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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: VesperSAINT on Tue, 29 January 2013, 19:14:09

Title: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: VesperSAINT on Tue, 29 January 2013, 19:14:09
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/search.php?switch_id=ALL&size=ALL&keyword=2108&in_stock=on

No discussion on the new Ducky Zero's? Dual layered PCB, laser etched keycaps and dual layered keycaps for the 5 LED keycaps with a small line led window, USB NKRO, and the standard 4 switch types (blacks, blues, browns, and reds). All this for $75-79 + shipping? Yes please. Hopefully they'll release the tenkeyless version soon.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 29 January 2013, 19:16:25
That's a crazy good price for a board. If the quality is good enough, it can probably become an entry 104 board. Like Vesper said, it'd be cool to see it in TKL.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: lazerpointer on Tue, 29 January 2013, 19:17:28
What does dual layered PCB provide, functionality wise?
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: VesperSAINT on Tue, 29 January 2013, 19:20:32
That's a crazy good price for a board. If the quality is good enough, it can probably become an entry 104 board. Like Vesper said, it'd be cool to see it in TKL.

That's what I'm saying. I mean I know there are some that don't really like Ducky but they haven't let me down and for that price, you really can't lose, especially as an entry keyboard. You get so much bang for the buck! I only own 104 keyboards so if they come out with a 87 key version, I'll definitely be replacing my Rosewill reds with one of those.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 29 January 2013, 19:20:42
Operating System Compatibility
Windows XP   Yes
Windows Vista   Yes
Windows 7   Yes
Mac   No

I wonder why not compatible with Mac?

So these are, what, just like other Duckys but without any backlighting?

Might give CoolerMaster a run for theirm oney.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: VesperSAINT on Tue, 29 January 2013, 19:23:45
What does dual layered PCB provide, functionality wise?

I believe they provide higher level of density of components because you can have more tracks/connections.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: jabar on Tue, 29 January 2013, 19:25:46
I think MechanicalKeyboards has reported keyboards not being Mac compatible while they actually are.

There are different levels of compatibility: having all the function keys present, and that NKRO hack which doesn't work well with non-Windows systems. I don't think Ducky has the NKRO hack enabled on this keyboard though (unlike the Choc Mini).
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: VesperSAINT on Tue, 29 January 2013, 19:27:27
Operating System Compatibility
Windows XP   Yes
Windows Vista   Yes
Windows 7   Yes
Mac   No

I wonder why not compatible with Mac?

So these are, what, just like other Duckys but without any backlighting?

Might give CoolerMaster a run for theirm oney.

Yeh, I don't anything about the whole MAC compatibility thing but it seems many of the mechanical keyboards have this issue.

I wouldn't see why it couldn't/wouldn't. More features than the CM keyboards. However, I guess it all will boil down to the standard manufacturer (Costar is better blah blah) and the classic debate of which stabilizer type is better.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: VesperSAINT on Tue, 29 January 2013, 19:33:32
I think MechanicalKeyboards has reported keyboards not being Mac compatible while they actually are.

There are different levels of compatibility: having all the function keys present, and that NKRO hack which doesn't work well with non-Windows systems. I don't think Ducky has the NKRO hack enabled on this keyboard though (unlike the Choc Mini).

What is this NKRO hack you mention? I don't know how the USB NKRO works but I have tested it on Aquakey Test and the NKRO really works. You and I own the Ducky DK9008 G2 Pro Limited with the USB NKRO as long as the Shine II's. Do these have this hack or are they different? Intradasting.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: Scirocco on Tue, 29 January 2013, 19:37:49
Oh yeah, they do a TKL, I would get one in a second.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: rootwyrm on Tue, 29 January 2013, 19:38:21
Two big downsides I see to this keyboard. One, it's ABS keycaps. I hate ABS. I destroy ABS. Took me less than 3 days to develop an insane amount of shine on my QF Rapid's spacebar. (It's like a damn mirror. Grrgh. I demand more PBT.)
Number two is the big one that's going to bite everyone. Those LED windows are hawt, oh yes. But they indicate two things. One, the LED's external to the switch. No big. Two, there are no existing molds with that type of windowing. Meaning any replacement keycap set is going to require two new molds to handle caps lock and num/scroll lock. And that's presuming they aren't using light pipe - now that would be an expensive keycap.

Otherwise looks pretty solid. Especially when you consider it's essentially an improved Vortex ONE ($110) with ABS instead of PBT.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: jabar on Tue, 29 January 2013, 19:41:51
What is this NKRO hack you mention? I don't know how the USB NKRO works but I have tested it on Aquakey Test and the NKRO really works. You and I own the Ducky DK9008 G2 Pro Limited with the USB NKRO as long as the Shine II's. Do these have this hack or are they different? Intradasting.
The hack is where the keyboard acts as a USB hub and connects multiple keyboard "devices" to achieve NKRO. Ducky has the NKRO vs. 6KRO as a DIP Switch option on their higher end boards (not sure about the Zero); that is where the hack is enabled/disabled.  The Noppoo Choc Mini doesn't have a means to disable the hack, so it is completely incompatible when used with some BIOSes and Mac OSes.

