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geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: Malphas on Tue, 27 May 2014, 14:45:42

Title: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Tue, 27 May 2014, 14:45:42

I guess it's not really funny in light of what happened, but I couldn't stop myself from laughing while watching this. What a demented aspie freak, aha. This is exactly how I imagine tp4tissue irl.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: paicrai on Tue, 27 May 2014, 14:49:58
It's not funny that he killed people, but damn this guy's stupidity makes me chuckle.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Tue, 27 May 2014, 14:52:49
Yes, the murdering people part = not funny. Making a laughing stock of himself = hilarious.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: paicrai on Tue, 27 May 2014, 14:55:39
oh man his ****ing cliché laugh in-between his "i'm gonna kill you for not gettin ****" rants makes me cringe more than his psycho sexism ****...
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Puddsy on Tue, 27 May 2014, 15:11:26
If you think so highly of one thing happening, much like Mr. Rodger here, go talk to someone. Few things help more than talking to someone. NOT ONLINE but in person.

That's all.

kthx.

I was going to add a bit about my own experience as a patient of mental illness, but I'm gonna leave it out.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 27 May 2014, 16:17:36
I read his entire 140page journal...   it seemed like if someone objective just talked to him..  it wouldn't have come to such a tragedy...

he clearly did not understand the fact that Everything has a cost...  this includes Love, sex, attention, -from female or otherwise...

Though he does not mention it directly... he seems to have overwhelming social anxiety...  This likely came along due to his parent's divorce at a young age.


His mother was his primary care giver, and she spoiled him greatly,  and was personally responsible for fixing all of his play-dates, social interactions, invitations..

-- so you can fathom that perhaps he missed out on learning to do this well on his own


There was also the case of the evil-step-mother,  who his father began living with only weeks after divorcing his mother..

So there's that Semi-betrayal... 


Then a very large incident occur-ed for him when he went to his fathers house for a drink of water without knocking..

His evil-step-mother knocked the drink out of his hands, and ordered him to leave...  His FATHER sided with the step mother..


The father was in financial trouble at the time, so I'm assuming the step-mother (rich family)  was paying for the household,   which is likely why the father became such a lil-*****...


So you see...   This is actually a classic case of neuroses that typically develop from broken homes..


 

-- other traumatic events..

he caught his sister getting (ffff) in her room by a latino guy.. he was furious outside the room...

mmm....

all of his friends were socially normal, and able to initiate conversation with no stress..

Elliot, can initiate, but it causes him an abnormal amount of stress.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 27 May 2014, 17:13:34
I never had much success with ladies in my life.  The last few years have better for me in finding affection and companionship. Some other Geekhackers might be similar because we do care more about these computer input devices than meeting women.  But I understand many of the feelings that this guy is speaking of, and had some of the same thoughts about my lack of success in dating and mating.  However, my thoughts never progressed to becoming violent towards others.  Before you think I am some sort of psychopath, I want to be clear that my frustration never manifested into thoughts about mass killing of random people and any sort of violence towards others.

Obviously, he was lacking love and affection in his life, and perhaps he had some sort of mental illness, that if treated properly, would not have manifested into a mass killing.  He obviously did not understand the rules of attraction, and why girls would choose other guys over him.  Those rules have been written in stone for centuries, although the recent trend of geeks getting rich in Silicon Valley is shaking up the traditional hierarchy of the mating game.

Not to be funny or insensitive, but this guy forgot one simple rule of life that always kept me from hating individuals that may have broken my heart or screwed the object of my affection: 

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Whenever you look at the detailed profile of these mass killers, a lot of these guys just seem tragically lonely and in need of some attention and affection and social contact in their lives. Now their loneliness might be a result of their mental illness, which caused them to be isolated in the first place.  Who knows.  A little compassion can save a life.  Maybe all they needed was somebody to listen to them about their frustrations and feelings.  Sometimes, all we need to know is that somebody is listening and they care.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Tue, 27 May 2014, 17:16:24
Eh? Why should anyone care about some kid that gets upset he can't get laid? He's just a weirdo; I dunno how you can relate to him at all.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: paicrai on Tue, 27 May 2014, 17:20:33
hormones are crazy
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 27 May 2014, 17:24:04
Eh? Why should anyone care about some kid that gets upset he can't get laid? He's just a weirdo; I dunno how you can relate to him at all.

You can't relate to someone experienceing a lack of social and romantic success?  If you're a caring human being you should care when someone in your life is hurting.  I think that is prdlm2009's point.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Tue, 27 May 2014, 17:32:33
No, I can't, because I'm normal. If his reaction to not getting laid, or not getting a girlfriend is to go out and murder a bunch of women, then it's neither surprising nor a pity that he didn't have much success with women.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 27 May 2014, 17:42:13
No, I can't, because I'm normal. If his reaction to not getting laid, or not getting a girlfriend is to go out and murder a bunch of women, then it's neither surprising nor a pity that he didn't have much success with women.

Everything happens for a reason..  His perception was severely skewed by traumatic childhood events.. and even adolescent events..

like i mentioned

Divorce

Overprotective mother, spoiling him, arranging his social interactions for him

Stepmother, emotionally abuse him

Father, financial crysis, whipped by stepmother who was paying for household expenses

Father always siding with step-mother,  (seen as betrayal) with respect to Elliot

Sister gets a boyfriend, He came home to them having sex in her bedroom..


These were the big ones..

But his 140 page memoir is a very detailed account.. and after I read it.. It seemed obvious to me why he did what he did...
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: rockhawksam on Tue, 27 May 2014, 17:45:38
No, I can't, because I'm normal. If his reaction to not getting laid, or not getting a girlfriend is to go out and murder a bunch of women, then it's neither surprising nor a pity that he didn't have much success with women.
Wow your insensitivity is astonishing. Everything from you calling him an "aspie freak" and this comment above are really just sickening to read. You can't empathize with him because you are "normal"? That is borderline psychopathic to me.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 27 May 2014, 17:46:01
No, I can't, because I'm normal. If his reaction to not getting laid, or not getting a girlfriend is to go out and murder a bunch of women, then it's neither surprising nor a pity that he didn't have much success with women.

This is a surprisingly unthoughtful stance from you.  I can't sympathize with the rage and twisted logic, but I can sympathize with the frustration and rejection from others.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 27 May 2014, 17:47:09
No, I can't, because I'm normal. If his reaction to not getting laid, or not getting a girlfriend is to go out and murder a bunch of women, then it's neither surprising nor a pity that he didn't have much success with women.
Wow your insensitivity is astonishing. Everything from you calling him an "aspie freak" and this comment above are really just sickening to read. You can't empathize with him because you are "normal"? That is borderline psychopathic to me.

100% agree..

Malphas is the exact type of person that Elliot describes in his memoir that drove him towards violence..

Insensitive, Crass, and ignorant..
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: paicrai on Tue, 27 May 2014, 17:48:21
malphas step away from the cocaine
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 27 May 2014, 17:48:32
No, I can't, because I'm normal. If his reaction to not getting laid, or not getting a girlfriend is to go out and murder a bunch of women, then it's neither surprising nor a pity that he didn't have much success with women.

This is a surprisingly unthoughtful stance from you.  I can't sympathize with the rage and twisted logic, but I can sympathize with the frustration and rejection from others.

I may have been skewed after reading his whole memoir,  (it was surprisingly very well written and cohesive),     but overall... the progression and his choices seem completely NATURAL  given his   mis-attributive beliefs, which were formed throughout his life...
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 27 May 2014, 17:49:38
malphas step away from the cocaine

Nah.. he's not on drugs.. he's just a ****...
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: paicrai on Tue, 27 May 2014, 17:52:37
he once said he did massive amounts of cocaine
please please be that and not malphas getting fartier
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 27 May 2014, 18:02:00
he once said he did massive amounts of cocaine
please please be that and not malphas getting fartier

I've yet to try cocaine myself...  I'm afraid to... I liked cigarettes and alcohol way too much...

It's unlikely I could become the casual Cocaine user.. (http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/confused-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862495)
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 27 May 2014, 18:08:32
'I will slaughter every single soiled, stuck-up, blonde slut I see inside there'

Killed 3 asian males, 1 white male and 2 brunettes. Nice job.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Tue, 27 May 2014, 18:09:17
Man, you guys are weird if you see this and your reaction is to feel sympathy or whatever for the murderer rather than disgust.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Pacifist on Tue, 27 May 2014, 18:10:21
'I will slaughter every single soiled, stuck-up, blonde slut I see inside there'

Killed 4 asian males and 2 brunettes. Nice job.

wasn't it 3 asians and 1 white dude?
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: noisyturtle on Tue, 27 May 2014, 18:11:06
No, I can't, because I'm normal. If his reaction to not getting laid, or not getting a girlfriend is to go out and murder a bunch of women, then it's neither surprising nor a pity that he didn't have much success with women.

This is a surprisingly unthoughtful stance from you.  I can't sympathize with the rage and twisted logic, but I can sympathize with the frustration and rejection from others.

One less dip**** pissing the gene pool. How's that for an outlook?
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: ComradeSniper on Tue, 27 May 2014, 18:11:23
Man, you guys are weird if you see this and your reaction is to feel sympathy or whatever for the murderer rather than disgust.

This mindset is a large part of the reason why things like this occur.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 27 May 2014, 18:17:09
No, I can't, because I'm normal. If his reaction to not getting laid, or not getting a girlfriend is to go out and murder a bunch of women, then it's neither surprising nor a pity that he didn't have much success with women.

Not sure how old you are, but you may discover that this idea of "normal" is a misconception more than anything, because even the most social humans are still a little screwed up in the own little ways.  That is not a bad thing, it is just what makes each of an us an individual.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Tue, 27 May 2014, 18:24:25
Not really, no. Most people fit into a general definition of "normal" which includes not feeling compelled to go out and murder people and kill yourself because you can't get laid.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: noisyturtle on Tue, 27 May 2014, 18:31:49
Most people think they are weirder than they are. By the definition that normal is the average, yes most people are normal.

