Im kind of unsure as to the proper terminology rubber dome or membrane for these keyboards.Well it's both innit? Rubber dome over membrane, really.
These are my 2 favorites of this type.
The IBM is also available in black, and swapping keys with cases looks good - either way.
I'm somewhat interested in trying one, but not enough to buy one.
Since you're comparing to other boards, you need to try some non-cherry mechanical.
I wonder why it wasnt common to have rubber dampeners to cushion where the key caps bottom out. That seems like a good strategy. I think the Apple Extended Keyboard II uses dampeners. Ill know soon enough.The Ivory and White Alps ones, which are the most common, have rubber dampeners, yeah. Some versions came with Salmon Alps, though.
These Alps Blacks in this new Dell AT101W 1999 (Mexico) are smooth as butter. The keyboard is pretty big, but not huge.Possibly. Mine is from 2001 too.
What was the latest date the Dell AT101W was produced? Latest date Ive seen is 2001 (by chance).
The rubber dampeners in the Apple keyboards were there to quiet the switch, not the keycap. Keycap dampening is done by o rings.
Why didnt Dell continue to produce this model or something similar with Alps switches into USB after the turn of the century. For shame!They were still being made after 2000, although it would appear for not very long. As for the USB thing; PS/2 is superior to USB. Also, it probably didn't help that Alps had been phasing out their switches for a while at the time :p .
I thought the old logo AT101 had Salmon Alps?The Alps-made ones did, the Silitek-made ones don't. Easily distinguishable by FCC ID (GYI v GYU).
I have never seen an AT101 with salmon Alps (nor an AEK2 for that matter) although I have heard that they exist.They sure do, I have a rather broken one in one of my videos here:
I have owned 2 old logo AT101s and both were garbage blacks with ABS key caps.
Im hoping to use the AEKII with Windows 7/8/10 PCs. I have a Griffin iMate coming and also and Adesso GPB to USB converter. Any hiccups with that?
Where did you get that? I managed to get one of those too, and really like it.
I kind of feel like this is a dumb question... But are those Dell QuietKey boards worth keeping? I'm helping clean out an old lab at work and they have 2 or 3 of those that might be tossed...
Edit: Maybe I'll just try them and see how I like them
Where did you get that? I managed to get one of those too, and really like it.
Dude just put it up on eBay and I prompted him to remove a key cap and report the slider color. $55 shipped. :thumb:
Thanks! How does it compare to your NMB RT6856TW in terms of feel and sound? I imagine pretty similar since both are NMB rubber domes? Do you have a preference of the two? My only experience is the RT6656TW, so far.
Just a note. There are RT6656TW and RT6856TW models. I have the RT6856TW and it just came in today.
Judging by the weight the RT6856TW has a steel base plate which is nice. The Dell may not have one as it's noticeably lighter than the IBM 8923 and the NMB RT6856TW.
Im gonna say I like the NMB RT6856TW better than both the Dell Quietkey and the IBM 8923. This is why.
I like the smoother keycaps of the IBM & NMB. They fell better. The NMB RT6856TW being slightly more textured than the IBM 8923...and the Dell being much more textured than both of them.
The IBM KB-8923 feels a bit spongey-er than the Dell RT7D5JTW and the NMB RT6856TW when bottoming out the keys. The NMB and the Dell have very similar tactility in their key depresses. Maybe using the same or similar parts as they are both made by NMB (in Thailand).
So in my limited experience, I would say the NMB fixes what I found slightly annoying on the Dell QuietKey and also has better build quality with the metal base plate.
One more thing the NMB here has a more pronounced curve of the from bottom row to top row looking at the keyboard from the side than either the Dell Quiet Key or the IBM 8923. The Dell has a flatter case than the IBM but the keys have similar mild curvature to the IBM, maybe just a tad less.
Also of note is that the bottom row Control/Alt/Windows/Fn keys are normal concave key caps on the NMB (and IBM) while the dell has convex key caps which match the profile of the space bar. I prefer the normal concave style key caps.
The space bar on the NMB RT6856TW is a bit more squarish on the edge than the Dell...with the IBM 8923 in between. I like the more rounded space bar.
