Kelly Thomas murderers walk free.

[demik]

Cops can kill with no consequences. On camera. And nothing will happen to them.

Justice system is ****ing disgusting.

[Tym]

I (different topic) heard about that incident of affluenze, that was horrific.

[osi]

LAPD, not surprised here.

[Wildcard]

I can't believe they didn't get any charges for that. That's pretty f* up. I remember when that story broke a few years ago, and I recall thinking how horrible that recording was. That right there is the definition of police brutality.

To quote the article

"Rackauckas said the officers beat a helpless man, while the officers' attorneys said the lawmen were just doing their job." So I guess that means it's their job to beat a helpless man??? WTF is that?

[kenmai9]

Was it LAPD? Fullerton is in Orange County.

[demik]

LAPD, not surprised here.

Here's a surprise then.

Not LAPD. Fullerton PD. But LAPD is scum also.

I can't believe they didn't get any charges for that. That's pretty f* up. I remember when that story broke a few years ago, and I recall thinking how horrible that recording was. That right there is the definition of police brutality.

To quote the article

"Rackauckas said the officers beat a helpless man, while the officers' attorneys said the lawmen were just doing their job." So I guess that means it's their job to beat a helpless man??? WTF is that?

It's called being above the law. It's called corruption. It's called being an officer.

[Michael]

Not LAPD. Fullerton PD. But LAPD is scum also.

Wow. I was from Fullerton lol. Never figured them to be that bad.

[baldgye]

As a European I find it fascinating, as either side of me (sort of) I have two societies that are polar opposites, but because they strive to be the exact opposite of each other (socialism and capitalism) they end up being exactly the same.

Not saying Europe is perfect or anything...

[paicrai]

LAPD, not surprised here.

Here's a surprise then.

Not LAPD. Fullerton PD. But LAPD is scum also.

Didn't NYPD also open fire on the street and "accidentally" kill innocents a few years ago?

[demik]

LAPD, not surprised here.

Here's a surprise then.

Not LAPD. Fullerton PD. But LAPD is scum also.

Didn't NYPD also open fire on the street and "accidentally" kill innocents a few years ago?

Yup. Something like 12 shots. 11 hit pedestrians and one hit the person they were aiming at.

[iri]

did thomas pull a wallet?..

[demik]

Nope. He was homeless and mentally ill. Which basically means that he was a threat to two armed officers and he deserved to have his face beaten in. Picture is graphic to post here but you can Google it and you'll see the damage.

[mr_a500]

This is absolutely sickening. These police should not only have been found guilty, but they should have received maximum sentences to set an example that this sort of thing won't be tolerated. (they certainly "set examples" with huge sentences for whistleblowers and people who expose government corruption) But no, the message is that this brutal behaviour is perfectly fine and police can carry on doing whatever they want.

Police are supposed to be public servants, not overlord thugs who attack you when you don't jump to their commands. And what the hell happened to the term "excessive force"? If it's reasonable force to kill an unarmed suspect (charged with no crime, who politely follows commands up until he's hit in the back, then tries to defend himself), what does "excessive force" mean now? You can brutally beat and kill an unarmed suspect, but you just can't dismember them??

[demik]

Police are supposed to be public servants, not overlord thugs who attack you when you don't jump to their commands

Ah. That's what you'd think, right? Well, not according to the NYPD and judges. I'm on my phone so I'll give you the quick version.

Man attacked on subway. Cops hide behind door until man subdues attacker. Police step in. Victim sues nypd for doing nothing. Judge says cops aren't here to protect civilians. They are here to uphold the law.

Paid vacations. Paid vacations everywhere.

[paicrai]

LAPD, not surprised here.

Here's a surprise then.

Not LAPD. Fullerton PD. But LAPD is scum also.

Didn't NYPD also open fire on the street and "accidentally" kill innocents a few years ago?

Yup. Something like 12 shots. 11 hit pedestrians and one hit the person they were aiming at.

One time I saw the police brutality clip, after all these years it appears Darwinism doesn't affect authority or #GUNNS.

