Author Topic: Group Buy management software [discussion]  (Read 11143 times)

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Offline Matt3o

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Group Buy management software [discussion]
« on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 08:19:49 »
As many of you already know I've set up a little software to handle DSA Retro Group Buy because Google Forms is totally inadequate.

I've received a lot of feedback (and praise) about that software and I'd like to release it to the community. As it is now it is not ready for public consumption, the back-end especially lacks a lot of important features and I'm probably going to develop a new software from the ground up.

I'm here to ask for your feedback, wish-list, must-have for such a software.

I'm particularly interested in long time GB organizers' opinion. Which aspects are the most annoying to handle? What would be the life-saver features?

As an end user, what are you expecting when you place an order from a GB? What does make you nervous when you place an order?

Another aspect is GeekHack integration. How much integrated should it be? Should a GH account be mandatory? What about other communities then? Or maybe make GH integration optional?

Also, I'd like to know your ideas regarding covering costs of such a software/service. A service like this doesn't need a super-powerful server but I have to put it somewhere and that comes to a cost. Also, we need backups, so that would be 2 servers to start from.

As much as I'd like to give the software for free to anyone, it won't be free for me to host and develop. So I'm open to suggestions on this regards as well. We could make it free for no-profit (end-user to end-user) and ask a small fee to vendors. Or we could make it based on donations. Or I could ask a fixed small rate per order or a % on the overall GB. Or...

Well lots of questions, hope you could help me sort them out.
« Last Edit: Wed, 22 May 2013, 08:54:40 by Matt3o »

Offline SmallFry

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 08:21:59 »
Aggiejy's GB went very smooth as well, I think due to the pay now-caps later scheme. Integration or at least the option to run a GB with that scheme would be very good, IMO.
TL;DR Paypal API integration.

Offline Tym

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 08:23:18 »
Payment-wise you could add a certain percentage to every group-buy as a fee to make the whole thing run more efficiently; because of your software people will be getting their products quicker therefore a case could be made that they pay for the privilege.
unless they have some unforeseeable downside (like they're actually made of cream cheese cunningly disguised as ABS)


Offline Tym

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 08:23:48 »
Payment-wise you could add a certain percentage to every group-buy order as a fee to make the whole thing run more efficiently; because of your software people will be getting their products quicker therefore a case could be made that they pay for the privilege.
unless they have some unforeseeable downside (like they're actually made of cream cheese cunningly disguised as ABS)


Offline The_Beast

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 08:26:44 »
Making shipping labels, that was my biggest pains.


I did try asking people to comma separate values so that I could make a CSV to import into USPS and do batch shipping and it was moderately successful but I still had to edit a lot of peoples responses.


My favorite part of your software is that it updated me via email, confirmed my order and shipping address and then told me when it shipped.
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 08:30:08 »
I think in terms of payment, it would be fine to add a small % or fee to each order to the Group Buy. If you're willing to join the GB, you should be willing to help everyone out too and I think helping to pay for the software is a way of helping.

Offline Matt3o

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 09:02:50 »
paypal API integration requires a business paypal account (at least for 90% of the features). So if you want paypal integration but still be able to use the software without a business account, we would need two code bases.

Offline SmallFry

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 09:11:33 »
paypal API integration requires a business paypal account (at least for 90% of the features). So if you want paypal integration but still be able to use the software without a business account, we would need two code bases.
Well... that sucks. Nevermind I suppose.

Offline codyeatworld

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 09:17:39 »
What about aws and s3 for hosting? You can backup to s3 for pretty cheap.
edit: depending on the db, you can probably back that up there too.
« Last Edit: Wed, 22 May 2013, 09:19:28 by hellocodes »




Offline gliy

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 09:21:04 »
What about aws and s3 for hosting? You can backup to s3 for pretty cheap.
edit: depending on the db, you can probably back that up there too.

This is a great idea, although you might want to look into using RDS to store the information, its more fitting for if you want to update the data.

Offline codyeatworld

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 09:30:22 »
Yeah RDS would be way better! But just saying if you wanna be cheap!




