Thoughts on 60% vs 100% Keyboards

[Waateva]

I have the same issue of the position with full size keyboards, the main typing area is not exactly in front of me, the mouse is too far, those compromises are solved with a 60%, even the FC660 does not fit the bill.

Yes, indeed. Although I keep TKL boards in my rotation, the asymmetry throws me off, and the top-row F-keys along with the navigation island are largely wasted space for me. I am most comfortable using a 60%.

But the F-keys are obviously where you proudly display your artisans!

What artisans?

Whatever artisans you want!  Or none if you so desire.

[zslane]

If this thread is any indication of the direction mech keyboards are heading, I feel like I should stock up on ANSI 104s (and 108s) before they become extinct.

I prefer 100% keyboards. I don't need the numpad most of the time, but I like the look of it, and a TKL just looks "wrong" to my eyes. I also am not afflicted with such tiny workspaces that I need the space that the numpad takes up for anything else. Not even the mouse. The position of the mouse next to my 100% boards puts it exactly where the arm rests on my chair(s) position my hands anyway, so a TKL would cause my mousing arm/hand to be off the arm rest. That's bad juju.

Going even smaller than a 100% or TKL removes too many useful keys for real work. And I don't need portability; I'm not a student who needs to carry his or her world on his or her back. However, I find a Pok3r to be a nice match with my iPad, which I really only use (in terms of typing) for forum posts and the occasional e-mail. In such a limited operation context, I don't have a need for function keys or even the nav cluster apart from basic cursor control. And for cursor movement, I'm okay with FN+IJKL. But I could never be happy with a 60% on a desktop machine where I need to do real work, which in my case usually involves writing lots of C++ or Python code.

Has anyone ever done a survey/study that correlates keyboard layouts with the kinds of typing tasks performed on them?

Biggest disadvantage of 100% is the position of the typing area. It's way over to the left which means you're putting uneven tension and stresses into your arms / shoulders and increases the likelihood of the right wrist being angled badly during typing, which can lead to all kinds of wrist health problems down the line.

I use 60% and smaller exclusively and I work as a software developer (c#, c++, java, html, etc).

Okay, yeah, I see what you're saying. And it certainly makes sense.

Having said that, I've been "coping" with that disadvantage for 30+ years and have yet to develop any wrist health problems. I'm not sure how I've avoided it all these years, but weird stress angles (when not using the mouse) have not led to problems (yet).

Now, I could adjust to a 60% for software coding work too if I had to, but I'd have to unlearn typing movements burned into muscle memory over the course of three decades. There is absolutely no incentive to do that. It's like those alternate layouts like Dvorak and Colemak. I understand their proposed benefits, but at my age (and stage in my career) I have no need or interest in re-training my muscle memory. It's annoying enough as it is to try to get used to FN+IJKL for cursor movement on this Pok3r. I will probably never get used to FN-` for the backtick, and I'm grateful that I don't ever need it on my iPad anyway.

I remember back in the 80s when I made the transition from terminals (hooked up to mainframes), where my muscle memory expected the Ctrl key to be where Caps Lock is now, to personal computers where it was suddenly below the Shift key. That was awkward and annoying. I really don't want to go through that again just to save some space on my desktop.

But for folks who don't touch type or haven't been using a particular layout for 20 or 30 years, switching to something other than standard ANSI is probably no big deal. For them, downsizing offers more benefits than retaining a layout that's not necessarily embedded in muscle memory anyway.

[shibataken]

As a new owner of a poker 3, it still is taking me a while to get used to 60% but I love that I have so much extra space.  I still derp when I need to use arrow keys though.  Sometimes I think it is faster for me to move the cursor with my mouse instead of fumbling for arrow keys lol.

[Texchappy]

If I needed a numb pad I'd be tempted by something like the monarch that puts it on the left where it'd be more 'out of the way'.

[Oobly]

If this thread is any indication of the direction mech keyboards are heading, I feel like I should stock up on ANSI 104s (and 108s) before they become extinct.