NKRO over USB is doable without such a hack but will require more bandwidth, which is trivial as USB are high speed ports.

For my DK9008G2Pro, I have it set on 6KRO and use a passive PS/2 adapter to get NKRO.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: VesperSAINT on Tue, 29 January 2013, 19:49:01
Two big downsides I see to this keyboard. One, it's ABS keycaps. I hate ABS. I destroy ABS. Took me less than 3 days to develop an insane amount of shine on my QF Rapid's spacebar. (It's like a damn mirror. Grrgh. I demand more PBT.)
Number two is the big one that's going to bite everyone. Those LED windows are hawt, oh yes. But they indicate two things. One, the LED's external to the switch. No big. Two, there are no existing molds with that type of windowing. Meaning any replacement keycap set is going to require two new molds to handle caps lock and num/scroll lock. And that's presuming they aren't using light pipe - now that would be an expensive keycap.

Otherwise looks pretty solid. Especially when you consider it's essentially an improved Vortex ONE ($110) with ABS instead of PBT.

I don't really think they intended for this keyboard line to be on the high end but more so for the entry level, which is why they didn't include PBT keycaps. They have the DK9008 G2 Pro series for that, but being Ducky, I woudn't be surprised if they did eventually provide this line with PBT keycaps for a slightly higher price like they did with the standard DK9008's. I can understand your hate for the shining on an ABS spacebar though. I don't mind the feel but man does it look ugly when it does that.

The whole LED windowed keycaps thing you talk about, standard OEM/Cherry profile keycaps wouldn't fit? I'm confused (sorry). Are you saying that the replacement keycaps from Ducky will be expensive or that standard keycaps won't fit? If you're saying standard keycaps won't fit, that'd be an issue, for sure.

So much I don't know about keyboards :S Learning something new everyday.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: VesperSAINT on Tue, 29 January 2013, 19:53:31
What is this NKRO hack you mention? I don't know how the USB NKRO works but I have tested it on Aquakey Test and the NKRO really works. You and I own the Ducky DK9008 G2 Pro Limited with the USB NKRO as long as the Shine II's. Do these have this hack or are they different? Intradasting.
The hack is where the keyboard acts as a USB hub and connects multiple keyboard "devices" to achieve NKRO. Ducky has the NKRO vs. 6KRO as a DIP Switch option on their higher end boards (not sure about the Zero); that is where the hack is enabled/disabled.  The Noppoo Choc Mini doesn't have a means to disable the hack, so it is completely incompatible when used with some BIOSes and Mac OSes.

NKRO over USB is doable without such a hack but will require more bandwidth, which is trivial as USB are high speed ports.

For my DK9008G2Pro, I have it set on 6KRO and use a passive PS/2 adapter to get NKRO.


OOOO! Thank you for this new information! I had no clue how it worked but what you said makes sense. This actually explains a lot for me because the past week I've had two mechanical keyboards connected to my computer through a USB hub with my DK9008 G2 Pro having the USB NKRO on. This has lead to my keyboards needing like 1-2 minute to start working on bootup. Unfortunately I don't have a PS/2 port on my MOBO so I use the USB NKRO, but do you think there is any kind of downside to using the USB NKRO? Like more wear on the hardware, etc.?
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: jabar on Tue, 29 January 2013, 19:56:07
This isn't a keyboard meant for swapping keycaps or doing anything drastic other than typing. Even Filcos which sell for close to $150 use ABS keycaps; virtually every keyboard company with the exception of the premium Topre boards, Leopold (very good) and Vortex (QC inconsistent) uses ABS.

Vesper, as for the windowed keycaps, rootwyrm means that no other compatible windowed keycaps are available for what Ducky did here. Again, not a problem as it's an entry board.

I am curious though to compare the Chinese-made Zero series with the older, Taiwanese-manufactured (I think) DK1087 boards. Those supposedly had some QC issues.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Tue, 29 January 2013, 20:06:11
Number two is the big one that's going to bite everyone. Those LED windows are hawt, oh yes. But they indicate two things. One, the LED's external to the switch. No big. Two, there are no existing molds with that type of windowing. Meaning any replacement keycap set is going to require two new molds to handle caps lock and num/scroll lock. And that's presuming they aren't using light pipe - now that would be an expensive keycap.

Are you sure you'd need special windowed replacement caps?

(http://cdn.overclock.net/f/f2/500x1000px-LL-f243499b_27.jpeg)

Looks like normal LED placement to me...
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: rootwyrm on Tue, 29 January 2013, 20:06:19
Two big downsides I see to this keyboard. One, it's ABS keycaps. I hate ABS. I destroy ABS. Took me less than 3 days to develop an insane amount of shine on my QF Rapid's spacebar. (It's like a damn mirror. Grrgh. I demand more PBT.)
Number two is the big one that's going to bite everyone. Those LED windows are hawt, oh yes. But they indicate two things. One, the LED's external to the switch. No big. Two, there are no existing molds with that type of windowing. Meaning any replacement keycap set is going to require two new molds to handle caps lock and num/scroll lock. And that's presuming they aren't using light pipe - now that would be an expensive keycap.

