geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: mszy52 on Mon, 02 November 2015, 17:12:46
-
I have been using an 80% E-3lue k727 Kailh switch board for a couple months and I decided it was time to upgrade.
I don't care for led's much but since the Corsair Strafe is such a cheap board at $110 it has had my eye for white a while being a 100% board and also Cherry mx Browns
I like having a num pad but some of the 60% boards i see on r/mechanicalkeyboards has made me have this vision of making a custom board. Also the price of this may be around $150-$170 depending on how much I would customize
I don't know which to get because both have pros and cons but i would like to hear people's stories with their different types of boards and how they feel about both.
-
Personally, I don't think I could ever go back to 100 percent unless a numpad was an absolute must. The desk space I've gained and the comfort and flexibility of the 60 percent has been extremely helpful, I use it from everything to programming and playing CS:GO
-
I love my fullsize model M, but I rarely use the numpad. Honestly, I find it easier to use the number row instead of moving my hand over to the numpad. I enjoy more the ergonomics of my 60% as the mouse is much closer to my hand while typing. That being said, I still switch back and forth from 60% to 100% ;D . I think it depends on your usage. For me I only about 5% of what I type is in the form of numbers, the vast majority of what I type are letters. Probably best to have one of each ;)
-
Personally, I don't think I could ever go back to 100 percent unless a numpad was an absolute must. The desk space I've gained and the comfort and flexibility of the 60 percent has been extremely helpful, I use it from everything to programming and playing CS:GO
+1
-
I pretty much only use 60's these days. I have some TKL and full boards, but I just don't like moving my hands so much. The layout on my Poker X's is soooo perfect for me. Pretty much keep my fingers on/near the home row for everything. When I have a lot of "arrowing" to do, a quick fn+space bar locks the bottom right modifiers to arrows. Been loving it a long time, don't see any change on the horizon.
-
I am using a GON Nerd60 that I have already posted somewhere else and I do not want to spam this with it.
Using a 60% has some limitations, but using some resources like space-Fn it is totally possible to avoid the use of full size keyboards, having similar if not better productivity and ergonomics. For the last, in particular, I think 60s are much better, use less space and allow you to even carry them if you need it.
-
Personally, I don't think I could ever go back to 100 percent unless a numpad was an absolute must. The desk space I've gained and the comfort and flexibility of the 60 percent has been extremely helpful, I use it from everything to programming and playing CS:GO
I play csgo as well and i was thinking that with the 60% it would be fine to work without the numpad for switching weapons and such but do you ever miss having arrow keys?
-
I pretty much only use 60's these days. I have some TKL and full boards, but I just don't like moving my hands so much. The layout on my Poker X's is soooo perfect for me. Pretty much keep my fingers on/near the home row for everything. When I have a lot of "arrowing" to do, a quick fn+space bar locks the bottom right modifiers to arrows. Been loving it a long time, don't see any change on the horizon.
I was unaware that there was a function that would allow you to use arrow keys. Is this on all 60%'s that youve used or just the Pok3r boards
-
All 60s have alternate ways to access the keys that are not directly mapped on the first layer of the board. This is mapped using the hardware.
You should check space-Fn concept that uses a software alternative to easily access and program where you want to have that second layer.
-
I pretty much only use 60's these days. I have some TKL and full boards, but I just don't like moving my hands so much. The layout on my Poker X's is soooo perfect for me. Pretty much keep my fingers on/near the home row for everything. When I have a lot of "arrowing" to do, a quick fn+space bar locks the bottom right modifiers to arrows. Been loving it a long time, don't see any change on the horizon.
I was unaware that there was a function that would allow you to use arrow keys. Is this on all 60%'s that youve used or just the Pok3r boards
Mine are the original Pokers (1). Not sure if it's in the 2 or 3. Of course, any of the programmable 60's like GON, Sprit, etc can be set to work that way.
-
I think I may have left the 100% boards behind for good. Now I use only TKL and 60%, and I prefer 60% mainly because of the symmetry but also because of the small size.
-
I pretty much only use 60's these days. I have some TKL and full boards, but I just don't like moving my hands so much. The layout on my Poker X's is soooo perfect for me. Pretty much keep my fingers on/near the home row for everything. When I have a lot of "arrowing" to do, a quick fn+space bar locks the bottom right modifiers to arrows. Been loving it a long time, don't see any change on the horizon.
I was unaware that there was a function that would allow you to use arrow keys. Is this on all 60%'s that youve used or just the Pok3r boards
Mine are the original Pokers (1). Not sure if it's in the 2 or 3. Of course, any of the programmable 60's like GON, Sprit, etc can be set to work that way.
Okay i will certainly look into it. waht are GON adn Sprit?
-
All 60s have alternate ways to access the keys that are not directly mapped on the first layer of the board. This is mapped using the hardware.
You should check space-Fn concept that uses a software alternative to easily access and program where you want to have that second layer.
I knew that smaller boards had second layers but i only thought it was on 40%'s. can you use other functions to access buttons like delete or insert?
-
I do a lot of numbers, and I can't go tlk or 60%. Even laptop layouts have me fumbling around.
I even have an M in a carrying case in case I'm going to need it for numbers with the laptop. If I need numbers, it has to have the num pad.
-
I pretty much only use 60's these days. I have some TKL and full boards, but I just don't like moving my hands so much. The layout on my Poker X's is soooo perfect for me. Pretty much keep my fingers on/near the home row for everything. When I have a lot of "arrowing" to do, a quick fn+space bar locks the bottom right modifiers to arrows. Been loving it a long time, don't see any change on the horizon.
I was unaware that there was a function that would allow you to use arrow keys. Is this on all 60%'s that youve used or just the Pok3r boards
Mine are the original Pokers (1). Not sure if it's in the 2 or 3. Of course, any of the programmable 60's like GON, Sprit, etc can be set to work that way.
Okay i will certainly look into it. waht are GON adn Sprit?
Those are the different PCB options out there. Most custom 60% boards are fitted with a Sprit FaceW pcb or a Gon nerd60 pcb they are like brand names and have there own software features etc.
-
All 60s have alternate ways to access the keys that are not directly mapped on the first layer of the board. This is mapped using the hardware.
You should check space-Fn concept that uses a software alternative to easily access and program where you want to have that second layer.
I knew that smaller boards had second layers but i only thought it was on 40%'s. can you use other functions to access buttons like delete or insert?
All sixties I know have it, but not all of them are fully programmable, you should check the model you prefer before to get it. There are always a lot of information on most of them. Besides it, there are some software alternatives, if you are in windows I strongly suggest you to give TouchCursor a try, it could be use even in laptop or full size keyboards, you can check if you can make the transition even without an actual 60%.
-
I do a lot of numbers, and I can't go tlk or 60%. Even laptop layouts have me fumbling around.
I even have an M in a carrying case in case I'm going to need it for numbers with the laptop. If I need numbers, it has to have the num pad.
What do you do that requires "lots of numbers"
-
All 60s have alternate ways to access the keys that are not directly mapped on the first layer of the board. This is mapped using the hardware.
You should check space-Fn concept that uses a software alternative to easily access and program where you want to have that second layer.
I knew that smaller boards had second layers but i only thought it was on 40%'s. can you use other functions to access buttons like delete or insert?
All sixties I know have it, but not all of them are fully programmable, you should check the model you prefer before to get it. There are always a lot of information on most of them. Besides it, there are some software alternatives, if you are in windows I strongly suggest you to give TouchCursor a try, it could be use even in laptop or full size keyboards, you can check if you can make the transition even without an actual 60%.
Awesome ill try that right now to see if it works on my 80%
-
All 60s have alternate ways to access the keys that are not directly mapped on the first layer of the board. This is mapped using the hardware.
You should check space-Fn concept that uses a software alternative to easily access and program where you want to have that second layer.
I knew that smaller boards had second layers but i only thought it was on 40%'s. can you use other functions to access buttons like delete or insert?
All sixties I know have it, but not all of them are fully programmable, you should check the model you prefer before to get it. There are always a lot of information on most of them. Besides it, there are some software alternatives, if you are in windows I strongly suggest you to give TouchCursor a try, it could be use even in laptop or full size keyboards, you can check if you can make the transition even without an actual 60%.
Awesome ill try that right now to see if it works on my 80%
http://touchcursor.sourceforge.net/ is this the correct website
-
All 60s have alternate ways to access the keys that are not directly mapped on the first layer of the board. This is mapped using the hardware.
You should check space-Fn concept that uses a software alternative to easily access and program where you want to have that second layer.
I knew that smaller boards had second layers but i only thought it was on 40%'s. can you use other functions to access buttons like delete or insert?
All sixties I know have it, but not all of them are fully programmable, you should check the model you prefer before to get it. There are always a lot of information on most of them. Besides it, there are some software alternatives, if you are in windows I strongly suggest you to give TouchCursor a try, it could be use even in laptop or full size keyboards, you can check if you can make the transition even without an actual 60%.
Awesome ill try that right now to see if it works on my 80%
http://touchcursor.sourceforge.net/ (http://touchcursor.sourceforge.net/) is this the correct website
That's it.
-
All 60s have alternate ways to access the keys that are not directly mapped on the first layer of the board. This is mapped using the hardware.
You should check space-Fn concept that uses a software alternative to easily access and program where you want to have that second layer.
I knew that smaller boards had second layers but i only thought it was on 40%'s. can you use other functions to access buttons like delete or insert?
All sixties I know have it, but not all of them are fully programmable, you should check the model you prefer before to get it. There are always a lot of information on most of them. Besides it, there are some software alternatives, if you are in windows I strongly suggest you to give TouchCursor a try, it could be use even in laptop or full size keyboards, you can check if you can make the transition even without an actual 60%.
Awesome ill try that right now to see if it works on my 80%
http://touchcursor.sourceforge.net/ (http://touchcursor.sourceforge.net/) is this the correct website
That's it.
Wow i just pulled up a word doc and typed in random things to try out the "arrow keys" and it works really well. I wouldent expect that. Thanks you have helped persuade me into the ways of 60% boards.
-
All 60s have alternate ways to access the keys that are not directly mapped on the first layer of the board. This is mapped using the hardware.
You should check space-Fn concept that uses a software alternative to easily access and program where you want to have that second layer.
I knew that smaller boards had second layers but i only thought it was on 40%'s. can you use other functions to access buttons like delete or insert?
All sixties I know have it, but not all of them are fully programmable, you should check the model you prefer before to get it. There are always a lot of information on most of them. Besides it, there are some software alternatives, if you are in windows I strongly suggest you to give TouchCursor a try, it could be use even in laptop or full size keyboards, you can check if you can make the transition even without an actual 60%.
