Help modding a RealForce 104U Silenced (variable)

[keyjay]

I picked up a couple RealForce 104U Silenced keyboards from EliteKeyboards. After a few weeks, it seems I may in fact end up being able to stay with them and forever say goodbye to my beloved Cherry Browns boards after years of using the Browns.

My only reason for looking at the Topre instead of Browns was for the quieter sound level. (I don't want business callers upset that I'm typing when they're talking, even though I'm typing what they're saying, instead of writing notes like I used to do.)

With the Browns, I had installed the largest o-rings that were practical. That's how I used them for years. The o-rings did two things that I really liked a lot: reduced the sound, and reduced the travel.

Now that I'm well along the way in acclimating to the "somewhat" quieter RealForce Silenced Topre boards, I'm anxious to go the next step if it's possible and practical to do so: I'd love to find out if it's possible to mod this board beyond what RealForce already did to "silence" it, in such a way that we:

A) Further reduce the sound. (Ideally on the spacebar, too.)

B) Reduce the travel.

On talking with Brian of EK and reading a bunch of posts on forums, the term "hypersphere" comes up.

I assume that pertains to a type of o-ring or something similar.

I would LOVE to get genuinely authoritative input on what is and is not possible along these lines, please.

And if it can be done, I'm very seriously in the market for a highly qualified individual in the US who I can send the boards to who can do it for me, for which I’m happy to pay an appropriate fee.

Thanks!

[nmur]

i've silenced 5 topre boards myself, both with dental bands and hypersphere rings

however i haven't actually used a factory silenced realforce

i do know that the stems of your board are slightly longer to accommodate the thickness of the silencing rings, in order to maintain the same travel as the regular boards

i don't know how thin the Topre rings are, but i can assume that they're similar to hyperspheres. while they do a great job of silencing while keeping the travel and tactility mostly intact, the result is not as quiet as dental bands, as they are thicker and softer.

with dental bands, you will get almost dead silent typing (even on the space bar), and reduced travel, but also reduced activation resisitance, as the reduced travel puts the topre domes in a partially collapsed state. whether this is good or not is a matter of preference.

dental bands are also like $3 for 100, while hyperspheres are like $60 for 100~ i think

i've installed dental bands on a variable weighted realforce board, and found that the reduced travel is more apparent on the lighter domes, which gave it an unappealing feel imo.

i forget which dental bands i ended up preferring (might be 5/16", have to check when i'm at home)

[beehatch]

Here is a size comparison of topre silencing rings (left) and 5/16' dental bands (right).

If you want to significantly reduce travel, then I recommend dental bands. I honestly think the silencing rings don't do **** for the sound (at least on the type-s). That's just me though.
I've used these on all the topre boards I've modded: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dental-Rubber-Bands-5-16-3-5oz-Orthodontic-Elastics-Braces-Teeth-Gap-/261768271661?hash=item3cf29ad72d

A thick lube solution is also a great idea. To reduce sound imo, plus it just feels better.

I personally have never modded/used a silenced realforce either. I dental/lubed a 55g realforce and that felt like garbage. I have a hhkb type-s, that I found to be rather loud for a silenced board. Even after installing lube and dental bands I don't find the feel to be as good compared to a reg HHKB; but the sound was reduced compared to stock.

[1391406]

A stock unsilenced RF is definitely louder than a stock silenced RF. No question. That said, I can't imagine anyone being able to hear someone else type on an RF Type-S while they're talking on the phone.

[nmur]

Show Image

Here is a size comparison of topre silencing rings (left) and 5/16' dental bands (right).

If you want to significantly reduce travel, then I recommend dental bands. I honestly think the silencing rings don't do **** for the sound (at least on the type-s). That's just me though.
I've used these on all the topre boards I've modded: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dental-Rubber-Bands-5-16-3-5oz-Orthodontic-Elastics-Braces-Teeth-Gap-/261768271661?hash=item3cf29ad72d

A thick lube solution is also a great idea. To reduce sound imo, plus it just feels better.