Offline Krogenar

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 09:58:01 »
Quote
As an end user, what are you expecting when you place an order from a GB? What does make you nervous when you place an order?

The Retro DSA GB was my very first GB, and what made it a lot easier for me to get involved was making the 'kits' easy to view and understand. If this software is going to be useful, making those kits (and what's inside of each) modular is going to make it more useful for the organizer and the buyers. Wishlist: a database for each kind of keyboard out there (or all the major keyboards) so that a buyer could list enter their keyboard (i.e. Ducky 6565425SEwhatever, Poker, etc.) and the software could respond with the kits necessary to fit the entire 'board(s) -- with a warning to perform a visual check! I really scrutinized my 'boards to be sure that the keycaps would fit, and then I double- and triple-checked again! Maybe for people who are very, very familiar with the layouts this is not a serious issue, but I think this feature would get new people into groupbuys.

Suggestion: good boilerplate rules and conditions so that everyone goes into the GB with their eyes open. Such TOS items could include:

- shipping policy
- damaged goods policy
- keycaps don't fit perfectly
- agreement to pay more for shipping of replacements, etc. if necessary.

Some of this boilerplate policy is there to protect the organizer, and it should be modular or could be modified. This all goes back to managing expectations.

Quote
Another aspect is GeekHack integration. How much integrated should it be? Should a GH account be mandatory? What about other communities then? Or maybe make GH integration optional?

I'm a GHer, but I go to DT, and I'd hate to see this be something that only for any particular community. Just make it as flexible as possible; the more people who can become involved in a groupbuy, the better. There was an issue with the Retro DSA GB in which some people placed phony orders, or orders that could not be verified. Maybe add a feature to send a PM to that person's forum account for verification? Not sure how that would be programmed, but it would be a nice feature.

Quote
Also, I'd like to know your ideas regarding covering costs of such a software/service. A service like this doesn't need a super-powerful server but I have to put it somewhere and that comes to a cost. Also, we need backups, so that would be 2 servers to start from.

I don't think it should be free. If it's a feature-rich software that makes everyone's experience better, so why shouldn't the creator be rewarded? When Matt has a choice between hanging out with a bevy of Italian girlfriends fighting over which one gets to feed him grapes OR staring at PHP code for the software, there should be that niggling fear in his mind that maybe he should get off his duff and add more features to his software, because doing so will make him a bit more money. I vote for fear and profit.  :D

Quote
As much as I'd like to give the software for free to anyone, it won't be free for me to host and develop. So I'm open to suggestions on this regards as well. We could make it free for no-profit (end-user to end-user) and ask a small fee to vendors. Or we could make it based on donations. Or I could ask a fixed small rate per order or a % on the overall GB. Or...

I think that if you (Matt) are hosting the database and the software, then you should definitely make some sort of profit, because if you don't make a profit, how would a GB organizer be able to call up and complain to Matt when the server crashes and all the orders are lost? Charity makes for bad business. (Everyone who received a free, custom GH banner friom me, shut up right now. See? No good.) I think the best software would allow for the hoster of the software (Matt) to decide how he wants to get his profit; keysets, a percentage of each sale, a flat rate, or for free if Matt is feeling altruistic that day. Just make it as flexible as possible. Consider also, that not all GBs complete, some take a very long time, etc. -- maybe some sort of flat fee in the beginning is in order to prevent non-serious organizers from getting started?

Other wishes:

CG Renderings
I know this is a longshot, but Matt, you made a software bit that allows people to make color keyboard mockups -- if that could be passed to something like what kaporkle was able to do in that one thread, that I think would make it easier for potential buyers to make the leap. If I recall, kaporkle was not ready to do that, and the renders take hours to complete. Maybe if he got a flat rate for each rendering he would be more willing? At any rate, this is a wish, and leave space in the programming for my wish!  :)

Notifications
Don't take this the wrong way -- the Retro DSA GB is a great example of how to run a GB -- put it in the textbook under 'well done'. But -- when there was an issue with some of the larger keys (something that was discovered by Matt, because he had an early set sent to him so he could catch just such a problem) the notice of the problem (and it's swift solution) ended up buried in the thread. I think it would be beyond awesome if notices for changes, errata, etc. could automatically be sent out to GB members. All the information for the GB should be exportable into a BB-code friendly report that can be cut/pasted into the GB's initial forum post. So there's no way people don't know what's going on.

