LAPD, not surprised here.
I can't believe they didn't get any charges for that. That's pretty f* up. I remember when that story broke a few years ago, and I recall thinking how horrible that recording was. That right there is the definition of police brutality.
To quote the article
"Rackauckas said the officers beat a helpless man, while the officers' attorneys said the lawmen were just doing their job." So I guess that means it's their job to beat a helpless man??? WTF is that?
Not LAPD. Fullerton PD. But LAPD is scum also.
LAPD, not surprised here.
Here's a surprise then.
Not LAPD. Fullerton PD. But LAPD is scum also.
Yup. Something like 12 shots. 11 hit pedestrians and one hit the person they were aiming at.LAPD, not surprised here.
Here's a surprise then.
Not LAPD. Fullerton PD. But LAPD is scum also.
Didn't NYPD also open fire on the street and "accidentally" kill innocents a few years ago?
Police are supposed to be public servants, not overlord thugs who attack you when you don't jump to their commands
One time I saw the police brutality clip, after all these years it appears Darwinism doesn't affect authority or #GUNNS.Yup. Something like 12 shots. 11 hit pedestrians and one hit the person they were aiming at.LAPD, not surprised here.
Here's a surprise then.
Not LAPD. Fullerton PD. But LAPD is scum also.
Didn't NYPD also open fire on the street and "accidentally" kill innocents a few years ago?
I wonder how much longer it will be before most US police departments are operating like 3rd world death squads?They are arming themselves for it that's for sure
I wonder how much longer it will be before most US police departments are operating like 3rd world death squads?They are arming themselves for it that's for sure
i feel like i saw somewhere that this guy was mentally ill. I wonder how long it would have been before he attacked someone because the shadow king or some bull**** told him to.
Its not like they shot a deaf man in the back for "ignoring them." They subdued an insane man who died as a result because of course he did. insane homless people arent exactly shining beacons of good health.
It's quite interesting how nobody cared about this person until now. If they cared, they would have helped him get into an institution to get the help he needed instead of leaving him on the streets. Now it seems this 'family' of his is looking to just make a buck off of his misfortune. If they really cared about him, he wouldn't have been homeless in the first place. In my humble opinion. This is aside from the obvious wrong these police officers committed, which was absolutely unnecessary, given that this homeless person had a mental disability.Of course the family is looking for a payday. But how exactly can he be helped? Facilities for mental health, especially if you're broke, are almost nonexistent. If we started to treat mental health are little more serious we would save ourselves from a lot of headaches.
They are also human beings who deserve some level of fair treatment by people sworn to serve and protect them. I honestly don't know why there aren't state mental health facilities equip to handle these types of calls.I agree that it is sad that it had to come to this. I also agree that there should be some sort of place for the mentally unwell to receive treatment. My thoughts on his parents arent too far off from yours, but I am willing to accept that it may be harder to deal with as a parent than it might seem at face value.
Also, I find it pretty F* up that the family is sad now that their son is dead, when the poor guy has been homeless for who knows how long. If you don't help your kids seek assistance for mental health issues, if you allow your kids to be homeless, if you've turned your back on them till this point, then you've failed as a parent.
It's a sad story regardless.
They are also human beings who deserve some level of fair treatment by people sworn to serve and protect them. I honestly don't know why there aren't state mental health facilities equip to handle these types of calls.I agree that it is sad that it had to come to this. I also agree that there should be some sort of place for the mentally unwell to receive treatment. My thoughts on his parents arent too far off from yours, but I am willing to accept that it may be harder to deal with as a parent than it might seem at face value.
Also, I find it pretty F* up that the family is sad now that their son is dead, when the poor guy has been homeless for who knows how long. If you don't help your kids seek assistance for mental health issues, if you allow your kids to be homeless, if you've turned your back on them till this point, then you've failed as a parent.
It's a sad story regardless.
Where I disagree with you is your statement that the police had/have a duty to protect the individual. In my mind, the police are there to protect and serve society as a whole. Imagine theres a thief going around town stealing everyones stuff. Is it the job of the police to stop societies things being stolen or is it their job to treat the thief gently so he isnt damaged?
They crushed his windpipe, and when he said he couldn't breathe they simply ignored his cries for help.
LAPD, not surprised here.
Here's a surprise then.
Not LAPD. Fullerton PD. But LAPD is scum also.
If this happened to you, even though it was a rare occurrence, would that make it OK?
They crushed his windpipe, and when he said he couldn't breathe they simply ignored his cries for help.