I personally have never modded/used a silenced realforce either. I dental/lubed a 55g realforce and that felt like garbage. I have a hhkb type-s, that I found to be rather loud for a silenced board. Even after installing lube and dental bands I don't find the feel to be as good compared to a reg HHKB; but the sound was reduced compared to stock.

that's a pretty phat dental band  :eek:

mine were listed as 5/16" 3.5oz, but mine seem a bit thinner:



from here

[keyjay]

I appreciate this input so far very much.

I'm not sure where to go from here, though.

I do know I like lighter weighting. I'm enjoying the variables on this RF 104 and this might be my favorite overall (I'll know after more experience using it). I very much liked the "45G" uniform Browns. I have tried heavier weightings and always returned them right away.

So, now what? Try having someone mod a RF 104 Silenced (variable) for me and also a 104 variable non-silenced, and see what I like best? With dental rings only, or perhaps also try it with hyperspheres? (Cost is not an issue.)

Just to clarify, when you each say Type-S, I'm assuming that just means "Silenced", is that correct?

BTW, those two pics of dental bands look about the same to me, FWIW.

i've installed dental bands on a variable weighted realforce board, and found that the reduced travel is more apparent on the lighter domes, which gave it an unappealing feel imo.

Can you please elaborate on what you found unappealing about it?

Show Image

I dental/lubed a 55g realforce and that felt like garbage. I have a hhkb type-s, that I found to be rather loud for a silenced board. Even after installing lube and dental bands I don't find the feel to be as good compared to a reg HHKB; but the sound was reduced compared to stock.

What did you not like, if you can please elaborate?

A stock unsilenced RF is definitely louder than a stock silenced RF. No question. That said, I can't imagine anyone being able to hear someone else type on an RF Type-S while they're talking on the phone.

Humph. That’s interesting. Other than the space bar, I can see how that might warrant my rethinking whether it’s worth it to get involved with modding this keyboard. Honestly, reducing the travel to more closely match what I had with the Browns that had o-rings added is more than half the reason I’m exploring this. I think it’ll make me faster and more accurate, and I have years of muscle-memory into it by now. But I’m open to your thoughts on this. Maybe I’ll fully adapt with more time and that’s that.

Given that reduced travel to more closely match what I had before is part of my goal, if an added bonus was further sound reduction, including the space bar, well, that would be well worth the money to me (assuming of course the feel with reduced travel with these Topres would be “better “ for me like it was with the Browns).

Thanks again!

[SpAmRaY]

Another very simple way to quiet down the keyboard would be to put some material between the keyboard and the desk.

fohat.digs sells rubber mats ( https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59308.0) that could be used or you could use a few layers of drawer liner or some other suitable material.

[keyjay]

Another very simple way to quiet down the keyboard would be to put some material between the keyboard and the desk.

fohat.digs sells rubber mats ( https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59308.0) that could be used or you could use a few layers of drawer liner or some other suitable material.

Thanks, but I'm way past that. ;-)

I tried a lot of materials and ended up spending big money for thin sheets of black silicon in rolls that I cut to size. Provides cushioning to reduce vibration/sound while still feeling solid, and inhibits sliding really well.

[SpAmRaY]

Another very simple way to quiet down the keyboard would be to put some material between the keyboard and the desk.

fohat.digs sells rubber mats ( https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59308.0) that could be used or you could use a few layers of drawer liner or some other suitable material.

Thanks, but I'm way past that. ;-)

I tried a lot of materials and ended up spending big money for thin sheets of black silicon in rolls that I cut to size. Provides cushioning to reduce vibration/sound while still feeling solid, and inhibits sliding really well.

That's awesome. Was it sorbothane that you used?

I think the problem you will find here is most people have only silenced regular topre and not so much tried to further silence, silenced topre.

The one thing I've never had was the silenced realforce from the factory to know how it compares to any of the below mentioned mods.