I like the NMB RT6856TW better than both the Dell QuietKey RT7D5JTW and the IBM-8923. But I could use any of them without complaint.
What I like about the NMB RT6856TW over the Dell QuietKey RT7D5JTW...
1. Less rough surface texture on the top of the keys.
2. More curved (rising from bottom row to top row) profile
3. Bottom row keycaps are standard concave instead of the Dell's convex.
4. Weighs more, indicating a metal base plate.
5. Key legends are a bit more contrasty and thus easily read (but the IBM trumps both here)
What I like about the Dell QuietKey RT7D5JTW over the NMB RT6856TW
1. Space bar is more rounded. NMB has a more squarish edge. (with IBM in between)
What I like about both the Dell & the NMB
1. Tactility of the key depress is good (and very similar)
2. Dual colored Pearl & Pebble IBM M style key layout
Hope that helps.
PS- I wonder what the difference is between the RT6656TW and the RT6856TW, maybe the same keyboard but the 66 version ditched the metal base plate to save costs?
Pics of the NMB RT6856TW...
TopShow Image(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn88/EscapeVelo/IMG_0058.jpg)
BottomShow Image(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn88/EscapeVelo/53af52a1-9691-4867-ae9b-71bf7e7b6816.jpg)
The side mounted cable management is pretty unique. I like it.Show Image(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn88/EscapeVelo/IMG_0065_1.jpg)
Pic of the Bright Green SliderShow Image(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn88/EscapeVelo/IMG_0057.jpg)
Sideview showing curvature & rise of the rows. NMB RT6856TW on Left, IBM KB-8923 on Right.Show Image(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn88/EscapeVelo/IMG_0063_1.jpg)
IdentificationShow Image(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn88/EscapeVelo/IMG_0062.jpg)
Any pics of the metal plate?
Gateway2000 AnyKey series
Gateway2000 AnyKey series
These are desirable and sought after by certain people, if they have the extra programmable keys.
As I remember, they have MX-compatible caps, but the entire board might fetch $25-$35 + shipping on ebay.
Here is a group shot...Show Image(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn88/EscapeVelo/IMG_0081.jpg)
Microsoft doesn't produce keyboards; they order them from actual OEMs. For example, the early MS Natural was made by Key Tronic (e.g., CIGE03786).
Forgot to post this yesterday, but you would have an absolute field day up here in Columbia. So many vintage keyboards...all rubber domes. At least 10-12 old ones at the thrift store near me. Even found an Acer 6511 in Pelion. Very nice!
Holy smokes! An New in Box Apple M0116 just sold for $255!
Forgot to post this yesterday, but you would have an absolute field day up here in Columbia. So many vintage keyboards...all rubber domes. At least 10-12 old ones at the thrift store near me. Even found an Acer 6511 in Pelion. Very nice!
Not many people appreciate a rubber dome anymore.
I dont care for the ones with all the media keys and stuff. Just straight IBM Model M style ANSI.
I think the nicest I've used is probably the Logitech G105 I used to have. The backlighting was nice but then I dove head first into mechanical keyboards and haven't looked back. I personally find that Brown Cherries feel like rubber dome and Topre (which is technically rubber dome) feels overall "meh". It has a nice feel to it, but not worth anywhere near the $200 most of them go for.
I found a KeyTronic KT2000 series brand new in a box at work today.
Let's see if I can keep it heh.Measuring force for key depress using the nickel method. Within 5g below stated weight.
85g KeyTronics LifeTime Series Classic (Made in Mexico)
65g Acer AccuFeel 6311-TW
65g Dell QuietKey RT7D6JTW (Thailand)
60g Dell KB-1421
55g NMB RT6856TW
50g IBM KB-8923
Hi. I use the KeyTronic Classic Lifetime and like it a lot. I did order a KB-8923 because I could not resist :). Anyway, the Keytronic website has a map of the various forces for the keys. Most of the letters have a force of 35g, and the "outside" ones are 40g.
The I-Rocks K10 & K20 seem like really high quality rubber domes, with slider plungers.
