47:46
Makes perfect sense.
Post by: prototype26 on Tue, 20 August 2019, 11:53:55
Nothing about the new logo is even remotely similar to Keycult's logo except for the fact that they are both a key.
This one is way worse though. I suggest picking leaf or fox logo instead.
So they are nothing alike except they both look like the same thing (a key)...?! Umm...
Separately, I am not a huge fan of the new logo in any case (sorry!), but I actually don’t mind the one flipped on the side etc. the F(x) is better too, imho.
They don't look like the same thing. I never said that but maybe I need to clarify. They are indeed the same object but design wise they are totally different.
Post by: KingOfMemes on Tue, 20 August 2019, 11:55:27
Post by: steezkeez on Tue, 20 August 2019, 11:56:55
Post by: otanishock on Tue, 20 August 2019, 12:19:18
Post by: sevenseacat on Tue, 20 August 2019, 21:55:01
Post by: Kingjunguhn on Tue, 20 August 2019, 22:16:36
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Post by: Vireca on Wed, 21 August 2019, 02:17:31
Post by: Kingjunguhn on Wed, 21 August 2019, 02:19:00
I like the Key lobo but its a but weird off centered. Forma the kanji/chinese logo, i dont like it. It dont mean anything forma me, just a random asian lettersDon't let the weebs catch you saying that they might go haywire lol
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Post by: chakkii on Wed, 21 August 2019, 10:15:29
Post by: Zuology on Wed, 21 August 2019, 10:57:39
logo is absolutely fine imo, I rather waiting for reply for the ISO plate support. Because PCB does support ISO but no plate? what plate should I use then or ISO only plateless?
Getting custom plates cut after the fact is not difficult at all, if the designer is willing to share plate files, or at least the stock dimensions.
Post by: chakkii on Wed, 21 August 2019, 11:22:51
logo is absolutely fine imo, I rather waiting for reply for the ISO plate support. Because PCB does support ISO but no plate? what plate should I use then or ISO only plateless?
Getting custom plates cut after the fact is not difficult at all, if the designer is willing to share plate files, or at least the stock dimensions.
I honestly have no clue where I can get custom plates done :P So I rather have it directly from the "vendor" / designer. do you have any suggestions?
Post by: Zuology on Wed, 21 August 2019, 11:27:34
logo is absolutely fine imo, I rather waiting for reply for the ISO plate support. Because PCB does support ISO but no plate? what plate should I use then or ISO only plateless?
Getting custom plates cut after the fact is not difficult at all, if the designer is willing to share plate files, or at least the stock dimensions.
I honestly have no clue where I can get custom plates done :P So I rather have it directly from the "vendor" / designer. do you have any suggestions?
There's a number of options available, depending on your budget and location in the world. Would advise creating another topic/post about this question, and fielding answers separately outside of this thread. Lasergist, Laserboost, Big Blue Saw, etc. I find that if enough people are interested in a custom plate, better to run a side group order to get quantities up for lower cost.
Post by: loud_asian on Wed, 21 August 2019, 11:59:50
I like the Key lobo but its a but weird off centered. Forma the kanji/chinese logo, i dont like it. It dont mean anything forma me, just a random asian letters
I don't like your profile picture, it doesn't mean anything to me. It's just a random wolf.
Just because it holds no meaning to you does not mean that it has no value to the creator.
Post by: KingOfMemes on Wed, 21 August 2019, 12:38:58
Username checks outI like the Key lobo but its a but weird off centered. Forma the kanji/chinese logo, i dont like it. It dont mean anything forma me, just a random asian letters
I don't like your profile picture, it doesn't mean anything to me. It's just a random wolf.
Just because it holds no meaning to you does not mean that it has no value to the creator.
Post by: !Q on Wed, 21 August 2019, 17:20:58
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Post by: PikaJoyce on Wed, 21 August 2019, 17:25:47
Would have genuinely loved it a lot if it was a nicely stylized f(x) but not a fan of the key logo :/This is actually a really good suggestion. A stylistic f(x) might be better than a key which many of claimed to be too similar to the keycult logo.
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Post by: Kokaloo on Wed, 21 August 2019, 17:47:19
Post by: phlux on Wed, 21 August 2019, 18:51:47
Really like the board, and would be delighted to have an unbranded option if this logo sticks.
Post by: Simplixity on Thu, 22 August 2019, 03:08:11
Post by: senter on Thu, 22 August 2019, 14:15:02
(https://i.imgur.com/pK4Rtt7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/o5cp1hc.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tcD6URk.jpg)
I'm sure many people won't agree but I incline to the view that art is subjective. The logo design was a headache to me because I"m not an artist and graphic design is really not my forte. Even worse, I was trying to make a logo that can please everyone including myself. Now I understand that's not possible. People from different backgrounds have different opinions. I've heard it's related to a concept called Construal level (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construal_level_theory). Take foreign-language tattoo as an example, some Chinese characters the westerners think cool may look very silly by Chinese people, even if the syntax is correct. In the Key logo, some people mentioned that the X looks like the X-men logo. I've watched X-men movies many times but I didn't realize it until double-check. I was just not sensitive to the X-men's X because English is not my native tongue. To be honest, the top right corner logos on several other 65% kits don't look good to me as well. Sorry, I'm not gonna name them BTW. Some even look very stupid to me. Similarly, I have mixed feelings about the popular katakana sub-legends on many keysets. What makes these things good design? Apparently, the katakana sub-legends are not practically useful. Are popular designs objectively good or just suitable for the correct group of people? These questions have been puzzled me for quite some time now.
Anyway, the 6 versions of top case options should satisfy many of you, definitely not all of you though. I'm pretty happy with the Key logo so I'll keep it. It looks simple but believe me I put a lot of thoughts into it.
At the end of the day, the logo is just a logo. It may make mundane objects seem sophisticated and alluring, but it doesn't change what the keyboard is. I wouldn't even add a logo there if I knew it can cause so many conflicting viewpoints.
Again, I'm not an artist. Even the decisions are made, I'm open for comments about what I said.
Post by: ramblinrose on Thu, 22 August 2019, 14:36:04
Post by: Poblopuablo on Thu, 22 August 2019, 15:22:51
I love the key design (+1 from me) :) I love the new design over the "NR" logo.
Yeah, you can never please everyone. But I appreciate what you have done and thank you for all the effort. (For whatever my appreciation and thanks are worth... Idk ;p)
Thank you :D
Post by: Cresc3nt on Thu, 22 August 2019, 16:03:50
Post by: o3okevin on Thu, 22 August 2019, 16:15:29
Post by: SoraNoTenshi on Thu, 22 August 2019, 17:03:35
For everyone wondering...
The Setup planned for this board is the following:
GMK Vaporwave with Hiragana Alphas
Vint. Cherry Blacks (lubed, either 3204 / 205g0)
for the colours... i will have to see what the options gonna be. but yeah i am really happy with the finalized logo options!
Post by: zekth on Thu, 22 August 2019, 17:40:32
Post by: Lil on Thu, 22 August 2019, 22:07:13
Post by: Solotov on Thu, 22 August 2019, 22:41:48
I'll definitely go for PC + letter top + key logo weight + wk. :p
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Fri, 23 August 2019, 00:39:07
Any updates on POM and G10 case option, or Pattern Welded Steel Weight?
Post by: jimboytacos on Fri, 23 August 2019, 01:09:04
Post by: Kingjunguhn on Fri, 23 August 2019, 01:11:45
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
Post by: skrunk on Fri, 23 August 2019, 02:28:14
I'm sure many people won't agree but I incline to the view that art is subjective. The logo design was a headache to me because I"m not an artist and graphic design is really not my forte. Even worse, I was trying to make a logo that can please everyone including myself. Now I understand that's not possible. People from different backgrounds have different opinions. I've heard it's related to a concept called Construal level (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construal_level_theory). Take foreign-language tattoo as an example, some Chinese characters the westerners think cool may look very silly by Chinese people, even if the syntax is correct. In the Key logo, some people mentioned that the X looks like the X-men logo. I've watched X-men movies many times but I didn't realize it until double-check. I was just not sensitive to the X-men's X because English is not my native tongue. To be honest, the top right corner logos on several other 65% kits don't look good to me as well. Sorry, I'm not gonna name them BTW. Some even look very stupid to me. Similarly, I have mixed feelings about the popular katakana sub-legends on many keysets. What makes these things good design? Apparently, the katakana sub-legends are not practically useful. Are popular designs objectively good or just suitable for the correct group of people? These questions have been puzzled me for quite some time now.