User Tools
Maybe make it so that when a buyer logs into the system, they can update their shipping information. And put lots of error-checking in the fields, to catch the dreaded umlats.

Organizer Reports
I think it would be awesome if the organizer could report (and export) some of the GB's statistics. For example: buyers by region, percentage paid up, most popular kits, etc. Report the number of a kit necessary to make the next buying level, etc. Ooh, just had a crazy idea -- allow people to set the price level that they would be willing to buy at, rather than only what they are willing to buy, right now. Example: I know that for a certain GB I will be getting Kit 1, and Kit 2, for sure. I would like to have Kit 5, but ONLY if it reaches as certain price level. If the software could record this decision (Krog will buy Kit 3 if it reaches price level x) then that could be reported! Then people could see -- okay, we need 10 more people to buy Kit 3, but 6 people have already committed to buying at that level -- so technically we only need 4 more people. See what I'm saying? That might help GBs move up pricing tiers -- by having a sort of 'tier wish price'. This would only apply to those more exotic kits, like ISO (blocks incoming rotten fruits and vegetables) -- only people who have committed to the GB already could do this. Otherwise everyone would set the base kits to 'when it reaches a certain point' and would push people to be overly cautious.

TL;DR version:

- feature that allows user to select from database of known keyboards and retun what kits they MUST purchase in order to fit keyboard(s).
- modular, modifiable boilerplate policies for returns, damaged goods, payments, etc. user musts acknowledge and accept.
- pay Matt for the service in a flexible way (keyset, percentage of sales, wampum bucks, etc.) SHOULD NOT BE FREE.
- CG rendering capability, if possible some day.
- flexible notifications to GB members, export to BB-code for forum posting.
- Tier Wish Pricing for people who are already invested in the GB's main kits, to other kits reach higher tiers.
« Last Edit: Wed, 22 May 2013, 10:16:55 by Krogenar »
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Offline SmallFry

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 10:24:28 »
So have a MassDrop like buying scheme?

Offline Matt3o

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 10:48:29 »
paypal API integration requires a business paypal account (at least for 90% of the features). So if you want paypal integration but still be able to use the software without a business account, we would need two code bases.
Well... that sucks. Nevermind I suppose.

no actually I think you touched an nerve here. I believe both scenarios must be handled.

What about aws and s3 for hosting? You can backup to s3 for pretty cheap.
edit: depending on the db, you can probably back that up there too.

I'm not a big fan of the "cloud", it's all nice until the day you get flooded and you receive a funny $2000 invoice in your email (real story). But all in all, the costs of the hardware is not impossible. I guess it could be around $100/m, probably less at the very beginning. Of course the HW or VM must be set up and maintained. Which takes time.

Wishlist: a database for each kind of keyboard out there (or all the major keyboards) so that a buyer could list enter their keyboard (i.e. Ducky 6565425SEwhatever, Poker, etc.) and the software could respond with the kits necessary to fit the entire 'board(s) -- with a warning to perform a visual check!

This would be great, but really hard to do. It means that the software needs to know all keycap sizes available. Feasible, but that's definitely something for v2.0.

Also remember that there are not just GB for keycaps.

Suggestion: good boilerplate rules and conditions so that everyone goes into the GB with their eyes open. Such TOS items could include:

- shipping policy
- damaged goods policy
- keycaps don't fit perfectly
- agreement to pay more for shipping of replacements, etc. if necessary.