I prefer 100% keyboards. I don't need the numpad most of the time, but I like the look of it, and a TKL just looks "wrong" to my eyes. I also am not afflicted with such tiny workspaces that I need the space that the numpad takes up for anything else. Not even the mouse. The position of the mouse next to my 100% boards puts it exactly where the arm rests on my chair(s) position my hands anyway, so a TKL would cause my mousing arm/hand to be off the arm rest. That's bad juju.

Going even smaller than a 100% or TKL removes too many useful keys for real work. And I don't need portability; I'm not a student who needs to carry his or her world on his or her back. However, I find a Pok3r to be a nice match with my iPad, which I really only use (in terms of typing) for forum posts and the occasional e-mail. In such a limited operation context, I don't have a need for function keys or even the nav cluster apart from basic cursor control. And for cursor movement, I'm okay with FN+IJKL. But I could never be happy with a 60% on a desktop machine where I need to do real work, which in my case usually involves writing lots of C++ or Python code.

Has anyone ever done a survey/study that correlates keyboard layouts with the kinds of typing tasks performed on them?

Biggest disadvantage of 100% is the position of the typing area. It's way over to the left which means you're putting uneven tension and stresses into your arms / shoulders and increases the likelihood of the right wrist being angled badly during typing, which can lead to all kinds of wrist health problems down the line.

I use 60% and smaller exclusively and I work as a software developer (c#, c++, java, html, etc).

Okay, yeah, I see what you're saying. And it certainly makes sense.

Having said that, I've been "coping" with that disadvantage for 30+ years and have yet to develop any wrist health problems. I'm not sure how I've avoided it all these years, but weird stress angles (when not using the mouse) have not led to problems (yet).

Now, I could adjust to a 60% for software coding work too if I had to, but I'd have to unlearn typing movements burned into muscle memory over the course of three decades. There is absolutely no incentive to do that. It's like those alternate layouts like Dvorak and Colemak. I understand their proposed benefits, but at my age (and stage in my career) I have no need or interest in re-training my muscle memory. It's annoying enough as it is to try to get used to FN+IJKL for cursor movement on this Pok3r. I will probably never get used to FN-` for the backtick, and I'm grateful that I don't ever need it on my iPad anyway.

I remember back in the 80s when I made the transition from terminals (hooked up to mainframes), where my muscle memory expected the Ctrl key to be where Caps Lock is now, to personal computers where it was suddenly below the Shift key. That was awkward and annoying. I really don't want to go through that again just to save some space on my desktop.

But for folks who don't touch type or haven't been using a particular layout for 20 or 30 years, switching to something other than standard ANSI is probably no big deal. For them, downsizing offers more benefits than retaining a layout that's not necessarily embedded in muscle memory anyway.

Understood, and that's a very good argument for not going smaller. I do find I am more efficient on a TKL, since the arrow and edit keys are burned into my muscle memory from my DOS days of coding in Turbo Pascal and that 20 or so years of familiarity is strong factor, one that made me hesitant to commit to a 60. I do think that for some a 60% is a step too far, for others a 40% is that step too far. For some, like yourself, even a TKL may be that step, if you use the number pad a lot.

In the end, a combination of ergonomics and aesthetics pushed me over the edge. I still miss my arrows and edits now and then, but overall it was worth it for me. I'm also getting one of these from Massdrop (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/magicforce-68-key-mini-mechanical-keyboard) to possibly use as a board for work. Not much larger than 60%, but even that little may prove too much. I like the FC660, but I prefer to have all standard keycap sizes.

[chroness]

I had only used a fullsize before and just received my very first 60% (a hhkb). It is taking a little bit of getting used to but so far I love the layout and appreciate the extra desk space that I get!

[zslane]

One of the more common sights at my place of employment is that of a Wacom tablet where a keyboard would be, with the keyboard above it (not hovering above, but on the desk between tablet and monitor stand). The depth of the keyboard is more of a "space consumption" factor than its width, and since Wacom users don't use a mouse, the numpad isn't interfering in any way. Of course, these users have virtually no use for the numpad or the navcluster, so a 60% would probably be perfect for them. Alas, our company would never spend that kind of money on keyboards.