Otherwise looks pretty solid. Especially when you consider it's essentially an improved Vortex ONE ($110) with ABS instead of PBT.

I don't really think they intended for this keyboard line to be on the high end but more so for the entry level, which is why they didn't include PBT keycaps. They have the DK9008 G2 Pro series for that, but being Ducky, I woudn't be surprised if they did eventually provide this line with PBT keycaps for a slightly higher price like they did with the standard DK9008's. I can understand your hate for the shining on an ABS spacebar though. I don't mind the feel but man does it look ugly when it does that.

That's the confusing thing - the DK9008G2 is available with PBT. But the Zero is pretty clearly higher end in terms of appearance and function. So commence epic confusion as everyone looks and goes "wait, the 9008G2 has old style LED windows and the Zero has these really nice LEDs, 9008G2 is single layer while Zero is two layer. And they both have about the same layout but the Zero is way cheaper?"
Seriously. Do the comparison. The Zero is ahead of the 9008G2 in many regards. (It also appears to have a significantly more ergonomic Fn layer, depending where the track control buttons are.)

Quote
The whole LED windowed keycaps thing you talk about, standard OEM/Cherry profile keycaps wouldn't fit? I'm confused (sorry). Are you saying that the replacement keycaps from Ducky will be expensive or that standard keycaps won't fit? If you're saying standard keycaps won't fit, that'd be an issue, for sure.

Would standard keycaps fit? Yes. Would the LEDs be visible? No. Would standard windowed keycaps work? No - they wouldn't show the LED. You need keycaps that match that specific window layout. So this would make truly compatible keycaps more expensive because it requires a new mold to be made. Otherwise, you would basically lose the LED functionality.
My greater fear is that Ducky is using a light pipe (basically specially shaped optical plastic) as part of the keycap, which would make replacement keycaps extremely expensive - seriously, just the light pipe would probably cost near half a dollar in qty 1000+ - but could mean the LED's in front so windowed keycaps would work.

Quote
So much I don't know about keyboards :S Learning something new everyday.

Heh, I think most folks missed that little caveat. Still it looks like a very solid keyboard overall. I'm certainly giving some consideration - just want more information on the Fn layer. I can live without volume controls, but I cannot live without my track controls.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: VesperSAINT on Tue, 29 January 2013, 20:09:27
This isn't a keyboard meant for swapping keycaps or doing anything drastic other than typing. Even Filcos which sell for close to $150 use ABS keycaps; virtually every keyboard company with the exception of the premium Topre boards, Leopold (very good) and Vortex (QC inconsistent) uses ABS.

Vesper, as for the windowed keycaps, rootwyrm means that no other compatible windowed keycaps are available for what Ducky did here. Again, not a problem as it's an entry board.

I am curious though to compare the Chinese-made Zero series with the older, Taiwanese-manufactured (I think) DK1087 boards. Those supposedly had some QC issues.

Oh okay, but any other standard ABS/PBT ANSI keycap set will still fit (just won't have the same look), so I'm not worried :D Thanks for the clarification.

The DK1087 may have had issues but with the quality of the newer Ducky keyboards being awesome, I don't think this will be an issue. The only issues I've seen arise are about the key switches itself being iffy but I don't think/know that this is Ducky's fault.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: rootwyrm on Tue, 29 January 2013, 20:10:07
Number two is the big one that's going to bite everyone. Those LED windows are hawt, oh yes. But they indicate two things. One, the LED's external to the switch. No big. Two, there are no existing molds with that type of windowing. Meaning any replacement keycap set is going to require two new molds to handle caps lock and num/scroll lock. And that's presuming they aren't using light pipe - now that would be an expensive keycap.

Are you sure you'd need special windowed replacement caps?

Show Image
(http://cdn.overclock.net/f/f2/500x1000px-LL-f243499b_27.jpeg)


Looks like normal LED placement to me...

Ha ha! Ducky you tricksy bastards!
Dude. Look at that picture again. Notice something off? Specifically, notice that the key switch is mounted UPSIDE DOWN.
Does anybody still have molds for top positioned windowed keycaps? Hells, I've only seen one keyboard ever use them.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: jabar on Tue, 29 January 2013, 20:15:23
Dude. Look at that picture again. Notice something off? Specifically, notice that the key switch is mounted UPSIDE DOWN.
Upside down mounting is pretty common; I'd venture a guess that most backlit keyboards do the same. Yes, Ducky did reinvent the wheel for those windowed keycaps, but again not something I'd worry about for the target user of the Zero.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Tue, 29 January 2013, 20:16:08
Number two is the big one that's going to bite everyone. Those LED windows are hawt, oh yes. But they indicate two things. One, the LED's external to the switch. No big. Two, there are no existing molds with that type of windowing. Meaning any replacement keycap set is going to require two new molds to handle caps lock and num/scroll lock. And that's presuming they aren't using light pipe - now that would be an expensive keycap.

Are you sure you'd need special windowed replacement caps?

Show Image
(http://cdn.overclock.net/f/f2/500x1000px-LL-f243499b_27.jpeg)


Looks like normal LED placement to me...