Awesome ill try that right now to see if it works on my 80%
http://touchcursor.sourceforge.net/ (http://touchcursor.sourceforge.net/) is this the correct website
That's it.
Wow i just pulled up a word doc and typed in random things to try out the "arrow keys" and it works really well. I wouldent expect that. Thanks you have helped persuade me into the ways of 60% boards.
I found it very effective even in my laptop keyboard, and in my GON it won the second layer that is in the hardware by far, it is always easier to use the space bar as FN key than the original one.
I am glad it worked for you as well.
-
At home I only need a 60% size for chatting and gaming.
At work I need almost every key on a 100% as I'm developing software with Visual Studio, which loves the function row and arrow keys. I also need the numpad for **** like my employer ID and issue/bug ticket IDs etc
However I think I will try and move to a TKL plus a separate numpad, so I can have my keyboard more comfortably in front of me, and have the numpad either on the left, or on the right side of my mouse.
-
At home I only need a 60% size for chatting and gaming.
At work I need almost every key on a 100% as I'm developing software with Visual Studio, which loves the function row and arrow keys. I also need the numpad for **** like my employer ID and issue/bug ticket IDs etc
However I think I will try and move to a TKL plus a separate numpad, so I can have my keyboard more comfortably in front of me, and have the numpad either on the left, or on the right side of my mouse.
ID's in your case relate to me as well. At work i always have to plug in numbers all the time and if they get large its very annoying to be typing on a format that is 1-9 like on TKL boards
-
IMHO depends if you want your mouse farther away
60% - compact size for travellng but lack of functions keys and arrow keys
87% - preferred this because its compact while maintaning full functionality
100% - too big, doesnt really use numbpad.
-
IMHO depends if you want your mouse farther away
60% - compact size for travellng but lack of functions keys and arrow keys
87% - preferred this because its compact while maintaning full functionality
100% - too big, doesnt really use numbpad.
by 87% do you mean a regular TKL board?
-
With as much as type numbers at work, I wouldn't be near as efficient w/o a numpad. With as much as I am in excel, I need the 6 pack and arrow keys. Being able to touch type and 10-key helps.
So, I say use what works best for you.
-
With as much as type numbers at work, I wouldn't be near as efficient w/o a numpad. With as much as I am in excel, I need the 6 pack and arrow keys. Being able to touch type and 10-key helps.
So, I say use what works best for you.
With how much you use a number pad have you ever thought about using an exterior num pad?
-
I wrote about 40% boards on Reddit and in my review of the GoN MobiK
I primarily use 60%
I prefer more finger movement than hand movement so more compact boards seem to be the best for me
-
I wrote about 40% boards on Reddit and in my review of the GoN MobiK
I primarily use 60%
I prefer more finger movement than hand movement so more compact boards seem to be the best for me
would you tell me a little about your experiance of the 40%?
-
I've yet to try a 60% so can't comment. 75% (laptop) and full size boards are what I'm normally using. I'll probably pick up a TKL at some point but a 60% board doesn't really have much appeal to me. I tend to be fine with hand movement (and somewhat prefer hand movement over finger movement). I'm still waiting for the GH-122 board to get going, dammit!
I know many like to hook up 60% boards to their laptops but I normally just use my laptop's keyboard and am fine. For tablets, eh. Maybe I'd get a 60% if I ever get a Surface but that's probably a ways off. I'll use my phone.
-
I wrote about 40% boards on Reddit and in my review of the GoN MobiK
I primarily use 60%
I prefer more finger movement than hand movement so more compact boards seem to be the best for me
would you tell me a little about your experiance of the 40%?
Basically it's really good as a mobile board but not very effective for regular use.
-
I wrote about 40% boards on Reddit and in my review of the GoN MobiK
I primarily use 60%
I prefer more finger movement than hand movement so more compact boards seem to be the best for me
would you tell me a little about your experiance of the 40%?
Basically it's really good as a mobile board but not very effective for regular use.
I've always liked the concept of a portable board but how often do you really get around to using it out of the house?
-
I wrote about 40% boards on Reddit and in my review of the GoN MobiK
I primarily use 60%
I prefer more finger movement than hand movement so more compact boards seem to be the best for me
would you tell me a little about your experiance of the 40%?
Basically it's really good as a mobile board but not very effective for regular use.
I've always liked the concept of a portable board but how often do you really get around to using it out of the house?
Frankly for school, every day.
Constant use. I use it with Bluetooth with my phone (too cheap to get a tablet) and type my notes like that.
-
I wrote about 40% boards on Reddit and in my review of the GoN MobiK
I primarily use 60%
I prefer more finger movement than hand movement so more compact boards seem to be the best for me
would you tell me a little about your experiance of the 40%?
Basically it's really good as a mobile board but not very effective for regular use.
I've always liked the concept of a portable board but how often do you really get around to using it out of the house?
Frankly for school, every day.
Constant use. I use it with Bluetooth with my phone (too cheap to get a tablet) and type my notes like that.
I was thinking about using one for school and work but really i dont see myself using it all that much in school and i wouldent neccesarily like my coworkers touching it all the time
-
I wrote about 40% boards on Reddit and in my review of the GoN MobiK
I primarily use 60%
I prefer more finger movement than hand movement so more compact boards seem to be the best for me
would you tell me a little about your experiance of the 40%?
Basically it's really good as a mobile board but not very effective for regular use.
I've always liked the concept of a portable board but how often do you really get around to using it out of the house?
Frankly for school, every day.
Constant use. I use it with Bluetooth with my phone (too cheap to get a tablet) and type my notes like that.
I was thinking about using one for school and work but really i dont see myself using it all that much in school and i wouldent neccesarily like my coworkers touching it all the time
I dislike handwriting all my notes.
Easy to lose and hard to share.
I work right after school and we bring our own peripherals (IT work) so I bring my MobiK with me right after.
-
I went from a full size rubber dome to a TKL mech and I haven't missed my numpad once. I just got myself a V60, but it's still in the mail, so I can't speak on that yet. I just love the look of the 60% boards :thumb:
-
I went from a full size rubber dome to a TKL mech and I haven't missed my numpad once. I just got myself a V60, but it's still in the mail, so I can't speak on that yet. I just love the look of the 60% boards :thumb:
i switched from full size to tkl to 60 %. Guess it's time to try a 40% ...
-
I went from a full size rubber dome to a TKL mech and I haven't missed my numpad once. I just got myself a V60, but it's still in the mail, so I can't speak on that yet. I just love the look of the 60% boards :thumb:
i switched from full size to tkl to 60 %. Guess it's time to try a 40% ...
40s seem awesome!! I'd love to try one!
-
Coming from a TKL / 85% board to a 60% takes a little getting used to and it's not quite as efficient for some tasks (like heavy text editing using arrows and edit keys a lot), but it's definitely acceptable and the ergonomic and desk space gains are nice. I'd never switch back to 100% again. The numpad really is useless to me.
I'm probably still most efficient with a TKL, but I use 60% and smaller boards pretty much exclusively nowadays (at work where I do software development and at home). I have a DIY custom ergonomic 48 key board and another DIY 40 key that I use, alongside my GoN Nerd60 and KBT Pure.
I have to say that 40% layouts are quite a personal thing. There is no current 40% board available that I find as easy to use as my 60% boards or my own layout 40%. The closest is the JD45, but even there I have my personal dislikes of certain aspects of it. I like split spacebar designs since it allows you to use each thumb for different tasks. On my 40% I use the left thumb for Fn, so I get what ideus is saying about SpaceFn and using your thumb for Fn really makes sense.
-
I think I'd have to agree with what others have said so far - after having gone below 100% boards, I don't think I could ever go back. I'm trying to go smaller (40% maybe), but we'll see!
The desk space and ergonomics have a huge thing to do with it for me. I love how everything is arranged now as well. The only reason for a 100% board is working with numbers to me. And honestly, depending on the function layer for the arrows, 60% boards can be very good for text editing. It's now second nature to hit FN + pl.; on my HHKB for the arrows. I would PREFER it on my other 60% board instead of Caps Lock (DIP switched to FN) + WASD. But regardless, you get used to it is the thing.
I used to sell phones during college while working at a large electronic retailer that didn't always have the Best deals (*wink*). People wouldn't buy a phone because of it's keyboard. Even though you can change the keyboards on phones (I know, I know, ewww touch screens). But I guess my point is that you can make it whatever you want, and you will get used to it and probably love it. If not, change it to how you want it. Obviously, via a function layer, but it can be done.
That's just my 2 cents. :)
-
I think I may have left the 100% boards behind for good. Now I use only TKL and 60%, and I prefer 60% mainly because of the symmetry but also because of the small size.
+1 definitely prefer the symmetry and I will probably be leaving full size behind, even TKL looks a bit out of proportion to me now.
-
I went from a full size rubber dome to a TKL mech and I haven't missed my numpad once. I just got myself a V60, but it's still in the mail, so I can't speak on that yet. I just love the look of the 60% boards :thumb:
i switched from full size to tkl to 60 %. Guess it's time to try a 40% ...
40s seem awesome!! I'd love to try one!
i've ordered a planck directly from olkb and the case from massdrop. Case should arrive early 2016 if i'm not mistaken. This will be interesting!
-
I first started out with 100%, then I bought a TKL. Then I bought a Poker II. Decided the 60% wasn't the greatest layout for my work (coding). So I sold the poker II and used my TKL. However, I kept having that nagging feeling in the back of my mind that I didn't give the Poker II enough time to "break in." I really missed the great ergonomics of the poker II so I decided to buy another Poker II with clears. I'm not sure what was different that time around but I discovered that I really enjoyed the 60% form factor and adjusted a lot quicker to the function layer. I use the arrow keys a fair bit, so that part was painfully slow to adjust, but I stuck with it. I'm still more comfortable on a TKL at work, however at home I have a 60% sprit board and a hhkb. I'm already planning my next 60% build and love all the customizable options out there for a 60%!
If you stick it out you'll get used to the layout, however I would say that the learning curve for all 60% boards is moderate. You really have to make the commitment to stick with it, or at the very least give it a couple months of solid use before you decide. :thumb:
-
I ended up taking the plunge into the mechanical keyboards with 2 60% boards and I love them. But at work, I have a Novatouch that I just can't go without.