[Niomosy]

I honestly think the argument of smaller keyboards for ergonomics is heavily dependent on each user.  I see a lot of argument on ergonomics via size but I'm honestly not the biggest proponent of this.

The main problem, for me, regarding size is that a decrease in size puts useful-to-me keys on another layer that requires the use of multiple keys.  That can often create more pain for my forearms than simply moving my hand to a single button somewhere on the keyboard. 

I could easily drop down to a 75% board and be fully functional.  Smaller than that and I'm really not gaining any ergonomic advantages while sacrificing heavily used keys (PgUp/PgDown get used a lot in web browsers, arrow keys get used a lot for Puppet and Ruby coding, function keys get used a decent amount, particularly Ctrl-F4 for closing tabs as I'm often hands on the keyboard and reading something on a site and alt-tabbing back to a shell.

At some point I may pick up a 75% board but I'm more interested in seeing how the final product of the Axios looks.  I'll keep dedicated function keys and likely be able to remap the brackets to places where they're still easily accessible.

[xondat]

I think for me 60% is always going to be prefered; all the 'missing' buttons are within two presses usually. I never really used the number pad too much so a TKL is my prefered at the minute but it's 80 > 60 > 100 for me, not tried a 40 or 75 etc.

I love the compactness of a 60% however, which is why I'm getting a Pok3r for Christmas.

[priyadi]

I used to hate 60%, but now I exclusively use my Infinity, even to the point of carrying it everywhere. I even setup a hotkey set up to disable my laptop's keyboard so I can safely put my Infinity on top without accidentally triggering the keys underneath. The reason for my change of heart is full programmability.

SpaceFN + arrows on home row is so much nicer than dedicated arrow keys. No two hands operation required, no awkward Fn presses required, and I don't have to move my fingers away from the home row, unless when I need to use the mouse. I can also program shift-Esc to output ~ to deal with my muscle memory, because I do a lot of command line and bash scripts. I can make the right shift, ctrl, win & menu keys to act as dedicated arrow keys, while still retaining their original functions at the same time.

If you hate 60% and all you have tried are Pokers and HHKBs, then you are missing all the fun 

[SamirD]

Well, I think I just made the leap into a tkl board.  I couldn't pass it up--$20 for a nib IBM 1397680 made 3-10-1993 with the original box.    It was like a gift from heaven.

I haven't hooked it up yet because it's like unpacking a new toy, but it's going to get interesting now...

[Niomosy]

If you hate 60% and all you have tried are Pokers and HHKBs, then you are missing all the fun 

Well, I'm certainly missing a lot of keys

[retrochick]

Well, I think I just made the leap into a tkl board.  I couldn't pass it up--$20 for a nib IBM 1397680 made 3-10-1993 with the original box.    It was like a gift from heaven.

I haven't hooked it up yet because it's like unpacking a new toy, but it's going to get interesting now...

Wow. You lucky ...... *&^*(%%&$^@!!! JK JK, congrats on the awesome score! 

[SamirD]

Well, I think I just made the leap into a tkl board.  I couldn't pass it up--$20 for a nib IBM 1397680 made 3-10-1993 with the original box.    It was like a gift from heaven.

I haven't hooked it up yet because it's like unpacking a new toy, but it's going to get interesting now...

Wow. You lucky ...... *&^*(%%&$^@!!! JK JK, congrats on the awesome score! 

I know!  I couldn't believe it!  After seeing all the tkl bs boards on here I was thinking if I was going to go smaller, that's the way I'd go, but boy that's expensive so I guess I'll stay full size--and then bam!  My jaw dropped to the floor when I first saw it.

I had no idea these had a built in numeric keypad like on laptop keyboards.  I'm sure there's a way of using shift or alt or ctrl to probably access them using a 'modifier' key without setting the numlock too.