Anyway, the 6 versions of top case options should satisfy many of you, definitely not all of you though. I'm pretty happy with the Key logo so I'll keep it. It looks simple but believe me I put a lot of thoughts into it.
At the end of the day, the logo is just a logo. It may make mundane objects seem sophisticated and alluring, but it doesn't change what the keyboard is. I wouldn't even add a logo there if I knew it can cause so many conflicting viewpoints.
Again, I'm not an artist. Even the decisions are made, I'm open for comments about what I said.
Honestly, the whole redesign thing was ridiculous. Constructive criticism is fine if it concerns the feel of the board or if potential flaws are present, but the aesthetics of the board should always be what the designer has in mind. If you don't like the design, just don't buy the board...
Post by: Xantus on Fri, 23 August 2019, 03:47:26
Post by: Faust_ on Fri, 23 August 2019, 05:13:03
Post by: evorus5 on Fri, 23 August 2019, 13:15:47
I'm sure many people won't agree but I incline to the view that art is subjective. The logo design was a headache to me because I"m not an artist and graphic design is really not my forte. Even worse, I was trying to make a logo that can please everyone including myself. Now I understand that's not possible. People from different backgrounds have different opinions. I've heard it's related to a concept called Construal level (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construal_level_theory). Take foreign-language tattoo as an example, some Chinese characters the westerners think cool may look very silly by Chinese people, even if the syntax is correct. In the Key logo, some people mentioned that the X looks like the X-men logo. I've watched X-men movies many times but I didn't realize it until double-check. I was just not sensitive to the X-men's X because English is not my native tongue. To be honest, the top right corner logos on several other 65% kits don't look good to me as well. Sorry, I'm not gonna name them BTW. Some even look very stupid to me. Similarly, I have mixed feelings about the popular katakana sub-legends on many keysets. What makes these things good design? Apparently, the katakana sub-legends are not practically useful. Are popular designs objectively good or just suitable for the correct group of people? These questions have been puzzled me for quite some time now.
Anyway, the 6 versions of top case options should satisfy many of you, definitely not all of you though. I'm pretty happy with the Key logo so I'll keep it. It looks simple but believe me I put a lot of thoughts into it.
At the end of the day, the logo is just a logo. It may make mundane objects seem sophisticated and alluring, but it doesn't change what the keyboard is. I wouldn't even add a logo there if I knew it can cause so many conflicting viewpoints.
Again, I'm not an artist. Even the decisions are made, I'm open for comments about what I said.
Honestly, the whole redesign thing was ridiculous. Constructive criticism is fine if it concerns the feel of the board or if potential flaws are present, but the aesthetics of the board should always be what the designer has in mind. If you don't like the design, just don't buy the board...
It's a group buy. Won't go anywhere if there is not enough interest...
Post by: 青の空 on Fri, 23 August 2019, 13:21:00
Post by: bobgr8 on Fri, 23 August 2019, 14:32:12
Post by: Kingjunguhn on Fri, 23 August 2019, 14:53:49
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Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Fri, 23 August 2019, 18:09:55
I'm sure many people won't agree but I incline to the view that art is subjective. The logo design was a headache to me because I"m not an artist and graphic design is really not my forte. Even worse, I was trying to make a logo that can please everyone including myself. Now I understand that's not possible. People from different backgrounds have different opinions. I've heard it's related to a concept called Construal level (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construal_level_theory). Take foreign-language tattoo as an example, some Chinese characters the westerners think cool may look very silly by Chinese people, even if the syntax is correct. In the Key logo, some people mentioned that the X looks like the X-men logo. I've watched X-men movies many times but I didn't realize it until double-check. I was just not sensitive to the X-men's X because English is not my native tongue. To be honest, the top right corner logos on several other 65% kits don't look good to me as well. Sorry, I'm not gonna name them BTW. Some even look very stupid to me. Similarly, I have mixed feelings about the popular katakana sub-legends on many keysets. What makes these things good design? Apparently, the katakana sub-legends are not practically useful. Are popular designs objectively good or just suitable for the correct group of people? These questions have been puzzled me for quite some time now.
Anyway, the 6 versions of top case options should satisfy many of you, definitely not all of you though. I'm pretty happy with the Key logo so I'll keep it. It looks simple but believe me I put a lot of thoughts into it.
At the end of the day, the logo is just a logo. It may make mundane objects seem sophisticated and alluring, but it doesn't change what the keyboard is. I wouldn't even add a logo there if I knew it can cause so many conflicting viewpoints.
Again, I'm not an artist. Even the decisions are made, I'm open for comments about what I said.
Honestly, the whole redesign thing was ridiculous. Constructive criticism is fine if it concerns the feel of the board or if potential flaws are present, but the aesthetics of the board should always be what the designer has in mind. If you don't like the design, just don't buy the board...
Well thats kind of the point of an IC isn't it?
Post by: Beatnutz on Sat, 24 August 2019, 00:58:20
I'm sure many people won't agree but I incline to the view that art is subjective. The logo design was a headache to me because I"m not an artist and graphic design is really not my forte. Even worse, I was trying to make a logo that can please everyone including myself. Now I understand that's not possible. People from different backgrounds have different opinions. I've heard it's related to a concept called Construal level (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construal_level_theory). Take foreign-language tattoo as an example, some Chinese characters the westerners think cool may look very silly by Chinese people, even if the syntax is correct. In the Key logo, some people mentioned that the X looks like the X-men logo. I've watched X-men movies many times but I didn't realize it until double-check. I was just not sensitive to the X-men's X because English is not my native tongue. To be honest, the top right corner logos on several other 65% kits don't look good to me as well. Sorry, I'm not gonna name them BTW. Some even look very stupid to me. Similarly, I have mixed feelings about the popular katakana sub-legends on many keysets. What makes these things good design? Apparently, the katakana sub-legends are not practically useful. Are popular designs objectively good or just suitable for the correct group of people? These questions have been puzzled me for quite some time now.
Anyway, the 6 versions of top case options should satisfy many of you, definitely not all of you though. I'm pretty happy with the Key logo so I'll keep it. It looks simple but believe me I put a lot of thoughts into it.
At the end of the day, the logo is just a logo. It may make mundane objects seem sophisticated and alluring, but it doesn't change what the keyboard is. I wouldn't even add a logo there if I knew it can cause so many conflicting viewpoints.
Again, I'm not an artist. Even the decisions are made, I'm open for comments about what I said.
Honestly, the whole redesign thing was ridiculous. Constructive criticism is fine if it concerns the feel of the board or if potential flaws are present, but the aesthetics of the board should always be what the designer has in mind. If you don't like the design, just don't buy the board...
Well thats kind of the point of an IC isn't it?
Exactly.
The problem with this trend of using top blocker logos is that the logo is way too dominant and often designed by someone who is not a graphic designer by profession (at least not a good one). To be quite honest most of them look terrible. So not only did I sacrifice a key, I now have to look at a bad logo whenever I look down on my keyboard.
Nobody buys a keyboard for the logo, so why does it have to be so dominant? This trend doesn't serve anybody but the designer.
The fact that the past 7 pages are pretty much all about the logo and not about the keyboard says something. Personally I don't think the first version was that bad but it was still an easy pass because of the in-your-face branding which I dislike.
I really like this board and feel that it's a shame they discussions derailed but maybe it is a good indication to future GB runners of what not to do. Your keyboard should be about exactly that, not the logo.
Put it on underneath or a tiny one on the side/back if you really need to have it.
Sure we can move on and not buy the keyboard, but it's a shame not to because this one and others are lovely and people are just venting because the branding is is holding them back from committing to the purchase. As long as we're all civil it should be OK. That's what an IC is for.
Post by: jimboytacos on Sat, 24 August 2019, 02:29:42
Get back to basics and focus on what matters, even if it means the removal of that corner blocker which in all honesty, serves no real function other than aesthetics.
Post by: narunekogi on Sat, 24 August 2019, 02:39:56
Post by: Vireca on Sat, 24 August 2019, 02:52:50
Post by: narunekogi on Sat, 24 August 2019, 10:57:56
What means the kanji?
it means 'key'
Post by: SoraNoTenshi on Sat, 24 August 2019, 13:29:24
What means the kanji?
