Author Topic: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)  (Read 28374 times)

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Offline inteli722

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #100 on: Fri, 30 May 2014, 18:34:48 »
Insane argument. What about when the perpetrator is one of the teachers? Does that mean all the students should carry guns too, in case a teacher snaps and decided to go postal?

That is a valid point, but in most high schools (don't know about college), the classrooms are close together and not soundproofed enough to suppress a gunshot. In addition, AFAIK, most schools use the same key for all the classrooms, meaning the amount of damage a teacher could do if they went off their rocker would be minimized as well.

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Offline baldgye

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #102 on: Sat, 31 May 2014, 04:35:31 »
It seems like an increasingly worrying country. They have more travel restrictions than most developed nations, pretty relaxed gun laws and almost annual school shootings.

Every time one happens the 'gun debate' goes on, nothing changes, people find something else to blame, TV, Movies, Video Games, drugs etc etc.. And then the following year or so it happens again.

If I was American I would be worried about it and trying to find out the actual root cause and how to solve it. I don't think you can blame gun laws as if someone is intent on killing someone else or many people, they will find a way.

We know what the root cause is: Gun Laws, but not to remove guns. If teachers (and students in colleges) carried, then there woukd be fewer school shootings. The reason these people hit schools is because the chance of armed resistance before you can do a lot of damage is next to none.

Before you dismiss this as silly, look at crime rate in chicago before and after concealed carry was legalized. More legal guns usually mean less crime, not more.

Hahahaha love it, the only way to deal with guns, is more guns... The gun laws in America have almost nothing to do with this case though, so bringing it up is like bringing up CoD censorship as a way to deal with it.

The only way to deal with crimes like these is better mental health institutions and better recognition of mental health issues and how to deal with them.

Offline berserkfan

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #103 on: Sat, 31 May 2014, 04:38:20 »
malphas step away from the cocaine

Nah.. he's not on drugs.. he's just a ****...

Having read every post to this point, it's clear to me Malphas is really, really low on empathy. Even though tp4tissue can be opinionated and offensive (and so can I), ultimately we're not deficient in this basic human thing called empathy and this makes us normal.

I'd say, Malphas, do the world a favor, take only jobs that involve technical skill and don't involve people interactions. I'd hate to have you as a boss, a client or a co-worker.
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Offline Beca

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #104 on: Sat, 31 May 2014, 05:23:10 »
malphas step away from the cocaine

Nah.. he's not on drugs.. he's just a ****...

Having read every post to this point, it's clear to me Malphas is really, really low on empathy. Even though tp4tissue can be opinionated and offensive (and so can I), ultimately we're not deficient in this basic human thing called empathy and this makes us normal.

I'd say, Malphas, do the world a favor, take only jobs that involve technical skill and don't involve people interactions. I'd hate to have you as a boss, a client or a co-worker.
i'm hoping he's just trying to be a massive troll...

if not, it's frightening to be reminded that many people simply lack empathy, or any semblance of human compassion. it's insane.

Offline katushkin

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #105 on: Sat, 31 May 2014, 05:38:33 »
i'm hoping he's just trying to be a massive troll...

if not, it's frightening to be reminded that many people simply lack empathy, or any semblance of human compassion. it's insane.

Nah, he's pretty much the same in every thread.
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Offline iri

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #106 on: Sat, 31 May 2014, 06:10:01 »
It seems like an increasingly worrying country. They have more travel restrictions than most developed nations, pretty relaxed gun laws and almost annual school shootings.

Every time one happens the 'gun debate' goes on, nothing changes, people find something else to blame, TV, Movies, Video Games, drugs etc etc.. And then the following year or so it happens again.

If I was American I would be worried about it and trying to find out the actual root cause and how to solve it. I don't think you can blame gun laws as if someone is intent on killing someone else or many people, they will find a way.

We know what the root cause is: Gun Laws, but not to remove guns. If teachers (and students in colleges) carried, then there woukd be fewer school shootings. The reason these people hit schools is because the chance of armed resistance before you can do a lot of damage is next to none.

Before you dismiss this as silly, look at crime rate in chicago before and after concealed carry was legalized. More legal guns usually mean less crime, not more.

Hahahaha love it, the only way to deal with guns, is more guns...
that's the only reasonably fast solution to mass shootings that will work in the states.
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Offline baldgye

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #107 on: Sat, 31 May 2014, 07:42:43 »
I wonder how many people in this thread would fail the Voight-Kampff test...