Ha ha! Ducky you tricksy bastards!
Dude. Look at that picture again. Notice something off? Specifically, notice that the key switch is mounted UPSIDE DOWN.
Does anybody still have molds for top positioned windowed keycaps? Hells, I've only seen one keyboard ever use them.

Ah, I see...

Threw me off a little because many backlit keyboards position the switch that way, in order to illuminate the legend...hence the feeling of normal-ness when looking at a switch with LED facing in that direction. In fact, my Noppoo, which isn't backlit, has the switches facing that way as well...
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: VesperSAINT on Tue, 29 January 2013, 20:20:25
Are you sure you'd need special windowed replacement caps?

Show Image
(http://cdn.overclock.net/f/f2/500x1000px-LL-f243499b_27.jpeg)


Looks like normal LED placement to me...

Yeh, knew the keyswitch was just flipped upside down with many keyboards now for txt lighting (my own very Ducky greens have that for the WASD), but man, didn't even cross my mind when rootwyrm was talking about it. Silly me :P

That's the confusing thing - the DK9008G2 is available with PBT. But the Zero is pretty clearly higher end in terms of appearance and function. So commence epic confusion as everyone looks and goes "wait, the 9008G2 has old style LED windows and the Zero has these really nice LEDs, 9008G2 is single layer while Zero is two layer. And they both have about the same layout but the Zero is way cheaper?"
Seriously. Do the comparison. The Zero is ahead of the 9008G2 in many regards. (It also appears to have a significantly more ergonomic Fn layer, depending where the track control buttons are.)

Would standard keycaps fit? Yes. Would the LEDs be visible? No. Would standard windowed keycaps work? No - they wouldn't show the LED. You need keycaps that match that specific window layout. So this would make truly compatible keycaps more expensive because it requires a new mold to be made. Otherwise, you would basically lose the LED functionality.
My greater fear is that Ducky is using a light pipe (basically specially shaped optical plastic) as part of the keycap, which would make replacement keycaps extremely expensive - seriously, just the light pipe would probably cost near half a dollar in qty 1000+ - but could mean the LED's in front so windowed keycaps would work.

Heh, I think most folks missed that little caveat. Still it looks like a very solid keyboard overall. I'm certainly giving some consideration - just want more information on the Fn layer. I can live without volume controls, but I cannot live without my track controls.

Thank you for the in depth explanation! Really did mean it when I said I was learning something new :D I really don't know all the nooks and crannies of how keyboards work and all this info gives me more insight on what I need to consider before making purchases.

Are they still producing the DK9008G2? I assumed this new line of Ducky Zero was to be their current 104 keyboard while they are only producing the DK9008G2 Pro's which have all the functions the new Zero (dual layer PCB, USB NKRO, etc.) has but with PBT keycaps and extra LED's.

I see your point now about the LED windows. It was so obvious that I didn't even think about it... Lol. The standard LED window is on the bottom.. this at top bc flipped... Oops. Derp moments were had by me... I even own a keyboard that has this...  :))
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: Hak Foo on Tue, 29 January 2013, 20:23:56
If it were MX Green, I'd buy one right now.

The problem is, the improvements over the 1008 I have now in Blue are not enough to justify another 85 dollars delivered.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: jabar on Tue, 29 January 2013, 20:26:04
rootwyrm does bring up a pretty valid point: Why would Ducky release the Zero when they have oodles of G2Pro keyboards sitting around? There are only a few advantages the G2Pro keyboard offers:

* TKL and 104 options
* PBT (but not always)
* backlit WASD cluster + media control, +WASD backlit keycaps
* Made in Taiwan

Still, I can't see how the Chinese-made Zero isn't a good value over an ABS G2Pro keyboard unless backlit WASD cluster is absolutely critical and worth the $35 difference!

Here's the comparison:
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=214
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=218
vs.
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=263
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: VesperSAINT on Tue, 29 January 2013, 20:31:52
rootwyrm does bring up a pretty valid point: Why would Ducky release the Zero when they have oodles of G2Pro keyboards sitting around? There are only a few advantages the G2Pro keyboard offers:

* TKL and 104 options
* PBT (but not always)
* backlit WASD cluster + media control, +WASD backlit keycaps
* Made in Taiwan

Still, I can't see how the Chinese-made Zero isn't a good value over an ABS G2Pro keyboard unless backlit WASD cluster is absolutely critical and worth the $35 difference!

Here's the comparison:
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=214
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=218
vs.
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=263


Agreed. Rootwyrm's point is very valid. I honestly don't even care for the backlit WASD cluster on my G2 Pro. Just bought it for the Green switches, USB NKRO (I don't have PS/2 port on my mobo) and stock PBT keycaps. Once Zero line is produced in the TKL 87 form factor, I wouldn't see the need to pay the extra for the G2 Pro unless stock PBT was necessary. For the price they are selling the Zero currently, I think it'd be hard to come stock with PBT keycaps unless they buff up the price a tad but I think that would be an awesome option for those that don't already own a set or two of PBT keycaps.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: jlewisnj on Wed, 30 January 2013, 00:17:53
Welp, I just ordered one tonight Ducky Zero with Cherry Brown MX (http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=262)

Been in the market for a good mechanical keyboard for a few weeks now, was tempted to get a Ducky Shine II but really don't care about the illuminated keys and the brown version is running $143 right now.