I know someone who turned 30 this year, and is still a virgin. That kid in the video is (was :)) ) an idiot. If he thought for one second most of humanity hasn't delt with the same situation he was in, he may be even more of an idiot that I'd previously projected.

I agree with Malphas, (but in my own words:) I cannot believe this stain on human existence and cancer of a personality has garnered any form of sympathy.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 27 May 2014, 18:52:05
I can feel sympathy for his pain and simultaneously feel disgust and anger at his actions.

It's not that hard for, you know, a normal person.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: rockhawksam on Tue, 27 May 2014, 19:03:08
Most people think they are weirder than they are. By the definition that normal is the average, yes most people are normal.

I know someone who turned 30 this year, and is still a virgin. That kid in the video is (was :)) ) an idiot. If he thought for one second most of humanity hasn't delt with the same situation he was in, he may be even more of an idiot that I'd previously projected.

I agree with Malphas, (but in my own words:) I cannot believe this stain on human existence and cancer of a personality has garnered any form of sympathy.
Jesus christ, why does nobody in this thread understand that this kid was DISEASED?! Would you say someone who has diabetes or any other hereditary disease (yes, mental illness is hereditary) is "pissing on the gene pool"? This kid was very very obviously mentally ill, and his actions are not being justified by any of us. However, that is not to say they were not preventable if people like you and Malphas did not have this mindset regarding mentally ****ing ill people. This is the kind of mindset, pooled together with his own issues, that causes this kid to feel this way in the first place. Saying you are "normal" is bull**** and we all know it. Not to mention, this kid obviously does not feel normal and to spew that false standard anywhere and everywhere is extremely unfair and unkind.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Tue, 27 May 2014, 19:22:30
Let's just agree that aspies should be euthenised.

Mod Edit: User was warned for this post
.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: rockhawksam on Tue, 27 May 2014, 19:25:29
Let's just agree that aspies should be euthenised.
How are you not banned already for saying **** like this?
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: noisyturtle on Tue, 27 May 2014, 19:32:04
Most people think they are weirder than they are. By the definition that normal is the average, yes most people are normal.

I know someone who turned 30 this year, and is still a virgin. That kid in the video is (was :)) ) an idiot. If he thought for one second most of humanity hasn't delt with the same situation he was in, he may be even more of an idiot that I'd previously projected.

I agree with Malphas, (but in my own words:) I cannot believe this stain on human existence and cancer of a personality has garnered any form of sympathy.
Jesus christ, why does nobody in this thread understand that this kid was DISEASED?! Would you say someone who has diabetes or any other hereditary disease (yes, mental illness is hereditary) is "pissing on the gene pool"? This kid was very very obviously mentally ill, and his actions are not being justified by any of us. However, that is not to say they were not preventable if people like you and Malphas did not have this mindset regarding mentally ****ing ill people. This is the kind of mindset, pooled together with his own issues, that causes this kid to feel this way in the first place. Saying you are "normal" is bull**** and we all know it. Not to mention, this kid obviously does not feel normal and to spew that false standard anywhere and everywhere is extremely unfair and unkind.

Yes this guy was ill, but he didn't seek help nor seem to want to change. Sometimes there is no cure, it's the 'ol Hitler/time-travel paradox. You cannot help those who do not want help, and he chose his path and defined himself pretty clearly.

Should all mentally ill people be put down? Certainly not, but he seems more misguided than mentally ill to be frank. He clearly had no outlet to deal with his emotions and his inexperience with social norms dictated his response which in my opinion wasn't motivated by a mental illness, but rather a lack of understanding regarding empathy and response. I would call his video sociopathic, but he clearly feels something even through the character he was portraying in the video, he just didn't understand interpret and respond in an advisable manner. Now that I'm typing this, yes, in retrospect the incident could've been prevented if he had someone to talk it out, but that's not the path he choose even remotely, so I find it difficult to sympathize.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Coreda on Tue, 27 May 2014, 19:51:36
I may have been skewed after reading his whole memoir,  (it was surprisingly very well written and cohesive),     but overall... the progression and his choices seem completely NATURAL  given his   mis-attributive beliefs, which were formed throughout his life...

He had aspergers and developed a totally twisted view of women, and men by association. I'm sure there are those out there with problems socially and who have felt isolated before, and naturally some can empathize them, but I hardly think it's a natural progression to then go on a murder spree. He really needed some better help.

This is a surprisingly unthoughtful stance from you.  I can't sympathize with the rage and twisted logic, but I can sympathize with the frustration and rejection from others.

The rejection part is interesting from reading various parts of his accounts, as he kept referring to being 'rejected' by girls yet in the accounts the rejection was imagined. A girl didn't react to something the way he wanted - rejection. He didn't approach/talk a girl - 'they despise me', etc. It's remarkable how many of these scenarios he envisioned as being intentional personal attacks of some kind.

The memes and parodies are the best things to come of all this insanity though. 4chan had the best by far, including the voiced readings.

Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 27 May 2014, 20:41:16
Let's just agree that aspies should be euthenised.
How are you not banned already for saying **** like this?

Malphas is a **** person...   In so many ways he's exactly like aspies and Elliot Rodgers., he's misguided, harbors misconceptions.. and ultimately deserves our understanding..

He is the way the world made him...
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 27 May 2014, 20:43:03
I may have been skewed after reading his whole memoir,  (it was surprisingly very well written and cohesive),     but overall... the progression and his choices seem completely NATURAL  given his   mis-attributive beliefs, which were formed throughout his life...

He had aspergers and developed a totally twisted view of women, and men by association. I'm sure there are those out there with problems socially and who have felt isolated before, and naturally some can empathize them, but I hardly think it's a natural progression to then go on a murder spree. He really needed some better help.

This is a surprisingly unthoughtful stance from you.  I can't sympathize with the rage and twisted logic, but I can sympathize with the frustration and rejection from others.

The rejection part is interesting from reading various parts of his accounts, as he kept referring to being 'rejected' by girls yet in the accounts the rejection was imagined. A girl didn't react to something the way he wanted - rejection. He didn't approach/talk a girl - 'they despise me', etc. It's remarkable how many of these scenarios he envisioned as being intentional personal attacks of some kind.

The memes and parodies are the best things to come of all this insanity though. 4chan had the best by far, including the voiced readings.



I'm not convinced he had aspergers.. 

He had extreme social anxiety... which could be many things..  I'd say primarily due to his less than ideal upbringing.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: iri on Wed, 28 May 2014, 04:38:17
Saying you are "normal" is bull****
why?

Let's just agree that aspies should be euthenised.
there is no clear scientific evidence of that the asperger's syndrome is transmitted genetically. also there is no legit correlation between the disease and violent or criminal behavior.

also grammar nazi alert.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 28 May 2014, 04:44:44
Let's just agree that aspies should be euthenised.
**** you.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: paicrai on Wed, 28 May 2014, 05:06:03
Let's just agree that aspies should be euthenised.
le **** you
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: vivalarevolución on Wed, 28 May 2014, 07:04:00
I can feel sympathy for his pain and simultaneously feel disgust and anger at his actions.

It's not that hard for, you know, a normal person.

Yea.  Exactly.  His reaction to a typical occurrence for any male that gets continually rejected by girl after girl, for whatever reason?  Over the top, repulsive, disgusting, awful for those hurt and killed.  No lonely boy should react in that manner because people do not deserve to die for your loneliness.

Do I feel sympathy?  No.  There are healthier ways to react to a tough family life and rejection from girls.  Do I understand some of his feelings?  Yes.

It is possible to have nuanced feelings about a situation.  When I read about these mass killers that just go slaughter a dozen people, I think:  what happened in this guy's life that compelled him to do what he did?  What was lacking?  Because that is how you learn more about these types of people and get them the help that they need to be a member of society without being a threat.

You know what a lot people, including the killer, really lack these days?  A little empathy and compassion for people that might be going through some tough times.  The killer lacked these things because he did not understand the effect that his actions would have on the family and friends of the people he killed.  He did not understand that millions of young men like him had gone through the same thing, and maybe they could empathize.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 28 May 2014, 08:30:53
What is it about American culture that helps create these people? I'm aware he wasn't American but how many school shootings have there been in the last 5-6 years now in America?

Compare that to somewhere like Canada which has similar gun laws and a higher rate of gun ownership... Pretty worrying environment.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: swill on Wed, 28 May 2014, 08:40:00
What is it about American culture that helps create these people? I'm aware he wasn't American but how many school shootings have there been in the last 5-6 years now in America?

Compare that to somewhere like Canada which has similar gun laws and a higher rate of gun ownership... Pretty worrying environment.

Very different gun laws in canada. No hand guns (unless you are a cop or a trapper). No automatic weapons.

Yes we have more guns per population, but we do not have the same perspective on guns.

America = guns are for killing people
Canada = guns are for hunting animals
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 28 May 2014, 08:48:50
It seems like an increasingly worrying country. They have more travel restrictions than most developed nations, pretty relaxed gun laws and almost annual school shootings.

Every time one happens the 'gun debate' goes on, nothing changes, people find something else to blame, TV, Movies, Video Games, drugs etc etc.. And then the following year or so it happens again.

If I was American I would be worried about it and trying to find out the actual root cause and how to solve it. I don't think you can blame gun laws as if someone is intent on killing someone else or many people, they will find a way.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Krogenar on Wed, 28 May 2014, 08:53:26
Man, you guys are weird if you see this and your reaction is to feel sympathy or whatever for the murderer rather than disgust.

After following the story for a bit, I get the sense that this kid was mentally unstable already, and the trials and tribulations of modern life were just too much for him to handle. I feel like there are borderline cases of mental instability -- it sort of reminds me of Adam Lanza, the Newtown shooter. Maybe this kid had Aspberger's Syndrome as well -- these are children with some mental or developmental problems, but display high intellectual function. They're socially awkward, but otherwise very smart.