I'm just curious what, exactly, they were supposed to do to help him at that point? If you were in their shoes, what would you have done? Would you just release the person (who had a history of drug use and mental issues) that was violently resisting you because they cried for help?
They told him repeatedly to calm down, relax, move his arms, etc. so that they could restrain him, but he wouldn't comply. It took about 10 minutes, several tasers, and about 5 guys to finally restrain him. Once it was safe, the paramedics started tending to him.
Now don't get me wrong, Ramos was definitely treating him like a **** and provoked the situation in the first place - I'm surprised he was acquitted of all charges, actually - but to say that they "ignored his cries for help" is a bit unfair.
If a normal civilian walked up to another normal civilian and began barking orders and commands, and threatening to use force if the other person didn't comply... and then that other person whipped the snot out of the aggressor, that aggressor would not be protected by law, because he initiated the confrontation and instigated the event, until it escalated to violence.
They crushed his windpipe, and when he said he couldn't breathe they simply ignored his cries for help.
I'm just curious what, exactly, they were supposed to do to help him at that point? If you were in their shoes, what would you have done? Would you just release the person (who had a history of drug use and mental issues) that was violently resisting you because they cried for help?
They told him repeatedly to calm down, relax, move his arms, etc. so that they could restrain him, but he wouldn't comply. It took about 10 minutes, several tasers, and about 5 guys to finally restrain him. Once it was safe, the paramedics started tending to him.
Now don't get me wrong, Ramos was definitely treating him like a **** and provoked the situation in the first place - I'm surprised he was acquitted of all charges, actually - but to say that they "ignored his cries for help" is a bit unfair.
I was under the impression that the paramedics were called to the scene and when they arrived the officers had the paramedics treat their own self inflicted scrapes while he suffocated to death?
Thomas's father, Ron, listened as a paramedic testified that he was first directed to treat an officer's minor injury, then happened to notice Thomas lying unconscious in a pool of blood.
If this happened to you, even though it was a rare occurrence, would that make it OK?
don't distort my words..
I am not talking about THAT...
I'm agree this is a Malicious incident, but it is NOT a large social issue...
I was under the impression that the paramedics were called to the scene and when they arrived the officers had the paramedics treat their own self inflicted scrapes while he suffocated to death?
If this happened to you, even though it was a rare occurrence, would that make it OK?
don't distort my words..
I am not talking about THAT...
I'm agree this is a Malicious incident, but it is NOT a large social issue...
I believe it is a large social issue. Police everywhere are becoming violent and militant. In Canada, a relatively peaceful country, people have been tasered to death when there was no need to use a taser at all. At the G20 in Toronto, police acted in a way that I've never seen before in this country.
I even noticed the change personally. One day, I went for a walk on a country road and I was stopped by police for no reason - something that has never happened to me before. They demanded my name and started typing into a computer. I politely said I was simply going for a morning walk and I didn't want my name in the computer. They called for backup and refused to let me continue until I gave my name. There were 2 police cars with flashing lights and they were stopping me from walking down a country road. It felt like I was in Nazi Germany, not Canada. Eventually I gave them my name. I'm sure if I didn't, they would probably have arrested me, taken me to jail for a strip/cavity search (standard things these days - mostly to humiliate), possibly tasered.
This is NOT the way it used to be. Things have radically changed in the past 10-15 years.
I was under the impression that the paramedics were called to the scene and when they arrived the officers had the paramedics treat their own self inflicted scrapes while he suffocated to death?
Well, I honestly don't know for sure. From what I could tell from the video, when the paramedics arrived, Thomas was still wrestling with 3-5 cops and had yet to be safely subdued. No way would the paramedics attempt to approach and treat him under those conditions, so they tended to the officers first. If he had been subdued when they arrived, they still may have treated the officers first - I really can't say. Like I said I don't know the exact sequence of events, but from what I could see it wasn't a matter of them just ignoring Thomas, they just couldn't safely do anything for him at the time.
If this happened to you, even though it was a rare occurrence, would that make it OK?
don't distort my words..
I am not talking about THAT...
I'm agree this is a Malicious incident, but it is NOT a large social issue...
I believe it is a large social issue. Police everywhere are becoming violent and militant. In Canada, a relatively peaceful country, people have been tasered to death when there was no need to use a taser at all. At the G20 in Toronto, police acted in a way that I've never seen before in this country.