I highly recommend the Logitech UltraX, but hard to find in USB if that's an issue. (I have several available for sale cause I had to buy a case of them..LOL)
Yet another BTC rebrand? It's interesting that they still made them with Windows keys.
One of the things I like about the Noppoo Torpre is that it is very stable key depress, it isnt wobbly. The IBM 8923 is bad with this. The NMB RT6866TW and Dell QuietKey RT7D5JTW also have very stable key depresses...as does the Logitech UltraX.
KeyTronic LifeTime Series Classic PS/2 (Made in Mexico)
I found a true KeyTronic Classic AT keyboard as I was moving all my things...
KeyTronic LifeTime Series Classic PS/2 (Made in Mexico)
I found a true KeyTronic Classic AT keyboard as I was moving all my things...Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/oO1pApl.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Ua1eZeg.jpg)
I had to clean it up a bit, I haven't even tested it yet, I know I have some AT-PS/2 adapter somewhere around here, but everything is still in boxes and I have to dig through a lot to find one. I'm sure the keyboard works 100%
I'll follow up when I find an adapter here... somewhere...
I just found this keyboard called the Windy Vanguard v101... It appears to have NMB rubber domes and in a color I have never seen before. Dark green. Seems to only be available overseas but I wonder if we got these dark green domes state side many in a re-branded version or something. idk something interesting I might have to try out. Keyboard comes in some crazy colors too.
http://mitateda.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-36.html
(I'll embed some pics later)
I'd like to add my two nominations for excellent RD boards:
- The HP C3758 / C3758A. Here's a recent GH thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48699) on them. Built by Key Tronic but designed by HP, their full-travel, tactile keys feel as close to a Topre as any non-Topre I've used. New ones can still be found for $20–25. It's a lot of KB for so little dough.
- One of the Lexmark-made "quiet" IBM Model M's (p/n's 70G8638, 71G4643, 71G4644). They're often overlooked because of the inevitable comparison to their great buckling-spring counterparts. But they're still Model M's, and many feel they're the best RDs ever made.
Sorry to post to Ye Olde Thread, but a NIB Dell KB-1421 came in at the community recycling depot where I volunteer, and I managed to get it. (They know I'm the resident KB maniac and take pity on me.) I really like it!You have a BTC, right? How do they hold up to that? :)
What you notice right away is how compact it is—you won't find a thinner bezel on any board. And yet there's a heft to it, and the case is solid, with no flex. It looks and feels well-made, not cheap at all.
This is indeed a dome board, not a membrane (interior photo here (http://utensilia.tk/urzadzenia/dell_kb1421/6.jpg), courtesy of this Italian reviewer (http://utensilia.tk/txt/urzadzenia_en/dell_kb1421.htm)). I've found there are two kinds of RD boards: Those where you can really feel the domes, and those where you can't (usually because the domes are smaller). This falls into the 2nd category. But while it may not give you Topre-style thocky feedback, I think it's faster and more responsive as a result.
To me, it feels like a shorter-throw version of Cherry MX Reds. Just as smooth, with a decently satisfying "tick" when you bottom out, and no rattle or mushiness. Of course it won't last as long as an MX board—but considering you can get them new for around $15, it's hard to complain.
Alright, anyone mind helping me ID a keyboard I found a few weeks back? It's a Honeywell model no. "E03601ELHW-C". It's a full sized board, uses DIN5 connector, and is some weird ANSI/ISO mix where the enter is ANSI and the \| key is one half of where a regular ANSI backspace would be. I've never tried any high quality rubber-domes before, but I'm guessing that these would make the cut. They're extremely crisp and stiff, and the legends use a really nice font, with really nice geometrical, round letters. The windows logo is 98, I'll put some pictures up tomorrow. If I had to compare topre to a rubber dome, this would be the board I'd use in comparison.