What means the kanji?
it means 'key'
The Kanji pronounced might be: かぎ(Kagi)
Post by: jrs on Sun, 25 August 2019, 12:09:51
Post by: Pach on Sun, 25 August 2019, 12:16:58
Post by: 8bitderp on Sun, 25 August 2019, 14:07:14
Post by: Pennywise359 on Sun, 25 August 2019, 19:35:39
Post by: senter on Sun, 25 August 2019, 19:44:20
I'm sure many people won't agree but I incline to the view that art is subjective. The logo design was a headache to me because I"m not an artist and graphic design is really not my forte. Even worse, I was trying to make a logo that can please everyone including myself. Now I understand that's not possible. People from different backgrounds have different opinions. I've heard it's related to a concept called Construal level (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construal_level_theory). Take foreign-language tattoo as an example, some Chinese characters the westerners think cool may look very silly by Chinese people, even if the syntax is correct. In the Key logo, some people mentioned that the X looks like the X-men logo. I've watched X-men movies many times but I didn't realize it until double-check. I was just not sensitive to the X-men's X because English is not my native tongue. To be honest, the top right corner logos on several other 65% kits don't look good to me as well. Sorry, I'm not gonna name them BTW. Some even look very stupid to me. Similarly, I have mixed feelings about the popular katakana sub-legends on many keysets. What makes these things good design? Apparently, the katakana sub-legends are not practically useful. Are popular designs objectively good or just suitable for the correct group of people? These questions have been puzzled me for quite some time now.
Anyway, the 6 versions of top case options should satisfy many of you, definitely not all of you though. I'm pretty happy with the Key logo so I'll keep it. It looks simple but believe me I put a lot of thoughts into it.
At the end of the day, the logo is just a logo. It may make mundane objects seem sophisticated and alluring, but it doesn't change what the keyboard is. I wouldn't even add a logo there if I knew it can cause so many conflicting viewpoints.
Again, I'm not an artist. Even the decisions are made, I'm open for comments about what I said.
Honestly, the whole redesign thing was ridiculous. Constructive criticism is fine if it concerns the feel of the board or if potential flaws are present, but the aesthetics of the board should always be what the designer has in mind. If you don't like the design, just don't buy the board...
Well thats kind of the point of an IC isn't it?
Exactly.
The problem with this trend of using top blocker logos is that the logo is way too dominant and often designed by someone who is not a graphic designer by profession (at least not a good one). To be quite honest most of them look terrible. So not only did I sacrifice a key, I now have to look at a bad logo whenever I look down on my keyboard.
Nobody buys a keyboard for the logo, so why does it have to be so dominant? This trend doesn't serve anybody but the designer.
The fact that the past 7 pages are pretty much all about the logo and not about the keyboard says something. Personally I don't think the first version was that bad but it was still an easy pass because of the in-your-face branding which I dislike.
I really like this board and feel that it's a shame they discussions derailed but maybe it is a good indication to future GB runners of what not to do. Your keyboard should be about exactly that, not the logo.
Put it on underneath or a tiny one on the side/back if you really need to have it.
Sure we can move on and not buy the keyboard, but it's a shame not to because this one and others are lovely and people are just venting because the branding is is holding them back from committing to the purchase. As long as we're all civil it should be OK. That's what an IC is for.
I totally agree with what you say. It's a shame that almost all the discussions were about the logo design.
That being said, I understand why people care about it. Even if I can convince people that it's not important and they are biased, it doesn't change the fact that they like or hate it. As mentioned by someone, it's a group buy, it won't happen if no one likes it, no matter how good I believe it is. If many people want a logo there, I'll put a logo there.
Hope all the discussions can shed some lights on what's controversial and what's not for all GB runners.
The prototyping will be finished soon. GB will start if everything works out nicely on the prototypes. In the period before GB starts, don't hesitate to ask more questions.
Post by: senter on Sun, 25 August 2019, 19:46:50
What color options will be available? When will the GB happen? Will the PCB support VIA configurator?
Color options are still TBD. It highly depends on what you say in the IC period.
I'm not familiar with VIA configurator but I'll look into it.
Post by: Kingjunguhn on Sun, 25 August 2019, 20:32:48
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Post by: PotatoTM on Sun, 25 August 2019, 22:14:31
Post by: SoraNoTenshi on Mon, 26 August 2019, 03:53:37
What color options will be available? When will the GB happen? Will the PCB support VIA configurator?
Color options are still TBD. It highly depends on what you say in the IC period.
I'm not familiar with VIA configurator but I'll look into it.
I would definetly have some suggestions:
1. Is the Welded Steel option still in consideration? (This would be something, i believe, a few people are interested in!)
2. The base colours are the very least: Black, Grey and White; i personally would also love to see something like a dark / forest green, navy blue, and/or maybe even a dark-ish pink tone.
3. Eventually an option to switch top and bottom case parts; e.G. White Bottom, Black Top.
Post by: FredBananaz on Mon, 26 August 2019, 07:06:59
Post by: biker0x01 on Mon, 26 August 2019, 08:53:21
Post by: v4rg on Mon, 26 August 2019, 14:03:58
is there an interest form yet? i think i haven' seen one
Post by: Cresc3nt on Mon, 26 August 2019, 15:13:37
Post by: kwentin on Mon, 26 August 2019, 16:16:11
Post by: cattharsis on Mon, 26 August 2019, 16:46:45
Post by: Soraie on Mon, 26 August 2019, 21:24:27
Edit: The key logo is really unique but can't decide between key or kanji so maybe both?
Post by: R0N1N on Tue, 27 August 2019, 05:00:10
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Post by: ramblinrose on Tue, 27 August 2019, 10:22:22
Post by: Lil on Tue, 27 August 2019, 11:56:16
How does the titanium plate compare in firmness / sound to aluminum / brass? Also since you are considering a POM case, please consider POM plates as well - I really dig my singa with a POM plate.. unique sound and a soft flexy bottom out.I can't speak for plates but I have a titanium bicycle and it's extremely vibration dampening/absorbent vs carbon fibre or aluminium
Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk
Post by: Dennyroxsox on Wed, 28 August 2019, 09:28:59
At the end of the day, the logo is just a logo. It may make mundane objects seem sophisticated and alluring, but it doesn't change what the keyboard is. I wouldn't even add a logo there if I knew it can cause so many conflicting viewpoints.
WK and WKL options for 3 different tops sound fantastic. I think these are great options, and you've gone above and beyond expectations. I see some people are (still) complaining about logo issues. Honestly I feel hypebeasts have taken over much of the hobby, and their lust for "aesthetics" is ruining the main purpose of ICs.
About color options - in the past you've offered MAO white. Is that possible here? Or is the process too difficult? I have it on my Leaf 80's plate, and I really love the matte white effect. I think it would be really great as an accent.
As for the board itself, I own a Leaf 80, and it's my favorite board. The brand may not be as hyped as other brands, but their build quality is just as good. I have no doubt in the quality of Fox Labs, and I'm very excited for this GB. I definitely want one aluminum with the gray/black(unless MAO white is available) and one polycarb. The price point is amazing, and Fox Labs has a history of solid manufacturing and delivery. I'd encourage anyone to buy into this.
Post by: infinitecurry on Wed, 28 August 2019, 11:44:15
I was planning on getting an e-yellow Polaris, but prefer 65% boards, so this may change my mind.
Personally, I like the final column, from top to bottom, to be Home, End, Page Up, Page Down, and the right arrow key. So, apart from not liking the logo in the upper right, it also prevents me from having the layout I prefer. Meaning that I would prefer an extra key as opposed to a logo I don't care for.
I don't expect things to be changed for my preferences, but you asked for opinions and responses, and this is just what I feel personally.
I don't mind the logo on the back, however. And I'm interested in what other e-colors will be available.
Polaris is a great board. Kevin and Ai have good taste. I may get a Polaris as well.
TBH I didn't like the NR logo. Fox lab is not just me tho and my partner insisted on the logo. I'm glad he admits he's wrong now.
E-black, E-white, E-red will all be available like before. You already know how E-yellow looks. Here are two other colors I prototyped before.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/NgUfwAY.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/q3EJYqz.jpg)
I really like these colors, I hope the teal is available!
Post by: packleadercho on Wed, 28 August 2019, 16:02:12
Also, are you still considering POM as a material option?
Post by: LazyJackfruit on Wed, 28 August 2019, 22:09:52
Post by: SoraNoTenshi on Thu, 29 August 2019, 04:32:52
+1 for gray top case + white/black logo color. hyped for this! :D
Personally; i'd go the opposite (if); Black case with white logo.