[mszy52]

Wow i didnt expect this thread to get so much attention

[phosphoric]

love, love, LOVE my 60% board. never have to move my hands from the homerow for anything, especially with my caps lock converted into an fn key on my pok3r... so nice.

i use a full-size when i need a number pad for homework and for when i'm using my desktop computer, but i generally find myself swapping it out for my pok3r, anyway. i should also note that, as an accounting student, i dislike using the numbers above the alphas and prefer having a number pad for ANY sort of number data entry, even if it means i have to move my right hand off of the home row (which seems contradictory given the following), but i find that the utility and efficiency i get out of a number pad far outweighs the convenience of a number row above my fingers (which isn't even that convenient - i never learned to touch type the number row and i find it useless given the general availability of a number pad when i need one). when i figure out the wiring and find a place to cut the plate, i'm planning on converting the number pad on my aek ii into an external numpad so i have one that i can use with my pok3r - screw the navigation cluster!

i also find myself trying to use caps lock + i, j, k, l on my full-size board, and then sigh heavily when i realize i have to take my hand off of my keys to use the dedicated keys. i don't think i could live with a tkl... it just seems pointless when all the functions are available and in a much more ergonomic package in a 60%.

[Texchappy]

Has anybody found setups or other tips to help adjust to going 60%?

[dummytim]

Has anybody found setups or other tips to help adjust to going 60%?

I would say to just go with it. When I purchased my Poker 2, I had no idea what I was getting into. I have no regrets with that purchase so far.

It's easy due to the portability aspect if that's what you're looking for. I've also found that it gives me a lot more room to maneuver my mouse while playing CS. I rotate the keyboard out with my full size one pretty often, so I think you'd get used to it.

[ADFX_Pixy]

I started with a full size Ducky Shine 3 with Cherry MX Blues. I love the keyboard but I felt that it was too large. For my second keyboard I was going to get a Pok3r but instead, I got a Quickfire Stealth because I felt that I needed dedicated arrow keys, and I don't regret it. But now, I miss having the number pad. A keyboard doesn't feel complete if I don't have a number pad. I know that there are mechanical number pads I can get but having everything on one keyboard feels complete. It's weird.

[FuriousGeorge]

Has anybody found setups or other tips to help adjust to going 60%?

My suggestion would be to get something programmable. It's a lot easier when you can setup the layout the way you want. I've found that SpaceFN works great for me and I like it better than dedicated arrows for the most part.

[cogito_ergo_sum]

This may be a silly noob question about programmable 60% boards - can the lower layers be reprogrammed to the top instead of having to hold down space + fn? Or, is a toggle (not momentary) available to access the lower layers?

[zslane]

On a Pok3r, an alternate layer is akin to a "mode" of operation that you are in until you switch out of it. At any given time, you are either in the default layer, layer 2, layer 3, or layer 4. Being in a layer is modal, not momentary.

[ideus]

This may be a silly noob question about programmable 60% boards - can the lower layers be reprogrammed to the top instead of having to hold down space + fn? Or, is a toggle (not momentary) available to access the lower layers?

It depends on the actual programming approach the board has, regarding that, most commercial keyboards like the Pok3r, its previous versions and similar competitors are inherently limited to do that, but customs, like Face, GON and similar could do that very easily.

[jcoffin1981]

I  have a V60 and a Pok3r.  At first it was awkward not having a number pad and missing a few keys, but the 5 or 6 inches of desk real estate more than makes up  for it.  I don't have  any elbow pain either.  I've learned to  use the number row and like it better, except for the rare time I have to type a very long number.  To access t he number pad I had to look at the  board and move my hand, which was kind of annoying. 