Offline ferociousfingerings

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #108 on: Sat, 31 May 2014, 09:04:01 »
ugh, so tempting... many things i want to say, in response to some of the comments... but it's all over the place, and i can't say what i want to say, without writing way too much (we all know how people love reading long posts... two of which have already been discarded).

All these years, and i still have a hard time letting people be wrong on the internet. At this point, i doubt i'll ever become proficient in such a thing... but i try.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #109 on: Sat, 31 May 2014, 10:25:31 »
ugh, so tempting... many things i want to say, in response to some of the comments... but it's all over the place, and i can't say what i want to say, without writing way too much (we all know how people love reading long posts... two of which have already been discarded).

All these years, and i still have a hard time letting people be wrong on the internet. At this point, i doubt i'll ever become proficient in such a thing... but i try.

well that's several lines of writing about nothing.. haha

Offline Malphas

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #110 on: Sat, 31 May 2014, 16:49:27 »
malphas step away from the cocaine

Nah.. he's not on drugs.. he's just a ****...

Having read every post to this point, it's clear to me Malphas is really, really low on empathy. Even though tp4tissue can be opinionated and offensive (and so can I), ultimately we're not deficient in this basic human thing called empathy and this makes us normal.

I'd say, Malphas, do the world a favor, take only jobs that involve technical skill and don't involve people interactions. I'd hate to have you as a boss, a client or a co-worker.

I'm regularly in charge of teams of around 6-12 people in different locations around the world, often with different nationalities. I do very well with people.

I'm not really in the business of feeling sorry for rich kids that go on murder sprees because hot girls don't talk to them.

Offline daerid

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #111 on: Sat, 31 May 2014, 16:59:47 »
Malphas may have an unpopular opinion, but it seems most people in here are doing the same thing to him that they're accusing him of doing to Elliot Rodger.

People aren't black and white. The knee-jerk reaction to vilify everything about a person just because you disagree with something that person said is IMO one of the worst things about humanity today.

Offline Malphas

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #112 on: Sat, 31 May 2014, 17:03:49 »
The whole thread is hilarious. It's not a reaction you'd get on most places. I'd expect it on 4chan or something, like a place full of losers that probably identify with him, but I thought we had normal socially-functioning adults here.

Basically, make absurd videos about how life owes you, and how unfair it is that hot women that you're only interested in on a purely physical level aren't throwing themselves at you, then go out on a killing spree over it = poor, misunderstood individual that needed counselling and hugs.

Make fun of said individual for the ridiculous videos rather than sympathy = monster/satan/troll

Offline baldgye

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #113 on: Sat, 31 May 2014, 17:09:35 »
I'd expect it on 4chan or something, like a place full of losers that probably identify with him, but I thought we had normal socially-functioning adults here.

The knee-jerk reaction to vilify everything about a person just because you disagree with something that person said is IMO one of the worst things about humanity today.


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Offline Malphas

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #114 on: Sat, 31 May 2014, 17:13:16 »
I've never vilified a single person I've disagreed with on here, if that's what you're implying baldgye. Me and Krogenar have had civil but opposing arguments dozens of times, for instance. The only person I've ever said anything negative about on a personal level has been tp4, but that's because he's awful and boring, not because I've disagreed with anything he's said.

Offline Beca

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #115 on: Sat, 31 May 2014, 17:16:59 »
The whole thread is hilarious. It's not a reaction you'd get on most places. I'd expect it on 4chan or something, like a place full of losers that probably identify with him, but I thought we had normal socially-functioning adults here.

Basically, make absurd videos about how life owes you, and how unfair it is that hot women that you're only interested in on a purely physical level aren't throwing themselves at you, then go out on a killing spree over it = poor, misunderstood individual that needed counselling and hugs.

Make fun of said individual for the ridiculous videos rather than sympathy = monster/satan/troll
idk how you continually connect empathy with SOME of elliot's more mild feelings (rejection, loneliness, NOT murderous rage, insanity, or narcissism) with condoning or excusing his actions because of his mental illness. he's still a monster who did an extremely stupid, irrational, and ****ed up thing. i can never sympathize or empathize with the action of murdering random, innocent people because I was mad over not getting laid.

Offline baldgye

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #116 on: Sat, 31 May 2014, 17:18:12 »
I've never vilified a single person I've disagreed with on here, if that's what you're implying baldgye. Me and Krogenar have had civil but opposing arguments dozens of times, for instance. The only person I've ever said anything negative about on a personal level has been tp4, but that's because he's awful and boring, not because I've disagreed with anything he's said.