Ofc, if there are changes in terms of colour (e.G. Pink will be added ;) ) i will go with pink + black logo :D
Post by: senter on Thu, 29 August 2019, 21:34:36
I'm still super interested in learning more about the newer stuff I've never seen before in keyboards; G10 case and Pattern Welded steel weight, are you having protos made for these so we can sort of estimate what they would look like/sound/feel if they were to happen?
The factory told me that G10 is too difficult to work with with their machines. I insisted to order a prototype. Let's see how would it turns out.
I also ordered a pattern-welded steel weight. The patterns on the sample material are not very good. The supplier can offer more options only if we have a bulk purchase. The prototyping is more for verifying this option. I don't think many people will choose this weight but I really want to offer it at least once.
Post by: senter on Thu, 29 August 2019, 21:34:50
I am so in ! Is there a discord I can join so to get regular infos and discussions of this ?
Unfortunately no. There was a Discord server but I shut it down due to cyber bully.
Post by: senter on Thu, 29 August 2019, 21:35:05
Is red a possibility?
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Yes
Post by: senter on Thu, 29 August 2019, 21:35:17
How does the titanium plate compare in firmness / sound to aluminum / brass? Also since you are considering a POM case, please consider POM plates as well - I really dig my singa with a POM plate.. unique sound and a soft flexy bottom out.
Titanium is well known for its great elasticity and toughness. Can't commit to the sound due to the subjectivity of it.
Polycarb plates will be available. POM plates are very similar to PC plate according to my experiences.
Post by: senter on Thu, 29 August 2019, 21:35:30
At the end of the day, the logo is just a logo. It may make mundane objects seem sophisticated and alluring, but it doesn't change what the keyboard is. I wouldn't even add a logo there if I knew it can cause so many conflicting viewpoints.
WK and WKL options for 3 different tops sound fantastic. I think these are great options, and you've gone above and beyond expectations. I see some people are (still) complaining about logo issues. Honestly I feel hypebeasts have taken over much of the hobby, and their lust for "aesthetics" is ruining the main purpose of ICs.
About color options - in the past you've offered MAO white. Is that possible here? Or is the process too difficult? I have it on my Leaf 80's plate, and I really love the matte white effect. I think it would be really great as an accent.
As for the board itself, I own a Leaf 80, and it's my favorite board. The brand may not be as hyped as other brands, but their build quality is just as good. I have no doubt in the quality of Fox Labs, and I'm very excited for this GB. I definitely want one aluminum with the gray/black(unless MAO white is available) and one polycarb. The price point is amazing, and Fox Labs has a history of solid manufacturing and delivery. I'd encourage anyone to buy into this.
Thanks. MAO white is not difficult to deal with. It's just a matter of interest. I count your comment as a vote.
Post by: senter on Thu, 29 August 2019, 21:35:54
Thanks for taking the feedback in stride and offering a number of options. It looks like I'm in the minority here but I'll probably end up going with the Kanji with the winkey.
Also, are you still considering POM as a material option?
Thin POM parts (e.g. top case) have serious warping issues. It's a matter of the material but many people will regard it as a quality issue. I prefer not to provide it this time.
Post by: mooka on Thu, 29 August 2019, 22:03:10
Post by: Soraie on Thu, 29 August 2019, 22:07:05
Post by: packleadercho on Fri, 30 August 2019, 02:44:24
At the end of the day, the logo is just a logo. It may make mundane objects seem sophisticated and alluring, but it doesn't change what the keyboard is. I wouldn't even add a logo there if I knew it can cause so many conflicting viewpoints.
WK and WKL options for 3 different tops sound fantastic. I think these are great options, and you've gone above and beyond expectations. I see some people are (still) complaining about logo issues. Honestly I feel hypebeasts have taken over much of the hobby, and their lust for "aesthetics" is ruining the main purpose of ICs.
About color options - in the past you've offered MAO white. Is that possible here? Or is the process too difficult? I have it on my Leaf 80's plate, and I really love the matte white effect. I think it would be really great as an accent.
As for the board itself, I own a Leaf 80, and it's my favorite board. The brand may not be as hyped as other brands, but their build quality is just as good. I have no doubt in the quality of Fox Labs, and I'm very excited for this GB. I definitely want one aluminum with the gray/black(unless MAO white is available) and one polycarb. The price point is amazing, and Fox Labs has a history of solid manufacturing and delivery. I'd encourage anyone to buy into this.
Thanks. MAO white is not difficult to deal with. It's just a matter of interest. I count your comment as a vote.
Thanks for giving an update on POM; since it won't be available, I am also looking to get MAO white.
Post by: jooobe on Fri, 30 August 2019, 08:20:02
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Post by: breckstar on Fri, 30 August 2019, 09:25:05
Post by: SoraNoTenshi on Fri, 30 August 2019, 09:44:46
Hand polished raw aluminum? Otherwise probably going to just cerakote :)
nothing wrong about cerakoting. lul
Post by: cekagekh on Fri, 30 August 2019, 11:02:57
Post by: jooobe on Fri, 30 August 2019, 17:10:09
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Post by: vi0till on Mon, 02 September 2019, 10:18:34
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Post by: anatworkaccount on Tue, 03 September 2019, 09:24:59
Post by: //gainsborough on Tue, 03 September 2019, 16:01:10
Do you have a date planned?
also interested!
Post by: Lil on Tue, 03 September 2019, 17:25:05
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Post by: bananathock on Wed, 04 September 2019, 00:14:35
Post by: suacide on Wed, 04 September 2019, 20:38:45
Post by: guy0naBuffal0 on Thu, 05 September 2019, 00:38:58
I hope it is not a super limited run, so I can get one!
Post by: ele7087 on Fri, 06 September 2019, 22:05:42
Post by: ILoveMinivans on Sat, 07 September 2019, 13:41:46
Post by: jooobe on Sat, 07 September 2019, 13:45:33
Also very interested. This could be my endgame.Variety is the spice of Life
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Post by: OmniSzron on Sat, 07 September 2019, 15:59:41
Post by: Egobean on Sat, 07 September 2019, 22:56:05
Post by: EMC Labs on Sun, 08 September 2019, 02:44:59
Also very interested. This could be my endgame.Variety is the spice of Life
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Quote
could
Post by: senter on Sun, 08 September 2019, 18:12:29
Do you have a date planned?
also interested!
Do you have a date planned?
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If everything goes right, GB will start in this month. We're waiting for the prototypes, nothing else.
I won't the GB with just the renders and deal with uncertainties after I collected your money.
I wouldn't hesitate to start GB after I can make sure all the finishes, materials, and processing will work.
Right now we're trying to solve several G10 milling issues. We need to use the correct end mills and proper configurations (rpm, feed rate) for this material. Otherwise, there are flaking and other issues.
Post by: senter on Sun, 08 September 2019, 18:13:06
Will there be unlimited slots for each option? I really like the key logo and the kanji so it would be nice if I'd be able to get in on both options.
Very interested! Any idea on build quantites?
I hope it is not a super limited run, so I can get one!
no limits.
Post by: jooobe on Sun, 08 September 2019, 18:18:22
Good man!!!Do you have a date planned?
also interested!Do you have a date planned?
Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
If everything goes right, GB will start in this month. We're waiting for the prototypes, nothing else.
I won't the GB with just the renders and deal with uncertainties after I collected your money.
I wouldn't hesitate to start GB after I can make sure all the finishes, materials, and processing will work.
Right now we're trying to solve several G10 milling issues. We need to use the correct end mills and proper configurations (rpm, feed rate) for this material. Otherwise, there are flaking and other issues.
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Post by: Jetstream on Sun, 08 September 2019, 18:36:26
Do you have a date planned?
also interested!Do you have a date planned?
Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
If everything goes right, GB will start in this month. We're waiting for the prototypes, nothing else.
I won't the GB with just the renders and deal with uncertainties after I collected your money.
I wouldn't hesitate to start GB after I can make sure all the finishes, materials, and processing will work.
Right now we're trying to solve several G10 milling issues. We need to use the correct end mills and proper configurations (rpm, feed rate) for this material. Otherwise, there are flaking and other issues.
Oh!! Nice, how long will the GB period be?
Post by: Adelscott on Sun, 08 September 2019, 18:58:43
Nice !Do you have a date planned?
also interested!Do you have a date planned?
Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
If everything goes right, GB will start in this month. We're waiting for the prototypes, nothing else.
I won't the GB with just the renders and deal with uncertainties after I collected your money.