Aren't there any movements, petitions or actions against corruption and idealist leaders and other people of authority? Well, guess they'd be arrested for disruption of whatever the **** or some ****. Cease and desist, stand down, hands on your ass and dance, surrender now, or we will be forced to use force unlike that clip of rounds I just Velcroed to your fat ass 9 seconds ago etc.

[demik]

There is activists against police brutality. But they get bullied eventually. Arrest on false charges. Terrorized by cops. And for what? So a judge let's him go or his corrupt union protects him. It's a losing battle. Soon the people will get tired of the ****. Hopefully.

[IvanIvanovich]

I wonder how much longer it will be before most US police departments are operating like 3rd world death squads?

[paicrai]

Basically there will be a large civil war/revolution all over the world? Or at least America.

The citizens rising against the city's corrupt leaders, tracking their location by hacking surveillance and tracing electronics, breaking down doors and windows storming the building and beating down the police to reach the corrupt leader and fug him upp

Later, when all the the targets are eliminated, the strictest elections ever happen. The person who wins the election can be killed if the majority disagrees or something like that.
And after all the ruckus, the world is as near perfect as they could get.

That's super exaggerated and stupid, but it'd be kinda cool.

[demik]

I wonder how much longer it will be before most US police departments are operating like 3rd world death squads?

They are arming themselves for it that's for sure

[SpAmRaY]

I wonder how much longer it will be before most US police departments are operating like 3rd world death squads?

They are arming themselves for it that's for sure

Everyone should be arming themselves....oh wait....this isn't the conspiracy thread.....

[kolonelkadat]

i feel like i saw somewhere that this guy was mentally ill. I wonder how long it would have been before he attacked someone because the shadow king or some bull**** told him to.

eta: oh wait. he already did. Between 1990 and 2011, Thomas had 92 encounters with the police. These encounters ranged from minor infractions such as trespassing to assault with a deadly weapon.

Its not like they shot a deaf man in the back for "ignoring them." They subdued an insane man who died as a result because of course he did. insane homless people arent exactly shining beacons of good health.

[demik]

Another thought out reply by kolonel.

[Wildcard]

i feel like i saw somewhere that this guy was mentally ill. I wonder how long it would have been before he attacked someone because the shadow king or some bull**** told him to.

Its not like they shot a deaf man in the back for "ignoring them." They subdued an insane man who died as a result because of course he did. insane homless people arent exactly shining beacons of good health.

They are also human beings who deserve some level of fair treatment by people sworn to serve and protect them. I honestly don't know why there aren't state mental health facilities equip to handle these types of calls.

They crushed his windpipe, and when he said he couldn't breathe they simply ignored his cries for help. I don't care if they were doing their jobs or not. There's a level of human decency here that appears to have been ignored because he was homeless.

Also, I find it pretty F* up that the family is sad now that their son is dead, when the poor guy has been homeless for who knows how long. If you don't help your kids seek assistance for mental health issues, if you allow your kids to be homeless, if you've turned your back on them till this point, then you've failed as a parent.

It's a sad story regardless.

[Michael]

It's quite interesting how nobody cared about this person until now. If they cared, they would have helped him get into an institution to get the help he needed instead of leaving him on the streets. Now it seems this 'family' of his is looking to just make a buck off of his misfortune. If they really cared about him, he wouldn't have been homeless in the first place. In my humble opinion. This is aside from the obvious wrong these police officers committed, which was absolutely unnecessary, given that this homeless person had a mental disability.

[demik]

It's quite interesting how nobody cared about this person until now. If they cared, they would have helped him get into an institution to get the help he needed instead of leaving him on the streets. Now it seems this 'family' of his is looking to just make a buck off of his misfortune. If they really cared about him, he wouldn't have been homeless in the first place. In my humble opinion. This is aside from the obvious wrong these police officers committed, which was absolutely unnecessary, given that this homeless person had a mental disability.

Of course the family is looking for a payday. But how exactly can he be helped? Facilities for mental health,  especially if you're broke, are almost nonexistent. If we started to treat mental health are little more serious we would save ourselves from a lot of headaches.