Well you imply that anyone that sympathises with him is a looser, not the same, true but with back to back posts like that (given that you two seem to share an opinion on this subject) amused me at least.

Laughing at retards isn't big or cleaver, what most people in here realise however that too many people have been murdered by unstable and unhelped (did I make that word up?) and that the time for change is long over-due in regards to mental health in America, simply laughing at them dsnt help solve that problem or help protect the next bunch of unlucky people murdered at the hands of another lunatic.


It's fine to disagree with people, it wouldn't be much of a forum if everyone shared the same opinion ;)

Offline Malphas

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #117 on: Sat, 31 May 2014, 17:23:09 »
I simply don't care enough about the subject to express my wider views on people with mental health issues and the danger posed to society by them. My motivation for making this thread was triggered by laughing at his videos and how embarrassing/awful they are.

Offline baldgye

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #118 on: Sat, 31 May 2014, 17:25:36 »
I simply don't care enough about the subject to express my wider views on people with mental health issues and the danger posed to society by them. My motivation for making this thread was triggered by laughing at his videos and how embarrassing/awful they are.

I assumed as much

Offline hashbaz

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #119 on: Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:54:34 »
Basically, make absurd videos about how life owes you, and how unfair it is that hot women that you're only interested in on a purely physical level aren't throwing themselves at you, then go out on a killing spree over it = poor, misunderstood confused individual that needed counselling and hugs.

^^ Corrected this to match my feelings on the matter.

The murder can't be excused, obviously.  Nobody is saying that it can be.  But that doesn't change the fact that he was messed up, in pain and in serious need of help.  His videos are pathetic.  Laugh at him if you want but they indicate that he needed help and wasn't getting it.  And there are thousands more like him.  That's the part I sympathize with.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #120 on: Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:26:24 »
Basically, make absurd videos about how life owes you, and how unfair it is that hot women that you're only interested in on a purely physical level aren't throwing themselves at you, then go out on a killing spree over it = poor, misunderstood confused individual that needed counselling and hugs.

^^ Corrected this to match my feelings on the matter.

The murder can't be excused, obviously.  Nobody is saying that it can be.  But that doesn't change the fact that he was messed up, in pain and in serious need of help.  His videos are pathetic.  Laugh at him if you want but they indicate that he needed help and wasn't getting it.  And there are thousands more like him.  That's the part I sympathize with.

his videos are not a complete representation of him as a person..

Everyone has a rough side...

if you've read his journal, you'd see that while his belief is wrong and his choices poor..   every step was at least logical.. 

Suicides and mass killings are the same in that  the perpetrator succumbs to hopelessness..

It's giving up...  sometimes they just die,  other times, they give in to whatever momentary wave of emotion is left in them...



It is Never productive to judge one action taken out of context, assign blame, then condemn...

That is the attitude I hope you all take a step back to look at...


That attitude towards others is referenced over and over again in Elliot's journal..
 
EVEN in people who probably weren't behaving as such.. 

The reason that "that" misconception could've occurred, is due to the prevalence of the "quick dispatch behavior" in modern society..


In many ways Elliot is someone who was not able to keep up with the pace of social change, having had the misfortune of critical mis-steps that may have been out of his control.



I find the talk about sympathy irrelevant..  It is not out of sympathy that I carry analysis, it's out of the necessity to Rectify and Prevent that I look into the how and why..



What many of you have done is label and dismiss... without looking into the process...

Offline berserkfan

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #121 on: Fri, 06 June 2014, 09:38:26 »
just to give a necro bump after most of the heat has died down

someone mentioned this to me today and yes, once again I couldn't stop thinking about it.

It bothers me that 3 of his roommates, who appear to be Asian (as opposed to Asian Americans), got stabbed to death at a time when almost nobody is asleep.

This reminds me of many Asian college kids I met when I studied in the US.

I don't know what it is with them, but there is an incredible naivete about many of these middle class, hard-working Asian students. They are so brainwashed in the Confucian harmony crap we get in Asia, that they spend all their time studying and imagine that they don't need to do anything in life except get good grades. They are not aware of threats, potential threats, crazy people, that kind of thing.

A lot are simply not streetwise.

I never became very streetwise, but I was cautious, and I did learn a lot (hopefully). As the saying goes, the wise man learns from other's mistakes. Whenever I talked to an American (and that includes panhandlers), I tried to learn something.

