Building my first keyboard! Need a spot of help please!

[Xarmydis]

I posted this in the main keyboard forums, but I'm realizing this might be a more appropriate place to have it:

So, I've decided that the route that I want to take is to build my own keyboard. I have a ducky shine v1 (blues) that I got a few years ago, which I adore as my first foray into the world of Mech boards, but I've grown.   

Here are the things I'm trying to figure out before I get down to business:

Size:
I want a 60% board, ANSI layout. All there is to it!

Programmability:
I'm looking for something that I can reprogram as my needs see fit. I've never dealt with hardware programming, but I am a programmer by trade, so I'm not too worried. Figuring out which teensy/controller to use is what's kind of scaring me.

I think I've read that most people use the Teensy++, but would there be any issue with me going for the 3.1? Cheaper and newer.

Plate:
I want me a plate. I like the sturdiness and rigidity accompanied by a plate, though I understand it ~will~ restrict my access to the switches if I feel like replacing them. It'll require desoldering, etc. etc.

Case:
I got no idea what to look for in terms of a case. Just gonna save time and leave it at that, if anyone has basic recommendations, I'd appreciate it.

Switches:
The blues, while fun, are too light and much too loud. I love tactility, it gives me that tingly feeling like when Mr. Nelson from next door used to babysit me. 

I've been thinking about Cherry MX whites--heavier than blues/as heavy as greens, tactile, and supposedly softer. Can anyone confirm how much softer they are (in volume) to blues/greens?

Cherry MX tactile grey. Heavy, tactile, supposedly soft. Thoughts?

Cherry MX clears--they're as light as blues, but they get a LOT heavier supposedly after they actuate. An interesting idea.

Cherry MX clicky grey. These appear to be extremely heavy--is this just idiotic to use for a keyboard outside of just a spacebar? Also, if they're as noisy as the others, I won't waste my time.

Keycaps

To be honest, these aren't hard to find, but as someone who has never had PBT keycaps, should I make the jump? Or ABS doubleshots? Or what?

I appreciate any help I can get, or if there is anything I'm missing. I'm a simple man who just wants a keyboard to call my very own

[adventurepoop]

Teensy ++ not needed for 60% afaik, 3.0 won't work because of arm and not act I think. Soarers controller worked fine with teensy 2.0 for me.

[jacobolus]

I recommend a Teensy 2.0. The Teensy 3.0/3.1 is a different CPU architecture, so many of the popular open source firmwares won’t work on it. (But with that said, you can certainly get a Teensy 3.1 to do what you want, if you’re willing to put in some programming effort.)

The blues, while fun, are too light and much too loud. I love tactility, it gives me that tingly feeling

In general, Cherry MX switches are less tactile than many alternatives. Have you tried Alps switches? If you want something less loud than MX blue, I would give orange or salmon Alps (e.g. from an old Apple M0115/M0116) or quiet Matias switches a shot. New Matias switches can be bought for pretty reasonable prices http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=478 or $60/200 shipped directly from Matias http://matias.ca/order/

To be honest, [keycaps] aren't hard to find, but as someone who has never had PBT keycaps, should I make the jump? Or ABS doubleshots? Or what?

Thicker keycaps do often feel noticeably nicer; I like both medium-to-thick ABS double-shot caps and medium-to-thick PBT. On a clicky switch (or at bottom out) PBT will make a deeper sound than ABS will. PBT doesn’t wear as easily, so the texture on the surface will last longer.

[ProCarpet]

Case:
I got no idea what to look for in terms of a case. Just gonna save time and leave it at that, if anyone has basic recommendations, I'd appreciate it.

Do you want to do it yourself?
If yes you need to handle a CAD programm (Computer aided design). And then you need if you want to build it out of metal acces to a milling machine and also the knowledge to programm/use one or a friend who can do this for you.
What definitly gona be easyer is making it with a 3D printer but this will mostlikley ugly if you make it out of plastic and metal printers also dont deliver the nicest products.
There is also the possibility to make it from different plates (any material)  which you can lasercut/watercut. Or make it from wood but you need some skills there to.

hope it helped you

[Zekromtor]

I'm with jacobolus - anyone who is making their own should give the matias switches a try. You are likely to prefer them to cherries. Getting keycaps is the only issue, because it's hard as hell.

[Xarmydis]

Case:
I got no idea what to look for in terms of a case. Just gonna save time and leave it at that, if anyone has basic recommendations, I'd appreciate it.

Do you want to do it yourself?
If yes you need to handle a CAD programm (Computer aided design). And then you need if you want to build it out of metal acces to a milling machine and also the knowledge to programm/use one or a friend who can do this for you.
What definitly gona be easyer is making it with a 3D printer but this will mostlikley ugly if you make it out of plastic and metal printers also dont deliver the nicest products.
There is also the possibility to make it from different plates (any material)  which you can lasercut/watercut. Or make it from wood but you need some skills there to.

hope it helped you

I appreciate the advice! But as someone who does not want to actually make a case himself (I don't have the tools, never used CAD, nor know anyone who fits the previous description), I'd honestly rather just purchase one.  Thoughts on what to do?