This is a really good suggestion :)

I'm a GHer, but I go to DT, and I'd hate to see this be something that only for any particular community. Just make it as flexible as possible; the more people who can become involved in a groupbuy, the better. There was an issue with the Retro DSA GB in which some people placed phony orders, or orders that could not be verified. Maybe add a feature to send a PM to that person's forum account for verification? Not sure how that would be programmed, but it would be a nice feature.

We could set up a system like heatware where users get/lose points for each group buy they participate in. So for example if you order 100 kits but you don't pay you end up with a very bad reputation and the GB organizer could ban you off.

Locking to a community such as GH would be relatively easy, but the drawback is of course is that you'd end up with a lot of 1-posts users who sign up just to place an order.

When Matt has a choice between hanging out with a bevy of Italian girlfriends fighting over which one gets to feed him grapes OR staring at PHP code for the software, there should be that niggling fear in his mind that maybe he should get off his duff and add more features to his software, because doing so will make him a bit more money. I vote for fear and profit.  :D

LOL! I'll let you know what my wife has to say about that :)

Consider also, that not all GBs complete, some take a very long time, etc. -- maybe some sort of flat fee in the beginning is in order to prevent non-serious organizers from getting started?

This is a good point. What if a GB takes 2 years (*cough*round 4*cough*)? Or if it doesn't complete?

maybe we could start with a closed beta where I hand pick the GB organizers based on their backlog on GH or DT.

CG Renderings
I know this is a longshot, but Matt, you made a software bit that allows people to make color keyboard mockups -- if that could be passed to something like what kaporkle was able to do in that one thread, that I think would make it easier for potential buyers to make the leap. If I recall, kaporkle was not ready to do that, and the renders take hours to complete. Maybe if he got a flat rate for each rendering he would be more willing? At any rate, this is a wish, and leave space in the programming for my wish!  :)

this would be totally feasible and it's something that I was already considering... for v2.0 :)

Notifications
Don't take this the wrong way -- the Retro DSA GB is a great example of how to run a GB -- put it in the textbook under 'well done'. But -- when there was an issue with some of the larger keys (something that was discovered by Matt, because he had an early set sent to him so he could catch just such a problem) the notice of the problem (and it's swift solution) ended up buried in the thread. I think it would be beyond awesome if notices for changes, errata, etc. could automatically be sent out to GB members. All the information for the GB should be exportable into a BB-code friendly report that can be cut/pasted into the GB's initial forum post. So there's no way people don't know what's going on.

That would be partially solved by a kind of "GH Log" hosted on the website (not on the forum), where the organizer can post all news regarding the GB. Of course email notifications aplenty!

User Tools
Maybe make it so that when a buyer logs into the system, they can update their shipping information. And put lots of error-checking in the fields, to catch the dreaded umlats.

noted.

Organizer Reports
I think it would be awesome if the organizer could report (and export) some of the GB's statistics. For example: buyers by region, percentage paid up, most popular kits, etc. Report the number of a kit necessary to make the next buying level, etc.

absolutely. all the stats, reports, pie charts we could think of will be implemented. Export in CSV of any info at any given time is also a must have.

- Tier Wish Pricing for people who are already invested in the GB's main kits, to other kits reach higher tiers.

mmmh... this is something I would have to ponder about...

thanks for your report! really appreciated and you gave me a couple of nice ideas too.

So have a MassDrop like buying scheme?

which is...

Offline SmallFry

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 11:11:26 »
The MD buying scheme is invest at a certain price tier etc.

Offline Krogenar

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 11:29:49 »
Wishlist: a database for each kind of keyboard out there (or all the major keyboards) so that a buyer could list enter their keyboard (i.e. Ducky 6565425SEwhatever, Poker, etc.) and the software could respond with the kits necessary to fit the entire 'board(s) -- with a warning to perform a visual check!

This would be great, but really hard to do. It means that the software needs to know all keycap sizes available. Feasible, but that's definitely something for v2.0.

Also remember that there are not just GB for keycaps.

That's a very good point -- there are cases, keycap pullers, cables, etc. Just leave room for this kind of 'plugin' in the initial design!