On the spacebar you might try and find a PBT spacebar as it might be a little quieter.

A couple things that have been successful with silencing stabilized keys is using double sided tape between the stabilizer housings and plate and also putting some sort of foam (ironed landind pad etc.) on the outside of the stabilizers housing and putting some thick lube in a few strategic places.

There is an ironed landing pad silencing modification by spiceBar there are some good ideas in his thread here https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49046.0

There is also a  multitude of silencing information around for the novatouch which might not directly apply to the realforce but some of it could possibly be adapted. A quick google search for novatouch silencing should get you where you need to go on that.

Personally the type-s hhkb wasn't all the much more silent than the stock hhkb with drawer liner under it. Also I had a previous dental band modded HHKB that to me just felt weird but did silence.

I also had an 87UB witch was lubed and had punched rubber rings (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40582.0) it was very quiet.

And I've got a 104UBDK with ironed landing pads and lube that is very quiet, I'll try and get it out to see how loud the spacebar is.

I sold it but I also had a lubed and ironed landing pad modded 55g 23U which was extremely quiet.

The lube I've used is either this http://techkeys.us/collections/accessories/products/krytox-switch-lurbricant or at one time there was an extra thick and topre specific one but I don't know if it is available anywhere currently. It's just a mix of krytox oil and grease to get the consistency you want.

[keyjay]

Another very simple way to quiet down the keyboard would be to put some material between the keyboard and the desk.

fohat.digs sells rubber mats ( https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59308.0) that could be used or you could use a few layers of drawer liner or some other suitable material.

Thanks, but I'm way past that. ;-)

I tried a lot of materials and ended up spending big money for thin sheets of black silicon in rolls that I cut to size. Provides cushioning to reduce vibration/sound while still feeling solid, and inhibits sliding really well.

That's awesome. Was it sorbothane that you used?

I think the problem you will find here is most people have only silenced regular topre and not so much tried to further silence, silenced topre.

The one thing I've never had was the silenced realforce from the factory to know how it compares to any of the below mentioned mods.

On the spacebar you might try and find a PBT spacebar as it might be a little quieter.

A couple things that have been successful with silencing stabilized keys is using double sided tape between the stabilizer housings and plate and also putting some sort of foam (ironed landind pad etc.) on the outside of the stabilizers housing and putting some thick lube in a few strategic places.

There is an ironed landing pad silencing modification by spiceBar there are some good ideas in his thread here https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49046.0

There is also a  multitude of silencing information around for the novatouch which might not directly apply to the realforce but some of it could possibly be adapted. A quick google search for novatouch silencing should get you where you need to go on that.

Personally the type-s hhkb wasn't all the much more silent than the stock hhkb with drawer liner under it. Also I had a previous dental band modded HHKB that to me just felt weird but did silence.

I also had an 87UB witch was lubed and had punched rubber rings (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40582.0) it was very quiet.

And I've got a 104UBDK with ironed landing pads and lube that is very quiet, I'll try and get it out to see how loud the spacebar is.

I sold it but I also had a lubed and ironed landing pad modded 55g 23U which was extremely quiet.

The lube I've used is either this http://techkeys.us/collections/accessories/products/krytox-switch-lurbricant or at one time there was an extra thick and topre specific one but I don't know if it is available anywhere currently. It's just a mix of krytox oil and grease to get the consistency you want.

Thank you for the help!

You're getting a little beyond my pay grade here (meaning my comprehension level or my ability to make time to do my own experimenting and research), but I'll try to keep up.

The silicon sheet is, as far as I know, just regular silicone sheet. No bad odor. Ideal texture. Thin. Black. (It’s been a while but I can look up where I got it and get the detailed specs if you’re curious. Just let me know.)

As to the mods I’m asking about…

There seems to be a bit of a consistent opinion that the dental rings do a good job of silencing but feel weird.

I'm interested in the ironed landing pads, and the fact that you can pull out a board you have that’s the same as mine (or is it? I can’t tell from the model number you provided).