-
I first started out with 100%, then I bought a TKL. Then I bought a Poker II. Decided the 60% wasn't the greatest layout for my work (coding). So I sold the poker II and used my TKL. However, I kept having that nagging feeling in the back of my mind that I didn't give the Poker II enough time to "break in." I really missed the great ergonomics of the poker II so I decided to buy another Poker II with clears. I'm not sure what was different that time around but I discovered that I really enjoyed the 60% form factor and adjusted a lot quicker to the function layer. I use the arrow keys a fair bit, so that part was painfully slow to adjust, but I stuck with it. I'm still more comfortable on a TKL at work, however at home I have a 60% sprit board and a hhkb. I'm already planning my next 60% build and love all the customizable options out there for a 60%!
If you stick it out you'll get used to the layout, however I would say that the learning curve for all 60% boards is moderate. You really have to make the commitment to stick with it, or at the very least give it a couple months of solid use before you decide. :thumb:
yep, it takes some time but to me it's really worth it cuz in the end i don't have to move my hands as much. Plus: Your hand is closer to the mouse which is a plus. Having more desk space is also nice. especially if you live in a small city apartment and therefore only have a small desk.
-
I first started out with 100%, then I bought a TKL. Then I bought a Poker II. Decided the 60% wasn't the greatest layout for my work (coding). So I sold the poker II and used my TKL. However, I kept having that nagging feeling in the back of my mind that I didn't give the Poker II enough time to "break in." I really missed the great ergonomics of the poker II so I decided to buy another Poker II with clears. I'm not sure what was different that time around but I discovered that I really enjoyed the 60% form factor and adjusted a lot quicker to the function layer. I use the arrow keys a fair bit, so that part was painfully slow to adjust, but I stuck with it. I'm still more comfortable on a TKL at work, however at home I have a 60% sprit board and a hhkb. I'm already planning my next 60% build and love all the customizable options out there for a 60%!
If you stick it out you'll get used to the layout, however I would say that the learning curve for all 60% boards is moderate. You really have to make the commitment to stick with it, or at the very least give it a couple months of solid use before you decide. :thumb:
Your post helps me with what I've been wondering. Going to a TKL didn't take any effort but the 60% wasn't so easy. It has just felt cramped to me. But I have been going back and forth -- purely by choice. I guess I should stick it out. Two months was what worked in your experience?
I really want to give it the best chance since I like the switches better on my 60%.
Once you got used to it, were there any issues if you had to go back to a larger format?
-
for me...
60% for mobile and most likely for test new cute keycaps since the board is cute only 60% when put cute keycaps its become more cuter ;D
100% i dont use it anymore since i got my TKL board.. but yeah 100% is 100% board you can do 100% with this board..
-
60%, 100% of the time ;D
-
Most of what I came to say has already been said but heres another vote for 60%
Ever since I have gotten my 60% boards, I hardly use my 100% board anymore.
-
I do a lot of numbers, and I can't go tlk or 60%. Even laptop layouts have me fumbling around.
I even have an M in a carrying case in case I'm going to need it for numbers with the laptop. If I need numbers, it has to have the num pad.
What do you do that requires "lots of numbers"
At lot of accounting and spreadsheets. Stuff that is almost exclusively numbers. I can fly on the numpad vs the main area except that I'm wondering how fast I would be if I 'home rowed' my fingers on the ten keys. I might be much, much faster that way as almost each finger would be directly above a number.
With as much as type numbers at work, I wouldn't be near as efficient w/o a numpad. With as much as I am in excel, I need the 6 pack and arrow keys. Being able to touch type and 10-key helps.
So, I say use what works best for you.
Yep, same here.
At home I only need a 60% size for chatting and gaming.
At work I need almost every key on a 100% as I'm developing software with Visual Studio, which loves the function row and arrow keys. I also need the numpad for **** like my employer ID and issue/bug ticket IDs etc
However I think I will try and move to a TKL plus a separate numpad, so I can have my keyboard more comfortably in front of me, and have the numpad either on the left, or on the right side of my mouse.
I've thought about this too. It would helpful to be able to push the numpad out of the way when it's not needed. But I don't know of a buckling spring separate numpad. I've been eyeing these cherry ones, but I don't think they'll be up to par:
https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/CHERRY-G84-4700-21KEY-KEYPAD-USB-BS/3843303.aspx?pfm=srh
-
I do statistical analysis using R and RStudio, every day, it does not require much time of manual input of numbers as some accounting activities do, but I am planning to review my current second layer configuration in order to allow a number pad to be accessed with the right hand. I am sure it would not be as efficient as an actual number pad, but it may help alleviating the use of the top number row.
-
Has anyone ever made a 60% with a number pad? (Basically a 80% with the navigation and function keys removed)
-
Has anyone ever made a 60% with a number pad? (Basically a 80% with the navigation and function keys removed)
I think I have seen something like this before, I am not sure if it was just a mockup or an actual board, you should make some search, I think it was a sixty layout with three additional columns for the number pad.
-
Has anyone ever made a 60% with a number pad? (Basically a 80% with the navigation and function keys removed)
The monarch comes to mind. There's a gb that is either closed or will be shortly.
-
Most people don't need the numberpad...so many people who are used to using it think they need it but they really don't..this includes people that type some IP addressing...
The only people that need a numberpad are people doing heavy numbers work...spreadsheets, accounting, etc...although if I was in that situation I'd probably just get a dedicated number pad to pull out when I need it..
TKL is so much better, the extra space you get back is tremendous..
Going to 60% from TKL also gives you back space but the gain (which exactly the same amount of space) isn't a big...
-
Has anyone ever made a 60% with a number pad? (Basically a 80% with the navigation and function keys removed)
Sentrant PC's TK78 is in prototype stage, there are a few posts about it on Reddit.
As for the topic, I use 100% at work because I need the Num Pad for entering a lot of number codes all day.
At home, it's gotta be 75%. F keys are very useful in many games I play, and dedicated Home, End, Pg Up and PG DN are desirable to me.
-
Most people don't need the numberpad...so many people who are used to using it think they need it but they really don't..this includes people that type some IP addressing...
The only people that need a numberpad are people doing heavy numbers work...spreadsheets, accounting, etc...although if I was in that situation I'd probably just get a dedicated number pad to pull out when I need it..
TKL is so much better, the extra space you get back is tremendous..
Going to 60% from TKL also gives you back space but the gain (which exactly the same amount of space) isn't a big...
I even use the num pad for IP addresses and phone numbers. It's just much, much faster.
For me, desk space isn't a problem. I could have more space if I wanted--just move stuff around.
-
I'd argue the layouts "inbetween" are much better. One being 75% (~84key) and the other one 90% (full-size that fits in a rack). The thing is, a lot of software depends on using arrows, the nav cluster (6key), sometimes the numpad (10key) or even the odd three keys above the standard nav cluster. Both these layouts have essentially all keys: 84key keyboards usually only miss a dedicated Insert (which is a pity IME), perhaps right-hand-side Super, and a dedicated Pause/ScrollLock; the 90% layout has everything and don't forget the tenkey can be used for navigation too with numlock off.
I obviously prefer split keyboards like my ErgoDox, but that's a completely different form factor, esp. with all these thumb keys. Embedding a tenkey into the staggered layout is easy too.
However, when I don't care about customization and adequate comfort, the "inbetween" layouts do the job alright. For example, when I have to configure some system from scratch or do something in plain Visual Studio, the function keys and arrows come handy.
-
For those needing a dedicated numpad...get a dedicated numpad. When you don't need it, just slide it under your monitor. Much better than having it nailed to the end of your keyboard all the time.
-
For those needing a dedicated numpad...get a dedicated numpad. When you don't need it, just slide it under your monitor. Much better than having it nailed to the end of your keyboard all the time.
That's a nice setup you have there! What are your thoughts between the realforce Topre and the HHKB Topre?
-
For those needing a dedicated numpad...get a dedicated numpad. When you don't need it, just slide it under your monitor. Much better than having it nailed to the end of your keyboard all the time.
That's a nice setup you have there! What are your thoughts between the realforce Topre and the HHKB Topre?
I like them both for different reasons. My 87U variable silent gets most of the use followed by the HHKB, then the 87U 55g. The RF 23U numpad is expensive but absolutely no regrets buying it. When not used, I just slide it forward and my mouse back over.
-
I first started out with 100%, then I bought a TKL. Then I bought a Poker II. Decided the 60% wasn't the greatest layout for my work (coding). So I sold the poker II and used my TKL. However, I kept having that nagging feeling in the back of my mind that I didn't give the Poker II enough time to "break in." I really missed the great ergonomics of the poker II so I decided to buy another Poker II with clears. I'm not sure what was different that time around but I discovered that I really enjoyed the 60% form factor and adjusted a lot quicker to the function layer. I use the arrow keys a fair bit, so that part was painfully slow to adjust, but I stuck with it. I'm still more comfortable on a TKL at work, however at home I have a 60% sprit board and a hhkb. I'm already planning my next 60% build and love all the customizable options out there for a 60%!
If you stick it out you'll get used to the layout, however I would say that the learning curve for all 60% boards is moderate. You really have to make the commitment to stick with it, or at the very least give it a couple months of solid use before you decide. :thumb:
Your post helps me with what I've been wondering. Going to a TKL didn't take any effort but the 60% wasn't so easy. It has just felt cramped to me. But I have been going back and forth -- purely by choice. I guess I should stick it out. Two months was what worked in your experience?
I really want to give it the best chance since I like the switches better on my 60%.
Once you got used to it, were there any issues if you had to go back to a larger format?
2-3 months of exclusive use finally started to pay off for me. The arrow keys are the hardest things to get used to. The stock poker II pbt keycaps are great in that they label the function layer as well, so if I wanted to say adjust the volume on my computer I would just look on my keyboard instead of trying ot refer to the poker II manual.
Ever since I got the HHKB it's yet another new layout to learn, and I've found that my 60% skills have taken a hit since I've been using the HHKB and learning that layout. So, just be mindful that it's best to stick with a specific 60% layout and commit to it. :thumb: Good luck!
Also, in terms of switches, which ones are you liking better? You could always solder them onto your TKL :)
-
As someone who went through school and 1st job using only laptops, 75% layout is king. I do miss the numpad on occasion though.
-
I first started out with 100%, then I bought a TKL. Then I bought a Poker II. Decided the 60% wasn't the greatest layout for my work (coding). So I sold the poker II and used my TKL. However, I kept having that nagging feeling in the back of my mind that I didn't give the Poker II enough time to "break in." I really missed the great ergonomics of the poker II so I decided to buy another Poker II with clears. I'm not sure what was different that time around but I discovered that I really enjoyed the 60% form factor and adjusted a lot quicker to the function layer. I use the arrow keys a fair bit, so that part was painfully slow to adjust, but I stuck with it. I'm still more comfortable on a TKL at work, however at home I have a 60% sprit board and a hhkb. I'm already planning my next 60% build and love all the customizable options out there for a 60%!