I wouldn't hesitate to start GB after I can make sure all the finishes, materials, and processing will work.
Right now we're trying to solve several G10 milling issues. We need to use the correct end mills and proper configurations (rpm, feed rate) for this material. Otherwise, there are flaking and other issues.
Will you give an ISO «ready to go» file so we can order a custom plate on our own ?
Post by: Sky Corrigan on Sun, 08 September 2019, 19:23:12
Post by: senter on Sun, 08 September 2019, 19:41:44
Nice !
Will you give an ISO «ready to go» file so we can order a custom plate on our own ?
Yes. I can do that.
Post by: Popopro on Mon, 09 September 2019, 00:30:20
Post by: Adelscott on Mon, 09 September 2019, 01:43:43
Possible to have it before the GB so we can ask for a quote ?Nice !
Will you give an ISO «ready to go» file so we can order a custom plate on our own ?
Yes. I can do that.
Post by: Lil on Mon, 09 September 2019, 03:13:24
Post by: Adelscott on Mon, 09 September 2019, 11:23:30
Please don't end the gb before the 27th of September!Pay day ?
Post by: chakkii on Mon, 09 September 2019, 12:42:31
Nice !
Will you give an ISO «ready to go» file so we can order a custom plate on our own ?
Yes. I can do that.
niiice :) so I can have everything set beforehand :)
Post by: orim23 on Mon, 09 September 2019, 13:11:35
where would one order such a plate?Possible to have it before the GB so we can ask for a quote ?Nice !
Will you give an ISO «ready to go» file so we can order a custom plate on our own ?
Yes. I can do that.
Post by: Adelscott on Mon, 09 September 2019, 14:41:48
where would one order such a plate?Possible to have it before the GB so we can ask for a quote ?Nice !
Will you give an ISO «ready to go» file so we can order a custom plate on our own ?
Yes. I can do that.
This :
logo is absolutely fine imo, I rather waiting for reply for the ISO plate support. Because PCB does support ISO but no plate? what plate should I use then or ISO only plateless?
Getting custom plates cut after the fact is not difficult at all, if the designer is willing to share plate files, or at least the stock dimensions.
I honestly have no clue where I can get custom plates done :P So I rather have it directly from the "vendor" / designer. do you have any suggestions?
There's a number of options available, depending on your budget and location in the world. Would advise creating another topic/post about this question, and fielding answers separately outside of this thread. Lasergist, Laserboost, Big Blue Saw, etc. I find that if enough people are interested in a custom plate, better to run a side group order to get quantities up for lower cost.
Post by: Lil on Mon, 09 September 2019, 14:49:49
Yes :D really looking forward to this onePlease don't end the gb before the 27th of September!Pay day ?
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Post by: jooobe on Tue, 10 September 2019, 16:14:08
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Post by: Kingjunguhn on Wed, 11 September 2019, 05:52:37
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Post by: Zeldris23 on Wed, 11 September 2019, 16:43:28
Post by: nathey on Wed, 11 September 2019, 16:55:44
Post by: littleairbison on Wed, 11 September 2019, 23:00:49
Post by: //gainsborough on Wed, 11 September 2019, 23:18:14
Post by: prototype26 on Thu, 12 September 2019, 01:15:18
1. Will there be extra hotswap pcb with standard layout? (2u bspace, 6.25u spacebar etc)
2. Any anodized option, specifically Teal / Turquoise / Tiffany Blue color? I know you will have e-teal but wonder if it's available anodized
Post by: suparnemo on Thu, 12 September 2019, 09:39:59
The logo kinda grows on me to be honest, I like it better now. Some questions tho:
1. Will there be extra hotswap pcb with standard layout? (2u bspace, 6.25u spacebar etc
Yeah, I want to know about this, too. Standard layout hotswap would be preferred.
Post by: hcoopos on Fri, 13 September 2019, 01:44:11
Also would like to hear more about the PCB; RGB underglow would be a huge plus for PC middle/bottom layers. Hotswap is probably nice too.
Post by: WAVES_D0NT_DIE on Fri, 13 September 2019, 02:01:54
Post by: Feenoh on Fri, 13 September 2019, 02:04:16
Post by: Vyndem on Fri, 13 September 2019, 13:54:24
Post by: ACF101015 on Fri, 13 September 2019, 22:49:19
Post by: Omnomnominous on Sat, 14 September 2019, 02:11:12
Post by: dannyny on Sun, 15 September 2019, 04:53:11
I'm still super interested in learning more about the newer stuff I've never seen before in keyboards; G10 case and Pattern Welded steel weight, are you having protos made for these so we can sort of estimate what they would look like/sound/feel if they were to happen?
The factory told me that G10 is too difficult to work with with their machines. I insisted to order a prototype. Let's see how would it turns out.
I also ordered a pattern-welded steel weight. The patterns on the sample material are not very good. The supplier can offer more options only if we have a bulk purchase. The prototyping is more for verifying this option. I don't think many people will choose this weight but I really want to offer it at least once.
I need that G10 case!!
Post by: Lisinge on Sun, 15 September 2019, 10:33:21
Yellow(gold), Red, Blue, Grey in that order is prefered for me :D
PS. Rose gold would guarantee a purchase for my GF.
Post by: Wobafet on Sun, 15 September 2019, 22:33:01
has there been any updates on whether the gb will start this month or next?
Post by: Jetstream on Mon, 16 September 2019, 13:58:08
Post by: Feenoh on Tue, 17 September 2019, 02:04:07
Post by: aydio on Tue, 17 September 2019, 05:41:18
Post by: vitaport on Wed, 18 September 2019, 09:49:43
specifically, PC with top right logo, left WKL blocker and brass Kanji weight :^)
Post by: Tequila_Heineken on Wed, 18 September 2019, 15:51:17
Post by: senter on Fri, 20 September 2019, 19:46:59
(https://i.imgur.com/YaVcWgg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/X1s8kZr.jpg)
More photos:
(https://i.imgur.com/3ynIsjj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dzr8zu3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ff0NjBU.jpg)
Unfortunately, the G10 case and the damast steel weight didn't turn out to be good. We haven't given up but we decide to run the GB without these two options first. GB will start on Sept. 25th and last two weeks.
Post by: senter on Fri, 20 September 2019, 19:50:13
any progress on the alps plate? Definitely buying one assuming alps is supported!
ALPS plate has been canceled due to limited demand. Your reply is the first one I've seen about this option. The PCB still supports ALPS but I won't provide ALPS plate options in the GB. I'll make ALPS plates for myself tho. If you wanna join, I can help you with the ALPS plate. PM me.
Post by: senter on Fri, 20 September 2019, 19:51:59
The logo kinda grows on me to be honest, I like it better now. Some questions tho:
1. Will there be extra hotswap pcb with standard layout? (2u bspace, 6.25u spacebar etc)
2. Any anodized option, specifically Teal / Turquoise / Tiffany Blue color? I know you will have e-teal but wonder if it's available anodized
1. The hotswap PCB supports 7u space and 2u bs
2. Two anodized colors will be available. They are blue and grey.
Post by: Incarnius26 on Fri, 20 September 2019, 19:52:07
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: senter on Fri, 20 September 2019, 19:53:02
Most likely in for a PC version with split spacebar! Are there still plans for a rotary encoder on the top right?
Unfortunately no due to lack of demand and motivation.
Post by: senter on Fri, 20 September 2019, 19:55:54
Is FR4 plate a possibility?
I didn't consider that. What's so good about FR4? I used FR4 plates before with a tray mount case. I wasn't terribly impressed when I use them.
Post by: senter on Fri, 20 September 2019, 19:58:02
Will there be any way to get the logo blocker to be a shiny badge rather than an e-coated brass? Prototypes look good though!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oh your comment is quick.
No shiny badges will be provided but you can always hand polish the badge to a mirror finish if you want. Just remember to paint with a clear coat to avoid oxidation.
Post by: Kingjunguhn on Fri, 20 September 2019, 20:03:40
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
Post by: rrsurmeier on Fri, 20 September 2019, 20:05:24
any progress on the alps plate? Definitely buying one assuming alps is supported!
ALPS plate has been canceled due to limited demand. Your reply is the first one I've seen about this option. The PCB still supports ALPS but I won't provide ALPS plate options in the GB. I'll make ALPS plates for myself tho. If you wanna join, I can help you with the ALPS plate. PM me.
would be in on this too.