Quote from: Matteo
I'm a GHer, but I go to DT, and I'd hate to see this be something that only for any particular community. Just make it as flexible as possible; the more people who can become involved in a groupbuy, the better. There was an issue with the Retro DSA GB in which some people placed phony orders, or orders that could not be verified. Maybe add a feature to send a PM to that person's forum account for verification? Not sure how that would be programmed, but it would be a nice feature.

We could set up a system like heatware where users get/lose points for each group buy they participate in. So for example if you order 100 kits but you don't pay you end up with a very bad reputation and the GB organizer could ban you off.

Locking to a community such as GH would be relatively easy, but the drawback is of course is that you'd end up with a lot of 1-posts users who sign up just to place an order.

What's to prevent someone from logging into your software under an existing forum member's name, ordering a small amount, and then doing that over and over again until the GB is riddled throughout with fake orders, in protest of your wanting to earn a profit from the software? What then? All someone would have to do is look through the forum's user list and find someone with, say, 150 posts but hasn't posted in six months. There's the issue of verification. I think it should be somehow tied into PayPal; piggyback off their security. In order for me to buy into ANY groupbuy on your system would require a $2.00 paypal fee up front, so you know they at least have a somewhat valid account. That would cut down on people trying to screw up the system. Or, an alternate method -- you can export all the forum names, and the forum in which it exists, and then PM each person for verification. No verification, no order allowed. The verification PM could say, "Please verify that you have joined XXX groupbuy."

Quote from: Matt
When Matt has a choice between hanging out with a bevy of Italian girlfriends fighting over which one gets to feed him grapes OR staring at PHP code for the software, there should be that niggling fear in his mind that maybe he should get off his duff and add more features to his software, because doing so will make him a bit more money. I vote for fear and profit.  :D

LOL! I'll let you know what my wife has to say about that :)

Does she want you to do it for free? I didn't think so.

Quote from: Matt
Consider also, that not all GBs complete, some take a very long time, etc. -- maybe some sort of flat fee in the beginning is in order to prevent non-serious organizers from getting started?

This is a good point. What if a GB takes 2 years (*cough*round 4*cough*)? Or if it doesn't complete?

maybe we could start with a closed beta where I hand pick the GB organizers based on their backlog on GH or DT.

Plan for failure -- there should be some way to export all the relevant data out of the system in the event of a crash, failure, or a decision to eject from the system, for whatever reason. Also, consider, Matt, what your role in all this is going to be. Are you going to allow anyone to use the system, or are you going to retain the right to refuse some people. I know that sounds negative, but limit your own liability. I very much agree that you should beta with some known GB organizers. And one rookie. Experienced hands are good and all, and can weather the shocks of a new system, but rookies make instructive mistakes that experts will not make, so throw a rookie into it. A rookie without any sharp edges, though.

Quote from: Matt
- Tier Wish Pricing for people who are already invested in the GB's main kits, to other kits reach higher tiers.

mmmh... this is something I would have to ponder about...

Think of it as a list of 'fence-sitters' who would like to buy, but are 'waiting' for the price break. If they can commit to buying (for certain) once the kit reaches that level, then once other people make the jump, their orders can be immediately added. Hrm... that could be problematic because it disincentivizes an immediate decision. Well, I did say it was crazy.

But speaking of incentives, maybe think of some ways to incentivize quick decision-makers. Could organizers offer the first 50 people to sign up for a groupbuy a special keycap? I don't know, something to think about.

Quote from: Matt
thanks for your report! really appreciated and you gave me a couple of nice ideas too.

You're very welcome, Matt. Thanks for listening, and I hope this software helps future groupbuys -- and pads out your wallet in the process.

(I just try to irk as many socialists as possible, whenever possible.)
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Offline alaricljs

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 11:35:45 »
Ah, socialists... always there until I have bills to pay.

Just wanted to throw in my 2cents worth of way to go Matt3o. 