If you stick it out you'll get used to the layout, however I would say that the learning curve for all 60% boards is moderate. You really have to make the commitment to stick with it, or at the very least give it a couple months of solid use before you decide. :thumb:
Your post helps me with what I've been wondering. Going to a TKL didn't take any effort but the 60% wasn't so easy. It has just felt cramped to me. But I have been going back and forth -- purely by choice. I guess I should stick it out. Two months was what worked in your experience?
I really want to give it the best chance since I like the switches better on my 60%.
Once you got used to it, were there any issues if you had to go back to a larger format?
2-3 months of exclusive use finally started to pay off for me. The arrow keys are the hardest things to get used to. The stock poker II pbt keycaps are great in that they label the function layer as well, so if I wanted to say adjust the volume on my computer I would just look on my keyboard instead of trying ot refer to the poker II manual.
Ever since I got the HHKB it's yet another new layout to learn, and I've found that my 60% skills have taken a hit since I've been using the HHKB and learning that layout. So, just be mindful that it's best to stick with a specific 60% layout and commit to it. :thumb: Good luck!
Also, in terms of switches, which ones are you liking better? You could always solder them onto your TKL :)
I do not think people should adapt to keyboard layouts; instead, the layout should adapt to the user, I have found the best path to be using a fully programmable keyboard with your preferred layout and software tools that help to access those keys that are not readily available in the first keyboard layer. In my case, my options were a GON Nerd60 that I adapted to my preferred layout and TouchCoursor and AHK that allows me to have the second layer and macros at the exact position I need them. I had found Poker, HHKB and similar keyboards to force you to use the FN key at fixed positions to be the hardest thing to learn, instead, the tools I mentioned allowed you to get the FN keys and second layers exactly where they are the most comfortable for your preferences. I just want to let you know that options exists, however they are not all at the same place, nor there is a single path for everyone. They come at a cost of money and time to put together the best keyboard, with exactly the best switches and caps that fit your needs and preferences better, but that is exactly what this hobby is all about.
-
I do not think people should adapt to keyboard layouts; instead, the layout should adapt to the user, I have found the best path to be using a fully programmable keyboard with your preferred layout and software tools that help to access those keys that are not readily available in the first keyboard layer. In my case, my options were a GON Nerd60 that I adapted to my preferred layout and TouchCoursor and AHK that allows me to have the second layer and macros at the exact position I need them. I had found Poker, HHKB and similar keyboards to force you to use the FN key at fixed positions to be the hardest thing to learn, instead, the tools I mentioned allowed you to get the FN keys and second layers exactly where they are the most comfortable for your preferences. I just want to let you know that options exists, however they are not all at the same place, nor there is a single path for everyone. They come at a cost of money and time to put together the best keyboard, with exactly the best switches and caps that fit your needs and preferences better, but that is exactly what this hobby is all about.
Are you still using TouchCursor and AHK with your programmable board? I was using them with my non-programmable 60% boards and found out I loved using spacefn. Now that I have a programmable 60% though, I have it all in hardware and I'm not using the software any more. I'm not sure I'm ever going to be able to go back to non-programmable boards again.
-
I do not think people should adapt to keyboard layouts; instead, the layout should adapt to the user, I have found the best path to be using a fully programmable keyboard with your preferred layout and software tools that help to access those keys that are not readily available in the first keyboard layer. In my case, my options were a GON Nerd60 that I adapted to my preferred layout and TouchCoursor and AHK that allows me to have the second layer and macros at the exact position I need them. I had found Poker, HHKB and similar keyboards to force you to use the FN key at fixed positions to be the hardest thing to learn, instead, the tools I mentioned allowed you to get the FN keys and second layers exactly where they are the most comfortable for your preferences. I just want to let you know that options exists, however they are not all at the same place, nor there is a single path for everyone. They come at a cost of money and time to put together the best keyboard, with exactly the best switches and caps that fit your needs and preferences better, but that is exactly what this hobby is all about.
Are you still using TouchCursor and AHK with your programmable board? I was using them with my non-programmable 60% boards and found out I loved using spacefn. Now that I have a programmable 60% though, I have it all in hardware and I'm not using the software any more. I'm not sure I'm ever going to be able to go back to non-programmable boards again.
My board is fully programmable and I can do the same in hardware than what I can do with software; but, using the last allow me to get access to the same functions in my lap top keyboard. That is a huge advantage for me, because I have to use the laptop with no keyboard pretty much every day.
-
I am in excel everyday and prefer my GON 60% any day of the week - mapping arrow keys to IJKL and having Fn on where left control would be (and control in HHKB position) is an absolute godsend when navigating spreadsheets. Even more awesome when you have the nav cluster near your arrow cluster as well - I can change worksheets without ever leaving the home row :D
-
@ideus: Your strategy of having a programmable board is excellent. Fortunately for me, I find the HHKB Pro 2 layout to be perfect, so when I am using the HHKB, I don't need any programming or software remapping. However, when I rotate to other boards, I use Karabiner when on a Mac or ATNsoft Key Manager when on a Windows machine. My computers share a keyboard and mouse through a combination of an Iogear hardware KM switch and Synergy software KM switch. Now I mostly use a Windows machine as the primary and linux machines as secondaries. I use the keyboard remapping software to achieve a HHKB layout on other keyboards.
-
@ideus: Your strategy of having a programmable board is excellent. Fortunately for me, I find the HHKB Pro 2 layout to be perfect, so when I am using the HHKB, I don't need any programming or software remapping. However, when I rotate to other boards, I use Karabiner when on a Mac or ATNsoft Key Manager when on a Windows machine. My computers share a keyboard and mouse through a combination of an Iogear hardware KM switch and Synergy software KM switch. Now I mostly use a Windows machine as the primary and linux machines as secondaries. I use the keyboard remapping software to achieve a HHKB layout on other keyboards.
Congratulations on being a satisfied user of the HHKB. I have tried that layout using my GON, but I never got accustomed to the arrows in that position, neither the FN key to the right, I prefer to use my thumbs to activate the second layer of my board, so even with all the evangelism on the HHKB layout, it is not for me.
-
Before I got into MKs, I had a buddy who shared a photo of his 60% and thought I'd hate it [I only had a Ducky Shine 4 at the time]. A month later, I thought it'd be cool to have a MK for work and I was tempted by the v60 Matias Quiet Click on Massdrop. I purchased it because of the word quiet and thought it'd be work appropriate. I now have 3 60%s and 1 100%. I like how little space the 60% takes up, how portable it is, and I think a lot of the cap sets look better on 60%s too lol
-
I might be the minority here. I tried 60% and 75% and I really tried to like it but eventually I find the lack of number pad is just inconvenient.
I use number pad all the time and the 6 pack + arrow key for navigation, also the number pad enter (I hit it with the mouse thumb).
On top of it I use shift + arrow key a lot so having to press FN to access arrow key then on top of it to hold shift for certain function is just getting too tedious.
At work I use 3D software so I have to input coordinates and values for simulation all the time, at home I use number pad for online banking and so on. After all that it's just much easier to have muscle memory for "standard" layout so I can type easily without looking (yes including number pad, and now I use all blank at home).
Not saying 60% is bad but it's definitely not for everyone depend on your usage. As you need to press more and more keys for short cuts then having the FN key just make things more and more complicated.
Figure out what keys you use and find the best compromise. :thumb:
-
You can trace your usage of every caps on 100%keyboard. Personally about 60 caps is enough for my 90% of use, the left 10% can be achieved by fn. I will not go back to 100% keyboards. If I need to type lots of number, I take out my G80-3700.
-
I might be the minority here. I tried 60% and 75% and I really tried to like it but eventually I find the lack of number pad is just inconvenient.
I use number pad all the time and the 6 pack + arrow key for navigation, also the number pad enter (I hit it with the mouse thumb).
On top of it I use shift + arrow key a lot so having to press FN to access arrow key then on top of it to hold shift for certain function is just getting too tedious.
At work I use 3D software so I have to input coordinates and values for simulation all the time, at home I use number pad for online banking and so on. After all that it's just much easier to have muscle memory for "standard" layout so I can type easily without looking (yes including number pad, and now I use all blank at home).
Not saying 60% is bad but it's definitely not for everyone depend on your usage. As you need to press more and more keys for short cuts then having the FN key just make things more and more complicated.
Figure out what keys you use and find the best compromise. :thumb:
It seems that your computing needs and habits have made a full size keyboard a requirement, in other cases, like me, even when using a full size keyboard, 80% of the time I do not use neither the 6 pack, nor the number pad, therefore, only the arrows and function keys are required. That means that I can live with a 60% percent with the proper way to access the less used keys.
In particular, I have found that having the rows at the home row is one of the best setups for most of the activities at your computer, and that makes dedicated arrows unnecessary, I do not use them even when using my laptop keyboard, just because I really do not need them anymore, and using them at the bottom right side of the keyboard is always less efficient to accessing them at the home row while pressing the space bar.
You are one the PC users that take advantage of a full size keyboard; therefore, it is the best size for you.
-
Thing with 60% or smaller boards is, they need to be either spot on or very close to your perfect layout, which is why they work so well for custom or re-programmable keyboards.
-
60%, 100% of the time ;D
I agree with this about 80% of the time
-
I work in accounting and tax prep so at my office desk I use a full-size. We are currently in the process of moving offices to a much bigger place, with bigger offices and desks, so I guess I could get away with a 60% with a numpad but I would rather just keep my V2 full-size as a no-frills workhorse board. I will actually have a 2nd office location at the newest office for generic hardware and software testing as the un-official IT person of the office (I am under 50 and a male, so that automatically means I can fix things according to my office mates) so I am planning on getting a b.87 or a b.face.
That said, I current have a DS4 at home that could probably be cut down to TKL or even 60% so that will probably be done in the future, I'll just have to bribe my wife with more hand bags or spa trips so I can buy another board :)
-
I definitely prefer programmable too.
Especially on the smaller sized boards where key placement becomes much more important.
I'd like to say that the use of programmable keyboards alone isn't entirely sufficient as a board with poor key sizing can still be ineffective for typing regardless of the programmed layers.
-
I work in accounting and tax prep so at my office desk I use a full-size. We are currently in the process of moving offices to a much bigger place, with bigger offices and desks, so I guess I could get away with a 60% with a numpad but I would rather just keep my V2 full-size as a no-frills workhorse board. I will actually have a 2nd office location at the newest office for generic hardware and software testing as the un-official IT person of the office (I am under 50 and a male, so that automatically means I can fix things according to my office mates) so I am planning on getting a b.87 or a b.face.