I even noticed the change personally. One day, I went for a walk on a country road and I was stopped by police for no reason - something that has never happened to me before. They demanded my name and started typing into a computer. I politely said I was simply going for a morning walk and I didn't want my name in the computer. They called for backup and refused to let me continue until I gave my name. There were 2 police cars with flashing lights and they were stopping me from walking down a country road. It felt like I was in Nazi Germany, not Canada. Eventually I gave them my name. I'm sure if I didn't, they would probably have arrested me, taken me to jail for a strip/cavity search (standard things these days - mostly to humiliate), possibly tasered.
This is NOT the way it used to be. Things have radically changed in the past 10-15 years.
Police state. This is what the world will become if nothing is done. If we treat this as "not a large social issue". When it becomes a "large social issue" it'll be too late.I was under the impression that the paramedics were called to the scene and when they arrived the officers had the paramedics treat their own self inflicted scrapes while he suffocated to death?
Well, I honestly don't know for sure. From what I could tell from the video, when the paramedics arrived, Thomas was still wrestling with 3-5 cops and had yet to be safely subdued. No way would the paramedics attempt to approach and treat him under those conditions, so they tended to the officers first. If he had been subdued when they arrived, they still may have treated the officers first - I really can't say. Like I said I don't know the exact sequence of events, but from what I could see it wasn't a matter of them just ignoring Thomas, they just couldn't safely do anything for him at the time.
paramedic testified they were told to treat an officer with a minor injury first. nobody told them about thomas. paramedic turned around and saw him. i quoted the article in my prior reply.
Growing up on a routine of watching Dragnet and Adam-12, yes I'm old, I believed in the upright, virtuous police officer. The years have altered that opinion.
I have seen too many examples of control hungry men and women in uniform. I think a certain type of person is drawn to the profession; a person who likes to make a split second decision and have the confidence to never second guess it, a person who enforces the laws but believes he is exempt from observing them, a person who enjoys being part of a privileged esoteric group and a person who likes being in charge.
Those characteristics coupled with a role that actually encourages those qualities is concomitant with occurrences such as the Kelly Thomas beating.
Unfortunately, my opinion of the role of the police is that of being a necessary evil. A gang that we have some controls over sanctioned by us to to protect us from complete lawlessness. I'm sure most cops are decent and they have a difficult job. I know I wouldn't want it. Because of that I will continue to respect any officer until he gives me reason to think otherwise.
Being a Fullerton resident for 40+ years, I had one run-in with the FPD. I was pulled over and cited for not having my seat belt on. The officer was respectful and after telling me the fine would only be $45, he explained that he just wanted me to be safe. Of course the irony was not missed when he then mounted his MOTORCYCLE and rode off. I left wondering how our injuries would compare if we went head on, him on his bike, and me unbuckled in my F-350.
POLICE state is NOT a freaking social issue... and it will NEVER become one in developed nations..
paramedic testified they were told to treat an officer with a minor injury first. nobody told them about thomas. paramedic turned around and saw him. i quoted the article in my prior reply.
It's called being above the law. It's called corruption. It's called being an officer.
Abuse of power is not absolutely synonymous with a police state.
...
Abuse of power is not absolutely synonymous with a police state.
...
Ok... well to me this looks like a police state:Show Image(http://original.antiwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/923074_10151463429718859_2120246264_n.jpg)
But let's not talk about that... after all its always been like this so its cool :thumb:
Abuse of power is not absolutely synonymous with a police state.
...
Ok... well to me this looks like a police state:Show Image(http://original.antiwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/923074_10151463429718859_2120246264_n.jpg)
But let's not talk about that... after all its always been like this so its cool :thumb:
Well that's a picture of law enforcement deployed after the Boston Bombing, what do you expect?
You can't point at this picture and say look it's a police state because this sort of response is somewhat warranted and arguably appropriate immediately after terrorist attacks.
...
I think you've illustrated my point.
You're so accustomed to crying police state at every police action you see that you don't differentiate between situations that require stronger police action and situations that clearly don't.
...
I think you've illustrated my point.
You're so accustomed to crying police state at every police action you see that you don't differentiate between situations that require stronger police action and situations that clearly don't.
Locking down an entire city with thousands of "officers", military vehicles and "assault rifles" is clear not warranted when trying to arrest an unarmed pot smoking teenager (who as it happens wasn't even in the lockdown area).
Police in North America are becoming violent and militant.oh, that's bad.
...
I think you've illustrated my point.
You're so accustomed to crying police state at every police action you see that you don't differentiate between situations that require stronger police action and situations that clearly don't.