Post by: senter on Fri, 20 September 2019, 20:12:05
Is that a blue grey version I see?
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
You can choose each part's color and material. That's why it's called a CUSTOM keyboard :)
Post by: Cresc3nt on Fri, 20 September 2019, 20:18:24
Post by: o3okevin on Fri, 20 September 2019, 20:20:26
Post by: belgium_waffles on Fri, 20 September 2019, 20:47:43
Post by: prototype26 on Fri, 20 September 2019, 20:52:42
The logo kinda grows on me to be honest, I like it better now. Some questions tho:
1. Will there be extra hotswap pcb with standard layout? (2u bspace, 6.25u spacebar etc)
2. Any anodized option, specifically Teal / Turquoise / Tiffany Blue color? I know you will have e-teal but wonder if it's available anodized
1. The hotswap PCB supports 7u space and 2u bs
2. Two anodized colors will be available. They are blue and grey.
What kind of blue is it? Is it teal or dark blue?
And please won’t you make the hotswap PCB has standard layout (6.25u space) as it’s more common for keycaps?
Post by: noodleman on Fri, 20 September 2019, 21:44:24
The logo kinda grows on me to be honest, I like it better now. Some questions tho:
1. Will there be extra hotswap pcb with standard layout? (2u bspace, 6.25u spacebar etc)
2. Any anodized option, specifically Teal / Turquoise / Tiffany Blue color? I know you will have e-teal but wonder if it's available anodized
1. The hotswap PCB supports 7u space and 2u bs
2. Two anodized colors will be available. They are blue and grey.
no chance that the hotswap pcb supporting 6.25u instead?
Post by: suparnemo on Fri, 20 September 2019, 22:07:15
The logo kinda grows on me to be honest, I like it better now. Some questions tho:
1. Will there be extra hotswap pcb with standard layout? (2u bspace, 6.25u spacebar etc)
2. Any anodized option, specifically Teal / Turquoise / Tiffany Blue color? I know you will have e-teal but wonder if it's available anodized
1. The hotswap PCB supports 7u space and 2u bs
2. Two anodized colors will be available. They are blue and grey.
no chance that the hotswap pcb supporting 6.25u instead?
I'll second this.
Post by: jooobe on Fri, 20 September 2019, 22:21:34
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: vi0till on Fri, 20 September 2019, 23:36:59
Can you share the supported layout and what is the typing angle for this board?
Post by: Choppersuey on Sat, 21 September 2019, 03:26:37
Post by: Cresc3nt on Sat, 21 September 2019, 03:27:44
I would also like a hotswap pcb that just has a standard 6.25u spacebar.The logo kinda grows on me to be honest, I like it better now. Some questions tho:
1. Will there be extra hotswap pcb with standard layout? (2u bspace, 6.25u spacebar etc)
2. Any anodized option, specifically Teal / Turquoise / Tiffany Blue color? I know you will have e-teal but wonder if it's available anodized
1. The hotswap PCB supports 7u space and 2u bs
2. Two anodized colors will be available. They are blue and grey.
no chance that the hotswap pcb supporting 6.25u instead?
Post by: Adelscott on Sat, 21 September 2019, 04:04:11
Same here.I would also like a hotswap pcb that just has a standard 6.25u spacebar.The logo kinda grows on me to be honest, I like it better now. Some questions tho:
1. Will there be extra hotswap pcb with standard layout? (2u bspace, 6.25u spacebar etc)
2. Any anodized option, specifically Teal / Turquoise / Tiffany Blue color? I know you will have e-teal but wonder if it's available anodized
1. The hotswap PCB supports 7u space and 2u bs
2. Two anodized colors will be available. They are blue and grey.
no chance that the hotswap pcb supporting 6.25u instead?
ISO + 6.25 + WK + hotswap + BT = dream keeb. The first 3 are non negotiable
Post by: Vireca on Sat, 21 September 2019, 04:14:14
Post by: OmniSzron on Sat, 21 September 2019, 11:02:28
Post by: WAVES_D0NT_DIE on Sat, 21 September 2019, 14:07:28
Agreed. The 7u spacebar on the hotswap PCB is kind of a dealbreaker for me.I would also like a hotswap pcb that just has a standard 6.25u spacebar.The logo kinda grows on me to be honest, I like it better now. Some questions tho:
1. Will there be extra hotswap pcb with standard layout? (2u bspace, 6.25u spacebar etc)
2. Any anodized option, specifically Teal / Turquoise / Tiffany Blue color? I know you will have e-teal but wonder if it's available anodized
1. The hotswap PCB supports 7u space and 2u bs
2. Two anodized colors will be available. They are blue and grey.
no chance that the hotswap pcb supporting 6.25u instead?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: rope on Sat, 21 September 2019, 14:22:05
Prototyping has been finished. Here is a comparison between the render and the real thing.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/YaVcWgg.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/X1s8kZr.jpg)
More photos:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/3ynIsjj.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/dzr8zu3.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ff0NjBU.jpg)
Unfortunately, the G10 case and the damast steel weight didn't turn out to be good. We haven't given up but we decide to run the GB without these two options first. GB will start on Sept. 25th and last two weeks.
these are beautiful senter, so excited!
Post by: PotatoTM on Sat, 21 September 2019, 15:12:35
Unfortunately, the G10 case and the damast steel weight didn't turn out to be good. We haven't given up but we decide to run the GB without these two options first. GB will start on Sept. 25th and last two weeks.
Sad to hear the fake damascus didn't make it but still looking forward to this GB, GL!
Post by: Solotov on Sat, 21 September 2019, 19:07:21
The proto looks really awesome though! :thumb:
Post by: dannyny on Sat, 21 September 2019, 21:22:00
Prototyping has been finished. Here is a comparison between the render and the real thing.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/YaVcWgg.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/X1s8kZr.jpg)
More photos:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/3ynIsjj.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/dzr8zu3.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ff0NjBU.jpg)
Unfortunately, the G10 case and the damast steel weight didn't turn out to be good. We haven't given up but we decide to run the GB without these two options first. GB will start on Sept. 25th and last two weeks.
Sell me the G10 prototype?
Post by: Yahhms on Sat, 21 September 2019, 22:05:02
Post by: lac29 on Sun, 22 September 2019, 10:30:13
Post by: Felt on Sun, 22 September 2019, 17:25:08
Post by: pengle on Mon, 23 September 2019, 00:33:42
Post by: kzlow on Mon, 23 September 2019, 00:57:32
Post by: infamousvincci on Mon, 23 September 2019, 01:45:00
Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk
Post by: //gainsborough on Mon, 23 September 2019, 02:32:51
Is there gonna be a GB for this?
GB will start on Sept. 25th and last two weeks.
Post by: happycamper87 on Mon, 23 September 2019, 03:06:26
Post by: SoraNoTenshi on Mon, 23 September 2019, 03:48:17
I didn't expect it to run that early... well guess i will hunger for quite some time then... D:
Post by: Riskymilk on Mon, 23 September 2019, 09:50:07
Post by: SoraNoTenshi on Mon, 23 September 2019, 10:02:24
Do you know what time the group buy will open?
Is there gonna be a GB for this?GB will start on Sept. 25th and last two weeks.
Post by: ghstgrl on Mon, 23 September 2019, 10:08:43
Post by: BIG_BUCKNUT on Mon, 23 September 2019, 13:15:32
Post by: senter on Mon, 23 September 2019, 13:50:50
The logo kinda grows on me to be honest, I like it better now. Some questions tho:
1. Will there be extra hotswap pcb with standard layout? (2u bspace, 6.25u spacebar etc)
2. Any anodized option, specifically Teal / Turquoise / Tiffany Blue color? I know you will have e-teal but wonder if it's available anodized
1. The hotswap PCB supports 7u space and 2u bs
2. Two anodized colors will be available. They are blue and grey.
What kind of blue is it? Is it teal or dark blue?
And please won’t you make the hotswap PCB has standard layout (6.25u space) as it’s more common for keycaps?
The anode blue is about the same with blue in the render with GMK Nautilus in OP.
No, another group of people will argue the 7u space layout is better if we change.
Post by: senter on Mon, 23 September 2019, 13:58:01
Does the pcb have build in under side led? Is there gonna be ona proxy site or like a google form order type of thing
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
No native bottom LEDs supported due to how easy they can be damaged during the shipping. They are serial connected. One LED brokes then all the rest don't work. I had a bad time doing the after-sale service for one of the previous PCB with native bottom LEDs.