That said, I current have a DS4 at home that could probably be cut down to TKL or even 60% so that will probably be done in the future, I'll just have to bribe my wife with more hand bags or spa trips so I can buy another board :)
I do a lot of accounting as well so I'm always wanting a 100% board. But I have also considered the move to a tkl and a separate num pad. Let me know how you find it to be. If you're entering as many numbers as I am, you'll find out very quickly what's better.
-
full sized keyboards are the death of me
I MUCH prefer a 60% for typing and a tkl for gaming.
-
I work in accounting and tax prep so at my office desk I use a full-size. We are currently in the process of moving offices to a much bigger place, with bigger offices and desks, so I guess I could get away with a 60% with a numpad but I would rather just keep my V2 full-size as a no-frills workhorse board. I will actually have a 2nd office location at the newest office for generic hardware and software testing as the un-official IT person of the office (I am under 50 and a male, so that automatically means I can fix things according to my office mates) so I am planning on getting a b.87 or a b.face.
That said, I current have a DS4 at home that could probably be cut down to TKL or even 60% so that will probably be done in the future, I'll just have to bribe my wife with more hand bags or spa trips so I can buy another board :)
I do a lot of accounting as well so I'm always wanting a 100% board. But I have also considered the move to a tkl and a separate num pad. Let me know how you find it to be. If you're entering as many numbers as I am, you'll find out very quickly what's better.
Will do! I think having different switch types on a separate num pad might be kind of nice, but I really enjoy the Greens that I have currently so I would probably just get those again, unless I could snag a num pad with Gateron blues.
-
I work in accounting and tax prep so at my office desk I use a full-size. We are currently in the process of moving offices to a much bigger place, with bigger offices and desks, so I guess I could get away with a 60% with a numpad but I would rather just keep my V2 full-size as a no-frills workhorse board. I will actually have a 2nd office location at the newest office for generic hardware and software testing as the un-official IT person of the office (I am under 50 and a male, so that automatically means I can fix things according to my office mates) so I am planning on getting a b.87 or a b.face.
That said, I current have a DS4 at home that could probably be cut down to TKL or even 60% so that will probably be done in the future, I'll just have to bribe my wife with more hand bags or spa trips so I can buy another board :)
I do a lot of accounting as well so I'm always wanting a 100% board. But I have also considered the move to a tkl and a separate num pad. Let me know how you find it to be. If you're entering as many numbers as I am, you'll find out very quickly what's better.
Will do! I think having different switch types on a separate num pad might be kind of nice, but I really enjoy the Greens that I have currently so I would probably just get those again, unless I could snag a num pad with Gateron blues.
I haven't tried greens, but I will now that you mentioned you use it. I've been on buckling springs forever and finding a BS num pad seems impossible. :(
-
If this thread is any indication of the direction mech keyboards are heading, I feel like I should stock up on ANSI 104s (and 108s) before they become extinct.
I prefer 100% keyboards. I don't need the numpad most of the time, but I like the look of it, and a TKL just looks "wrong" to my eyes. I also am not afflicted with such tiny workspaces that I need the space that the numpad takes up for anything else. Not even the mouse. The position of the mouse next to my 100% boards puts it exactly where the arm rests on my chair(s) position my hands anyway, so a TKL would cause my mousing arm/hand to be off the arm rest. That's bad juju.
Going even smaller than a 100% or TKL removes too many useful keys for real work. And I don't need portability; I'm not a student who needs to carry his or her world on his or her back. However, I find a Pok3r to be a nice match with my iPad, which I really only use (in terms of typing) for forum posts and the occasional e-mail. In such a limited operation context, I don't have a need for function keys or even the nav cluster apart from basic cursor control. And for cursor movement, I'm okay with FN+IJKL. But I could never be happy with a 60% on a desktop machine where I need to do real work, which in my case usually involves writing lots of C++ or Python code.
Has anyone ever done a survey/study that correlates keyboard layouts with the kinds of typing tasks performed on them?
-
I work in accounting and tax prep so at my office desk I use a full-size. We are currently in the process of moving offices to a much bigger place, with bigger offices and desks, so I guess I could get away with a 60% with a numpad but I would rather just keep my V2 full-size as a no-frills workhorse board. I will actually have a 2nd office location at the newest office for generic hardware and software testing as the un-official IT person of the office (I am under 50 and a male, so that automatically means I can fix things according to my office mates) so I am planning on getting a b.87 or a b.face.
That said, I current have a DS4 at home that could probably be cut down to TKL or even 60% so that will probably be done in the future, I'll just have to bribe my wife with more hand bags or spa trips so I can buy another board :)
I do a lot of accounting as well so I'm always wanting a 100% board. But I have also considered the move to a tkl and a separate num pad. Let me know how you find it to be. If you're entering as many numbers as I am, you'll find out very quickly what's better.
Will do! I think having different switch types on a separate num pad might be kind of nice, but I really enjoy the Greens that I have currently so I would probably just get those again, unless I could snag a num pad with Gateron blues.
I haven't tried greens, but I will now that you mentioned you use it. I've been on buckling springs forever and finding a BS num pad seems impossible. :(
I would say that Greens feel similar to BS boards in regards to actuation, but the tactility of the keypress is more pronounced on a BS board. Both feel quite nice, but I agree that the chances of finding a BS num pad are next to none, sadly :(
-
Honestly, I don't see 104s going away any time soon. This place heavily caters to niche market items. At Blizzcon, I saw nothing smaller than a TKL board promoted and loads of full size boards. The general makers (Razer, Coolermaster, Corsair, Ducky) are not likely going to leave those markets any time soon.
Come to think of it, we need to get the GH-122 board back on track. An ANSI layout 122 board would be fantastic!
-
I work in accounting and tax prep so at my office desk I use a full-size. We are currently in the process of moving offices to a much bigger place, with bigger offices and desks, so I guess I could get away with a 60% with a numpad but I would rather just keep my V2 full-size as a no-frills workhorse board. I will actually have a 2nd office location at the newest office for generic hardware and software testing as the un-official IT person of the office (I am under 50 and a male, so that automatically means I can fix things according to my office mates) so I am planning on getting a b.87 or a b.face.
That said, I current have a DS4 at home that could probably be cut down to TKL or even 60% so that will probably be done in the future, I'll just have to bribe my wife with more hand bags or spa trips so I can buy another board :)
I do a lot of accounting as well so I'm always wanting a 100% board. But I have also considered the move to a tkl and a separate num pad. Let me know how you find it to be. If you're entering as many numbers as I am, you'll find out very quickly what's better.
Will do! I think having different switch types on a separate num pad might be kind of nice, but I really enjoy the Greens that I have currently so I would probably just get those again, unless I could snag a num pad with Gateron blues.
I haven't tried greens, but I will now that you mentioned you use it. I've been on buckling springs forever and finding a BS num pad seems impossible. :(
I would say that Greens feel similar to BS boards in regards to actuation, but the tactility of the keypress is more pronounced on a BS board. Both feel quite nice, but I agree that the chances of finding a BS num pad are next to none, sadly :(
Thank you for the feedback on the greens! It is sad that a BS num pad doesn't exist. I actually did a search for one and came up with an old thread on here about a group buy or whatnot on one.
-
It doesn't seem as if number pads will work with Macs (at least the small sample size I looked at). Doesn't effect me at the moment but it's one option we Aplle folks don't have.
(If there is one that works let me know)
-
It doesn't seem as if number pads will work with Macs (at least the small sample size I looked at). Doesn't effect me at the moment but it's one option we Aplle folks don't have.
(If there is one that works let me know)
Part of the "features" Apple "offers" to its customers is the ability to be almost limited to Apple accessories only; you can enjoy the "Apple's ecosystem" or change to other computing platform.
-
I currently have a 60%, TKL, and a full sized board. I've been using the TKL for the past few days and it's been weird to have my full sized board fill up the space again. It was more than welcomed back though, I did miss the numpad for inputting numbers. Specifically credit card numbers, and doing some Math homework.
With the TKL I didn't feel like it was a major change besides the fact that I couldn't use the numpad's enter key which I use sometimes since it would be closer to my mouse hand. As for using a 60% it took like a few days to get adjusted to, I have played CS on the 60% and I enjoy it very much due to the esc key being closer. It was weird to adjust back to a TKL/ full sized board after gaming with the 60%.
All in all, I love all my keyboards no matter what shape or size they come in! I don't discriminate <3
-
I currently have a 60%, TKL, and a full sized board. I've been using the TKL for the past few days and it's been weird to have my full sized board fill up the space again. It was more than welcomed back though, I did miss the numpad for inputting numbers. Specifically credit card numbers, and doing some Math homework.
With the TKL I didn't feel like it was a major change besides the fact that I couldn't use the numpad's enter key which I use sometimes since it would be closer to my mouse hand. As for using a 60% it took like a few days to get adjusted to, I have played CS on the 60% and I enjoy it very much due to the esc key being closer. It was weird to adjust back to a TKL/ full sized board after gaming with the 60%.
All in all, I love all my keyboards no matter what shape or size they come in! I don't discriminate <3
One wise comment to listen to; in summary, use what adjust your needs better and forget about trying to convert the world to your preference. You can even use all formats available, as required for the task at hand.
-
I currently have a 60%, TKL, and a full sized board. I've been using the TKL for the past few days and it's been weird to have my full sized board fill up the space again. It was more than welcomed back though, I did miss the numpad for inputting numbers. Specifically credit card numbers, and doing some Math homework.
With the TKL I didn't feel like it was a major change besides the fact that I couldn't use the numpad's enter key which I use sometimes since it would be closer to my mouse hand. As for using a 60% it took like a few days to get adjusted to, I have played CS on the 60% and I enjoy it very much due to the esc key being closer. It was weird to adjust back to a TKL/ full sized board after gaming with the 60%.
All in all, I love all my keyboards no matter what shape or size they come in! I don't discriminate <3
One wise comment to listen to; in summary, use what adjust your needs better and forget about trying to convert the world to your preference. You can even use all formats available, as required for the task at hand.
Definitely seems sage to me. If I was an accountant my goals for a work board would be different than they are as a retired bum who games occasionally.
-
I currently have a 60%, TKL, and a full sized board. I've been using the TKL for the past few days and it's been weird to have my full sized board fill up the space again. It was more than welcomed back though, I did miss the numpad for inputting numbers. Specifically credit card numbers, and doing some Math homework.