You didn’t comment on reduced travel.

I really can’t get into in-depth research or experimenting (no time for it: married – to the business). I’m after the best advice on how to proceed, and then finding an expert to do that for me.

Or, maybe I can hire someone from here to even do the gathering-of-advice step for me? (That would be great.)

I’m just after reduced travel and quieter sound – and I guess now I have to add “without losing the crisp feel and responsiveness that makes Topre so good for fast and accurate typing.”

And I'm willing to buy new non-silenced RealForce 104 variable keyboards to work with if that's better for modding to get the results I'm after. My challenges are lack of time and lack of expertise in this area.

Thanks again!

[1391406]

Did your Realforce 104U Silent come with PBT spacebars? If not, you can find some here.

[keyjay]

Did your Realforce 104U Silent come with PBT spacebars? If not, you can find some here.

It did not, and thank you! I'm going to follow through on this link and get a couple.

[keyjay]

A stock unsilenced RF is definitely louder than a stock silenced RF. No question. That said, I can't imagine anyone being able to hear someone else type on an RF Type-S while they're talking on the phone.

It was pointed out to me that with a top-notch Bluetooth headset (which is what I use -- Plantronics Voyager Legend) and the new HD Voice systems that cell phones are using now, it may be a lot easier to hear typing.

I realize all of those technological components are also supposed to help reduce background noise, but the "boom" on the headset is facing right at the keyboard, which is the one direction its mics and software don't block.

I've been told people can hear me typing, but that to "some" it could just as well be some kind of scratching or other unspecified noise in the background. (Of course, this darned spacebar is sometimes darned loud.)

[1391406]

I realize all of those technological components are also supposed to help reduce background noise, but the "boom" on the headset is facing right at the keyboard, which is the one direction its mics and software don't block.

It would be very odd if this were true because sound (especially in noisy environments) is often reflected off of multiple surfaces, including your desk and the ground. This is why music studios apply acoustic treatment in their mixing rooms(to prevent reflections).

[keyjay]

I realize all of those technological components are also supposed to help reduce background noise, but the "boom" on the headset is facing right at the keyboard, which is the one direction its mics and software don't block.

It would be very odd if this were true because sound (especially in noisy environments) is often reflected off of multiple surfaces, including your desk and the ground. This is why music studios apply acoustic treatment in their mixing rooms(to prevent reflections).

Actually, there are three mics in the Plantronics Voyager Legend Bluetooth headset. One near the mouth, one in the middle, and one at the base near the ear. If sound hits them in that same order, it assumes it's coming from the mouth and it goes through. Otherwise, it's cancelled out. It actually works remarkably well. The problem is that the keyboard sounds come from that same direction, so they're not being filtered out the same way.

I have no idea about HD Voice. I've read that it's supposed to both enhance voice quality and help with reducing background noise, but I've also read that it carries a wider range of data (aka Wideband), which one would think only helps to transmit background noise. I couldn't say.

All I care about is having a great typing tool at my fingertips all day, that's preferably almost as good as the amazing Browns with o-rings experience I had for the past few years and got remarkably good at typing with, and that's as quiet as possible so as to avoid even the chance of subtle issues with the people I have on the phone.

I'm partly there with the RealForce 104U Silenced. Not quite, though, which is why I'm here. I'm more interested in improving the typing experience, and my aptitude with it, and to my mind right now a bit of reduction in key travel, to more closely match what I had with the Browns with o-rings, seems like the way to improve things over where I am now -- and hopefully that solution helps to reduce sound as well, which I'd also, secondarily, like to achieve compared to where I am now.

[1391406]

If sound hits them in that same order, it assumes it's coming from the mouth and it goes through. Otherwise, it's cancelled out.

I'd be curious to know where you read that.