And I can actually try Matias Alps keyboards locally, so I'm gonna go do that later today I think! Thanks for the advice!

[vvp]

I'm with jacobolus - anyone who is making their own should give the matias switches a try. You are likely to prefer them to cherries. Getting keycaps is the only issue, because it's hard as hell.

I considered them but without keycaps I decided it is not worth it. Matias should make their switches with Cherry MX stem.

[Oobly]

My recommendations:

If you don't mind sacrificing the Shine, you can make the plate for your 60% from that (or any cheap plate mounted Cherry MX board that also has plate mounted stabilisers). Just cut it down to size, but keep it big enough to trim when fitting to the case (see later in my post why). You could also buy a GH60 plate or other custom plate, but then you have to make sure it supports plate mounted stabilisers and you may have to glue some switches in place if the plate is "universal" (ie allows different switch positions).

For a controller, the Teensy2.0 is great. There are already a bunch of open source and closed source keyboard firmwares for it, so you can try a few and if none fits your requirements perfectly you can quite easily modify the closest one to suit. It has enough IO pins for a few different wiring options, too. You can hand wire the switch and diode matrix and mount the Teensy to the case. It also fits quite nicely next to the spacebar switch if the case you choose limits the space for mounting a controller.

I like MX Clears, but switches are really a personal preference.

For a case, any Poker, Pure, GH60 or Poker II compatible case will do. There are quite a few available, in plastic and metal. You can use some pieces of metal tube as standoffs and long screws to mount the plate to the case. Just drill holes on the plate in the matching positions. You can then file the edges of the plate so it fits nice and snug. You can adjust the height of the standoffs / screws to give you enough space underneath for mounting the Teensy in a good spot.

For keycaps, GMK Dolch thick doubleshot ABS    Group buy deadline ends very soon, follow the link in my sig. Any good thick caps will feel nice, but really high quality caps in Cherry profile are what I recommend most. My favourite material is POM, but PBT and ABS are fine, too. The profile, thickness and quality of the caps matters more to me than the material.

[agodinhost]

Size:
I want a 60% board, ANSI layout. All there is to it!

GH60?

Programmability:
I'm looking for something that I can reprogram as my needs see fit. I've never dealt with hardware programming, but I am a programmer by trade, so I'm not too worried. Figuring out which teensy/controller to use is what's kind of scaring me.

I think I've read that most people use the Teensy++, but would there be any issue with me going for the 3.1? Cheaper and newer.

You could try the arduino micro - it is cheaper and you can find it on ebay for 6 or 7 bucks each. It is almost one teensy with a different bootloader (it does not matter for you I think)

Plate:
I want me a plate. I like the sturdiness and rigidity accompanied by a plate, though I understand it ~will~ restrict my access to the switches if I feel like replacing them. It'll require desoldering, etc. etc.

Yup, you do need to choose - a plate make your life harder if you need to change one diode or anything else below the plate (not the switches - normally they can be replaced easily). You just need to be sure that the components that are prone to fail are going to be in one easy access place otherwise you would have to desolder all your switches to fix them.

Case:
I got no idea what to look for in terms of a case. Just gonna save time and leave it at that, if anyone has basic recommendations, I'd appreciate it.

The PCB, plate and case are really tied together. I would recommend you to use something already done to avoid to reinvent the wheel.

Switches:
The blues, while fun, are too light and much too loud. I love tactility, it gives me that tingly feeling like when Mr. Nelson from next door used to babysit me. 

I've been thinking about Cherry MX whites--heavier than blues/as heavy as greens, tactile, and supposedly softer. Can anyone confirm how much softer they are (in volume) to blues/greens?

Cherry MX tactile grey. Heavy, tactile, supposedly soft. Thoughts?

Cherry MX clears--they're as light as blues, but they get a LOT heavier supposedly after they actuate. An interesting idea.

Cherry MX clicky grey. These appear to be extremely heavy--is this just idiotic to use for a keyboard outside of just a spacebar? Also, if they're as noisy as the others, I won't waste my time.

It's personall preference - there is no right or wrong here.

Keycaps

To be honest, these aren't hard to find, but as someone who has never had PBT keycaps, should I make the jump? Or ABS doubleshots? Or what?

Be carefull, it's only true when building something close to the common standard.
In a nutshell: odd layouts are harder to get keycaps, most of the time you will have to produce or garbage then.

PBT, ABS, doubleshot, etc are personal preference too - you do need to give a try on each one to see what do you like.

IMHO

[Xarmydis]

Size:
I want a 60% board, ANSI layout. All there is to it!

GH60?

Programmability:
I'm looking for something that I can reprogram as my needs see fit. I've never dealt with hardware programming, but I am a programmer by trade, so I'm not too worried. Figuring out which teensy/controller to use is what's kind of scaring me.