To me, it feels tragic that someone is smart enough to know that they're not completely "right" -- but it's a rare person who can resist projecting those problems onto the rest of the world -- that's far easier than realizing the problem comes from you. Hence, all this 'the world is broken' rhetoric. If I were crazy, I would pray that I was so crazy I didn't realize I was crazy.  :-[

Before I had a child of my own I never bought into the culture war stuff (violent video games create violent children, Madonna is nude again?!) but now... now I sort of see why it's important. Our culture is a shared resource, and all of our children have to swim in that shared resource, so we should be careful about what we dump into that soup. Today's youth culture is highly, highly sexualized, and massively superficial. To me, that's like dumping sharks and turds into the culture "soup" -- my daughter is going to have to swim in that someday, so... please stop putting those things in the soup?

I think this kid's pre-existing mental problems plus our culture led to the violence. Everything this kid ever saw on television pounded home one message over and over -- virgins are lame, sex is everything.

Maybe his mania would have found some other violent focus -- who can say? But even so, there should be empathy for everyone in this sort of case. We should also reconsider our cultural choices. I keep hoping technology will one day allow all of us to construct a media experience that represents our own designed cultures. My daughter will grow up Amish.  :thumb:

EDIT: I don't think Aspberger's equals Violent-Prone. But I do feel like since they're on the higher scale of the autism spectrum, they're aware enough (smart enough?) to know that there's this whole social level of interaction that nature just did not prepare them for. That must hurt in ways I can barely imagine. It must be like... the whole world can perform magic, and you can't. And I don't think you should fault someone for something beyond their control. If you have a tumor pressing against the part of your brain that controls aggression and impulse control, you're not really in control of your faculties. And that's tragic and worthy of empathy.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: madhias on Wed, 28 May 2014, 09:03:20
Someone saw the film 'We Need To Talk About Kevin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Need_to_Talk_About_Kevin_(film))' with Tilda Swinton? Don't know why, but first i thought of this film when i heard about this story.

Let's just agree that aspies should be euthenised.

 :eek:
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: iri on Wed, 28 May 2014, 10:39:58
UPD: confused the murderers.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 28 May 2014, 10:45:05
If I was American I would be worried about it and trying to find out the actual root cause and how to solve it. I don't think you can blame gun laws as if someone is intent on killing someone else or many people, they will find a way.
which is precisely the case of this topic.

Strange, I thought the point of the topic was for malph to openly laugh at a disabled person who would then go on to murder a bunch of people...
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Wed, 28 May 2014, 10:49:14
Let's just agree that aspies should be euthenised.
How are you not banned already for saying **** like this?

Let's just agree that aspies should be euthenised.
How are you not banned already for saying **** like this?

Malphas is a **** person...   In so many ways he's exactly like aspies and Elliot Rodgers., he's misguided, harbors misconceptions.. and ultimately deserves our understanding..

He is the way the world made him...

Let's just agree that aspies should be euthenised.
**** you.

Let's just agree that aspies should be euthenised.
le **** you

(http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130221235213/adventuretimesuperfans/images/thumb/e/ed/Render_-_Laugh_Face_Pfftch_Troll_Face_BaixeRenders.png/320px-Render_-_Laugh_Face_Pfftch_Troll_Face_BaixeRenders.png)
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: paicrai on Wed, 28 May 2014, 10:52:10
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: iri on Wed, 28 May 2014, 12:37:23
UPD confused the murderers
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Wed, 28 May 2014, 12:39:16
If I was American I would be worried about it and trying to find out the actual root cause and how to solve it. I don't think you can blame gun laws as if someone is intent on killing someone else or many people, they will find a way.
which is precisely the case of this topic.

Strange, I thought the point of the topic was for malph to openly laugh at a disabled person who would then go on to murder a bunch of people...

Oh please, the entire Internet is laughing at this guy, and for good reason.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: paicrai on Wed, 28 May 2014, 12:41:24
If I was American I would be worried about it and trying to find out the actual root cause and how to solve it. I don't think you can blame gun laws as if someone is intent on killing someone else or many people, they will find a way.
which is precisely the case of this topic.

Strange, I thought the point of the topic was for malph to openly laugh at a disabled person who would then go on to murder a bunch of people...

Oh please, the entire Internet is laughing at this guy, and for good reason.
because he's an entitled ****, not because of the spergs
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Wed, 28 May 2014, 12:42:17
More like 50/50.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 28 May 2014, 12:43:02
If I was American I would be worried about it and trying to find out the actual root cause and how to solve it. I don't think you can blame gun laws as if someone is intent on killing someone else or many people, they will find a way.
which is precisely the case of this topic.

Strange, I thought the point of the topic was for malph to openly laugh at a disabled person who would then go on to murder a bunch of people...

Oh please, the entire Internet is laughing at this guy, and for good reason.

Oh please, I was right?
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: paicrai on Wed, 28 May 2014, 12:44:47
at least we know 4chan isn't laughing (for ****ing once) because they're megasensitive sperglords
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Wed, 28 May 2014, 12:45:21
If I was American I would be worried about it and trying to find out the actual root cause and how to solve it. I don't think you can blame gun laws as if someone is intent on killing someone else or many people, they will find a way.
which is precisely the case of this topic.

Strange, I thought the point of the topic was for malph to openly laugh at a disabled person who would then go on to murder a bunch of people...

Oh please, the entire Internet is laughing at this guy, and for good reason.

Oh please, I was right?



Considering I literally said exactly that in the OP, yes. Don't like it? Out of my thread!
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 28 May 2014, 12:47:24
If I was American I would be worried about it and trying to find out the actual root cause and how to solve it. I don't think you can blame gun laws as if someone is intent on killing someone else or many people, they will find a way.
which is precisely the case of this topic.

Strange, I thought the point of the topic was for malph to openly laugh at a disabled person who would then go on to murder a bunch of people...

Oh please, the entire Internet is laughing at this guy, and for good reason.

Oh please, I was right?



Considering I literally said exactly that in the OP, yes. Don't like it? Out of my thread!

Are you high?
Someone (I thought) questioned me on the topic of the thread and I corrected them, you then quoted me basically saying I was right in my post and added nothing else... and now you want me out of your thread? wtf son
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Wed, 28 May 2014, 12:47:34
at least we know 4chan isn't laughing (for ****ing once) because they're megasensitive sperglords

Yes, they probably all identify with him too much, due to being hopeless losers. As did some people here, which I honestly didn't expect from this place.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 28 May 2014, 12:57:38
Mental illness education needs to be a world standard. This whole thread physically hurts to read.

This is what an EXTREME case of Asperger's looks like. All mental illnesses have a spectrum (Autism spectrum, anyone?), and ER's case was on the farthest end of extreme. People with Asperger's can certainly be "successful" in our western sense of the word (one of the smartest people I know has it), but as you go further down the spectrum they get less and less sociable, angrier, and other nasty things. ER was one of the worst cases I've seen of ASP (my shorthand name for Asperger's).

Now, paicrai's argument of "he's an entitled ****" (by the way, I wish you'd be a little more polite, that goes for everyone) is not directly a part of ASP (though it can be, in rare cases). His entitlement was probably from delusions of grandeur, one of the most crippling things someone can have. You feel like you should have everything, and nothing satisfies your wants/needs. This is similar to the feeling one gets when high on cocaine. When ASP and DoG (what an ironically pleasant name for something so awful) combine, it generally ends poorly.

I'm not an expert and I could be wrong on some things, but this is how I see it.

Can we be done with this thread now? This is probably exactly the reaction that ER wanted.

P.S. You guys are being really mean for no reason. Have some respect for those of us with mental illness. They're real problems that ignored thanks to people like you.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Wed, 28 May 2014, 13:15:26
Yeah, but regardless of what mental illnesses he had, he would have been aware that killing people is wrong. He lost all entitlement to sympathy or not being made fun of when he went out shooting people. I'm sure lots of mass murderers, serial killers/rapists, genocidal dictators, etc. had mental illnesses, but they're still deplorable.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Krogenar on Wed, 28 May 2014, 13:49:00
Yeah, but regardless of what mental illnesses he had, he would have been aware that killing people is wrong. He lost all entitlement to sympathy or not being made fun of when he went out shooting people. I'm sure lots of mass murderers, serial killers/rapists, genocidal dictators, etc. had mental illnesses, but they're still deplorable.

Sometimes, Malphas, we agree -- but on this I think you're being unfair. Mental illness is very real, and there are cases in which they are not truly responsible for their actions. The actions themselves are still deplorable and horrible -- but sometimes mental illness makes it impossible for some people to make the proper decision. Not theoretically impossible -- impossible, period.

A good example: Charles Whitman, the Ken State sniper. This is a guy who suddenly developed an overwhelming sense of hostility and fear -- and to his horror, realized it was happened. From his wiki entry:

Quote
Investigation related to visits to medical personnel
Prescription vials at Whitman's home.

Investigating officers found that Whitman had visited several University doctors in the year prior to the shootings, who had prescribed him various medications. Whitman had seen a minimum of five doctors between the fall and winter of 1965, before he had visited a psychiatrist (he received no prescription from the latter). He was prescribed Valium by Dr. Jan Cochrum, who recommended he visit the campus psychiatrist.[32]

Whitman met with Maurice Dean Heatly, the staff psychiatrist at the University of Texas Health Center, on March 29, 1966.[91] Whitman referred to his visit with Heatly in his final suicide note. He said, "I talked with a Doctor once for about two hours and tried to convey to him my fears that I felt come [sic] overwhelming violent impulses. After one visit, I never saw the Doctor again, and since then have been fighting my mental turmoil alone, and seemingly to no avail."[38]

During Whitman's command of the tower, the university learned that the shooter might have been a student. Once his identity was released, officials conducted a search of Whitman's records and found that Whitman had visited the University Health Center on several occasions. The University did not release the medical records and academic history of Whitman at the University of Texas, citing legal and ethical issues.[92] The only medical record released was that of Dr. Heatly, who did so once it became known to the press that Whitman had visited him prior to the shootings.