[SamirD]

love, love, LOVE my 60% board. never have to move my hands from the homerow for anything, especially with my caps lock converted into an fn key on my pok3r... so nice.

i use a full-size when i need a number pad for homework and for when i'm using my desktop computer, but i generally find myself swapping it out for my pok3r, anyway. i should also note that, as an accounting student, i dislike using the numbers above the alphas and prefer having a number pad for ANY sort of number data entry, even if it means i have to move my right hand off of the home row (which seems contradictory given the following), but i find that the utility and efficiency i get out of a number pad far outweighs the convenience of a number row above my fingers (which isn't even that convenient - i never learned to touch type the number row and i find it useless given the general availability of a number pad when i need one). when i figure out the wiring and find a place to cut the plate, i'm planning on converting the number pad on my aek ii into an external numpad so i have one that i can use with my pok3r - screw the navigation cluster!

i also find myself trying to use caps lock + i, j, k, l on my full-size board, and then sigh heavily when i realize i have to take my hand off of my keys to use the dedicated keys. i don't think i could live with a tkl... it just seems pointless when all the functions are available and in a much more ergonomic package in a 60%.

Have you tried moving all your fingers to the number row to see if you can work the numbers that way?  I've been experimenting with it on and off, but really need to use a typing tutor to see if my hands can adjust to it.  The advantage is that you fingers wouldn't have to move almost at all for each number.

[phosphoric]

love, love, LOVE my 60% board. never have to move my hands from the homerow for anything, especially with my caps lock converted into an fn key on my pok3r... so nice.

i use a full-size when i need a number pad for homework and for when i'm using my desktop computer, but i generally find myself swapping it out for my pok3r, anyway. i should also note that, as an accounting student, i dislike using the numbers above the alphas and prefer having a number pad for ANY sort of number data entry, even if it means i have to move my right hand off of the home row (which seems contradictory given the following), but i find that the utility and efficiency i get out of a number pad far outweighs the convenience of a number row above my fingers (which isn't even that convenient - i never learned to touch type the number row and i find it useless given the general availability of a number pad when i need one). when i figure out the wiring and find a place to cut the plate, i'm planning on converting the number pad on my aek ii into an external numpad so i have one that i can use with my pok3r - screw the navigation cluster!

i also find myself trying to use caps lock + i, j, k, l on my full-size board, and then sigh heavily when i realize i have to take my hand off of my keys to use the dedicated keys. i don't think i could live with a tkl... it just seems pointless when all the functions are available and in a much more ergonomic package in a 60%.

Have you tried moving all your fingers to the number row to see if you can work the numbers that way?  I've been experimenting with it on and off, but really need to use a typing tutor to see if my hands can adjust to it.  The advantage is that you fingers wouldn't have to move almost at all for each number.

i've seen this argument before but when i'm doing extended sessions with number entry, i'm generally working in excel or tax software, so having on hand on tab and the other on the numpad is best. i need access to the *, /, +, -, and . symbols. on top of that, i find that the layout of the numpad is better than having all the numbers on a single row anyway

[Oobly]

love, love, LOVE my 60% board. never have to move my hands from the homerow for anything, especially with my caps lock converted into an fn key on my pok3r... so nice.

i use a full-size when i need a number pad for homework and for when i'm using my desktop computer, but i generally find myself swapping it out for my pok3r, anyway. i should also note that, as an accounting student, i dislike using the numbers above the alphas and prefer having a number pad for ANY sort of number data entry, even if it means i have to move my right hand off of the home row (which seems contradictory given the following), but i find that the utility and efficiency i get out of a number pad far outweighs the convenience of a number row above my fingers (which isn't even that convenient - i never learned to touch type the number row and i find it useless given the general availability of a number pad when i need one). when i figure out the wiring and find a place to cut the plate, i'm planning on converting the number pad on my aek ii into an external numpad so i have one that i can use with my pok3r - screw the navigation cluster!

i also find myself trying to use caps lock + i, j, k, l on my full-size board, and then sigh heavily when i realize i have to take my hand off of my keys to use the dedicated keys. i don't think i could live with a tkl... it just seems pointless when all the functions are available and in a much more ergonomic package in a 60%.