I think I've read that most people use the Teensy++, but would there be any issue with me going for the 3.1? Cheaper and newer.

You could try the arduino micro - it is cheaper and you can find it on ebay for 6 or 7 bucks each. It is almost one teensy with a different bootloader (it does not matter for you I think)

Plate:
I want me a plate. I like the sturdiness and rigidity accompanied by a plate, though I understand it ~will~ restrict my access to the switches if I feel like replacing them. It'll require desoldering, etc. etc.

Yup, you do need to choose - a plate make your life harder if you need to change one diode or anything else below the plate (not the switches - normally they can be replaced easily). You just need to be sure that the components that are prone to fail are going to be in one easy access place otherwise you would have to desolder all your switches to fix them.

Can you clarify this? If I have a plate, how can I make them easily accessible?

Case:
I got no idea what to look for in terms of a case. Just gonna save time and leave it at that, if anyone has basic recommendations, I'd appreciate it.

The PCB, plate and case are really tied together. I would recommend you to use something already done to avoid to reinvent the wheel.

Switches:
The blues, while fun, are too light and much too loud. I love tactility, it gives me that tingly feeling like when Mr. Nelson from next door used to babysit me. 

I've been thinking about Cherry MX whites--heavier than blues/as heavy as greens, tactile, and supposedly softer. Can anyone confirm how much softer they are (in volume) to blues/greens?

Cherry MX tactile grey. Heavy, tactile, supposedly soft. Thoughts?

Cherry MX clears--they're as light as blues, but they get a LOT heavier supposedly after they actuate. An interesting idea.

Cherry MX clicky grey. These appear to be extremely heavy--is this just idiotic to use for a keyboard outside of just a spacebar? Also, if they're as noisy as the others, I won't waste my time.

It's personall preference - there is no right or wrong here.

Keycaps

To be honest, these aren't hard to find, but as someone who has never had PBT keycaps, should I make the jump? Or ABS doubleshots? Or what?

Be carefull, it's only true when building something close to the common standard.
In a nutshell: odd layouts are harder to get keycaps, most of the time you will have to produce or garbage then.

PBT, ABS, doubleshot, etc are personal preference too - you do need to give a try on each one to see what do you like.

IMHO

I'm curious, is there any advantage to the GH60 over the Face-U? You also say the PCB/plate/case should just be tied together to make life easier--what do you mean? Would it be bad to get a PCB from one place, a plate somewhere else, and a case somewhere else, or what? I'm not quite following.  I'm not going with an odd layout. It will be a strict 60% ANSI layout, nothing fancy, so I should be OK on that end I think.

Thank you so much for your help =D I appreciate y'alls time so much!

[Xarmydis]

In terms of a plate, I have a ducky shine 1, I'm happy with whatever kind of plate it is--does anyone know? Is this a metal plate, or hard plastic, or what?  This is all so intense ;___; hehe

[AKmalamute]

You also say the PCB/plate/case should just be tied together to make life easier--what do you mean? Would it be bad to get a PCB from one place, a plate somewhere else, and a case somewhere else, or what?

Haven't been following this thread too closely, but I can say that, while many people acquire those parts from diverse sources, that if you, especially you (being inexperienced in "what works together"), do such, the chances that there'll be an incongruity increase -- usually that just means a case mod, but I think it can mean filing away a section of plate or drilling new holes in your PCB and using jumper wire to get electrons to where they're expected.

The GH60 was designed from the ground up to be (nearly) compatible with every case out there, but the Poker is a commercial product, and the Pure a competing product ... so getting a Pure and shoving into a 3rd party case designed for a Poker -- I actually don't know since I never researched it, but it might not work -- or again, need you to drill a new hole for where the USB cord actually goes.

Spirit's FaceW also has interoperability held as a very highly valued goal, but I think there are a few cases out there that won't take his board; but you can go plateless, or get a standard plate, or an odd plate and there'll be switch holes under the plate cutouts.

But the GH60 and the FaceW are sort of 1st-of-a-kinds: imagined and built to be separate components intended to be mated to part sourced elsewhere. Many other 60% solutions have subtle but deliberate incompatibilities to force you to go back to the parent company for upgrades. That, I think, is all the previous person was saying.

[Xarmydis]

I'm back! Ok, I'm ordering the Face-U, and either an aluminum or acrylic plate, cherry stabilisers, LED's, keycaps, and switches.

Just a couple more questions before I get this show on the road!

Aluminum vs Acrylic plate--should I notice too much of a difference? Also, In terms of LED's, would there be an easy way to make them more accessible so that I don't need to desolder the whole damn thing to replace a dead LED?

Any thoughts on the Vortex PBT doubleshots? Think I wanna go that route as well.

Thanks for your help y'all, I sincerely appreciate it!

[Oobly]

To replace an LED you just desolder that one and solder the new one in.... Unless I've missed something with the design...