Dr. Heatly's notes on the visit reflected Whitman's own comments about feeling hostility:

    This massive, muscular youth seemed to be oozing with hostility [...] that something seemed to be happening to him and that he didn't seem to be himself.

Dr. Heatly also referred to a statement by Whitman:

    He readily admits having overwhelming periods of hostility with a very minimum of provocation. Repeated inquiries attempting to analyze his exact experiences were not too successful with the exception of his vivid reference to 'thinking about going up on the tower with a deer rifle and start shooting people'.[93]

After attending just one session with Dr. Heatly, Whitman never visited him again.

He knew something was wrong -- Whitman, in his suicide note, request an autopsy to find out what was wrong with him. So... it's okay to feel sympathy for someone like Whitman, or Elliot Rodger -- in fact, maybe a more sympathetic world could have made a difference and prevented the rampage?
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 28 May 2014, 14:11:01
Yeah, but regardless of what mental illnesses he had, he would have been aware that killing people is wrong. He lost all entitlement to sympathy or not being made fun of when he went out shooting people. I'm sure lots of mass murderers, serial killers/rapists, genocidal dictators, etc. had mental illnesses, but they're still deplorable.

I can feel sympathy for his pain and simultaneously feel disgust and anger at his actions.

It's not that hard for, you know, a normal person.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Wed, 28 May 2014, 14:15:15
You can certainly feel sympathetic for him if you want, I just think it's a bit absurd to expect everyone else to as well, or not to find humour in the pathetic behavior displayed in his videos.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Wed, 28 May 2014, 14:21:22
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 28 May 2014, 14:21:41
The sympathy I feel is more for the future Eliot Rodgers who are suffering now and may eventually boil over as he did.  They need help, and it's apparent that our culture is not good at providing it.

And yeah, the video taken by itself is pretty funny.  But just as you lose the capacity for sympathy based on later events, I don't find it funny given that he actually did what he threatened to do.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: ferociousfingerings on Wed, 28 May 2014, 14:38:51
There are potentially millions more "elliot rodgers" out there.

This is not an isolated instance of the plethora of negative and unfavorable conditions, to which he was involuntarily and inevitably, and most importantly, ceaselessly, exposed.

You push ANYONE hard enough, far enough, for long enough, they WILL snap, regardless of your opinion of their reasoning/motivation.

You convince someone that all they'll ever be allowed to experience is various versions of unending torment... they'll say "F*** it!" and behave destructively... because why would anyone try not to damage a world (or its inhabitants) that has ALWAYS damaged them? (this is partly a perception and subjective, individual experience issue...)

I've been to that same edge myself a few times. I've even been close enough that, had i possessed the means to make a big enough "dent," i'd have used them. Luckily, i've always struggled with the long term impacts of an insufficient earning potential, due to the decisions made by others, for themselves, which lacked the consideration of how those decisions (by others) would negatively impact my environment.

We are all products of our environments; the only way you can shift the ratio enough to have "control," (i.e., to choose one's own life parameters), is to be able to amass enough resources to be able to control other people's actions/decisions, or alternatively, remove them and their impacts entirely from your chosen environment.

"Do or get done." If you can't control what's happening around you (including other people), then you will be exposed to whatever your environment ends up putting on you. Sometimes there is no way to gain control, and no way to escape.

Instead of fixing that problem, people want to cry "monster!" ...even though, yes, our society "created" such a monster... and he's absolutely not the only one. There are many out there, right now, just waiting for the last straw to land on the camel's back.

I feel sorry for the dude, and his victims. I don't think he "deserved" the life that pushed him toward his actions, and i don't think his victims "deserved" to pay for what he couldn't handle.

The whole thing just sucks... but that's pretty typical for Earth and Humans, from what i've seen.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 28 May 2014, 14:44:53
What has been the fallout of this event and video's coming out been?
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 28 May 2014, 14:52:10
... I just think it's a bit absurd to expect everyone else to as well...

I guess the main thing is that the stance you are taking in this thread surprises me.  You are usually generous and nuanced in your positions on social and political issues.  This feels very absolute, knee-jerk, and emotional.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 28 May 2014, 15:38:28
I think the main problem with people like Rodger, as ferociousfingerings pointed out above, is the sense of entitlement which is somehow engrained upon their psyche from a young age. No one other than yourself controls your destiny. If you want to be successful and acquire material wealth, you must work toward that goal and pursue it relentlessly. No one is going to just hand you the keys to success. If you are a man who wants to have "success" with women, you must be willing to put in the effort to meet and date the women you find attractive. They aren't just going to throw themselves at you.

Our young generation has grown up thinking they are special, that they are all winners because each one receives an award in a competition, rather than being forced to face reality. Every action you take has a consequence. Accept responsibility for your own actions, and expect the same of others.

I blame the so-called parents of these young people for their downfall, rather than their environment or society. Parents today want their children to be raised by the educational system, rather than taking on the responsibility themselves. Being a parent is hard work, and it means that you aren't always going to be your child's best friend. That's what many fail to grasp, because they want so badly to be loved by their children. So rather than teaching their children the hard lessons of life, and how to grow up and be responsible adults, they choose not to teach their children how to deal with the challenges life will most certainly bring. They expect that somehow the educational system should be teaching their children everything they need to know in life. Well, let me clue you in to the truth...the educational system cannot and should not be expected to do that. We should send our children to school to learn reading, writing, and arithmetic, along with some basic social skills from their interactions with other children. And we as parents should teach our children how to be responsible adults. Until that happens, our society will continue to decline, and tragedies like this will continue unabated.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Lanx on Wed, 28 May 2014, 17:16:46
he was a emo kid that couldn't get laid. he was a young white male privileged enough to travel the world, have a bmw car, have nice toys like video cameras to record his rants and menifesto on youtube... he was basically showered with money and not love.

by all accounts, he's not ugly, he seems like he's in good health, he ain't got no gut, he seems well groomed, and while some of us guys will think that he has a closet gay look, that twilight sparkly look is "in" with girls his age.

so what was his problem?

he's just crazy.

that's it, plain crazy.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 29 May 2014, 04:16:33
I think he is just plain crazy. Some people can't handle rejection, and that's fine, but to go this far when you have only experience a maximum of what, six years of rejection? If he was middle aged, then maybe I would have sympathy. But you should just get on with your life. Relationships aren't everything, and so what if you get rejected. There is someone out there for everyone, if you give it enough time.

As for how funny it is, I thought the only funny part was when someone from 4chan convinced the Daily Mail that this skinny kid was hooked on creatine.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: noisyturtle on Thu, 29 May 2014, 06:21:29
You know who he reminds me of?

Patrick Bateman.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 29 May 2014, 06:40:28
You know who he reminds me of?

Patrick Bateman.

Mmm, I suppose. Just minus the lifting and the naked women.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: noisyturtle on Thu, 29 May 2014, 07:35:40
You know who he reminds me of?

Patrick Bateman.
Just minus the naked women.

Obviously :P
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: daerid on Thu, 29 May 2014, 11:28:51
WARNING: Major ranting to follow.

I cannot believe what I'm reading here. This thread physically makes me nauseous. Seriously.. what the **** is wrong with you people?

This guy KILLED 7 PEOPLE. He ****ING MURDERED THEM. And he gets sympathy. He gets empathy. He gets people saying "poor kid".

**** all that noise. He was a ****ing MONSTER.

Look, I understand he had issues. I know what it's like to be paralyzed with terror at the prospect of going up to an attractive woman and trying to talk to her. I know what it's like to not have a single girl ask you out during your entire high school career. ****'s rough. But you don't ****ing kill people, I don't care how ****ed up your upbringing is.

And now he's famous. He's all anybody can talk about. It makes me sick.

The problem with our society is we coddle these monsters way too much. So much so that when contemplating committing atrocities like this, it becomes easier to rationalize because "hey, everybody'll just think I'm mentally unstable and will try to understand me, that's not so bad".

As humans we've got the greatest evolutionary gift ever: sentience, intelligence, reason. We actually can understand the concept of cause and effect. And now all we're doing is trying so hard to negate that by forcing this idea that people aren't responsible for their own actions, if they're bad enough.

Wanna smoke some pot? **** you, you're going to jail.
Wanna shoot up a movie theatre or a school full of kids? Sure, you're going to jail. But you also get to be famous and "justified" because of external factors like your upbringing, rather than your own ****ing decisions.

****. That.

Quote
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

PS: I'm not religious at all, but I do believe in evil.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Frenir on Thu, 29 May 2014, 11:37:57
WARNING: Major ranting to follow.

I cannot believe what I'm reading here. This thread physically makes me nauseous. Seriously.. what the **** is wrong with you people?

This guy KILLED 7 PEOPLE. He ****ING MURDERED THEM. And he gets sympathy. He gets empathy. He gets people saying "poor kid".

**** all that noise. He was a ****ing MONSTER.

Look, I understand he had issues. I know what it's like to be paralyzed with terror at the prospect of going up to an attractive woman and trying to talk to her. I know what it's like to not have a single girl ask you out during your entire high school career. ****'s rough. But you don't ****ing kill people, I don't care how ****ed up your upbringing is.

And now he's famous. He's all anybody can talk about. It makes me sick.

The problem with our society is we coddle these monsters way too much. So much so that when contemplating committing atrocities like this, it becomes easier to rationalize because "hey, everybody'll just think I'm mentally unstable and will try to understand me, that's not so bad".

As humans we've got the greatest evolutionary gift ever: sentience, intelligence, reason. We actually can understand the concept of cause and effect. And now all we're doing is trying so hard to negate that by forcing this idea that people aren't responsible for their own actions, if they're bad enough.