I saw the zero but haven't read any reviews about them, but i am counting on a quality product since it is a Ducky.. and for $88 shipped it seems like a real good deal!!

Will post an update when I get it in..

Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: tr4656 on Wed, 30 January 2013, 00:34:06
If it were MX Green, I'd buy one right now.

The problem is, the improvements over the 1008 I have now in Blue are not enough to justify another 85 dollars delivered.

Which boards are MX Greens?
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: jabar on Wed, 30 January 2013, 00:39:36
Which boards are MX Greens?
only the Ducky DK9008G2Pro board: http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=199

and the Cooler Master Quick Fire Rapid and Quick Fire TK

Ducky said they will be releasing more rarer switch boards later this year.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: missalaire on Wed, 30 January 2013, 00:44:05
Which boards are MX Greens?
only the Ducky DK9008G2Pro board: http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=199

and the Cooler Master Quick Fire Rapid and CM Storm Trigger.

Ducky said they will be releasing more rarer switch boards later this year.

Fixed.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 30 January 2013, 01:14:06
well... it's not like they can really innovate a keyboard much further.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: lazerpointer on Wed, 30 January 2013, 11:10:05
Can anybody report on the feel of the stabs?
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: XTF on Wed, 30 January 2013, 14:35:42
Any plans for a ninja/stealth variant?
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: XTF on Thu, 31 January 2013, 08:31:38
well... it's not like they can really innovate a keyboard much further.
They could get rid of the media keys, USB NKRO and Win-lock. Could get rid of all LEDs too.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: deepthawt on Thu, 31 January 2013, 09:20:36
well... it's not like they can really innovate a keyboard much further.

 :) i can think of several ways keyboards can be innovated.

I'm sure i can think of lots more things

Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: nsrexler on Thu, 31 January 2013, 09:44:17
  • lighting effects, have each pressed key GLOW for a period after pressing and then fade out.
I think the Ducky Shine II already has this feature as an option, if I'm not mistaken.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: rootwyrm on Thu, 31 January 2013, 10:21:43
:) i can think of several ways keyboards can be innovated.

Buncha crap ba-leeted.
Quote
I'm sure i can think of lots more things

I'm sorry, you seem to be confusing "stupid gimmicky trash" with innovation. Product designers would appreciate it if you would please stop doing this. Forever. No, seriously.

Not to mention, other than the unworkable 'skirt' and heated USB crap? THAT'S ALL BEEN DONE.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: Binge on Thu, 31 January 2013, 10:32:36
:) i can think of several ways keyboards can be innovated.

Buncha crap ba-leeted.
Quote
I'm sure i can think of lots more things

I'm sorry, you seem to be confusing "stupid gimmicky trash" with innovation. Product designers would appreciate it if you would please stop doing this. Forever. No, seriously.

Not to mention, other than the unworkable 'skirt' and heated USB crap? THAT'S ALL BEEN DONE.

Harsh.  It may have been done before, but all of his changes, if adopted, would be a new direction or innovation in the market.  Now... your whole overreaction in negativity bit.  That's been done to death.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 31 January 2013, 13:14:05
:) i can think of several ways keyboards can be innovated.

  • lighting effects, have each pressed key GLOW for a period after pressing and then fade out.
I'm sure i can think of lots more things

I thought of this one too.  The reactive mode on Duckys either flashes the LED at the activation point, or keeps the LED on only as long as the key is held down (as far as I know).

It would be cool if you could configure a 1 or 2 second delay, and the LED either turns off or (better) fades after that time.

Fast typists could try to light up the whole keyboard :D
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: lazerpointer on Thu, 31 January 2013, 13:16:26
Ahhhhh snap. That would be sexy indeed.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: Parabellum on Thu, 31 January 2013, 13:22:32
too bad they look so ricer
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Thu, 31 January 2013, 13:37:48
I'm sorry, you seem to be confusing "stupid gimmicky trash" with innovation. Product designers would appreciate it if you would please stop doing this. Forever. No, seriously.

Wait, aren't product designers the people whose job it is to come up with stupid gimmicky trash that the marketing people can make a fuss about (even if it's actually useless)? :p

Either way, I have to agree with those who want more "innovation", even if it's sometimes just resurrecting features that have fallen out of use for the sake of variety. Where's the fun in the keyboard (not keycap) hobby if everything is basically the same, or there's one "best" thing that everyone has, with no striving towards improvement?
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: lazerpointer on Thu, 31 January 2013, 13:45:08
too bad they look so ricer

It's literally just a black keyboard. Ricer??
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 31 January 2013, 14:43:17
Just to mention that these are now available at PCCG: http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=113_1361

$79 for blacks and blues, $85 for reds and browns.