[kolonelkadat]

They are also human beings who deserve some level of fair treatment by people sworn to serve and protect them. I honestly don't know why there aren't state mental health facilities equip to handle these types of calls.

Also, I find it pretty F* up that the family is sad now that their son is dead, when the poor guy has been homeless for who knows how long. If you don't help your kids seek assistance for mental health issues, if you allow your kids to be homeless, if you've turned your back on them till this point, then you've failed as a parent.

It's a sad story regardless.

I agree that it is sad that it had to come to this. I also agree that there should be some sort of place for the mentally unwell to receive treatment. My thoughts on his parents arent too far off from yours, but I am willing to accept that it may be harder to deal with as a parent than it might seem at face value.

Where I disagree with you is your statement that the police had/have a duty to protect the individual. In my mind, the police are there to protect and serve society as a whole. Imagine theres a thief going around town stealing everyones stuff. Is it the job of the police to stop societies things being stolen or is it their job to treat the thief gently so he isnt damaged?

[baldgye]

They are also human beings who deserve some level of fair treatment by people sworn to serve and protect them. I honestly don't know why there aren't state mental health facilities equip to handle these types of calls.

Also, I find it pretty F* up that the family is sad now that their son is dead, when the poor guy has been homeless for who knows how long. If you don't help your kids seek assistance for mental health issues, if you allow your kids to be homeless, if you've turned your back on them till this point, then you've failed as a parent.

It's a sad story regardless.

I agree that it is sad that it had to come to this. I also agree that there should be some sort of place for the mentally unwell to receive treatment. My thoughts on his parents arent too far off from yours, but I am willing to accept that it may be harder to deal with as a parent than it might seem at face value.

Where I disagree with you is your statement that the police had/have a duty to protect the individual. In my mind, the police are there to protect and serve society as a whole. Imagine theres a thief going around town stealing everyones stuff. Is it the job of the police to stop societies things being stolen or is it their job to treat the thief gently so he isnt damaged?

So they should beat thief's into bloody pulps?

[piglickjf]

They crushed his windpipe, and when he said he couldn't breathe they simply ignored his cries for help.

I'm just curious what, exactly, they were supposed to do to help him at that point? If you were in their shoes, what would you have done? Would you just release the person (who had a history of drug use and mental issues) that was violently resisting you because they cried for help?

They told him repeatedly to calm down, relax, move his arms, etc. so that they could restrain him, but he wouldn't comply. It took about 10 minutes, several tasers, and about 5 guys to finally restrain him. Once it was safe, the paramedics started tending to him.

Now don't get me wrong, Ramos was definitely treating him like a **** and provoked the situation in the first place - I'm surprised he was acquitted of all charges, actually - but to say that they "ignored his cries for help" is a bit unfair.

[ferociousfingerings]

They are hired muscle, paid enforcers who have to make decisions about what is or isn't "the law," in the midst of dangerous situations.

There are plenty of laws which should not even be laws. I can't respect anyone who uses force to compel someone to comply with injustice.

If a normal civilian walked up to another normal civilian and began barking orders and commands, and threatening to use force if the other person didn't comply... and then that other person whipped the snot out of the aggressor, that aggressor would not be protected by law, because he initiated the confrontation and instigated the event, until it escalated to violence.

Slap a badge on 'em, and it's an entirely different scenario.

[osi]

LAPD, not surprised here.

Here's a surprise then.

Not LAPD. Fullerton PD. But LAPD is scum also.

*stands corrected
*needs reading comprehension class

[tp4tissue]

I'm not sure what you guys are worried about.

It's certainly "not good", but these are.............

Isolated incidents...

Even if we had thousands of unjust police brutalities a year..  That wouldn't amount to much in the grand scheme...

[mr_a500]

If this happened to you, even though it was a rare occurrence, would that make it OK?

[tp4tissue]

If this happened to you, even though it was a rare occurrence, would that make it OK?

don't distort my words..

I am not talking about THAT...

I'm agree this is a Malicious incident, but it is NOT a large social issue...  Police arn't inherently out to beat random people up....   There's no incentive for police to behave badly...    If they do, it's a small one -off poorly handled event, out of millions of ones that turned out fine..