Wanna smoke some pot? **** you, you're going to jail.
Wanna shoot up a movie theatre or a school full of kids? Sure, you're going to jail. But you also get to be famous and "justified" because of external factors like your upbringing, rather than your own ****ing decisions.

****. That.

Quote
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

PS: I'm not religious at all, but I do believe in evil.
His decisions would also be affected by his upbringing I would suppose, but overall I get what you mean and I agree.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Lanx on Thu, 29 May 2014, 12:02:34
i don't think anyone is giving this kid sympathy, if they are, they're just stoopid.

news is just twisted to suit more controversy and internet traffic.

look at this, a washington post journalist

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/elliot-rodger-isla-vista-shooting-seth-rogen-horrified-at-critics-suggestion-his-work-inspired-mass-murderers-rampage-against-women-9437969.html

by all accounts, i guess the washington post is a respected newspaper, i mean it's not a blog at least.

there probably is already a video game violence article in the works, (didn't he ask his mom to buy him halo 2?) Halo 5 just had a press release.

what confuses me is

"Rodger stabbed his three flatmates, before fatally shooting two women outside a sorority house.

He then shot a man inside the IV Deli Mart and drove around the streets in his black BMW, shooting wildly at pedestrians. He turned the gun on himself during a gun battle with deputies.

All six victims have been named by police: the three men stabbed to death were identified as George Chen, 19, Cheng Yuan Hong, 20, and Weihan Wang, 20. The three people shot were named as Katie Cooper, 22,  Veronkia Weiss, 19, and Christopher Michael-Martinez, 20."

how does one white boy live with 3 asians? what was the deal there?

and why was he sharing a flat with 3 other ppl? his family was well off, he could just have his own apt.

why did he also have to just stab his flatmates? they were all guys.

again crazy is just crazy.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: vivalarevolución on Thu, 29 May 2014, 12:06:04
at least we know 4chan isn't laughing (for ****ing once) because they're megasensitive sperglords

Yes, they probably all identify with him too much, due to being hopeless losers. As did some people here, which I honestly didn't expect from this place.


I find it unwise to call people losers, because I am not exactly sure what makes a person qualify as a loser.  It's something you call somebody when you want to feel better and more accomplished than someone.

But the most hopeless person on this thread has proven to be you.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 29 May 2014, 12:12:29
WARNING: Major ranting to follow.

I cannot believe what I'm reading here. This thread physically makes me nauseous. Seriously.. what the **** is wrong with you people?

This guy KILLED 7 PEOPLE. He ****ING MURDERED THEM. And he gets sympathy. He gets empathy. He gets people saying "poor kid".

**** all that noise. He was a ****ing MONSTER.

Look, I understand he had issues. I know what it's like to be paralyzed with terror at the prospect of going up to an attractive woman and trying to talk to her. I know what it's like to not have a single girl ask you out during your entire high school career. ****'s rough. But you don't ****ing kill people, I don't care how ****ed up your upbringing is.

And now he's famous. He's all anybody can talk about. It makes me sick.

The problem with our society is we coddle these monsters way too much. So much so that when contemplating committing atrocities like this, it becomes easier to rationalize because "hey, everybody'll just think I'm mentally unstable and will try to understand me, that's not so bad".

As humans we've got the greatest evolutionary gift ever: sentience, intelligence, reason. We actually can understand the concept of cause and effect. And now all we're doing is trying so hard to negate that by forcing this idea that people aren't responsible for their own actions, if they're bad enough.

Wanna smoke some pot? **** you, you're going to jail.
Wanna shoot up a movie theatre or a school full of kids? Sure, you're going to jail. But you also get to be famous and "justified" because of external factors like your upbringing, rather than your own ****ing decisions.

****. That.

Quote
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

PS: I'm not religious at all, but I do believe in evil.

It's not about sympathy and empathy..

I am merely attempting to convey that he is a composition of congenital psychological disorder  and  Traumatic human circumstances..

And from that we should not simply Condemn and dismiss...  Because THAT is how you let problems persist.. refusing to understand the origin..

It is NOT simply that he's a nut case..    no nut-case was so simply that...

external influences always plays a role....


It's not about saving one person..   It's about improving conditions such that we lower the odds of producing another  Elliot..


People like Malphas (not Malphas, but similarly short sighted and ignorant) was largely responsible for creating Elliot Rodgers..   

Many of the traumatizing social interactions described in Elliot's memoir points squarely at  Malphas-like personalities.. 



again,  No one here is saying that they truly identify with Elliot,   they're saying yes, we see why that happened the way it did...







Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 29 May 2014, 12:24:10
@Lanx: I'm not sure why he was living with three other guys, but he was definitely Asian himself. His mother's last name is Chin.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Krogenar on Thu, 29 May 2014, 13:02:29
I cannot believe what I'm reading here. This thread physically makes me nauseous. Seriously.. what the **** is wrong with you people?

This guy KILLED 7 PEOPLE. He ****ING MURDERED THEM. And he gets sympathy. He gets empathy. He gets people saying "poor kid".

**** all that noise. He was a ****ing MONSTER.

The problem with just labeling someone a monster and moving on is -- there's nothing else to be done. Monsters are evil, and we should hate evil. But I don't think that's going to stop the next mentally unstable person from finally cracking up. Maybe empathy for them won't stop these sorts of people, but how can it hurt? This kid felt very much an outsider -- it doesn't justify what he did, at all -- but a little empathy could help. When something like this happens, I always wonder, "what if someone, at a crucial juncture in this person's life, shown him or her some kindness?" Would it have tipped this person back towards sanity?

Quote from: daerid
Look, I understand he had issues. I know what it's like to be paralyzed with terror at the prospect of going up to an attractive woman and trying to talk to her. I know what it's like to not have a single girl ask you out during your entire high school career. ****'s rough. But you don't ****ing kill people, I don't care how ****ed up your upbringing is.

You're right -- nothing like what he described justifies murder. And I don't know for certain he had mental problems, but he sure looks like he had serious mental problems. And I can't help but feel sorry for someone like that -- the preening, the narcissism -- that's a show. This kid felt the opposite of all that -- and that makes me sad for him.

Quote from: daerid
The problem with our society is we coddle these monsters way too much. So much so that when contemplating committing atrocities like this, it becomes easier to rationalize because "hey, everybody'll just think I'm mentally unstable and will try to understand me, that's not so bad".

America has always had a hard-on for criminals, murderers, etc. -- and I agree with you completely that America has a problem with reality stars, etc. Pop went the Culture.  :mad: The only way to change that is to change the channel.

Quote from: daerid
As humans we've got the greatest evolutionary gift ever: sentience, intelligence, reason. We actually can understand the concept of cause and effect. And now all we're doing is trying so hard to negate that by forcing this idea that people aren't responsible for their own actions, if they're bad enough.

Correction: if they're sick enough. If you constantly hear voices telling you kill people, and a tumor in your cranium is pressing on your amygdala, I'm sorry -- but you're not in full possession of the gifts you describe: sentience, intelligence and reason.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Lanx on Thu, 29 May 2014, 13:11:43
@Lanx: I'm not sure why he was living with three other guys, but he was definitely Asian himself. His mother's last name is Chin.

oh that's just great, a half asian hatin on full blooded asians. That means theres another asian shooting up college kids on american soil (virginia tech 2007)
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Thu, 29 May 2014, 13:35:31
People like Malphas (not Malphas, but similarly short sighted and ignorant) was largely responsible for creating Elliot Rodgers..   

Many of the traumatizing social interactions described in Elliot's memoir points squarely at  Malphas-like personalities.. 

Bull****. This is the kinda of pathetic self-pity that ER was spewing out in his YouTube videos, when he had no-one to blame but himself. All his "traumatic" experiences were just regular occurrences warped by his entitled mindset. e.g. He smiled at some girls and they didn't respond. Big deal. In fact, there's nothing really in his videos to suggest what he wanted was any kind of actual relationship, what he wanted was attention and sex. The way he talks about women, he describes seeing "hot, blonde girls" at his college, no mention of (perhaps plainer) girls he's talked to and wanted to get to know better, it's just physical attraction. And how why does he think they should be attracted to him? Because he drives a BMW and has £200 sunglasses. No-one was bullying or tormenting this kid, he was just a twisted freak (which is why I knew you'd sympathise with him, tp).
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 29 May 2014, 14:06:20
@Lanx: I'm not sure why he was living with three other guys, but he was definitely Asian himself. His mother's last name is Chin.

oh that's just great, a half asian hatin on full blooded asians. That means theres another asian shooting up college kids on american soil (virginia tech 2007)

naw, this is typical of his type of illness..

what happens is, he is in depression,   then his mind will attempt to stabilize him, so it swings his emotion in another direction,

so by enveloping himself in a delusion of grandeur (his superiority to everyone else), he is absolving himself of the plebeian nature of his existence.


It's really not important to linger on punishing, or castigating him, he's already dead..

What's important is to understand and  respond to the culmination of experiences that LEAD to the tragedy.. 

From that we can either prevent, or at least help those who are going through similar issues..


Malphas, this dude, sigh....  he is capable of commenting on everyone except himself...  reminds you of Elliot Rodgers, don't it?    H8'in on others, I'm always right... haha ... perhaps it's his way of putting off self-examination....  but ultimately what he's doing is only making himself more sick ..
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Lanx on Thu, 29 May 2014, 15:26:19
whats worse is how now everyone has their agenda to attend to, mainly gun control laws. Now i'm not a gun guy, (don't own, and last time i fired a gun i was 12) but these ppl pushing for stricter gun laws are just stupid too.

guns don't kill ppl, Crazies kill ppl.

half of this guys victims he knifed to death. somehow he was able knife 3 guys. ppl are speculating that he did it while they were asleep. but they said he went on the rampage before 9:30. so that means they believe that 3,  20-22 yr olds are asleep before 9:30 on a friday night?

not only that, but he was denied entry into the sorority he wanted to go into initially, that means he musta at least looked decent and not have like half a gallon of blood on him and cuts all over himself.

no amount of gun control would have stopped this guy, and again as stats show, 40% of his victims died up close and personal with a knife.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 29 May 2014, 15:31:49
no amount of gun control would have stopped this guy, and again as stats show, 40% of his victims died up close and personal with a knife.