I had roommates of all kinds and I learned to keep my eyes open and respect my sense of smell.

The fact that Roger was NUTS should have been freaking obvious to all except, regrettably, the same Asian kids I remember who only know how to shuttle between the library and their rooms. I knew lots of Asian kids who hardly knew or cared a damn about their roommates - they just studied, went home, studied some more.

This Mad Murderer is largely a white American kid, by his background, his upbringing and his general looks. His face is the kind that most people aren't going to call him Asian and do nasty slitty eyed gestures on. He's got an Anglo name, an Anglo father and a BMW. I don't think he would have been out of place among other privileged white kids from 90210. Not to mention his racist rants suggest he would have self-identified with other white kids.

The fact that he isn't hanging out with other privileged white kids, of course, is that the white kids figured there was something wrong with him. Like that white ex-roommate who mentioned hearing the click of a gun all night and got out asap.

One thing I did notice, is that white kids, even the rural or suburban ones, are much more streetwise.

Why would Roger hang out with Asian kids who are clearly from Taiwan or China? [Based on the names, I ascribe much lower probability of them being Cantonese so I excluded HK.] I think these were the only people willing to take him on as a roommate.

Long before he went amok (deliberate use of an English word of Asian origin), he was collecting guns and talking and acting weird. He got a visit from the police. His roommates didn't clue in?

I served in the military. I can recognize the clicking sound of a gun. I would have talked to my roommate if I heard these sounds. I actually like guns but never had the chance to shoot in the US (no license). If roommate didn't engage me properly, if we didn't make a connection and become buddies over our liking for guns, if he seemed to be holding on to a gun because he was weird and deluded and angry or something, I would have moved out ASAP. Even would have made the effort to move when Roger was not in, so that I wouldn't risk his anger.

One has to be streetwise to survive!

Damn it, I'm so frustrated at the bad things that happened to these 3 roommates of Roger. Such freaking bad luck! But they could have swung the odds very much in their favor! That's exactly what it was like also when I was in college. The Asia-Asian kids lived in their own bubbles. One Singaporean in an Ivy League told me she was proud that she could spend a month without talking to a non-Singaporean or Malaysian student. I was thinking: she's nuts.

If my roommate was visited by a whole bunch of police, I WOULD know, because someone in the block would have told me, because I made a point to at least greet people and know them by face and have an idea who is living in my block and strike up conversations in the lift and what not. I'm not a sociable man actually - I just think these ice-breaking acts are good in general. I certainly spent a lot of time talking with doormen in the places I lived that did have doormen; doormen are your No.1 line of defense in the gun-totin paradise that is America.

lastly: really am puzzled how come Roger could have stabbed 3 people to death without at least sustaining some injuries. He's not a trained commando and is in fact a notoriously bullied nerd/ klutz. I'd have grabbed something, anything, and fought back. I do have a model F on my table now, and back in college I had my model M. All students must have at least a light or table lamp; something with metal in it within easy reach. One versus three - the other roommates didn't arm themselves, call the police, or at least make a lot of noise that the neighbours would know? Were they taken off guard so easily?

I always locked my bedroom door when I was sleeping in college. It's a basic security precaution. Even in the 1990s it was a well known fact that the US was bristling with guns and crazies and these two often came together. [Since I was living in a ghetto, I was mostly concerned about home invasions by the gun-totin homies indigenous to ghettos. Lots of people were burgled.]

It's so distressing. And you can see I'm distressed, that's why I am typing up a storm. (I also like my current keyboard, sold to me courtesy of Tarzan.)

As an experienced cook by the time I was in college, I am probably a lot less afraid of knives than some people. But yes, it takes many stabs to kill if someone is not trained. Cutting meat is not that easy. The roommates had time and opportunity to resist. They had no choice; their lives were on the line. They needed to fight and not cower and beg for mercy against a madman!

Sigh. Characteristic Confucians.
[btw when said in Chinese, the above is a pun, because Confucian also means nerd/ weak. I'm bothered that many students of Asian origin in the US have come from very peaceful, low-crime cultures. They are lacking in street smarts and don't know how to take decisive action to protect themselves in the predatory environment of the US. I expressed these concerns years ago, I was laughed at. Sigh Sigh Sigh.]
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Offline paicrai

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Re: Elliot Rodger Killer (Has this been posted already?)
« Reply #122 on: Fri, 06 June 2014, 09:42:23 »

if you get all uppity about this video: he's playing a character, sort of, most of his views are still reflected.
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