With the TKL I didn't feel like it was a major change besides the fact that I couldn't use the numpad's enter key which I use sometimes since it would be closer to my mouse hand. As for using a 60% it took like a few days to get adjusted to, I have played CS on the 60% and I enjoy it very much due to the esc key being closer. It was weird to adjust back to a TKL/ full sized board after gaming with the 60%.
All in all, I love all my keyboards no matter what shape or size they come in! I don't discriminate <3
One wise comment to listen to; in summary, use what adjust your needs better and forget about trying to convert the world to your preference. You can even use all formats available, as required for the task at hand.
Definitely seems safe to me. If I was an accountant my goals for a work board would be different than they are as a retired bum who games occasionally.
It sounds a little bit cruel as you had put it, but yeah, basically it is the point made.
-
I'm gonna be the annoying dissenter and say that as someone who is in excel everyday and building financial models... the "accountant" you mention - I think 60% boards are just as good for spreadsheet work as any board with dedicated arrow keys as long as you are familiar with the board/layout
Sure if I was a first time 60% users I wouldn't want to touch a spreadsheet without dedicated arrow keys
-
I'm gonna be the annoying dissenter and say that as someone who is in excel everyday and building financial models... the "accountant" you mention - I think 60% boards are just as good for spreadsheet work as any board with dedicated arrow keys as long as you are familiar with the board/layout
Sure if I was a first time 60% users I wouldn't want to touch a spreadsheet without dedicated arrow keys
Would you just use the top row numbers to input large numbers then? I find it weird to input large amounts of numbers without a numpad, I would do it if I had to but I'd prefer not to if I had a numpad.
Also I hope your mail gets there soon! :P
-
If this thread is any indication of the direction mech keyboards are heading, I feel like I should stock up on ANSI 104s (and 108s) before they become extinct.
I prefer 100% keyboards. I don't need the numpad most of the time, but I like the look of it, and a TKL just looks "wrong" to my eyes. I also am not afflicted with such tiny workspaces that I need the space that the numpad takes up for anything else. Not even the mouse. The position of the mouse next to my 100% boards puts it exactly where the arm rests on my chair(s) position my hands anyway, so a TKL would cause my mousing arm/hand to be off the arm rest. That's bad juju.
Going even smaller than a 100% or TKL removes too many useful keys for real work. And I don't need portability; I'm not a student who needs to carry his or her world on his or her back. However, I find a Pok3r to be a nice match with my iPad, which I really only use (in terms of typing) for forum posts and the occasional e-mail. In such a limited operation context, I don't have a need for function keys or even the nav cluster apart from basic cursor control. And for cursor movement, I'm okay with FN+IJKL. But I could never be happy with a 60% on a desktop machine where I need to do real work, which in my case usually involves writing lots of C++ or Python code.
Has anyone ever done a survey/study that correlates keyboard layouts with the kinds of typing tasks performed on them?
Biggest disadvantage of 100% is the position of the typing area. It's way over to the left which means you're putting uneven tension and stresses into your arms / shoulders and increases the likelihood of the right wrist being angled badly during typing, which can lead to all kinds of wrist health problems down the line.
I use 60% and smaller exclusively and I work as a software developer (c#, c++, java, html, etc).
-
I have the same issue of the position with full size keyboards, the main typing area is not exactly in front of me, the mouse is too far, those compromises are solved with a 60%, even the FC660 does not fit the bill.
-
I have the same issue of the position with full size keyboards, the main typing area is not exactly in front of me, the mouse is too far, those compromises are solved with a 60%, even the FC660 does not fit the bill.
Yes, indeed. Although I keep TKL boards in my rotation, the asymmetry throws me off, and the top-row F-keys along with the navigation island are largely wasted space for me. I am most comfortable using a 60%.
-
I'm gonna be the annoying dissenter and say that as someone who is in excel everyday and building financial models... the "accountant" you mention - I think 60% boards are just as good for spreadsheet work as any board with dedicated arrow keys as long as you are familiar with the board/layout
Sure if I was a first time 60% users I wouldn't want to touch a spreadsheet without dedicated arrow keys
I could see this if one can used to their board. If you're most comfortable with it, you'll be the fastest with it. :thumb:
I have the same issue of the position with full size keyboards, the main typing area is not exactly in front of me, the mouse is too far, those compromises are solved with a 60%, even the FC660 does not fit the bill.
And for most, this is definitely the case, but when you are working with numbers and navigation a lot, your hands tend to be centered since they are using both areas of the board.
-
I have the same issue of the position with full size keyboards, the main typing area is not exactly in front of me, the mouse is too far, those compromises are solved with a 60%, even the FC660 does not fit the bill.
Yes, indeed. Although I keep TKL boards in my rotation, the asymmetry throws me off, and the top-row F-keys along with the navigation island are largely wasted space for me. I am most comfortable using a 60%.
But the F-keys are obviously where you proudly display your artisans!
-
I have the same issue of the position with full size keyboards, the main typing area is not exactly in front of me, the mouse is too far, those compromises are solved with a 60%, even the FC660 does not fit the bill.
Yes, indeed. Although I keep TKL boards in my rotation, the asymmetry throws me off, and the top-row F-keys along with the navigation island are largely wasted space for me. I am most comfortable using a 60%.
But the F-keys are obviously where you proudly display your artisans!
What artisans?
-
I have the same issue of the position with full size keyboards, the main typing area is not exactly in front of me, the mouse is too far, those compromises are solved with a 60%, even the FC660 does not fit the bill.
Yes, indeed. Although I keep TKL boards in my rotation, the asymmetry throws me off, and the top-row F-keys along with the navigation island are largely wasted space for me. I am most comfortable using a 60%.
But the F-keys are obviously where you proudly display your artisans!
What artisans?
Whatever artisans you want! Or none if you so desire.
-
If this thread is any indication of the direction mech keyboards are heading, I feel like I should stock up on ANSI 104s (and 108s) before they become extinct.
I prefer 100% keyboards. I don't need the numpad most of the time, but I like the look of it, and a TKL just looks "wrong" to my eyes. I also am not afflicted with such tiny workspaces that I need the space that the numpad takes up for anything else. Not even the mouse. The position of the mouse next to my 100% boards puts it exactly where the arm rests on my chair(s) position my hands anyway, so a TKL would cause my mousing arm/hand to be off the arm rest. That's bad juju.
Going even smaller than a 100% or TKL removes too many useful keys for real work. And I don't need portability; I'm not a student who needs to carry his or her world on his or her back. However, I find a Pok3r to be a nice match with my iPad, which I really only use (in terms of typing) for forum posts and the occasional e-mail. In such a limited operation context, I don't have a need for function keys or even the nav cluster apart from basic cursor control. And for cursor movement, I'm okay with FN+IJKL. But I could never be happy with a 60% on a desktop machine where I need to do real work, which in my case usually involves writing lots of C++ or Python code.
Has anyone ever done a survey/study that correlates keyboard layouts with the kinds of typing tasks performed on them?
Biggest disadvantage of 100% is the position of the typing area. It's way over to the left which means you're putting uneven tension and stresses into your arms / shoulders and increases the likelihood of the right wrist being angled badly during typing, which can lead to all kinds of wrist health problems down the line.
I use 60% and smaller exclusively and I work as a software developer (c#, c++, java, html, etc).
Okay, yeah, I see what you're saying. And it certainly makes sense.
Having said that, I've been "coping" with that disadvantage for 30+ years and have yet to develop any wrist health problems. I'm not sure how I've avoided it all these years, but weird stress angles (when not using the mouse) have not led to problems (yet).
Now, I could adjust to a 60% for software coding work too if I had to, but I'd have to unlearn typing movements burned into muscle memory over the course of three decades. There is absolutely no incentive to do that. It's like those alternate layouts like Dvorak and Colemak. I understand their proposed benefits, but at my age (and stage in my career) I have no need or interest in re-training my muscle memory. It's annoying enough as it is to try to get used to FN+IJKL for cursor movement on this Pok3r. I will probably never get used to FN-` for the backtick, and I'm grateful that I don't ever need it on my iPad anyway.
I remember back in the 80s when I made the transition from terminals (hooked up to mainframes), where my muscle memory expected the Ctrl key to be where Caps Lock is now, to personal computers where it was suddenly below the Shift key. That was awkward and annoying. I really don't want to go through that again just to save some space on my desktop.
But for folks who don't touch type or haven't been using a particular layout for 20 or 30 years, switching to something other than standard ANSI is probably no big deal. For them, downsizing offers more benefits than retaining a layout that's not necessarily embedded in muscle memory anyway.
-
As a new owner of a poker 3, it still is taking me a while to get used to 60% but I love that I have so much extra space. I still derp when I need to use arrow keys though. Sometimes I think it is faster for me to move the cursor with my mouse instead of fumbling for arrow keys lol.
-
If I needed a numb pad I'd be tempted by something like the monarch that puts it on the left where it'd be more 'out of the way'.
-
If this thread is any indication of the direction mech keyboards are heading, I feel like I should stock up on ANSI 104s (and 108s) before they become extinct.
I prefer 100% keyboards. I don't need the numpad most of the time, but I like the look of it, and a TKL just looks "wrong" to my eyes. I also am not afflicted with such tiny workspaces that I need the space that the numpad takes up for anything else. Not even the mouse. The position of the mouse next to my 100% boards puts it exactly where the arm rests on my chair(s) position my hands anyway, so a TKL would cause my mousing arm/hand to be off the arm rest. That's bad juju.
Going even smaller than a 100% or TKL removes too many useful keys for real work. And I don't need portability; I'm not a student who needs to carry his or her world on his or her back. However, I find a Pok3r to be a nice match with my iPad, which I really only use (in terms of typing) for forum posts and the occasional e-mail. In such a limited operation context, I don't have a need for function keys or even the nav cluster apart from basic cursor control. And for cursor movement, I'm okay with FN+IJKL. But I could never be happy with a 60% on a desktop machine where I need to do real work, which in my case usually involves writing lots of C++ or Python code.
Has anyone ever done a survey/study that correlates keyboard layouts with the kinds of typing tasks performed on them?
Biggest disadvantage of 100% is the position of the typing area. It's way over to the left which means you're putting uneven tension and stresses into your arms / shoulders and increases the likelihood of the right wrist being angled badly during typing, which can lead to all kinds of wrist health problems down the line.
I use 60% and smaller exclusively and I work as a software developer (c#, c++, java, html, etc).
Okay, yeah, I see what you're saying. And it certainly makes sense.
Having said that, I've been "coping" with that disadvantage for 30+ years and have yet to develop any wrist health problems. I'm not sure how I've avoided it all these years, but weird stress angles (when not using the mouse) have not led to problems (yet).