Might give QFR a run for its money at that price!
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: SmallFry on Thu, 31 January 2013, 14:44:58
I keep getting excited that the Filco Zero and Ducky ALPS boards had a baby, called it the Ducky for names, but had the build quality of the Filco. damn..
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: rootwyrm on Thu, 31 January 2013, 14:47:29
I keep getting excited that Filco and Ducky had a baby, called it the Ducky Zero, but had the build quality of the Filco. damn..

I'm waiting for Cherry and Ducky to have a baby and call it - I don't freaking care what they call it as long as it has old style Cherry stabilizers, damnit!
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: SmallFry on Thu, 31 January 2013, 14:48:28
Leopold? With the universal spacebars on the F200 series, I wouldn't be worried about finding caps anymore.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: Rafen on Thu, 31 January 2013, 14:50:55
Leopold? With the universal spacebars on the F200 series, I wouldn't be worried about finding caps anymore.

That's the reason I sold all my Leopold's. I got tired of trying to find space bars that would fit.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: SmallFry on Thu, 31 January 2013, 14:57:21
I'm actually a fan of the Leopolds. To each their own I suppose.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: Lu_e on Thu, 31 January 2013, 15:03:39
Light tunnels? ... did you look at all the pictures?

Other caps; cant see LED? it will still underglow. although my qfr has a red plate which probably helps.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/HeartagramBMXR/IMG_3942.jpg)
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: VesperSAINT on Thu, 31 January 2013, 16:18:48
  • lighting effects, have each pressed key GLOW for a period after pressing and then fade out.

I like the GLOW thing you mention or at least where the key stays illuminated for a split second longer. I don't really care for backlighting but a few of my friends own the Shine II and they are always boasting the backlit effect where it only lights up the keys you press... except you can't see it because your finger covers the illuminated lettering. The only way to solve this situation, that I saw, was to buy transluscent keycaps so that the entire keycap would light up. This glowing effect would solve this problem. I like it :)

Light tunnels? ... did you look at all the pictures?

Other caps; cant see LED? it will still underglow. although my qfr has a red plate which probably helps.

Show Image
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/HeartagramBMXR/IMG_3942.jpg)


That Ragnarok set... Jealous. I'm still hating myself for missing a 104 set of these for $35.00 shipped.... *sigh*
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: rootwyrm on Thu, 31 January 2013, 18:12:50
Light tunnels? ... did you look at all the pictures?

Other caps; cant see LED? it will still underglow. although my qfr has a red plate which probably helps.

Uh, no, it won't.
Do you know why the CM Storm looks like that? Because they use an insanely high mcd lamp with about a 120deg spread. In fact, it's so bright, it shines through the stock keycaps.
By comparison, the photos of the Ducky Zero appear to show that it is a narrow angle, low mcd green - the visible 'bleed' appears to be point reflection and not direct illumination. It's most definitely nowhere near bright enough to be reasonably visible sans window. Low mcd green with narrow angle's also the cheapest choice. Figure CM Storm's reds in the QFR are red clear T1's at we'll say probably around 100mcd and a 90-120 angle so probably OSRAMs which are around $0.80/ea as I recall. Even going with lower mcd, clear means around $0.50/ea. Greens with low mcd narrow angle? $0.34 each (http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/LTL-4236N/160-1144-ND/214443) for the expensive ones.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: lazerpointer on Thu, 31 January 2013, 18:47:33
People have different lighting situations in their keyboarding environments. In fact the lowest brightness levels will work fine for most users, in a functionality sense - raising the brightness even more would just be for show.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: tauburn on Thu, 31 January 2013, 21:52:02
Two big downsides I see to this keyboard. One, it's ABS keycaps. I hate ABS. I destroy ABS. Took me less than 3 days to develop an insane amount of shine on my QF Rapid's spacebar. (It's like a damn mirror. Grrgh. I demand more PBT.)
Number two is the big one that's going to bite everyone. Those LED windows are hawt, oh yes. But they indicate two things. One, the LED's external to the switch. No big. Two, there are no existing molds with that type of windowing. Meaning any replacement keycap set is going to require two new molds to handle caps lock and num/scroll lock. And that's presuming they aren't using light pipe - now that would be an expensive keycap.

Otherwise looks pretty solid. Especially when you consider it's essentially an improved Vortex ONE ($110) with ABS instead of PBT.

what are your fingers made of?
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: SmallFry on Thu, 31 January 2013, 21:54:17
Sweat apparently.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: jabar on Fri, 01 February 2013, 01:01:03
My hands aren't corrosive unlike others here, so it takes years for ABS keycaps to rub out (as they finally did on my laptop).
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: rootwyrm on Fri, 01 February 2013, 02:08:33
what are your fingers made of?

<--- See left.
Well and I generally run around 450 keystrokes per minute, 12-16 hours per day, 7 days a week. Possibly something with certain ABS mixes doesn't react well, but PBT doesn't wear out in a matter of months. Other than the spacebar.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: sicaine on Fri, 01 February 2013, 02:55:52
Mh there is no information about the weight. I do love the feeling of a sturdy and heavy board.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: XTF on Fri, 01 February 2013, 03:53:34
Well and I generally run around 450 keystrokes per minute, 12-16 hours per day, 7 days a week.
Damn, what do you do?
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 01 February 2013, 06:44:13
Well and I generally run around 450 keystrokes per minute, 12-16 hours per day, 7 days a week.
Damn, what do you do?