I think the key point in this whole thing is security from the perspective of both the buyers and the organizer.  Need to make sure no one but the actual buyer can modify their order once they have placed it and of course validated that they are who they claim to be.  Also need to make sure the organizer can't be scammed or overworked by bogus orders.
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Offline Krogenar

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 11:42:09 »
Ah, socialists... always there until I have bills to pay.

Just wanted to throw in my 2cents worth of way to go Matt3o. 

I think the key point in this whole thing is security from the perspective of both the buyers and the organizer.  Need to make sure no one but the actual buyer can modify their order once they have placed it and of course validated that they are who they claim to be.  Also need to make sure the organizer can't be scammed or overworked by bogus orders.

I think that would mean buyers and organizers must have a password. Any more features and Matt's software will be a forum in it's own right!

I just had another idea! Or a question, rather -- would it be possible (feasible, or worthwhile) to allow existing groupbuys into your system? Imagine some poor dope is trying to manage it all in Excel, fighting with Paypal, etc. (just picture one of those 'ordinary tools just don't work' videos from 'As Seen on TV')...



It would be really nice to import all that information into your system.
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Quote from: Samuel Adams
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Offline metalliqaz

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 12:11:03 »
Feature creep kills projects.  The system you have worked great.  Just get it packaged up nice and go from there.

Offline Matt3o

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 12:19:19 »
While I agree that we should start small and release soon, we definitely miss some important features. Fist of all login/registration of GB organizers and users.

I just had another idea! Or a question, rather -- would it be possible (feasible, or worthwhile) to allow existing groupbuys into your system?

Yes, import (and export) of data should be possible. So an existing GB could take advantage of the system.

PS: website name?

Offline tjcaustin

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 12:21:32 »
Ah, socialists... always there until I have bills to pay.

Just wanted to throw in my 2cents worth of way to go Matt3o. 

I think the key point in this whole thing is security from the perspective of both the buyers and the organizer.  Need to make sure no one but the actual buyer can modify their order once they have placed it and of course validated that they are who they claim to be.  Also need to make sure the organizer can't be scammed or overworked by bogus orders.

I think that would mean buyers and organizers must have a password. Any more features and Matt's software will be a forum in it's own right!

I just had another idea! Or a question, rather -- would it be possible (feasible, or worthwhile) to allow existing groupbuys into your system? Imagine some poor dope is trying to manage it all in Excel, fighting with Paypal, etc. (just picture one of those 'ordinary tools just don't work' videos from 'As Seen on TV')...

(Attachment Link)

It would be really nice to import all that information into your system.

You mean like how like nearly every other group buy ever went down?

Making shipping labels, that was my biggest pains.


I did try asking people to comma separate values so that I could make a CSV to import into USPS and do batch shipping and it was moderately successful but I still had to edit a lot of peoples responses.


My favorite part of your software is that it updated me via email, confirmed my order and shipping address and then told me when it shipped.

EFFING THIS.

If there's any way to integrate shipping label generation or a way to collate it into a .csv file or however stamps.com imports addresses, that would be all kinds of spectacular.  Especially if it had a reference to an order number.

While I agree that we should start small and release soon, we definitely miss some important features. Fist of all login/registration of GB organizers and users.

I just had another idea! Or a question, rather -- would it be possible (feasible, or worthwhile) to allow existing groupbuys into your system?

Yes, import (and export) of data should be possible. So an existing GB could take advantage of the system.

PS: website name?

KlaxonKustoms.org, duh.

Offline Tym

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 12:28:33 »
Group-Buys.com is free currently.
unless they have some unforeseeable downside (like they're actually made of cream cheese cunningly disguised as ABS)


Offline Matt3o

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 12:43:06 »
Okay, this is what v0.1 should have (in random order):

- login of buyers and GB organizers
- buyers can review and modify their orders and shipping address at any given time until GB organizer freezes the GB. Once frozen the orders are read only and can be modified by the organizer only
- all data can be exported in CSV format
- print of packing lists and possibly labels
- data can be imported or manually inserted into the system by the GB organizer
- tiers updated in real-time (you can see on the fly what people are doing)
- automatically choose the best tier based on # of orders (eg: the system suggests to buy 1 more set to reach a higher tier and get a better price)
- paypal integration (as much as possible)
- GB progress bar, so you always know what stage your order is at
- GB LOG where the organizer can post news and updates
- clear TOS

Everything else is for future release I guess.
- make nice mockups, just give ABS or PBT color codes and the system makes a preview for you
- alternative payment gateways (stripe? bank transfer? paymill? braintree?)