I'm more interested in improving the typing experience, and my aptitude with it, and to my mind right now a bit of reduction in key travel, to more closely match what I had with the Browns with o-rings, seems like the way to improve things over where I am now -- and hopefully that solution helps to reduce sound as well, which I'd also, secondarily, like to achieve compared to where I am now.

Do you know the size of the o-rings used in your board with Browns?

[keyjay]

If sound hits them in that same order, it assumes it's coming from the mouth and it goes through. Otherwise, it's cancelled out.

I'd be curious to know where you read that.

I'm more interested in improving the typing experience, and my aptitude with it, and to my mind right now a bit of reduction in key travel, to more closely match what I had with the Browns with o-rings, seems like the way to improve things over where I am now -- and hopefully that solution helps to reduce sound as well, which I'd also, secondarily, like to achieve compared to where I am now.

Do you know the size of the o-rings used in your board with Browns?

3 mics: Go to http://www.plantronics.com/us/product/voyager-legend and scroll down to "Features" > "Best noise & wind canceling" and click on it. (Plus, well, tech support has explained it to me.)

O-rings: Go to http://www.oringsusa.com/html/size_chart.html. My notes say I got "-008 S40" but I don't see S40 on their site now and I don't recall what it meant (I'm pretty sure S was for Silicone and 40 is the hardness rating; I'm sure one can call them and ask). The size chart, nonetheless, says it's "1/16" in thickness (and so do my notes) -- or, well, ".070 inches give or take .003 inches."

I really loved the feel of the Browns with those o-rings and would do anything to still be using that keyboard but with near silent typing (and now that I have the Topre silenced variable, which is lighter weighting than the Browns, I'd ideally like a bit lighter weighting than the Browns, if I had my druthers -- since on occasion my hands would feel a bit tired typing on the Browns after a long time of typing when I was tired).

[1391406]

If sound hits them in that same order, it assumes it's coming from the mouth and it goes through. Otherwise, it's cancelled out.

I'd be curious to know where you read that.

3 mics: Go to http://www.plantronics.com/us/product/voyager-legend and scroll down to "Features" > "Best noise & wind canceling" and click on it. (Plus, well, tech support has explained it to me.)

The reason I ask is because when I spoke with the techs at Plantronics, I was told that the noise cancellation technology in that specific headset differentiates between your voice and ambient noise based on how loud the sound is, not the direction it's coming from or in what order it hits the mics. Since your mouth is closest to the mic, it gets transmitted. However, if the ambient noise reaches a certain threshold, it's transmitted as well.

My notes say I got "-008 S40" but I don't see S40 on their site now and I don't recall what it meant (I'm pretty sure S was for Silicone and 40 is the hardness rating; I'm sure one can call them and ask). The size chart, nonetheless, says it's "1/16" in thickness (and so do my notes) -- or, well, ".070 inches give or take .003 inches."

Since the key travel between unmodded Browns / Topre is the same(4mm), you simply need Topre silencing rings that are as close to the same thickness (1.7mm / .070") as the o-rings in your board with Browns. Hypersphere's silencing rings are approximately .5mm thick so you'd need to stack them, but considering how expensive they are ... it seems the less expensive and more practical route, at least to start, would be the dental bands. I can't seem to find any information confirming the thickness of the dental bands, as they come in multiple thicknesses that are commonly referenced using vague weighting terminology(light, medium, heavy, x-heavy, etc.), but if it were me, I'd look for 3/16" diameter in both a light and medium gauge to start. Since they're pretty inexpensive, I'd order both just to be on the safe side and see which one is closest.

[keyjay]

If sound hits them in that same order, it assumes it's coming from the mouth and it goes through. Otherwise, it's cancelled out.

I'd be curious to know where you read that.

3 mics: Go to http://www.plantronics.com/us/product/voyager-legend and scroll down to "Features" > "Best noise & wind canceling" and click on it. (Plus, well, tech support has explained it to me.)