Yea this doesn't make sense.. 450 isn't fast, but "ALL DAY" that's alot of material... certainly impossible that's all self generated.

Idk, training to beat arenasnow?

450*60*12*7 =  2.3 million characters

King James with spaces 4.xx million characters


Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: rknize on Fri, 01 February 2013, 09:44:32
Light tunnels? ... did you look at all the pictures?

Other caps; cant see LED? it will still underglow. although my qfr has a red plate which probably helps.

Uh, no, it won't.
Do you know why the CM Storm looks like that? Because they use an insanely high mcd lamp with about a 120deg spread. In fact, it's so bright, it shines through the stock keycaps.
By comparison, the photos of the Ducky Zero appear to show that it is a narrow angle, low mcd green - the visible 'bleed' appears to be point reflection and not direct illumination. It's most definitely nowhere near bright enough to be reasonably visible sans window. Low mcd green with narrow angle's also the cheapest choice. Figure CM Storm's reds in the QFR are red clear T1's at we'll say probably around 100mcd and a 90-120 angle so probably OSRAMs which are around $0.80/ea as I recall. Even going with lower mcd, clear means around $0.50/ea. Greens with low mcd narrow angle? $0.34 each (http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/LTL-4236N/160-1144-ND/214443) for the expensive ones.

A simple workaround is what I did to the black PBT caps on my Poker: shoot some white paint into the back of the key caps.  This diffuses even the most narrow-angle LED light pretty well.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: rootwyrm on Fri, 01 February 2013, 18:46:18
Well and I generally run around 450 keystrokes per minute, 12-16 hours per day, 7 days a week.
Damn, what do you do?

Software development. But I'm also stuck with responsibility for all the business matters and the social media stuff and I game as well. Plus a lot of email and so on. So I'm pretty much constantly in conversation with someone or cranking out code. End result is around that average. Burst is around 900 keystrokes and low is around 100 keystrokes per minute. So, only works out to about 150WPM peaks with 1-2WPM lows.
I'm also used to Model M's and extremely heavy MX Blacks - so around 70-80cN - and I bottom those out. So MX Blues? Yeah. Lots of bottoming out on a regular basis.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: jabar on Fri, 01 February 2013, 18:50:26
Have you tried MX Greens? Those are tough to consistently bottom out on.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: x2o on Fri, 01 February 2013, 18:54:11
Have you tried MX Greens? Those are tough to consistently bottom out on.

I wish MX Greens were an option on more keyboards... Seems to be a very hard thing to come by.

I spent a while trying to hunt down a Ducky 9008 g2 pro with MX Greens but they were sold out everywhere :(.

I wish this Ducky Zero was available with MX greens  :'( I guess there's always the QFR..
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: jabar on Fri, 01 February 2013, 19:11:17
I wish MX Greens were an option on more keyboards... Seems to be a very hard thing to come by.

I spent a while trying to hunt down a Ducky 9008 g2 pro with MX Greens but they were sold out everywhere :(.

I wish this Ducky Zero was available with MX greens  :'( I guess there's always the QFR..
I have a feeling at least another Ducky MX Green board might show up in the classifieds...
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: rootwyrm on Fri, 01 February 2013, 21:14:47
Have you tried MX Greens? Those are tough to consistently bottom out on.

I have. I bottom them out as well. Bear in mind, I bottom out Model M's and old Alps as well. It's just the way I type. (I also type extremely fast, no surprise there.) The bottoming out is just normal for me, and really bad with ABS keycaps. They just don't handle friction wear well at all - usually takes me a matter of days at most to shine a spacebar, even PBT. (I rest my thumbs there.)

Still trying to find Fn layer info on the Ducky Zero but no luck.. looks like it doesn't have media controls at all other than mute and volume. I am a sad panda. :(
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: jabar on Fri, 01 February 2013, 22:26:54
Still trying to find Fn layer info on the Ducky Zero but no luck.. looks like it doesn't have media controls at all other than mute and volume. I am a sad panda. :(
I think the Fn key only toggles NKRO mode and the winkey lock. No other media functions that I've seen across promotional materials.

Also, I wonder how a Topre board would fare under your hands (not well I imagine).
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: jlewisnj on Fri, 01 February 2013, 23:45:46
Have you tried MX Greens? Those are tough to consistently bottom out on.
Still trying to find Fn layer info on the Ducky Zero but no luck.. looks like it doesn't have media controls at all other than mute and volume. I am a sad panda. :(
Got my Zero i today.. I can confirm only Fn-F10 (win key lock) & Fn-12 (NK toggle)..

I tried Fn-F1 to Fn-F12 to look for hidden functions and didn't find any.

Also Mute, Vol Down, Vol Up and Calculator

Nice solid board, very happy with it so far!

Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: missalaire on Sat, 16 February 2013, 14:07:15
Any word on a TKL version?
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: Fandom on Sat, 30 March 2013, 21:39:30
Ey guys. Anyone that could do a quick comparison between the Ducky Zero and Ducky Shine 2?