I was thinking that we could ask a very small upfront payment to each buyer (like $2) to be able to order. That amount is then subtracted to the final price, but it helps to 1) detect fake paypal accounts 2) motivate the buyer to actually finalize the order. What do you think?
« Last Edit: Wed, 22 May 2013, 12:48:02 by Matt3o »

Offline gliy

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 12:44:02 »
From a security standpoint it would offer decent protection to just append an underscore and their zipcode ie.
ie my order could be modified by using gliy_91201.

Also what language were you considering?

Offline pasph

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 12:44:40 »
Obviously if you plan to store in your system personal data (name, email, address etc) you have to comply with the rules on privacy of the country that host that system
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 12:46:56 »
I think the upfront payment is more than fair matt30.

Offline tjcaustin

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 12:47:55 »
Oh, on the payment options, keep in mind that SP only takes like checks and paypal.  I'm sure they take credit cards, too, but yeah, the money has to get to them somehow as well.

Offline pasph

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 12:48:24 »
I was thinking that we could ask a very small upfront payment to each buyer (like $2) to be able to order. That amount is then subtracted to the final price, but it help to 1) detect fake paypal accounts 2) motivate the buyer to actually finalize the order. What do you think?


So if one change his mind he lost $2 (+paypal fee+ maybe infamous paypal change rate)?
"There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life"

Offline Matt3o

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 12:52:36 »
I think the upfront payment is more than fair matt30.

yes, it could be actually optional (the organizer decide if he wants it or not). Problem is if the GB doesn't finalize. In that case you have to give money back to all buyers (minus paypal fees)

I was thinking that we could ask a very small upfront payment to each buyer (like $2) to be able to order. That amount is then subtracted to the final price, but it help to 1) detect fake paypal accounts 2) motivate the buyer to actually finalize the order. What do you think?


So if one change his mind he lost $2 (+paypal fee+ maybe infamous paypal change rate)?

No, he lost "just" the paypal fees. And actually this could be enforced only for the first order you place.

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 13:02:44 »
Those are all group buy options and should be decided by the organizer, not the low level software.

Offline Krogenar

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 13:45:09 »
Nightmare scenario time!


Some evil, evil person uses Matt's software to put together a fake (or real) groupbuy, and then it all falls apart and they either run off with the money (their evil plan all along) or they just vanish, fumble, don't deliver, take a long time to give the money back, etc., etc. -- everyone who was hoping to buy is very, very angry. Where would Matt's responsibility lie in all that? I think it should be nil, and it should laid out in black and white that Matt's not responsible for the actions of groupbuy organizers. This is especially important if all the security features are going to be 'optional' -- which I think they should be. So a TOS that states this is crucial.
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Quote from: Samuel Adams
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

Offline pasph

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 14:53:47 »
The point is not the sw but the service=sw+site, hosting a fraud makes you liable?
I don't think so.
"There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life"

Offline Krogenar

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 14:56:06 »
The point is not the sw but the service=sw+site, hosting a fraud makes you liable?
I don't think so.

I agree with you completely, but when people are mad, they'll blame anyone.
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Quote from: Samuel Adams
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

Offline Matt3o

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 16:45:02 »
this is a very interesting point.

are torrent trackers illegal even though they don't actually host files?

is a fileupload service illegal even though it has no control over what people actually upload?

recent events prove that a service can be considered guilty of what people do with it, TOS or not. So definitely this is something that should be taken seriously.

that being said what we are offering to people is a very sophisticated "shopping cart"... so as long as you do your best to keep it sane I see no big issues here.

while the security on the users can be established by the gb organizer, we probably need to enforce some kind of security on the gb organizer. (eg: one time subscription fee to join to verify identity through paypal or hand pick vendors or I don't know)

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 16:51:32 »
Uhm, what?  Would you also hold Apache, Linux, MySQL, and PHP writers liable for fraudulent websites?  OF COURSE NOT.  Meaningless to discuss.  He's not running services, hes releasing a tool.