The reason I ask is because when I spoke with the techs at Plantronics, I was told that the noise cancellation technology in that specific headset differentiates between your voice and ambient noise based on how loud the sound is, not the direction it's coming from or in what order it hits the mics. Since your mouth is closest to the mic, it gets transmitted. However, if the ambient noise reaches a certain threshold, it's transmitted as well.

My notes say I got "-008 S40" but I don't see S40 on their site now and I don't recall what it meant (I'm pretty sure S was for Silicone and 40 is the hardness rating; I'm sure one can call them and ask). The size chart, nonetheless, says it's "1/16" in thickness (and so do my notes) -- or, well, ".070 inches give or take .003 inches."

Since the key travel between unmodded Browns / Topre is the same(4mm), you simply need Topre silencing rings that are as close to the same thickness (1.7mm / .070") as the o-rings in your board with Browns. Hypersphere's silencing rings are approximately .5mm thick so you'd need to stack them, but considering how expensive they are ... it seems the less expensive and more practical route, at least to start, would be the dental bands. I can't seem to find any information confirming the thickness of the dental bands, as they come in multiple thicknesses that are commonly referenced using vague weighting terminology(light, medium, heavy, x-heavy, etc.), but if it were me, I'd look for 3/16" diameter in both a light and medium gauge to start. Since they're pretty inexpensive, I'd order both just to be on the safe side and see which one is closest.

I wonder if you had a less knowledgeable tech at Plantronics, or maybe I did. I think I recall getting that description I related from more than one source. As it is, it works pretty good. (Actually, I can say from experience it seems the direction matters and not the volume. I was standing in front of a high-powered blender for making smoothies that's incredibly loud. I was on a call with someone with the Voyager Legend. I turned on the blender, turned my head so it was to my right side with the headset on my right ear, so the blender was to the "side" of the headset, and started yelling to the person on the phone that I apologize for the incredibly loud noise from the blender in the background and telling them it will be done in about twenty seconds. After the blender was off, they said, "What blender? I could hear you fine and barely noticed anything in the background." It was pretty impressive to say the least.)

As to my mod project, I don't have the luxury of playing with various options myself for the modding of the keyboard. I need to find someone to do it for me, and focus on what seems to be the most logical approach to start. I have to bite the bullet on cost and pay whatever it takes since my time will cost me far more than, say, triple-stacking hyperspheres would (and paying someone). Too many people here already said the dental bands created a "weird" feel for me to want to jump to them first, especially since production and specs seems a bit less tight than what I suppose is the case with hypersphreres.

I'm not clear on why nobody is suggesting o-rings on the Topres like I used on the Browns but obviously there's a reason they're not, and I don't really need to know the reason. (That link I provided for o-rings seems to be the best resource on planet Earth for any possible type of o-ring once would ever want, but if it's not suitable for my goal here, so be it.)

So, it seems we're making progress. I really appreciate the help. A stack of hypersphere's can closely match the travel reduction I had with the Browns? The question is whether you're talking about doing that with a standard RealForce 104U variable or with a "Silenced" version of it, since my understanding is they have different lengths of stems. Which did you have in mind in comparing those distances?

And would that much travel reduction put me too close to the activation point, or would it still be okay?

I believe it was indicated in this thread that dental bands reduced sound better than hyperspheres, and I can't tell whether hyperspheres reduce the sound more than the "silencing" rings that RealForce "silenced" keyboards already have. Any idea? (I would think a stack of hypersphere's would do more to reduce sound than one layer would, wouldn't you agree?)

So, where would you go from here if you were me?

(These questions are directed to 1391406 and anyone else who might be able to please help.)

Thanks so much!

[1391406]

I wonder if you had a less knowledgeable tech at Plantronics, or maybe I did. I think I recall getting that description I related from more than one source. As it is, it works pretty good. (Actually, I can say from experience it seems the direction matters and not the volume. I was standing in front of a high-powered blender for making smoothies that's incredibly loud. I was on a call with someone with the Voyager Legend. I turned on the blender, turned my head so it was to my right side with the headset on my right ear, so the blender was to the "side" of the headset, and started yelling to the person on the phone that I apologize for the incredibly loud noise from the blender in the background and telling them it will be done in about twenty seconds. After the blender was off, they said, "What blender? I could hear you fine and barely noticed anything in the background." It was pretty impressive to say the least.)