Have you tried moving all your fingers to the number row to see if you can work the numbers that way?  I've been experimenting with it on and off, but really need to use a typing tutor to see if my hands can adjust to it.  The advantage is that you fingers wouldn't have to move almost at all for each number.

i've seen this argument before but when i'm doing extended sessions with number entry, i'm generally working in excel or tax software, so having on hand on tab and the other on the numpad is best. i need access to the *, /, +, -, and . symbols. on top of that, i find that the layout of the numpad is better than having all the numbers on a single row anyway

A 60% with layers that can be toggled could work for you still. Toggle your "Excel" layer (that has 0 on spacebar and "." on Alt for example, with the other numbers and symbols in familiar spots above / around that) and off you go.

Or you can simply get used to hitting "Tab" with your left pinkie to change cells. You don't need a whole hand for a single key and using both hands for the numbers can be quicker than one. It's usually just a matter of what you're used to and whether what you have to do to get used to a 60% is worth the benefits to you, personally. Both the benefits and sacrifices are "personally weighted".

[SamirD]

love, love, LOVE my 60% board. never have to move my hands from the homerow for anything, especially with my caps lock converted into an fn key on my pok3r... so nice.

i use a full-size when i need a number pad for homework and for when i'm using my desktop computer, but i generally find myself swapping it out for my pok3r, anyway. i should also note that, as an accounting student, i dislike using the numbers above the alphas and prefer having a number pad for ANY sort of number data entry, even if it means i have to move my right hand off of the home row (which seems contradictory given the following), but i find that the utility and efficiency i get out of a number pad far outweighs the convenience of a number row above my fingers (which isn't even that convenient - i never learned to touch type the number row and i find it useless given the general availability of a number pad when i need one). when i figure out the wiring and find a place to cut the plate, i'm planning on converting the number pad on my aek ii into an external numpad so i have one that i can use with my pok3r - screw the navigation cluster!

i also find myself trying to use caps lock + i, j, k, l on my full-size board, and then sigh heavily when i realize i have to take my hand off of my keys to use the dedicated keys. i don't think i could live with a tkl... it just seems pointless when all the functions are available and in a much more ergonomic package in a 60%.

Have you tried moving all your fingers to the number row to see if you can work the numbers that way?  I've been experimenting with it on and off, but really need to use a typing tutor to see if my hands can adjust to it.  The advantage is that you fingers wouldn't have to move almost at all for each number.

i've seen this argument before but when i'm doing extended sessions with number entry, i'm generally working in excel or tax software, so having on hand on tab and the other on the numpad is best. i need access to the *, /, +, -, and . symbols. on top of that, i find that the layout of the numpad is better than having all the numbers on a single row anyway

I forgot about the mathmatic functions on the keypad that aren't as easily triggered on the number row.

One thing that may help even when using a numpad is that if you hold shift and press any of 2,4,6,8, they control your cursor and 7,9,1,3 are page up/down and home/end.  0 and .  when shifted are ins and del.  I recently remembered these after seeing the legends on my M and reading how Matias calls this a 'feature' on their full size boards.

[SamirD]

love, love, LOVE my 60% board. never have to move my hands from the homerow for anything, especially with my caps lock converted into an fn key on my pok3r... so nice.

i use a full-size when i need a number pad for homework and for when i'm using my desktop computer, but i generally find myself swapping it out for my pok3r, anyway. i should also note that, as an accounting student, i dislike using the numbers above the alphas and prefer having a number pad for ANY sort of number data entry, even if it means i have to move my right hand off of the home row (which seems contradictory given the following), but i find that the utility and efficiency i get out of a number pad far outweighs the convenience of a number row above my fingers (which isn't even that convenient - i never learned to touch type the number row and i find it useless given the general availability of a number pad when i need one). when i figure out the wiring and find a place to cut the plate, i'm planning on converting the number pad on my aek ii into an external numpad so i have one that i can use with my pok3r - screw the navigation cluster!

i also find myself trying to use caps lock + i, j, k, l on my full-size board, and then sigh heavily when i realize i have to take my hand off of my keys to use the dedicated keys. i don't think i could live with a tkl... it just seems pointless when all the functions are available and in a much more ergonomic package in a 60%.