Now, I could adjust to a 60% for software coding work too if I had to, but I'd have to unlearn typing movements burned into muscle memory over the course of three decades. There is absolutely no incentive to do that. It's like those alternate layouts like Dvorak and Colemak. I understand their proposed benefits, but at my age (and stage in my career) I have no need or interest in re-training my muscle memory. It's annoying enough as it is to try to get used to FN+IJKL for cursor movement on this Pok3r. I will probably never get used to FN-` for the backtick, and I'm grateful that I don't ever need it on my iPad anyway.
I remember back in the 80s when I made the transition from terminals (hooked up to mainframes), where my muscle memory expected the Ctrl key to be where Caps Lock is now, to personal computers where it was suddenly below the Shift key. That was awkward and annoying. I really don't want to go through that again just to save some space on my desktop.
But for folks who don't touch type or haven't been using a particular layout for 20 or 30 years, switching to something other than standard ANSI is probably no big deal. For them, downsizing offers more benefits than retaining a layout that's not necessarily embedded in muscle memory anyway.
Understood, and that's a very good argument for not going smaller. I do find I am more efficient on a TKL, since the arrow and edit keys are burned into my muscle memory from my DOS days of coding in Turbo Pascal and that 20 or so years of familiarity is strong factor, one that made me hesitant to commit to a 60. I do think that for some a 60% is a step too far, for others a 40% is that step too far. For some, like yourself, even a TKL may be that step, if you use the number pad a lot.
In the end, a combination of ergonomics and aesthetics pushed me over the edge. I still miss my arrows and edits now and then, but overall it was worth it for me. I'm also getting one of these from Massdrop (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/magicforce-68-key-mini-mechanical-keyboard) to possibly use as a board for work. Not much larger than 60%, but even that little may prove too much. I like the FC660, but I prefer to have all standard keycap sizes.
-
I had only used a fullsize before and just received my very first 60% (a hhkb). It is taking a little bit of getting used to but so far I love the layout and appreciate the extra desk space that I get!
-
One of the more common sights at my place of employment is that of a Wacom tablet where a keyboard would be, with the keyboard above it (not hovering above, but on the desk between tablet and monitor stand). The depth of the keyboard is more of a "space consumption" factor than its width, and since Wacom users don't use a mouse, the numpad isn't interfering in any way. Of course, these users have virtually no use for the numpad or the navcluster, so a 60% would probably be perfect for them. Alas, our company would never spend that kind of money on keyboards.
-
I honestly think the argument of smaller keyboards for ergonomics is heavily dependent on each user. I see a lot of argument on ergonomics via size but I'm honestly not the biggest proponent of this.
The main problem, for me, regarding size is that a decrease in size puts useful-to-me keys on another layer that requires the use of multiple keys. That can often create more pain for my forearms than simply moving my hand to a single button somewhere on the keyboard.
I could easily drop down to a 75% board and be fully functional. Smaller than that and I'm really not gaining any ergonomic advantages while sacrificing heavily used keys (PgUp/PgDown get used a lot in web browsers, arrow keys get used a lot for Puppet and Ruby coding, function keys get used a decent amount, particularly Ctrl-F4 for closing tabs as I'm often hands on the keyboard and reading something on a site and alt-tabbing back to a shell.
At some point I may pick up a 75% board but I'm more interested in seeing how the final product of the Axios looks. I'll keep dedicated function keys and likely be able to remap the brackets to places where they're still easily accessible.
-
I think for me 60% is always going to be prefered; all the 'missing' buttons are within two presses usually. I never really used the number pad too much so a TKL is my prefered at the minute but it's 80 > 60 > 100 for me, not tried a 40 or 75 etc.
I love the compactness of a 60% however, which is why I'm getting a Pok3r for Christmas.
-
I used to hate 60%, but now I exclusively use my Infinity, even to the point of carrying it everywhere. I even setup a hotkey set up to disable my laptop's keyboard so I can safely put my Infinity on top without accidentally triggering the keys underneath. The reason for my change of heart is full programmability.
SpaceFN + arrows on home row is so much nicer than dedicated arrow keys. No two hands operation required, no awkward Fn presses required, and I don't have to move my fingers away from the home row, unless when I need to use the mouse. I can also program shift-Esc to output ~ to deal with my muscle memory, because I do a lot of command line and bash scripts. I can make the right shift, ctrl, win & menu keys to act as dedicated arrow keys, while still retaining their original functions at the same time.
If you hate 60% and all you have tried are Pokers and HHKBs, then you are missing all the fun ;D
-
Well, I think I just made the leap into a tkl board. I couldn't pass it up--$20 for a nib IBM 1397680 made 3-10-1993 with the original box. :eek: :eek: :eek: It was like a gift from heaven.
I haven't hooked it up yet because it's like unpacking a new toy, but it's going to get interesting now...
-
If you hate 60% and all you have tried are Pokers and HHKBs, then you are missing all the fun ;D
Well, I'm certainly missing a lot of keys ;)
-
Well, I think I just made the leap into a tkl board. I couldn't pass it up--$20 for a nib IBM 1397680 made 3-10-1993 with the original box. :eek: :eek: :eek: It was like a gift from heaven.
I haven't hooked it up yet because it's like unpacking a new toy, but it's going to get interesting now...
Wow. You lucky ...... *&^*(%%&$^@!!! JK JK, congrats on the awesome score! :thumb:
-
Well, I think I just made the leap into a tkl board. I couldn't pass it up--$20 for a nib IBM 1397680 made 3-10-1993 with the original box. :eek: :eek: :eek: It was like a gift from heaven.
I haven't hooked it up yet because it's like unpacking a new toy, but it's going to get interesting now...
Wow. You lucky ...... *&^*(%%&$^@!!! JK JK, congrats on the awesome score! :thumb:
I know! I couldn't believe it! After seeing all the tkl bs boards on here I was thinking if I was going to go smaller, that's the way I'd go, but boy that's expensive so I guess I'll stay full size--and then bam! My jaw dropped to the floor when I first saw it.
I had no idea these had a built in numeric keypad like on laptop keyboards. I'm sure there's a way of using shift or alt or ctrl to probably access them using a 'modifier' key without setting the numlock too.
-
Wow i didnt expect this thread to get so much attention
-
love, love, LOVE my 60% board. never have to move my hands from the homerow for anything, especially with my caps lock converted into an fn key on my pok3r... so nice.
i use a full-size when i need a number pad for homework and for when i'm using my desktop computer, but i generally find myself swapping it out for my pok3r, anyway. i should also note that, as an accounting student, i dislike using the numbers above the alphas and prefer having a number pad for ANY sort of number data entry, even if it means i have to move my right hand off of the home row (which seems contradictory given the following), but i find that the utility and efficiency i get out of a number pad far outweighs the convenience of a number row above my fingers (which isn't even that convenient - i never learned to touch type the number row and i find it useless given the general availability of a number pad when i need one). when i figure out the wiring and find a place to cut the plate, i'm planning on converting the number pad on my aek ii into an external numpad so i have one that i can use with my pok3r - screw the navigation cluster!
i also find myself trying to use caps lock + i, j, k, l on my full-size board, and then sigh heavily when i realize i have to take my hand off of my keys to use the dedicated keys. i don't think i could live with a tkl... it just seems pointless when all the functions are available and in a much more ergonomic package in a 60%.
-
Has anybody found setups or other tips to help adjust to going 60%?
-
Has anybody found setups or other tips to help adjust to going 60%?
I would say to just go with it. When I purchased my Poker 2, I had no idea what I was getting into. I have no regrets with that purchase so far.
It's easy due to the portability aspect if that's what you're looking for. I've also found that it gives me a lot more room to maneuver my mouse while playing CS. I rotate the keyboard out with my full size one pretty often, so I think you'd get used to it.
-
I started with a full size Ducky Shine 3 with Cherry MX Blues. I love the keyboard but I felt that it was too large. For my second keyboard I was going to get a Pok3r but instead, I got a Quickfire Stealth because I felt that I needed dedicated arrow keys, and I don't regret it. But now, I miss having the number pad. A keyboard doesn't feel complete if I don't have a number pad. I know that there are mechanical number pads I can get but having everything on one keyboard feels complete. It's weird.
-
Has anybody found setups or other tips to help adjust to going 60%?
My suggestion would be to get something programmable. It's a lot easier when you can setup the layout the way you want. I've found that SpaceFN works great for me and I like it better than dedicated arrows for the most part.
-
This may be a silly noob question about programmable 60% boards - can the lower layers be reprogrammed to the top instead of having to hold down space + fn? Or, is a toggle (not momentary) available to access the lower layers?
-
On a Pok3r, an alternate layer is akin to a "mode" of operation that you are in until you switch out of it. At any given time, you are either in the default layer, layer 2, layer 3, or layer 4. Being in a layer is modal, not momentary.
-
This may be a silly noob question about programmable 60% boards - can the lower layers be reprogrammed to the top instead of having to hold down space + fn? Or, is a toggle (not momentary) available to access the lower layers?
It depends on the actual programming approach the board has, regarding that, most commercial keyboards like the Pok3r, its previous versions and similar competitors are inherently limited to do that, but customs, like Face, GON and similar could do that very easily.
-
I have a V60 and a Pok3r. At first it was awkward not having a number pad and missing a few keys, but the 5 or 6 inches of desk real estate more than makes up for it. I don't have any elbow pain either. I've learned to use the number row and like it better, except for the rare time I have to type a very long number. To access t he number pad I had to look at the board and move my hand, which was kind of annoying.
-
love, love, LOVE my 60% board. never have to move my hands from the homerow for anything, especially with my caps lock converted into an fn key on my pok3r... so nice.
i use a full-size when i need a number pad for homework and for when i'm using my desktop computer, but i generally find myself swapping it out for my pok3r, anyway. i should also note that, as an accounting student, i dislike using the numbers above the alphas and prefer having a number pad for ANY sort of number data entry, even if it means i have to move my right hand off of the home row (which seems contradictory given the following), but i find that the utility and efficiency i get out of a number pad far outweighs the convenience of a number row above my fingers (which isn't even that convenient - i never learned to touch type the number row and i find it useless given the general availability of a number pad when i need one). when i figure out the wiring and find a place to cut the plate, i'm planning on converting the number pad on my aek ii into an external numpad so i have one that i can use with my pok3r - screw the navigation cluster!
i also find myself trying to use caps lock + i, j, k, l on my full-size board, and then sigh heavily when i realize i have to take my hand off of my keys to use the dedicated keys. i don't think i could live with a tkl... it just seems pointless when all the functions are available and in a much more ergonomic package in a 60%.