Both techs I spoke with relayed the same information independently, but in my experience with support in general it wouldn't be the first time I've received conflicting information.

I'm not clear on why nobody is suggesting o-rings on the Topres like I used on the Browns but obviously there's a reason they're not

Assuming they're the same diameter as dental bands(pretty sure they aren't), I've no idea why they wouldn't work. I believe the Topre barrel is larger in diameter than the stem on MX Browns.

So, it seems we're making progress. I really appreciate the help. A stack of hypersphere's can closely match the travel reduction I had with the Browns? The question is whether you're talking about doing that with a standard RealForce 104U variable or with a "Silenced" version of it, since my understanding is they have different lengths of stems. Which did you have in mind in comparing those distances?

The barrel on the silent version is longer to accommodate the reduced travel incurred by the stock silencing rings. The result is that both versions have the same travel distance.

I believe it was indicated in this thread that dental bands reduced sound better than hyperspheres, and I can't tell whether hyperspheres reduce the sound more than the "silencing" rings that RealForce "silenced" keyboards already have. Any idea?

I don't know, and I'm not familiar with anyone who's tried to mod a Type-S to be quieter. Based on appearances though, my hunch is that the differences between Hypersphere's silencing rings and the Type-S are likely negligible to the point of irrelevancy, but without having tried Hypersphere's rings, I'm just guessing.

(I would think a stack of hypersphere's would do more to reduce sound than one layer would, wouldn't you agree?)

It's possible, though I wouldn't be surprised if the before and after results were indistinguishable.

So, where would you go from here if you were me?

If it were me, the first thing I'd probably do is try to use one of the o-rings from your Browns on a Topre barrel. This is something you can try yourself. You only need to remove a single key cap from both boards and then remove the o-ring from the Brown and see if it'll fit around the exposed barrel of the 104U. If it fits, you know it's possible to mod the 104U with them. Nevertheless, you'd still need to have the 104U disassembled to mod it.

Failing that, and assuming money were no object, I'd buy three sets of Hypersphere's rings and triple stack them. This would reduce the key travel by 1.5mm, which is approximately a .2mm difference from the o-rings on your board with MX Browns.

[keyjay]

Both techs I spoke with relayed the same information independently, but in my experience with support in general it wouldn't be the first time I've received conflicting information.

For kicks, I emailed Plantronics tech support today asking which was correct -- what you were told or what I was told. The response was vague, so I pressed for escalation and they insisted they checked with the “Senior Product Developers and Engineers” twice (after I pressed the second time), and they said all they’re allowed to say in response is: “The Voyager Legend boom has 3 built-in microphones that work together to optimize voice-audio using a proprietary algorithm,” and “We can only inform that the 3 microphones work together to optimize the sound of the voice using our proprietary algorithm.”

Oh, well. It keeps things more fun for us when it’s a mystery, I guess. (I’m sure sequence plays a part.)

If it were me, the first thing I'd probably do is try to use one of the o-rings from your Browns on a Topre barrel. This is something you can try yourself. You only need to remove a single key cap from both boards and then remove the o-ring from the Brown and see if it'll fit around the exposed barrel of the 104U. If it fits, you know it's possible to mod the 104U with them. Nevertheless, you'd still need to have the 104U disassembled to mod it.

Failing that, and assuming money were no object, I'd buy three sets of Hypersphere's rings and triple stack them. This would reduce the key travel by 1.5mm, which is approximately a .2mm difference from the o-rings on your board with MX Browns.

I’m quite sure just from the visual images in this thread that the o-rings I used on the Browns will have too small of a diameter to fit on the Topre stems. The diameter of those o-rings I used on the Browns is 0.176 inch ± 0.005 inch. Maybe someone can measure the Topre stems for us?