Offline Matt3o

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 16:54:33 »
well actually it's a tool as a service... but I agree, it shouldn't be a problem.
« Last Edit: Wed, 22 May 2013, 16:56:34 by Matt3o »

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 17:00:04 »
You're going to host it and support it?

Offline pasph

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 17:00:19 »
It's like ebay
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #38 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 17:07:21 »
As one that has ran a few quite larger buys now, and intends to keep doing them...
I need a nice spreadsheet result to see who ordered what, and what all the combined totals for that option are (google docs does this fine for me now for the most part). I would like a way for the ordering party to view and edit their order at any time (google docs mostly fails for this without a huge amount of work to set things up).
Wishlist feature would be a way to generate an invoice and have it paid directly to my bank account, thus eliminating the bull**** that is paypal.

Offline Matt3o

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 23 May 2013, 02:27:46 »
You're going to host it and support it?

host yes. support... well... not so much :)

Wishlist feature would be a way to generate an invoice and have it paid directly to my bank account, thus eliminating the bull**** that is paypal.

you mean by bank transfer? printing an invoice would be trivial

Offline Krogenar

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 27 June 2013, 09:54:24 »
After watching the DSA groupbuy winding down, maybe it would be a good idea to include some tool(s) to help organizers 'wind down' the groupbuy? Maybe a link for users to signify that they received their orders in good order, or to notify the organizers that a key was missing, etc.? Maybe a nice feature would be a way to 'close the books' in some way? After everyone has received their orders (and notified the system) they have 1 week to notify of error, and then the order is considered closed?
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Quote from: Samuel Adams
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

Offline Matt3o

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 28 June 2013, 01:53:57 »
After watching the DSA groupbuy winding down, maybe it would be a good idea to include some tool(s) to help organizers 'wind down' the groupbuy? Maybe a link for users to signify that they received their orders in good order, or to notify the organizers that a key was missing, etc.? Maybe a nice feature would be a way to 'close the books' in some way? After everyone has received their orders (and notified the system) they have 1 week to notify of error, and then the order is considered closed?

I thought at something like that but I think that only a minority would take the time to update their records. Also tracking is not always reliable so we can't use it. But a system to handle sorting errors would be nice nonetheless.

Offline domoaligato

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #42 on: Mon, 29 July 2013, 11:11:23 »
paypal API integration requires a business paypal account (at least for 90% of the features). So if you want paypal integration but still be able to use the software without a business account, we would need two code bases.

I think this is a good idea. I do not understand why it would take 2 code bases. couldn't the site have a question when you sign up that asks if you have a business or personal paypal account and use a different function based on whichever account type you have?

if you do not have a business account you just do not get those features.

Offline Matt3o

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #43 on: Mon, 29 July 2013, 11:43:50 »
paypal API integration requires a business paypal account (at least for 90% of the features). So if you want paypal integration but still be able to use the software without a business account, we would need two code bases.

I think this is a good idea. I do not understand why it would take 2 code bases. couldn't the site have a question when you sign up that asks if you have a business or personal paypal account and use a different function based on whichever account type you have?

if you do not have a business account you just do not get those features.

personal and business features have pretty different APIs (actually, no real API for personal).

Offline domoaligato

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #44 on: Mon, 29 July 2013, 12:13:11 »
All of the larger group buys have to be ran by people with business accounts anyway.
small group buys could be performed easily without the web application.

Offline Matt3o

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Re: Group Buy management software [discussion]
« Reply #45 on: Mon, 29 July 2013, 12:17:25 »
All of the larger group buys have to be ran by people with business accounts anyway.
small group buys could be performed easily without the web application.

agreed!