Alright, anyone mind helping me ID a keyboard I found a few weeks back? It's a Honeywell model no. "E03601ELHW-C". It's a full sized board, uses DIN5 connector, and is some weird ANSI/ISO mix where the enter is ANSI and the \| key is one half of where a regular ANSI backspace would be. I've never tried any high quality rubber-domes before, but I'm guessing that these would make the cut. They're extremely crisp and stiff, and the legends use a really nice font, with really nice geometrical, round letters. The windows logo is 98, I'll put some pictures up tomorrow. If I had to compare topre to a rubber dome, this would be the board I'd use in comparison.Got the FCC ID for it? Pic of course would help too.
Sorry for the delay, here's some pics. Apologies for the qualityLast pic says it all--Keytronic Corp. :thumb: These are frequently compared with Topre. I have two of them including an original one I bought back in the mid 1990s. Congrats on finding a great board!
Sorry for the delay, here's some pics. Apologies for the qualityLast pic says it all--Keytronic Corp. :thumb: These are frequently compared with Topre. I have two of them including an original one I bought back in the mid 1990s. Congrats on finding a great board!
Sorry for the delay, here's some pics. Apologies for the qualityLast pic says it all--Keytronic Corp. :thumb: These are frequently compared with Topre. I have two of them including an original one I bought back in the mid 1990s. Congrats on finding a great board!
Wait, I can just buy some old Vintage keyboard instead of a Topre?Well, kinda. They're no Topre I'm sure (I've never felt a Topre yet), but bang for buck they're probably in the same range since a Topre costs almost 10x the Keytronics, even when both are brand new.
Thanks Obama!
Cheers! Found it on the side of the road along with some more junk, a shame that it wasn't alps but this is still quite nice too!That's an awesome save! Keytronic is still in business and those boards have a lifetime warranty, so you scored a great board for life!
Wait, I can just buy some old Vintage keyboard instead of a Topre?Well, kinda. They're no Topre I'm sure (I've never felt a Topre yet), but bang for buck they're probably in the same range since a Topre costs almost 10x the Keytronics, even when both are brand new.
Thanks Obama!Cheers! Found it on the side of the road along with some more junk, a shame that it wasn't alps but this is still quite nice too!That's an awesome save! Keytronic is still in business and those boards have a lifetime warranty, so you scored a great board for life!
In comparison with Topre, Topre boards have much lighter actuation, I would say that the actuation point is slightly higher on the Keytronic than Topre, and there's slightly more keycap wobble on the Keytronic than topre. Overall, Topre provides much smoother typing experience as the high actuation point and force of the Keytronic can prove quite jarring.That's interesting that you mention lighter actuation as I find Keytronics much lighter than an M, probably on par with stock Cherry blues. On the keycap wobble, it seems to vary as my original board has a lot more than the 'newer' one I have.
Tbh I'm stunned people are praising Key Tronic so much XD . I've had over a dozen and they were all "slightly above average" at best. I've had MANY rubber dome keyboards that were so much better they left it trampled in the dirt pretty much.You've seen a lot of them too! Which models stand out as much better? I'd be curious to try some of them.
You've seen a lot of them too! Which models stand out as much better? I'd be curious to try some of them.I'd have to rummage through my box of dome with slider boards back home to find out all of them, but from my recollection especially BTC and Monterey dome with slider stood out, they are really good. However, also NMB dome with slider, Olivetti rubber domes, and Bloomberg miniature domes were definitely better. Fujitsu Peerless would've been better if they used better stabilisers. Fujitsu dome with slider is mushy, but still better than Key Tronic. Even Key Tronic dome with slider was better than Key Tronic rubber domes, as I recall.
Interesting. How do I know if my Keytronics are just dome or dome and slider?You've seen a lot of them too! Which models stand out as much better? I'd be curious to try some of them.I'd have to rummage through my box of dome with slider boards back home to find out all of them, but from my recollection especially BTC and Monterey dome with slider stood out, they are really good. However, also NMB dome with slider, Olivetti rubber domes, and Bloomberg miniature domes were definitely better. Fujitsu Peerless would've been better if they used better stabilisers. Fujitsu dome with slider is mushy, but still better than Key Tronic. Even Key Tronic dome with slider was better than Key Tronic rubber domes, as I recall.