Of course the entertainment news networks will put something like this front and center to get people's attention..

And silly people go for it.



By large social issue, we should be worried about recycling,  wasted food,  wasted water...

because THAT actually amounts to a huge draw on resources..

[Wildcard]

They crushed his windpipe, and when he said he couldn't breathe they simply ignored his cries for help.

I'm just curious what, exactly, they were supposed to do to help him at that point? If you were in their shoes, what would you have done? Would you just release the person (who had a history of drug use and mental issues) that was violently resisting you because they cried for help?

They told him repeatedly to calm down, relax, move his arms, etc. so that they could restrain him, but he wouldn't comply. It took about 10 minutes, several tasers, and about 5 guys to finally restrain him. Once it was safe, the paramedics started tending to him.

Now don't get me wrong, Ramos was definitely treating him like a **** and provoked the situation in the first place - I'm surprised he was acquitted of all charges, actually - but to say that they "ignored his cries for help" is a bit unfair.

I was under the impression that the paramedics were called to the scene and when they arrived the officers had the paramedics treat their own self inflicted scrapes while he suffocated to death?

[Wildcard]

It's very sad how he was treated regardless.

[piglickjf]

If a normal civilian walked up to another normal civilian and began barking orders and commands, and threatening to use force if the other person didn't comply... and then that other person whipped the snot out of the aggressor, that aggressor would not be protected by law, because he initiated the confrontation and instigated the event, until it escalated to violence.

Well, it probably depends somewhat on the jurisdiction, and it's of course highly situational, but that's not necessarily true. Someone can harass, threaten, and bark orders at someone all they want, but if that "victim" then turns around and assaults the other, they are the one who has committed a crime and very well could be charged/prosecuted for it.

Of course, that's not really what happened in this case, either. Although Thomas was being a bit difficult, Ramos was the one that started threatening violence and was also the one to initiate physical contact, largely unprovoked. Like I said, he was being a **** and his actions caused the whole incident in the first place. Not that Thomas couldn't have made better choices himself, but I hold the officer(s) to a higher standard, since they are supposed to have the training, discipline, and self-control to handle these types of situations.

[demik]

They crushed his windpipe, and when he said he couldn't breathe they simply ignored his cries for help.

I'm just curious what, exactly, they were supposed to do to help him at that point? If you were in their shoes, what would you have done? Would you just release the person (who had a history of drug use and mental issues) that was violently resisting you because they cried for help?

They told him repeatedly to calm down, relax, move his arms, etc. so that they could restrain him, but he wouldn't comply. It took about 10 minutes, several tasers, and about 5 guys to finally restrain him. Once it was safe, the paramedics started tending to him.

Now don't get me wrong, Ramos was definitely treating him like a **** and provoked the situation in the first place - I'm surprised he was acquitted of all charges, actually - but to say that they "ignored his cries for help" is a bit unfair.

I was under the impression that the paramedics were called to the scene and when they arrived the officers had the paramedics treat their own self inflicted scrapes while he suffocated to death?

yup

Thomas's father, Ron, listened as a paramedic testified that he was first directed to treat an officer's minor injury, then happened to notice Thomas lying unconscious in a pool of blood.

[mr_a500]

If this happened to you, even though it was a rare occurrence, would that make it OK?

don't distort my words..

I am not talking about THAT...

I'm agree this is a Malicious incident, but it is NOT a large social issue...

I believe it is a large social issue. Police everywhere are becoming violent and militant. In Canada, a relatively peaceful country, people have been tasered to death when there was no need to use a taser at all. At the G20 in Toronto, police acted in a way that I've never seen before in this country.

I even noticed the change personally. One day, I went for a walk on a country road and I was stopped by police for no reason - something that has never happened to me before. They demanded my name and started typing into a computer. I politely said I was simply going for a morning walk and I didn't want my name in the computer. They called for backup and refused to let me continue until I gave my name. There were 2 police cars with flashing lights and they were stopping me from walking down a country road. It felt like I was in Nazi Germany, not Canada. Eventually I gave them my name. I'm sure if I didn't, they would probably have arrested me, taken me to jail for a strip/cavity search (standard things these days - mostly to humiliate), possibly tasered.