You get out of here with your common sense. The people want stricter gun laws!

/sarcasm
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Lanx on Thu, 29 May 2014, 16:03:34
no amount of gun control would have stopped this guy, and again as stats show, 40% of his victims died up close and personal with a knife.

You get out of here with your common sense. The people want stricter gun laws!

/sarcasm

ok fine.

we should put stricter controls on bladed weapons. specifically we should have background checks on every sushi chef in California. It makes sense to restrict this to California, cuz... i mean duh, this is where the California Roll was invented.

also many sushi knives or in japanese yanagi's are 10in if not longer, whereas the usual and common place chef's knife is usually 8in.

Yanagi's are longer to produce the long slicing stroke needed to produce clean looking cuts on sashimi and sushi but also is a deadly long weapon.

these japanese knives are also created using the same techniques that were used to forge the iconic japanese death weapon, the samurai sword.

sword makes have now instead been creating cutlery instead of swords.

these japanese sushi knives are usually harder and hold an edge better than their german counterparts mainly due to the type of VG10 or blue steel that is being sandwiched by other metals, attributing this to ancient japanese sword maker secrets, which would allow more continuous killings in succession.

one side of the knife is also curved so that sashimi does not stick to the knife, this makes for an effective killing machine, which can lead to multiple killings, whereas modern european knives would have an issue with meat sticking to the blade, in effect, the inferior design of the european knives leads to more lives that can be saved.

(i've recently gotten into cutlery)
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: noisyturtle on Thu, 29 May 2014, 22:43:05
no amount of gun control would have stopped this guy, and again as stats show, 40% of his victims died up close and personal with a knife.

You get out of here with your common sense. The people want stricter gun laws!

/sarcasm

ok fine.

we should put stricter controls on bladed weapons. specifically we should have background checks on every sushi chef in California. It makes sense to restrict this to California, cuz... i mean duh, this is where the California Roll was invented.

also many sushi knives or in japanese yanagi's are 10in if not longer, whereas the usual and common place chef's knife is usually 8in.

Yanagi's are longer to produce the long slicing stroke needed to produce clean looking cuts on sashimi and sushi but also is a deadly long weapon.

these japanese knives are also created using the same techniques that were used to forge the iconic japanese death weapon, the samurai sword.

sword makes have now instead been creating cutlery instead of swords.

these japanese sushi knives are usually harder and hold an edge better than their german counterparts mainly due to the type of VG10 or blue steel that is being sandwiched by other metals, attributing this to ancient japanese sword maker secrets, which would allow more continuous killings in succession.

one side of the knife is also curved so that sashimi does not stick to the knife, this makes for an effective killing machine, which can lead to multiple killings, whereas modern european knives would have an issue with meat sticking to the blade, in effect, the inferior design of the european knives leads to more lives that can be saved.

(i've recently gotten into cutlery)

Frankly, I'd rather be shot than stabbed. I've seen a guy get stabbed and it looks very unpleasant, never seen anyone get shot but I've heard it's not so bad (assuming the bullet passes through a non-vital area.)
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: katushkin on Fri, 30 May 2014, 04:21:03
I think this goes to show that there needs to be more of a focus on mental health in America. This kid was picked up by the police a week before this happened, because people were concerned for his wellbeing. He was obviously a few sandwiches short of a picnic, and as a few of you have said, no amount of gun control laws would have prevented this.

However, more care for those with mental health issues could have. I'm not talking about drugs, because those things **** you up. Sometimes they can be worse than suffering from what they are trying to cure.

Mental health is the serious issue here, yet again, and, yet again, the American media is widely bypassing it to focus on what his parents bought him, and other made up garbage, like the creatine story.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: baldgye on Fri, 30 May 2014, 07:11:36
Quote
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

PS: I'm not religious at all, but I do believe in evil.

lulz
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: daerid on Fri, 30 May 2014, 11:58:45
Quote
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
PS: I'm not religious at all, but I do believe in evil.

lulz

Evil is a product of human behavior. It has nothing to do with any kind of supernatural influence, that's just retarded. But it does exist. I chose that quote because it accurately sums up my feelings on the matter.

I view "evil" as those who are bent towards the destruction and subjugation of others, rather than helping. No matter what we do, there will always, always be those in our society who "just want to watch the world burn" so to speak. And convincing the rest of us that they don't really exist and are misunderstood or are a product of their upbringing and not really responsible for their decisions and actions would be their holy grail. And they're doing it.

The problem with just labeling someone a monster and moving on is -- there's nothing else to be done. Monsters are evil, and we should hate evil. But I don't think that's going to stop the next mentally unstable person from finally cracking up. Maybe empathy for them won't stop these sorts of people, but how can it hurt? This kid felt very much an outsider -- it doesn't justify what he did, at all -- but a little empathy could help. When something like this happens, I always wonder, "what if someone, at a crucial juncture in this person's life, shown him or her some kindness?" Would it have tipped this person back towards sanity?

I will do everything in my power and support every possible initiative to show these people compassion and give them help. BEFORE THEY PULL THE TRIGGER. That's when they become monsters. That's where the line is. Once that happens, **** you. You've proven yourself detrimental to our society and need to be removed.

Quote
You're right -- nothing like what he described justifies murder. And I don't know for certain he had mental problems, but he sure looks like he had serious mental problems. And I can't help but feel sorry for someone like that -- the preening, the narcissism -- that's a show. This kid felt the opposite of all that -- and that makes me sad for him.


I have somebody very close to me who's said some of the same **** that ER did in his manifesto. And I worry about him, and try to give him help and understanding and empathy. But he hasn't murdered anybody yet. Hell, I would have felt sorry for Rodger too. But he's a murderer. He murdered innocent people. He had every opportunity in the universe to just...ya know...not murder people. But he did. And that was his decision. The moment he made that decision and killed his first victim, he lost all right to any compassion or empathy.

Quote
Correction: if they're sick enough. If you constantly hear voices telling you kill people, and a tumor in your cranium is pressing on your amygdala, I'm sorry -- but you're not in full possession of the gifts you describe: sentience, intelligence and reason.

Physiological conditions are a separate discussion from what I'm talking about. I'm talking about people like Rodger who (as far as I know) would pass a Doctor's exam for physical fitness, and yet still commit mass murder. My point is that rather than face the magnitude of the atrocity, at some point when an act is bad enough we just slap the "sick" label on the person and get all soft and touchy-feely. And that makes these kinds of acts more palatable for potential killers.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 30 May 2014, 12:18:13
Quote
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
PS: I'm not religious at all, but I do believe in evil.

lulz

Evil is a product of human behavior. It has nothing to do with any kind of supernatural influence, that's just retarded. But it does exist. I chose that quote because it accurately sums up my feelings on the matter.

I view "evil" as those who are bent towards the destruction and subjugation of others, rather than helping. No matter what we do, there will always, always be those in our society who "just want to watch the world burn" so to speak. And convincing the rest of us that they don't really exist and are misunderstood or are a product of their upbringing and not really responsible for their decisions and actions would be their holy grail. And they're doing it.

The problem with just labeling someone a monster and moving on is -- there's nothing else to be done. Monsters are evil, and we should hate evil. But I don't think that's going to stop the next mentally unstable person from finally cracking up. Maybe empathy for them won't stop these sorts of people, but how can it hurt? This kid felt very much an outsider -- it doesn't justify what he did, at all -- but a little empathy could help. When something like this happens, I always wonder, "what if someone, at a crucial juncture in this person's life, shown him or her some kindness?" Would it have tipped this person back towards sanity?

I will do everything in my power and support every possible initiative to show these people compassion and give them help. BEFORE THEY PULL THE TRIGGER. That's when they become monsters. That's where the line is. Once that happens, **** you. You've proven yourself detrimental to our society and need to be removed.

Quote
You're right -- nothing like what he described justifies murder. And I don't know for certain he had mental problems, but he sure looks like he had serious mental problems. And I can't help but feel sorry for someone like that -- the preening, the narcissism -- that's a show. This kid felt the opposite of all that -- and that makes me sad for him.


I have somebody very close to me who's said some of the same **** that ER did in his manifesto. And I worry about him, and try to give him help and understanding and empathy. But he hasn't murdered anybody yet. Hell, I would have felt sorry for Rodger too. But he's a murderer. He murdered innocent people. He had every opportunity in the universe to just...ya know...not murder people. But he did. And that was his decision. The moment he made that decision and killed his first victim, he lost all right to any compassion or empathy.

Quote
Correction: if they're sick enough. If you constantly hear voices telling you kill people, and a tumor in your cranium is pressing on your amygdala, I'm sorry -- but you're not in full possession of the gifts you describe: sentience, intelligence and reason.

Physiological conditions are a separate discussion from what I'm talking about. I'm talking about people like Rodger who (as far as I know) would pass a Doctor's exam for physical fitness, and yet still commit mass murder. My point is that rather than face the magnitude of the atrocity, at some point when an act is bad enough we just slap the "sick" label on the person and get all soft and touchy-feely. And that makes these kinds of acts more palatable for potential killers.


None of this is really necessary in the grand scheme of social planning, because we DO NOT have a population Decline due to the (Murder Rate)...


The way the entertainment news industry is set up is responsible for putting forth these non-existent social issues.


Gun control... for example.. people kill people, they always have...   The few gun related deaths a year kill far less people than  Conscious choices such as smoking and over-eating..

So.. yes, things such as psycho care COULD be better... of course,  but ultimately not pivotal..


More important problems exist...

Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: daerid on Fri, 30 May 2014, 12:29:05
^^ Great point TP
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Fri, 30 May 2014, 13:36:17
Yes, agreed. I mean, there probably should be some examination of why this kind of thing happens in the USA whilst it's almost non-existent elsewhere (though Europe is heading this way as well to some extent) and correcting the underlying causes, but on the other hand there are bigger fish to fry. How many people died falling down the stairs or out of bed in the USA last year? I don't know what the figure is but I'd imagine it's probably higher than deaths from spree killers, yet there's no media sensationalism or outcry about how to reduce it, as there is with the latter.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: inteli722 on Fri, 30 May 2014, 14:44:12
It seems like an increasingly worrying country. They have more travel restrictions than most developed nations, pretty relaxed gun laws and almost annual school shootings.

Every time one happens the 'gun debate' goes on, nothing changes, people find something else to blame, TV, Movies, Video Games, drugs etc etc.. And then the following year or so it happens again.

If I was American I would be worried about it and trying to find out the actual root cause and how to solve it. I don't think you can blame gun laws as if someone is intent on killing someone else or many people, they will find a way.

We know what the root cause is: Gun Laws, but not to remove guns. If teachers (and students in colleges) carried, then there woukd be fewer school shootings. The reason these people hit schools is because the chance of armed resistance before you can do a lot of damage is next to none.

Before you dismiss this as silly, look at crime rate in chicago before and after concealed carry was legalized. More legal guns usually mean less crime, not more.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Fri, 30 May 2014, 16:32:45
Insane argument. What about when the perpetrator is one of the teachers? Does that mean all the students should carry guns too, in case a teacher snaps and decided to go postal?
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: paicrai on Fri, 30 May 2014, 17:33:01
mmm love where this **** went
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 30 May 2014, 17:50:16
mmm love where this **** went
(Attachment Link)

Paicrai blames Anime girls,  making him think all the wrong things.

(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/embarrassed2-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862502)
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 30 May 2014, 18:02:13
mmm love where this **** went
(Attachment Link)

Paicrai blames Anime girls,  making him think all the wrong things.

Show Image
(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/embarrassed2-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862502)


Barenaked Ladies reference?
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Fri, 30 May 2014, 18:23:34
Before you dismiss this as silly, look at crime rate in chicago before and after concealed carry was legalized. More legal guns usually mean less crime, not more.

Also, it would be interesting to see if there was any relationship there. A correlation isn't a cause, and it's dishonest to try and pretend it is to promote your viewpoint. It's not enough to say crime decreased in Chicago after concealed carry was legalised, when the crime rate was already falling year by year for the past two decades anyway. I'm not saying there isn't a decrease in crime as a result of concealed carry, but you'll have to find better evidence for it than that.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: inteli722 on Fri, 30 May 2014, 18:34:48
Insane argument. What about when the perpetrator is one of the teachers? Does that mean all the students should carry guns too, in case a teacher snaps and decided to go postal?

That is a valid point, but in most high schools (don't know about college), the classrooms are close together and not soundproofed enough to suppress a gunshot. In addition, AFAIK, most schools use the same key for all the classrooms, meaning the amount of damage a teacher could do if they went off their rocker would be minimized as well.

What better arguements have you?
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 30 May 2014, 19:55:34
mmm love where this **** went
(Attachment Link)

Paicrai blames Anime girls,  making him think all the wrong things.

Show Image
(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/embarrassed2-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862502)


Barenaked Ladies reference?

(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/cute2-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862498)
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: baldgye on Sat, 31 May 2014, 04:35:31
It seems like an increasingly worrying country. They have more travel restrictions than most developed nations, pretty relaxed gun laws and almost annual school shootings.

Every time one happens the 'gun debate' goes on, nothing changes, people find something else to blame, TV, Movies, Video Games, drugs etc etc.. And then the following year or so it happens again.

If I was American I would be worried about it and trying to find out the actual root cause and how to solve it. I don't think you can blame gun laws as if someone is intent on killing someone else or many people, they will find a way.

We know what the root cause is: Gun Laws, but not to remove guns. If teachers (and students in colleges) carried, then there woukd be fewer school shootings. The reason these people hit schools is because the chance of armed resistance before you can do a lot of damage is next to none.

Before you dismiss this as silly, look at crime rate in chicago before and after concealed carry was legalized. More legal guns usually mean less crime, not more.

Hahahaha love it, the only way to deal with guns, is more guns... The gun laws in America have almost nothing to do with this case though, so bringing it up is like bringing up CoD censorship as a way to deal with it.

The only way to deal with crimes like these is better mental health institutions and better recognition of mental health issues and how to deal with them.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: berserkfan on Sat, 31 May 2014, 04:38:20
malphas step away from the cocaine

Nah.. he's not on drugs.. he's just a ****...

Having read every post to this point, it's clear to me Malphas is really, really low on empathy. Even though tp4tissue can be opinionated and offensive (and so can I), ultimately we're not deficient in this basic human thing called empathy and this makes us normal.

I'd say, Malphas, do the world a favor, take only jobs that involve technical skill and don't involve people interactions. I'd hate to have you as a boss, a client or a co-worker.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Beca on Sat, 31 May 2014, 05:23:10
malphas step away from the cocaine

Nah.. he's not on drugs.. he's just a ****...

Having read every post to this point, it's clear to me Malphas is really, really low on empathy. Even though tp4tissue can be opinionated and offensive (and so can I), ultimately we're not deficient in this basic human thing called empathy and this makes us normal.

I'd say, Malphas, do the world a favor, take only jobs that involve technical skill and don't involve people interactions. I'd hate to have you as a boss, a client or a co-worker.
i'm hoping he's just trying to be a massive troll...

if not, it's frightening to be reminded that many people simply lack empathy, or any semblance of human compassion. it's insane.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 31 May 2014, 05:38:33
i'm hoping he's just trying to be a massive troll...

if not, it's frightening to be reminded that many people simply lack empathy, or any semblance of human compassion. it's insane.

Nah, he's pretty much the same in every thread.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: iri on Sat, 31 May 2014, 06:10:01
It seems like an increasingly worrying country. They have more travel restrictions than most developed nations, pretty relaxed gun laws and almost annual school shootings.

Every time one happens the 'gun debate' goes on, nothing changes, people find something else to blame, TV, Movies, Video Games, drugs etc etc.. And then the following year or so it happens again.

If I was American I would be worried about it and trying to find out the actual root cause and how to solve it. I don't think you can blame gun laws as if someone is intent on killing someone else or many people, they will find a way.

We know what the root cause is: Gun Laws, but not to remove guns. If teachers (and students in colleges) carried, then there woukd be fewer school shootings. The reason these people hit schools is because the chance of armed resistance before you can do a lot of damage is next to none.

Before you dismiss this as silly, look at crime rate in chicago before and after concealed carry was legalized. More legal guns usually mean less crime, not more.

Hahahaha love it, the only way to deal with guns, is more guns...
that's the only reasonably fast solution to mass shootings that will work in the states.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: baldgye on Sat, 31 May 2014, 07:42:43
I wonder how many people in this thread would fail the Voight-Kampff test...
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: ferociousfingerings on Sat, 31 May 2014, 09:04:01
ugh, so tempting... many things i want to say, in response to some of the comments... but it's all over the place, and i can't say what i want to say, without writing way too much (we all know how people love reading long posts... two of which have already been discarded).

All these years, and i still have a hard time letting people be wrong on the internet. At this point, i doubt i'll ever become proficient in such a thing... but i try.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 31 May 2014, 10:25:31
ugh, so tempting... many things i want to say, in response to some of the comments... but it's all over the place, and i can't say what i want to say, without writing way too much (we all know how people love reading long posts... two of which have already been discarded).

All these years, and i still have a hard time letting people be wrong on the internet. At this point, i doubt i'll ever become proficient in such a thing... but i try.

well that's several lines of writing about nothing.. haha(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/bird-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862491)
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Sat, 31 May 2014, 16:49:27
malphas step away from the cocaine

Nah.. he's not on drugs.. he's just a ****...

Having read every post to this point, it's clear to me Malphas is really, really low on empathy. Even though tp4tissue can be opinionated and offensive (and so can I), ultimately we're not deficient in this basic human thing called empathy and this makes us normal.

I'd say, Malphas, do the world a favor, take only jobs that involve technical skill and don't involve people interactions. I'd hate to have you as a boss, a client or a co-worker.

I'm regularly in charge of teams of around 6-12 people in different locations around the world, often with different nationalities. I do very well with people.

I'm not really in the business of feeling sorry for rich kids that go on murder sprees because hot girls don't talk to them.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: daerid on Sat, 31 May 2014, 16:59:47
Malphas may have an unpopular opinion, but it seems most people in here are doing the same thing to him that they're accusing him of doing to Elliot Rodger.

People aren't black and white. The knee-jerk reaction to vilify everything about a person just because you disagree with something that person said is IMO one of the worst things about humanity today.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Sat, 31 May 2014, 17:03:49
The whole thread is hilarious. It's not a reaction you'd get on most places. I'd expect it on 4chan or something, like a place full of losers that probably identify with him, but I thought we had normal socially-functioning adults here.

Basically, make absurd videos about how life owes you, and how unfair it is that hot women that you're only interested in on a purely physical level aren't throwing themselves at you, then go out on a killing spree over it = poor, misunderstood individual that needed counselling and hugs.

Make fun of said individual for the ridiculous videos rather than sympathy = monster/satan/troll
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: baldgye on Sat, 31 May 2014, 17:09:35
I'd expect it on 4chan or something, like a place full of losers that probably identify with him, but I thought we had normal socially-functioning adults here.

The knee-jerk reaction to vilify everything about a person just because you disagree with something that person said is IMO one of the worst things about humanity today.