Pull off a cap. If you see a slider, it's dome with slider ;) .Interesting. How do I know if my Keytronics are just dome or dome and slider?You've seen a lot of them too! Which models stand out as much better? I'd be curious to try some of them.I'd have to rummage through my box of dome with slider boards back home to find out all of them, but from my recollection especially BTC and Monterey dome with slider stood out, they are really good. However, also NMB dome with slider, Olivetti rubber domes, and Bloomberg miniature domes were definitely better. Fujitsu Peerless would've been better if they used better stabilisers. Fujitsu dome with slider is mushy, but still better than Key Tronic. Even Key Tronic dome with slider was better than Key Tronic rubber domes, as I recall.
I'll have to do that when I'm near them next and have my keycap puller with me.Pull off a cap. If you see a slider, it's dome with slider ;) .Interesting. How do I know if my Keytronics are just dome or dome and slider?You've seen a lot of them too! Which models stand out as much better? I'd be curious to try some of them.I'd have to rummage through my box of dome with slider boards back home to find out all of them, but from my recollection especially BTC and Monterey dome with slider stood out, they are really good. However, also NMB dome with slider, Olivetti rubber domes, and Bloomberg miniature domes were definitely better. Fujitsu Peerless would've been better if they used better stabilisers. Fujitsu dome with slider is mushy, but still better than Key Tronic. Even Key Tronic dome with slider was better than Key Tronic rubber domes, as I recall.
KT mount is quite easy to recognise, too, it's like a little beam that's grabbed by two prongs in the keycap. You'll recognise them; they look a lot like their foam and foil switches.
They're extremely common. I've run into dozens of MS Naturals at the recycling centre, but I've never seen a dome with slider model before Oo . Let alone with what appears to be Key Tronic mount.So the first model of the Natural's were actually made by Key Tronic, hence the sliders. Apparently Key Tronic made some of the best rubber domes.
I got one in the 1990s and tried to use it a couple of times but it was just too unnatural for me. Part of my problem is that I use "other" keyboards too and I get disoriented going back and forth.That was my problem as well. Plus, my 2-fingered typing style at the time had me 'reaching over' too much for the keys at 90 degree angles. I probably would like it a lot more now.
From buying and selling a few of these on ebay I know that the originals with "inverted-T" arrows are much more desirable than the "+" layout that came later. There is also a Dell-re-branded variant which is no different from its MS contemporary.
I got one in the 1990s and tried to use it a couple of times but it was just too unnatural for me. Part of my problem is that I use "other" keyboards too and I get disoriented going back and forth.That's interesting about the Dell rebranding. Did they use the Key Tronic mount with sliders as well?
From buying and selling a few of these on ebay I know that the originals with "inverted-T" arrows are much more desirable than the "+" layout that came later. There is also a Dell-re-branded variant which is no different from its MS contemporary.
That's interesting about the Dell rebranding. Did they use the Key Tronic mount with sliders as well?
Sorry to post to Ye Olde Thread, but a NIB Dell KB-1421 came in at the community recycling depot where I volunteer... I really like it!
You have a BTC, right? How do they hold up to that? :)
I miss EscapeVelocity :(
his keyboard spree was among the best of 2015.
This Northgate Omnikey 101 brand new in box sold for $75 shipped 30 days ago!... How did I miss this?
I'd like to add my two nominations for excellent RD boards:
- The HP C3758 / C3758A. Here's a recent GH thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48699) on them. Built by Key Tronic but designed by HP, their full-travel, tactile keys feel as close to a Topre as any non-Topre I've used. New ones can still be found for $20–25. It's a lot of KB for so little dough.
BTW, EscapeVelocity, while we really appreciate your starting this interesting topic, do you realize how hard it is to find details about particular boards—from a search engine, GH's Search box, or using Find on the page itself—with extensive KB-list signatures like yours peppering the site? I'm sure we'll all quite impressed with how many boards you've managed to accumulate, but how often do you think we need to be reminded?
- One of the Lexmark-made "quiet" IBM Model M's (p/n's 70G8638, 71G4643, 71G4644). They're often overlooked because of the inevitable comparison to their great buckling-spring counterparts. But they're still Model M's, and many feel they're the best RDs ever made.