This is NOT the way it used to be. Things have radically changed in the past 10-15 years.

[piglickjf]

I was under the impression that the paramedics were called to the scene and when they arrived the officers had the paramedics treat their own self inflicted scrapes while he suffocated to death?

Well, I honestly don't know for sure. From what I could tell from the video, when the paramedics arrived, Thomas was still wrestling with 3-5 cops and had yet to be safely subdued. No way would the paramedics attempt to approach and treat him under those conditions, so they tended to the officers first. If he had been subdued when they arrived, they still may have treated the officers first - I really can't say. Like I said I don't know the exact sequence of events, but from what I could see it wasn't a matter of them just ignoring Thomas, they just couldn't safely do anything for him at the time.

[demik]

If this happened to you, even though it was a rare occurrence, would that make it OK?

don't distort my words..

I am not talking about THAT...

I'm agree this is a Malicious incident, but it is NOT a large social issue...

I believe it is a large social issue. Police everywhere are becoming violent and militant. In Canada, a relatively peaceful country, people have been tasered to death when there was no need to use a taser at all. At the G20 in Toronto, police acted in a way that I've never seen before in this country.

I even noticed the change personally. One day, I went for a walk on a country road and I was stopped by police for no reason - something that has never happened to me before. They demanded my name and started typing into a computer. I politely said I was simply going for a morning walk and I didn't want my name in the computer. They called for backup and refused to let me continue until I gave my name. There were 2 police cars with flashing lights and they were stopping me from walking down a country road. It felt like I was in Nazi Germany, not Canada. Eventually I gave them my name. I'm sure if I didn't, they would probably have arrested me, taken me to jail for a strip/cavity search (standard things these days - mostly to humiliate), possibly tasered.

This is NOT the way it used to be. Things have radically changed in the past 10-15 years.

Police state. This is what the world will become if nothing is done. If we treat this as "not a large social issue". When it becomes a "large social issue" it'll be too late.

I was under the impression that the paramedics were called to the scene and when they arrived the officers had the paramedics treat their own self inflicted scrapes while he suffocated to death?

Well, I honestly don't know for sure. From what I could tell from the video, when the paramedics arrived, Thomas was still wrestling with 3-5 cops and had yet to be safely subdued. No way would the paramedics attempt to approach and treat him under those conditions, so they tended to the officers first. If he had been subdued when they arrived, they still may have treated the officers first - I really can't say. Like I said I don't know the exact sequence of events, but from what I could see it wasn't a matter of them just ignoring Thomas, they just couldn't safely do anything for him at the time.

paramedic testified they were told to treat an officer with a minor injury first. nobody told them about thomas. paramedic turned around and saw him. i quoted the article in my prior reply.

[tp4tissue]

If this happened to you, even though it was a rare occurrence, would that make it OK?

don't distort my words..

I am not talking about THAT...

I'm agree this is a Malicious incident, but it is NOT a large social issue...

I believe it is a large social issue. Police everywhere are becoming violent and militant. In Canada, a relatively peaceful country, people have been tasered to death when there was no need to use a taser at all. At the G20 in Toronto, police acted in a way that I've never seen before in this country.

I even noticed the change personally. One day, I went for a walk on a country road and I was stopped by police for no reason - something that has never happened to me before. They demanded my name and started typing into a computer. I politely said I was simply going for a morning walk and I didn't want my name in the computer. They called for backup and refused to let me continue until I gave my name. There were 2 police cars with flashing lights and they were stopping me from walking down a country road. It felt like I was in Nazi Germany, not Canada. Eventually I gave them my name. I'm sure if I didn't, they would probably have arrested me, taken me to jail for a strip/cavity search (standard things these days - mostly to humiliate), possibly tasered.

This is NOT the way it used to be. Things have radically changed in the past 10-15 years.

Police state. This is what the world will become if nothing is done. If we treat this as "not a large social issue". When it becomes a "large social issue" it'll be too late.

I was under the impression that the paramedics were called to the scene and when they arrived the officers had the paramedics treat their own self inflicted scrapes while he suffocated to death?