Thank you kindly :)
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: missalaire on Sat, 30 March 2013, 21:43:32
Ey guys. Anyone that could do a quick comparison between the Ducky Zero and Ducky Shine 2?

Thank you kindly :)

LED backlit vs no backlighting
TKL and full size versions vs only full size
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: kelske on Sat, 30 March 2013, 22:20:51
So do these Zero's not have the 4 dip switches on the back? use function layer instead?

That would explain the non-mac compatability descriptor, beacuse even though it probably works fine on Mac, you can't use a dipswictch to swap the Windows and Alt key (to alt + command) at a hardware level like you can with the G2Pro or Shine II.

That price is awesome, if the build quality is comparible to the G2Pro that's rad

Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: ShakeR on Sat, 30 March 2013, 22:26:57
I think MechanicalKeyboards has reported keyboards not being Mac compatible while they actually are.

There are different levels of compatibility: having all the function keys present, and that NKRO hack which doesn't work well with non-Windows systems. I don't think Ducky has the NKRO hack enabled on this keyboard though (unlike the Choc Mini).

This.  We typically say 'No' unless it's 100% confirmed that everything works exactly like you bought the keyboard from Apple.  We're adjusting this though, as many Ducky models are more compatible than some brands who list 'Mac compatible!!!' in their descriptions.   I'm verifying with Ducky again on this now for the Zero.

Regarding Dual PCB: This is just a 'quality / dependability' thing.  I believe it mostly relates to a thicker PCB / deeper electrical connections in the PCB.  It certainly costs more than Single PCB, so they didn't skimp here.

Regarding Price: We had to make special arrangements with Ducky to even carry these models at the MSRP they wanted.  The Zeros are basically being given away at current prices.  The value (imo) can't be beat for a full size board - great entry bang for your buck!

Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: VesperSAINT on Sun, 31 March 2013, 03:05:41
Ey guys. Anyone that could do a quick comparison between the Ducky Zero and Ducky Shine 2?

Thank you kindly :)

Glad to see you actually found this thread which I mentioned in the other thread :D

The only difference is the backlighting. Dual-sided PCB and USB NKRO through dip switch. $78-79... I'm telling you, brother... For that price, you can't go wrong. I don't know of any other mechanical keyboard that has those features for that price.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: Fandom on Sun, 31 March 2013, 18:14:45
Could I possibly inquire about the quality of the keycaps on the Ducky Zero?

And one last thing: any idea where to buy a couple of these bad boys in Europe?
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: VesperSAINT on Sun, 31 March 2013, 18:22:27
The Ducky Zero is fairly new and I haven't had the opportunity to own one just yet but I believe they are laser etched ABS and the windowed ones are double layered ABS. My experience with Ducky ABS keycaps have been awesome. They are sturdy and the durability on them are much better than that of ones on some other brands. In regards to Europe, I don't know of any European vendors that sell these but mechanicalkeyboards.com does international shipping.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: Fandom on Sun, 31 March 2013, 19:18:02
Thanks for all the replies. Is there anyone here that owns one these Zeros and can give us a word or two about the experience? :)

I think I read somewhere that they keys on a Zero might not be interchangeable. Could that be true?

I hate to yank my own chain, but the reason I'm turning to Ducky after Filco has been the very loud keyboard pinging on some keys.. if anyone has a point about the Ducky Zero not sharing this "phenomenon", it would ease my mind (and my wallet of 100$).
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: ShakeR on Sun, 31 March 2013, 23:15:49
Just to follow up: Ducky tells me the Zero is 90% Mac compatible. Unfortunately, that's as specific as they would get. Even though I own a Mac mini, it hasn't been turned on in 3 years and I wouldn't know what to test.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: nsrexler on Mon, 01 April 2013, 09:09:42
I haven't used the Ducky Zero so I'm kind of talking out of my ass, but my experience with keyboard Mac compatibility is that nearly all USB keyboards will work just fine on a Mac. Sometimes media/extra keys won't work, and of course the command/option keys position will be swapped, but everything else will work just fine. Some boards use tricks to achieve NKRO and these usually do NOT work on Macs, but it can be turned off on this Ducky so it shouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: New Ducky Zero's are now available
Post by: jlewisnj on Thu, 18 April 2013, 23:21:39
Thanks for all the replies. Is there anyone here that owns one these Zeros and can give us a word or two about the experience? :)

I think I read somewhere that they keys on a Zero might not be interchangeable. Could that be true?

I hate to yank my own chain, but the reason I'm turning to Ducky after Filco has been the very loud keyboard pinging on some keys.. if anyone has a point about the Ducky Zero not sharing this "phenomenon", it would ease my mind (and my wallet of 100$).

I have had my Ducky Zero since end of January and have nothing to say but great things about it..

I do have a small bit of key shine on my left Alt key, but that can happen with and ABS keycaps and its very very minor. Worst case i will buy a new keycaps..

As for the pinging noise, I don't hear it TBH..  I did a quick recording of me typing at different speeds and pressures, the gain is boosted some and with the mic real close the sound louder than they really are..