:D
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Sat, 31 May 2014, 17:13:16
I've never vilified a single person I've disagreed with on here, if that's what you're implying baldgye. Me and Krogenar have had civil but opposing arguments dozens of times, for instance. The only person I've ever said anything negative about on a personal level has been tp4, but that's because he's awful and boring, not because I've disagreed with anything he's said.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Beca on Sat, 31 May 2014, 17:16:59
The whole thread is hilarious. It's not a reaction you'd get on most places. I'd expect it on 4chan or something, like a place full of losers that probably identify with him, but I thought we had normal socially-functioning adults here.

Basically, make absurd videos about how life owes you, and how unfair it is that hot women that you're only interested in on a purely physical level aren't throwing themselves at you, then go out on a killing spree over it = poor, misunderstood individual that needed counselling and hugs.

Make fun of said individual for the ridiculous videos rather than sympathy = monster/satan/troll
idk how you continually connect empathy with SOME of elliot's more mild feelings (rejection, loneliness, NOT murderous rage, insanity, or narcissism) with condoning or excusing his actions because of his mental illness. he's still a monster who did an extremely stupid, irrational, and ****ed up thing. i can never sympathize or empathize with the action of murdering random, innocent people because I was mad over not getting laid.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: baldgye on Sat, 31 May 2014, 17:18:12
I've never vilified a single person I've disagreed with on here, if that's what you're implying baldgye. Me and Krogenar have had civil but opposing arguments dozens of times, for instance. The only person I've ever said anything negative about on a personal level has been tp4, but that's because he's awful and boring, not because I've disagreed with anything he's said.

Well you imply that anyone that sympathises with him is a looser, not the same, true but with back to back posts like that (given that you two seem to share an opinion on this subject) amused me at least.

Laughing at retards isn't big or cleaver, what most people in here realise however that too many people have been murdered by unstable and unhelped (did I make that word up?) and that the time for change is long over-due in regards to mental health in America, simply laughing at them dsnt help solve that problem or help protect the next bunch of unlucky people murdered at the hands of another lunatic.


It's fine to disagree with people, it wouldn't be much of a forum if everyone shared the same opinion ;)
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: Malphas on Sat, 31 May 2014, 17:23:09
I simply don't care enough about the subject to express my wider views on people with mental health issues and the danger posed to society by them. My motivation for making this thread was triggered by laughing at his videos and how embarrassing/awful they are.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: baldgye on Sat, 31 May 2014, 17:25:36
I simply don't care enough about the subject to express my wider views on people with mental health issues and the danger posed to society by them. My motivation for making this thread was triggered by laughing at his videos and how embarrassing/awful they are.

I assumed as much
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: hashbaz on Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:54:34
Basically, make absurd videos about how life owes you, and how unfair it is that hot women that you're only interested in on a purely physical level aren't throwing themselves at you, then go out on a killing spree over it = poor, misunderstood confused individual that needed counselling and hugs.

^^ Corrected this to match my feelings on the matter.

The murder can't be excused, obviously.  Nobody is saying that it can be.  But that doesn't change the fact that he was messed up, in pain and in serious need of help.  His videos are pathetic.  Laugh at him if you want but they indicate that he needed help and wasn't getting it.  And there are thousands more like him.  That's the part I sympathize with.
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:26:24
Basically, make absurd videos about how life owes you, and how unfair it is that hot women that you're only interested in on a purely physical level aren't throwing themselves at you, then go out on a killing spree over it = poor, misunderstood confused individual that needed counselling and hugs.

^^ Corrected this to match my feelings on the matter.

The murder can't be excused, obviously.  Nobody is saying that it can be.  But that doesn't change the fact that he was messed up, in pain and in serious need of help.  His videos are pathetic.  Laugh at him if you want but they indicate that he needed help and wasn't getting it.  And there are thousands more like him.  That's the part I sympathize with.

his videos are not a complete representation of him as a person..

Everyone has a rough side...

if you've read his journal, you'd see that while his belief is wrong and his choices poor..   every step was at least logical.. 

Suicides and mass killings are the same in that  the perpetrator succumbs to hopelessness..

It's giving up...  sometimes they just die,  other times, they give in to whatever momentary wave of emotion is left in them...



It is Never productive to judge one action taken out of context, assign blame, then condemn...

That is the attitude I hope you all take a step back to look at...


That attitude towards others is referenced over and over again in Elliot's journal..
 
EVEN in people who probably weren't behaving as such.. 

The reason that "that" misconception could've occurred, is due to the prevalence of the "quick dispatch behavior" in modern society..


In many ways Elliot is someone who was not able to keep up with the pace of social change, having had the misfortune of critical mis-steps that may have been out of his control.



I find the talk about sympathy irrelevant..  It is not out of sympathy that I carry analysis, it's out of the necessity to Rectify and Prevent that I look into the how and why..



What many of you have done is label and dismiss... without looking into the process...
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: berserkfan on Fri, 06 June 2014, 09:38:26
just to give a necro bump after most of the heat has died down

someone mentioned this to me today and yes, once again I couldn't stop thinking about it.

It bothers me that 3 of his roommates, who appear to be Asian (as opposed to Asian Americans), got stabbed to death at a time when almost nobody is asleep.

This reminds me of many Asian college kids I met when I studied in the US.

I don't know what it is with them, but there is an incredible naivete about many of these middle class, hard-working Asian students. They are so brainwashed in the Confucian harmony crap we get in Asia, that they spend all their time studying and imagine that they don't need to do anything in life except get good grades. They are not aware of threats, potential threats, crazy people, that kind of thing.

A lot are simply not streetwise.

I never became very streetwise, but I was cautious, and I did learn a lot (hopefully). As the saying goes, the wise man learns from other's mistakes. Whenever I talked to an American (and that includes panhandlers), I tried to learn something.

I had roommates of all kinds and I learned to keep my eyes open and respect my sense of smell.

The fact that Roger was NUTS should have been freaking obvious to all except, regrettably, the same Asian kids I remember who only know how to shuttle between the library and their rooms. I knew lots of Asian kids who hardly knew or cared a damn about their roommates - they just studied, went home, studied some more.

This Mad Murderer is largely a white American kid, by his background, his upbringing and his general looks. His face is the kind that most people aren't going to call him Asian and do nasty slitty eyed gestures on. He's got an Anglo name, an Anglo father and a BMW. I don't think he would have been out of place among other privileged white kids from 90210. Not to mention his racist rants suggest he would have self-identified with other white kids.

The fact that he isn't hanging out with other privileged white kids, of course, is that the white kids figured there was something wrong with him. Like that white ex-roommate who mentioned hearing the click of a gun all night and got out asap.

One thing I did notice, is that white kids, even the rural or suburban ones, are much more streetwise.

Why would Roger hang out with Asian kids who are clearly from Taiwan or China? [Based on the names, I ascribe much lower probability of them being Cantonese so I excluded HK.] I think these were the only people willing to take him on as a roommate.

Long before he went amok (deliberate use of an English word of Asian origin), he was collecting guns and talking and acting weird. He got a visit from the police. His roommates didn't clue in?

I served in the military. I can recognize the clicking sound of a gun. I would have talked to my roommate if I heard these sounds. I actually like guns but never had the chance to shoot in the US (no license). If roommate didn't engage me properly, if we didn't make a connection and become buddies over our liking for guns, if he seemed to be holding on to a gun because he was weird and deluded and angry or something, I would have moved out ASAP. Even would have made the effort to move when Roger was not in, so that I wouldn't risk his anger.

One has to be streetwise to survive!

Damn it, I'm so frustrated at the bad things that happened to these 3 roommates of Roger. Such freaking bad luck! But they could have swung the odds very much in their favor! That's exactly what it was like also when I was in college. The Asia-Asian kids lived in their own bubbles. One Singaporean in an Ivy League told me she was proud that she could spend a month without talking to a non-Singaporean or Malaysian student. I was thinking: she's nuts.

If my roommate was visited by a whole bunch of police, I WOULD know, because someone in the block would have told me, because I made a point to at least greet people and know them by face and have an idea who is living in my block and strike up conversations in the lift and what not. I'm not a sociable man actually - I just think these ice-breaking acts are good in general. I certainly spent a lot of time talking with doormen in the places I lived that did have doormen; doormen are your No.1 line of defense in the gun-totin paradise that is America.

lastly: really am puzzled how come Roger could have stabbed 3 people to death without at least sustaining some injuries. He's not a trained commando and is in fact a notoriously bullied nerd/ klutz. I'd have grabbed something, anything, and fought back. I do have a model F on my table now, and back in college I had my model M. All students must have at least a light or table lamp; something with metal in it within easy reach. One versus three - the other roommates didn't arm themselves, call the police, or at least make a lot of noise that the neighbours would know? Were they taken off guard so easily?

I always locked my bedroom door when I was sleeping in college. It's a basic security precaution. Even in the 1990s it was a well known fact that the US was bristling with guns and crazies and these two often came together. [Since I was living in a ghetto, I was mostly concerned about home invasions by the gun-totin homies indigenous to ghettos. Lots of people were burgled.]

It's so distressing. And you can see I'm distressed, that's why I am typing up a storm. (I also like my current keyboard, sold to me courtesy of Tarzan.)

As an experienced cook by the time I was in college, I am probably a lot less afraid of knives than some people. But yes, it takes many stabs to kill if someone is not trained. Cutting meat is not that easy. The roommates had time and opportunity to resist. They had no choice; their lives were on the line. They needed to fight and not cower and beg for mercy against a madman!

Sigh. Characteristic Confucians.
[btw when said in Chinese, the above is a pun, because Confucian also means nerd/ weak. I'm bothered that many students of Asian origin in the US have come from very peaceful, low-crime cultures. They are lacking in street smarts and don't know how to take decisive action to protect themselves in the predatory environment of the US. I expressed these concerns years ago, I was laughed at. Sigh Sigh Sigh.]
Title: Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
Post by: paicrai on Fri, 06 June 2014, 09:42:23
[attachimg=1]
if you get all uppity about this video: he's playing a character, sort of, most of his views are still reflected.