Well, I honestly don't know for sure. From what I could tell from the video, when the paramedics arrived, Thomas was still wrestling with 3-5 cops and had yet to be safely subdued. No way would the paramedics attempt to approach and treat him under those conditions, so they tended to the officers first. If he had been subdued when they arrived, they still may have treated the officers first - I really can't say. Like I said I don't know the exact sequence of events, but from what I could see it wasn't a matter of them just ignoring Thomas, they just couldn't safely do anything for him at the time.

paramedic testified they were told to treat an officer with a minor injury first. nobody told them about thomas. paramedic turned around and saw him. i quoted the article in my prior reply.

Police state is IMPOSSIBLE at the scale of the WHOLE WORLD....

No amount of organization can completely oppress our entire population


The 2 types of true police states we've EVER had is

1, during wartime, where people willingly subject to marshal law

2, VERY small countries of poverty where only very few guns are needed to kill everyone, and the general population is too skinny to fight..


IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for a true police state to ever happen in say.. USA.. .    NO ONE would ever try to organize one, because think about what you'll be trying to oppress...   millions of HEALTHY, WELL _FED adult, while many of them already have guns...


NO FFFFING way....


POLICE state is NOT a freaking social issue... and it will NEVER become one in developed nations..

[kurplop]

Growing up on a routine of watching Dragnet and Adam-12, yes I'm old, I believed in the upright, virtuous police officer. The years have altered that opinion.

 I have seen too many examples of control hungry men and women in uniform. I think a certain type of person is drawn to the profession; a person who likes to make a split second decision and have the confidence to never second guess it, a person who enforces the laws but believes he is exempt from observing them, a person who enjoys being part of a privileged esoteric group and a person who likes being in charge.

Those characteristics coupled with a role that actually encourages those qualities is concomitant with occurrences such as the Kelly Thomas beating.

Unfortunately, my opinion of the role of the police is that of being a necessary evil. A gang that we have some controls over sanctioned by us to to protect us from complete lawlessness. I'm sure most cops are decent and they have a difficult job. I know I wouldn't want it. Because of that I will continue to respect any officer until he gives me reason to think otherwise.

Being a Fullerton resident for 40+ years, I had one run-in with the FPD. I was pulled over and cited for not having my seat belt on. The officer was respectful and after telling me the fine would only be $45, he explained that he just wanted me to be safe.  Of course the irony was not missed when he then mounted his MOTORCYCLE and rode off. I left wondering how our injuries would compare if we went head on, him on his bike, and me unbuckled in my F-350.

[tp4tissue]

Growing up on a routine of watching Dragnet and Adam-12, yes I'm old, I believed in the upright, virtuous police officer. The years have altered that opinion.

 I have seen too many examples of control hungry men and women in uniform. I think a certain type of person is drawn to the profession; a person who likes to make a split second decision and have the confidence to never second guess it, a person who enforces the laws but believes he is exempt from observing them, a person who enjoys being part of a privileged esoteric group and a person who likes being in charge.

Those characteristics coupled with a role that actually encourages those qualities is concomitant with occurrences such as the Kelly Thomas beating.

Unfortunately, my opinion of the role of the police is that of being a necessary evil. A gang that we have some controls over sanctioned by us to to protect us from complete lawlessness. I'm sure most cops are decent and they have a difficult job. I know I wouldn't want it. Because of that I will continue to respect any officer until he gives me reason to think otherwise.

Being a Fullerton resident for 40+ years, I had one run-in with the FPD. I was pulled over and cited for not having my seat belt on. The officer was respectful and after telling me the fine would only be $45, he explained that he just wanted me to be safe.  Of course the irony was not missed when he then mounted his MOTORCYCLE and rode off. I left wondering how our injuries would compare if we went head on, him on his bike, and me unbuckled in my F-350.

I don't really think we need "better cops"..  They're influence is mostly symbolic.. case-crime clear rates are what 30%?

and that's only reported ones... unreported is order of magnitude larger.

[mr_a500]

POLICE state is NOT a freaking social issue... and it will NEVER become one in developed nations..