Locking down an entire city with thousands of "officers", military vehicles and "assault rifles" is clear not warranted when trying to arrest an unarmed pot smoking teenager (who as it happens wasn't even in the lockdown area).
That said I'm glad I illustrated your point for you. Clearly I'm delusional, so I'm just going to go grab some Kool-aid and from now on stick to talking about keyboards on geekhack.
...
I think you've illustrated my point.
You're so accustomed to crying police state at every police action you see that you don't differentiate between situations that require stronger police action and situations that clearly don't.
Locking down an entire city with thousands of "officers", military vehicles and "assault rifles" is clear not warranted when trying to arrest an unarmed pot smoking teenager (who as it happens wasn't even in the lockdown area).
That said I'm glad I illustrated your point for you. Clearly I'm delusional, so I'm just going to go grab some Kool-aid and from now on stick to talking about keyboards on geekhack.
I like how police said they "exchanged gunfire" with the unarmed Boston bombing suspect. (still only a suspect because he pleaded not guilty and hasn't been found guilty yet)
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/04/tsarnaev-was-unarmed-during-the-boat-shootout.html (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/04/tsarnaev-was-unarmed-during-the-boat-shootout.html)
There appears to be only one American politician with any sense regarding the Boston lockdown:
http://www.the-free-foundation.org/tst4-29-2013.html (http://www.the-free-foundation.org/tst4-29-2013.html)
I guarantee we'll be seeing more of this in the future:
and I'm sure we can look forward to plenty of "checkpoints":Show Image(http://beforeitsnews.com/mediadrop/uploads/2014/02/2ad54a300a941c34616ffc63571fecf3fbd72c47.jpg)
I better go and "shelter in place" now.
...
I think you've illustrated my point.
You're so accustomed to crying police state at every police action you see that you don't differentiate between situations that require stronger police action and situations that clearly don't.
Locking down an entire city with thousands of "officers", military vehicles and "assault rifles" is clear not warranted when trying to arrest an unarmed pot smoking teenager (who as it happens wasn't even in the lockdown area).
That said I'm glad I illustrated your point for you. Clearly I'm delusional, so I'm just going to go grab some Kool-aid and from now on stick to talking about keyboards on geekhack.
I like how police said they "exchanged gunfire" with the unarmed Boston bombing suspect. (still only a suspect because he pleaded not guilty and hasn't been found guilty yet)
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/04/tsarnaev-was-unarmed-during-the-boat-shootout.html (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/04/tsarnaev-was-unarmed-during-the-boat-shootout.html)
There appears to be only one American politician with any sense regarding the Boston lockdown:
http://www.the-free-foundation.org/tst4-29-2013.html (http://www.the-free-foundation.org/tst4-29-2013.html)
I guarantee we'll be seeing more of this in the future:
and I'm sure we can look forward to plenty of "checkpoints":Show Image(http://beforeitsnews.com/mediadrop/uploads/2014/02/2ad54a300a941c34616ffc63571fecf3fbd72c47.jpg)
I better go and "shelter in place" now.
Don't misrepresent what I said or take it out of context.
You know I did point at Waco and other things right?
It's one thing to say that strong arming citizens is not effective or proper in a democracy and to point out some of the things written in here -> http://www.the-free-foundation.org/tst4-29-2013.html
And it's a completely other thing to do this.Show Image(http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130318061029/starwars/images/f/fc/Stormtrooper_Corps.png)Show Image(http://rasica.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/obama-hitler-purple.jpg)Show Image(http://rexcurry.net/fascism%3Dsocialism-nazi-eagle-hitler-third-reich-usa.jpg)Show Image(http://www.trevorloudon.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/obama_poster_hitler_yesweca2.gif)Show Image(http://newsbusters.org/sites/default/files/main_photos/2011/January/Bush%20Hitler.jpg)
Are you in fear now?
Don't misrepresent what I said or take it out of context.
You know I did point at Waco and other things right?
It's one thing to say that strong arming citizens is not effective or proper in a democracy and to point out some of the things written in here -> http://www.the-free-foundation.org/tst4-29-2013.html
And it's a completely other thing to do this.
Its not like they shot a deaf man in the back for "ignoring them."
allegedly fleeing the scene of an automobile accident.
I wanna machine gun.move to arizona. they have cookies.
But I have no idea what I would do with it.
I wanna machine gun.move to arizona. they have cookies.
But I have no idea what I would do with it.