Have you tried moving all your fingers to the number row to see if you can work the numbers that way? I've been experimenting with it on and off, but really need to use a typing tutor to see if my hands can adjust to it. The advantage is that you fingers wouldn't have to move almost at all for each number.
-
love, love, LOVE my 60% board. never have to move my hands from the homerow for anything, especially with my caps lock converted into an fn key on my pok3r... so nice.
i use a full-size when i need a number pad for homework and for when i'm using my desktop computer, but i generally find myself swapping it out for my pok3r, anyway. i should also note that, as an accounting student, i dislike using the numbers above the alphas and prefer having a number pad for ANY sort of number data entry, even if it means i have to move my right hand off of the home row (which seems contradictory given the following), but i find that the utility and efficiency i get out of a number pad far outweighs the convenience of a number row above my fingers (which isn't even that convenient - i never learned to touch type the number row and i find it useless given the general availability of a number pad when i need one). when i figure out the wiring and find a place to cut the plate, i'm planning on converting the number pad on my aek ii into an external numpad so i have one that i can use with my pok3r - screw the navigation cluster!
i also find myself trying to use caps lock + i, j, k, l on my full-size board, and then sigh heavily when i realize i have to take my hand off of my keys to use the dedicated keys. i don't think i could live with a tkl... it just seems pointless when all the functions are available and in a much more ergonomic package in a 60%.
Have you tried moving all your fingers to the number row to see if you can work the numbers that way? I've been experimenting with it on and off, but really need to use a typing tutor to see if my hands can adjust to it. The advantage is that you fingers wouldn't have to move almost at all for each number.
i've seen this argument before but when i'm doing extended sessions with number entry, i'm generally working in excel or tax software, so having on hand on tab and the other on the numpad is best. i need access to the *, /, +, -, and . symbols. on top of that, i find that the layout of the numpad is better than having all the numbers on a single row anyway
-
love, love, LOVE my 60% board. never have to move my hands from the homerow for anything, especially with my caps lock converted into an fn key on my pok3r... so nice.
i use a full-size when i need a number pad for homework and for when i'm using my desktop computer, but i generally find myself swapping it out for my pok3r, anyway. i should also note that, as an accounting student, i dislike using the numbers above the alphas and prefer having a number pad for ANY sort of number data entry, even if it means i have to move my right hand off of the home row (which seems contradictory given the following), but i find that the utility and efficiency i get out of a number pad far outweighs the convenience of a number row above my fingers (which isn't even that convenient - i never learned to touch type the number row and i find it useless given the general availability of a number pad when i need one). when i figure out the wiring and find a place to cut the plate, i'm planning on converting the number pad on my aek ii into an external numpad so i have one that i can use with my pok3r - screw the navigation cluster!
i also find myself trying to use caps lock + i, j, k, l on my full-size board, and then sigh heavily when i realize i have to take my hand off of my keys to use the dedicated keys. i don't think i could live with a tkl... it just seems pointless when all the functions are available and in a much more ergonomic package in a 60%.
Have you tried moving all your fingers to the number row to see if you can work the numbers that way? I've been experimenting with it on and off, but really need to use a typing tutor to see if my hands can adjust to it. The advantage is that you fingers wouldn't have to move almost at all for each number.
i've seen this argument before but when i'm doing extended sessions with number entry, i'm generally working in excel or tax software, so having on hand on tab and the other on the numpad is best. i need access to the *, /, +, -, and . symbols. on top of that, i find that the layout of the numpad is better than having all the numbers on a single row anyway
A 60% with layers that can be toggled could work for you still. Toggle your "Excel" layer (that has 0 on spacebar and "." on Alt for example, with the other numbers and symbols in familiar spots above / around that) and off you go.
Or you can simply get used to hitting "Tab" with your left pinkie to change cells. You don't need a whole hand for a single key and using both hands for the numbers can be quicker than one. It's usually just a matter of what you're used to and whether what you have to do to get used to a 60% is worth the benefits to you, personally. Both the benefits and sacrifices are "personally weighted".
-
love, love, LOVE my 60% board. never have to move my hands from the homerow for anything, especially with my caps lock converted into an fn key on my pok3r... so nice.
i use a full-size when i need a number pad for homework and for when i'm using my desktop computer, but i generally find myself swapping it out for my pok3r, anyway. i should also note that, as an accounting student, i dislike using the numbers above the alphas and prefer having a number pad for ANY sort of number data entry, even if it means i have to move my right hand off of the home row (which seems contradictory given the following), but i find that the utility and efficiency i get out of a number pad far outweighs the convenience of a number row above my fingers (which isn't even that convenient - i never learned to touch type the number row and i find it useless given the general availability of a number pad when i need one). when i figure out the wiring and find a place to cut the plate, i'm planning on converting the number pad on my aek ii into an external numpad so i have one that i can use with my pok3r - screw the navigation cluster!
i also find myself trying to use caps lock + i, j, k, l on my full-size board, and then sigh heavily when i realize i have to take my hand off of my keys to use the dedicated keys. i don't think i could live with a tkl... it just seems pointless when all the functions are available and in a much more ergonomic package in a 60%.
Have you tried moving all your fingers to the number row to see if you can work the numbers that way? I've been experimenting with it on and off, but really need to use a typing tutor to see if my hands can adjust to it. The advantage is that you fingers wouldn't have to move almost at all for each number.
i've seen this argument before but when i'm doing extended sessions with number entry, i'm generally working in excel or tax software, so having on hand on tab and the other on the numpad is best. i need access to the *, /, +, -, and . symbols. on top of that, i find that the layout of the numpad is better than having all the numbers on a single row anyway
I forgot about the mathmatic functions on the keypad that aren't as easily triggered on the number row.
One thing that may help even when using a numpad is that if you hold shift and press any of 2,4,6,8, they control your cursor and 7,9,1,3 are page up/down and home/end. 0 and . when shifted are ins and del. I recently remembered these after seeing the legends on my M and reading how Matias calls this a 'feature' on their full size boards.
-
love, love, LOVE my 60% board. never have to move my hands from the homerow for anything, especially with my caps lock converted into an fn key on my pok3r... so nice.
i use a full-size when i need a number pad for homework and for when i'm using my desktop computer, but i generally find myself swapping it out for my pok3r, anyway. i should also note that, as an accounting student, i dislike using the numbers above the alphas and prefer having a number pad for ANY sort of number data entry, even if it means i have to move my right hand off of the home row (which seems contradictory given the following), but i find that the utility and efficiency i get out of a number pad far outweighs the convenience of a number row above my fingers (which isn't even that convenient - i never learned to touch type the number row and i find it useless given the general availability of a number pad when i need one). when i figure out the wiring and find a place to cut the plate, i'm planning on converting the number pad on my aek ii into an external numpad so i have one that i can use with my pok3r - screw the navigation cluster!
i also find myself trying to use caps lock + i, j, k, l on my full-size board, and then sigh heavily when i realize i have to take my hand off of my keys to use the dedicated keys. i don't think i could live with a tkl... it just seems pointless when all the functions are available and in a much more ergonomic package in a 60%.
Have you tried moving all your fingers to the number row to see if you can work the numbers that way? I've been experimenting with it on and off, but really need to use a typing tutor to see if my hands can adjust to it. The advantage is that you fingers wouldn't have to move almost at all for each number.
i've seen this argument before but when i'm doing extended sessions with number entry, i'm generally working in excel or tax software, so having on hand on tab and the other on the numpad is best. i need access to the *, /, +, -, and . symbols. on top of that, i find that the layout of the numpad is better than having all the numbers on a single row anyway
A 60% with layers that can be toggled could work for you still. Toggle your "Excel" layer (that has 0 on spacebar and "." on Alt for example, with the other numbers and symbols in familiar spots above / around that) and off you go.
Or you can simply get used to hitting "Tab" with your left pinkie to change cells. You don't need a whole hand for a single key and using both hands for the numbers can be quicker than one. It's usually just a matter of what you're used to and whether what you have to do to get used to a 60% is worth the benefits to you, personally. Both the benefits and sacrifices are "personally weighted".
This is an interesting application for layers. So you could even map the numbers to the regular home row using layers too and then just activate the layer and type away? Kinda like an 'excel lock' feature?
-
This thread has convinced me to buy a Pok3r. I intend to remap the #s to the left on layer 2, and navigation and a few f-keys to the right. I would stay in layer 2 and switch to default when needed. I can optimize layer 3 for Excel. Layer 4 may be a 'test' layer.
-
Personally I don't ever see myself going back to a 100% keyboard. The space it takes up just isn't worth it. I love my fc660c and I will hopefully like my new KUL ES-87 that I am going to switch swap to zealios. Im fine with using a seperate keypad on the left side of the keyboard anyway. Not that I have one or have a need for one. But if I do need one some day thats what I am going to do.
-
Personally I don't ever see myself going back to a 100% keyboard. The space it takes up just isn't worth it. I love my fc660c and I will hopefully like my new KUL ES-87 that I am going to switch swap to zealios. Im fine with using a seperate keypad on the left side of the keyboard anyway. Not that I have one or have a need for one. But if I do need one some day thats what I am going to do.
I actually just swapped from a TKL back to a full board :P I haven't been using my Poker though. I think I will be using it a lot more in the next few days since I have an essay due soon. D:
-
Personally I don't ever see myself going back to a 100% keyboard. The space it takes up just isn't worth it. I love my fc660c and I will hopefully like my new KUL ES-87 that I am going to switch swap to zealios. Im fine with using a seperate keypad on the left side of the keyboard anyway. Not that I have one or have a need for one. But if I do need one some day thats what I am going to do.
Meanwhile, I'm hoping the GH-122 project starts back up again. I'd pick up one of those battleships.
-
This may be a silly noob question about programmable 60% boards - can the lower layers be reprogrammed to the top instead of having to hold down space + fn? Or, is a toggle (not momentary) available to access the lower layers?
...This is an interesting application for layers. So you could even map the numbers to the regular home row using layers too and then just activate the layer and type away? Kinda like an 'excel lock' feature?
Poker II can toggle the PN layer (FN+right shift), so yes, it can do that, Pok3r has 4 layers that can be toggled, as can all the true customs.
This thread has convinced me to buy a Pok3r. I intend to remap the #s to the left on layer 2, and navigation and a few f-keys to the right. I would stay in layer 2 and switch to default when needed. I can optimize layer 3 for Excel. Layer 4 may be a 'test' layer.
Just like that :D
A small board like a 60% and 40% really NEEDS to be customisable. Some implementations of default layers may work for a good percentage of people, but definitely not all. The Planck even has "layer up" and "layer down" keys.