According to an ex- top NSA official, the USA is already a police state:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/former-top-nsa-official-we-are-now-in-a-police-state/5362080

[piglickjf]

paramedic testified they were told to treat an officer with a minor injury first. nobody told them about thomas. paramedic turned around and saw him. i quoted the article in my prior reply.

Yes, you quoted a quote, from an unattributed article, where the reporter indicates what the paramedics testified. That's way too much hearsay and incomplete information to form any kind of opinion off of. We don't know what context the statement was made in, or the answers to any follow up questions. Heck, we don't even have an exact quote, just what seems to be a paraphrase from whoever wrote the article.

Again, I'm not saying it didn't go down that way, but that's hardly proof. I'd have to watch the video again, and it's hard to really see/hear exactly what's going on, but from my recollection, when you first notice the paramedics, Thomas is still being wrestled. There was hardly any point at which he was just laying there unattended. As soon as the cops get him under control, the paramedics come in and start working on him.

[bcg]

It's called being above the law. It's called corruption. It's called being an officer.

officer = overseer

in about 4 seconds a teacher is about to speak...

[Novus]

Abuse of power is not absolutely synonymous with a police state.
Just because recent revelations have brought these terrible events to your attention again doesn't mean that we've suddenly turned into a police state overnight.
This kind of back door political fingering has been going on since goodness knows when.
You didn't wake up today and realize Nixon was one of the worst and most corrupt President we've ever been through and people like J. Edgar Hoover abused the FBI like no other.
It's not like you didn't know about all the dirty work that the CIA actually did for the past 60+ years.
It's not like you never heard about project ECHELON.
It's not like you didn't realize this sort of **** would naturally happen after 9/11 and the patriot act.
It's not like major scandals like Iran-Contra didn't happen.
It's not like we didn't know DHS would be an ineffective wasteful department. It's not like we didn't know Chertnoff didn't lobby for those controversial body scanners which were deployed far too early with little to no testing in most major airports.
There's so much underhanded political **** to list. Get a grip, it's not like you woke up one day and just realized abuses of power happen in a democracy such as ours.
That's corruption on a federal level though.

On a state and local level, we've also seen a ton of ****.
Do you remember the Bell scandal?
Local police in all major metropolitan cities all seem to have issues with abuse and corruption.
Did you forget about Rodney King and the various other cases we've seen like that. There are so many similar cases. (NY, SF, Boston all have similar cases that made national headlines)
We've always known that some police officers are ****s and some are great people.
It's always been like this. This isn't something that just happened overnight.

We do need to do a better job at combating corruption.
Take some of the good things in stride and moderate this "we're a police state gestapo everywhere" mentality.
Unless you've actually seen the video of the beating yourself, don't be so quick to jump to conclusions.
Negative police attitudes by the public tend to contaminate legitimate, lawful actions (I'm not saying their actions were necessarily lawful, however).
I just don't think this case is as simple as we are making it out to be.

That being said though ... That's orange county for you.

[bcg]

Abuse of power is not absolutely synonymous with a police state.
...

Ok... well to me this looks like a police state:



But let's not talk about that... after all its always been like this so its cool 

[Novus]

Abuse of power is not absolutely synonymous with a police state.
...

Ok... well to me this looks like a police state:

Show Image

But let's not talk about that... after all its always been like this so its cool  :thumb:

Well that's a picture of law enforcement deployed after the Boston Bombing, what do you expect?
You can't point at this picture and say look it's a police state because this sort of response is somewhat warranted and arguably appropriate immediately after terrorist attacks.

I think you've illustrated my point.
You're so accustomed to crying police state at every police action you see that you don't differentiate between situations that require stronger police action and situations that clearly don't.

[tp4tissue]

Abuse of power is not absolutely synonymous with a police state.
...

Ok... well to me this looks like a police state:

Show Image

But let's not talk about that... after all its always been like this so its cool  :thumb:

Well that's a picture of law enforcement deployed after the Boston Bombing, what do you expect?
You can't point at this picture and say look it's a police state because this sort of response is somewhat warranted and arguably appropriate immediately after terrorist attacks.

wh00000sh......