LED strips can be easily soldered to the bottom of the PCB with the extension pinouts.
Yeah, we'll use google form this time.
Post by: senter on Mon, 23 September 2019, 14:01:33
So what materials have actually been decided?
Aluminum, POM, and PC for case material.
Alu, PC, and Titanium for plates.
Alu and brass for weights.
Post by: senter on Mon, 23 September 2019, 14:04:34
Between the 2 logos (kanji/chinese character and the key), are they both created the same way? the key logo looks like it uses a separately milled piece which is discrete from the top case while the kanji logo looks like its engraved directly on the top part of the case.
In different ways. Your understanding is correct.
Post by: ACF101015 on Mon, 23 September 2019, 21:12:36
Post by: prototype26 on Mon, 23 September 2019, 21:28:26
The logo kinda grows on me to be honest, I like it better now. Some questions tho:
1. Will there be extra hotswap pcb with standard layout? (2u bspace, 6.25u spacebar etc)
2. Any anodized option, specifically Teal / Turquoise / Tiffany Blue color? I know you will have e-teal but wonder if it's available anodized
1. The hotswap PCB supports 7u space and 2u bs
2. Two anodized colors will be available. They are blue and grey.
What kind of blue is it? Is it teal or dark blue?
And please won’t you make the hotswap PCB has standard layout (6.25u space) as it’s more common for keycaps?
The anode blue is about the same with blue in the render with GMK Nautilus in OP.
No, another group of people will argue the 7u space layout is better if we change.
Honestly, I don't get your argument. Why choose something uncommon over common?
This is different than the case of your logo. You can use that argument on that since it's purely subjective and there's no standardization of how a logo usually looks.
But this is not the same as that. It's an objective and undeniable fact that 6.25u is a standard layout that's more common. Meanwhile, 7u is not.
As a comparison, this is just as bizarre as a base keycap kit with ISO caps instead of ANSI caps. They can argue all they want ISO is better but the fact remains that ANSI is more general.
If they want more variety than the standard layout, shouldn't they get solder PCB instead? Isn't that supposed to be the key difference between solder and hotswap? You can't change layout in hotswap, that's why the layout should be standard.
You can see that a lot of people under my previous post asking for 6.25u hotswap pcb. Please, make it possible.
Post by: vicot on Mon, 23 September 2019, 22:20:50
Post by: Sigil on Mon, 23 September 2019, 23:16:26
The logo kinda grows on me to be honest, I like it better now. Some questions tho:
1. Will there be extra hotswap pcb with standard layout? (2u bspace, 6.25u spacebar etc)
2. Any anodized option, specifically Teal / Turquoise / Tiffany Blue color? I know you will have e-teal but wonder if it's available anodized
1. The hotswap PCB supports 7u space and 2u bs
2. Two anodized colors will be available. They are blue and grey.
What kind of blue is it? Is it teal or dark blue?
And please won’t you make the hotswap PCB has standard layout (6.25u space) as it’s more common for keycaps?
The anode blue is about the same with blue in the render with GMK Nautilus in OP.
No, another group of people will argue the 7u space layout is better if we change.
Honestly, I don't get your argument. Why choose something uncommon over common?
This is different than the case of your logo. You can use that argument on that since it's purely subjective and there's no standardization of how a logo usually looks.
But this is not the same as that. It's an objective and undeniable fact that 6.25u is a standard layout that's more common. Meanwhile, 7u is not.
As a comparison, this is just as bizarre as a base keycap kit with ISO caps instead of ANSI caps. They can argue all they want ISO is better but the fact remains that ANSI is more general.
If they want more variety than the standard layout, shouldn't they get solder PCB instead? Isn't that supposed to be the key difference between solder and hotswap? You can't change layout in hotswap, that's why the layout should be standard.
You can see that a lot of people under my previous post asking for 6.25u hotswap pcb. Please, make it possible.
Two things:
1: 6.25u bottom row being more common on keyboards does not imply any sort of advantage on its own. Being more common is not, by itself, a positive thing (if anything, it could be a negative in a community like this). The associated advantage is supposed to be broader keycap compatibility, but 7u bottom row is an extremely common setup to support in enthusiast keysets. GMK is the manufacturer of choice for keycaps in the community right now, and every GMK set that I've seen in recent years supports 7u bottom row in the base kit, so I really don't think that keyset compatibility is a major issue here for most buyers. What keysets are people trying to use that don't support 7u bottom row? The factors that differentiate the two bottom row options, then, are left to aesthetics and functionality, and it's harder to make an argument that 6.25u is somehow objectively superior in those regards. That's a can of worms I don't want to open.
2: If neither bottom row option is objectively superior (or even if one is, really), 6.25u bottom row being more common on keyboards as a whole doesn't mean that the majority of potential buyers of this keyboard would prefer 6.25u over 7u. You don't have any data to support that, so I don't really get your argument. It seems to boil down to "I like X, and lots of other people in the world like X, so X should be the thing of choice for everything, everywhere." Not every keyboard has to be for every person, or even the majority of people in the wider community. If you want to try and prove that the group of people interested in this keyboard would on average prefer 6.25u over 7u (and I don't just mean counting the people and taking the larger number), that's fine, and you would then have a decent argument for changing the default (in the absence of strong feelings from the designer). But without that proof, your argument doesn't seem convincing. You can make your argument about ISO because of the numbers involved, but that's not the case here. A board can be successful with a default 7u bottom row. See the U80-A and the Koyu, for recent examples. Why would a designer with an interest in broad appeal like RAMA have 7u as the default bottom row? Because they like it more, and the market will support it.
Post by: happycamper87 on Tue, 24 September 2019, 00:46:21
Post by: prototype26 on Tue, 24 September 2019, 00:53:32
The logo kinda grows on me to be honest, I like it better now. Some questions tho:
1. Will there be extra hotswap pcb with standard layout? (2u bspace, 6.25u spacebar etc)
2. Any anodized option, specifically Teal / Turquoise / Tiffany Blue color? I know you will have e-teal but wonder if it's available anodized
1. The hotswap PCB supports 7u space and 2u bs
2. Two anodized colors will be available. They are blue and grey.
What kind of blue is it? Is it teal or dark blue?
And please won’t you make the hotswap PCB has standard layout (6.25u space) as it’s more common for keycaps?
The anode blue is about the same with blue in the render with GMK Nautilus in OP.
No, another group of people will argue the 7u space layout is better if we change.
Honestly, I don't get your argument. Why choose something uncommon over common?
This is different than the case of your logo. You can use that argument on that since it's purely subjective and there's no standardization of how a logo usually looks.
But this is not the same as that. It's an objective and undeniable fact that 6.25u is a standard layout that's more common. Meanwhile, 7u is not.
As a comparison, this is just as bizarre as a base keycap kit with ISO caps instead of ANSI caps. They can argue all they want ISO is better but the fact remains that ANSI is more general.
If they want more variety than the standard layout, shouldn't they get solder PCB instead? Isn't that supposed to be the key difference between solder and hotswap? You can't change layout in hotswap, that's why the layout should be standard.
You can see that a lot of people under my previous post asking for 6.25u hotswap pcb. Please, make it possible.
Two things:
1: 6.25u bottom row being more common on keyboards does not imply any sort of advantage on its own. Being more common is not, by itself, a positive thing (if anything, it could be a negative in a community like this). The associated advantage is supposed to be broader keycap compatibility, but 7u bottom row is an extremely common setup to support in enthusiast keysets. GMK is the manufacturer of choice for keycaps in the community right now, and every GMK set that I've seen in recent years supports 7u bottom row in the base kit, so I really don't think that keyset compatibility is a major issue here for most buyers. What keysets are people trying to use that don't support 7u bottom row? The factors that differentiate the two bottom row options, then, are left to aesthetics and functionality, and it's harder to make an argument that 6.25u is somehow objectively superior in those regards. That's a can of worms I don't want to open.
2: If neither bottom row option is objectively superior (or even if one is, really), 6.25u bottom row being more common on keyboards as a whole doesn't mean that the majority of potential buyers of this keyboard would prefer 6.25u over 7u. You don't have any data to support that, so I don't really get your argument. It seems to boil down to "I like X, and lots of other people in the world like X, so X should be the thing of choice for everything, everywhere." Not every keyboard has to be for every person, or even the majority of people in the wider community. If you want to try and prove that the group of people interested in this keyboard would on average prefer 6.25u over 7u (and I don't just mean counting the people and taking the larger number), that's fine, and you would then have a decent argument for changing the default (in the absence of strong feelings from the designer). But without that proof, your argument doesn't seem convincing. You can make your argument about ISO because of the numbers involved, but that's not the case here. A board can be successful with a default 7u bottom row. See the U80-A and the Koyu, for recent examples. Why would a designer with an interest in broad appeal like RAMA have 7u as the default bottom row? Because they like it more, and the market will support it.