Actually, I think the ideal thing to do would be to determine the exact desired dimensions depending on whether we’re modding a stock or silenced RealForce 104U, and then get the closest thing to that size in the same basic silicone o-rings from O-Rings, Inc. http://www.oringsusa.com/index.html that I got for the Browns. I’m curious why this resource hasn’t been tapped for this before. I found them a few years ago on the geekhack forums as the source for the most preferred solution for other keyboards, and they sure did the job for me on the Browns. Ideal feel for me (of course, very different mechanics between the Browns and Topres, I understand), very tight specs and consistency, and affordable by the hundred.

I have no idea how they’d do for sound dampening, though, of course.

If I can get help with the dimensions needed, I’ll buy the o-rings  and, well, I guess then we have to send a keyboard and the o-rings to whowever I can enlist/hire to do the work. (I’m not about to attempt to disassemble a RealForce keyboard and reassemble it. I don’t have the time to become competent at it.)

I’ll have to buy a keyboard for this, so we have to decide if it should be a stock or a silenced with the longer stems. Part of the criteria should be which is more suitable, and part of the criteria should be which is more readily available now and in the foreseeable future. (I use white. I couldn’t read black.)

Again, can you do this for me? Or, who can, please? I’m willing to pay someone who I can trust with it.

[1391406]

I’m quite sure just from the visual images in this thread that the o-rings I used on the Browns will have too small of a diameter to fit on the Topre stems. The diameter of those o-rings I used on the Browns is 0.176 inch ± 0.005 inch. Maybe someone can measure the Topre stems for us?

Based on the size of the dental bands, I believe it should be 3/16" inner diameter.

I’ll have to buy a keyboard for this, so we have to decide if it should be a stock or a silenced with the longer stems. Part of the criteria should be which is more suitable, and part of the criteria should be which is more readily available now and in the foreseeable future. (I use white. I couldn’t read black.)

I'd want the 104U Silent. Massdrop is currently selling them with 1 day left. Again, the sliders in the 104U Silent are longer, but the travel distance between the 104U Silent and stock unsilenced is exactly the same. They lengthened the sliders on the 104U Silent to compensate for the slight loss incurred after adding the silencing rings.

Again, can you do this for me? Or, who can, please? I’m willing to pay someone who I can trust with it.

I've already spent quite a bit of time modding my own Topre boards and don't have any interest in working on another one, nor would I have the time to devote to it.

[keyjay]

Based on the size of the dental bands, I believe it should be 3/16" inner diameter.

Oh, cool. That’s essentially the same as the o-rings I used with my Browns.

I've already spent quite a bit of time modding my own Topre boards and don't have any interest in working on another one, nor would I have the time to devote to it.

So, anyone else? Any recommendations for forum members I might want to reach out to who may not have noticed this thread? Surely there must be a number of highly qualified people who would be happy to take it on for pay. Please make some recommendations for me if you can, either here or via PM. I’d be very grateful.

Thanks again!

[keyjay]

I'd want the 104U Silent. Massdrop is currently selling them with 1 day left. Again, the sliders in the 104U Silent are longer, but the travel distance between the 104U Silent and stock unsilenced is exactly the same. They lengthened the sliders on the 104U Silent to compensate for the slight loss incurred after adding the silencing rings.

Are you suggesting that if I use the silenced RealForce 104U I’d probably want to leave their silencing ring in it and “add” my o-ring to it?

[1391406]

I'd want the 104U Silent. Massdrop is currently selling them with 1 day left. Again, the sliders in the 104U Silent are longer, but the travel distance between the 104U Silent and stock unsilenced is exactly the same. They lengthened the sliders on the 104U Silent to compensate for the slight loss incurred after adding the silencing rings.

Are you suggesting that if I use the silenced RealForce 104U I’d probably want to leave their silencing ring in it and “add” my o-ring to it?

Yes, precisely.