Have you tried moving all your fingers to the number row to see if you can work the numbers that way?  I've been experimenting with it on and off, but really need to use a typing tutor to see if my hands can adjust to it.  The advantage is that you fingers wouldn't have to move almost at all for each number.

i've seen this argument before but when i'm doing extended sessions with number entry, i'm generally working in excel or tax software, so having on hand on tab and the other on the numpad is best. i need access to the *, /, +, -, and . symbols. on top of that, i find that the layout of the numpad is better than having all the numbers on a single row anyway

A 60% with layers that can be toggled could work for you still. Toggle your "Excel" layer (that has 0 on spacebar and "." on Alt for example, with the other numbers and symbols in familiar spots above / around that) and off you go.

Or you can simply get used to hitting "Tab" with your left pinkie to change cells. You don't need a whole hand for a single key and using both hands for the numbers can be quicker than one. It's usually just a matter of what you're used to and whether what you have to do to get used to a 60% is worth the benefits to you, personally. Both the benefits and sacrifices are "personally weighted".

This is an interesting application for layers.  So you could even map the numbers to the regular home row using layers too and then just activate the layer and type away?  Kinda like an 'excel lock' feature?

[cogito_ergo_sum]

This thread has convinced me to buy a Pok3r. I intend to remap the #s to the left on layer 2, and navigation and a few f-keys to the right. I would stay in layer 2 and switch to default when needed. I can optimize layer 3 for Excel. Layer 4 may be a 'test' layer.

[Infrared]

Personally I don't ever see myself going back to a 100% keyboard. The space it takes up just isn't worth it. I love my fc660c and I will hopefully like my new KUL ES-87 that I am going to switch swap to zealios. Im fine with using a seperate keypad on the left side of the keyboard anyway. Not that I have one or have a need for one. But if I do need one some day thats what I am going to do.

[dummytim]

Personally I don't ever see myself going back to a 100% keyboard. The space it takes up just isn't worth it. I love my fc660c and I will hopefully like my new KUL ES-87 that I am going to switch swap to zealios. Im fine with using a seperate keypad on the left side of the keyboard anyway. Not that I have one or have a need for one. But if I do need one some day thats what I am going to do.

I actually just swapped from a TKL back to a full board I haven't been using my Poker though. I think I will be using it a lot more in the next few days since I have an essay due soon. D:

[Niomosy]

Personally I don't ever see myself going back to a 100% keyboard. The space it takes up just isn't worth it. I love my fc660c and I will hopefully like my new KUL ES-87 that I am going to switch swap to zealios. Im fine with using a seperate keypad on the left side of the keyboard anyway. Not that I have one or have a need for one. But if I do need one some day thats what I am going to do.

Meanwhile, I'm hoping the GH-122 project starts back up again.  I'd pick up one of those battleships.

[Oobly]

This may be a silly noob question about programmable 60% boards - can the lower layers be reprogrammed to the top instead of having to hold down space + fn? Or, is a toggle (not momentary) available to access the lower layers?

...This is an interesting application for layers.  So you could even map the numbers to the regular home row using layers too and then just activate the layer and type away?  Kinda like an 'excel lock' feature?

Poker II can toggle the PN layer (FN+right shift), so yes, it can do that, Pok3r has 4 layers that can be toggled, as can all the true customs.

This thread has convinced me to buy a Pok3r. I intend to remap the #s to the left on layer 2, and navigation and a few f-keys to the right. I would stay in layer 2 and switch to default when needed. I can optimize layer 3 for Excel. Layer 4 may be a 'test' layer.

Just like that

A small board like a 60% and 40% really NEEDS to be customisable. Some implementations of default layers may work for a good percentage of people, but definitely not all. The Planck even has "layer up" and "layer down" keys.