The logo kinda grows on me to be honest, I like it better now. Some questions tho:
1. Will there be extra hotswap pcb with standard layout? (2u bspace, 6.25u spacebar etc)
2. Any anodized option, specifically Teal / Turquoise / Tiffany Blue color? I know you will have e-teal but wonder if it's available anodized
1. The hotswap PCB supports 7u space and 2u bs
2. Two anodized colors will be available. They are blue and grey.
What kind of blue is it? Is it teal or dark blue?
And please won’t you make the hotswap PCB has standard layout (6.25u space) as it’s more common for keycaps?
The anode blue is about the same with blue in the render with GMK Nautilus in OP.
No, another group of people will argue the 7u space layout is better if we change.
Honestly, I don't get your argument. Why choose something uncommon over common?
This is different than the case of your logo. You can use that argument on that since it's purely subjective and there's no standardization of how a logo usually looks.
But this is not the same as that. It's an objective and undeniable fact that 6.25u is a standard layout that's more common. Meanwhile, 7u is not.
As a comparison, this is just as bizarre as a base keycap kit with ISO caps instead of ANSI caps. They can argue all they want ISO is better but the fact remains that ANSI is more general.
If they want more variety than the standard layout, shouldn't they get solder PCB instead? Isn't that supposed to be the key difference between solder and hotswap? You can't change layout in hotswap, that's why the layout should be standard.
You can see that a lot of people under my previous post asking for 6.25u hotswap pcb. Please, make it possible.
Two things:
1: 6.25u bottom row being more common on keyboards does not imply any sort of advantage on its own. Being more common is not, by itself, a positive thing (if anything, it could be a negative in a community like this). The associated advantage is supposed to be broader keycap compatibility, but 7u bottom row is an extremely common setup to support in enthusiast keysets. GMK is the manufacturer of choice for keycaps in the community right now, and every GMK set that I've seen in recent years supports 7u bottom row in the base kit, so I really don't think that keyset compatibility is a major issue here for most buyers. What keysets are people trying to use that don't support 7u bottom row? The factors that differentiate the two bottom row options, then, are left to aesthetics and functionality, and it's harder to make an argument that 6.25u is somehow objectively superior in those regards. That's a can of worms I don't want to open.
2: If neither bottom row option is objectively superior (or even if one is, really), 6.25u bottom row being more common on keyboards as a whole doesn't mean that the majority of potential buyers of this keyboard would prefer 6.25u over 7u. You don't have any data to support that, so I don't really get your argument. It seems to boil down to "I like X, and lots of other people in the world like X, so X should be the thing of choice for everything, everywhere." Not every keyboard has to be for every person, or even the majority of people in the wider community. If you want to try and prove that the group of people interested in this keyboard would on average prefer 6.25u over 7u (and I don't just mean counting the people and taking the larger number), that's fine, and you would then have a decent argument for changing the default (in the absence of strong feelings from the designer). But without that proof, your argument doesn't seem convincing. You can make your argument about ISO because of the numbers involved, but that's not the case here. A board can be successful with a default 7u bottom row. See the U80-A and the Koyu, for recent examples. Why would a designer with an interest in broad appeal like RAMA have 7u as the default bottom row? Because they like it more, and the market will support it.
When I mentioned "common", I meant in terms of keycap compability. Sure, the numbers of hotswap 7u boards may be even or more than 6.25u, but the number of existing boards don't really matter because in the end it falls down to keycap size compability. There can be 100 7u boards out there but if the sum of existing 6.25u base kit caps are 1000 that explains 6.25u is the more generic size doesn't it?
Before the current GMK boom like now, it was either 6.25u spacebar in the base kit and 7u in separate kit, OR both were in the base kit. Now both are commonly available in the same kit. Meaning if the hotswap pcb has 6.25u, it can support both old and new keycap sets. More compability, who doesn't like that?
I may not have the exact statistics to back this up, but are what I said that far off from the reality?
Post by: happycamper87 on Tue, 24 September 2019, 01:03:33
I'm still getting the regular soldered pcb though :p
Post by: prototype26 on Tue, 24 September 2019, 01:05:02
Personally not getting a hotswap pcb due to the lack of split backspace but I like the fact that it supports 7u space. I doubt anyone who plans on spending upwards of $300 shipped on this board intends to slap some cheap keyset on it without any 7u compatibility. Hell, I cant even think of any sets out there that support standard 65% ONLY. 99% of 65% compatible sets will have compatibility for 7u. So even your point which states 6.25u makes more sense because its more common isnt really true in the case for this board.
Older SA sets that are still relevant (and not "some cheap keyset") don't have 7u in their base kits. I know GMK is more loved but can we share some for SA too?
I get what you're saying, especially the bit about only recent sets being more friendly towards 7u. I guess the point I was trying to make is that not many sets that support 65% will not have any support for 7u. I could be wrong though so feel free to correct me on this if ever.
I'm still getting the regular soldered pcb though :p
Yeah, but the thing is if it's 7u, 6.25u isn't compatible. But if it's 6.25u, both parties can enjoy their hotswap pcb! The more compatibility the merrier.
Post by: badboy731 on Tue, 24 September 2019, 02:28:15
Post by: infamousvincci on Tue, 24 September 2019, 03:28:01
Im ready to order :)Is there gonna be a GB for this?GB will start on Sept. 25th and last two weeks.
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Post by: evorus5 on Tue, 24 September 2019, 10:17:08
Post by: Feenoh on Tue, 24 September 2019, 13:03:04
Post by: dannyny on Tue, 24 September 2019, 18:38:44
Post by: JacobTN on Tue, 24 September 2019, 22:27:05
Post by: nu_types on Tue, 24 September 2019, 22:30:21
Is there a set amount of keyboards or will go unlimited for two weeks?
They've stated before that there isn't a limit.
Post by: infamousvincci on Wed, 25 September 2019, 03:59:30
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Post by: littleairbison on Wed, 25 September 2019, 04:39:03
Post by: JacobTN on Wed, 25 September 2019, 09:15:59
Post by: fakedSkill on Wed, 25 September 2019, 09:21:23
Post by: senter on Wed, 25 September 2019, 09:46:59
Honestly, I don't get your argument. Why choose something uncommon over common?
This is different than the case of your logo. You can use that argument on that since it's purely subjective and there's no standardization of how a logo usually looks.
But this is not the same as that. It's an objective and undeniable fact that 6.25u is a standard layout that's more common. Meanwhile, 7u is not.
As a comparison, this is just as bizarre as a base keycap kit with ISO caps instead of ANSI caps. They can argue all they want ISO is better but the fact remains that ANSI is more general.
If they want more variety than the standard layout, shouldn't they get solder PCB instead? Isn't that supposed to be the key difference between solder and hotswap? You can't change layout in hotswap, that's why the layout should be standard.
You can see that a lot of people under my previous post asking for 6.25u hotswap pcb. Please, make it possible.
1. We are providing 6 versions of top cases, and 3 of them are WKL layout. 6.25u layout works only on WK tops. 7u layout works on both WK and WKL tops.
2. The hotswap PCB for Leaf 60 was WKL layout. Half of the buyers chose that version.
3. It's not that we don't provide 6.25u layout support. The soldered PCB always support the 6.25u layout. On the level of this whole group buy, we're not making it less compatible.
4. I prefer the WKL layout. This is settled. Sorry.
Post by: senter on Wed, 25 September 2019, 09:51:03
Will you open source the plate files? ;)
Yes. I'm working on the Fox Lab website. I'll open source the plate files for all the Fox Lab kits. The firmware, screw sizes, and other information will be included on the website. It's not a website that I wish many people to visit. It will serve as a database if people need information about our kits.
Post by: senter on Wed, 25 September 2019, 09:52:51
ETA?
I'm so ready for this GB! Where do we purchase?
soooo where can i spend my money?
Where do we order one?
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I've submitted the GB post and am waiting for the approval.
This IC post will be locked after GB post is on.
Post by: senter on Wed, 25 September 2019, 09:53:03
Post by: Signature on Wed, 25 September 2019, 10:40:43